Why is T. Boone Pickens all over my internet?
I basically get a good vibe from T. Boone Pickens–he’s a Republican oilman, and he backed up the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth with a million-dollar pledge to anyone who could prove them wrong (he hasn’t paid out yet.)
But all of a sudden he’s everywhere talking about how we can’t drill our way out of this energy shortage and we need to hook up a wind power grid pronto.
I suppose it’s an attractive man-bites-dog news hook: here’s an oil guy advocating wind and natural gas. Yet I’m really surprised at the degree of media saturation Pickens has achieved. I’m not very knowledgeable of such matters but I strongly suspect the operation of a PR firm getting all these op-eds placed in major publications and all this airtime.
Frankly it seems more than a little heavy-handed. I think the goal of a PR firm is to be subtle enough to where you don’t start wondering “who is getting this guy into every media outlet I read this week? Is he just buying this time to lobby me?”
I’m kind of agnostic on wind power; if it’s really a good thing, some entrepreneur like T. Boone Pickens ought to step up and build a wind farm. (I would support federal legislation requiring all such new wind farm construction to be sited so that it ruins the view of some prominent liberal.) I’m mainly puzzled as to why John Q. Public is suddenly being lobbied about how great this wind power thing is. Whaddaya want, a subsidy or something?
Anyway, it’s quite possible Pickens is being civic-minded and just really believes in this cause and wants to step up and use his money to change public opinion. Nothing wrong with that, and if you’re curious his website is here. There’s also some criticism of the “Pickens plan” at Townhall here–but their editors lose points for not incorporating “Boone-doggle” into the column title.
Of course, the other rather chilling aspect of the Pickens media blitz is this: here’s a prominent conservative who put up money and got personally involved on the Republican side in the 2004 election, who’s now not putting his time and money into getting Republicans elected this cycle but instead is advocating for a single issue. He’s not even pushing that issue from a partisan standpoint. That’s got to lead to an uptick in Maalox consumption at RNC HQ.
____________________
{Post by See-Dubya, in case Mr. Pickens’ PR firm was wondering whom to make the check out to.}
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- Tilting At T. Boone Picken’s Windmills : BigMouthFrog
- McCain Would Build 45 New Nuclear Reactors by 2030 If Elected : BigMouthFrog
- Michelle Malkin » Bosom buddies: Nancy Pelosi and Big Wind
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- Why no Drilling? Nancy Pelosi in Bed with T. Boone Pickens « POLITISITE: Politics from the RIGHT Side of the WEB
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I have always been suspicious of people who have a name beginning with an initial. Hmmmmm. Well, he is 80 years old so I guess he is not looking for a presidential slot.
Slim Pickens at the news desks ?
Wind power isn’t practical as a sole source of energy generation.
First of all, power on the grid isn’t stored. It’s made as it’s used. Wind is too erratic. In smaller applications (homes, ranches) where power is stored it is, however, a great supplement.
Now T. Bone Pickens knows we can’t be weaned from oil for another 30+ years. But as an alternative, wind and solar are the best alternates for creating electricity, perhaps freeing some oil for cars… if the oil companies can make the various remaining fuels (other than gasoline) work in vehicles.
No, he’s just gone senile.
Actually I suspect he sees the opportunity for some serious taxpayer dollars flowing his way.
He hasn’t been right in the head since he rode that bomb out of the belly of that B-52 whooping and hollering and waving his hat.
Hmmm…I think he is betting on the price of oil to keep going up so that he can make his next fortune in windmills (since the libs won’t allow drilling)…and if he is wrong he will profit handily from new drilling, so he is straddling his position long-term.
I come from the school of thought that says: you don’t say you can’t do something unless you’ve at least tried it.
We’ve never even tried to drill our way out of this. Let’s try that first, then go from there.
Heh, I was thinking about that movie about 30 mins ago. I guess I need stronger tinfoil.
But the near term energy problem is not really in electical generation. We don’t use all that much oil to create electricty— and what oil we do use is residual oil, basically what’s left after extracting gasoline, kerosene and feedstocks. And we know we can easily generate electricty with nuclear, natural gas, coal, geothermal, hydrothermal, etc.
The near term problem is LIQUID fuels for transportation. There are tens of millions of cars, trucks, trains, aircraft and ships that require some form of liquid petroleum derived fuel. There is no way the existing fleet can be converted to some other fuel anytime in the forseeable future.
All these solar, wind, etc., “solutions” don’t really address the problem
Well I’ve been to one world fair a picnic and a rodeo and that’s the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones. You sure you got today’s code?
I’ve always wondered how one powers an aircraft with windmills.
And as noted, wind, solar,etc., are not demand generation schemes. The only reason that wind works is that there are enormous nuclear, coal, hydroelectic, etc., plants available to generate power, and enormous transmission grids to carry it, when the sind doesn’t blow.
“Flipping the light switch in LA does nto cause the wind to start blowing in Palmdale.” You cannot base a high-tech civilization on an on-again-off-again power source. But then that appears to be part of the objective, to drive us back into a more primitive existence.
Pickens’ has the same problem Mcvajj has with his 45 nuclear power plants. How does one connect the generated electricity to a car without out having the driver invest $50,000 in a new car. How will Pickens’ accomplish the same trick. Pickens reminds me of the blind squirrel that found an acorn, it happens. Is he protecting outrageous oil profits. I think so. He does not want us to drill or excavate shale oil and why not, well he’s an oil man.
Yes, and the land that T. Boone has targeted for his wind farm is part of the bird migration territory. Let’s see what happens when the environmentalists find out that T. Boone’s windmills are chopping up all those nice birdies.
