Chamberlain lives: Times of London says Britain reached an “accommodation” with Moqtada al-Sadr
You know, Chamberlain had the partial excuse of not understanding Hitler’s character when he met with him at Munich. About Moqtada-al-Sadr, no one should be allowed to claim any such illusions. So what the hell?
A secret deal between Britain and the notorious al-Mahdi militia prevented British Forces from coming to the aid of their US and Iraqi allies for nearly a week during the battle for Basra this year, The Times has learnt.
…
US advisers who accompanied the Iraqi forces into the fight were shocked to learn of the accommodation made last summer by British Intelligence and elements of al-Mahdi Army, the militia loyal to Moqtada al-Sadr, the radical Shia Muslim cleric.The deal, which aimed to encourage the Shia movement back into the political process and marginalise extremist factions, has dealt a huge blow to Britain’s reputation in Iraq.
That is just unacceptable. That’s downright French. I’m going to go throw some tea in a harbor or something.
More from the Times here. As for the long-term view of the British administration of Basra, Steven Vincent was unavailable for comment.
And please note that I’ve nothing but respect for the British soldiers fighting terror around the globe. My criticism is of the politicians, like Des Browne, who decided to cut a deal with the enemy.
How about this? While the battle with Sadr was raging, the British wouldn’t even give the Iraqi Army a port-a-potty:
Brigadier-General Adel Abbas, commander of the 1st Brigade, 1st Division, complained that the British failed to provide any support for his men, even though they were taking part in clearing areas such as Hayaniya, once a no-go area for British troops.
The 1st Battalion commander recalled asking for a portable toilet only to be told that he should ask his own Defence Ministry because it had the resources.
Now that is cold.
________________
Meanwhile, here’s a memorable quote from a Times reader, responding to the second story:
It just seems that the Americans love to start ‘em but lack the heart to fight ‘em.
Ken Wyatt, Todmorden, UK
Discuss.
____________
{Post by See-Dubya. H/T to Captain Ed.}
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Categories: Iraq
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» Blaming America
The american population does not have to will to fight long wars. Too bad because this war is going to last at least 100 years weither we like it or not. And believe me I don’t, but thats NOT going to stop them attacking again and again till we give up or we kill them all.
What do you expect them to do? They have to follow Sharia law after all. I expect London will hold their first Honor stoning within the year.
It’s very hard to fight a war with proper zeal when not only the opposition but also our very own government cannot come to grips to name the enemy properly and correctly.
Then you have morons like Mr. Wyatt in the U.K. who have fallen for the propaganda disguising the true causes of the conflict.
Of course I’d like to have a conversation with Mr. Wyatt regarding the U.K.’s participation (oops- lack of it) in the recent Battle of Basra…
Sorry sonofdy, your timeline is way off.
Pelosi, Obumbler/ McCarbonTax, Reid, or their ideological children will hand the barbarians the keys long before 100yrs.
FYI:
Obumbler as the reincarnation of Chamberlain,
McCarbonTax by taxing the industry that provides the support structure and materials that run the economy which allows us to mount a defense.
It makes no difference how much McCarbonTax desires to defend the country if he, with carbon taxes, crashes the economy that provides the support for the spear’s tip.
It is unfortunate that someone who could do so well is stuck w/such a patently idiotic idea as carbon taxes.
Expecting flames from the monocular set… now.
self edit;
…taxing the industries… = …taxing out of existance industries…
I disagree! Americans can and do have the will to fight - it’s the Democrats among us who lose heart when the battles become involved and complex. They are the one’s who want to resort to the tools of diplomacy with terrorists when the battles get rough, knowing full well the very definition of a terrorist is deceit - and yes, I’m referring to Obama.
When this CRAP started, after 9/11, GWB warned this was going to be a long fight… To bad the BRITS and the MSM and the peaceniks in this country did not pay attention… The BRITS are unf*****g unbelievable(is that redundant). Mr. CHURCHILL is undoubtedly rolling over in his GRAVE. How proud he must be of his modern thinking COUNTRYMEN…
I have a suggestion:
Have an American naval Task Force seize several ships with goods bound from England. Tea or any goods that the British Government has a direct stake in would be preferable, but any goods will do.
Escort those ships back to London Harbor. Anchor them at the mouth of the harbor, evacuate the sailors on board, and sink the ships at the mouth of the harbor with Naval Cannon.
