The $50 billion bipartisan AIDS boondoggle
The Left is cheering Senate reauthorization of the bipartisan global AIDS bill. Supported by President Bush and the Republicans, it triples spending on HIV/AIDS to $48 billion over five years–with $18 billion more in spending than Bush had requested.
Only 16 Senators voted against the massive spending package that comes in the midst of the stimulus-palooza frenzy and the continued dysfunctional state of federal entitlement programs. Here’s the roll call vote:
Is this the right time to be heaping the world’s AIDS health care bill on American taxpayers? The White House and the Democrat leadership apparently think so.
“The US Senate has given a major boost to a program to combat AIDS and malaria around the world, voting to triple funding for a cause championed by President George W. Bush.
The Senate on Wednesday voted 80 to 16 to authorize $48 billion over the next five years - $18 billion dollars more than Bush had requested - for the program, which also includes funds to battle tuberculosis. ‘This bill will expand American leadership on global health and foster hope around the world. …’ said Paul Zeitz, Executive director of the Global AIDS Alliance. …” [Agence France Presse/Factiva]
AP adds that the statement “…said that when the program was launched in 2003, about 50,000 people in sub-Saharan Africa were receiving anti-retroviral treatment for HIV/AIDS. Today, the program supports lifesaving anti-retroviral treatment for more than 1.7 million people around the world, he said. It also has supported treatment and prevention programs that have helped HIV-positive women give birth to nearly 200,000 infants who are HIV-free. …
The bill passed by the House in April approved $50 billion, including $5 billion for malaria, $4 billion for tuberculosis and $41 billion for AIDS. Of the AIDS money, a proportion — $2 billion next year — would go to the international Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria. Actual spending levels still have to be approved in annual appropriations bills.
Earlier Wednesday, the Senate, acceding to arguments that Congress must also address humanitarian issues closer to home, agreed to set aside $2 billion of the $50 billion for American Indian water, health and law enforcement projects. …” [The Associated Press/Factiva]
Also in the bill: a provision lifting the long-time HIV/AIDS travel ban.
Compassion comes at a steep cost. Sen. Jeff Sessions cites Congressional Budget Office estimates that the new AIDS/HIV-infected immigrants entering after the travel ban is lifted could cost the government more than $80 million over a 10-year period. And that’s just the start.
“Most people just don’t want to talk about that.”
Nope. Because you’ll risk getting called a bigot or homophobe for daring to bring it up.
***
Hans Bader at Openmarket.org shakes his head at warped priorities (make sure to click through to the post for lots of links):
U.S. immigration law is full of contradictions. On the one hand, U.S. immigration laws keep out skilled immigrants who would help our economy, by sharply limiting the number of H-1B visas, and making legal immigration a very difficult and lengthy process. (Economists overwhelmingly support allowing more skilled immigrants to come to the U.S.)
Yet, simultaneously, Congress has just voted to repeal a ban on AIDS-infected people becoming permanent residents of the U.S., even though the Congressional Budget Office says doing so will cost taxpayers many millions of dollars. Health care costs associated with AIDS often exceed $100,000 per person per year. Permanent residents, like citizens, can be eligible for Medicaid, as well as the many taxpayer-subsidized health-care programs aimed specifically at people with AIDS. (We wrote earlier about the counterproductive effects of some taxpayer-funded AIDS programs overseas).
Meanwhile, an amnesty for illegal aliens is likely in the next Congress, which will have a bigger liberal majority than the current one.
Crikey.
***
Update: Sen. Jon Kyl’s statement…
“I supported PEPFAR when it was authorized five years ago, and because of its success, I would have voted to extend the original funding and policy for another five years. I could have even considered doubling the original authorization to $30 billion as the President requested, but the level of funding provided in this bill was far too excessive for me to support.
“The bill also made a number of bad changes to existing PEPFAR policy, like removing the requirement that at least 55 percent of the money actually goes to the treatment of AIDS patients rather than to corrupt governments.
