Is the Obamessiah just pulling abortion statistics out of his wazoo?
Nice Deb thinks the Chosen One was playing fast and loose with the facts during the Saddleback debate.
And by the way…abortions did not go up under George Bush’s Presidency. That’s an oft repeated lie that pro-aborts like to tell. I’d like to see where he’s getting his statistics, because every chart I can find shows a decrease in abortions during W’S watch.
But as Deb notes, even the pro-choice Guttmacher Institute acknowledges a decline in abortions under Bush’s presidency:
• In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million in 2000. From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million legal abortions occurred.[2]
Guttmacher cites a 2008 study in their own peer-reviewed journal, Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health, for those figures. Here’s more stats (also unearthed by Nice Deb) that suggest Obama either lied, or just has no idea what he’s talking about.
He gets confused sometimes, you know:
______________
{Post by See-Dubya. That video is by the fine funny folks at The Nose On Your Face.}
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The voice of experience? I note you carefully avoided my reference to Obama’s legislative history. That would suggest in addition that you are fully aware that he isn’t answering the question for reasons having nothing to do with humility.
sonofdy,
I just want you to know that I very much admire New Zealand wine (in fact had some Brancott tonight, or “Montana” everywhere else in the world) and thus have much respect for your culture.
I just watched the video. Man, that is killing me!
FamilyMan: Far be it for me to defend obama but if he does think life begins at birth, then his support of abortion rights is valid. I would disagree with him totaly but it would not make him a monster. Now if he thought life begins at conception, like mccain, then yes, supporting abortion would make him a supporter of murder, since by his own beliefs, he would be supporting the killing of a live human. BUT Obama has refused to answer this question and does not even clarifiy it on his web site.
Chap-
I’ll bet you could ask girls/women who are compelled or choose to abort a baby what a “zygote” is, and the vast majority wouldn’t know. (Just a hunch!) I haven’t seen studies done on the intelligence of the females who fit into the abortion age group, but I’ll also bet their IQ’s are not very high either. I have trouble believing that an intelligent, forward looking, responsible female would put herself in a position to have to make that choice to begin with.
Huh? I think you quoted my wrong comment, but in any case, as I said, my argument is not with Obama’s position on abortion. My argument is with see dub’s characterization of Obama’s comment as either a lie or lack of knowledge.
Thanks. Actualy New Zealand is VERY liberal. I love both countries and through my travels have seen many cultures and I have to say the USA and New Zealand are the 2 best I have seen. Niether is perfect, both have issues. But they are both worth keeping. I just wish they could be closer. If there were ever to be a group meeting of people from this board I would recomend wirewa. It is where I spent many weekends when I was a kid. You can hire a cottage for 120 nzd a night, right off the beach. Look it up.
Again, one other thing Chappie, I’m sure even Obama is aware that a number like ‘16′ is not an accurate enough reflection of the population to make claims the number is not falling. It would take a 6.25% decrease to have any effect on that number whatsoever, and that is most certainly beyond significant.
chapoutier: I would say Obama just heard what he said from an advisor and never bothered to check up on it. As I said, thats not the big deal for me.
It is truly the ONE place I would go in all the world, money no object. My father in law has been many times for various research projects (he’s a marine scientist).
Wait until the day scientists say they’re able to tell whether or not your baby will be homosexual while it’s still in the womb.
To not have formulated a clearly expressed major policy just a few months before a general election just doesn’t play very well.
Well, right here we’re talking about abortion. If he has a clear policy he sure didn’t want talk about it last night. As I said if he subscribes to the universal liberal default of “it’s all good” on abortion then he should not be afraid to say so and let the chips fall where they may.
The “pay grade” is an embarassing dodge, moreso when you’re running against a war hero. It’s a good thing this wasn’t a face 2 face debate or McCain would have totally decimated him with something like “I’m glad my opponent has again defered to my experience on a major issue.”
The spin is of course “he was great”. That’s just politics, no matter who it is or how badly a guy got whomped. But again as I sez, I think you can be sure his people are worried and are/will be running him through a Manhattan Project “My Fair Lady” makeover when it comes to Q&As.
He’s used to addressing Oprah-ish adoring fawning fans who go for the flowers & glitter-gens. When it comes to general election debates it’s a whole new ball game and his campaign was already aware of the problem. Town Hall type debates are their worst nightmare come true.