If that doesn’t send a message about how we feel about the Brits right now, nothing will.
An alternate, and less violent option would be to simply kick them out of Iraq. Just tell them their “help” is no longer required.
We should have quit Europe, NATO and the concept of allies twenty years ago. Remember the mantra “Africa for the Africans”? How about “Europe for the Europeans”, “Yankee Come Home” “Solve Your Own Problems Europe, We Don’t Care” and “Have You Ever Smelled Napalm in the Morning” ?
If we are ever going to solve the problem in Iraq I do not know; we do have a long war with mohammedanism and the dhimmi of Europe and Britain are a knife at our throats. If they are a large majority or not I do not know; but just an awful of Brits have a real hate and contempt for America and AMERICANS. A lot of LYING leftwing types will LIE and say it is just our policies the Eurotrash and Brits don’t like. BS, it is us, our life styles and individuality they don’t like.
Let us hang Moqtada-al-Sadr, destroy the al-Mahdi Army and come home.
George Washington: Beware of Foreign Entanglements
‘George Washington’s Farewell Address. 17 September 1796.’
ArizonaNeanderthal: The Hell With Europe
—
His Messiahship be mocked
Allie OOP OOP be praised
What will it take for them to change their sniffy opinions? Routine Picadilly beheadings and stonings of their native countrymen? What losers. Good luck to ya mates. You’ll need it.
One more reason that I remain an isolationist.We have no friends.
Perhaps you’ve forgotten, but the UK started it with us. Who ended up finishing it? Oh, right: Those Yankee bastards you’ll slam left and right until you need them to save your ass.
#9 AN
Thank you for saving me the time to look up:
George Washington: Beware of Foreign Entanglements
‘George Washington’s Farewell Address. 17 September 1796.’
ArizonaNeanderthal: The Hell With Europe
Just why did we go to Bosnia?
Why do we still have troops in Europe?
Let them spend their own-
socialist $$$$ to “defend” themselves!
Mark Steyn _AMERICA ALONE_ asked the same ??? in his great book…..
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? (over)
NO, NO, NO…
We did not start it. Islamofascists started it. Do not fall for their propaganda.
We do need to finish it… with extreme prejudice…
Must learn to preview… and edit.
Sorry, Oklahoma.
Meant to type UK.
The bad news is that Britain and Europe are in a race to see who will go Islamic first (see Steyn’s America Alone), and it is quite possible that Britain is now in the lead. We really cannot count on them anymore. In another generation at most they will be gone, braying to Mecca like their compatriots in the mid-East.
We rescued them and the Continent twice. That’s it, no more.
The good news, however, is that many Englishman may simply be working on establishing their anti-American bonifides — that way to get priority when they apply to emigrate to some country of the late, lamented Commonwealth (e.g. Canada or Australia, assuming they themselves haven’t succumbed). Or conceivably to America itself.
Moqtada-al-Sadr (see Juan Cole or any other reliable source about Iraq) is a politician just like Maliki. They’re both Shiites mixing religion and politics. They both control militias. Both have had their militias shoot at US soldiers from time to time.
Why should this be so “shocking”? Right here in America we have some courts in the legal system and such “American” institutions as Tyson turning against their own people, the legal system as a whole and the U.S. constitution in favor of the virus that has invaded the body of our nation. Don’t wait past the point of no return for the sake of PC.
America tried to stay neutral in WWll and when they realized, too late, that they couldn’t remember what happened!
America, you must wake up!!
Wake up America!
Wow….this is BETRAYAL. Shame-worthy. What an embarrassment to the British. As far as the quote from the single digit IQ fellow from the UK; it need not be dignified by response.
Wrong (nice attempt to hide the fact that you source was think progress btw) Maliki is the legal leader of Iraq. Moqtada-al-Sadr was leading a militia trying to overthrow the legal leader of the country. Maliki’s “malitia” is the Iraqi army. Moqtada-al-Sadr’s militia was partly trained, funded and armed by Iran. In fact Moqtada-al-Sadr was in iran when his little revolt kicked off.
So your point is a=b, thus we should just skip along merrily?
Nuke them. It’s cheaper.
well done!! I agree 100000%.
