Saddle up: Saddleback Forum open thread; Obama on abortion: “Above my pay grade,” attacks Clarence Thomas
For those of you watching the Rick Warren/Obama/McCain show tonight, here’s your open thread.
Watch online here.
Wake me up if anything interesting happens.
Like I said before, I’m not holding my breath…
***
Obama on abortion: It’s “above his pay grade.” What the…
Obama on which Supreme Court justice he wouldn’t have nominated: Clarence Thomas.
Disturbingly, commenters note, the Saddleback audience cheered.
RACIST!
(Update): Allah’s got the near-gaffetastic video of Obama’s Thomas remarks.
Mark Levin: “On Obama’s best day he can’t hold a candle to Thomas’s intelligence.”
***
McCain on when babies are entitled to human rights: “At the moment of conception…this presidency will have pro-life policies.”
Define marriage: “A union between a man and a woman. One man and one woman.”
Warren asks about California marriage preservation proposition and Calif. Supreme Court. “California Supreme Court was wrong.”
See what others have said
Note from Michelle: This section is for comments from michellemalkin.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with or endorse any particular comment just because I let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with my terms of use may lose his or her posting privilege.
Comments
You must be logged in to post a comment.
 |
Choosing Life and Beating the Odds
February 11, 2012 11:50 AM by Doug Powers
32 CommentsObama’s fraudulent abortion mandate “accommodation” Updated: Prez condemns “cynical” opposition
February 10, 2012 10:05 AM by Michelle Malkin
245 Comments‘To Stop the Multiplication of the Unfit’
February 10, 2012 09:06 AM by Michelle Malkin
195 CommentsNancy Pelosi Explains Why Obama Flip-Flopped on Super PACs
February 9, 2012 10:08 PM by Doug Powers
50 Comments
Report: Solyndra Sold Assets Cheap to Entity with Close Ties to Investors
February 9, 2012 10:08 AM by Doug Powers
49 CommentsFormer Democrat Rep. Regrets Vote for Obamacare Due to Contraceptive Coverage
February 7, 2012 03:40 PM by Doug Powers
75 Comments
Middle Class Payroll Tax Cut Extension Comes Courtesy of Mortgage Fees on Home Buyers
February 6, 2012 01:36 PM by Doug Powers
35 CommentsHiring Spree in NYC
February 1, 2012 02:47 PM by Doug Powers
43 CommentsFirst, they came for the Catholics
January 31, 2012 10:51 PM by Michelle Malkin
181 Comments
Categories: Abortion,Barack Obama,John McCain
Pundit & Pundette
» Obama's war on conscience, cont'dBabalu Blog
» Greece is BurningBetsys Page
» Cruising the WebPatterico
» NYT hails the safety net: Poor hardest hitDaily Caller
» Inside Media Matters: Sources, memos reveal erratic behavior, close coordination with White House and news organizationsAmSpecBlog
» Weekend Political Wrap-UpJustOneMinute
» I Guess I'm Still Stuck On Stupid
It’s not, Scrib – it a “commonwealth”.
But I think you have a point; I bet the McCain camp would pay to have the full forum, including Obama’s… um…uh…performance broadcast on national TV every two weeks or so.
I’m wondering if McCain will keep pounding Obama like that to the national electorate. He showed he can trap and pummel The One into the ropes, but he’ll have to keep going for the KO.
WooHoo! I did post #700! Wait till I write the folks back home!
Following the tradition of Major League Baseball, we’ll let you keep the keyboard you did it with.
jsmiddleton4 please stop undoing the work that McCain put in last night. I certainly agree that McCain is a better prospect as POTUS than Obama, but my problem has been that there are things about McCain that made me not want to vote for him either. This ‘forum’ certainly made me reconsider my stance, but when I see statements you made above that I HAVE to vote for McCain purely to block Obama, and that if I don’t then it is my fault that the US becomes a socialist disaster, then I immediately start reverting back to my prior stance that I should not vote for either if I don’t wholeheartedly support them. Particularly when it comes to immigration and amnesty. You are not doing yourself any favors at all by making those statements, because that has indeed put me back to the stance that I am not voting for either (although certainly voting R at lower levels).
I’d go more for a “keep the football metaphor” BackC.
But I think I’ve at least paid for the keyboard. By the time the major hardware is paid off, it’ll be time to upgrade again!
Think I just might Frankenstein up my next PC myself.
Yup, nyc – when your man is solidly giving people some reasons to vote for him you don’t need to “run interference” for him. You get outta his way.
(And I give myself another point for popping in yet another football metaphor.)
Purplepeep, so “Are you ready for some football?” would be a rhetorical question.
