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The Democrat Party platform’s hidden Soros Slush Fund

By Michelle Malkin  •  August 20, 2008 05:03 AM

My syndicated column today delves into the Democrat Party platform and exposes how untold amounts of taxpayer funding would be steered to militant, George Soros-backed left-wing groups. Welcome to Barack Obama’s “Social Investment Fund Network.”

Follow the money.

That goes for both presidential candidates who carry the Soros taint. Ugh.

***
The Democrat Party platform’s hidden Soros Slush Fund
by Michelle Malkin
Creators Syndicate
Copyright 2008

The Democrat Party platform is like a bag of pork rinds. You never know what high-fat liberal government morsel you’re gonna get.

Buried in the 94-page document is a noble-sounding proposal to create a “Social Investment Fund Network.” The program would provide federal money to “social entrepreneurs and leading nonprofit organizations [that] are assisting schools, lifting families out of poverty, filling health care gaps, and inspiring others to lead change in their own communities.” The Democrat Party promises to “support these results-oriented innovators” by creating an office to “coordinate government and nonprofit efforts” and then showering “a series of grants” on the chosen groups “to replicate these programs nationwide.”

In practice, this Barack Obama brainchild would serve as a permanent, taxpayer-backed pipeline to Democrat partisan outfits masquerading as public-interest do-gooders. This George Soros Slush Fund would be political payback in spades. Obama owes much of his Chicago political success to financial support from radical, left-wing billionaire and leading “social entrepreneur” Soros. In June 2004, Soros threw a big fund-raiser at his New York home for Obama’s Illinois Senate campaign. Soros and family personally chipped in $60,000. In April 2007, Obama was back in New York for a deep-pocketed Manhattan fund-raising soiree, with Soros lurking in his shadow (yes, that’s him behind Obama grasping onto the stairs).

No doubt with Soros’s approbation (if not advice from the hands-on “progressive” activist or his advisors), Obama fleshed out his Social Investment Fund Network plan last December. In concert with his mandatory volunteerism pitch and $6 billion anti-poverty plan, Obama called for the creation of a “Social Entrepreneurship Agency” to dispense the funds in unspecified amounts. The agency would be a government-supported nonprofit corporation “similar to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting,” which runs public television. (And we’ve all seen how fair and balanced that lib-dominated, Bill Moyers-boosting private-public enterprise turned out.)

Obama cites the Harlem Children’s Zone, which provides after-school activities and mentors to children in New York, as an example of a program that should be funded. (HCZ’s former senior leader, Shawn Dove, is now an official at Soros’s Open Society Institute.) The problem with such initiatives, as Mitchell Moss pointed out in the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal several years ago, is that these private-public partnerships formed under the guise of economic renewal often become nothing more than fronts that coordinate “an enormous safety net for social services.” Private donations give the illusion of self-help and philanthropic independence, but in reality, the “clients” are never weaned from the teat of the welfare state. They simply learn how to milk it more efficiently.

Even more troubling is how the Democrat Party/Obama plan would siphon away untold millions or billions of public tax dollars into the Soros empire without taxpayer recourse. Obama promises “accountability” measures to ensure the money is spent wisely. But who would assess effectiveness of the spending? Why, experts in the social entrepreneurship community, of course. Fox, meet henhouse.

Soros has donated some $5 billion of his fortune to left-wing non-profit groups through the Open Society Institute — which is committed to Soros’s militant ideology of toppling the “fascist” tyranny of the United States, which he says must undergo “de-Nazification” in favor of “justice.” The mob at Obama-endorsing MoveOn, purveyors of the “General Betray Us” smear against Commanding General, MNF-I, David Petraeus, is the most notorious Soros-backed political arm. But scores of other activist non-profits have received Soros funding under the guise of doing non-partisan “community” or “social justice” work — and it is exactly such leftist activist groups that would be first in line for the Democrat Party/Obama’s “social investment” seed money.

Point in case: ACORN. As I’ve reported before, Obama’s old friends at the Chicago-based non-profit now take in 40 percent of its revenues from American taxpayers. They have raked in tens of millions in federal anti-poverty grants while their operatives preside over massive voter fraud, corporate shakedowns, and mortgage scams across the country. Soros has donated at least $150,000 to the group, according to Investor’s Business Daily, and “heads a secretive rich-man’s club called ‘Democracy Alliance’ that has doled out $20 million to activist groups like ACORN.”

Once the spigot is turned on, there’s no turning back.

Where are fiscal conservatives on this far-Left boondoggle? Well, if you’re wondering why the McCain campaign doesn’t raise hell over this proposed left-wing non-profit/government pipeline, it’s because McCain himself is a Soros beneficiary. His “Reform Institute, ” a tax-exempt, supposedly independent 501(c)(3) group focused on campaign finance reform, was funded with Soros-funded Open Society Institute and Tides Foundation.

Birds of a Big Government feather flock together– and look out for each other. Watch your wallet.

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  3. Just Say No! to “George Soros for President” « I Took The Red Pill (and escaped the Matrix)
  4. The Democrat Party platform’s hidden Soros Slush Fund « Thoughts Of A Conservative Christian
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  16. Michelle Malkin » ACORN Watch, Pt II: Obama hid $800,000 payment to ACORN through “Citizen Services, Inc.”
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Comments

Comment pages: « 1 [2]

  1. #101
    On August 20th, 2008 at 1:37 pm, sonofdy said:

    joy, besides what Obama told you to think, what makes mccain so unacceptable?

  2. #102
    On August 20th, 2008 at 1:43 pm, martin.musculus(jr.) said:

    Hi atheling, want to answer Dad’s question yet?

    You can use google to find it, or if you job at McCain inc., won’t give you access to google, I can retype it from his journal.

    See, “My Friends”, here is someone who daren’t answer a simple question.

    All she has are worn personal attacks. How sad.

    Hey sweety, who’s foaming at every poster who even mildly questions your True Love & employer?

    Who hates so much she berates her hostess?

    Hummmm?

  3. #103
    On August 20th, 2008 at 1:44 pm, Dan Lee said:

    McCain + REAL Conservative VP pick = Real Chance to win in Nov.

    McCain + fellow Rhino Republican or Democrat VP = 4 years of Obama

    It’s really simple math..

  4. #104
    On August 20th, 2008 at 1:47 pm, allrsn said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 8:34 am, guitarplayer said:
    You are so right about the welfare teat. Once there, they never get weaned off and it makes you wonder why the Lib Dems cannot see this is sucking the country dry.
    Programs like this are what create a permanent voting bloc for them. That helps them keep their power and that’s all they care about.

    Your both wrong.

    Soros is not running for anything, he only funds certain politicians for other personal reasons.

    Question? What does Soros expect to gain from his multi billion dollar investment??

  5. #105
    On August 20th, 2008 at 1:50 pm, T-Bone said:

    I ponder often why anyone would like to move closer and closer to Socialism/Communism. I see it as very evil. What do you mean, the press is censored so I can’t hear all the truth, only what the Government wants me to hear. That to me is just inherently wrong.

    Half of this country right now is willing to vote to go that route. Half!
    Why is that? Why do they do it? What do they know that I don’t or why can’t they see the danger?

    I think many Democrats truly believe in helping others who are less fortunate than themselves. They believe that we should protect the environment completely, they want to make sure everyone has healthcare, education, jobs, housing, and a higher standard of living. They feel sorry for the homeless guy begging for money at the offramp or the poverty stricken foreigner crossing our borders that just wants to have a better life for their family. They want love for all peoples, of all colors and religions, and backgrounds. They consider these ideals to be what they aspire to and think others should also have this philosophy of helping others and protecting what God has given us.

    Their biggest mistake, however, is that they think the Democratic Party is the only party who wants this. I see it nightly on the liberal news. Republicans won’t give health care to babies. Republicans pursue policy to destroy the environment. Republicans leave minorities to die in New Orleans, etc. Republicans want to take over all other countries by waging overt and covert war.