“The dramatic increase in funding will also come at a time when Americans are feeling pain at the gas pump, in the housing market, and at the grocery store. Is this really the time to ask Americans to spend $48 billion more on foreign aid? Congress must be mindful of its obligations to American citizens before it funds multi-billion dollar programs abroad.
“For the United States to have the resources to continue funding its responsibilities to its citizens and to help others around the globe, we need a strong economy that creates wealth. I can think of a lot of other things we could do with part of the $48 billion to improve our economy so that we would be better able to help others in the future.”
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Meanwhile- I have to finish my loan application for gas for my car… Thanks Martinez and Nelson for tackling this bill with such vigor and enthusiasm!!!
I’m tired of paying my government money that is used, in turn, to slowly fund the destruction of my country.
My solution: stop having un-protected sex with strangers. Cost: zero Effort: probably more than most people are willing to expend.
What a crock the war on AIDS is! This disease has been 100% preventable for 20 years and we are spending billions to:
1- Educate idiots
2- Keep the idiots alive after they ignore all warnings, so that they can spread the disease to other idiots.
Well if we didn’t have enough problems with the cost of health care, illegals to name one, now we will have to pay for hiv people coming into our country.
L
And here we were, with our silly concerns about higher food and energy costs.
All the while, our government was colluding to bill us $50 billion additional for people with AIDS overseas, and then dropping bans to allow infected people to travel here amongst us and bill us an additional $80 million over the next 10 years?
I’m predicting Congressional and Presidential approval ratings will be dropping even further.
I see that Hatch (UT) and Bennett(UT) voted in favor. ARrrrg!
Well, we got rid of RINO Chris Cannon in favor of conservative Jason Chavetz. Bennett is next to go. The campaign to replace him next has begun!
What about cancer, a real disease, instead of a self-inflicted plague tied to anal sex? Enough is enough.
So much money with so little accountability. Insane!
The drug companies will be dancing in the streets tonight!
The destruction of this country is their plan.
Q: When is communist China going to start funding the destruction of their country?
A: Their not.
We are doomed to become a third world nation. We will be easier to control once they get everyone dependent on the government. Things are going to have to change….soon…before we run out of time to fix the situation. The USA Doomsday clock is at 2 minutes to midnight.
Why does the American taxpayer have to be the leader in trying to keep people that hate us healthy? Isn’t that counter productive? Can someone tell me how much money the oil rich arabs have put into treatment and prevention programs that have helped HIV-positive women give birth to nearly 200,000 infants who are HIV-free. ?
If you listen to the liberals, we are the most hated country in the world. Why do we keep giving them money, do we think that will make them like us?
How ’bout we put $50 billion into water, health and law enforcement (maybe secure the border)here at home and tell the rest of the world to take it up with Abdul, Raul, Kim, Hugo, Vlad, Mao (or whomever is in charge of China now days) and all their other “friends”.
I am really tired of seeing my money go to backwater, sh@$hole countries so their esteemed leadership can get rich. I don’t mind helping the needy, but charity begins at home, and I’m sick of seeing people that are taking my hard earned dollars chanting Death to America on the nightly news.
Let them go to people they like for free money.
AIDS/HIV-infected immigrants was Kerry’s idea.
don’t know what to say…veto won’t help on this one.
So glad to see my wacko senators in the spend, spend, spend crowd. Do they think this money breeds in the dark? Would we all like to spend as if we had a continuous flow of cash. The NYT just had an article about a genetic variation, which protected sub-sahara Africa from malaria and may cause individuals to be more vulnerable to HIV infection. There’s not enough money in to world to solve this without behavior modification in high risk countries.
How can so many otherwise intelligent people be soooooo stupid? At least my Senators (Texas) voted against this travesty. Let’s see. We can’t even pay the bills we have so we continue to run an enormous national debt, which one day will be called due. Yet, they take the national credit card and charge more up so they can feeeeeel gooooood about themselves. Who are they trying to impress anyway? These feel good policies will break the treasury. And BTW, bush has become the band leader in the giveaways. Everytime he leaves the country, he ends up pledging MORE and MORE $ to help some 3rd world country. He must be trying to buy his legacy now. It is easy to give away someone else’s money. For all the bleeding hearts out there, I have nothing against helping when we can. But how is it helping us to spend $ we don’t have?