Actually, take some time to read what he testified to in front of Congress recently:
Run our cars on natural gas? No problem, large fleets and some cities vehicles already do this, and we are the Saudi Arabia of Natural Gas with massive reserves and production capacity, And Natural Gas also bypasses the need for refineries, which envirokooks would block and delay.
So imagine that – buying and burning fuel we make here in the US (and the money stays here too, good for the economy), versus sending money for it to the Wahabbi Saudis, and Hugo Chavez. Whats not to like?
And yes its only an interim step, but it would buy us time to push through the nuclear and clean coal plants we are going to need in the long run, give us breathign room for drilling in the OCS, ANWR and Oil Shales to bear fruit in the intermediate time frame.
Regarding him owning energy companies and benefitting from this…
I think its pretty clear he is a “good guy” in this regard.
Many folks here at MM have become so negative and whiney about everything that sometimes its difficult to wade past all the bilge to get the truth – or in this case to bring the truth to you. You;re so wrapped upin hating McCain (admit plenty of reasons to do so), that you carry that over to nearly anyone with your permanently jaundiced and overly cynical view of the world.
Buck up – and stop being so whiney.
And learn the truth instead of always jumping immediately to negative fantasies that have little basis in fact or reality, other than that you give voice to them.
I’m going to be building a house in the next couple of years on an inholding I purchased in the southwest. I will be incorporating solar and wind power but I’ll also put in a request with my local EMC since they’ve got a power line that runs adjacent to my property. I have zero desire to live “off the grid”.
And FYI, geographic diversity and widspread locations of the solar and wind power makes it fairly predictable in terms of load sustainment, and luckily, we use most of our power durign the day when these tqo technologies are generally at their best production.
Its not as limited as your paper-towel-tube narrow view leads you to beleive. Talk to the engineers about this scale of things.
Base load? No. Peak loads? Yes.
And as said before, its only there to allow Natrual Gas to be used as transportation, instead of power generation.
FYI, switching cars over is a matter of about $2000 or so per car. My old colocation company changed over thier generators from gasoline to natural gas with little difficutly and relatively low cost.
ALso check ion Perth Australia – thre is a HUGE market for LNG/LPG fueling for automobiles, and they are not sufffering fromt he petroleum mess – and better yet its every bit as safe as current gasoline autos and tiher filling stations. And best of all, they are not sending a penny ot Iran or Saudi Arabia or Hugo Chavez, nor are they competing with the Chinese for the supply.
The problems for Natural Gas have been solved, contrary to the know-nothing negative whiners who say otherwise. See the following for a complete refuitation of the “it cant be done” whiners above.
Honda will extend retail sales of its all-new compressed natural gas (CNG) 2006 Civic GX to New York this fall.
Honda already markets the Civic GX to fleet operators with their own fueling stations, and has begun offering the Civic GX and the Phill home natural-gas refueling appliance to its customers at select dealers in California.
Natural gas is approximately 25% less expensive than gasoline when purchased at a refueling station, and approximately 50% cheaper than gasoline when supplied by a home refueling appliance, according to Honda.
An overnight refill from Phill supports a GX driving range of about 250 miles.
Note that you can also change fuels at the flick of a switch from LNG to normal gasoline in a properly equipped vehicle.
So there – you’re WRONG about flipping to natural gas as a vehicle fuel source.
We CAN do this – and we should as a matter of strategic national importance- drill here drill now to work on the supply side, and switch to what we have a lot of, Natural Gas, to reduce the demand side of the petroleum market for the US.
Thats from a 2 year old press release (with my comments at the end). So NG has been around a while, but nobody has pushed it as the alternative that it shoudl be. Its time someone does. And if that’s Pickens, the more power to him, to keep our money here, and out of the hands of the Saudis and Venezuelans and other dictators.
Wind power is too unreliable and really doesn’t produce much. Natural gas is good, if we can put it to use in a practical way. I’m still in favor of nuclear energy, but everyone, now, is scared of a meltdown, thanks to hollywood and the media. Well, the Navy has been using it for decades, and it’s still the best source.
#15
I have never heard of using natural gas as a fuel in internal combustion engines. I do not know why. We have used LPG for years.
From Columbia encyclopedia:
liquefied petroleum gas
or LPG, mixture of gases, chiefly propane and butane, produced commercially from petroleum and stored under pressure to keep it in a liquid state. The boiling point of liquefied petroleum gas varies from about −44?C to 0?C (−47?F to 32?F), so that the pressure required to liquefy it is considerable and the containers for it must be of heavy steel. When prepared as fuel, LPG is largely propane; common uses are for powering automotive vehicles, for cooking and heating, and sometimes for lighting in rural areas. LPG is an attractive fuel for internal-combustion engines; because it burns with little air pollution and little solid residue, it does not dilute lubricants, and it has a high octane rating.
Except that what T. Boone Pickens is really drilling for here is tax dollars. He admits, up front, that his plan does not make any sense at all unless government subsidizes the production of each and every windmill, even at today’s inflated prices.
This is just another Billionaire with his hand in my pocket, trying to get a little bit more.
He’s a maverick and the media needs to break in a new one, doncha know.
Are there ANY Republicans left to advocate for? All I see is a huge herd of RINOs. Animals in herds tend to get slaughtered… just saying…
Just imagining myself hiking in the misty mountains with my knapsack on and enjoying nature and coming upon an overlook where there’s this low swishy roar and seeing stretched to the horizon, taking up thousands of acres like wildflowers, wind vanes….
James Greenidge
While I’m sure Pickens plans to make a pile of money from his plan, what’s wrong with that?