    The funny thing is, Republicans want to help others who are less fortunate than themselves. They believe that we should protect the environment. They want everyone to have healthcare, education, jobs, housing, and a higher standard of living. They also feel sorry for the homeless guy begging for money at the offramp or the poverty stricken foreigner crossing our borders that just wants to have a better life for their family. They want love for all peoples, of all colors and religions, and backgrounds. They just don’t believe Government can or should be doing it. Isn’t that the real debate?

    If Socialism/Communism was the answer, why have no countries been able to achieve the Utopian dream of no unemployment, no pollution, no violence, high standard of living for everyone, etc?

    The USSR tried to fool people into believing they did it. They worked hard at that, cutting off access to the rest of the world, mass extermination and mistreatment of dissenters,etc. In the end, it was proven to be false.

    In summary, I think most people want the same thing. A good life for all. I just don’t think the perfection will ever be there. There will always be people that have problems through their lives. Thats life.

    Its the method for improving lives that is debated. Both sides have ideas to improve lives and both sides think their way is superior to the other. The debate has just sunk so low with false accusations perpetuated by the MSM that it is disgusting.

    When we can have an honest discussion about how to achieve the same goals, we can make better progress. Right now, it is all about lies and deception and demonizing, and trickery.

    Faith based initiatives, social investment, welfare, entitlements? Which work, which don’t, why do they or don’t they? What are the core concepts that get us there? Government vs Individuals? What are best practices? If welfare leads to dependency, what else do we do? How will we ever have a civil discussion? Look at this blog where even “conservatives” can’t agree and liberals swoop in with ridiculous moral equivalents, and petty, childish accusations. Is it more about “power” than doing good for the world?

    Excuse my ranting but sometimes what I read here really gets my hackles up. Thank God I am not reading the Daily Kos BS blog. I just couldn’t take it. Its like watching NBC or listening to NPR.

  6. #106
    On August 20th, 2008 at 1:58 pm, allrsn said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 1:50 pm, T-Bone said

    Watch what they do, not listen to what they say they do.

  7. #107
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:01 pm, martin.musculus(jr.) said:

    allsrn:
    I partially disagree.

    While your point about Soros is accurate, the Welfare State does create a perm. constituency who have no choice but to vote the way they’re stampeded by threats to their livelyhood, the govmnt stiped.

    As for the first part, how do you see Soros-control&mentoring functionally different from Soros supported w/IOUs?

    I’ve wondered, many times, if it isn’t a distinction w/o a difference.

  8. #108
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:05 pm, martin.musculus(jr.) said:

    #105
    T-bone:

    Well said! Well said! Well said!
    *** end of three cheers ***

  9. #109
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:15 pm, Joy said:

    sonofdy - That’s the McCainiacs answer to everything isn’t it? You Republicans (not conservatives) have degenerated into everything you have always accused the Dems of being.

    I’m sorry for you that you can’t conceive of people who not only have conservative priciples and beliefs, but they are willing to stand up for them.

    The Dems slid into Marxism because they always vote for the D regardless. Don’t worry, you Rs will get there too, because you’ll obviously always vote the R regardless.

    You’re the frog, and the pot is up to boil and you’re in it. Why get so angry at those who have chosen to jump out of the boiling pot?

  10. #110
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:17 pm, Joy said:

    allsrn - Power.

  11. #111
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:17 pm, atheling said:

    Joy,

    How about answering sonofdy’s question instead of ranting?

  12. #112
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:22 pm, allrsn said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:01 pm, martin.musculus(jr.) said:

    Yes, as they slowly build their single party two class system. You are talking tactical I am talking strategic.

  13. #113
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:23 pm, martin.musculus(jr.) said:

    Wow!

    Lazy voter who don’t want to do their own research…

    Like MM, who you are constantly finding fault with!

    You, who claim moral superiority on research, but can’t provide a link to any supporting documentation!

    You seriously have so little respect for the average Joe’s ablity to think. How can you think yourselves so above everyone else as to try to put that over?

    Ah, so you’re the people who claim TrueBlood and others are RINO?

    I’m not an R, sweety. I’m a Constitutionalist. I vote to uphold that sacred document — as I have sworn an oath to do.

    But, lets let others decide, not by our protestations, but by our actions.

    Who’s attacking everyone who disagrees w/them, acting snotty at new blog commentors?

    Who bad-mouths the hostess, who lets us for free post whatever comes to mind?

    If you don’t like a piece she’s posted, don’t read it! Why the need to control what MM writes or others read? Are you such a busy-body? We just can’t be trusted with the freedom of our own opinion, you wish to tell us what to think.

    If not, why browbeat people? Your morality is obviously superiour to Franklin’s, Jefferson’s, Adam’s, Madison’s, nd the rest! They wanted Freedom of Political Speech, you want it too, as long as we don’t point out problems with your chosen candidate! I guess even YOU know what a dog he is, just like OB’s people, afterall, you’re using their playbook.

  14. #114
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:30 pm, Joy said:

    atheling - His question has been answered a thousand times all over this blog. Therefore I know he’s not asking a serious question. I’ll answer, he’ll ignore the answer as usual and go on with his ad hominem attacks, as will you. You all don’t listen to the answers, why should I waste my time typing and retyping?

    Go back through the threads. The answers are right in front of you. This blog is full of the answers in Michelle’s posts. The news is full of the snswers… but most importantly, McCain himself has answered that question.

    I have a question for you. Can you summarize why conservatives like me are against McCain? Without calling us names? Can you actually repeat back what we’ve been saying for MONTHS?

    See, I can summarize what you are saying… literally… “He’s not as bad as Obama.”

    Now, you give it a try. And I mean a serious one. Because those who think like me have offered many many many reasons not to vote for McCain.

  15. #115
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:32 pm, martin.musculus(jr.) said:

    #111
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:17 pm, atheling said:
    Joy,
    How about answering sonofdy’s question instead of ranting?

    Why are you, atheling, asking?

    The over the months in the archive, 15 others times she took to carefully explain it you didn’t address a word she said, just sniffed at how a factual response was beneath Your Magesty!

  16. #116
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:34 pm, martin.musculus(jr.) said:

    Joy:

    Excellent! Excellent! Excellent!
    *** end of three cheers ***

  17. #117
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:40 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 1:50 pm, T-Bone said:

    T-Bone, I give you a long, standing ovation for that most excellent comment. Bravo!

    You are so right. The liberal media paints the Republicans as evil and uncaring, when it people like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton who favor evil in the form of partial-birth abortion. As we know, Barack even supports infanticide.

    Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
    Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
    Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

    Isaiah 5:20

  18. #118
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:47 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 1:50 pm, T-Bone said:
    I ponder often why anyone would like to move closer and closer to Socialism/Communism.

    Capitalism >> Communism

    I’ve written quite a few posts on this topic.

  19. #119
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:50 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    During my first press conference as president, in answer to a direct question, I pointed out that, as good Marxist-Leninists, the Soviet leaders have openly and publicly declared that the only morality they recognize is that which will further their cause, which is world revolution. I think I should point out I was only quoting Lenin, their guiding spirit, who said in 1920 that they repudiate all morality that proceeds from supernatural ideas — that’s their name for religion — or ideas that are outside class conceptions. Morality is entirely subordinate to the interests of class war. And everything is moral that is necessary for the annihilation of the old, exploiting social order and for uniting the proletariat.

    Well, I think the refusal of many influential people to accept this elementary fact of Soviet doctrine illustrates a historical reluctance to see totalitarian powers for what they are. We saw this phenomenon in the 1930s. We see it too often today.