This fits in perfectly with something other posters here have posted by the Scottish professor of the 18th century who said “democracy can not stand as a permanent form of government….”. Maddening that our pols ar edoing everything in their power to prove his theory correct.
worth taking a look at…
http://aidsmyth.addr.com/mythtv/aidsmythbuster_on.htm
From another thread and from another comment…It works GREAT for this:
MSM/HIV
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/resources/factsheets/msm.htm
Look, sorry, but I for one cannot afford to pay for this. The elitist politicians are completely clueless as to how hard many Americans are struggling from paycheck to paycheck as it is - and now these idiots want to lump us with MORE liabilities, and no security for the future whatsoever.
Oh, and the part about allowing HIV infected immigrants into the country, priceless. Each and every one of them will be a complete drain on the taxpayer. WE will spend $M’s each year on each of these infected immigrants. Sigh. I guess they haven’t allowed enough deadly and exotic diseases into the country via their open border policies. Now we need to import it knowingly.
I believe that these amounts are more than offset in the bill by a small increase in visa fees. So Americans won’t be paying any of the additional amount.
PS: Our “aristocracy” spends-spends-spends….
YOUR $$$$$$ (taxes) and MY $$$$$$$
It’s getting really OLD…
That is the most racist bigoted thing I’ve ever seen Christian Soldier. Posting a link to facts…unbelievable.
Here it is weary citizen.. and a great piece of wisdom..
A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.
Yes. They pay an extra dollar in visa fee’s to get 100k in medical cost. I see that LGM must have been your math teacher.
In a speech Tuesday, B. Hussein said this:
I know development assistance is not the most popular program, but as President, I will make the case to the American people that it can be our best investment in increasing the common security of the entire world. That was true with the Marshall Plan, and that must be true today. That’s why I’ll double our foreign assistance to $50 billion by 2012, and use it to support a stable future in failing states, and sustainable growth in Africa; to halve global poverty and to roll back disease. To send once more a message to those yearning faces beyond our shores that says, “You matter to us. Your future is our future. And our moment is now.”
Yep…hold onto your wallets.
Your future is our future. And our moment is now.
Yup, your future is utter destitution. so is ours.
Thanks Obama. Thanks a lot.
I made no statement as to the accuracy of the numbers or to their fairness. I simply made the point that it is paid for by non-Americans.
I see that you must never have had a reading comprehension teacher.
Chap…that is crap! These HIV infected immigrants will simply avoid paying any fees by asking for asylum…proclaiming that they are persecuted in their homelands because they have AIDS. Let us not forget all the other entitlements their poor AIDS infected butts are going to get once they get here…..housing…food stamps…etc. etc. etc. $80 million times ten over the next 10 years at least.
Thanks nyc. It is so simple and logical. I say we are somehwere around the complacency to apathy stage (if not further). We certainly have reached the point where the voters have discovered they could vote themselves a generous portion of the treasury.
Well, it’s really only the next step. We seem to have no problem with tuberculosis creeping in from the southern border, so HIV/AIDS from Africa shouldnt be left out.
this is getting out of hand, cancer and other natural diseases need to take frontrow…
Well, as between the CBO and your wild speculations that are backed up by nothing….I’m gonna go with the CBO.
you said “I believe that these amounts are more than offset in the bill by a small increase in visa fees. So Americans won’t be paying any of the additional amount.” So take your reading comprehension and stick it in your crack pipe!
