How we know immigration enforcement is working–Part I
The independent (but pro-enforcement) Center for Immigration Studies estimates an eleven percent drop in the number of illegal aliens in America from last August to this May.
Though I believe enforcement is effective, I don’t believe that change is conclusive proof of its effectiveness. After all, the voluntary self-deportations might have occurred mainly for economic reasons instead of the fear of enforcement. Still, I’m sure it played some part.
Actually, I thought this idea was the most interesting part of the article:
ICE announced a pilot program to allow hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who are defying deportation orders to come forward and set up a schedule for leaving. The voluntary program would allow the immigrants not to be detained in the interim, would remove some penalties and would give them time to get their affairs in order.
ICE portrayed the move as a chance for immigrant-rights groups, who have criticized the agency for its fugitive raids, to “step up to the table” and prove they want an orderly system.
“One of the criticisms we face though, from immigrant advocacy groups and from faith-based organizations and community groups, is there’s a better way to do this – if we just gave people an opportunity to turn themselves in, they would do so,” said Jim Hayes, acting director of ICE’s Office of Detention and Removal.
You know, I’m fine with that, though I expect many of this blog’s readers may consider it too accommodating. I’m all for assisting with an orderly exit for people who come forward voluntarily and who haven’t committed any crimes (more about that in Part II of this post). It gets them out of the country, and it gets them into the system.
But whether you agree with me that this is good policy or not, I think most of you can appreciate the politics involved here. ICE just called these “immigrant rights groups’” bluff. Oh, you say illegals will self-deport voluntarily if we give them a chance? Great, let’s give them a chance!
If the amnesty activists are right, we should see thousands and thousands of aliens taking advantage of this chance to turn themselves in and deport themselves. So the country wins.
But if those hordes of grateful-but-homesick border-jumpers don’t materialize, then the open-borders crowd has major egg on its face as one of their talking points dissolves. And ICE has an excuse to get tougher on enforcement. So the country wins that way, too.
If you click through to the article, you’ll see that those “immigrant rights groups” are extremely dismissive of this idea. They did not enjoy having their bluff called, not one bit.
_________________
{Post by See-Dubya}
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Interesting idea, but too little, too late. The next administration won’t follow through. Bush should have tried this about 6-7 years ago, and maybe we’d be well on the way toward solving our problem.
Sounds good to me as long as it’s not in lieu of other enforcement measures. The most important factor IMO is employment verification and enforcement, but making it easier for people to leave only… makes it easier.
Does it make it easier for people to abuse the system for a free vacation home only to return? I’m not sure. If so, I might change my mind.
The Little Bo Peep principal?—“Leave‘em alone and they’ll come home wagging their tails behind them”.
There’s a reason its called a Bluff. Intent is absent.
Like the way the MSM treats John Edwards?
You mean, any additional crimes…
Now we need excuses to enforce existing laws?
Even if it sort of works, what then is the expectation for those who stay here? They are still illegal federal lawbreakers. Our laws have to mean something. Our laws have to be enforced.
No amnesty!
Federal law enforcement doesn’t have the right to decide which laws to enforce any more than the citizens have the right to decide which laws to break.
Failure of the Immigration Legalization
One of the more interesting findings in the figures is the rise or “hump” in the illegal immigrant population last summer. The number of less-educated, young Hispanics hit a high in August 2007. This hump may have been associated with the congressional debate over granting legal status/amnesty to illegal immigrants. . Illegals may have hoped that by coming to or remaining in the country they would qualify for the legalization. The bill failed to pass at the very end of June 2007 and although there was some talk of bringing the legislation up again, after August the size of the less-educated Hispanic population began to fall significantly. What might be called the “amnesty hump” does not seem to exist in prior years, so it is certainly plausible that this rise and fall was due to the congressional debate over amnesty and then the failure of the legislation to pass. (from the report – some editing)
Probably there will be some takers maybe even enough so that open borders fanatics can say I told you so but most of those eligible (something like 557k) don’t need a program to go home (they likely do for Christmas anyway) they can go home when they feel like, they just don’t feel like it and there isn’t much likelihood they’ll be caught either.