I saw part of Pickens Senate testimony Tuesday. His main focus seems to be ‘Let’s use ALL United States Home Produced energy’. The Wind Farm approach is presented as an interim strategy. Mostly the focus is ‘Energy Independence in 30 years’. Unlike The Goracles ideas, these sound workable.
I never get a god answer to this question: What do you do when the wind isn’t blowing? We will have to have just as much coal, oil, and nuclear power as we do now because wind isn’t reliable.
I’m much more in favor of nuclear power than wind energy. I keep hearing that wind farms are noisy and unsightly. Nuclear power plants are more reliable, and you can drive right by one and hardly even notice.
Fifty years ago most aircraft were powered this way. They used propellers, but you have to have something to get them turning to create the wind. And believe it or not, C-130 aircraft can be jump started by another C-130 using propellers. You use the variable pitch feature to back one up to the other and use the wind generated from one airplane engines to turn the propellers on the other and start the engines. Neat huh!!!
Legacy
He has tested which way the wind is blowing and decided to get in on the easy pickens.
T Boone knows that Solar and Wind does not produce power at night and when the wind is calm. For every Kilowatt of either there has to be stand-by power for then they are not available. I agree that Old T Boone just wants to drink deep twice from public funds. Once for public aid to build wind power and again to supply the power plants when the wind does not blow.
It would appear you have a basic misunderstanding of the concept of propeller driven flight.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t it just reported that T Boone is heavily invested in wind technology and land containing natural gas? I believe the report stated something to the effect that he wasn’t doing it for the money, just that he is some home spun honest businessman wanting to help the USA?
New technology will solve everything within a year. We can dump all our cars and planes and everything else powered by oil. The new technology will be ready to go in just a little while. I mean, after all, when Henry Ford invented the “old technology” it was within a year that every American had their own car and the interstate highway system was set up.
The new technology will be found, developed, marketed and in our homes very very soon… we don’t need the old technology any more.
I wouldn’t be surprised. He didn’t get to be a billionaire by following the herd.
Found this on Tim Blair’s site…
http://mx.truveo.com/incendio-en-un-aerogenerador/id/3194230329
Tim calls it “Clean and Green”
Enjoy
I do not believe Pickens is a bad guy. Here is a guy that loves this country, has been incredibly successful and is able to offer a solution instead of just pointing fingers and whining.
If I recall correctly, he isn’t against drilling at ALL. He just wants to make certain that we are drilling here and making use of our resources. There is nothing wrong with that. He’s at least throwing solutions out there.
Wind power will produce energy. It certainly will not be the cure for all of our energy needs, but it certainly could provide some of it.
I drive in West Texas frequently – through Roby, Colorado City, Roscoe, etc. Although they are unsightly, the windmills are everywhere. It’s a bit surreal and sci-fi for my tastes, but these towns were literally dying a few years back. Now, since the wind is constant out there (consistent bad hair days, trust me), the windmills have come in and the economies of these areas are improving. Little businesses in these towns are coming back, jobs are being created. The windmills placed on farm and ranch land out there are generating income for the owners who need the $$$$.
Look at this issue a bit before you just chalk it up to another liberal green issue. It’s not. Our country has a need for this and Pickens has the resources to move it forward.
When you reach that age managing that much money, you have gas and breaking wind issues.
In fairness to T. Boone, I think his viewpoint hinges more on the independence angle than any specific interest in “green” technologies. His point that we are financing both sides of the WOT is correct and appears to be his motivation, not necessarily more profits for T. Boone.
Nuclear is the answer. I have lived all most my whole life 37 years within 2 miles of a nuclear power plant. Not once have I ever been scared or concerned about it causing us harm.
My school district is the lowest taxed in the state of Ohio because all the tax dollars we get from the plant. I love it. We are small farming community and are schools are some of the best in the state and offer things that the biggest schools do not offer.
School districts that are suffering should be pushing for nuclear plants in their communities and all their money problems will go away.
Great posts!
All of these comments are interesting and insightful. I only hope that they will amount to something. We had these very same discussions back in the ’70s when gasoline was pushing 50 cents per gallon (yes, I was there and I had those discussions) and we were in a panic, then. When the economy equilibrated and we got used to the status quo, we got complacent, again. One of these days, we’ll actually convert cars to LNG, or run an electric grid off of wind, solar, or nuclear … maybe. But we have to get off our collective duffs and do it. Otherwise, four or five years from now, we’ll be having the same discussions; lamenting on how we should have done something “four or five years ago”.
read this article about Pickens & his plan to use wind power for energy. I found it interesting:
http://www.townhall.com/content/e1081f12-108f-4e80-9422-39bc4ffb817c
Wind energy will not always be reliable due to the fluctuations of the wind, but it is an added bonus to the electrical shortage. If we are not using other fuels to generate electricity, we can use them elsewhere in our vehicles. This country needs to use wind power, solar power, and nuclear power in addition to more drilling for oil. It has to be an all-inclusive way to get us out of this problem. I will say again that we need to get rid of 20 30 million illegals and we will have enough fuel for the rest of us. Trying to get the liberals to ever go this route will be impossible.
Actually,
T. Boone Pickens started working on a huge wind Farm Project when there was a 1.9 cent per KWh subsidy in place. he bought land, made contracts and was counting on that 1.9 cent per KWh to make alot of extra cash. In 2007, the 1.9 cent per KWh was not renewed and so, he now faces a huge loss in profit.
Oil used for electricity generation accounts for less than 3% of all oil consumed in America. Cutting that to none would not in any way shape or form improve our circumstances when it comes to the price of oil and gas.