Here’s another interesting article from the same source. It seems Republicans helped Saddam develop biological weapons.
lgm: yes we know, will you next tell us water is wet? Did you bother reading the reason or did you just see a chance to bash republicans and blindly proceded to attempt to bash them?
‘I understand you, Ken; you need something to do whilst standing in line for the dole’
signed,
Iva Biggun
Prickly Bottom, Itchinhurts
LGM:
I don’t give a rip WHO helped who make the mess in Iraq. The relevant matter now is what to do from here. According to Islam, you are an infidel (as am I), you deserve to die (as do I), they get bonus points for sending you to your death early.
I choose to fight. You can submit if you wish.
Secondly: Would you please learn from history. History has shown over and over again, socialism DOES not work. It never has, it never will. Your socialist dreams (have the state take care of you) are guaranteed to fail.
crap; I should have written ’standing in the queue…’
now you’ll all know I’m not a real Brit.
And that’s been the point all along lgm.
We know Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, because we gave them to him. So your argument that we went to war under false pretenses is BS. He did have them. And since we gave him plenty of warning before invading, he had plenty of time to move them to Syria before hand.
And from the time we invaded until we put Patraeus in charge, we made a mess of things. And with our humane war mentality of winning hearts and minds etc, we continue to screw it up in Iraq and Afghanistan.
And now we have the Brits turning on us too, we might as well fight to win for a change.
But thanks to the dhimmicrats/RINOs we have running things, we won’t.
Whenever libtard guano machine starts his comment with “here’s an interesting…”, you know it’s going to be something as banal as his thought processes.
Yawn.
conservativesRus said (#28):
But you should. Republicans are still considered credible politicians and are running for office. Vote the bumblers out before they do it again. (That rhymes with McCain if you’re a Brit).
Count on mistakes costing lives, to be made while fighting a war. We get angry and/or grieve when it happens, but we’ve learned that you can’t have a war w/o mistakes. Most of us here on this site believe in being committed to winning the war once engaged. It was good that Britain came into the war with us and a disappointment when they backed out. Great Britain has weakened ‘full stop’. Maybe she’ll rise again…..
Politicians have always wanted to run wars, so what’s new about that. Thank the Almighty that in the face of outright hatred GWB has the smarts and bull headedness to let the commanders make the ‘go no-go’ decisions. Call him McShame or whatever you want but John McC will do the same.
AND..I appreciate Times reader Ken Wyatt’s comment.
To this American, it’s a dare!
I’m beginning to think that Chamberlain better represented the true British sensibility than Churchill did.
Churchill was an anomaly. He appeared at the right place, and at the right time, with the right attitude. However, during the 1930’s, when he warned the British about Hitler, he was relegated to the back bench, scoffed at, and labeled a “warmonger”. It wasn’t until things really started to heat up when the Brits turned to him.
And what was it about Churchill that made him different?
He was half American!
Reagan is dead, bush sr is retired and rumfield has retired. So since none of the so called “bumblers” are in office or in some cases even alive, who are we voting out again?
sonofdy, that would be kennedy, frank, rangel, etc, etc
Actually, atheling, I believe Churchill was 3/4 American, since his dad’s mother, if I remember correctly, was a Vanderbilt.
Regarding the Brits…I think you might be on to something.
After all, the Brits did throw Churchill out on his rear before WWII had completely ended, and voted in Clement Attlee - Labor (for all intents and purposes, socialists).
Wighttrash: I honestly think he wants us to vote Reagan, rumsfield, and bush sr out of office :rolls eyes:
I agree, sonofdy, it’s just so easy to bait lgm. I mean, he was speaking of bumblers.
Political Correctness has been waterboarded up our noses for so long, we no longer know right from wrong.
It is wrong to kill innocent people, it is NOT wrong to kill people who try to kill us.
We are allowed to defend ourselves against animals who’s only goal is to destroy us. And if we don’t find the will soon, they will succeed.
We had better learn to shoot to kill or it is all over for us. Mr. Nice Guy needs to be history. Arizona Neaderthal said it all in #9 !!
I know it’s a Times story, straight from London. I find it incredulous. Fantastically unbelievable. Imagine your best friend turning his back on you right when the guy on the next bar stool takes a swing at you!
As a both a military spouse and someone who comes from the history field and has taught history, there are a couple of factors that point to why America no longer has the will to fight or embrace its superpower role:
1. Americans would rather immerse themselves in meaningless television drivel like American Idol than think about the “important stuff.”