I enjoy football, but I’ve been to so many baseball games that for a long time I thought the last two words of the national anthem were “Play ball!”
So nyc and purple if YOU are somehow offended or not encouraged you’ll let the country go into the hands of a socialist leftist like Obama?
You know we fault the left and its voters all the time for the “What’s in it for me/give them what they want” mindset. How is your position any different?
Somehow just who Obama is and what his politics will do to our individual freedom, pocket books and possible worldwide instability seems to be escaping several of you.
No one is undoing anything McCain may continue to gain in popularity and support as we learn more and more about McCain and Obama. You both seem to be missing the point. I am not posting about McCain. I am posting about the danger that electing Obama represents.
So do you who want to criticize me then think that it would be okay that Obama gets the White House?
Excuse me? I believe amnesty is a HUGE mistake, and I’d like you to explain how that equates to a ‘what’s in it for me’ attitude.
I get so pissed off at people like you that threaten others who don’t agree with them. That is a DEMOCRAT tactic, and shame on you for lowering yourself to their standards. Congrats fool, you’ve put me right back to where I was – I’m not voting for either McCain or Obama (not that I’d ever vote Obama). Not unless McCain changes his stance on shamnesty.
I WILL however, as I said, vote Republican at lower levels, because fortunately the POTUS is not a power unto him/herself, and Republicans at lower levels will ensure that does not happen.
So we’re back to over reacting instead of making a point. That took about as long as the last time.
So if you don’t vote for McCain and Obama wins because of folks who opt out of voting for McCain cause he’s not conservative “enough”, do you think non-voters don’t have any responsibility because they didn’t vote?
Not voting for McCain is positioning the left to win. You seem to think that is some kind of personal attack. It is not, it is a simple statement of reality.
The question is asked, is unanswered but it is THE question. Are you okay with Obama as President? If not the only way to make sure he does not have a shot at the White House is to vote for his competition. Opting out, not voting because you don’t like everything McCain stands for does not then you get a pass on being partially responsible for the likelihood of an Obama Presidency.
I don’t care if you like that or not. I don’t care if you think that is some kind of personal attack or not. Your feelings do no make one iota of difference to me nor the reality of the upcoming election.
Third party candidates don’t win. Write-in candidates don’t win. It will be Obama (maybe Hilary) or McCain. Not voting for one is in essence voting for the other.
If you think Obama will be an acceptable alternative that is of course your opinion. But if you view his political views as dangerous and harmful as I do, then regardless of your view of yourself, this election boils down to voting for McCain.
It is just about imposable for someone to actually threaten someone on an anonymous internet forum. regardless, nothing that was said to you threatened you personally. It was just pointing out that there will be genuine repercussions for putting a dangerous incompetent like Barack Obama in to office.
I hope you don’t take this as a “threat” as well, but it is downright infantile to formulate your decisions that way.
I think the point they’re trying to make is that most people would rather be led than pushed, and putting things in terms of they have to or need to do things a certain way turns them off.
I was a lot later getting on the internet than I might have been because it rubbed me the wrong way when Bill Gates made the remark that the day would come when people would have to use computers to function in modern society. I didn’t like being told I had to do something, and resisted it for many years. What finally brought me around was friends pointing out advantages to having internet access, and I began wanting those adavantages for myself. It’s an old saying but true, “You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.”
That is essentially voting for Obama. Did we not learn anything in the last 2 election cycles? NOT voting has dire and unwanted consequences that cost way more than what is purchased by the patting one’s self on the back because you “sent a message” or “voted your conscious”.
McCain is conservative. Is he as conservative as Romney, Duncan Hunter or Jeff Flake? No probably not. Is McCain conservative enough to be a worthwhile and solid answer to the left? YES. Without hesitation.
Our vote this time is not about us as individuals. I don’t care how much some folks don’t like that. This election is a clear choice between socialist-socialism and NOT socialist-socialism. This is not the election to make it about anything other than voting a clear and loud “NO” to the leftist ideas that we are sinking into.
I think it’s a safe bet you wont make it to the McCain cheerleading finals. Throwing a worry-filled temper tantrum when your team scores a touchdown is not a good idea.
(dang, at least 3 football refs I got in this thread!)
JSM, you just may not be particularly expereinced in politics, campaigns and elections to know what’s helpful at which time & place. I suspect your wrong focus may be due that.
You can trust me that if you’re trying to help McCain win, he himself would reply with “Thanks, but no thanks”. You’d be more helpful licking stamps.
Basking in the afterglow of Obama’s embarassment v. McCain’s tour de force last night is optional, but I’d recommend it. Certainly beats panicked, feverish and ill-advised rants.
