On August 5th, 2008 at 10:17 am, toubabou said:

answered:

On August 5th, 2008 at 11:05 am, Christian Soldier said:

and:

On August 5th, 2008 at 11:24 am, On-my-soap-box said:

See, I’ve always thought a 9mm lacked stopping power.

Remember that the military has to use round-nose, full metal jacket ammo, per Geneva Convention rules. A modern +P hollowpoint probably would have done a better job. It also doesn’t tell you where they hit her. Even a 45 ACP into your hand isn’t going to kill you.

Thus, the military in general plays with bullets that are made to wound, not kill, and there wasn’t enough info in the clip you posted to determine anything about the efficacy of 9mm vs. other calibers.

That said, I’ll take mine in 45 ACP.

But the way, I reload my 9′s with 115gr Hornaday jacketed hollow points, 5.8gr of Unique. This is a very accurate load for my Hi-Power.

On August 5th, 2008 at 6:09 pm, John Ansell said:
Does she get virgins when she dies?

Naaa, she gets to do the cooking.

. . . who want to take us back to the Dark Ages, so they can . . . hide their candles under a burka, I guess. Weren’t we just talking about the superior abilities of women vs. men when……

MORE: See, I’ve always thought a 9mm lacked stopping power.

Not really . . . it’s all about shot placement and bullet selection. “The torso” is pretty non-specific, and the torso isn’t the size of a postage stamp. There are lots of non-lethal, non-debilitating places to be hit.

Also — he wasn’t using hollow points. That matters

FWIW — I handload, and part of my quality control regimen is to measure the velocity of samples of my reloads. I’ve found that my 9mms (2 SIGS) will shoot 124 grain bullets just about as fast as my .357 Mags (2 S & Ws, 1 K-frame, 1 L-frame) will shoot 125 grain bullets (the .357s have 3 and 2.5 inch barrels, respectively).

Oh — and I’ve calibrated my reloads against factory ammo — including premium self-defense stuff. They’re roughly equal. So if you say the 9mm isn’t an adequate self-defense cartridge, then a .357 Mag in a short barrel (less than the 8″ – 10″ barrels used by ammo manufacturers to gather descriptive stats for their loads) isn’t either. At least with 125 grain bullets.

On August 5th, 2008 at 12:38 pm, abstractmind said:

When i was taught firearm usage, we were taught to aim for center mass. Is that not still taught?
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Just saying, if he aimed center mass, and depending on where the other people were in proximity, he might not have had a direct line of fire for anything lethal, without putting the others in the room directly in harms way.

If you were trained in the military then you have had some seriously bad instruction. Or have we become the British Navy now???? You should have been trained to shoot upside-down, or right-side up, or with your primary appendage incapacipated, or with obstacles in your way.

Center of mass is for law-enforcement. But the main order of business is….. you shoot THROUGH ANYBODY (PFC/Commanding Officer/best friend/wife/etc) in order to kill what you are trying to eliminate.