Wind farns need back-up power sources to be used. England is right now learning the lesson on this. Basically you have will have to have a coal/natural gas or nuclear power plant in standby mode at all times to pick up the slack when the wind fails. All power plants have a minimum rating at which they can run, and at this rating are extraordinarily inefficient and typically use 40% to 60% of the energy to run at minimum capacity producing no electricity than they do at full capacity producing electricity.
This means that for the US to have large proportions of its energy needs met with wind power, we would have to do a combination of two things. When the wind does not blow, cut power to customers. The other choice is to have back up power generation plants throwing money away while running in backup mode. Neither choice is a good one and the combination would be just as bad.
In closing, the reason that this guy wants us to think wind power is for his pocket book. He is trying to force the hand of some conservatives to vote for more subsidies for his pet wind farm project. Sorry, but this guy is a loser and even if he did back up the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, he has lost that credibility and replaced it with big government hand outs for me at any cost morals.
Exactly. So many times I hear people criticize proposals with the words “That’s not the solution.” That kind of narrow thinking is baloney. This is America. We don’t have to pick one thing and do it to the exclusion of all others. I say let’s look at all of the things that can help and do them all.
This reminds me of an old Dave Gardner Joke (Dave who? Most of you are not old enough to remember him)
The Joke is about a flim-flam man
One day outside a small southern town a billboard appeard; IT’S COMING
The next day the billboard said; IT’S COMING SOON!
The next day it said; “It will be here, buy your tickets today”
The next day it said; IT’S GONE!
Let’s see now …
1. Pickens makes money off of solar and wind and natural gas …
2. Gore makes money scamming the world with carbon credits …
I’ll take Pickens …
BOO, WILLIAM AMOS, BOO.
Slim Pickens
LOLROF !!!
Wind could serve to supplement the power grid but overall generating capactiy from non-renewables would have to remain the same. This would reduce the amount of coal/natural gas/plutonium required overall but would require a huge capital investment, as well as maintenance and land purchases. The real question is whether these costs could be offset by the savings in fuel. If it could be shown to work I am for it.
T. Boone just got the state of Texas to force its ratepayers to pony up $5 billion for transmission lines to where he’s planning to build his wind farms. But that’s only in the Texas Panhandle. He needs fed money to pay for the transmission lines to build more wind lines to the wind farms he wants to build further north.
How are you getting “3%” on the oil used for electricity generation? The DOE cites it as supplying “more than 40% of our total engercy demands.“
I don’t think there would be a need to convert the current fleet of vehicles to natural gas. New cars and trucks would probably be duel-fuel and attrition would replace what we have now.
But the “Can’t drill our way out of this” concerns me as I think we can: We have coal and oil galore and with the new technology coal is much cleaner than previously. I have no problem with wind and solar as local supplements, particularly solar, but as the major source of electricity I don’t see it.
But T. Bone is not algore so I am listening to the man. I am of the “ignore Gore” mindset. We often use a Solar Powered clothes dryer.
Drill here
Drill now
Pay less
engercyenergySorry. Typing too fast this morning, without proofing things.
Is there any chance that all of this press is just a trial balloon? Is Pickens actually looking to become a third candidate?
He’d get my attention, for sure.
Re: wind power, remember that Pickens *is* putting his money where his mouth is: he’s building the largest wind farm in the world in the Texas panhandle.
This isn’t a guy who made his billions by being wrong about energy. Wind power has limitations, of course, but don’t underestimate it. And don’t forget, Pickens himself is referring to it as a “bridge,” not the ultimate solution.
Unlike Obama and McCain, Pickens has published a plan that can be reviewed and discussed. It’s technologically challenging for those who know the technologies, yet it can be understood by a child. Or a liberal. Well.. “maybe” for the liberal.
I’d be very interested in hearing if Pickens wants to become “President T. Boone,” or “President Pickens…” I’m not saying he’d have my vote, but so far I like the cut of his jib.
Ask Dow Chemical how affordable natural gas is here. We may be the Saudi Arabia of Natural Gas,just like we’re the Saudi Arabia of coal, but with one huge difference: Saudi Arabia actually drills for oil, whereas we don’t drill for oil or natural gas, and restrictions on coal use is just around the corner, all thanks to envirokooks. And don’t even get started on nuclear.
Seems some folks in this country are all for any energy source we can find…except for those that actually work best, and that we currently have the technology for now.
Ordinary Coloradan/Coloradoan, the name explains much, wind mills do not generate natural gas. Your juggling of facts is so a mater of convenience but does not endanger your know it all persona.
I thought by now that every home would have solar panels and better cars running on alternative fuels. But no, we have cheap TVs, cellphones and a congress who whines about everything. How long has it been since we’ve had any energy plan. Sucking up to the saudis is not an energy plan.
OK I have to jump in here because I work at a coal fired power plant which has installed clean coal technology. Dominion Resources has a team in Indiana right now, working on wind turbines. Its a viable source of power for smaller communities, and I beleive that any effort to supplement power generation should be attempted. I do not believe that wind power can be used exclusively, but we need to be exploring all avenues available. Even private citizens with access to running streams can install a small turbine to produce electricity, and sell the excess back to the power companies. Do not dismiss out of hand anything that seems stupid.
Murphy’s 3rd Law of Combat “If it’s stupid and works, it’s not stupid”
Yes
Yes
And, yes.
One of the most ridiculous statements I keep hearing repeated over and over again is that “We can’t drill our way out of this problem”. You extract oil from the ground by drilling. The US is sitting on huge reserves of untapped oil both on and offshore.