Relax and enjoy a nice Sunday eve instead.
Sorry but this election and the difference between these two candidates in terms of their political views is a “have to, need to, must do” kind of thing. Anyone who could vote for McCain but instead sits this election out, votes but does not support McCain, has to understand this is a big deal and not some run of the mill issue.
It is time for those of us who are conservatives to quit acting so all “special” and demand our way or the highway like we are 12 years old and then end up with Obama as President.
What is at stake is huge. People who act like it might be okay if Obama wins just to whatever…. I’m sorry but those folks are taking a risk that is unacceptable.
This election is the easiest election I have participated in and I am 54 years old. NOT voting for Obama is the easiest decision I have made in a long time.
Ah, I see.
Did anyone answer my question about is it okay that Obama wins the Presidency?
One small thing that galls me is the people who bash McCain for saying “my friends” too often.
Rash FatblobRush Limbaugh says “my friends” quite often on his show as well, and he’s definitely no more my “friend” than is McCain.But then there are so many people willing to line up behind Limbaugh chanting “mega-dittos, Rush!” at every opportunity.
Kinda like Osama Obama’s little lambs, in fact.
Boy do you have that wrong. Hmmm, attempting to equate folks who listen to a radio show and a radio host with a person running for President? Really? It would be okay with me if you decided to stay home and not cast your vote for Obama.
I have no intention of voting for Obama under any circumstances.
I find Limbaugh as tiresome and self-important as Obama. Just because he is closer to my views ideologically — in most cases — doesn’t mean I have to like his act.
Or is slavish devotion to a right-wing blowhard now a prerequisite for anyone opposing Obama?
Don’t you DARE tell me that by not voting for McCain I am voting for Obama. To vote for Obama would mean I have to select his name for POTUS, and I am NOT doing that. This is America buddy, and I have the right to vote for who I think would be best as POTUS, not who I think is the lesser of two bad choices. And yes you did make a threat, and a very specific one; you said, with no uncertainty, that it would be my fault if the US went socialist because I didn’t vote McCain. There is no question that is a threat. And don’t try and turn this into ‘but it’s not a threat of violence blah blah’, you know very well what I mean, and that is exactly what you intended.
I can use the same threat on you. When the US undergoes economic collapse, your rights as an American citizen come second to those of ex-illegal aliens, when most of what you earn is taxed to pay for the tens of million of ex-illegal aliens now able to register for benefits and full medical care, it will be YOUR fault for voting for McCain, using your own ‘logic’.
Get my point now?
Here’s some more of your logic for you. It is YOUR fault that I am considering not voting McCain now, therefore it is YOUR fault if Obama gets in, and you will now have to live with that responsibility.
Yes, ridiculous isn’t it. I agree, but that’s exactly what you were just doing to me.
Think before you post. You have certainly made me reconsider my position, and made me recall why I was not keen to vote McCain in the first place. Therefore it’s YOUR fault. *rolls eyes*
By not voting for McCain, you are voting for Obama. If you don’t like that, that’s just too bad. But that’s the way it is.
This is what apparently you have not learned from seeing the long term impact of the last two elections there nyc….
Throwing a worry-filled temper tantrum
Ah, I see.
We know it must be more than OK with you, JSM. What with your tirades driving voters away from McCain, I wouldn’t be suprised if Obama puts you in charge of his “Get Out The Vote” drive.
If you are anti-Obama and pro-McCain you are very obviously working cross-purpose against yourself.
I don’t think you’re knowingly doing it as an Obama plant here, but rather inexperience and emotionalism just gets the better of you. More’s the pity.
But you might earn a personally signed BHO “Thank You” note, if that’s of some consolation to you.
Sorry but I have no idea what you mean. If you feel threatened more power to you. And if you were going to vote for McCain but now are not and that is the level of your commitment and decision making process, I have a bridge I’d like to well you.
purlp….
Were you trying to say something there? I’m not quite sure what if so. I’m letting emotions get the best of me? How’s that?
Its emotions that have led me to conclude that this is a two party country and third parties and write-in candidates don’t win Presidential elections?
jsmiddleton how can you not get it – you’re the one who made the ridiculous argument in the first place!
My guess is same as PurpleDeep (yes I know it’s peep), that you’re an Obama plant.
Not hard to figure out. When you drive votes away from McCain who do figure gets the benefit?
Actually I should probably thank you jsmiddleton4 for reminding me what’s important – the USA. I believe shamnesty could be one of the worst things that could happen to this country, and as such cannot in good conscience vote for a pro-shamnesty POTUS. I almost found myself overlooking this vital point after McCains compelling session at Saddleback, but you’ve reminder me very clearly why I was reluctant to vote McCain previously. Obama of course is out of the question – always was.