The problem is very large, their protections are very strong and members of the government are still traitorous.
Americans are right angry about it but thats not enough, more anti America migrant rallies and some more switchboard crashes would help.
Why am I not surprised.
The illegal steps forward and thereby takes the heat off himself. He goes about freely until he gets his free ride ‘home’. takes a break for awhile. Sneaks back into the country with nobody looking for him. Hangs out ’till he breaks the law again.—repeat
Well, I can tell you that we are arresting a lot of illegals trying to make a run for the border, the northern border. They admit to us that it is getting harder to live in the US for fear of being caught or deported based on the new approach cities are taking….enforcement, less free social services and the “e” verify system…
So, they are all working on becoming a Canadian, where they issue free social services, housing and medical…where their case will not be heard for some 2 years…Who knows how many Canadian children they can have by then?
If only we can start firing law makers, like California did with Gray Davis when he tried to push the Driver’s License issue down the throat of the voters….
Imagine, voting all those who oppose the will of the people out of office…..”WE THE PEOPLE” might start meaning something, again….
That’s what you have to do with big talkers and bullies. My wife has an employee that keeps threatening that “he has dirt and will call the owners.” I told her that she needs to dial the number and hand him the phone and say “here’s the owner-go for it” and see how fast he gets the stutters.
This shouldn’t have to be a Chess match, enforce the law, end sanctuary city policies by taking away funding.
Deport them now.
Awwwww. I hate that for them. *sniff*
Hey. Here’s a thought. If they would like to go North to Canada, let’s put Gavin Newsome to some use and have his shuttle service take them to the Northern Border. We might also follow Mexico’s lead and pass out comic books at our Southern border to tell them how to infiltrate Canada. Does anyone think it would work. What if we told them the illegal aliens were conscientious objectors to military service. They might keep them then. Right? I think we need to build on that, if our government refuses to build the border fence and enforce our immgration laws.
I think your wife should take your advice Dave. Give him the opportunity to put his money where his mouth is and then, when it is apparent that he was doing such, give him his walking papers, look at him and say, “It’s Tennessee. We’re employment-at-will. Have a nice day.”
That’s what makes it brilliant. The illegals and their enablers won’t come forward but now ICE can say, “We tried playing nice and you still didn’t co-operate.” Brilliant!
I’m not sure how many of the illegals are going to actually participate. I would have thought that had they wanted to be orderly in the first place, they would have followed the process of legally immigrating in the first place.
I would also point out that it only says they are targeting illegals that have deportation orders. What about all the others that are here that don’t?
The silver lining to our temporary, yet dismal economic cloud.
I’m a big supporter of illegal-immigation rights.
They have the right to whine and complain that the handcuffs are too tight.
They have the right to hold their breath when the fire-hose is turned on them.
They have the right to curse when they’re booted back to wherever they come from.
They have the right to keep whatever tatoos they get while they’re here.
I’ve got a huge list of rights that I believe illegals should have. What’s the big deal?
I believe it will at least say to the open borders crowd that we tried to do it your way. Give them a short time period (3 – 6 months) and then start enforceing all laws with much vigor. Use e-verify in all jobs. Take money away from sanctuary cities. Deport all illegals regardless of other crimes being committed. ICE only wants to worry about felons. I am worried about all of them. Too many become felons after being here for a while. When kids show up for school and we know the parents are illegal, ICE could easily track them down and deport them.
I wonder what kind of an “amnesty hump” we’re going to get if Obama gets elected?
It’s not like anyone’s trying to prevent anyone from crossing the border heading south right now. Exactly what affairs do they have to get in order? They’ll just walk away from their mortgage and any other financial obligations. I can’t picture them saying “Wow, I better pay off this credit card so it doesn’t affect the credit of the guy whose identity I stole.”