You can indeed drill your way out of the immediate problem. But, that effort needs to be accompanied by a long range plan with an eye toward replacing carbon based energy in the future. One would think our elected officials would have done this, but one would be wrong. Congress has known since the 1970’s of the pressing need for a long range energy policy, just as they have known of the ponzi scheme called social security. They have done nothing to help the country. Nothing.
Be very wary of giys like Pickens who puts his efforts into drilling for public opinion when he stands to make out like a bandit financially for the direction he is advocating.
We need to do it all. Drill now, and get Congress to get off their dead butts to actually THINK for a change. Not about themselves, but about this Nation.
Brother Dave Gardner
A friend once told him, “Brother Dave, you should be a preacher, you could make millions.” Brother Dave responded with “What would a precher spend it on?”
Rejoice Dear Hearts.
“I may be slow, but I’m ahead of you”
One other thing to remember about Natural Gas: it’s $1/gallon *today.* If/when demand for it doubles or triples because most of our cars start running on it, I’m pretty sure that the price will go up.
This is that same pesky supply and demand stuff that befuddles the genius’ in congress. T. Boone clearly knows it, too – anyone want to bet that he’d make some $ on it?
And then there’s the massive investment in infrastructure needed to convert however many fuel stations to pump NG. Who do you think those costs will be handed to? Yet another cost-driver…
I still think that using NG and DC to fuel cars is a great idea as an interim. Like Pickens says, his plan is a bridge – particularly since we know that gasoline *will* go to $300/bbl by 2018. That’s a sure thing.
But let’s not think that NG and power aren’t going to go up in costs, too. The game here is to have them rise by a lot less than oil AND to get us de-coupled to fuel sources owned by people who want to kill us.
And, oh yeah, if/when we do that, we can sell that technology to other people that the muslims want to kill. I’m pretty sure that’s how economies grow…
I’m for all the above. Wind powered generators are getting more efficient. Solar plants using molten salt to make steam to generate electricity are being built. Nuclear power has been shown to be safe and affordable over the years. Clean burning coal and natural gas, if regulations were lifted, could go a lot further to get us independent of imported sources. Drill here. Drill now. We along with our neighbors could be totally energy independent from Middle Eastern imports very shortly. In the mean time the futures market would see that we are serious and the price would begin to get down to where the price of a barrel should be, around 60-70 dollars.
I have no problem with wind power, for at least farmers can become energy independant. In central oregon they are learning to get energy from the irrigation ditches. Enough to sell back to the grid. We don’t want to be completely dependant on the energy grid either.
But T-Bone is the smartest guy around. He is an oil speculator. He predicted oil would go to 150 dollars a barrell and it goes right up to it (about 148). He sells off his oil stock and proposes natural gas and windmills and the price of oil drops.
For a start, he’s making the hugest profits ever right now, so there’s one reason not to drill. Also, what’s the bet he was counting on the moratorium on drilling never to be lifted, and has invested heavily in alternative energy sources – specifically wind driven sources. In this scenario, should drilling start in the continental USA, he will get hit by a double whammy, so of course he’s against it.
The American West is dotted with old one farm windmills – all surplussed. It was yesterday’s energy source before electrification came along. Whose idea is it to go back to that?
I see gore is thinking about non-coal electricity generation. Of course, if he were president, those of us in the Northwest would be building coal plants to replace our big, beautiful and expensive hydro-electric dams that he wanted to tear down. He is a 100% pure whack job.
“Can’t drill our way out?” That phrase makes no sense whatsoever. My BS meter is going off with the T. Boone add. Wind power? Are you pulling my leg?
Mister P, the irrigation ditch idea works until they need the water for the salmon – you can’t win, my friend.
Drill our way out..
isn’t that like saying, ‘Can’t work our way out of debt’
‘ Can’t grow ourselves food’
According to your precious DOE, in 2006 the United states produced 4,064,702 Thousand Megawatthours of energy. Of that 64,364 Thousand Megawatthours of energy was produced using petroleum. This comes out to be 1.58% of the total electrical output of the entir nation. Only when you include transportation, where there is no alternative fuel source, does the energy consumption of OIL become relevent, and since the whole point is to free up oil for use in automobiles, wind power replacing petroleum generation plants is a completely insignificant part of the problem that completely wastes vast amounts of resources for a negligible return.
40% of our energy needs includes transportation energy in the form of diesel, gasoline, jet fuel and so forth.
SUPPORT CAPE WIND! IT WILL ANNOY TED KENNEDY AND A BUNCH OF OTHER HOITY-TOITY CAPE CODDERS.
From what I understand, T. Boone Pickens’s company (Mesa Power) put up hundreds of millions to build a giant wind farm in Texas and is going through the final stages of regulatory approval now. I don’t know whether he got any grants or subsidies from the government to build it or not. Still, Pickens is putting his money where his mouth is, so I’m inclined to listen to him.
BOL!
I have a good friend and entrepenuer now helping wind mill farms develop along the columbia river. He has figured out a process to greatly reduce the red tape that adds 40,000 to the construction of a wind mill.
I think conservatives easily get caught up in polarity and if the other side likes something, they must hate it. Liberals likewise.
But I see two goals. First in independance from foreign sources (be it oil, gas or other). Second is redundantcy or the ability of an individual to produce all his only energy needs. In that sense I tend to be libertarian.
Most farm windmills from 50 – 100 years ago were to run irrigation pumps.
Nobody is saying that wind power will cure everything or that it doesn’t have issues (birds, for one), but it’s foolish to say that it couldn’t be grown far beyond where it is today.