Cheers Weary Citizen. Personally I believe we’re already at the apathy stage (generally speaking) - made clear by our upcoming choices for POTUS. I mean seriously, if people cared, do you think either of those buffoons would be anywhere near presidential candidacy? Of course not. Obama certainly wants to push us well into the dependence stage, and with the shamnesty, that’s exactly where we’ll be heading, and by the time the masses start to wake up to what is actually happening, it will be too late. Since both McCain and Obama are pro-shamnesty, it’s a foregone conclusion, imho. Once the state has you by the short and curlies (dependence), which will only take a few years, particularly when the SS funds dry up, then bondage is only a short step away.
On July 17th, 2008 at 4:13 pm, sambo said:
I see that LGM must have been your math teacher.
BWA HA HA HHAAAA!!!
Sambo….
Huh? What you said makes absolutely zero sense.
I know exactly what I said. I said (in expanded form here just for you) that at least according to the CBO, the additional costs associated with allowing HIV positive visitors and immigrants is more than offset by greater visa fees paid by foreigners visiting us. You may oppose this policy change on other grounds. You may think it unfair that foreigners will have to foot the bill for more HIV medical costs in the US, but what you cannot say, as many are on this board, that the US citizens are footing the additional $80 mill price tag.
I would think you fiscal conservatives would cheer some actual pay-go.
Phewwww! Now I can focus on the $50 billion that I will be paying for.
Wouldn’t this $50 billion be better spent on our children, or on our environment? I remember AlGore telling us that we might all be dead in 10 years from global warming, not HIV/AIDS.
What is the benefit of allowing HIV and AIDS infected people to travel here amongst us anyway?
This makes no sense!
Chappie, the $80m tag is only the downpayment on a very very very high-risk mortgage. What, you think these people will suddenly be cured the moment they walk into the US? Certainly not. Guess who will be paying ongoing treatment then? And don’t forget, they will not be contributing anything to the economy either once they become too sick. Saying there’s no cost to the taxpayer is either complete ignorance or your just being obtuse for the sake of it.
you’re
The additional revenue is tied to the policy change. It doesn’t exist without it, so “what else we could do with it” is a non-issue.
Well, to get with the rest of the civilized world, for one. The only countries that currently ban HIV positive visitors are:Iraq, China, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Sudan, Qatar, Brunei, Oman, Moldova, Russia, Armenia, and South Korea.
Aren’t people on here always saying we should be judged by the company we keep?
Once again, McCain and Obama skip out.
Pathetic.
Here is were our foreign aid should go…for asylum for people in Brazil.
First, I am using the CBO’s numbers, which are at least based on some actual study. They say $80 million.
Second, at least with legal immigration, we don’t exactly let rabble in do we? I am sure others know better than I but don’t you have to have some sort of useful skill and be employed to (legally) immigrate? So I don’t know why everyone assumes they are just going to come over here and set up their cardboard box and newspaper blanket on the first street corner.
Lastly, are other carriers of chronic illness treated the same way vis a vis our immigration and visitation policy?
Hans Bader at OpenMarket.org writes:
“Economists overwhelmingly support allowing more skilled immigrants to come to the U.S.”
Maybe we should invite a hundred thousand skilled foreign economists to come to the U.S.?
Hans, would U.S. economists overwhelmingly support that idea, too?
Brilliant! LMAO.
Using the CBO’s fuzzy math? yeah…that works. Fine job they have done so far huh?
Many thanks. I’ll remember to use that logical answer when libs ask me why we spend what we spend on Iraq, or our military budget, or any other budgets that they oppose.
Ok. I was thinking more along the lines that the cost/benefit of allowing foreigners with transferable and deadly infections, like HIV/AIDS, to travel amongst us was slightly skewed against them from a public health perspective.
I am certain that this policy has been quite harmful inside US urban communities over the past 20 years. I also remember reading that non-enforcement of our southern border has been resulting in a revisit of T.B. and other contagious diseases that haven’t been a US public health issue for many decades. But here’s hoping for a different result this time!
If you have specific information to impeach those numbers or have other figures, I would be ahppy to hear them.
But Sessions office (nor MM, who is using them as the basis for her argument) didn’t cite any issue with them.
McCain and Obama were the original sponsors of the bill and neither one voted.