2. Dumbing down of our school children. If you can’t critically think, are liberally indoctrinated, and just blindly follow a political party (cough cough Dems) like lgm, even wars become secondary.
3. Corporate philosophy overtaking military objectives. The Air Force is being overtaken by how to build a better uniform and installing yes men rather than actual leaders.
4. Political interference in military campaigns. We saw it in Vietnam, we’re seeing it again in Iraq.
5. Liberal misinformation and stereotyping of the military by folks like the NY Times, John Kerry, and lgm.
6. As long as lgm sees the military in a one-dimensional way (as a threat to his party’s socialist rule) than there will always be accommodation for “enemies” both foreign and domestic.
7. American voter apathy. Many people don’t vote… and they get a government that is both self-serving and dysfunctional in nature.
8. Culture shift. When the culture starts shifting from traditional to one that ascribes to materialism, self-esteem, me, me, me… I’m important so screw you, PC enforcement, loose family structure, passive parenting, kids with no role models, and loose morals (sexual freedom, rampant STD’s, and increasing numbers of illegitimate children) then of course being American and what it means starts to hold less sway as we’re seeing with the loosening of European identity.
9. One World Order. This is where we’re heading, where we’re all one big happy family, no borders, no problems, pure utopia. Yay!
10. The military is beneath many Americans as a career… especially for people like lgm. They can do our fighting, serve the country before their own self-interests, but it won’t matter when people like lgm look down on service members like my husband for having the nerve to support a war he doesn’t “like.”
11. Americans are becoming more and more fickle, restless, impatient, and easily bored. If they cannot be patient, pay attention for 5 minutes, then of course they’re never going to be satisfied with long wars. Life has become so much easier with technology, convenience, and the media doing Americans’ critical analysis for them.
I’m not very happy with the political expediency that the Labor Party politicians have given the Iraq War. They’re treating the war like a game. There are many fine British military members who are doing the best they can. It’s the politicians who are messing up things, followed by British citizens who aren’t actively engaged because they have their hands in the treasury which has guaranteed their apathy (social welfare state). They’ve been bribed into supporting a party who doesn’t care about anything but selling the country to the EU and undercutting its military. Some achievement.
It’s happening in America right now. If liberals and other misguided Americans think that they’re going to get their social benefits for free, well it will come at the cost of industry and the military who ensure their freedom. In a deficit, there isn’t the ready access to cash like there used to be so things will be cut (like the military) so that Americans can get their nanny state benefits.
If Americans don’t think it will happen, take a good look at the UK and their military and ask yourself a question: why is the British military a shadow of its former self and why is the UK having so much trouble funding its own health care system?
Moqtada-al-Sadr is more terrorist/militant than ‘politician’.
Newsflash: Juan Cole is an ignorant twit who doesn’t know squat about Iraq. He’s an unhinged douchebag and a shill for Islamic terrorists, worldwide.
He’s crapped all over this country and the military with his nihilist screeds and even ‘justified’ the murder of an American journalist (Steven Vincent)as part of an ‘honor killing’.
Read his widow’s response here:
http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/002697.html
You need better sources.
Really? Kofi Anan, the Russians, French, and Germans helped RE-ARM Saddam post Desert Storm, courtesy of the “oil for food” scam:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Iraq/wm217.cfm
Channeling lgm for a minute,
so, using your process, should we vote out all the democrats since Clinton gave ballistic missile technology to the Chinese?
Just saying.
emjem24:
Good analysis - spot on!
Indeed, granite. The 20th century has seen the demise of Europe: socialism, atheism, and now, Islam.
What we are seeing in Britain is a result of their choosing socialism over self government. To quote Churchill, “They have sown the wind, let them reap the whirlwind”.
Agreed atheling, only problem is, the winds keep whirling our way. We have got to stay the course on fighting terrorists who proclaim Islam wants us dead. We have to make them dead instead.
Atheling:
Thanks. I wonder what social historians (historians who study historic societal trends) will think of America in a hundred years. I taught for a couple of years and I’ve never seen such cluelees parents (or kids). There were redeeming examples but save them, man… you had to hold these kids’ hands to get them to learn.