While the focus is on E-Verify and reduce illegal population, a door is being opened to legal immigration explosion starting with 500, 000 new green cards which will lead to 5+ million in 5 years via chain migration.
http://www.numbersusa.com/phones?ID=10363
Republicans need to fight this and make an issue in the house/senate elections (forget the presidency – he cannot pass any laws and will not enforce them anyway) I urge you all to go to http://www.numbersusa.com, the #1 friend of the American people, join them, donate money and use their Action Buffet to stop this deluge.
Remember, Legal Immigration is as much or more of a problem to the future quality of life in the USA as Illegal Immigration. It just is not that easy to talk about given its emotional appeal to the American psyche.
And here is a great book from Mark Krikorian to read on the beach (and leave it there for others) -
http://www.amazon.com/New-Case-Against-Immigration-Illegal/dp/1595230351/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217595046&sr=8-1
Better than nothing.
Better than nothing.
I would say it is more the economy and not enforcement that has caused this 11% drop. The bottom fell out of the housing market. Less yard work, less stucco work, Less framing work, etc… you get the picture. As soon as Fannie and Freddy kick back in to full gear, and the feds and their lawyers have raped enough banks, the housing market will start its recovery and the illegals will be back.
Plus a lot of the farms that these folks worked on aren’t sowing arugula anymore. They are sowing
cornfuel. A machine can harvest that.Did you read about California’s budget problems? Instead of taking a hard line with illegals, they are cutting the pay of state workers down to minimum wage. I, for one, am OUTRAGED!!
Once again, balance the budget on the backs of working people.
Giving them a chance to leave of their own free will is fine as long as we build a fence and continue to ENFORCE THE LAWS WE ALREADY HAVE.
Calling their bluff is all well & good…
The problem I see is these groups will never acknowledge the attempt ICE makes at accommidation, and those groups will then move the goal posts and default assumptions of the task.
They will do so loudly, and with a MSM assistance campaign that will make WWII propagandizement look sedate by comparison.
Then the stench of bipartisanship shall rise in all its stomach-turning glory. Our elected masters will then retch out a NEW proposal, codifying it in Law, to nueter ICE and lay hidden underpinnings for a future vomitting-out of amnesty.
The last, of course, shall be under the cover of darkness.
Part & parcel with this, those covered by that law shall have rights superior to The Citizen: held harmless for: ID theft, illegal entry, forgery, conspiracy. Indeed, not just to defraud, there are alot of things that tie into the necessity of existance as an illegal alien. Probably, there will be forgiveness, explicit or implied, (ask the activist judge) for all crimes less than premeditated murder.
Sound crazy? Look at the headlines in sanctury cities. It would simply codify in law the current practice.
I prefer the phrase going home to self deporting.
see-dubya wrote, “ICE just called these ‘immigrant rights groups’’ bluff … If the amnesty activists are right, we should see thousands and thousands of aliens taking advantage of this chance to turn themselves in and deport themselves.”
Well, if there are 10 million illegal immigrants in this country and their numbers have dropped by 11%, then that means over 1 million have already left. So what the activists predicted has already come true … the thing is, we don’t know how long it will continue or how many people total will leave.
I think Concerned Citizen also has a good point, which is that it is now easy for illegal aliens to walk way from accumulated debts — something that, a few years ago, might have kept them in the country.
mdt, your white supremacist attitude frightens me. You and Pat Buchannan and all other like-minded people are on the losing end of the argument, for one thing, and you are dangerously ignorant of our country’s history.
MDT legal immigration is not a problem. I am a legal immigrant now citizen who has served 14 years in the us military. Am I a problem?
I read as many as 11% if the illegal immigrant population has moved home during the economic slow down. Maybe ICE’s strategy will help.
Illegal Irish also moved home as Ireland’s economy improved several years ago.
