The Democrat Party platform’s hidden Soros Slush Fund
My syndicated column today delves into the Democrat Party platform and exposes how untold amounts of taxpayer funding would be steered to militant, George Soros-backed left-wing groups. Welcome to Barack Obama’s “Social Investment Fund Network.”
Follow the money.
That goes for both presidential candidates who carry the Soros taint. Ugh.
***
The Democrat Party platform’s hidden Soros Slush Fund
by Michelle Malkin
Creators Syndicate
Copyright 2008
The Democrat Party platform is like a bag of pork rinds. You never know what high-fat liberal government morsel you’re gonna get.
Buried in the 94-page document is a noble-sounding proposal to create a “Social Investment Fund Network.” The program would provide federal money to “social entrepreneurs and leading nonprofit organizations [that] are assisting schools, lifting families out of poverty, filling health care gaps, and inspiring others to lead change in their own communities.” The Democrat Party promises to “support these results-oriented innovators” by creating an office to “coordinate government and nonprofit efforts” and then showering “a series of grants” on the chosen groups “to replicate these programs nationwide.”
In practice, this Barack Obama brainchild would serve as a permanent, taxpayer-backed pipeline to Democrat partisan outfits masquerading as public-interest do-gooders. This George Soros Slush Fund would be political payback in spades. Obama owes much of his Chicago political success to financial support from radical, left-wing billionaire and leading “social entrepreneur” Soros. In June 2004, Soros threw a big fund-raiser at his New York home for Obama’s Illinois Senate campaign. Soros and family personally chipped in $60,000. In April 2007, Obama was back in New York for a deep-pocketed Manhattan fund-raising soiree, with Soros lurking in his shadow (yes, that’s him behind Obama grasping onto the stairs).
No doubt with Soros’s approbation (if not advice from the hands-on “progressive” activist or his advisors), Obama fleshed out his Social Investment Fund Network plan last December. In concert with his mandatory volunteerism pitch and $6 billion anti-poverty plan, Obama called for the creation of a “Social Entrepreneurship Agency” to dispense the funds in unspecified amounts. The agency would be a government-supported nonprofit corporation “similar to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting,” which runs public television. (And we’ve all seen how fair and balanced that lib-dominated, Bill Moyers-boosting private-public enterprise turned out.)
Obama cites the Harlem Children’s Zone, which provides after-school activities and mentors to children in New York, as an example of a program that should be funded. (HCZ’s former senior leader, Shawn Dove, is now an official at Soros’s Open Society Institute.) The problem with such initiatives, as Mitchell Moss pointed out in the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal several years ago, is that these private-public partnerships formed under the guise of economic renewal often become nothing more than fronts that coordinate “an enormous safety net for social services.” Private donations give the illusion of self-help and philanthropic independence, but in reality, the “clients” are never weaned from the teat of the welfare state. They simply learn how to milk it more efficiently.
Even more troubling is how the Democrat Party/Obama plan would siphon away untold millions or billions of public tax dollars into the Soros empire without taxpayer recourse. Obama promises “accountability” measures to ensure the money is spent wisely. But who would assess effectiveness of the spending? Why, experts in the social entrepreneurship community, of course. Fox, meet henhouse.
Soros has donated some $5 billion of his fortune to left-wing non-profit groups through the Open Society Institute — which is committed to Soros’s militant ideology of toppling the “fascist” tyranny of the United States, which he says must undergo “de-Nazification” in favor of “justice.” The mob at Obama-endorsing MoveOn, purveyors of the “General Betray Us” smear against Commanding General, MNF-I, David Petraeus, is the most notorious Soros-backed political arm. But scores of other activist non-profits have received Soros funding under the guise of doing non-partisan “community” or “social justice” work — and it is exactly such leftist activist groups that would be first in line for the Democrat Party/Obama’s “social investment” seed money.
Point in case: ACORN. As I’ve reported before, Obama’s old friends at the Chicago-based non-profit now take in 40 percent of its revenues from American taxpayers. They have raked in tens of millions in federal anti-poverty grants while their operatives preside over massive voter fraud, corporate shakedowns, and mortgage scams across the country. Soros has donated at least $150,000 to the group, according to Investor’s Business Daily, and “heads a secretive rich-man’s club called ‘Democracy Alliance’ that has doled out $20 million to activist groups like ACORN.”
Once the spigot is turned on, there’s no turning back.
Where are fiscal conservatives on this far-Left boondoggle? Well, if you’re wondering why the McCain campaign doesn’t raise hell over this proposed left-wing non-profit/government pipeline, it’s because McCain himself is a Soros beneficiary. His “Reform Institute, ” a tax-exempt, supposedly independent 501(c)(3) group focused on campaign finance reform, was funded with Soros-funded Open Society Institute and Tides Foundation.
Birds of a Big Government feather flock together– and look out for each other. Watch your wallet.
See what others have said
Note from Michelle: This section is for comments from michellemalkin.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with or endorse any particular comment just because I let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with my terms of use may lose his or her posting privilege.
Trackbacks
- Right Voices » Blog Archive » Follow the money: Welcome to Barack Obama’s “Social Investment Fund Network.”
- locomotivebreath (warbucks) 1901
- Just Say No! to “George Soros for President” « I Took The Red Pill (and escaped the Matrix)
- The Democrat Party platform’s hidden Soros Slush Fund « Thoughts Of A Conservative Christian
- Political Party Poop
- The Democratic Party’s Hidden Soros Slush Fund | THE HOT JOINTS
- The Saloon dot net
- Swamp Hermit’s *QUICK* Bits « The Swamp Hermit’s Report
- Patterico’s Pontifications » An Obama Rorshach Test
- McCain: Tough On Bin Laden; Afraid of Schlafly « I Took The Red Pill (and escaped the Matrix)
- Maggie's Farm
- The Lesser of Two Communists? « I Took The Red Pill (and escaped the Matrix)
- Soros and Barry, Quite Contrary « Mountain Shout
- Obama, What Else Is “Not In My Pay Grade”: « Riggword Weblog
- Michelle Malkin » Where in the world
- Michelle Malkin » ACORN Watch, Pt II: Obama hid $800,000 payment to ACORN through “Citizen Services, Inc.”
- Obama Is The Dying Rose: « Riggword Weblog
- Michelle Malkin » The Obamas and their “Public Allies”
- Obama, The Sorcerer’s Apprentice: « Riggword Weblog
- Capital Research Center:
- Michelle Malkin » McCain blows it — defends Obama’s community organizer record
- Why is Sen. Obama against the U.S. Military? « GOODNESS WORLD LIFE BLOG
- Michelle Malkin » Crikey: Public Radio and Public TV want a $550 million bailout
- Michelle Malkin » ACORN Watch: Left-wing fraudsters “could get billions” in stimulus money
- Papa Mike’s Blog » Blog Archive » ACORN Watch: Left-wing fraudsters “could get billions” in stimulus money
- Michelle Malkin » Look beyond the bogus bonus smokescreen
- Michelle Malkin » To GIVE and to SERVE: the $6 billion National Service boondoggle
- Look beyond the bogus bonus smokescreen « BIJENKORF:beehive
- To GIVE and to SERVE « BIJENKORF:beehive
- Czar Obama needs YOUR money to fund his mini army to keep make sure you obey! « 22MOON.COM
Comments
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Categories: ACORN Watch, Barack Obama, MoveOn.org
Pundit & Pundette
» Erik Sean Nelson's life is more worthy than those greeters at Walmart
Pundit & Pundette
» If Palin is putting her family first, more power to herAmerican Thinker
» Sarah Palin breaks the mold againPundit & Pundette
» Sarah Palin to resign??Conservatives4Palin
» Sarah Palin Crosses the RubiconNice Deb
» Bombshell: Sarah Palin To ResignPatterico
» Report: Palin Will Not Run for Re-Election As Governor of Alaska; UPDATE: Will Resign Within Weeks
joy, besides what Obama told you to think, what makes mccain so unacceptable?
Hi atheling, want to answer Dad’s question yet?
You can use google to find it, or if you job at McCain inc., won’t give you access to google, I can retype it from his journal.
See, “My Friends”, here is someone who daren’t answer a simple question.