    This doesn’t mean we should isolate ourselves and refuse to seek an understanding with them. I intend to do everything I can to persuade them of our peaceful intent, to remind them that it was the West that refused to use its nuclear monopoly in the forties and fifties for territorial gain and which now proposes 50 percent cut in strategic ballistic missiles and the elimination of an entire class of land-based, intermediate-range nuclear missiles.

    At the same time, however, they must be made to understand we will never compromise our principles and standards. We will never give away our freedom. We will never abandon our belief in God. And we will never stop searching for a genuine peace.

    President Ronald Reagan
    March 8, 1983

  20. #120
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:57 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 1:08 pm,ITookTheRedPill said:

    I think the Ron Paul supporters are going to find a way to prevent the “automatic” nomination of McCain, resulting in a brokered convention, from which we will nominate a real Reagan Republican.

    On August 20th, 2008 at 1:25 pm, atheling said:

    And if they don’t?

    Hebrews 11:1

  21. #121
    On August 20th, 2008 at 3:00 pm, atheling said:

    Well, I have faith in Jesus, but not in people, particularly when it comes to politics.

  22. #122
    On August 20th, 2008 at 3:08 pm, martin.musculus(jr.) said:

    #112
    On August 20th, 2008 at 2:22 pm, allrsn said:

    Yes, as they slowly build their single party two class system. You are talking tactical I am talking strategic.

    Ok, I see why you might say that.

    I’ve spent 41 yrs watching our culture and civilization slide Left, with an almost pause during Reagan.

    During that time, spent thinking, teaching, and working for Constitutionality in our society, I’ve come to the conclusion that both tactical and strategic action are need.

    Tactical action is LOTE. Atleast that’s the argument many here give. I used to agree w/that idea, but no longer.

    I’ve seen the outcome of LOTE voting. Because I’m older than 30 and a lover of history, I see where LOTE will finish.

    Too many people here pushing LOTE are practicing wish-fulfillment. In some magical fashion expecting the least from a group will not result in people living down to it — as it has in the schools, the gettos, the teens.

    No! Through the action of some unknown agent the RNC will suddenly say: Let’s be Conservative & Constitutional today!

    That’s why they attack Joy and others who ask questions. They scream “Obama Lover! Obama’s gonna kill us all!” and drawing sabre blindly charge.

    You can tell these people from the sane but passonate McCain supporters by one of their behaviours: if McCain loses, it won’t be HIS fault, its YOURS!

    I have no problem with passionate McCain people. My CO & I have long discussions, and he’s one. We both enjoy our talks. I poke fun at the others, because I hope it will break their fey mood.

    I think that’s the core of it. They’re fey, in the classic sense. Having no historical perspective, they’re afraid they’re going to die, (in the political sense). It has robbed them of the ability to do anything but act rude, senseless and classless — just like the flowerchildren from my younger days.

    Well, I’ve gotten far-afield. What I *was* going to say will have to wait until after my meetings.

  23. #123
    On August 20th, 2008 at 3:15 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    None of us is perfect. There’s only been one man who was, and as you know they crucified Him.

    Any and every man has imperfections. Politicians, as a whole, seem to have more of them than others ;-)

    But I have faith that the next President of the United States will be a real Christian.

    Every candidate wants the votes of America’s largest voting block (Values Voters). Most candidates this year profess to be a Christian. If they confess “I am a Christian” but can’t confess “Jesus is Lord”, then they are a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Confessing “Jesus is Lord” is a requirement of being a true Christian. If you don’t confess Him before men, you are denying Him before men, and that means you aren’t saved and aren’ a true Christian.

    Jesus is Lord!

  24. #124
    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:06 pm, seekeronos said:

    Well, if you’re wondering why the McCain campaign doesn’t raise hell over this proposed left-wing non-profit/government pipeline, it’s because McCain himself is a Soros beneficiary. His “Reform Institute, ” a tax-exempt, supposedly independent 501(c)(3) group focused on campaign finance reform, was funded with Soros-funded Open Society Institute and Tides Foundation.

    Precisely why this nation needs a conservative, constitutionalist who isn’t owned by the New World Order Big Money like McCain and Obama are…

    America needs Dr. Chuck Baldwin, and we are to blinded by the MSM’s glitter-filled worship of the two-party tyranny’s menace to vote for the one man who would put the oligarchists out of DC on a rail.

    http://www.baldwin08.com

  25. #125
    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:14 pm, Bill Grant said:

    “Through the action of some unknown agent the RNC will suddenly say: Let’s be Conservative & Constitutional today!”

    So rewarding the democrats, who are promising to socialize entire industries, promising to lose us the war on islamist terrorism, promising to set up a nanny state with entitlement programs that you will have to pry away from peoples cold dead fingers, promising to push our national debt over our GDP which will effectively render our dollar worthless, promising to keep us hooked on foreign oil, promising to keep abortion legal and even expand them, promising to gut the military, promising to get more and more people hooked on big government which will accelerate this “slide” you speak of… That will somehow get the USA back to this mythical conservative utopia that you speak of.

    “That’s why they attack Joy and others who ask questions. ”

    “Attack”. It is amazing to me how some so called conservatives can be so sensitive. The idea that McCain is for “killing babies” is a lie. He is pro life and has a record to back it up. It is that idea that is attacked, especially because it effectively endorses someone who is proven to be on the side of, quite literally baby killing. So is anything other then calling a stupid idea “smart” an attack? Or is the standard just disagreeing with ideas that you agree with.

    “They’re fey, in the classic sense. Having no historical perspective, they’re afraid they’re going to die, (in the political sense)”

    At the core of it in my case is the recognition that an Obama presidency will fundamentally alter this country in ways that will prove to be irreversible. At the core of it is a realization that you do not gain influence by throwing elections. At the core of it is a line of dedication to the USA since 1688 and the Constitution since 1787 that I will not break faith with. At the core of it is an old promise to defend this country from all enemies and MY promises don’t end.

    “It has robbed them of the ability to do anything but act rude, senseless and classless — just like the flowerchildren from my younger days.”

    Remember that the next time you go on about urinating in plants, screwing up someone else’s name or taking up half the forum with your double spaced “look at me” diatribes Mr.flowerchild. You are in no position to be lecturing about manners.

  26. #126
    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:18 pm, billcollier said:

    g0nna be Cantor, he is practicing his speech :)

  27. #127
    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:20 pm, billcollier said:

    this is subterfuge from within, people inside trying to get their man in, which means a disunited campaign

  28. #128
    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:28 pm, Joy said:

    Bill Grant - The reason I usually just skip over your posts is that you seem to completely ignore any faults McCain has. You are totally blind. You can’t even imagine why anyone would actually scrutinize him.

    And you are wrong. He has floated the idea of selecting a Dem or Pro-Abortion candidate and if you don’t know that, then your are willfully ignorant.

    And I think even you recognize, although you refuse to admit it, that if he is willing to do that, he is not as pro-life as he claims.

    And Martin’s description of you and others urinating in our lovely hostesses plants is extremely fitting.

    franksalterego has gone so far as to compare MM with terrorists for questioning McCain’s dangerous laisons and policies.

  29. #129
    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:32 pm, seekeronos said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:14 pm, jsmiddleton @ #65 said:

    “— Just look at this article by Michele Malkin as an example. She’s painting McCain as IF essentially he is no different than Obama!?

    And she’s one of us? You know what they say about with friends like that who needs enemies? One has to wonder. —”

    But MM is actually 100% correct: there truly is scant difference between the two scions of our mnay-times over corrupted two-party system of tyranny.

    The “Maverick” is beholden to his controllers at the CFR and corporate interests; Obama is beholden to socialist money; both are beholden to George Soros.

    If anyone is smiling at this election - which is like trying to pick up the clean side of a pile of dog droppings - it will be ol’ George Soros.

  30. #130
    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:50 pm, Doo2 said:

    Does it tell anybody else anything that McCain had to send out “push back” people to conservative sites just like team Oabam did?