We also need to enforce current laws. Fremont, Nebraska’s city council debated fines for people and businesses who sold or rented homes to illegals and gave them jobs. One would think it was the thing to do, but after long debate and news coverage, the mayor broke the tie and defeated the measure.
Two things come to mind for me. First, like you Michelle, I am very doubtful the self deportations have much to do with enforcement. It’s the economy. The housing crash killed construction jobs and straining other areas. I beleive those leaving are those illegals that did not have a steady job due to the fact they arrived recently. Those who have been with the same law breaking companies for years and 3 anchor babies are going nowhere.
Second, I support the plan to come forward. It calls the bluff of the illegal alien supporters as well as taking ammo away from the PC MSM sob stories. Frankly, I support expanding this to ALL illegals. A good plan would be to announce much a higher stepped up enforcement in the coming year along with full enforcemnet and penalties allowed by law. Then make it so any illegal who comes forward and arranges self deportation within 1 year is allowed to stay legally and get their affairs in order before leaving. This applies to businesses employing illegals. After the 1 year deadline is up, anyone caught illegally here goes straight to jail and all assets seized along with immediate deportation. The assumption being you are not just “trying to make a living” but are here for more nefarious reasons. This would at a minimum give pause to those here to work as well as allowing for an orederly exodus while allowing businesses to get new legal employees hired and trained.
sonofdy:
I’m not sure why people are drubbing MDT.
I’m somehat familiar w/#susa. As far as I can tell, they have no beef w/legal immigrants.
Objectively speaking, there is an assimilation problem. Sort of like sipping from a firehose. I don’t think a pause in all immigration for 1 to 5 yrs is a racist idea. Give us a chance to pause, rest, renew our abilities to appreciate and properly re-mint these new-comers in the image of US Citizens. (aside) Indeed, I wish we could find a way to incite the Born Citizen to become Consitutionalists.
Then invite new blood.
On what basis do you take him to task? (I might want to pile on…
).
I think Concerned Citizen is absolutely correct. You are the one who needs to go study the history of this country. Go reveiw the past durations of mass immigration into the US and compare it to the 40 years plus going now. Go look at foreign born as % of populations of past to now. In fact, why don’t you just go actually do homework before you speak with no understanding of facts. The old “white supremcist” remark is ridiculous and uncalled for. Smells of “compassionate conservative” or a simple liberal. He did not single anyone out. He is simply looking at the population growth and the impacts to our country’s limited resources. Grow up, quit using plattitudes and go read the information available at NumbersUSA.com or FAIR or any other reputable immigraiton control sites. Jesus, I can;t beleive people can be so blind they refuse to even look at facts before they speak. They throw out the same old tired crap bush used when selling us amnesty.
I don’t believe the figures. Not that I don’t think enforcement would work, but I have doubts that there has been any serious level of enforcement.
Even if we got shed of all the illegals, it ain’t over yet. The Dems still want democratic-voting immigrants and the Republicans still want cheap labor, so the next step would be for Bush or a successor to say, “See, Michelle, we did just want you wanted and got rid of the illegals. NOW WE’RE GOING TO BRING IN THE SAME PEOPLE AGAIN LEGALLY, ONLY FOUR TIMES AS MANY UNDER BILLS LIKE HAGEL-MARTINEZ. HA, HA, HA (JA, JA, JA EN ESPANOL)”
See Dubya
My daughter lives in Oklahoma how does she know Immigration Enforcement works.
Well, when Okies need to use the Emergency rooms they can actually get in and be seen in a timely manner. The “illegal population” was using the emergency rooms as their health care provider. They were clogging up the system, from it’s original purpose EMERGENCIES.
The thing I marveled at in this story, if they know ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT population is down 11%, and the also know money sent back to MEXICO is off 2.2%… If they can figure this out, how come they can not figure out how to get them out, and keep them out???
A few things about this whole discussion stike me. First, I think it’s a great move by ICE. Will mass numbers of people turn themselves in? Doubt it. But it’ll be amusing to watch “immigrant rights” groups stutter and come up with new excuses after having their bluff called.