All she has are worn personal attacks. How sad.
Hey sweety, who’s foaming at every poster who even mildly questions your True Love & employer?
Who hates so much she berates her hostess?
Hummmm?
McCain + REAL Conservative VP pick = Real Chance to win in Nov.
McCain + fellow Rhino Republican or Democrat VP = 4 years of Obama
It’s really simple math..
Your both wrong.
Soros is not running for anything, he only funds certain politicians for other personal reasons.
Question? What does Soros expect to gain from his multi billion dollar investment??
I ponder often why anyone would like to move closer and closer to Socialism/Communism. I see it as very evil. What do you mean, the press is censored so I can’t hear all the truth, only what the Government wants me to hear. That to me is just inherently wrong.
Half of this country right now is willing to vote to go that route. Half!
Why is that? Why do they do it? What do they know that I don’t or why can’t they see the danger?
I think many Democrats truly believe in helping others who are less fortunate than themselves. They believe that we should protect the environment completely, they want to make sure everyone has healthcare, education, jobs, housing, and a higher standard of living. They feel sorry for the homeless guy begging for money at the offramp or the poverty stricken foreigner crossing our borders that just wants to have a better life for their family. They want love for all peoples, of all colors and religions, and backgrounds. They consider these ideals to be what they aspire to and think others should also have this philosophy of helping others and protecting what God has given us.
Their biggest mistake, however, is that they think the Democratic Party is the only party who wants this. I see it nightly on the liberal news. Republicans won’t give health care to babies. Republicans pursue policy to destroy the environment. Republicans leave minorities to die in New Orleans, etc. Republicans want to take over all other countries by waging overt and covert war.
The funny thing is, Republicans want to help others who are less fortunate than themselves. They believe that we should protect the environment. They want everyone to have healthcare, education, jobs, housing, and a higher standard of living. They also feel sorry for the homeless guy begging for money at the offramp or the poverty stricken foreigner crossing our borders that just wants to have a better life for their family. They want love for all peoples, of all colors and religions, and backgrounds. They just don’t believe Government can or should be doing it. Isn’t that the real debate?
If Socialism/Communism was the answer, why have no countries been able to achieve the Utopian dream of no unemployment, no pollution, no violence, high standard of living for everyone, etc?
The USSR tried to fool people into believing they did it. They worked hard at that, cutting off access to the rest of the world, mass extermination and mistreatment of dissenters,etc. In the end, it was proven to be false.
In summary, I think most people want the same thing. A good life for all. I just don’t think the perfection will ever be there. There will always be people that have problems through their lives. Thats life.
Its the method for improving lives that is debated. Both sides have ideas to improve lives and both sides think their way is superior to the other. The debate has just sunk so low with false accusations perpetuated by the MSM that it is disgusting.
When we can have an honest discussion about how to achieve the same goals, we can make better progress. Right now, it is all about lies and deception and demonizing, and trickery.
Faith based initiatives, social investment, welfare, entitlements? Which work, which don’t, why do they or don’t they? What are the core concepts that get us there? Government vs Individuals? What are best practices? If welfare leads to dependency, what else do we do? How will we ever have a civil discussion? Look at this blog where even “conservatives” can’t agree and liberals swoop in with ridiculous moral equivalents, and petty, childish accusations. Is it more about “power” than doing good for the world?
Excuse my ranting but sometimes what I read here really gets my hackles up. Thank God I am not reading the Daily Kos BS blog. I just couldn’t take it. Its like watching NBC or listening to NPR.
Watch what they do, not listen to what they say they do.
allsrn:
I partially disagree.
While your point about Soros is accurate, the Welfare State does create a perm. constituency who have no choice but to vote the way they’re stampeded by threats to their livelyhood, the govmnt stiped.
As for the first part, how do you see Soros-control&mentoring functionally different from Soros supported w/IOUs?
I’ve wondered, many times, if it isn’t a distinction w/o a difference.
#105
T-bone:
Well said! Well said! Well said!
*** end of three cheers ***
sonofdy - That’s the McCainiacs answer to everything isn’t it? You Republicans (not conservatives) have degenerated into everything you have always accused the Dems of being.
I’m sorry for you that you can’t conceive of people who not only have conservative priciples and beliefs, but they are willing to stand up for them.
The Dems slid into Marxism because they always vote for the D regardless. Don’t worry, you Rs will get there too, because you’ll obviously always vote the R regardless.
You’re the frog, and the pot is up to boil and you’re in it. Why get so angry at those who have chosen to jump out of the boiling pot?
allsrn - Power.
Joy,
How about answering sonofdy’s question instead of ranting?
Yes, as they slowly build their single party two class system. You are talking tactical I am talking strategic.
Wow!
Lazy voter who don’t want to do their own research…
Like MM, who you are constantly finding fault with!
You, who claim moral superiority on research, but can’t provide a link to any supporting documentation!
You seriously have so little respect for the average Joe’s ablity to think. How can you think yourselves so above everyone else as to try to put that over?
Ah, so you’re the people who claim TrueBlood and others are RINO?
I’m not an R, sweety. I’m a Constitutionalist. I vote to uphold that sacred document — as I have sworn an oath to do.
But, lets let others decide, not by our protestations, but by our actions.
Who’s attacking everyone who disagrees w/them, acting snotty at new blog commentors?
Who bad-mouths the hostess, who lets us for free post whatever comes to mind?
If you don’t like a piece she’s posted, don’t read it! Why the need to control what MM writes or others read? Are you such a busy-body? We just can’t be trusted with the freedom of our own opinion, you wish to tell us what to think.
If not, why browbeat people? Your morality is obviously superiour to Franklin’s, Jefferson’s, Adam’s, Madison’s, nd the rest! They wanted Freedom of Political Speech, you want it too, as long as we don’t point out problems with your chosen candidate! I guess even YOU know what a dog he is, just like OB’s people, afterall, you’re using their playbook.
atheling - His question has been answered a thousand times all over this blog. Therefore I know he’s not asking a serious question. I’ll answer, he’ll ignore the answer as usual and go on with his ad hominem attacks, as will you. You all don’t listen to the answers, why should I waste my time typing and retyping?
Go back through the threads. The answers are right in front of you. This blog is full of the answers in Michelle’s posts. The news is full of the snswers… but most importantly, McCain himself has answered that question.
I have a question for you. Can you summarize why conservatives like me are against McCain? Without calling us names? Can you actually repeat back what we’ve been saying for MONTHS?
See, I can summarize what you are saying… literally… “He’s not as bad as Obama.”
Now, you give it a try. And I mean a serious one. Because those who think like me have offered many many many reasons not to vote for McCain.
Why are you, atheling, asking?
The over the months in the archive, 15 others times she took to carefully explain it you didn’t address a word she said, just sniffed at how a factual response was beneath Your Magesty!
Joy:
Excellent! Excellent! Excellent!
*** end of three cheers ***
T-Bone, I give you a long, standing ovation for that most excellent comment. Bravo!
You are so right. The liberal media paints the Republicans as evil and uncaring, when it people like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton who favor evil in the form of partial-birth abortion. As we know, Barack even supports infanticide.
Capitalism >> Communism
I’ve written quite a few posts on this topic.
Hebrews 11:1
Well, I have faith in Jesus, but not in people, particularly when it comes to politics.
Ok, I see why you might say that.
I’ve spent 41 yrs watching our culture and civilization slide Left, with an almost pause during Reagan.
During that time, spent thinking, teaching, and working for Constitutionality in our society, I’ve come to the conclusion that both tactical and strategic action are need.
Tactical action is LOTE. Atleast that’s the argument many here give. I used to agree w/that idea, but no longer.
I’ve seen the outcome of LOTE voting. Because I’m older than 30 and a lover of history, I see where LOTE will finish.
Too many people here pushing LOTE are practicing wish-fulfillment. In some magical fashion expecting the least from a group will not result in people living down to it — as it has in the schools, the gettos, the teens.
No! Through the action of some unknown agent the RNC will suddenly say: Let’s be Conservative & Constitutional today!
That’s why they attack Joy and others who ask questions. They scream “Obama Lover! Obama’s gonna kill us all!” and drawing sabre blindly charge.