Drill now? Sure.
More, modern nuclear? Absolutely.
Go after oil shale? Of course.
Expand wind and solar power? Obviously.
The one thing that Pickens has that we don’t is the billions of dollars needed to get this common sense message out.
Is he missing some things? Yes. As was noted here, COAL is our most plentiful resource. Once the environuts get over their fear of CO2, we can USE IT.
Of course, then they’ll start talking about the water crisis, but one thing at a time…
I don’t know why you feel the need to get snotty about it but their statement seems pretty straight forward and talks about today’s impact of oil in energy production, as well as the amount it constitutes for transportation.
You sound like a defeatist, and something we don’t need. If the irrigation ditch works up to a point, I bet they are smart enough to have an alternative energy source to help them after that. Too bad the rest of us don’t have that!
It seems when See-Dub first wrote this article, we had a lot of “band wagon” jumpers, thinking Pickens is senile or proposing something stupid.
As many have said, it is time we try everything reasonable (not things like turning sticks and grass into energy) and do it. Drilling may not be the immediate answer, but added with coal, nuclear power, wind power, natural gas, hydrogen power and others, it becomes the mix that will get us out of the problem.
Try listening to Pickens before you decide who he is and what he is proposing. He has done something Senators never do and that is to actually do what they are proposing, instead of sitting around together talking about it and patting themselves on the back.
I have said it before, if McCain wants to win this election by a landslide than he needs to shut up. Walk on to the floor of Congress today and propose one single bill that ends the restrictions on refineries and nuclear power, slashes taxes across the board and opens up our land to drilling and energy exploration.
Do it now, not promise to do it later.
Pickens has a lot of money invested in wind technology right now, so the acceptance of wind energy will pay out for him.
I don’t have a problem with him pushing the issue. One of his main points is that our national security is at risk due to the massive amounts of money being sent to the middle east, Nigeria and Venezuala, all who tend not to think highly of us Americans.
So can we drill for natural gas off-shore, AND if we happen to strike oil can we keep it? They are often found in the same place aren’t they?
What’s the word on ocean tidal/wave power? Nothing about that in the news. I would think that would be a more reliable and simpler solution than wind, solar, or geothermal, with a lot less environmental impact.
And natural gas? It’s a by-product of oil exploration and expensive to boot. Pickens needs to do a better job selling me his ideas. My antennae are up on this guy.
Its a waste posting here half the time.
Bucketheads like Bitboy do not have the readiong comprehension skills to read that the wind displaces natural gas based power plants for peak (not baseload) demand. Other boneheads dont get it that the wind is always blowing somewhere in the country- thats why geographic diversity is important – the wind may not be blowing all that much in one place, but in others it is. And there are places that have nearly constant winds due to terrain features. So study the geography, weahter, and do the math – you can provide electrictiy from wind power on a fairly reliable basis. Same with solar, especially out here in the west. And also remember that its an interim solution while we build nukes and “clean coal” plants (due to envirokooks delaying things in the courts by a decade).
As for a lot of the rest, is this MM or is it Daily Kos? You folks ate bit**ing about a guy making money, and accusing him of being a rich guy… as if thats a crime?
If that’s the way you see the world, then you may as well go to Daily Kos and the other leftist sites, you’re complete and utter idiots to play the class warfare and conspiracy games they play on the left in matters of important natuional security policy.
The bottom line is that this guy Pickens is advocating we move toward supplying all our energy needs from the US, using nearly every means at our disposal to do so, and is laying out a lot of ways to get it – including drilling the OCS and in ANWR as I showed with the quote posted above (and below).
This guy is NOT running for Presidant, he’s old, he’s rich and he has apparently decided to try to do something to help his country before he checks out. Read the quote I previously posted and now repeat here.
So there goes that argument of yours, unless yougo the conspiracy anti-capitalist moron route of the Daily Kos posters.
And the following pretty much deflates most of what the rest of you are saying negatively:
READ THE BOLD ABOVE! Get that into you thick heads. We do not need to be attacking people that are on our side and helping to get us out of this mess we are in. Especially with class warfare styled leftist arguiments, and idiotic Ron-Paul like “paleocon” stupidity.
So can one of you stop and please explain why getting off foreign oil, be it on tax subsidised wind, and converting vehicles to compress natural gas, and other ideas, some long term, some short term, is such a bad idea?
Is it because a rich guy might make a buck? What is wrong with you – are you here at MM now opposed to capitalism?
Do you oppose government spending on strategic defense? No? OK then consider this:
What could be more strategic than denying our REAL enemies, the Wahabbist Saudis and Hugo Chavez, our oil money, keeping it in our US economy, and becoming self-sufficient for our energy needs?
Is that not worth some “defense spending” in the form of tax subsidies?
Or would you rather to continue to buy fuel for our jets and tanks from Hugo Chavez and the Wahabbists in Saudi?
THINK!
Actually, you are exactly backwards. Large scale wind, diversified over many states may provide some % of base load. That is the wind blowing in Texas one day, while not in North Dakota, and vice-versa. And the wind is almost always blowing somewhere.
It is inappropriate to Peak loads since you can’t crank up wind on demand. The load comes when it comes. You can’t call up for more wind, like you can call for more steam.
Given the way people object to new high tension lines from power plants, I wonder how they will react to all the lines needed from all the wind farms.
Here’s a silly thought; if it’s possible for people to store wind-generated power in their homes, why can’t we add some form of storage to the grid? I’m aware that it would take a LOT of batteries, but what the hey.
As for Pickens’ motives, is it possible that he is looking at this issue from an energy security/independence standpoint? I’ve been turning his ideas around in my head for awhile, and I can’t find any reason to disagree with him.