  31. #131
    On August 20th, 2008 at 5:07 pm, atheling said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:28 pm, Joy said:

    Bill Grant - The reason I usually just skip over your posts is that you I seem to completely ignore any faults assets McCain has. You are I am totally blind with hatred. YouI can’t even imagine why anyone would actually scrutinize him believe anything I say because I am a ranting nutjob who most sane people ignore.

  32. #132
    On August 20th, 2008 at 5:12 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    You know what would be poetic justice?

    If Soros was found guilty of, and jailed for, violating some part of McCain-Feingold!

  33. #133
    On August 20th, 2008 at 5:18 pm, Bill Grant said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:28 pm, Joy said:

    “The reason I usually just skip over your posts is that you seem to completely ignore any faults McCain has.”

    Not at all. I am just balancing them out with his attributes and measuring them by his opponent. Additionally, since the guy can’t get a break here you are assigning “faults” that are not fair or even based in any kind of objective reality. “Tossing babies under the bus” is not a campaign platform that McCain is running on. It is not fair or cute to say that. Indeed, it is a toxic lie.

    ”And you are wrong.””

    Firstly, he is pro life. Secondly, his opponent has voted against aiding live babies that have survived an abortion. (Really, what more do you need to know?) Thirdly if he were nominate someone from a state that he needs to win who is against your views would that mean that you effectively endorse Obama?

    “And I think even you recognize, although you refuse to admit it, that if he is willing to do that, he is not as pro-life as he claims.”

    I wouldn’t care if he did to be absolutely clear. The VP has no say in policy making. Additionally, congress writes the laws. McCains effect on Abortion will be to nominate a judge who will vow to enforce the constitution, not interpret it.

    Your choice is someone who vows to appoint judges who know Roe v Wade is bad law or someone who voted for partial birth abortion and for allowing abortion survivors to be tossed in the trash.

    “you and others urinating in our lovely hostesses plants is extremely fitting.”

    Yet hysterics and rants about McCain tossing babies under moving vehicles and Onesies are just dandy.
    I think our hostess has made the cynical calculation that McCain hit-pieces get more traffic to this blog, therefore you are going to get every scrap of speculation, rumor or innuendo about a good man who is the last line of defense against a Democratic controlled Legislative branch, Executive branch and supreme court. That would be an unmitigated disaster for the country. Compounded by the fact that it was partially brought about by people who were willing to let it happen because they were duped in to thinking they were helping to somehow advance conservative principles. In other words, you are going to end up getting the exact opposite of what you supposedly want by following the course of action that you rant against others for not following.

  34. #134
    On August 20th, 2008 at 5:21 pm, Bill Grant said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:50 pm, Doo2 said:

    Does it tell anybody else anything that McCain had to send out “push back” people to conservative sites just like team Oabam did?

    Any evidence of that? There was a link on Littlegreenfootballs a while back about the democratic underground infiltrating “conservative” blogs to post talking points smiler to the ones you see here constantly. You know… To keep the bitter gun clingers at home on election day…

  35. #135
    On August 20th, 2008 at 5:23 pm, Ordinary Coloradan said:

    Use Fred Thompson’s solution:

    No limits, anyone can give any amount they want to anyone they want.

    But it must be reported within 24 hours, and all giving is a matter of open public record. This includes the personal source of the money, like funders of the 527s.

    Complete transparency. If our politicians are being bought (and they are), we should at least know by whom and for how much.

    That would expose all the tendrils of Soros and his minions.

  36. #136
    On August 20th, 2008 at 5:26 pm, tbear44 said:

    #79On August 20th, 2008 at 12:49 pm, DBNinKY said:

    How true, that says it all.

  37. #137
    On August 20th, 2008 at 5:50 pm, tiredofit08 said:

    that picture is just plain scary…like the obamination is the messiah…NOT…without a teleprompter he can’t string a sentence or thought together….he wins we are screwed…

  38. #138
    On August 20th, 2008 at 6:26 pm, Joy said:

    athling - I see the ad hominem… still hear loud crickets chirping to my question. :lol: I’m not at all surprised.

    For people who claim to be for McCain, you all are certainly doing a lot of damage to him. Congrats! Keep up the good work!

  39. #139
    On August 20th, 2008 at 6:46 pm, atheling said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 6:26 pm, Joy said:

    athling - I see the ad hominem…

    Pot. Kettle. Black.

    You really need to go take your meds.

  40. #140
    On August 20th, 2008 at 7:00 pm, MacEamonn said:

    PASLMS….2008-2012

    Obama Is My Shepherd, I Shall Not Want.
    He Leadeth Me Beside Still Factories,
    He Restoreth My Faith In The Republican Party,
    He Guideth Me In The Paths Of Unemployment.
    Yea, Though I Walk Through The Valley Of The Bread Line, I Shall Not Go
    Hungry.

    Obama Has Anointed My Income With Taxes,
    My Expenses Runneth Over My Income,
    Surely, Poverty And Hard Living Will Follow Me All The Days Of My Life.
    The Democrats And I Will Live Forever In a Rented Room.

    But I Am Glad I Am an American,
    I Am Glad That I Am Free.
    But I Wish I Was A Dog
    And Obama A Tree.

  41. #141
    On August 20th, 2008 at 7:07 pm, T-Bone said:

    My number 1 issue is the War. I care about other issues like taxes and immigration & abortion but I think that sending men & women in harms way and killing untold numbers of the enemy and innocent civilians (some are not so innocent) that get caught up in the crossfire is unacceptable to me. Why are we fighting a war half a$$?

    If you make the decision as a country to go to war,(and we DID because we elected President Bush and we allow our elected leaders to make those kind of decisions), we should do so with all our heart & soul, not half of it. More people die everyday because of our hesitation and second guessing of our motives. This only helps the enemy and it is disgusting (yes , traitorous), to undermine our effort like the Democratic Party leadership and their followers have. I believe they are also doing it for political gain and that disgusts me even more.

    My issue dictates that John McCain is my man. I think he is the only one of the 2 possible candidates who will fight this war fully, including fighting those at home who can’t pick the US over Terrorism but who pick the Democrat party over the US, IMO.

    He is not who I wanted. I don’t like his Global Warming Hysteria, his stance on immigration etc. However, on every issue, when I do a SWOT analysis, McCain is the winner over Obama. Every issue! And on most issues, it’s not even close.

    This whole, “I am not going to vote for him to send him a message”, “to let the US disintegrate so I can prove I was right”, “to show the world how liberalism will destroy the US”, etc, I just can’t grasp. It is illogical to me.

    I can understand the “I vote for who I want”, “Its my vote”, “I like so & so even though they can’t win”, “You can’t blame me” arguments. People in this country are allowed to vote or not vote as they wish. I can wish they wouldn’t wouldn’t cut their nose off to spite their face but hey, it’s a free country.

    My issue leaves me little choice but I get the best I can get. I do not toe the Party line of either party. There are many reasons I would like to have people help me with my issue and get McCain elected and I truly wish for that not because I like McCain that much but because my choices are limited and McCain is my better choice of the TWO candidates.

    When you throw the George Soros connection into the mix, Whoa nellie! This guy uses money to influence politics in the entire world, pure & simple. That scares me. I do not trust his motive & intent. McCain looks like a sweet rose next to that poison ivy and his tumbleweed surrogates.

  42. #142
    On August 20th, 2008 at 7:16 pm, Joy said:

    atheling - I see on another thread you attempt to convince people of the love of God the same way you try to convince people to vote for your candidate.

    I’d add the lol, but it really isn’t funny, it’s just sad.

    What is funny is the lengths you’re willing to go to to avoid answering my question.

  43. #143
    On August 20th, 2008 at 7:26 pm, Joy said:

    T-Bone - I can respect your position. And you’ve got to do what your conscience tells you. But the final analysis for me is that voting the LOTE is still voting for evil.