You can tell these people from the sane but passonate McCain supporters by one of their behaviours: if McCain loses, it won’t be HIS fault, its YOURS!
I have no problem with passionate McCain people. My CO & I have long discussions, and he’s one. We both enjoy our talks. I poke fun at the others, because I hope it will break their fey mood.
I think that’s the core of it. They’re fey, in the classic sense. Having no historical perspective, they’re afraid they’re going to die, (in the political sense). It has robbed them of the ability to do anything but act rude, senseless and classless — just like the flowerchildren from my younger days.
Well, I’ve gotten far-afield. What I *was* going to say will have to wait until after my meetings.
None of us is perfect. There’s only been one man who was, and as you know they crucified Him.
Any and every man has imperfections. Politicians, as a whole, seem to have more of them than others
But I have faith that the next President of the United States will be a real Christian.
Every candidate wants the votes of America’s largest voting block (Values Voters). Most candidates this year profess to be a Christian. If they confess “I am a Christian” but can’t confess “Jesus is Lord”, then they are a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Confessing “Jesus is Lord” is a requirement of being a true Christian. If you don’t confess Him before men, you are denying Him before men, and that means you aren’t saved and aren’ a true Christian.
Jesus is Lord!
Precisely why this nation needs a conservative, constitutionalist who isn’t owned by the New World Order Big Money like McCain and Obama are…
America needs Dr. Chuck Baldwin, and we are to blinded by the MSM’s glitter-filled worship of the two-party tyranny’s menace to vote for the one man who would put the oligarchists out of DC on a rail.
http://www.baldwin08.com
So rewarding the democrats, who are promising to socialize entire industries, promising to lose us the war on islamist terrorism, promising to set up a nanny state with entitlement programs that you will have to pry away from peoples cold dead fingers, promising to push our national debt over our GDP which will effectively render our dollar worthless, promising to keep us hooked on foreign oil, promising to keep abortion legal and even expand them, promising to gut the military, promising to get more and more people hooked on big government which will accelerate this “slide” you speak of… That will somehow get the USA back to this mythical conservative utopia that you speak of.
“Attack”. It is amazing to me how some so called conservatives can be so sensitive. The idea that McCain is for “killing babies” is a lie. He is pro life and has a record to back it up. It is that idea that is attacked, especially because it effectively endorses someone who is proven to be on the side of, quite literally baby killing. So is anything other then calling a stupid idea “smart” an attack? Or is the standard just disagreeing with ideas that you agree with.
At the core of it in my case is the recognition that an Obama presidency will fundamentally alter this country in ways that will prove to be irreversible. At the core of it is a realization that you do not gain influence by throwing elections. At the core of it is a line of dedication to the USA since 1688 and the Constitution since 1787 that I will not break faith with. At the core of it is an old promise to defend this country from all enemies and MY promises don’t end.
Remember that the next time you go on about urinating in plants, screwing up someone else’s name or taking up half the forum with your double spaced “look at me” diatribes Mr.flowerchild. You are in no position to be lecturing about manners.
g0nna be Cantor, he is practicing his speech
this is subterfuge from within, people inside trying to get their man in, which means a disunited campaign
Bill Grant - The reason I usually just skip over your posts is that you seem to completely ignore any faults McCain has. You are totally blind. You can’t even imagine why anyone would actually scrutinize him.
And you are wrong. He has floated the idea of selecting a Dem or Pro-Abortion candidate and if you don’t know that, then your are willfully ignorant.
And I think even you recognize, although you refuse to admit it, that if he is willing to do that, he is not as pro-life as he claims.
And Martin’s description of you and others urinating in our lovely hostesses plants is extremely fitting.
franksalterego has gone so far as to compare MM with terrorists for questioning McCain’s dangerous laisons and policies.
But MM is actually 100% correct: there truly is scant difference between the two scions of our mnay-times over corrupted two-party system of tyranny.
The “Maverick” is beholden to his controllers at the CFR and corporate interests; Obama is beholden to socialist money; both are beholden to George Soros.
If anyone is smiling at this election - which is like trying to pick up the clean side of a pile of dog droppings - it will be ol’ George Soros.
Does it tell anybody else anything that McCain had to send out “push back” people to conservative sites just like team Oabam did?
You know what would be poetic justice?
If Soros was found guilty of, and jailed for, violating some part of McCain-Feingold!
On August 20th, 2008 at 4:28 pm, Joy said:
Not at all. I am just balancing them out with his attributes and measuring them by his opponent. Additionally, since the guy can’t get a break here you are assigning “faults” that are not fair or even based in any kind of objective reality. “Tossing babies under the bus” is not a campaign platform that McCain is running on. It is not fair or cute to say that. Indeed, it is a toxic lie.
Firstly, he is pro life. Secondly, his opponent has voted against aiding live babies that have survived an abortion. (Really, what more do you need to know?) Thirdly if he were nominate someone from a state that he needs to win who is against your views would that mean that you effectively endorse Obama?
I wouldn’t care if he did to be absolutely clear. The VP has no say in policy making. Additionally, congress writes the laws. McCains effect on Abortion will be to nominate a judge who will vow to enforce the constitution, not interpret it.
Your choice is someone who vows to appoint judges who know Roe v Wade is bad law or someone who voted for partial birth abortion and for allowing abortion survivors to be tossed in the trash.
Yet hysterics and rants about McCain tossing babies under moving vehicles and Onesies are just dandy.
I think our hostess has made the cynical calculation that McCain hit-pieces get more traffic to this blog, therefore you are going to get every scrap of speculation, rumor or innuendo about a good man who is the last line of defense against a Democratic controlled Legislative branch, Executive branch and supreme court. That would be an unmitigated disaster for the country. Compounded by the fact that it was partially brought about by people who were willing to let it happen because they were duped in to thinking they were helping to somehow advance conservative principles. In other words, you are going to end up getting the exact opposite of what you supposedly want by following the course of action that you rant against others for not following.
On August 20th, 2008 at 4:50 pm, Doo2 said:
Any evidence of that? There was a link on Littlegreenfootballs a while back about the democratic underground infiltrating “conservative” blogs to post talking points smiler to the ones you see here constantly. You know… To keep the bitter gun clingers at home on election day…
Use Fred Thompson’s solution:
No limits, anyone can give any amount they want to anyone they want.
But it must be reported within 24 hours, and all giving is a matter of open public record. This includes the personal source of the money, like funders of the 527s.
Complete transparency. If our politicians are being bought (and they are), we should at least know by whom and for how much.
That would expose all the tendrils of Soros and his minions.
How true, that says it all.
that picture is just plain scary…like the obamination is the messiah…NOT…without a teleprompter he can’t string a sentence or thought together….he wins we are screwed…
athling - I see the ad hominem… still hear loud crickets chirping to my question.
I’m not at all surprised.
For people who claim to be for McCain, you all are certainly doing a lot of damage to him. Congrats! Keep up the good work!
Pot. Kettle. Black.
You really need to go take your meds.
PASLMS….2008-2012
Obama Is My Shepherd, I Shall Not Want.
He Leadeth Me Beside Still Factories,
He Restoreth My Faith In The Republican Party,
He Guideth Me In The Paths Of Unemployment.
Yea, Though I Walk Through The Valley Of The Bread Line, I Shall Not Go
Hungry.
Obama Has Anointed My Income With Taxes,
My Expenses Runneth Over My Income,
Surely, Poverty And Hard Living Will Follow Me All The Days Of My Life.
The Democrats And I Will Live Forever In a Rented Room.
But I Am Glad I Am an American,
I Am Glad That I Am Free.
But I Wish I Was A Dog
And Obama A Tree.
My number 1 issue is the War. I care about other issues like taxes and immigration & abortion but I think that sending men & women in harms way and killing untold numbers of the enemy and innocent civilians (some are not so innocent) that get caught up in the crossfire is unacceptable to me. Why are we fighting a war half a$$?
If you make the decision as a country to go to war,(and we DID because we elected President Bush and we allow our elected leaders to make those kind of decisions), we should do so with all our heart & soul, not half of it. More people die everyday because of our hesitation and second guessing of our motives. This only helps the enemy and it is disgusting (yes , traitorous), to undermine our effort like the Democratic Party leadership and their followers have. I believe they are also doing it for political gain and that disgusts me even more.