Those in Congress obviously think they are playing with Monopoly money.
I’ve had one, very small raise in 3 years and that was for a promotion. And I have a good job in IT. My husband used to get a lot of overtime as a truck driver, now he doesn’t get any. I’m already back to cutting coupons and crossing my fingers that we make it week to week. My car is my grandmother’s ‘93 Oldsmobile, our other car is a 2000 Jeep. Both with tons of miles. And not fuel efficient either.
And my “rebate” just went to pay about 2/3 of my tax bill. No stimulous shopping for us!
And Excel Energy just told everyone that natural gas bills for heating this winter will be double from last winter. Yippee!
There are a whole lot of other people dying of a whole lot of other things. Let those countries pick up the bill.
And I just read that President Bush is talking about going into Dafur to stop the genocide. Darfur, like Somalia and Bosnia, are NONE of our business. Let Africa take care of their own house.
And here I always thought that disease, famine, and war were Darwin’s (or God’s, depending on your point of view) process of natural selection.
This makes me sick.
Key difference being we never had any additional revenue increasers to fund the war, did we? But I guess all that oil revenue from Iraq is funding it so we didn’t need any, right?
What do you mean? What policy are you speaking of now?
Well, as I am sure you are aware you get HIV in a very different way than you can TB. And I am sure you are also aware that HIV has been a health issue in the US for decades so its not like we are introducing something new here.
Well Chap…they have been close a few times…but I seem to see a lot more negative gains on this CBO prepared budget analysis then positives…so yeah…I don’t trust their initial figures one bit.
The worst part about this is that everybody assumes that AIDS is settled science. It isn’t, anymore than global warming is. The hypothesis that AIDS is caused by a retrovirus has been challenged by thousands of scientists and clinicians, including two Nobel Prize winners. Every HIV test kit comes with a disclaimer by the manufacturer stating that its test is not conclusive. More than 70 conditions, from malaria to pregnancy to flu vaccinations, have been shown to yield false positive results on these tests. Even Dr. Luc Montagnier, co-discoverer of HIV, has admitted his inability to produce a pure specimen of the virus. And Congress is throwing away billions of dollars on something our public health officials can’t get right? I smell rotten pork.
We assume they’re gonna come over here and set up shop in a hospital bed funded by the taxpayer!
The days of Ellis Island are over. You know, where they’d stick a piece of metal in your eye lid to see if you harbored any infectious diseases and if you did: your ass was shoved back on the boat.
Now we openly accept diseased plebeians from the turd world. That sucks. The only way I’d be jumping for joy over this is if I sold pharmaceuticals.
That chart shows nothing except what our government spent versus what it brought in. Congratulations. You proved the Bush administration has racked up huge deficit spending.
Nothing on there relates in any way to CBO projections or the accuracy thereof.
If Jesse Justice Brother Jackson didn’t cut them off President Bush can show he has a pair and veto this. IF he had a pair. This taking of our money for feel good boondogles is wrong. If these Senators and Congressmen and concerned citizens wish they can start a fund to fight AIDS in foreign countries.Sell all they have and give to the poor or shut up. They have no moral right to take our money.
Senator Jon Kyl is generally a good guy, but even his lesser proposed program was wrong. The far easier way to keep AIDS and malaria out is to end immigration. Here in Arizona we treat all kinds of diseases the “undocumented guest workers” bring in.
It got 80 votes so I don’t think it will happen. I’m hoping the GAO will keep most of the money from going.
Let’s see…300,000,000 Americans, half are male, 1% are gay, 75% between the ages of 14-50. That’s 1.125M. Sixty yards of utility grade silver cloth duct tape (8.0 mil) is $5/roll. One roll per month per “manhole” costs out to $67.5 million per annum.
Where’s the other $49.932 BILLION going?
I have an idea. Why not scrap this entire bill and give us Americans a tax cut? We could use it to pay for the high prices of gas that Democrats have caused.
Ha, ha! Tell me about it!
How did the Democrats cause this high prices of gas? What policy changes did the make that brought this about?