I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he’s not thinking rationally. Let’s see if he can handle my question as to who benefits
in driving voters away from McCain.
heh, good luck with that Purple
Sorry but nothing about participating in the voting process to make sure someone like Obama does not win the White House is ridiculous. What part of that is ridiculous?
What is ridiculous is folks who in some misplaced sense of importance will use this election to send a message or some other goofy agenda regarding politicians being consevative “enough” and in doing so run the risk of putting the likes of Obama/Hilary in the White House.
The best chance we have of keeping the left out of the White House is voting for McCain. If you don’t like that, oh well. Your feelings don’t change the facts of the matter.
Be a real conservative and vote libertarian. McCain and Obama are flip-flops that will sign amnesty in no time.
Who is driving votes away from McCain purp…?
As has been said if the 2 of you who seem to be having issues were going to vote for McCain and now have decided not to because of little ole me, well that doesn’t say much for either of your decision making process nor commitment does it?
The question I have asked is still unanswered by either of you. You have two practical choices for President. Those 2 choices will be the Democratic Candidate and the Republican Candidate. If you don’t vote for one, you are essentially voting for the other. This we have learned in several election cycles.
So by not voting for McCain, you will essentially be voting for Obama.
So are eithe of you are okay with an Obama Presidency?
If yes, please don’t vote for McCain.
If no, then get yourself to the voting booth, vote for McCain and encourage as many people as you can to do the same.
Its not that complicated and if you feel threatened by the reality of the setup for this coming Presidential election, I’d say you have “issues”.
Pretty much the case. Like it or not.
You can ask the folks who note they are being driven away from voting for McCain.
But you’re still avoiding the question at hand:
When voters are driven away from voting for McCain who derives the benefit?
ffs.. jsm, I did not say participating in the voting process was ridiculous and you know it, I said that your argument was ridiculous that if I don’t vote for someone I don’t wholeheartedly support, then it is MY fault that the other guy (Obama) gets in. If Obama gets in, it’s probably because the majority of Americans voted for him. Your argument is that it would be my fault. Yes, that IS ridiculous.
What is ridiculous is folks who in some misplaced sense of importance blame others for Obama winning when that person didn’t even vote for him.
Just a suggestion, but maybe you should direct your arguments at people who are pro-Obama?
To answer your question to PurpleP, who is driving votes away from McCain? – You are.
It says a lot for our commitment to the USA that we are not willing to settle for someone we believe is not right for POTUS. What does it say about your commitment to the USA that you are willing to compromise your country because of someone you’re not going to vote for anyway. I question where exactly YOUR loyalties lay.
Again, to vote for Obama, I would have to check his name on the ballot. I am not doing that.
You clearly are a traitor to this country, willing to let it be destroyed by one person in favor of another. How does that give you the right to make any accusations whatsoever. It doesn’t. You’re just like a foaming-at-the-mouth dem.
Because that perfect person is just around the corner.
Gee, better not “attack” him, he too might not be able to get his head around the fact that the viable candidates are Obama or McCain.
At some point we have to make a choice, do we prevent the bolsheviks from taking the white house and fight the latino socialist mob or do we let the bolsheviks take the white house and fight the latino socialist mob? A great conservative once said, If we can agree 70% of the time we can work together on the other 30%. The question should be do you agree with McCain 70 or more percent of the time? If you lived through the fecklessness of the Carter years if you witnessed the appeasement the dismantling of the military the building up of china during the Clinton years this election choice is an easy one to make. We could somewhat afford to make those kinds of mistakes in those days but it’s a very different, much more dangerous world we see today, can we afford to stand on principle over one or two issues, I think not.
At least you made a good argument tgusa, and did not tell me that it is my fault if the USA turns socialist and that I must effectively be a Obama supporter if I don’t vote McCain. Amazing what a difference what you said is to what jsmiddleton4 or Bill said, even though you’re essentially saying the same thing.. sort of.
NOW do you get it, jsmiddleton?
Now I’m a traitor to the country? Wow nyc. Now there’s an argument that contains some kind of substance hey?
If folks who could vote for McCain do not and instead by their inaction allow Obama to win, yes those folks, folks who did nothing, will be partly responsible for electing Obama.
I think that everyone should vote for a canidate based on what that person says and not what one of the commenters here says.
Yes jsmiddleton, I was illustrating the ridiculousness of what you were accusing me of if I don’t vote for McCain. But since you continue to push voters like me away from McCain, which is exactly what you are doing, then you are guilty of exactly what you are accusing me of.