My issue dictates that John McCain is my man. I think he is the only one of the 2 possible candidates who will fight this war fully, including fighting those at home who can’t pick the US over Terrorism but who pick the Democrat party over the US, IMO.
He is not who I wanted. I don’t like his Global Warming Hysteria, his stance on immigration etc. However, on every issue, when I do a SWOT analysis, McCain is the winner over Obama. Every issue! And on most issues, it’s not even close.
This whole, “I am not going to vote for him to send him a message”, “to let the US disintegrate so I can prove I was right”, “to show the world how liberalism will destroy the US”, etc, I just can’t grasp. It is illogical to me.
I can understand the “I vote for who I want”, “Its my vote”, “I like so & so even though they can’t win”, “You can’t blame me” arguments. People in this country are allowed to vote or not vote as they wish. I can wish they wouldn’t wouldn’t cut their nose off to spite their face but hey, it’s a free country.
My issue leaves me little choice but I get the best I can get. I do not toe the Party line of either party. There are many reasons I would like to have people help me with my issue and get McCain elected and I truly wish for that not because I like McCain that much but because my choices are limited and McCain is my better choice of the TWO candidates.
When you throw the George Soros connection into the mix, Whoa nellie! This guy uses money to influence politics in the entire world, pure & simple. That scares me. I do not trust his motive & intent. McCain looks like a sweet rose next to that poison ivy and his tumbleweed surrogates.
atheling - I see on another thread you attempt to convince people of the love of God the same way you try to convince people to vote for your candidate.
I’d add the lol, but it really isn’t funny, it’s just sad.
What is funny is the lengths you’re willing to go to to avoid answering my question.
T-Bone - I can respect your position. And you’ve got to do what your conscience tells you. But the final analysis for me is that voting the LOTE is still voting for evil.
I’m not withholding my vote to ‘teach’ anyone a lesson. I must withhold my vote because of my conscience. Can you really not understand that?
Joy:
You’re not worth the effort. Like I said, you need meds, not debate. Re-read your comments. If they are not an example of “unhinged”, nothing is.
Good luck.
Joy,
I understand totally. To each his own. I just feel so strongly about my own position that I wish I could sway you in order to further my cause.
If abortion were my main issue for example and neither candidate convinced me they would further my main issue, then I could not vote for either and I would feel good about that decision.
The end game of that of course is that I vote in secret (I think), and no one need ever know what I really did.
BTW, McCain was forced on me because he was already chosen before CA even voted!
I would add that the other choices were not all that hot either but everyone except Ron Paul had my back on the war.
I see the back & forth on who should vote for who etc. Decisions based on conscience etc are valid to me. It is logical. To “send a message”, not so much.
In the end, I can’t get too worked up one way or the other. I only have 1 vote (and my neighbor or spouse or friend will probably cancel that out very quickly). I don’t contribute much money or time either. I do try to keep myself informed so I am not a complete stupido. (excuse my Spanglish). Thats all I can do.
atheling -
If I’m not worth the effort, why do you keep posting to me?
I take it you’re not going to answer the question. You could have just said as much instead of using avoidence tactics 101.
McCain and RNC Blitzkrieg
Follow that up with
A Choice Not an Echo: The inside story of how American Presidents are chosen
Back-Room Deals
I am ashamed to admit that I wasn’t paying attention when the Values Voters Debate was held.
It is worth noting, however, that the four men who chose not to attend are the same four men who ensured that John McCain is now our “presumptive nominee”.
Thompson was McCain’s stalking horse in SC (to ensure that McCain, not Huckabee, won SC).
Giuliani was McCain’s stalking horse in FL (to ensure that McCain, not Romney, won FL).
Romney broke his February 5th promise to fight “all the way to the convention”. Why? Because McCain offerred Romney the VP slot on February 6th in return for Romney quitting the race and working to make Huckabee quit.
Give me a better explanation for why Romney broke his promise less than 48 hours after he made it, and quit saying the equivalent of “if we all don’t quit and coronate John McCain right now, then we are aiding a surrender to terrorism”.
Seriously, tell me why Romney quit. And then explain why he “released” his delegates to McCain a week later.
I am not a Romney fan, but both Romney fans and I wanted Romney to keep going! McCain was running out of public money, and as Michelle noted, McCain was dangerously close to being hoisted by his own petard.
Picture a race where Romney kept going, McCain ran out of money, and no candidate reached 1191 pledged delegates. We’d be going into our convention not knowing for sure who our nominee will be…
…just like the Democrats.
Hopefully, we won’t take the Poison Pill. That only works for those Evil Corporations that provide most of us a living.
Great illustration of my point/criticism. McCain is clearly not the conservatives conservative. So that means he and Obama are the same? Hardly.
How is it an exercise of conscience to force the rest of us to pay higher taxes, have more invasive government and move toward more and more socialism because McCain isn’t conservative enough for you? Forcing me to pay more taxes is hardly an act the is commendable as an act of conscience on your part.
Potentially putting a man in office and a hole administration who is 100% pro-choice and supports abortion because you don’t think McCain is good enough for you is hardly a commendable act of conscience.
There are huge, significant and important differences between John McCain and Obama. Not participating in the vote to do everything we can to keep Obama out of office is hardly defined by “an act of conscience”.
Your conscience will be clear, then your wallet, then your home furnishings, and of course your womb will always be available for clearance.
Clear as a bell to me.
The Rs are the new Ds… Clear as a bell to me.
Most of the Ds don’t comprehend b. Hussein is a Marxist anymore than you comprehend McCain is a Socialist. And you’ll continue to not comprehend even when your guy is a Marxist too.
Keep on swimming, you’ll be completely boiled soon. And those of us taking a real stand will continue to do so and probably end up saving your hides when the time comes. And then you’ll be glad some of us did jump out of the pot.
What color is the sky in your little world?
Right now it’s dark and raining. Hopefully tomorrow will be sunny. :o]
The Hillary HoldOut site “No Quarter USA” has more fun stuff on Obama and ACORN -
Money Laundering Scandal? (UPDATED)
And that’s a sad commentary on the state of the “R”, Joy.
McCain loves HRC so much, that I think he and she are working together to get her the Dem nomination at the DNC. Something is up. Something is definitely up.
I dunno about the Hillary-McJohn love thing, Vicki, but seeing Chicago ‘68 being replayed next week would make for some good popcorn-munching time!
The Russians have a long history of infiltrating our government.
Exhibit A:
Exhibit B:
The ChiComs, eager and willing to do “whatever it takes” (including cheat) to win, are also in on this spying game.
We can’t ignore the Russian and Chinese influence in this election.
In my opinion, it appears that the Russians are supporting Barack Hussein Obama II (a.k.a Barry Soetoro). Note Russia’s participation as an observer of the “57 state” Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC).
Remember when Obama told women of the press not to wear green?
In my opinion, it appears that the Chinese Communists (ChiComs) are supporting Hillary Rodham Clinton. Think Norman Hsu.
Now, what does it say to you when John McCain takes money from George Soros (who is also heavily involved in the Obama campaign)?
What does it say to you when John McCain is so “cozy” with Hillary Clinton?
In my opinion, it says that the communists are hedging their bets, so that no matter what happens in November, they win.
We cannot overlook the fact that McCain was a POW under Communist control for many years.
We must take an honest look at John McCain’s record and ask how different that record is from the Communist agenda for America.
Amnesty for 20 million “Proletariat”?
Check.
AGW taxes?
Check.
Attacks on the “Ultra-Right“?
Check.
John McCain is not our nominee yet. We won’t have a nominee until our convention. If John McCain doesn’t have the courage to do a 1-on-1 interview with Michelle Malkin, giving “Straight Talk” answers to tough questions, then the connections to George Soros and other Socialists/Communists goes uncontested and I believe he is not worthy of the Republican nomination. We have one shot to get this right.
I don’t want a “choice” (”echo”, really) of the lesser of two Communists.
Here’s my question. How much of Obama’s $300-odd million in campaign contributions have come from Soros-backed groups? Obviously, the contributions under $200 will never be reported, so we’re never going to know how many of those contributions are legitimate. But apparently over half of his contributions were over the $200 reporting threshold. That’s what I think we really need to investigate.