I see what’s going on in Great Britain and it’s scary. It was a once great nation with a spine that gave in to socialists (or Social Liberals) which is becoming the overall trend in Europe. What Great Britain did to its own military is shaming and should give voters who care about the military in the US pause for reflection.
History never lies…. or denies…
History may show 2008 as the year that america began to fall apart.
Gang, I have served with the British Army in Northern Ireland, Italy and Desert Storm. Rarely have I found a braver or more honorable group of men and women. So, stop it.
If you want to blame someone, blame the leaders. Blame the governments. The Brits are doing the same.
#25 lgm said:
lgm, I noticed that your linked article failed to even mention who the big fish really were, the countries that actually supplied the most WMD material to pre-1990 Iraq:
The United States and “Republicans” aside, it is evident that the entire WORLD was involved in armament and weaponry sales in the 1970s and 1980s. In addition, it is also evident that the entire western world was unified in not allowing Iran to gain an upper edge in their war with Iraq, and possibly allowing the Mullah-led regime to gain any kind of control over Iraq’s and Saudi Arabia’s oil fields.
It is also duly noted that you and Rusty seen to be obsessed with only US involvement during this eight year war. This is an interesting fact when, measured against the raw tonnage of material that other countries sold to Iraq, the US was actually a small player during this episode of Middle East history.
I’ll leave you with this note. Of all the European and Middle Eastern countries that sold more material tonnage to Iraq than the US, it was only the US who shared its satellite technology with Iraq, when it became evident that their chemical strikes against the Iranian military were not only way off target, but also killing Iranian civilians.
Other nations involved did nothing to correct the civilian situation.
I always supported the British and thought of her as an ally. I loved the guys and gals I worked with in the Special Investigation Branch of the British Army. Now I do not know what to think if this is true. If true, the agreement was obviously done with the Okie Dokie of the British Government. All I can say is whoever in the British Government approved the agreement should have their ass whipped. Whoever you are, you are worse than a scumbag. I think we, the USA, should reevaluate our position with the British Government if the Chicken-Sh*t person who approved that cowardly agreement is still in the government.
Oh, yeah. That “agreement” with Sadr is going to work out great. Just like this one did. (It’s with John Cleese so it’s a bit silly, too!)
1776
1812
1918
1941
Have you been fitted for your Burkha yet Ken?
I really wish I could get worked up about this but I just can’t seem to “muster the bluster”…lol
The UK is a sovereign nation that will look out for it’s own interests as best it can….this is not so much betrayal as expediency. And it really isn’t any of our business. We can state our opinions on this blog but our objections don’t amount to much as far as the UK government goes. It makes about as much sense as the congress filiing lawsuits against the middle east for price gouging….
And as an answer to Ken Wyatt?…..The american govt. is more prone to starting wars than the amreican public…
On August 5th, 2008 at 1:52 pm, Bigurn said:
I agree, Save some Blame for the BBC too.
What has happened to the UK should serve as a cautionary tale for the USA. They are simply not the country they used to be and it is because they have allowed the socialists/multiculturalists/social engineers to have their way with the country. The Politically correct nonsense that has been crammed down their throats for so long has resulted in many British just tossing their hands up and getting out.
“An unprecedented 196,000 left the country last year…The exodus is countered by high levels of immigration, with the Office for National Statistics saying that 574,000 people came to live in Britain between June 2005 and 2006.”
This is what happens when the appeasers and socialists get a foothold, this is yet another reason to defeat the likes of Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama and hold the government we elect accountable.
Now refresh my memory, but who keeps having to clean up the mess of the remnants of the British and French empires? I think we are still dealing with the policies and greed of the Europeans from hundreds of years ago.
The basic truth of England has been that of a pretend nation that is only as successful as its colonial empire fights for it. Its most famous general Montgomery was a coward who found every available excuse to not engage his enemy. The defenders of his memory were his British soldiers who knew full well that he sacrificed Canadians, Aussies and Americans as freely as he was stingy with Brits. And they lionized him for it.
We no longer have an ally in Britain.
Bill Grant:
Very true. I don’t wish to blame the British soldier, but their political (and some top military) leaders.
Back in WWI, it was said that the British soldiers were “lions led by donkeys”. I am sure the same holds true today.
Hoo yah! But what about your navy old chap….. the navy… ??
Missing is the link to the companion story.
Forgive my snipping most of the news item, I can’t get the linker to work.