No sir, not avoiding any question at hand. I disagree with your premise.
By pointing out this is a serious election and the choices are such that folks need to do whatever they can to keep Obama out of the White House is in no way driving voters away from McCain.
What seems to be at issue is if folks who want to opt out of voting for McCain can wiggle their way out of possibly being responsible for electing Obama. And no sir, they can not. NOT voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other. Allowing a candidate to win by simply not participating does not then mean the person who didn’t vote is free from the impact of the election results.
I don’t hold anything against you for your opinion nyc123me I just believe you are wrong in this particular case at this particular time. However, argument is the way that we conservatives get things hashed out that’s one thing that distinguishes us from liberals. So remember this, don’t anyone get angry or take things personally our success is a product of our willingness to engage debate and sometimes even attack each other. That’s where our strength lies, a strength forged in the real world with real honesty and therefore very hard to defeat.
So I see nyc…. you want to not vote for McCain but not be responsible for Obama possibly winning. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
Going by your logic then, if you drive votes away from McCain you are also “partly responsible” for electing Obama, JSM.
So I see jsmiddleton…. you are pushing others away from voting for McCain but don’t want to be responsible for Obama possibly winning. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
And before you try to argue the point, yes, you are pushing people away from voting McCain, I know that as fact, because I am one of them.
“Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.”
And just who appointed you with the authority to decide just how it does or does not work. You are accusing me of voting for someone I did not vote for. I’m not at all sorry to say, it doesn’t work that way.
The funny thing here, tgusa, is the panic and contrary emotionalism after McCain had probably his best night so far in this election. To my thinking, it’s the Obama supporters who should be panicked, distraught and ranting irrationally today. (Actually, most of them are)
I’m picturing JohnnyMac grabbing some of his would-be cheerleaders by the throat and yelling “STFU, you idiot!!”.
So you are not going to vote for McCain based on what one commenter here has said?
who are you asking cmj?
nyc123me
And I am with everyone who does not what amnesty for illegals but unfortunately both candidates are for it. Abortions is another issue of mine and I will say that if McCain picks a pro-choice candidate, I will be sitting on my couch this year.
I was not intending to vote for McCain based on some of his policies prior to this ‘forum’, particularly his immigration stance. After McCains performance at the ‘forum’ I found myself reconsidering my stance (the fact that immigration did not come into the discussion likely was a big factor). Certain people here accusing me that I support Obama if I don’t support McCain is what reminded my why I was considering not voting for McCain in the first place. In case you don’t understand the glaringly obvious, the answer to your question is ‘no, my vote is not based purely on the comments of one commenter here’. Any other stupid questions?
“and I will say that if McCain picks a pro-choice candidate, I will be sitting on my couch this year.” – cmj.
Well according to ‘my friends’ jsmiddleton4 and Bill, that would mean you’re an Obama supporter.
Now you understand why I’m pissed?
I was not trying to be rude or offend you. Sorry if the question was taken the wrong way, please forgive me. But what jsmiddleton is saying about voting doesn’t bother me either. He can have is opinion, it does affect me either way.
No worries cmj, I’m being defensive, sorry for the ‘stupid question’ remark. I just strongly resent being told that I’m an Obama supporter if I don’t do as I’m told, contrary to my own convictions of what is good for the USA.
Understood.
And that should be “doesn’t affect me either way”
Enough already! This is starting to sound like a Kos blog.
Like it or not, McCain is not ALL things to all conservatives. But…electing a Marxist puppet and his puppeteer Soros, is not an option.
This is a country of “we the people”, and just as we put the brakes on “Shamnesty” once, we can do it again.
What would be near to impossible is trying to get the Marxist out if he’s elected. He would be firmly entrenched with the Congress we’re dealing with now.
Truce please!
Understanding that Warren’s “A Purpose Driven Life” isn’t much more than a self-help book with a “Christianist” twist, I wouldn’t expect Warren to actually try to pin Obama down on anything. Obama claims to be a Christian, as do 84% of Americans. My response is this:
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits. Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.’”
Considering Obama’s views of human life, national sovereignty (illegal immigration specifically, which is counter to Biblical teachings concerning nations and their roles), socialism (compared to the Bible saying, “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”), his views of homosexuality (as opposed to 1 Corinthians 6:9 and others), his view that Jesus isn’t the only way (as opposed to John 14:6, Acts 4:12, and others), I think I know where Obama stands based upon his fruits.
Gotta love the way Obama never answers a question. He simply restates the question then explains why it is such a difficult issue. After saying this in an intelligent sounding manner, people clap and they move on to the next question before the audience, who’s been wooed by Obama (much the same as they have by Warren on Sundays I’d imagine), realized that he never did actually answer the question. Pretty slick, buddy, but not that slick.