Any Democratic presidential candidate would try to throw money to leftist activist groups like Moveon and ACORN. That’s not at all surprising. And shame on McAmnesty for taking their money, too!
I think we are missing the big picture: all these fat, newly funded “charities” will provide nice fat money calves for the reemergence of AIR AMERICA!!
Of course, in addition to outright stealing from the charities in question, “President” Obama would make it a publicly funded enterprise, NPR/PBS-like, to try (once again) to overcome extremely popular talk radio.
The new Democrat mantra: if the people like it, tax it (or legislate it out of existence, a la the “Fairness” Doctrine), and if they don’t like it, subsidize it!
Can you say BBC?
When I’m logged in, my comment at 6:29 am this morning shows up as comment #161 and Outlander’s comment at 7:39 am is #162.
When I’m not logged in, my comment does not appear and Outlander’s comment at 7:39 am is #161.
Why is that?
Is my comment awaiting moderation?
So McCain and Obama are both using funds and influence put in place by Soros. I haven’t heard the term “Puppet Master”, but wouldn’t that apply based on your article?
Why you’ve seen the light! You realize that the McCain CarbonTax would reach into every nook & cranny of a person’s life and raise the regulation thereof! You obviously also remember McCain’s excessive profits remark, his quip about CEO saleries, and the host of others.
Wow, glad that fence was built!
No terrorist will just
walkdrive in a semi across the border with a dirty bomb or suitcase nuke, or even a EMP device now!Everybody thought McCain would just do quick cosmetic fixes, but look! he’s built the border fence in 7 days, and all by himself, too! Paul Bunyan, hang your head!
Well, he’s certainly helped to keep that Social Security trust fund alive with his leadership against privatization! I guess he’ll have his friends across the isle from him work to just repeal Social Security, right?
Carbon Tax
ANWAR, all the positions he’s echoed of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s
I’d be willing to grant you this point, but:
Have you searched on “Wisconsin” and “McCain” yet? How do you explain away that?
Well, since you haven’t, despite repeated urgings, let me quote & point you to an overview:
here, but the section below explains the piece quite weel:
He was ranking member of Committees that oversaw the military during the Clinton years. When Clinton was gutting the military why didn’t he say anything? When the CIA needed him? Actually, he was absent in the whole lead-up to the war. What about the “McCain-ACLU”, or as its called the “Anti-torture” amendment? That, at its heart makes the assumption that we use torture as a matter of course, when I don’t concede we’ve ever used it! How about closing Guantanamo Bay?
So, let me try to understand this. He supports CFR, which is an attack on the 1st amendment, he wants to take excessive profits from oil companies, he thinks that company executive get too much compensation and wants to take that, he supports Big Education, subs to farmers, alternative energy,expansion of American with Disabilities Act, The McCain-Snowe-Dorgan S. 2328, amnesty, calling the Swiftboat Vets “dishonest and dishonorable”… there are more.
How about some class warfare?
Perhaps you’d like some quotes:
Or How about some Liberal Democrat love:
Well, I can certainly see why he’d visit D’s big-wigs to see about switching to a “D”
Please explain how the following bills express anything other than a Liberal POV:
McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy, “McCain-Byrd” (the gang of 14 deal), McCain-Lieberman, McCain-Kennedy-Edwards .
Wow, for someone who screams bloody muder saying that words are put in his mouth, you sure have no trouble doing that to me.
My Dad asked for discussion on this. You, atheling, and your sockpuppets attacked. I started to take over Dad’s political discussions, so I’ve read the archives. I pointed out, in the comment that has twisted your panties, that the LOTE strategy is harmful in the same way that Low Expectation policies for education harm kids. If you expect the least from people, you are never disappointed — they give you the least.
Where did I say that? Find it for me, will you… I must have been sleep blogging.
Perhaps. Since I never said he killed babies, but just shilled for Planned Parenthood, I don’t know what you mean. That he shilled for PP is obvious from the information I linked to above.
Wow. I did that? When? I see you “Atta-boy”-ing a post
that calls all people who have a problem with McCain RINOs.
So, were do we start? At what point do we draw that line in the sand? Where do we make our stand?
Well, if browbeating everyone who disagrees, telling them that any choice but your choice will destroy this country, proudly standing up for a candidate who’s biggest lifetime legal achievement is crafting a law that circumscribes political speech, calls those who have honest disagreement “bigots” is not breaking faith with the point of everything the Founding Fathers wrote, I truly am sorry. All I’ve done is point out that though JM says he’s one way, he’s “seen the light”, there are plenty of instances where his past performance says otherwise.
Here an honest, non-snarky question: I hear everyone who is urging me to vote for JM that is Lifetime Rate at the CU is “X”, (doesn’t matter what “X” is for the validity of my argument…). I won’t argue that a high rating is a good thing. However, what are the trends? Have you graphed his yearly rating? Does it show an increase in what we want or a decrease? Is there a sharp change in direction, and if so when and what environmental factors could have accounted for the shift? Using a macro-index to predict a trend can bankrupt you. In some cases, it can even kill you.
These are the things I think about, and how I approach problems. I do this for everyone I vote for. I really, literally laugh when people like atheling, franksalterego, and you accuse me of being uninformed. Have you done this level of homework? You don’t argue like it. When you have done this level of homework on JN, or Obummer or anyone else. You & your friends accuse people you don’t like of being off their meds, of being lazy, stupid, closet Obummer supporters, etc. When someone finally has enough and responds in kind your panties get a twist. It simply won’t enter your mind that someone can disagree w/you and not be for Obummer. Like those who are against gay marriage/NEA/income redistribution/illegal aliens getting super-citizen rights are homophobes/stupid/greedy/bigots. You tolerate no dissent while proclaiming you are the dissenters. That’s sort of Alinsky, isn’t it? Is that really the viewpoint you want to project? How does that help JN?
Then stop assassinating MM character. What have you done that can compare?
I’m much too old to have been a flowerchild. Knowing my Dad’s age range, how long I’ve been studing the culture, and the fact that I voted for Nixon 3 times should have clued you in. I guess math & logic aren’t your strong suit.
I also find it interesting where you break your quote of me off, ignoring the points about twitting newbies, assassinating MM character, and all the snarky-nasty comments about how she’s an enemy. And my answer is the same: if you don’t like it, turn the channel. It does seem, though, that you’d rather tell her and other what to post.
As for the formatting of my posts this week, as I wrote in one of the forums, I was trying out my Dad’s method of using his LifeDrive PDA, because I was off Quarters and back at work part-time. My employer frowns on using their computer for political work, but I have large sections where I am waiting for someone else, classic “hurry up and wait” as it were, where I can go online with my own computer.
As I posted in one of the threads, I’ve found it unacceptable to use the PDA, and a large part of that is because of the formatting issue and the way it narrows to a tiny window what I can read. For example, if I want to read something higher on the thread I have to reload the whole site. And the “Preview” button doesn’t work.
But, with you Form trumps Substance.
I stand by my comments about you and your peanut gallery I made to allrsn.
I have no problem discussing differences with allrsn, T-Bone, quite a few others on this site, my CO — all principled people voting McCain. You, atheling, franksalterego, jsmiddleton4 all present a false choice: “my way or the highway!” argument where you invert, browbeat, belittle anyone who raises a question about your candidate. If McCain loses, it will be MM, Joy’s Limbaugh’s, my fault. In short, anyone’s fault but his. The exact same methods used by the Left and are those currently being used by both the Obamanation and Hilary. Are you going to argue they aren’t using them? Are you going to argue they’re different when you use them? Are you going to argue that you aren’t using them. If you choose the last, there are lots and lots of your posts that will gainsay you.
I’ve went to the trouble of answering your post, point-by-point, and hope you’ll do the same.
I might have expressed some unearned animosity toward you. If I have, I most humbly apologize. I guess I just keep remembering when reading through the archives, I found the responses you, atheling, irose, franksalterego, and some of the others made to Da’s query: “The Question”. It was, and still is a valid question. I still see you answering valid questions the same way.