    I’m not withholding my vote to ‘teach’ anyone a lesson. I must withhold my vote because of my conscience. Can you really not understand that?

  44. #144
    On August 20th, 2008 at 7:34 pm, atheling said:

    Joy:

    You’re not worth the effort. Like I said, you need meds, not debate. Re-read your comments. If they are not an example of “unhinged”, nothing is.

    Good luck.

  45. #145
    On August 20th, 2008 at 7:45 pm, T-Bone said:

    Joy,

    I understand totally. To each his own. I just feel so strongly about my own position that I wish I could sway you in order to further my cause.

    If abortion were my main issue for example and neither candidate convinced me they would further my main issue, then I could not vote for either and I would feel good about that decision.

    The end game of that of course is that I vote in secret (I think), and no one need ever know what I really did.

    BTW, McCain was forced on me because he was already chosen before CA even voted!

    I would add that the other choices were not all that hot either but everyone except Ron Paul had my back on the war.

    I see the back & forth on who should vote for who etc. Decisions based on conscience etc are valid to me. It is logical. To “send a message”, not so much.
    In the end, I can’t get too worked up one way or the other. I only have 1 vote (and my neighbor or spouse or friend will probably cancel that out very quickly). I don’t contribute much money or time either. I do try to keep myself informed so I am not a complete stupido. (excuse my Spanglish). Thats all I can do.

  46. #146
    On August 20th, 2008 at 7:46 pm, Joy said:

    atheling - :lol:

    If I’m not worth the effort, why do you keep posting to me?

    I take it you’re not going to answer the question. You could have just said as much instead of using avoidence tactics 101.

  47. #147
    On August 20th, 2008 at 7:50 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 7:45 pm, T-Bone said:

    BTW, McCain was forced on me because he was already chosen before CA even voted!

    McCain and RNC Blitzkrieg

    Follow that up with

    A Choice Not an Echo: The inside story of how American Presidents are chosen

  48. #148
    On August 20th, 2008 at 8:15 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:
  49. #149
    On August 20th, 2008 at 8:29 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    I am ashamed to admit that I wasn’t paying attention when the Values Voters Debate was held.

    It is worth noting, however, that the four men who chose not to attend are the same four men who ensured that John McCain is now our “presumptive nominee”.

    Thompson was McCain’s stalking horse in SC (to ensure that McCain, not Huckabee, won SC).

    Giuliani was McCain’s stalking horse in FL (to ensure that McCain, not Romney, won FL).

    Romney broke his February 5th promise to fight “all the way to the convention”. Why? Because McCain offerred Romney the VP slot on February 6th in return for Romney quitting the race and working to make Huckabee quit.

    Give me a better explanation for why Romney broke his promise less than 48 hours after he made it, and quit saying the equivalent of “if we all don’t quit and coronate John McCain right now, then we are aiding a surrender to terrorism”.

    Seriously, tell me why Romney quit. And then explain why he “released” his delegates to McCain a week later.

    I am not a Romney fan, but both Romney fans and I wanted Romney to keep going! McCain was running out of public money, and as Michelle noted, McCain was dangerously close to being hoisted by his own petard.

    Picture a race where Romney kept going, McCain ran out of money, and no candidate reached 1191 pledged delegates. We’d be going into our convention not knowing for sure who our nominee will be…

    …just like the Democrats.

  50. #150
    On August 20th, 2008 at 8:32 pm, T-Bone said:

    Hopefully, we won’t take the Poison Pill. That only works for those Evil Corporations that provide most of us a living.

  51. #151
    On August 20th, 2008 at 8:38 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    But MM is actually 100% correct: there truly is scant difference between the two scion…

    Great illustration of my point/criticism. McCain is clearly not the conservatives conservative. So that means he and Obama are the same? Hardly.

  52. #152
    On August 20th, 2008 at 8:48 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    I’m not withholding my vote to ‘teach’ anyone a lesson. I must withhold my vote because of my conscience. Can you really not understand that?

    How is it an exercise of conscience to force the rest of us to pay higher taxes, have more invasive government and move toward more and more socialism because McCain isn’t conservative enough for you? Forcing me to pay more taxes is hardly an act the is commendable as an act of conscience on your part.

    Potentially putting a man in office and a hole administration who is 100% pro-choice and supports abortion because you don’t think McCain is good enough for you is hardly a commendable act of conscience.

    There are huge, significant and important differences between John McCain and Obama. Not participating in the vote to do everything we can to keep Obama out of office is hardly defined by “an act of conscience”.

  53. #153
    On August 20th, 2008 at 9:09 pm, T-Bone said:

    Your conscience will be clear, then your wallet, then your home furnishings, and of course your womb will always be available for clearance.

    Clear as a bell to me.

  54. #154
    On August 20th, 2008 at 9:29 pm, Joy said:

    The Rs are the new Ds… Clear as a bell to me.

    Most of the Ds don’t comprehend b. Hussein is a Marxist anymore than you comprehend McCain is a Socialist. And you’ll continue to not comprehend even when your guy is a Marxist too.

    Keep on swimming, you’ll be completely boiled soon. And those of us taking a real stand will continue to do so and probably end up saving your hides when the time comes. And then you’ll be glad some of us did jump out of the pot.

  55. #155
    On August 20th, 2008 at 10:40 pm, Bill Grant said:

    “And those of us taking a real stand will continue to do so and probably end up saving your hides when the time comes. “

    What color is the sky in your little world?

  56. #156
    On August 21st, 2008 at 12:11 am, Joy said:

    Right now it’s dark and raining. Hopefully tomorrow will be sunny. :o]

  57. #157
    On August 21st, 2008 at 12:30 am, purplepeep said:

    The Hillary HoldOut site “No Quarter USA” has more fun stuff on Obama and ACORN -

    Money Laundering Scandal? (UPDATED)

  58. #158
    On August 21st, 2008 at 12:32 am, purplepeep said:

    Joy said:
    The Rs are the new Ds… Clear as a bell to me.

    And that’s a sad commentary on the state of the “R”, Joy.

  59. #159
    On August 21st, 2008 at 1:07 am, vickisoup said:

    McCain loves HRC so much, that I think he and she are working together to get her the Dem nomination at the DNC. Something is up. Something is definitely up. :shock:

  60. #160
    On August 21st, 2008 at 1:31 am, purplepeep said:

    vickisoup said:
    McCain loves HRC so much, that I think he and she are working together to get her the Dem nomination at the DNC. Something is up. Something is definitely up.

    I dunno about the Hillary-McJohn love thing, Vicki, but seeing Chicago ‘68 being replayed next week would make for some good popcorn-munching time!

  61. #161
    On August 21st, 2008 at 6:29 am, ITookTheRedPill said:

    The Russians have a long history of infiltrating our government.

    Exhibit A:

    Drawing on primary sources—including never-before-published government records and FBI files, as well as recent research gleaned from Soviet archives and intercepted transmissions between Moscow spymasters and their agents in the United States—Evans presents irrefutable evidence of a relentless Communist drive to penetrate our government, influence its policies, and steal its secrets. Most shocking of all, he shows that U.S. officials supposedly guarding against this danger not only let it happen but actively covered up the penetration. All of this was precisely as Joe McCarthy contended.

    Exhibit B:

    This breach happened during the Clinton administration and was finally but to an end at the beginning of the Bush administration.

    The ChiComs, eager and willing to do “whatever it takes” (including cheat) to win, are also in on this spying game.

    We can’t ignore the Russian and Chinese influence in this election.

    In my opinion, it appears that the Russians are supporting Barack Hussein Obama II (a.k.a Barry Soetoro). Note Russia’s participation as an observer of the “57 state” Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC).