As for my vote:
None of the Above. It’s about time the parties realize that Americans actually do have a say and that they’d better start putting forth candidates that are 1) Qualified, 2) Different than the other guy, and 3) Representative of the party’s base. No longer are they just to assume that the base will vote for them as they seek to court the most moderates (e.g. lukewarm, unconcerned people).
Watch out Send_Me – according to jsmiddleton4 and Bill Grant, that makes you an Obama supporter.
Ridiculous.
Hey jsmiddleton. I have certain beliefs, I won’t bore you with the details, but here’s the point – if you don’t agree with me (which I know you don’t), that makes you a devil-worshiping child-molesting rapist. Why? Because I said so. Same argument as yours. Deal with it.
Aside from the fact that no one told you that you can relax; no one is the boss of you and everyone else is not so big.
I guess that there are some people who just won’t get that it is a choice between person A and person B for viable candidates. Too many variables perhaps.
Ok here’s two choices for you Bill. Jump off the nearest high-rise building, or jump in front of a train. Which is it? Sorry, that’s the only two choices you have because I said so – doing neither is not an option. Why aren’t you choosing one Bill? Why Bill? Why? Too many variables? No? Oh – you’re an Obama supporter. I see.
I just don’t understand why people can’t just be honest & admit that we’re only “less screwed” if McCain wins..
Don’t expect people to be all cheerleader giddy for him. He’s a Rhino, plain & simple.. The only thing that will make people happy to vote for him is a truly conservative VP pick. The ball is clearly in HIS court.
~Dan Lee
“Aside from the fact that no one told you that, you can relax”
Maybe you read back up to some of jsmiddleton4′s comments. That is exactly what he said – that if I don’t vote for McCain like he says, then I’m voting for Obama. It was very clear.
Agreed Dan.
Nothing hysterical about that analogy or anything.
In this case it is one or the other. You seem to think that is the end of your effect on the government. It isn’t, indeed it is the beginning. You have railed against “Shamnasty(TM)” here but I would give you very good odds that you haven’t joined any of the anti-illegal immigration political action committees. That might be a bit harder to do then write in someone who won’t be elected while a genuine threat to the USA is.
Nope, I am voting for McCain… And vowing to do my best to hold his feet to the fire once elected. Yeah, it might mean some cash and getting involved. (Which I loathe) It might even mean some disappointment. But I am very confident that I have chosen a good solution to the task at hand.
You don’t sound very confident of that.
I find this conversation very interesting but, with respect, I believe that some do not fully understand the realities associated with a 2-party system.
I am not thrilled with having John McCain as the nominee representing the GOP (although I am a little less unthrilled after seeing him wipe the floor with Obama at Saddleback). I take strong issue with his position on immigration and am disturbed by the possibility of him choosing a pro-abortion running mate. I would have preferred Fred Thompson or another truly solid conservative. But it is what it is.
Likewise, I agree with some of the positions held by other lesser known political parties, such as the Constitutional party.
But the reality is, there is only one viable candidate who can ensure Barack Obama never darkens the doorway to the Oval Office…and that is John McCain.
My vote is precious to me and although I wish we could have a strong conservative candidate, as a matter of conscience, I believe it is my duty to not waste my vote on someone who doesn’t have a chance (sorry Chuck) simply because they’re more in line with my thinking on a set of issues. It is my responsibility to vote wisely and do my part to ensure Obama loses…and I take that responsibility very seriously.
If you decide to vote for another party or if you sit the election out, the net result is that there will be one less vote McCain needs to win. And as history has proven, sometimes it’s a scant handful of votes that makes the difference between victory and defeat.
Like it or not, that non-vote is a defacto half vote for Obama.
It doesn’t mean you are a Barack Obama supporter, but it does mean that by your actions, you are choosing to lessen the chances that the only one who can defeat him has to do so…which is an act of supporting Obama.
Unless you believe that having a lying, vapid, pretentious, egomaniacal marxist be the leader of the free world is somehow a good thing. In which case…have fun with that.
I agree that McCain is a better option than Obama, you won’t get any argument from me on that point. That was not what the ‘discussion’ was about. I take offense at being told if I don’t vote for McCain then I’m an Obama supporter. This argument has been done to death on this site, and ultimately I can only agree to disagree. Why should I compromise my principles and vote for someone I feel is not right for the position? Your scare tactics only reinforce that conviction. I believe I have said pretty much these exact words to you before. There is nothing more to say on the matter. You call me an Obama supporter, then I’ll call you a devil-worshiping child-molesting rapist or some equally insulting name. The reasoning is the same. Just because I have stronger conservative convictions than you does not make me a leftwing Obama supporter. The idea of it is ludicrous.