I have no loyalty to party. If what you say advances the goals of the Constitution, I’ll support you. I have cheered atheling, irose, even you when what was said was right. In atheling’s case, I’ve even taken her part against those you’d lump as friends with, (unless I misremember, there’s a whole month that’s just a fuzzy blur to me…)
This is very long, and I’m sorry about that. I just do not see how your accusations could be answered in less space. Maybe See-dubya could give me pointers, because I’d certainly like to get good at this.
Scratch that Bush has gotta be the blame for this, and insert Carl Rove masterminded the operation.
martin jr - The biggest bravo ever to your post #166. Very… well… done.
Thanks, Joy!
Unfortunately I am uncertain that Bill or the others will respond in the same spirit, assuming they respond at all.
On another note:
There has been a change in Dad’s status, an improvement! He’s gone from a type 1 to a type 2 coma!
There was an accidental mixup in his IV meds, (a “same name” error…) and it almost killed him.
As we came out of that, Dad’s new friend, the Dr. who warned us about the Head-of-Dept at the original hospital’s Euthanasic Enthusiasms came by and after some tests gave us the good news!
Because of my attention to Dad & the recuperation from my tumble down the stairs I’m swamped w/paperwork. That incl.s a couple of OPRs that must be re-edited and sent up the chain by tomorrow. I am going to post a status report bringing everything up to date by 2100h Sat., 23Aug. If you’re curious, look for it then on Dad’s board.
In Dad’s journal on his political work, your mentioned as being LDS. Is that correct?
You have posted 3427 characters on this page… About a 3rd of the content.
Sigh. I am going to have to attack this in bites but I susoect that it is worthless because you are just going to hear what you wish to.
McCains carbon tax is DOA. It has no support in either house, in either party. It is a non issue. Even if it were to pass unaltered (which it never, ever will) it would certainly not reach into every nook & cranny of a person’s life any more then any other consumption tax. Again, even he isn’t really pushing it.
Socializing health care has support in both the Senate and the house as well as the American population. Once you get hooked on socialism it is next to impossible to get rid of it.
Focus: War on islamist terrorism being fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. The ones we would have lost had we left it to the democrats who made the cynical political calculation that they would get more percentage points in the polls by losing a war that they voted for and blaming it on Bush. That is treason and it got Americans killed. That is what you will be rewarding with an Obama presidency. Further you will be rewarding the tactics of Murtha who called our Marines and Soldiers murderers and John Kerry who called them terrorists You will be rewarding the Kos kids who celebrated American deaths and used it to bludgeon the Bush Administration for standing up to the criminals behind 9/11. You will be rewarding George Soros who has spent billions to drag the USA in to the dirt through socialism, appeasement and the destruction of American sovereignty. You will be giving unchecked power to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid who fought against the surge and the general behind it calling it a failure and endorsing language that called him a traitor. You will be endorsing the stupid, criminally incompetent, surrendering, cowardly and un-American approach that Obama advocated which would have lost us the war in Iraq.
This may seem a fine price to pay for your continued tantrum but I honestly have a tough time calling it anything but traitorous as well.
Ill have at the rest of the tome later. (Hopefully the cliffs notes will get published)
Yes the same was said about the drug bill and McCain-Feingold. I note that both are now law.
Yes. The Left did that. I watched it unfold, with my unit, from Iraq.
How nice. I had thought you were off to a great start, but those personal attacks just keep coming.
You use the pejorative “tantrum”, but you respond to my links of information with accusations and emotionalism.
For someone who very little good to say about MM, you certainly are concerned about the space I take up on her site. How laudable. I think, however, that we can let Michelle worry about that, especially since that comment was to her, and not you. BTW, that points up one of the exact things I am speaking about. By what authority do you set yourself up as a gatekeeper for acceptable speech, both its content and its length? What business is it of yours to stand in judgment of anyone on this site, much less the hostess as to what speech is acceptable?
But, to concede the point: if the amount of space worries you, click on my name and we’ll take it there. You can even invite your support group along, I won’t mind. And I promise not to limit your speaking space.
But to address the reason for the length: I quoted you in full whenever possible in order to avoid the accusation that I answered the “easy questions” or took you out of context. I thought the step necessary after recognizing your debating style detailed in a series by Phillip Ellis Jackson called “Looney Liberal Chronicles” on a website I enjoy http://www.intellectualconservative.com
The 2nd part of the quote is even more interesting coming on the heels of your “cut & snip” above. You might just want to include the important part of that statement set:
You didn’t address that. I can’t understand why, do you not think that walking a bomb across the border important?
I don’t know if I can help you see this. You seem to be a good, usually thoughtful person. If I did didn’t think so, I’d be editing an OPR to send to Randolf instead of trading slaps in the face using flounders with you.
Regardless of what you think of Joy’s emotional delivery, she is correct about that the soft conservatives are adopting the Alinsky tactics of the Left. That was how I was able to ID your debating style from Jackson’s essays. We won’t win if you use those tactics because once a non-activist, (a regular person) realizes how they’ve been browbeaten and manipulated they will never be swayed by your arguments. Never. You cannot guarantee control of the flow of information. This is where the Left made their mistake, and we can turn it around. IF we had a leader instead of poll-followers we could illustrate how the Left has manipulated the bulk of the citizenry. Once we show them that, that all for Liberalism for 2 generations. I make that projection because of the backlash that even a little exposure of the Alinsky method has caused. We have a small window, but we can do it.
As bad as the O’bomber & Co are, we’ll survive it because the head of the party won’t be someone who was trying to become the a member of the other party. We still won’t control the information, but since we acted in good faith we can still convince the general public. If McCain wins by people of your stripe using the same methods as Hillary and O’bomber the public will find out. When they do, we’ll loose their trust. Loose the trust of the bulk of the citizenry because they’ve been manipulated using the Left’s methods, you won’t ever sway them.
Well, I need to get back to work and edit those OPRs, or my CO will hand me my head tomorrow afternoon.
Looking forward to a continued discussion.
Mike Musculus
OK, part 1.
No body said that McCain/Feingold wasn’t a priority of John McCains and the drug bill was not his.
And somehow you wouldn’t mind empowering the people who sent you out on a limb and sought to cut it out from behind you.
It is an attack on the position that you are taking. The statement makes it clear that I am trying to not let it spill over on to an attack on your personal character.
This is a site that is supposedly advancing the cause of conservatism (although it obviously isn’t) yet many of the posters here expect me to see their positions in endless shades of gray. The way I see this particular issue is that we have enemies that have attacked us and slaughtered thousands of Americans. Those enemies need to be defeated. We have had a segment of our population that has sought to bring about OUR defeat against those enemies for their own political gain. In doing so they have gotten Americans killed. That, in essence makes them our enemies. Therefore they need to be defeated. Not rewarded, not given more power. (Break that logic, that is at the heart of this particular argument for McCain. McCain did not break faith, his opponents did. The other arguments can be addressed.)
So, If I have hurt someones inner child here it is only because it is frustrating that there are still people who still haven’t realized that they are enabling those who have worked to injure this country and embolden what I believe are evil things that have demonstrated that they want us all dead. It is also because I have a strong suspision that some are doing this not out of ignorance but out of calculation. It is also because I am a crusty old bastard. Deal with it.
For many on this site that is what their arguments have devolved in to. They wanted Fred Thompson or Mike Huckabee or Ronald Reagan’s corpse and they are not coming in off the ledge until they get what they want. It isn’t going to happen and the only thing standing in between Obama as president of the USA is John McCain. That is where we are and that is what we have to work with. Full stop.
Well that hurts my feelings. Now you have done it, I am going to vote Obama to destroy the country. That ought to show you kuz you are a big meanie. (that’s basically what I see written here over and over.)
I used to have quite a lot of good things to say about MM. Regardless, the issue was refuting the Manhattan phone book. Again, snippets with links. People will get the gist.
Not “accepted”. Freedom of speech is not the freedom to insist on agreement. That is true for both of us. YOUR freedom of speech will not impinge on MY freedom of speech (until I get tossed out)to point out that I believe that you are either incorrect, self defeating, a blow hard or whatever. If you wish to state the same thing about me I will endeavor not to dry up like a salted slug.