Not disagreeing. My point was that it is a big leap to go from “using lesser or contradicted statistics” to “lying” or “has no clue.”
But lets just all focus for a minute on the wonder that is New Zealand. The best Sauv. Blanc in the world, Flight of the Conchords and cute hobbits scurrying around.
No I didn’t. You seemed to be speaking with the voice of experience about drug sniffing dogs.
And I know what you said about Obama, but you’ve been defending his dishonesty in not answering the question. And a weak defense it’s been, given that your own statistics don’t support you. It’s a tough job for a lawyer, defending a guilty client, isn’t it?
I think he has been crystal clear about his policy on abortion. It should be legal. You may think his rationale is wishy washy, but that is not the same thing.
Sorry i always miss spell waiwera. This is a picture of the beach.
Just to clarify: the unborn child is in a natural “curled up” state in the womb, the “fetal position”. He is not bending over and grabbing his ankles.
sonofdy – yes NZ is very liberal – I was trying to have a rational conversation recently with some young Kiwis, and wow, I thought the SanFran lefties were bad, but heck, they just attacked me with all sorts of names and not a single shred of anything to back up what few arguments they made. In fact they didn’t make any argum,ent whatsoever, they just abused me for saying the Helen Clark is ruining what was a great country. They were all perfectly convinced they were entitled to not work and live off the government handouts instead, and somehow could not relate that the government is not some endless pool of money, but in fact working NZer’s that pay taxes for that reason.. What happened to the days when Kiwis knew that benefits were there for temporary emergencies, not an entitlement? I hope things will improve once Helen Clark is gone.
Are you speaking of Waiwera hot pools, just past Orewa?
I got the impression that see dub thought Obama’s answer was an obfuscation, which in my opinion, it clearly was. The canned phrase “above my pay grade” allowed him to avoid answering the question.
By not answereing “at birth” or “at conception” allowed him to straddle the issue, and gave him deniability no matter which side challanged his answer.
This is not the wazoo he thought he kneww
Jeez. that was a joke.
The presumption there is that he was dishonest. I have shown a set of statistics that can reasonably be interpreted as showing a statistical flatline in abortions, i.e., no decrease, under Bush. Were I a criminal attorney, I would call that reasonable doubt.
And the females?
That is the issue for me. Roe vs wade is not going away, even mccain can see that. Bush didn’t even try. To me if he clearly supports a policy of killing what he sees as a live human being, then that is clearly a morality issue. If he had stated, life begins at birth and not conception, then this would not be an issue for me.
Chap, head to the Marlborough region (Blenheim and Nelson) for some great wines. There’s also an awesome little distillery in Nelson that makes some of the best sumbucha on the planet.
nyc and sonofdy,
Why is it that only liberal cultures make good wine?
nyc123me: Yes. I love that place and always stay there at least one day when I go down there. As to liberal kiwis, they aren’t all like that.
Guess they have to get something right.
Obviously. So was my retort. I shouldn’t have to explain these things to you.
Something about them being stuck up???
Just as a point of clarification, see dub at no time mentioned the question you are referring to.
And hope like hell for a really, really, stupid jury.
Yeah true sinofdy, certainly not all kiwis are far lefties, but the younger generation sure seems to be riddled with it. Then again, haven’t they always? Challenging authority and all that.. I know I was as a ‘fresher’ at Otago University many many years ago. Good times.
Gotcha. Sorry, should have read your first sentence separate from the rest of the post.
Like all other babies they’re also just curled up napping. Hard to catch up on sleep in later years. Trust me, I’ve tried.
All you need is one… all you need is one.
My favorite surf beach is Piha. Not recomended if you can’t swim WELL. They are always picking up the weak swimers, or thier bodies, from the rocks and ocean. On the other beaches, even the lifesavers get in trouble on a regular basis. My mother had a lifesaver mate drown on bethels beach when she was young.
@chapoutier:
Please inform us as to what statistic you used to infer that no statistical difference is noted for the range of years in your quoted study. A flat line, such as you noted, is only a visual reference which is more indicative of scaling for the vertical axis of the chart and does not necessarily show statistical significance. As noted earlier, if this data was for job growth rates, it would be considered a decrease by the media.