If you don’t think it will work, why are you so bothered by the attempt?
No argument. I run reefers in and out of California, among other places. Go through the area surrounding Salinas sometime. Will it hurt the agriculture industry? Yep. Is that an excuse for not enforcing the law? Not in the least.
Maybe it’s time Americans started to remember the value of a hard day’s work. Maybe it’s time to stop pushing every kid towards college, even when they aren’t suited for it. Start pushing them into the agriculture and manufacturing sectors. There’s no shame in earning a paycheck by the sweat of your brow. Time we, as a nation, started to remember that.
Last, for now, who says asking for a 5 year stop on all immigration is racist? Give those here a chance to assimilate to American culture. A 5 year pause every 15 years or so doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. And it certainly doesn’t sound racist.
Used to be, America was described as a melting pot. People came here and bent themselves to the American culture and way of life. No more. Now they expect America to bend herself to whatever culture they bring from the homeland.
I remember in grade school, we had a teacher that brought this up. How, instead of a melting pot, she preferred to think of America as a “salad bowl”. With some feel-good nonsense about each person retaining their own culture in order to “add flavor” to the whole. Sorry, that’s a load of bovine manufactured fertilizer.
There’s nothing wrong or racist with asking for a pause every now and then to ensure those here are fully immersed in American society before we open the doors for more.
From Amarillo, heading east for Arkansas to my wife and kids.
“mdt, your white supremacist attitude frightens me. “
You jumped too soon to your attacks. Actually I am not white – why did you assume that? I am an Asian who immigrated 20 years ago following the normal H1B-EB3-5yr-naturalize path that many have taken. However, now the floodgates have opened to over 1.2m greencards per year and I can see recreating the very conditions of lawlessness, over-population, pollution, corruption that I escaped from.
sonofdy
Thank you for your service. No, you are not a problem, you are a hero. I am myself an immigrant. The links I provided describe the need to control the level of future immigration and tune it to the needs of the country and assimilation. Like it has been for last 240 years. Fairus.org and numbersusa have very well reasoned arguments.
Thanks again for your service to the country.
What would it take to cause you to leave your country? Everything there is familiar and comfortable.
Does anyone really think these illegals left their home countries because they had such deep family and neighborhood roots.
Being from a part of the world as corrupt as Jimmy Buffet’s Banana Republics, why does anyone think their morals would instantly change at the border just because the United States has particular laws? Not only are they federal felons, as disinterested as they are in assimilation, they live here the same way they lived back home.
If you looked at the book mdt was promoting you will see that its premise is about the crisis in our immigration policy, as well as the changes in our attitude towards immigrants.
We no longer demand that the immigrant become an American. If we continue this route, we will experience serious balkinization – it’s already starting.
I support this. We should halt all immigration until we sort out our many problems. I am also concerned about Muslim immigration. If 9/11 occurred in the 1940′s, do you think we would have allowed any Muslims to emigrate here? Did we allow any Japanese or Germans to emigrate to the US during WWII? Of course not! It’s common sense.
This is not about racism. This is about preserving our American values, freedoms and principles. We need to fix the mess we’re in before it is too late. It’s about saving our country.
Vomit also is a slurry with “a chunk of this, a chunk of that, retaining its individual characteristics”, but you don’t want to eat it.
LOL… Amen Heather. Amen.
Oops, should have been mdt, not concerned citizen I was referring to.
mdt, it is excellent immigrants like yourself that may be the saving grace of this country. Canada used to also have birthright citizenship. They finally eliminated that horrible policy whichhas no business in the mobile society of today. It is abused by legal (think vistior visas, I have witnessed first hand) and illegal entrants. You know who proposed and passed the reversal of birthright citizenship? It was an asian immigrant who saw teh devastating effects the policy had on his new country of Canada. If not for him, there is no way the guilt ridden white liberals would have ever had the guts to attack the policy. Hopefully, America will get more immigrants like him and you and we will also stop this ridiculous anchor baby policy (and give as a moratorium on mass immigration to catch our breath). It is so abused and nobody will do anything about it here. Thank you.