I have been called a RINO, Socialist and a baby tosser among other things, usually by people who are unwittingly enabling all of the above. Again, I am judging the ideas. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall, only by what you have posted here.
The hostess has been incredibly unfair toward the only candidate that can stop the slide toward a USA that is indistinguishable from a Canada or a United Kingdom. A sovereignty surrendering also ran that would rather be “liked” then respected or grudgingly admired.
?
Mike - I hadn’t read on here for a few weeks and when I came back I was going on the assumption that you were your dad. Until in one of your posts you pointed it out.
I totally missed that your dad is in a coma! I believe he can probably hear you, so please tell him I say hello and he will be in my prayers. You can also tell him I think you’re doing a bang-up job defending the Constitution around here!
Some Rs don’t realize they aren’t conservative anymore and are now Ds that are called Rs… sheeesh
And I fully agree that abandoning our principles and lowering ourselves to the D strategy utterly fail. How can you convince people you have something better to offer, when you act just like your opponent?
I’m not aware of your Dad’s board… addy please? I’d love to read his ongoing thoughts.
And yes, LDS. November will be 5 years. :o]
Part 2.
I have other, real life obligations and I said I would revisit this thread when they were attended to.
Yes, I think it is very important. The question is what is to be done about it, right? Whomever we elect we will need to push toward immigration reform and border security. That will hold true for McCain or Obama. It is unfortunate that I can not have someone running who thinks exactly the way I think but human beings are different and have come to different conclusions. Therefore If I strongly believe in something like border security I am going to have to work for it. John McCain’s positions on border security are closer to mine then Barack Obamas. His positions on EVERYTHING are closer. Not identical but closer. It will take less pushing to bring McCain to a position I can live with. I intend to push which is what I should have been doing with Bush.
Obama will just write me off as a gun clinging racist.
Seeing as that I am a Republican, a conservative I am McCains base. He will and has listened to his base in the past. This means electing him but then also keeping the pressure on him and congress. Re. immigration I have floated the name of a good PAC that will help organize us and help to push for tighter security but all these conservatives here couldn’t care less about actually doing anything constructive evidentially, they just want to whine, which is inherently un-conservative.
I am immune to flounder slaps. Try a bigger fish.
What is a “soft” conservative? Who is judging now?
The debate style is called “fisking”. I am not the only one who argues point by point like this. Indeed, it is common.
Break my argument. Find the chink. Prove me wrong. At this point there are some people who just aren’t going to see the obvious. Should I tell them that it is OK? Seriously. Isn’t this moral relativism that you are advocating that I adopt an inherently liberal position? If I see something wrong should I pretend that it is right or just less wrong so feelings don’t get hurt? Isn’t that…wrong?
In terms of “Alinsky tactics” are you trying to say that I am a cloaked leftist or that I am wrong in believing that conservatives will have more of an effect if they can work within the system that we helped set up rather then abandoning it for something that was thought up on the window ledge as a product of MDS?
So it becomes clear, finally. You are one of those that believes that defeat will purify the republican party and you are going to work for such a defeat so you can rebuild it in your own image. Right?
If so it is a fundamentally BAD idea.
Firstly, it was originally floated by a PR firm hired by the DNC (supposedly Hill and Knowlton) as a way to keep the right wing rubes on their tractors for Election Day. It was floated as a way to split the hard right off the Republican Party as a way of getting Hillary Clinton elected. It looks like it has gotten traction with Obama.
Secondly, at it’s core it is fundamentally anti-American. What you are hoping for is that electing idiots who will cause this country great harm will horrify people into running away from the Democratic Party. In short you are hoping for a mess so you can pin it on them, just like Reid and Obama were hoping for us to lose in Iraq so they could pin it on Bush. This country cannot move forward or survive if 50% of the population is rooting for calamity in order to pin it on the other 50%.
Thirdly, we are at a juncture in our countries history where we can not afford to have a calamity. We are 10 trillion in debt on a 13 trillion GDP and we are fighting a 2 front war. If we lose to islamist terrorists now it will just mean more attacks coasting the lives of more Americans. If that is something that you are willing to risk in order to get your way that puts you in the same boat with the leftists. We can’t afford a gargantuan entitlement program and once they are started they are nearly impossible to takeaway.
Socialism is designed to perpetuate socialism. It gets people hooked on government. Allow it to start and it is very difficult, or impossible to roll back. (Show me an entitlement program that the people have willingly given up)
LASTLY: YOU DO NOT GAIN INFLUENCE BY LOSING ELECTIONS. You lose it. It is just that simple.
My stripe? Just what is “my stripe”?
Maybe you need to spell this out. Do you think I am part of some kind of conspiracy? Do you think I have lied or sought to keep you in the dark about something? I am not a liar. If you can find something that is false point it out to me.
I am not doing that. “Manipulation” in this context carries with it an air of dishonesty. I am just trying to use logic and reason with people who seem to have given it up.
Hitting the rack soon, good night.
One more thing, I am very sorry to hear about your father and I hope he comes out of it soon. I suspect that with his sons thoroughness and attention to detail he is well taken care of. Remember that people DO recover from this and stay strong. Again, sorry to hear about your dad.
Bill, I would say that the people ‘giving up’ are the one’s voting for McCain.
And for the record, I’m as unflappable person as you’re likely to encounter. Any ‘emotion’ you read into my posts is pure projection.
Mike is talking about your debate style of bullying and calling people names. Think of how Dems ‘debate’ and you’ll better understand how you and many other Rs have learned from them and are now using those same tactics because they are trying to defend supporting an unacceptable candidate.
It reads just like the loony lefties who try to defend supporting b. Hussein. You can no longer effectively debate the LGMs and Rustys because you’re acting in the same manner and defending a lost cause just as they are.
I take it you’re a McCain guy from the git go, which is maybe why you can’t see him as he really is.
Yes, but you say that without grounding in the reality of the situation. You say that completely unable to articulate an argument as to how that is so. Indeed, it does not make sense.
No, I am quite satisfied that I am not giving up. Indeed I am vowing to continue the fight another day. Allowing Barack Obama to become president is true capitulation. I am going to vote for McCain and work to hold his feet to the fire. That is not giving up or compromising at all.
Like baby tosser? Where have I bullied or called anyone names? I simply refuse to pretend a bad idea is a good one. If you can persuade me that an Idea that I think is good is actually bad then have at it. You haven’t even attempted to do so.
Break my argument. Come up with a counterargument. That is a debate. Simply declaring McCain to be “unacceptable” and then calling someone a baby killer when they tell you that you are cutting your own throat if you think electing Obama will help any conservative principles is not debating. Again, if you think it is “bullying” that I am not going to pretend that it is or that I will start pretending that you are not cutting your own throat because you say that I am using “democrat tactics” that has more to do with your inability to come up with a rational counterargument then it does with me stating the obvious.
Indeed, it is a liberal tactic to see only what one wishes to see and to jamb ones fingers in their ears when they are confronted with something that challenges their perceptions. You wouldn’t want anyone to say that you were using tactics that the liberals taught you?
So it must be easy for you to find the error in my reasoning. Why wont you? Go ahead. If I sound “Loony” tell me were I am being “Loony” and I will try to stop being loony. Otherwise you might have to accept that what I am saying might make some sense.
I am defending the United States. I will never accept that is a “lost cause”.
I take it you are an Obama girl from the git go, which is why you will not allow yourself to see that that it is essential that we elect McCain.
Bill - The points have been made. Over and over. It is you who refuses to even attempt to understand what people of my stripe and ilk are saying. See, those words are not insults, like idiot and traitor and many others you use.
I have a friend who is extreemly bullheaded and totally self-centered. He has even told me his strategy to get what he wants. If someone puts up an argument or a road block, he simply capitulates or appears to, and then when he gets what he wants, he feels no compunction to do what he capitulated to do. He simply pokes the person in the eye any way he can.
That is John McCain in a nutshell and he has shown himself to be that over and over. You think he’ll listen to his ‘base’, well I heartily disagree. John McCain listens to no one. He capitulates (I’ll build the #$% #(*^ Fence!) until he gets what he wants… his election to POTUS. Then he’ll poke you in the eye and get even. He has a history of that. I’m from Arizona, I’ve watched his style for years. He gets mad and then gets even.