Here here! I am shocked that Pickens is saying exactly what I thought so many on here would be in favor of, but instead so many on here see See-Dub question the motives and suddenly too many on here are against Pickens and his ideas (not really his ideas, but the ideas YOU think are his ideas).
There are two ways to approach principles, let others do your leg work and tell you what you should believe, or take what others say and go out and find what you believe to be true. It is unfortunate that on here too many are letting others tell them what to think.
Dog bites man isn’t news, but when oilman turns wind power, that’s news.
I’m a little miffed here too! We seem to jab and ridicule anyone who has a idea just because it seem great sport to be witty. Get real! Does anyone else care to offer any other ideas here that can wean us off foreign oil?
T. Boone is speaking for me, and a lot of others here, we GOT to get our energy independence back. Whether its wind power, solar, nuke, geothermal, whatever.. It’s anything… anything to get that foreign imported oil monkey off our back!
This is a great forum to discuss ideas, but I don’t see a lot of ideas being floated out, just attempts to shoot at whatever flies overhead.
Anyone for using some of the sunny Southwest US and put up a bunch of Solar Thermal reflectors to turn some steam turbines? It’s a bright idea that can free up some fossil fuels. Just a thought, and simular to what T.Boone is proposing with his wind farms.
Lets follow liberal logic:
Lib: Drilling now won’t help in the short run, it will take at 10 years for anything to happen if we drill now.
Lib: We have to act now on global warming. If we don’t act now, decades down the road we’ll be sorry.
Yes, that’s liberal thinking for you.
Drill here, drill now, pay less.
Incumbents need not apply. And that includes McNotgoing to drill.
OK those opposed, Have at it. Call me names, whine about Pickens like a bunch of Daily Kos quitters. Keep explaining why it can’t be done – but in the end, get out of the way of those of us who are trying to do something about the problem, unlike those sitting on the sidelines trashing people.
Need I remind you of Teddy Roosevelt?
I’ve tried to explain as best I can but some people are simply too fixed in their viewpoints and immersed in unwarranted skepticism to allow themselves to abandon the comfort of their prejudices and go to something new – try being part of the solution rather than continuing the problem.
Many of you remind me of the GOP back in 76 when we tried to pry the door open for Reagan, and were rebuffed by people with attitudes just like yours.
But at the end, try to answer the vital questions:
Would you rather to continue to send billions overseas buying oil, or would you rather start the ball rolling with what we can do now to become self sufficient?
Here, now and start with what we have that’s acheiveable.
At the moment, thats natural gas, wind and solar, sawgrass ethanol, and diesel (in the guise of biodeisel but converted later to shale and coal based diesel).
Why? Its due to environmentalists, cowardly legislators, and the courts.
We can push through nukes and clean coal, but we have to do something NOW while the ultimate solutions (nukes and coall conversion to liquid fuels) push through the courts and legislatures.
To continue to do nothing is stupid and a recipe for disaster.
I’m done with this thread, so go ahead and tear into me. Matthew 7:6.
T. Boone is senile like a fox. Watch your wallet, folks.
Pickens also owns LNG refueling stations.
Wind power and batteries will cost 10 fold. Hydro uses un needed electicity to pump water back up to the reserve as a ’storage system’.
Having been around a number of brilliant startups, real ground breaking Make The World a Better Place kind of stuff, not one got much past the starting gate despite plentiful capital, first rate business models and planning, top drawer public relations and several projects very, very well connected in the right places in Washington. Each one died as if shot in the back of the head because each threatened an established entrenched interest that had (whatever) market tidily in hand.
It decidedly will take, unfortunately, a massive federal commitment on the scale of a combined operation the size and scope of both the moon shot and the Manhattan Project to produce the right energy alternative in both endless supply, and cheaply purchased by the consumer.
DARPA caused the modern network to be born out of the work of both the Bell System and Alan Turing, by trying to figure out how a C3 structure might be engineered to survive a concentrated, repeated nuclear salvo aimed at burrowing into whatever hardened facility we built as a last resort. Their eventual model was the human brain, which, oddly, can take a massive amount of trauma and still operate. Because … of the uncountable number of individual parts that make up the brain. The brain routes around damage if it has to, and that’s what modern networks do. Instead of a centralized C3, create a vast number of individual nodes and desktops that work in concert in a damage sustainable network and the system can continue to function with one or many of its nodes knocked out.
Vamp this observation into our energy question. What we suffer now is gigantic, thus vulnerable, single point systems. Gasoline comes to my car only from an incredibly fragile yet infinitely complex market system. Any disruption in one of dozens of vulnerabilities causes me grief and soaring costs. That’s the same as the electricity grid. Talk about fragile, it can’t even withstand mere weather, let alone government bureaucracies, guerillas, earthquakes or over-demand. The astonishing waste involved in generating and delivering electricity is hardly to be believed, let alone the meager amount that’s actually delivered at point of use after a substantial portion is lost over the wires just delivering the stuff. And we cannot ’store’ the product generated. Use it, or its gone.
Surely there’s a better way. A way to create power at the point of use. A way to acknowledge the wisdom of breaking leviathan systems down into millions of interlinked parts so that if any one part goes down, it doesn’t drag the whole kit with it. A way so that I can be independent yet participate in making sure the grid is supplied.
There is a way. Which is why it will probably be the most uphill monumental battle in the history of Man. The damage the Russians were willing to absorb driving to Berlin will seem trivial compared to breaking the grip of addiction marketing by the world’s largest enterprises and kingdoms.