Very po’ed at the senators from NC. Have any duct tape leftover Die Hippie?
Chap…It proves several administrations have racked up deficit spending. My point for the link is to show projections vs actual money spent. CBO consists of people who grossly underestimate the cost of things….for whatever reason.
BTW, I’m not a Bush supporter…I think the man is a total imbecile….but I don’t blame him for everything either. IMHO, with the exception of Session, Tancredo and a few others…all of Washington should be on trial for treason.
You can’t be that stupid!
Assume I am and answer the question.
Why not put this money towards research for things like Alzheimer’s, Lou Gehrig’s, and breast cancer? Why do we continually subsidize diseases that are brought on by choices of behavior? AIDS has a very simple, affordable fix: 1) Men keep their zippers up, 2) Women keep their legs closed, 3) Everyone stop using drugs. Babies born with AIDS, while tragic, was a choice of the mother and father, not mine. So, stop using my money to pay for your ignorance or stupidity, whichever the case may be.
I’m tired of subsidizing the irresponsible behavior of others.
I am pleasantly surprised “Wide Stance” Craig showed some common sense on this one. At least Senator Crapo has been batting pretty high this season for fiscal responsibility and he is not even up for re-election this election cycle. I am really getting tired of the Senate being so generous with our money.
Except it didn’t. It showed income received versus money spent. There were no projections anywhere on there.
If we have $50 billion to toss at non-US citizens with AIDS, then we have additional revenue to fund the war, that’s my opinion.
The policies/or lack thereof,
1. Allowing HIV/AIDS infected men within urban communities to spread their disease and infect an intolerable number of women within these communities.
2. Allowing HIV/AIDS infected prisoners to commingle in general populations with those who are clean.
3. Throwing as many free “clean” needles at drug addicts as possible, thereby continuing the habit of using and reusing a major conduit to spreading the disease.
Much like the deadly results of the above practices, I don’t think I’m far off in believing that allowing infected individuals into the US (so we can show that we are part of the “civilized” world?)only increases, and doesn’t minimize the chance of spreading this deadly disease amongst US citizens who are clean. That’s why I ask, from a sound public health perspective, what are the benefits of dropping this travel ban?
I hope so.
I am more than aware, and I don’t want to exasperate this health issue by needlessly importing it from foreign lands, unless you know of a benefit that exceeds this risk.
What is the benefit?
When does this congress adjourn and go home for awhile? A break from this spending spree is needed. I’ve been fighting to hold on to my wallet for so long, my arm is giving out. I even walk with a limp now. I figure that, given a few more years, the working American will owe more, each year, in taxes than he makes as income and all will be on welfare and food stamps.
I second that. A four and a half year break sounds good to me!
Wait, first they say pharma companies are evil price gougers pretending that R&D costs don’t exist. Then yesterday, BJ Clinton wants to give big contracts to 2 companies to lower the cost of malaria medicine to the third world & now billions to research cures for aids… Hmmmmm.
Well a least “the program, which also includes funds to battle tuberculosis“, might be a good thing, seeing as TB is making a strong comeback thanks to our immigration policies.
Out of control spending, another reason added to the many as to why I will never, ever support the national GOP country clubbers ever again. Democrap Lite, that’s what they are.
I was not discussing, nor have given any opinion of the bill as a whole. I was speaking only to the lift of the travel restriction, which is revenue positive. So I am not sure what your point is there.
The revenue does not have to be tied to the policy change. They could either disengage the tie-in or drop the revenue increase altogether. It is absolutely asinine that we are importing AIDS patients and Mexican peasants.
Personally being called a homophobe, or for that matter an islamophobe, has sort of become a Badge of Honor when you consider the scum who use the terms.
These people who are compassionate with our money to protect and encourage illicit sex are nothing but pimps.Let the Queens take up collections at the Bath houses and Queer Pride parades to fund aids research. I guess the concept of not doing queer is beyond them. How big a problem can AIDS be if they have to import it?