    The flag of the OIC (shown above) has an overall green background (symbolic of Islam). In the center, there is an upward-facing red crescent enveloped in a white disc. On the disc the words “Allahu Akbar” are written in modern Arabic calligraphy.

    Remember when Obama told women of the press not to wear green?

    In my opinion, it appears that the Chinese Communists (ChiComs) are supporting Hillary Rodham Clinton. Think Norman Hsu.

    Now, what does it say to you when John McCain takes money from George Soros (who is also heavily involved in the Obama campaign)?

    What does it say to you when John McCain is so “cozy” with Hillary Clinton?

    In my opinion, it says that the communists are hedging their bets, so that no matter what happens in November, they win.

    We cannot overlook the fact that McCain was a POW under Communist control for many years.

    We must take an honest look at John McCain’s record and ask how different that record is from the Communist agenda for America.

    Amnesty for 20 million “Proletariat”?
    Check.

    AGW taxes?
    Check.

    Attacks on the “Ultra-Right“?
    Check.

    John McCain is not our nominee yet. We won’t have a nominee until our convention. If John McCain doesn’t have the courage to do a 1-on-1 interview with Michelle Malkin, giving “Straight Talk” answers to tough questions, then the connections to George Soros and other Socialists/Communists goes uncontested and I believe he is not worthy of the Republican nomination. We have one shot to get this right.

    I don’t want a “choice” (”echo”, really) of the lesser of two Communists.

  62. #162
    On August 21st, 2008 at 7:39 am, Outlander said:

    Here’s my question. How much of Obama’s $300-odd million in campaign contributions have come from Soros-backed groups? Obviously, the contributions under $200 will never be reported, so we’re never going to know how many of those contributions are legitimate. But apparently over half of his contributions were over the $200 reporting threshold. That’s what I think we really need to investigate.

    Any Democratic presidential candidate would try to throw money to leftist activist groups like Moveon and ACORN. That’s not at all surprising. And shame on McAmnesty for taking their money, too!

  63. #163
    On August 21st, 2008 at 8:33 am, Dimsdale said:

    I think we are missing the big picture: all these fat, newly funded “charities” will provide nice fat money calves for the reemergence of AIR AMERICA!!

    Of course, in addition to outright stealing from the charities in question, “President” Obama would make it a publicly funded enterprise, NPR/PBS-like, to try (once again) to overcome extremely popular talk radio.

    The new Democrat mantra: if the people like it, tax it (or legislate it out of existence, a la the “Fairness” Doctrine), and if they don’t like it, subsidize it!

    Can you say BBC?

  64. #164
    On August 21st, 2008 at 9:01 am, ITookTheRedPill said:

    When I’m logged in, my comment at 6:29 am this morning shows up as comment #161 and Outlander’s comment at 7:39 am is #162.

    When I’m not logged in, my comment does not appear and Outlander’s comment at 7:39 am is #161.

    Why is that?

    Is my comment awaiting moderation?

  65. #165
    On August 21st, 2008 at 10:14 am, Silkyinfamous said:

    So McCain and Obama are both using funds and influence put in place by Soros. I haven’t heard the term “Puppet Master”, but wouldn’t that apply based on your article?

  66. #166
    On August 21st, 2008 at 10:14 am, martin.musculus(jr.) said:

    On August 20th, 2008 at 4:14 pm, Bill Grant said:
    So rewarding the democrats, who are promising to socialize entire industries,

    Why you’ve seen the light! You realize that the McCain CarbonTax would reach into every nook & cranny of a person’s life and raise the regulation thereof! You obviously also remember McCain’s excessive profits remark, his quip about CEO saleries, and the host of others.

    promising to lose us the war on islamist terrorism,

    Wow, glad that fence was built!
    No terrorist will just walk drive in a semi across the border with a dirty bomb or suitcase nuke, or even a EMP device now!

    Everybody thought McCain would just do quick cosmetic fixes, but look! he’s built the border fence in 7 days, and all by himself, too! Paul Bunyan, hang your head!

    promising to set up a nanny state with entitlement programs that you will have to pry away from peoples cold dead fingers,

    Well, he’s certainly helped to keep that Social Security trust fund alive with his leadership against privatization! I guess he’ll have his friends across the isle from him work to just repeal Social Security, right?

    promising to push our national debt over our GDP which will effectively render our dollar worthless,

    Carbon Tax

    promising to keep us hooked on foreign oil,

    ANWAR, all the positions he’s echoed of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s

    promising to keep abortion legal and even expand them,

    I’d be willing to grant you this point, but:
    Have you searched on “Wisconsin” and “McCain” yet? How do you explain away that?

    Well, since you haven’t, despite repeated urgings, let me quote & point you to an overview:
    here, but the section below explains the piece quite weel:

    WRTL involves an as-applied challenge to the McCain-Feingold “electioneering communication” prohibition, which bars corporations and labor unions from broadcasting ads mentioning the name of a federal candidate within 30 days of a primary and 60 days of a general election. In 2004, WRTL wanted to do grass roots lobbying ads about upcoming votes in Congress and claimed that the electioneering communication prohibition could not be constitutionally applied to its grass roots lobbying ads. On December 21, 2006, the district court agreed.

    When the McCain-Feingold bill was proposed, its sponsors always promised that “genuine issue ads” (including grassroots lobbying) would not be banned. For example, on March 23, 2001, Sen. Jeffords (who introduced the Snowe-Jeffords amendment that became the electioneering communication prohibition) declared on the Senate floor that the prohibition will not affect the ability of any organization to urge grassroots contacts with lawmakers on upcoming votes. The Snowe-Jeffords provisions do not stop the ability of any organization to urge their lawmakers on upcoming issues or votes. That is one of the biggest distortions of the Snowe-Jeffords provisions. Any organization can, and should be able to, use their grassroots communications to urge citizens to contact their lawmakers. Under the Snowe-Jeffords provision, any organization still can undertake this most important task.

    Yet Sen. McCain now denounces the district court’s ruling that WRTL’s grass roots lobbying ads are not banned by McCain-Feingold.

    Sen. McCain intervened in WRTL to stop WRTL from broadcasting ads asking people in Wisconsin to contact Senators Feingold and Kohl and urge them to vote against the burgeoning filibusters of President Bush’s judicial nominees. Sen. McCain also opposed WRTL’s effort to get court approval to broadcast a 2006 ad urging Senators Feingold and Kohl to oppose efforts to halt finalization of the Child Custody Protection Act (”CCPA”), which had passed by overwhelming margins in both houses of Congress but was prevented by parliamentary maneuvering from finally becoming law. The CCPA would have prohibited taking a minor across state lines for an abortion without parental consent or knowledge. Senator Kohl had voted for passage of the CCPA, but during the prohibition period, when WRTL was unable to effectively grassroots lobby, he switched sides.

    Sen. McCain, and other members of Congress, also intervened in a companion case, Christian Civic League of Maine v. FEC, which is also now on appeal to the Supreme Court after being dismissed as moot. The CCLM case was conferenced by the Supreme Court on February 16, but the Court has issued no order concerning the disposition of the case. It is assumed that the Court is holding the case for disposition after the decision in the WRTL case. In the CCLM case, Sen. McCain intervened to try to stop CCLM from broadcasting ads in support of the federal Marriage Protection Amendment, which defined marriage as between one man and one woman.