Excellent comment powerpro.
There is no such thing as a “conservative nanny state” which is what you seem to be holding out for. Look, vote for whomever the hell you want, just don’t kid yourself that there is anything conservative about tossing your vote away in the face of an Obama presidency.
How did you possibly get that I’m “holding out for a conservative nanny state” from anything I posted? OMG you’ll just throw any fictitious comment out there based on absolutely nothing at all – much like your friend Obama. There should be less government imho. You’re the one who wants to vote for an illegal-alien-nanny-state RINO, my friend, not me.
unbelievable.
Because you evidentially believe that your vote is the beginning and end of obligation to the country. That and whining here. Again, you are opposed to “shamnasty” therefore you are not going to vote for McCain. What else have you done to push for controlling the borders? Either way we will be electing someone who is wobbly (McCain) or outright, committed and unashamed open borders. (Obama) Which person would you rather push to see your agenda furthered? Oh but you wont be pushing, will you? The other side will be.
Once again, Obama is not my “friend”. I am actually voting for McCain.
Nope, I am voting against all that and I am voting to give myself a fighting chance.
At this point you are going to have to continue your tantrum on your own. Say hello to Rob out there on the ledge.
Actually, my sincere apologies to Rob, he figured all this out weeks ago.
If you’re voting for McCain, you’re voting for shamnesty. This is the exact argument you have used against me in saying that I’m voting Obama if I don’t vote McCain, so take your own medicine and swallow it – you’re pro-amnesty, pro-nanny government, pro-RINO, period.
powerpro:
Well said.
nyc:
Sorry, but you are coming across as a bit unhinged on this thread.
You can choose to vote pragmatically, or ideologically.
Either way, each action has its consequences.
And not that it has anything to do with this ‘discussion’ whatsoever, but if you hadn’t noticed, I live in NYC, and spend plenty of time trying to enlighten the multitudes here that the sun does not in fact shine from Obamas bunghole. I’ve made a few see the light, amazingly enough. And what have you done, besides driving voters like me away from McCain? Actually don’t answer, because it is not relevant to this discussion at all – it’s just another one of your ‘tactics’ in fighting a losing battle.
Sorry atheling for coming across unhinged, but as I said, I get very annoyed at this childish “if you don’t vote McCain, then you’re an Obama supporter” bullsh*t. Heck, I thought that sort of thing died back in the playground, seriously.
These people who feel so strongly about McCain should be out trying to open the eyes of the multitudes of Obama supporters, rather than pushing away someone like me who was having second thoughts about not voting for McCain either.
nyc123me:
You sound as if your voting for McCain depends on the manner of how other people express their opinion on the subject.
Are you really that dependent on someone else’s presentation? Isn’t that a little superficial?
Your vote should depend on your own rational and informed deliberations, and not on emotions.
I think they are not calling you an “Obama supporter”, but, in a manner of speaking, if one votes for anyone else but McCain, or abstains from voting at all, that, in essence, gives Obama support.
Please, it’s logical. Re-read what powerpro wrote. It makes sense.
Atheling, yes, it was clearly stated that anyone who doesn’t vote for McCain is voting for Obama and therefore is an Obama supporter. It’s way back up there somewhere.
“You sound as if your voting for McCain depends on the manner of how other people express their opinion on the subject.”
Not at all, and I just answered this very question a little way back. #754 I think.
I have already expressed my rational. I initially have said that I could not in good conscience vote for someone who is pro-amnesty, as I am convinced that would spell the doom of this country. After hearing McCain speak so well, I was almost reconsidering that decision (in part possibly because immigration was never mentioned in the forum), however a couple here chose to repeatedly ignore that I was rethinking my stance and continued calling me an Obama supporter, so yes, I got angry. It served to remind me very clearly why I was reluctant to vote for McCain. So yes, they pushed away someone who might have grudgingly voted McCain.
Again, they should focus those efforts on Obama supporters.
Yes what Powerpro wrote is logical, but for me it is not as simple as A or B – if it were, then McCain would definitely have my vote, for what it’s worth. Again, as I have said, I believe amnesty is a deathblow for the USA. How can I vote for that and not feel I’ve betrayed this country?
There was an argument a month or so ago that I was involved in. Back then I was quite heavily anti-McCain (and Obama, needless to say, although it was still neck and neck with Clinton back then). My ‘logic’ then was that better 4 years of hell under the dems with a light at the end of the tunnel and a Republican representative, than 4 years of having to hold my nose with no light at the end of the tunnel at all, as the Republican party swings further and further to the left (the idea being that the Republican party would get the message to put up a conservative representative next time, not a centrist). I was thinking beyond just the next 4 years.