Please note that the Texas delegation, Cornyn and Hutchison voted against - nice to live in a state with smart folks.
Oh, my bad.
Hey, what’s your opinion of the bill’s price tag as a whole?
Me? I don’t believe we should become the world’s AIDS policeman.
I think that AIDS and Bush’s policy toward Africa is one of the very few things on which he can hang his hat and say he made a positive difference.
But I respect anyone who says we should not become the “world’s AIDS policeman.” The notion of taking care of our own first is not unreasonable.
Immune deficiency in Africans is caused largely by malnutrition, not by any virus. Accordingly, Doctors Without Borders has been successfully able to deal with this problem by supplying children with a diet of fortified peanut butter. However, teaching modern agricultural methods and creating a clean water supply are the most effective solutions, instead of toxic drugs, condoms and lectures on abstinence based entirely on racist stereotypes.
This legislation is fantastic news. AIDS isn’t just some “gay disease” abroad. The AIDS rates in certain African countries presents a real human emergency. Anyone talking about AIDS being preventable…well it’s not preventable for children who are born with it or who get it from breast milk. And in a society where condoms are considered weird and adultery is considered par for the course, then disaster is inevitable.
As for people lamenting that we are soon going to allow immigrants with HIV, shame on you. The idea behind legal immigration is to take the best and brightest. Where HIV works in to that equation is beyond me. Anyone who is saying that HIV patients are expensive is being disingenuous. Why not ban people genetically predisposed to cancer while we’re at it?
The HIV ban was something that brought me deep shame as an American. Thank God for Senators Kerry and Smith for their work.
Since when? That romantic notion of immigration died along with kennedy’s family reunification in the 1965 immigraiton act, which is the driving force behind the mjority of immigration today. And few would be considered the best and brightest.
You better watch it, Irish Rose will be along any minute to call you a biggot. Whne I proposed we base our immigration system on the “best and brightest” she rambled on and on about my racism and biggotry.
Total nonsense. HIV treatment is very expensive and can last decades. So how is the immigrant going to cover those costs? Either the taxpayer wil pick up the tab, or if he is employed, the insurance company of the employer will be forced to pick up the tab. So either I pay through taxes or higher premiums so the insurance company can offset the cost (you don’t seriously thing insurance companies are running a charity do you). The ONLY way that ensure it is no expense to Americans is if the immigrant pays out of their own pocket. Fat chance. As for the “cancer” statement. If a person has cancer and will obviously become a cost to Americans, then no admittance in my book. But nobody said anything about “predisposition” and it is disingenous for you to even equate the two.
Now, that said, I agree that it is silly to call it a “gay” disease. And we should strive to erradicate this horrible disease. However, I see no benefit to the american public of bringing in people with obvious diseases which we will have to treat and pay for. That makes no sense and anyone proposing such a stupid policy is not using logic. Rather they are making an emotional decision. Emotions are a poor substitute for logic and common sense.
Ok, Weary, you’re not being disingenuous. But a lot of the opposition to admitting HIV positive immigrants is the “ick factor.” I’m certain that people are hiding behind the cost argument to cover their true prejudices against people with the disease.
HIV is no longer a death sentence and although it’s still expensive to treat, that shouldn’t stop people from pursuing their American dream legally.
If you’re not willing to admit cancer patients either, points for consistency but deductions for bad policy.
I heard this and was enraged. They send 1 and 1/2 Billion to Mexico yet nothing for our border sheriffs and now this??/
I think we should all begin sending these axeholes Monopoly Money since the money they are printing isn’t worth much more than that!!! If they are trying to destroy the country they are doing a terrific job…..