Well, there went my appetite for lunch.
Atheling said it just right.
I am NOT a racist, I’m an American who cares about preserving America !
I soooo don’t understand how any polition can support illegal activities and still think they are supporting American Values. They need to WAKE UP and smell the anger of tax paying citizens.
Weary, that was my first thought, too, which prompted my question:
from the comments by others following me, I feel the question answered, even if sondy didn’t get around to answering it…
Since Dad’s hospitalization, I have read everything here, (from his history folder this is his favorite blog). After looking around at other places I’ve noticed that except for rare exceptions those types of “shut discussion down at all costs” comments are uncommon here.
excepting 2 or 3 knuckleheads, of course.
You want to talk CHAOS?? Look at the chaos that McAmnesty wants… These CHILDREN OF GOD are coming to a city near you soon.
Los Angles 10 Most Wanted
San Diego Most Wanted
San Francisco Most Wanted
Salinas Most Wanted
Mendecino County
And McAmnesty’s great plan for God’s children marches on……..
This week, I had reason to pass the Mexican Consulate here in Houston twice – on BOTH occasions, the line stretched around the building ……………….. I’m wondering if there’s some connection, in that paperwork must be completed for the Mexican government in order to return?
Semper Fi’
DM
NOTE: I don’t know if the numbers are usually high around the consulate, as I don’t have occasion to drive that area often, but had medical appointments in the hospital center.
MDT, oh I get you, I seem to be misreading all sorts of people today.
Hey, that’s deep! More liberal nitwittery.
Oh, I get you too. It’s ok if he says these things, as long as he’s not white.
Well said. The more muslims we invite the higher the likelihood of another attack. Common sense people. However, our gov’t does not beleive this. Instead, to keep attacks to a minimum, they simply put more rules and limitations on our freedoms. Ask us to sacrifice liberties and even common conveniences in order to ensure we can continue to import more people and keep order. Long lines at security places, shakedown of little old ladies at airports to avoid necessary profiling, terror watch lists with 100K names on it, more tax $ for national security, more tax $ to pay for social services of many immigrants who have no skills, water rationing in the southwest to accomodate exploding populations etc. It is idocy. We must say enough. Use common sense when it comes to ALL immigrants. Yes to the best and brightest. No to unskilled uneducated people who will be a burden to taxpayers, And H*LL no to peopel form cultres that are in direct oppostion to our own, or those cultures who have high propensity for violence. See its simple.
The questions is how long is this experiment going to last??? A few months is fine, but if it goes on forever whats the point?
I mentioned this the other day, too. The only thing I can think of that this would accomplish (and it’s admittedly a major stretch, given the federal government’s record on immigration enforcement) is to provide some kind of grace period before a major crackdown. If people complain about the crackdown, ICE could point at this program as giving illegals a chance to leave peacefully on their own terms. But I’d be shocked if that’s the case.
mdt,
My apologies for calling you a white supremacist.
The problem is that an unhealthy majority of those who want major restrictions on legal immigration are white supremacists, or belong to groups whose ideology includes the belief that American culture is being “polluted” by immigrants who aren’t Western European Protestants.
I share your concern about limited resources. Actually, it is a curious paradox that those who support very liberal immigration policies have never publicly discussed — how does America cut her energy consumption while at the same time welcoming millions of new citizens each year?
Personally, I am not a WHITE supremacist; I am an AMERICAN supremacist. If you are of a different color but have assimilated into the American culture then you are okay in my book. But if you are refusing to become a good American, then I don’t want you here.
I believe that as a nation we should stop ALL immigration both legal and illegal for the next several decades. Resources, crime, taxes, etc…does that make me a white supremacist? not in my book…it makes me an American whose concerned about the future of my country!