You’ll notice when you respond to me, you find one thing that you presume makes me sound nutty and that’s all you respond to. You ignore the meat of the posts. It’s good to see you finally actually addressing some issues with Mike.
The other problem is this; the burden is not on me, it is on you. You’re the one who says he is trying to get people to ’see the light.’ From what I’ve seen here over the months, the resistance to McCain has only grown stronger, and partly because of people of your stripe and ilk who argue like Democrats.
And if you’re not defending the Constitution, you’re not defending the United States. John McCain is proving by the things he supports, that he does not support and sustain the Constitution of the United States. And you should be able to see that without people like Michelle having to point it out all the time. If Michelle or other people of that ilk, like myself, thought the Constitution and ergo the United States was a lost cause, she’d simply close her blog and go her way. So again, you’re arguing like a Dem.
And she is acting entirely honorably by not being a hypocrite in condemning the Ds for what Rs are equally guilty of. See, I trust her, because she hasn’t drunk the Kool-aid from either party. She is strongly defending the Constitution of the United States. If she is unfair at all, it is leaning toward defending McCain. Yes, that’s true. I’m sure like most of us she wishes she could hold him up as a great candidate. But his actions, past and present, prevent that. So she sticks to the truth.
And your final insult of ‘Obama Girl’ because I refuse to accept McCain simply proves Mike’s and my point that you fight like a Dem. Saying you’re a McCain guy from the git go shouldn’t have been interpreted as an insult unless John McCain is truly “a worthless piece of crap” to quote a certain person on this board who is also voting for McCain.
Clearly you’re fully boiled in the pot.
Also Bill, Mike has a completely detailed post above that I would find hard to add anything to.
The main difference between us is that I have taken the time to understand your POV and you make zero attempt to understand ours.
Michelle Malkin is a woman you’ve always respected right? Then maybe actually focus on what she keeps saying.
You can’t beat them, by joining them.
Amen Brothers. It’s payback time!
That McCain is a baby tosser. Sorry, your point is not true or grounded in reality. Indeed, it just works to help elect someone who actually voted for murder.
So Harry Reid isn’t a traitor? Barack Obamas plan to surrender in Iraq isn’t idiotic? Sorry, I refuse to call night day in order to not tell you what you do not want to hear.
He has on immigration, drilling, and supposedly his VP choice as well as other issues. Do you think Obama cares what you think?
He has a history of getting elected president and then poking people in the eye… It would be great if you could point out instances of this.
Look, I can only go by what the candidates have said that they are going to do because my crystal ball got broken and my mind telepathy has been on the fritz. The things that Bcarack Obama has promised to do will create a USA that is so far away from what conservatives supposedly would want that the BEST CASE scenario is that he is lying when he promises them. The things McCain proposes to do are a whole lot closer to an American vision and the difference between them and my ideals is something I am willing to get off my rear end for and demand. Where does that leave me if in the WORST CASE he is lying? The country will STILL not have slid as far as it would have with Obama and I will have fought the good fight for something I believe in, with honor and not just rolled over and taken it.
By the way, I will still be fighting if Obama gets elected because I believe in the USA and think that it is worth fighting for. It is just that I will be fighting 100% of his policies rather then 10% of McCains. That’s why I have to laugh when you tell me that you will be bailing me out down the road when as I see it you are just making the job of people who care about the USA 90% tougher.
I have responded line by line.
When you call a McCain supporter a “baby tosser” that is nutty, sorry, but that is just the case. It is the case especially because it is helping to elect someone who would, by his own words and deeds, allow live babies to die. You may be the most placid person on earth but your online persona has raised eyebrows.
Oh, I thought you were an American.
His poll numbers are creeping up. There may be a hardcore group of wackos who are willing to light their hair on fire because of a irrational feeling that can’t be broached with logic or reasoned commentary but their numbers are getting smaller as people realize that the choice has now boiled down to the 2 positions.
Again, that is annoying. I do not “argue like a democrat”. If I did you might be able to actually deal with my assertions rather then just complain about the fact that I am making them at all.
I am defending both. What are you defending?
How exactly? Be specific.
I don’t honestly think you can see beyond your emotions on the situation to the implications of what you are advocating. I am open to persuasion that I am wrong though. So: What is electing Obama going to do for defending the constitution?
Seeing what you want to see is a very liberal/relativistic phenomenon, so you are arguing like a liberal.
I do not think so. Fairly is what I expect. That hasn’t been the case.
That was called a “joke”. Not having a sense of humor is another mark of a leftist. (see, annoying, isn’t it?)
Classy…
Saying that you are an obama girl shouldn’t be an insult since that is the only other viable candidate running against the person you despise for reasons that, as I honestly see it, are not directly linked to reality.
…’k
Once again, you haven’t addressed my argument, only the way I have made it. I have gone through yours line by line and offered you the courtesy of taking what you have written seriously. You might try to do the same before you either solidify your opinions or call other people democrats for arguing to vote for a republican.
On August 22nd, 2008 at 12:39 pm, T-Bone said:
Get some!
This is just a quick note.
I can’t even take the time to spell check or do (almost) any formatting, sorry!
Command has dropped a mess in my lap. I will have to put this entire discussion, (and everything else,) on hold until Tuesday, 25Aug08, Afternoon, earliest.
That’s really a shame, because I think we could actually get somewhere here, (and besides, I’m enjoying the discussion).
Bill, Thank your for your kind words. I certainly agree that people do recover from comas, and the change in Dad’s, though not large in degree, shows that there is hope.
“Hitting the racks”? Are/were you a submariner? My “blood brother” was fast-attack & is in his last tour commanding a Boomer.
Congratulations! 61 yrs, myself.
you might like to try:http://www.ldsconservative.com
Just click on my moniker at the top of one of my comments, and it will whisk you there! (As I get used to blogs, I really come to love the technology involved!)
As for Dad’s status update, since it is almost done, I’ll ask my wife to finish and post it, so it (should) go up on time.
Last thing:
If this discussion rolls off, or MM closes it before we can finish, I’ll try to have someone save it off & post it on Dad’s blog.
I think this discussion could turn out to be really important. If we can iron out our differences, it could be useful as a template for further action as a unified conservative base. As I have maintained: I am not adverse to McCain, per se, I just see him as at his most truthful when he was trying to become a Liberal “D”. If we could find a way constrain him to act Constitutionally on the important things, his dalliances w/Liberalism wouldn’t concern me so much.
Well I’ve rush off, I’m due at a meeting at 1815h, and it is 1800h now.
Thank you all. See you in a few days!
Iron out differences? Did you see Grant’s latest response to me? I got through about three sections and didn’t bother with the rest. His first several responses proves he is grasping at straws to put words in my mouth, twist everything I said.
Keeps asking for specifics when specifics have been repeated ad nauseum. (McCain/Feingold, McCain/Kennedy, La Raza, La Raza, La Raza, Gang of 14, Cap & Trade, blah blah blah…) And the FACT that he threatened to switch parties TWICE.
I think the only reason he didn’t was he didn’t want to face off with Hillary in the Primaries. So he stayed an R thinking there would be less competition and they cut the backroom deal. The lefty SCOTUS he likes and Roberts was too conservative… yeah, he’ll appoint Constitutional SCOTUS…
Bill, I can’t believe you’ve been reading this blog all this time and can’t comprehend the issues with McCain.
Go for it Mike. You can do it!
martin.musculus(jr.) said:
No, surface fleet. My older brother was in the ‘80’s though. I was an airdale/systems engineer.
Best luck.
Joy, Here’s a heads up: When someone says that you are “Seeing what you want to see” and “Once again, you haven’t addressed my argument, only the way I have made it” it basically confirms what they were saying when you respond with:
On August 20th, 2008 at 11:00 am, ITookTheRedPill said:
Because his patriotism has, through twists and turns, been turned to the service of collectivism.
There is something more important than patriotism, and that is individual freedom.
McCain has, on occasion, put patriotism above that - not realizing that by doing so, he hurt the founding principles of the country he loves so much.
He knows it, is ashamed of it, and a Malkin interview would rub his nose in it.