The null hypothesis for the left is, and always will be, “Everything negative is George Bush’s fault and he is an idiot.” I reject your hypothesis due to overwhelming evidence of political bias.
I know Piha well – surfed there for years, even back when the road wasn’t sealed. Raglan’s prob my favorite though, but that’s because of the world-class surf, not the ‘beach’. There’s some amazing beaches on the east coast though. Gisborne area, the Coromandel, and up north of Auckland past Wellsford – Takatu Point is stunningly beautiful. Truly NZ is ‘God’s Own’. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
So who is in for a board get together in New Zealand? I have a mate who can hook us up with a football clubhouse or we can get an RSA hall for a night.
nyc123me: me too. I plan to retire there. Then you can all come visit. Except lgm of course. Just kidding.
I am not the media and do not give one fig how they would spin it in this context.
That is not my hypothesis, so please refrain from attributing it to me.
hayroller15 said:
“I can no more disown my wazoo than I could my owntypical white grandma. Say wha? Did my wazoo just call me a hypocrite, claiming I am just doing what politicians do? Under the bus with you wazoo!”
Mookie said:
Except one’s homo/heterosexuality is not (purely) genetic. Even in identical twins separated from birth, just because one is gay doesn’t mean the other is. While they are more likely to be gay than the average person in the general population, there is still a significant portion that aren’t. I believe the stat is something like if one twin is gay, the other is 50% more likely than average to be gay, too. If it was purely a matter of genetics, we should expect that if one was gay, then the other would be gay 90+% of the time.
chapoutier said:
No, Obama has not been clear on his policy about abortion. If he was, he would explicitly state that he is perfectly OK with allowing even infanticide in order to protect the right to an abortion. Good luck on ever seeing him come clean on that one.
I never could figure out why the left supports abortion anyway…
Think of it, over a million new “wards of the state” a year, all raised & indoctrinated by the state at taxpayer expense, and entire new government department to oversee it, countless patronage jobs, unlimited “for the children” funding, a state run placement service guaranteeing unlimited affirmative action…
I could go on, but lgm’s hand is getting tired.
brooklyn red said:
It has to do with the Democrats’ platform of calling good evil, and evil good.
You think we should give the most vile criminals in the world the needle? Oh the inhumanity!
Oh, you wanna crush some baby’s skull and suck its brains out? Great, that is excellent!
awwww, what the hell…
think of all those cute little faces all lined of so pretty in their recycled green uniforms, clutching their copies of Al Gores book waiting patiently for their daily rations…
heh.. RSA.. had some messy nights in a few of those. Yay cheap beer!
Chap old buddy.
In the position that obummer is running for , he better have talking points.
If not he’ll find himself quite a few time like he did last night.
And that my friend is not a good thing for someone running for POTUS.
find himself in trouble quite
see-dubya,
Please don’t use their terminology. Pro-choice is an exercise in semantics to make abortion sound less abominable. The choice they are in favor of is abortion. They are and should be called pro-abortion!
NY Andy, good point… I second that.
NY Andy said:
Or just call them what they like to call our brave troops – baby killers.
Abortion
Pro-choice
Infanticide
Evacuation of fetal tissue mass
Woman’s right to choose
Non sustainable uterine growth
Murder
CHOOSE YOUR TERM or add one.
I’ll say it again, the Democratic party is the party of deceit…no matter the topic.
If McCain was a true conservative he wouldn’t be losing to Obama among support from the military. 6 to 1 active military overseas donate to Obama. I saw this on fox news if it matters
Trust me, he isn’t.
Another knucklehead who is misrepresenting statistics. This has been debated twice on this blog with two different people, amazing to see how much ignorance of the facts exist out there.
I’ll ask you the same thing I asked MJ and neocon527, list me officer and enlisted salaries and explain to me in laymans terms how the average enlisted guy who has bills and a family on that salary can afford to give over 200 dollars (which is all the government keeps track of for reporting purposes to the public). 1417 total donations to both McCain and Obama out of 3+ million on active duty and active reserve? Officers have a lot more disposable cash and some of them (like the fired General Clark) only want more power and shift with the wind. I would love to see what the totals under 200 dollars were, because I would bet a large sum of money it is heavily skewed in favor of McCain since enlisted folk knows what happens to military spending and care of troops under a (D) President.
you need to get the whole story nero, as the report didn’t say active duty military support obama 6 to one, they said donations from active duty military personnel were six times higher for obama than mccain. could this be because our military is integrated, and obama is the first black presidential candidate, so minority members of the military are sending money to his campaign? why would any military person send money to any candidate, or do they have so much money they need to spend it on politicians? let’s see how the military votes in november!