    In both WRTL and CCLM, the efforts of the FEC and Sen. McCain were effective in gagging these citizen groups from broadcasting their ads when they could have made a difference on the issue involved. Notably, the district court has now held that WRTL’s anti-filibuster ads were constitutionally protected, which does not change the fact that WRTL forever lost the opportunity to broadcast them when they might have made a difference.

    promising to gut the military,

    He was ranking member of Committees that oversaw the military during the Clinton years. When Clinton was gutting the military why didn’t he say anything? When the CIA needed him? Actually, he was absent in the whole lead-up to the war. What about the “McCain-ACLU”, or as its called the “Anti-torture” amendment? That, at its heart makes the assumption that we use torture as a matter of course, when I don’t concede we’ve ever used it! How about closing Guantanamo Bay?

    promising to get more and more people hooked on big government

    So, let me try to understand this. He supports CFR, which is an attack on the 1st amendment, he wants to take excessive profits from oil companies, he thinks that company executive get too much compensation and wants to take that, he supports Big Education, subs to farmers, alternative energy,expansion of American with Disabilities Act, The McCain-Snowe-Dorgan S. 2328, amnesty, calling the Swiftboat Vets “dishonest and dishonorable”… there are more.

    How about some class warfare?
    Perhaps you’d like some quotes:

    “I am concerned that repeal of the estate tax would provide massive benefits solely to the wealthiest- and highest-income taxpayers in the country.” – Sen. John McCain (Sen. John McCain, “Statement Of Senator John McCain On H.R. 8, The Death Tax Elimination Act,” Press Release, 6/11/02)

    Sen. McCain: “I Think The Estate Tax Level Ought To Be At About $10 Million, And Then At Approximately 15% In Taxes At That Point.” SEN. MCCAIN: “I think the estate tax level ought to be at about $10 million, and then at approximately 15% in taxes at that point. In other words, so we take care of 99% of the family farms, businesses in America. … not complete elimination of the estate tax, but certainly at a level that would take care of 99½ % of all American families, farms, and businesses in America.” (Iowans For McCain YouTube Website, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfI_KJACAvg, Posted 12/17/07)

    Or How about some Liberal Democrat love:

    “I believe my party has gone astray. I think the Democratic Party is a fine party, and I have no problems with it, in their views and in their philosophy.”

    McCain, 2004

    Well, I can certainly see why he’d visit D’s big-wigs to see about switching to a “D”

    Please explain how the following bills express anything other than a Liberal POV:
    McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy, “McCain-Byrd” (the gang of 14 deal), McCain-Lieberman, McCain-Kennedy-Edwards .

    which will accelerate this “slide” you speak of… That will somehow get the USA back to this mythical conservative utopia that you speak of.

    Wow, for someone who screams bloody muder saying that words are put in his mouth, you sure have no trouble doing that to me.

    My Dad asked for discussion on this. You, atheling, and your sockpuppets attacked. I started to take over Dad’s political discussions, so I’ve read the archives. I pointed out, in the comment that has twisted your panties, that the LOTE strategy is harmful in the same way that Low Expectation policies for education harm kids. If you expect the least from people, you are never disappointed — they give you the least.

    “Attack”. It is amazing to me how some so called conservatives can be so sensitive. The idea that McCain is for “killing babies” is a lie.

    Where did I say that? Find it for me, will you… I must have been sleep blogging.

    He is pro life and has a record to back it up. It is that idea that is attacked, especially because it effectively endorses someone who is proven to be on the side of, quite literally baby killing.

    Perhaps. Since I never said he killed babies, but just shilled for Planned Parenthood, I don’t know what you mean. That he shilled for PP is obvious from the information I linked to above.

    So is anything other then calling a stupid idea “smart” an attack? Or is the standard just disagreeing with ideas that you agree with.

    Wow. I did that? When? I see you “Atta-boy”-ing a post

    On August 20th, 2008 at 12:48 pm, Bill Grant said:

    that calls all people who have a problem with McCain RINOs.

    At the core of it in my case is the recognition that an Obama presidency will fundamentally alter this country in ways that will prove to be irreversible. At the core of it is a realization that you do not gain influence by throwing elections.

    So, were do we start? At what point do we draw that line in the sand? Where do we make our stand?

    At the core of it is a line of dedication to the USA since 1688 and the Constitution since 1787 that I will not break faith with. At the core of it is an old promise to defend this country from all enemies and MY promises don’t end.

    Well, if browbeating everyone who disagrees, telling them that any choice but your choice will destroy this country, proudly standing up for a candidate who’s biggest lifetime legal achievement is crafting a law that circumscribes political speech, calls those who have honest disagreement “bigots” is not breaking faith with the point of everything the Founding Fathers wrote, I truly am sorry. All I’ve done is point out that though JM says he’s one way, he’s “seen the light”, there are plenty of instances where his past performance says otherwise.

    Here an honest, non-snarky question: I hear everyone who is urging me to vote for JM that is Lifetime Rate at the CU is “X”, (doesn’t matter what “X” is for the validity of my argument…). I won’t argue that a high rating is a good thing. However, what are the trends? Have you graphed his yearly rating? Does it show an increase in what we want or a decrease? Is there a sharp change in direction, and if so when and what environmental factors could have accounted for the shift? Using a macro-index to predict a trend can bankrupt you. In some cases, it can even kill you.

    These are the things I think about, and how I approach problems. I do this for everyone I vote for. I really, literally laugh when people like atheling, franksalterego, and you accuse me of being uninformed. Have you done this level of homework? You don’t argue like it. When you have done this level of homework on JN, or Obummer or anyone else. You & your friends accuse people you don’t like of being off their meds, of being lazy, stupid, closet Obummer supporters, etc. When someone finally has enough and responds in kind your panties get a twist. It simply won’t enter your mind that someone can disagree w/you and not be for Obummer. Like those who are against gay marriage/NEA/income redistribution/illegal aliens getting super-citizen rights are homophobes/stupid/greedy/bigots. You tolerate no dissent while proclaiming you are the dissenters. That’s sort of Alinsky, isn’t it? Is that really the viewpoint you want to project? How does that help JN?

    Remember that the next time you go on about urinating in plants, screwing up someone else’s name or

    Then stop assassinating MM character. What have you done that can compare?

    taking up half the forum with your double spaced “look at me” diatribes Mr.flowerchild. You are in no position to be lecturing about manners.

    I’m much too old to have been a flowerchild. Knowing my Dad’s age range, how long I’ve been studing the culture, and the fact that I voted for Nixon 3 times should have clued you in. I guess math & logic aren’t your strong suit.

    I also find it interesting where you break your quote of me off, ignoring the points about twitting newbies, assassinating MM character, and all the snarky-nasty comments about how she’s an enemy. And my answer is the same: if you don’t like it, turn the channel. It does seem, though, that you’d rather tell her and other what to post.

    As for the formatting of my posts this week, as I wrote in one of the forums, I was trying out my Dad’s method of using his LifeDrive PDA, because I was off Quarters and back at work part-time. My employer frowns on using their computer for political work, but I have large sections where I am waiting for someone else, classic “hurry up and wait” as it were, where I can go online with my own computer.

    As I posted in one of the threads, I’ve found it unacceptable to use the PDA, and a large part of that is because of the formatting issue and the way it narrows to a tiny window what I can read. For example, if I want to read something higher on the thread I have to reload the whole site. And the “Preview” button doesn’t work.

    But, with you Form trumps Substance.

    I stand by my comments about you and your peanut gallery I made to allrsn.
    I have no problem discussing differences with allrsn, T-Bone, quite a few others on this site, my CO — all principled people voting McCain. You, atheling, franksalterego, jsmiddleton4 all present a false choice: “my way or the highway!” argument where you invert, browbeat, belittle anyone who raises a question about your candidate. If McCain loses, it will be MM, Joy’s Limbaugh’s, my fault. In short, anyone’s fault but his. The exact same methods used by the Left and are those currently being used by both the Obamanation and Hilary. Are you going to argue they aren’t using them? Are you going to argue they’re different when you use them? Are you going to argue that you aren’t using them. If you choose the last, there are lots and lots of your posts that will gainsay you.

    I’ve went to the trouble of answering your post, point-by-point, and hope you’ll do the same.