That way is the stand alone hydrogen fuel cell plant at your home. Once the engineering is worked out to get efficient production using two hydrogen molecules from water instead of the four molecule model from methane (natural gas), how about a fuel cell at your home that produces your electricity and your local transportation fuel via high efficiency solar applications? No muss no fuss and no ridiculously vulnerable supply line that can be broken in hundreds of ways, like we’re experiencing now with speculation, asymmetric war, terrorism and politics determining supply and delivery?Let alone the vulnerability of naked pipelines, cracking plants, thousands of fuel bombs driving around delivering the stuff one at a time and the corrosive polluting nature of the fuel itself. And how oil and gasoline corrupt our national political interests and national political character is a hundred times worse than the curse of warlord drug cartels and their dirty political currency. Why not cut this malignancy right out of our national body and be done with it? No foreign policy driven by energy issues. No national political debacles driven by energy issues. No political handcuffs. No crushing household calculus because of energy issues. No trillion dollar transfer of wealth to our enemies, for pete’s sake. Just clean, abundant solar driven energy that produces no pollution and can be planted wherever energy is needed.
That’s why it will be fought tooth and nail, as if Armageddon. The number of enemies to your independence and my independence are beyond legion. So much of world cumshaw crosses palms because of our energy dependence. No … one … in that arena is going to allow you or me to become energy independent without a bloody, godawful and costly struggle. Political fortunes will be ruined, political heads will roll and kingdoms would fall. They will do everything in their power to coerce us to remain tethered to their teat.
While I acknowledge the intellectual capital of this article by Mr. Simberg, I respectfully disagree. For me to enjoy real and lasting energy independence, real freedom like I always believed America was meant to be for its citizens, the federal government (never thought I would say such a thing) will have to go to the mats and muscle a crash project the size of both the moonshot and the Manhattan Project. Nothing less than the sum of concentrated political will at the highest level, like men with their hair on fire will break the suicidal grip of addiction marketing that permits our enemies fangs in our national jugular.
I’ve got nothing against oil and gasoline. Nothing quite satisfies like mashing the loud pedal on 500 horses of fuel injected Detroit iron. But what that represents and the mass of men and enterprises that have me in their thrall because of lack of choices is simply unacceptable to me as an American. More than anything else, I resist being forced and coerced, boxed in and hered. Now that there are alternatives, and damned good alternatives that foster my freedom and my independence, I say balls to the wall for the stand alone hydrogen fuel cell at the point of use.
And it will take a war to make that happen. Maybe even a shooting war.
I don’t think this is about the money. because we cannot depend on the gov to get us out of this one. He knows that, and also knows that this alone will not solve the problem but it will solve a part of it. When it comes to alternative energy, it would take a combination of all of them(Ethanol, conservation, coal, wind power, nuclear…) to make a difference. And still wouldn’t solve the problem. But it would make a difference. At least he is doing something… While the governament is worried about their own interests.
The US is the biggest consumer of oil in the world! Something right around 23% of all oil produced in THE WORLD! That is the problem! I’m not agreeing with Obama on turning up our airconditioner thing, but, it may come to that if nobody takes action. We have the right to have our airconditioner to whatever temp. we want, but we need to produce our own energy for national security reasons! I’m not sure where we will end up if we continue to use and abuse of IMPORTED oil. That worries me! And our dollar is on a free fall. And our enemies are making sure that this continues to happen. Hugo Chavez has his aliance of friends(that have oil) determined to destroi the US ecomomy. Wind may not be the solution but until someone else come with a solution we need TO SUPPORT THOSE WHO ARE AT LEAST TRYING!
I’ll rather see the GOV giving money to these patriotic americans like Pickens, than to HUGO CHAVES… Anytime!
I appreciate what you and others are doing to shed light on Picken’s financial self interests. Anytime someone comes imploring us to give him the public teat we should be very wary that we are going to get what is promised.
But you are wrong in the above explanation of how our existing power generation would be adversely effected. A wind power scheme such as this would not be a replacement for the already existing baseload generators. It would not force those plants that run inefficiently at reduced load to operate that way.
Electricity generation also includes large amounts of plants with components that are designed to be throttled up and down to meet changing demand. Including many of the newer generation modular and peak load plants that are designed to be very efficient at this task. Natural Gas is widely used and well suited for this.
Wind would supplement the existing overall capacity thereby lowering the consumption of fuels. There would be no significant efficiency penalty to existing power plants for the levels of wind production contemplated.
The costly build out of grid infrastructure in a wind plan like this further mitigates the need for regional power companies to have to make plant changes to accommodate this.
Of course none of this affects power companies continuing need to build new traditional power plants of whatever kind to meet our future needs. Particularly if we move en masse from oil/gas to electricity for transportation. Wind or solar doesn’t replace the need for generating plant capacity, it just reduces a portion of the fuel burned.
Whether the cost of doing such a wind scheme is always economically efficient is a whole other story.
I read a piece on Townhall yesterday on the disadvantages of wind turbines to supply power. They include: dead birds (the watermelons and PETA will be all over the poor hacked-up birdies), noise, the fact the turbines only work for a few hours a day, the fact that turbines are worthless on windless days (not good for hot muggy summer days when everyone has the a.c. cranked), and that you’d need to blanket several thousands of miles with turbines to meet most of our energy needs. Nuclear and coal are better to generate electricity.
No.
On this subject, I am an optimist as long as we have the will to succeed. From the rocking chair to the Internet, there is nothing the inventive American mind is incapable of achieving as long as we don’t automatically rule out any solution, stick to the practicalities and keep our eyes on the prize.