The report didn’t say that either, the total donations are listed in my post above yours. The lib media grabbed a hold of a specific section of a portion of donations over 200 dollars and ran with it and made headlines out of it to fire up their liberal base.
chapoutier, either you’re wrong or you’ve misused the term statistically significant. I’ll give you enough credit to assume misuse.
Please review the definition of the term “statistcally significant” and make a correction.
corkie,
My understanding is that if it can be shown to not have occurred by chance. I do understand that even a small % change can be statistically significant.
Looking back on my posts, yes I was using that term pretty fast and loose. Looking at the trendline, however I still don’t think it is disingenuous for Obama to say that abortions haven’t gone down under Bush, at least not from 2001-2004.
# 158 chap said:
But, in making such an assertion, wouldn’t it be disingenuous for Obama to only cite four years out of an eight year record…without clarifying his assertion as such?
Is this not the same as me describing you as an “undergraduate” by ignoring your 2-4 years of law school? In asserting this by referring to your undergraduate transcript, am I not being dishonest by not acknowledging your graduate work as well?
And the thing that gets me is – it was clearly evident by the released record of his vote that Obama has been dishonest, for 5 years now, in classifying his vote down of the “Born Alive” legislation as based on a lack of federal wording protecting Roe. With the release of this Illinois Senate documentation, Obama will now be forced to change the reason why he voted this piece of legislation down.
Knowing this now, why would you give this same man the benefit of the doubt concerning his misrepresentation of abortion statistics over the past eight years? Haven’t the events of this past week proven to you that the man is quite capable of dishonesty?
Thanks for clarifying.
Also, I agree that the numbers you presented haven’t decreased much on an absolute basis. It wouldn’t be disingenuous to consider them flat. However, I really didn’t look at this incident carefully.
I guess, if you get to make up your own facts then you can also claim that Bush is responsible for all the problem you imagine too.
He doesn’t have to be “right” since he is the Obamessiah. Again, the MSM has got him covered on this too.
BrianNY,
Obviously I have no idea what numbers Obama was actually considering when he made that statement. That said, politicians have the right to present the numbers and interpretations of those numbers that best suit them, so long as the numbers are legit and the interpretations of such are reasonable. I am sure you would agree that every politician does that. It is one thing to argue about which data and which interpretation is more accurate, but I think there is a big difference between that and calling someone a liar, which is what see dub did, and basically what you are doing. Heck, see dub has not even seen fit to clarify what it was Obama actually said. He still is implying Obama said abortions went up. As for the 4 years of data, it is entirely reasonable in my opinion to rely on the CDC’s figures and those are the must up to date figures available. Again, it is fair to point out that it only covers the first 4 years of Bush’s administration. But it is quite another to claim that Obama is lying.
Actually, that would probably garner me more respect here.
Well you have to cut “The Golden Calf” some slack. Campaigning is hard and he gets tired. you must forgive him if he is forced into pulling statistics out of his butt and for making statements about things that either just plain don’t make sense or have absolutely nothing to do with anything.
After all, you know damn well that the Left would do the same for McCain.
(Wow…I got through all of that without vomitting one time in my mouth. A new record.)
“Forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”
I post this quote – because apparently some of us forget the power of images – and how they can backfire – big time.
It will actually cause people to vote for Obama – not to mention, causing this blog, as well as, Republicans in general, to be looked upon with disdain.
We don’t see the image of Christ being used in commercials – for reasons I don’t need to explain.
Well – the damage is already done.
This little joke by just a few – along with the linking of the Messiah name with the Obama name – is not going to sit well not only with many people of Faith – but with those with a
perceived notion that a candidate’s opponent has been unfair. (Even though the perceived unfairness is not directly attributable to the opponent.)
I would pull the image from this blog – either way – but what do I know.
(Stop comment abuse – 3 or less per post is sane)