Again, it is provably not the case. I am voting to have a chance to fight amnesty and I intend to get involved in doing so. Presidents don’t write laws, congress does. The course of action you are perusing will guarantee that we will get it with Obama ready to sign whatever Amnesty bill that comes from the democratic controlled congress, probably within the first 100 days.
You just haven’t heard a word that has been said to you by about a half dozen people.
Somehow I don’t think we will doing lunch. If that is the case how could you contemplate allowing someone who seeks to feel the islamists pain after what was done here? How could you contemplate walking away from the war on islamist scum bags that killed 3000 people in lower Manhattan?
That idea was brought to you courtesy of Hill and Knowlton PR firm out of Washington DC back when they were tossing out ideas for the DNC to see how they could get the conservatives to stay home for Hillary Clinton.
You do not gain influence by losing elections. Also, that will certainly get you Amnesty on a scale that you had never dreamed of.
Perhaps McCain’s VP pick will help me reconsider. We’ll just have to wait and see. My advice to you Bill (and jsmiddleton4, the other ‘half-dozen’ lol) – don’t antagonize someone who is considering voting McCain, you’re not doing anyone any favors – except perhaps Obama, apparently.
Sorry, No can do. I antagonize everyone. I am an antagonist.
Pro-Life Question for John McCain
Odumbo doesn’t qualify to shine Justice Thomas’ shoes.
I agree that McCain was very impressive at this forum. Obama’s performance was bad to awful. Dodging and weaving…. Man, I thought he was going to break out into “The Hustle” at one point.
I know that Obama was lying his butt off on every point (except for his contempt for the brilliant and honorable Justice Thomas).
The only problem is that I no longer think McCain is being straight with us either. He knows what he has to say to draw conservatives back into the fold. But, 10 years of his RINOism has convinced me that he is not sincere when he talks like this.
I will not be voting for John McCain this year.
“RINO”
Main Entry:
1 ri·no· \rii-ˈnoo\
Function:
noun
Date:
1989
1: A DNC wedge phrase to split the republican party and elect a socialist.
Here’s my reasoning for not voting for either candidate and voting my conscience.
1. 2000: Honestly, how different were Bush and Gore? How large was the workable pool of voters (# of swing/moderate voters?)
2. 2004: How different were Bush and Kerry? I mean, come on, how many liberal or incompetent policy proposals has Bush supported? Did that pool of workable voters increase or decrease in size?
3. 2008: We see that McCain and Obama are very much alike, focusing not on their bases of support, but rather on the lukewarm crowd, the folks who are swayed by cheesy commercials, the ones who really don’t care about politics but want a good show. The far left is alienated, as well as the far right.
2012 prediction: The candidates will be even more alike than they are now, and we’ll once again ask ourselves, “which of the evils should we choose?” The problem though is that the differences will not be as apparent.
Conclusion: Unless we wish to continue down this road, where neither party cares to remain responsive to its base, we must make them realize that we are still sentient beings who vote with our brains and conscience, not out of convenience.
So, if you really do care about the state of this country, you will vote your conscience when choosing a President, and you will vote the bums of the 14% Congress out of office.
Also, consider this: “Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.” ~John Quincy Adams
I respectfully disagree. After watching the GOP race the Dems to socialism over the last 8 years your proposed definition just doesn’t match reality.
National GOP leadership have split the party by trying to become the “other party of big govenment.”
I wish it weren’t so a $3.1 Trillion proposed budget for FY 2009 is hard to argue with.
There is an ongoing movement out of the Democratic underground to split the Republican vote by going on to conservative websites and tossing out the word “RINO” referring to those who are supporting John McCain for president, as well as other canards about him not being conservative enough. The objective is to get the “conservative dupes” to “stay on their tractors” this election day by poisoning the well for John McCain. Be on guard and have your pitchforks, torches and nooses at the ready.
Buddy, have you looked at what Obama proposes to do? That’s socialism. Yes, government has grown too big under the republicans, McCain has been an advocate of limited government while other republicans acted like pigs at the trough. That is one of the reasons he has made enemies with other republicans.
McCain is one of the only senators to forgo earmarks which has been one of the major budget busters and he has vowed to veto pork laden budgets if he becomes president.
Congress creates budgets, not the president and congress is controlled by the democrats. Additionally, Bush’s blunders are not McCains.
Only 6 comments away from 800… Unfortunately I have run out of ways to say that electing Obama doesn’t have anything to do with conservative principals.