    I might have expressed some unearned animosity toward you. If I have, I most humbly apologize. I guess I just keep remembering when reading through the archives, I found the responses you, atheling, irose, franksalterego, and some of the others made to Da’s query: “The Question”. It was, and still is a valid question. I still see you answering valid questions the same way.

    I have no loyalty to party. If what you say advances the goals of the Constitution, I’ll support you. I have cheered atheling, irose, even you when what was said was right. In atheling’s case, I’ve even taken her part against those you’d lump as friends with, (unless I misremember, there’s a whole month that’s just a fuzzy blur to me…)

    This is very long, and I’m sorry about that. I just do not see how your accusations could be answered in less space. Maybe See-dubya could give me pointers, because I’d certainly like to get good at this.

  67. #167
    On August 21st, 2008 at 10:45 am, Savage24 said:

    Scratch that Bush has gotta be the blame for this, and insert Carl Rove masterminded the operation.

  68. #168
    On August 21st, 2008 at 12:40 pm, Joy said:

    martin jr - The biggest bravo ever to your post #166. Very… well… done.

  69. #169
    On August 21st, 2008 at 1:09 pm, martin.musculus(jr.) said:

    Thanks, Joy!

    Unfortunately I am uncertain that Bill or the others will respond in the same spirit, assuming they respond at all.

    On another note:
    There has been a change in Dad’s status, an improvement! He’s gone from a type 1 to a type 2 coma!

    There was an accidental mixup in his IV meds, (a “same name” error…) and it almost killed him.

    As we came out of that, Dad’s new friend, the Dr. who warned us about the Head-of-Dept at the original hospital’s Euthanasic Enthusiasms came by and after some tests gave us the good news!

    Because of my attention to Dad & the recuperation from my tumble down the stairs I’m swamped w/paperwork. That incl.s a couple of OPRs that must be re-edited and sent up the chain by tomorrow. I am going to post a status report bringing everything up to date by 2100h Sat., 23Aug. If you’re curious, look for it then on Dad’s board.

    In Dad’s journal on his political work, your mentioned as being LDS. Is that correct?

  70. #170
    On August 21st, 2008 at 5:53 pm, Bill Grant said:

    “This is very long, and I’m sorry about that. I just do not see how your accusations could be answered in less space”

    You have posted 3427 characters on this page… About a 3rd of the content.

    Sigh. I am going to have to attack this in bites but I susoect that it is worthless because you are just going to hear what you wish to.

    “Why you’ve seen the light! You realize that the McCain CarbonTax would reach into every nook & cranny of a person’s life and raise the regulation thereof!”

    McCains carbon tax is DOA. It has no support in either house, in either party. It is a non issue. Even if it were to pass unaltered (which it never, ever will) it would certainly not reach into every nook & cranny of a person’s life any more then any other consumption tax. Again, even he isn’t really pushing it.

    Socializing health care has support in both the Senate and the house as well as the American population. Once you get hooked on socialism it is next to impossible to get rid of it.

    “Wow, glad that fence was built!”

    Focus: War on islamist terrorism being fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. The ones we would have lost had we left it to the democrats who made the cynical political calculation that they would get more percentage points in the polls by losing a war that they voted for and blaming it on Bush. That is treason and it got Americans killed. That is what you will be rewarding with an Obama presidency. Further you will be rewarding the tactics of Murtha who called our Marines and Soldiers murderers and John Kerry who called them terrorists You will be rewarding the Kos kids who celebrated American deaths and used it to bludgeon the Bush Administration for standing up to the criminals behind 9/11. You will be rewarding George Soros who has spent billions to drag the USA in to the dirt through socialism, appeasement and the destruction of American sovereignty. You will be giving unchecked power to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid who fought against the surge and the general behind it calling it a failure and endorsing language that called him a traitor. You will be endorsing the stupid, criminally incompetent, surrendering, cowardly and un-American approach that Obama advocated which would have lost us the war in Iraq.

    This may seem a fine price to pay for your continued tantrum but I honestly have a tough time calling it anything but traitorous as well.

    Ill have at the rest of the tome later. (Hopefully the cliffs notes will get published)

  71. #171
    On August 21st, 2008 at 7:45 pm, martin.musculus(jr.) said:

    Sigh. I am going to have to attack this in bites but I susoect that it is worthless because you are just going to hear what you wish to.

    “Why you’ve seen the light! You realize that the McCain CarbonTax would reach into every nook & cranny of a person’s life and raise the regulation thereof!”

    McCains carbon tax is DOA. It has no support in either house, in either party. It is a non issue. Even if it were to pass unaltered (which it never, ever will) it would certainly not reach into every nook & cranny of a person’s life any more then any other consumption tax. Again, even he isn’t really pushing it.

    Yes the same was said about the drug bill and McCain-Feingold. I note that both are now law.

    Focus: War on islamist terrorism being fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. The ones we would have lost had we left it to the democrats who made the cynical political calculation that they would get more percentage points in the polls by losing a war that they voted for and blaming it on Bush.

    Yes. The Left did that. I watched it unfold, with my unit, from Iraq.

    This may seem a fine price to pay for your continued tantrum but I honestly have a tough time calling it anything but traitorous as well.

    How nice. I had thought you were off to a great start, but those personal attacks just keep coming.

    You use the pejorative “tantrum”, but you respond to my links of information with accusations and emotionalism.

    You have posted 3427 characters on this page… About a 3rd of the content.
    ….
    Sigh. I am going to have to attack this in bites but I susoect that it is worthless because you are just going to hear what you wish to.

    For someone who very little good to say about MM, you certainly are concerned about the space I take up on her site. How laudable. I think, however, that we can let Michelle worry about that, especially since that comment was to her, and not you. BTW, that points up one of the exact things I am speaking about. By what authority do you set yourself up as a gatekeeper for acceptable speech, both its content and its length? What business is it of yours to stand in judgment of anyone on this site, much less the hostess as to what speech is acceptable?

    But, to concede the point: if the amount of space worries you, click on my name and we’ll take it there. You can even invite your support group along, I won’t mind. And I promise not to limit your speaking space.

    But to address the reason for the length: I quoted you in full whenever possible in order to avoid the accusation that I answered the “easy questions” or took you out of context. I thought the step necessary after recognizing your debating style detailed in a series by Phillip Ellis Jackson called “Looney Liberal Chronicles” on a website I enjoy http://www.intellectualconservative.com

    The 2nd part of the quote is even more interesting coming on the heels of your “cut & snip” above. You might just want to include the important part of that statement set:

    No terrorist will just walk drive in a semi across the border with a dirty bomb or suitcase nuke, or even a EMP device now!

    You didn’t address that. I can’t understand why, do you not think that walking a bomb across the border important?

    I don’t know if I can help you see this. You seem to be a good, usually thoughtful person. If I did didn’t think so, I’d be editing an OPR to send to Randolf instead of trading slaps in the face using flounders with you.

    Regardless of what you think of Joy’s emotional delivery, she is correct about that the soft conservatives are adopting the Alinsky tactics of the Left. That was how I was able to ID your debating style from Jackson’s essays. We won’t win if you use those tactics because once a non-activist, (a regular person) realizes how they’ve been browbeaten and manipulated they will never be swayed by your arguments. Never. You cannot guarantee control of the flow of information. This is where the Left made their mistake, and we can turn it around. IF we had a leader instead of poll-followers we could illustrate how the Left has manipulated the bulk of the citizenry. Once we show them that, that all for Liberalism for 2 generations. I make that projection because of the backlash that even a little exposure of the Alinsky method has caused. We have a small window, but we can do it.

    As bad as the O’bomber & Co are, we’ll survive it because the head of the party won’t be someone who was trying to become the a member of the other party. We still won’t control the information, but since we acted in good faith we can still convince the general public. If McCain wins by people of your stripe using the same methods as Hillary and O’bomber the public will find out. When they do, we’ll loose their trust. Loose the trust o