I don’t unerstand the “bad policy” comment? How is it bad policy to deny admittance to someone who is highly likely to become a burden on the American taxpayer? Who benefits from such a policy? The immigrants themselves, not me. Now, if you want to argue on humanitarian grounds, that’s a different story. But I then refer to my statemetns above about decisions based solely on emotions, not common sense. Therefore, your “bad policy” statement is misguided. It is just a policy, not a good policy based on facts and reasoning. Now, if the immigrant is the next Einstein and agrees and signs a contract that the US taxpayer will never have to pay for their treatments (or the company that employs them agrees to cover all costs), then I could be had, maybe. But, even then frankly, I don’t find it wise to have a blanket policy that allows people with communicable diseases to enter. And yes, I fully understand how HIV is spread. Gay has nothing to do with my position as some of the best people I have known in my life were gay. I don’t understand being gay, but it is their choice, and as nothign to do with me. Cancer is a totally different game.
I do appreciate your cordiality and not resorting to the name calling others wnat to do.
How bright can they be if they were sharing needles, or engaging in risky, unprotected sex, because if they have AIDs, that is most likely how they got it. How anyone believes it’s a good idea bringing others here to spread the disease even more is beyond me.
Having indoor plumbing brings you deep shame as an American.
Sniff sniff, oh the shame, the SHAME, wahhhh haaah haah haaaah haaaah, sniff sniff, waaahhh haaaaah haaaah haaaah……
I hope your spouse or significant other never cheats on you and gives you an STD.
“Risky, unprotected sex” is the name of the game in some places. Africans are very wary of using condoms. That $50B should help counter that.
And in Africa, HIV is often transmitted via birth or breast milk. Those infants have such risky lifestyles!
Weary, I guess the difference is that I don’t see people who are sick or terminally ill. I just see people. And those people deserve the same shot as anyone else. If they’re otherwise qualified for legal immigration, I don’t care what they have.
Would you deny Stephen Hawking American citizenship if he wanted it?
I stated very clearly, if someone has much to offer then yea, they shoudl be allowed to immigrate, as long as I know they will not burden the taxpayers. I don’t get why that is hard to understand.
Same shot? I hope you don’t run a business with that logic. Let’s follow it through. Let’s say there is a rhodes scholar in Africa who needs medical treatmetn that cost $20K/month to treat, and has no money. He comes here finds a good job making $10K/month working in large corporation. Of course his preexisting condition will exclude him from almost any insurance. Most likely he will need the gov’t to pay for that treatment. He will pay maybe $3-$4k per month in taxes. Not sure how that equation closes. Anyone who allows this person in is using emotion not logic for their decision. Closing your eyes does not make the facts disappear. BTW, your compassion just cost the US taxpayer $200K each year. You know how many truly starving kids around the world that would feed, but doesn’t because you wanted to be so accepting? in a world full of scarce resources, we must use those resources wisely. By caring for one sick individual you divert resources from elsewhere. Look, I could agree with a policy that takes it case by case. If someone is truly a benefit to the US and/or the world due to a great talent or brilliance, then let them in. Otherwise, we are making a bad policy decision by allowing unskilled people in who will drain vital resources. After all, how many landscapers and carpenters do we really need?
Hawking has a lot to offer. So does a Rhodes Scholar with HIV. They both deserve a shot.
I don’t think America should be run like a business. It should be about getting the best and brightest. Many of these people are worth the investment. We spend a lot of money on things that are a lot less important.
Don’t forget, Rusty. We are not spending any money on it. Our good foreign friends who want to visit our fair country are.
If we brought only the best and brightest I would agree with you. Sometimes a risk is worth taking. However, all this is very high speculation. Youand i both know there is no Hawking with HIV waiting out there to come here. What there is out there, are millions of unskilled illiterates with HIV who will get in to the US playing on compassion and how is is not fair this person is denied. Of course the bleeding hearts will guilt everyone into relenting. If I had any faith in our gov’t to make the right decsions and say no when they hsoudl say no, I could be had. But all that will happen is we will get thousands of people, who never paid a dime into our system nor ever will, receiving welfare and free medical care. Whatever happened to the old days where an immigrant either made it on their own or failed and went home. Today we provide safety nets (which is usually much better than anything they could have had in their home country) which means the immigrants are taking no risks or have any fear of failure. Our “come on in” attitude will bankrupt this country.