Abu Ghraib-i-fying America’s schools
My second syndicated column of the week takes a break from the campaign trail to expose a joint effort by the ACLU and Human Rights Watch to Abu-Ghraib-i-fy America’s schools. You won’t be surprised to learn who’s behind the report, which is here.
Hint:
***
Abu Ghraib-i-fying America’s schools
by Michelle Malkin
Creators Syndicate
Copyright 2008
The Citizens of the World who hate America are going to love the latest agitprop released this week by Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union. In a document titled “A Violent Education: Corporal Punishment of Children in US Public Schools,” the left-wing groups seek to paint a horrifying portrait of the nation’s classrooms as Abu Ghraib-like torture chambers. The report compiles sob stories of students humiliated after being disciplined by school officials for unruliness and claims that minority students are being “disproportionately targeted” for punishment. Citing international law and threatening lawsuits, Human Rights Watch and the ACLU are demanding that the White House and Congress ban physical discipline in all public schools. (Only 13 states still allow corporal punishment.)
The report says “more than 200,000 US public school students were punished by beatings during the 2006-2007 school year,” but makes no distinctions between “beatings” that take the form of mere knuckle-rapping versus swats on the backside versus over-the-line violent confrontations. In several of the anecdotes cited in the paper, it wasn’t bruised bottoms that upset the supposedly brutalized students. It was their bruised egos. “Peter S., a middle school student in the Mississippi Delta,” whined to the researchers: “The other kids were watching and laughing. It made me want to fight them. When you get a paddling and you see everyone laugh at you, it make you mad and you want to do something about it.” How about ending your bad behavior and flying right?
Of course, educators must use common sense when punishing bad apples. Of course, they should be held accountable if they cause undue harm. But the agenda of these outfits is not to ensure the safety of everyone in the classroom. Their agenda is to demonize unapologetic enforcers of order and to impose international dictates on American public institutions. The main author of the report is a special fellow with the Open Society Institute, funded by George (America must be “de-Nazified”) Soros. Replete with references to the Convention against Torture and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the report declares in sweeping terms: “All corporal punishment, whether or not it causes significant physical injury, represents a violation of each student’s rights to physical integrity and human dignity. It is degrading and humiliating, damaging the student’s self-esteem and making him or her feel helpless.” It’s Gitmo all over again.
As usual, the Human Rights Watch/ACLU activists inject claims of racial discrimination into the mix — repeatedly underscoring that many of the remaining states that allow corporal punishment are in the South. They infer deliberate targeting of black students based on statistics that reportedly show that “in the 13 southern states where corporal punishment is most prevalent, African-American students are punished at 1.4 times the rate that would be expected given their numbers in the student population, and African-American girls are 2.1 times more likely to be paddled than might be expected.” But minority disproportionality does not automatically equal discrimination. What they don’t tell you are the races or ethnicities of the victims of the thugs getting disciplined. What they don’t bother to mention — because it doesn’t fit the America-as-torturer-of-minorities narrative — is the unmitigated violence being perpetrated in American classrooms against minority teachers.
The recent videotaped beating of black Baltimore teacher Jolita Berry by a black female student — as other black students cheered and screamed “Hit her!” — exposed the continuing chaos in inner-city districts. In that school system alone, 112 students were expelled for assaults on staff members this school year. Federal education statistics show that between 1996 and 2000, 599,000 violent crimes against teachers at school were reported. On average, the feds say, in each year from 1996 to 2000, about 28 out of every 1,000 teachers were the victims of violent crime at school, and 3 out of every 1,000 were victims of serious violent crime (i.e., rape, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault). Violence against teachers is higher at urban schools.
America’s problem isn’t that we’re too tough and cruel in the classroom. It’s that we’ve grown too soft and coddly, too ashamed and too cowed to assert authority and take unilateral action to guarantee a secure environment. Exactly where the human rights groups want us.
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My siblings and I never got into trouble in school for one simple reason: we knew damn well that if our parents ever got word from the school that we’d caused a problem, anything that the teachers or the principal might do to us would pale by comparison to what’d be waiting for us when we got home.
Most of the other kids operated under the same ground rules. The net result was that we experienced few disruptions in the classroom. The teachers were authorized to use mild corporal punishment, but I only saw it done once (to a kid who, last I heard, ended up in prison).
That’s ancient times nowadays. Not only are the teachers forbidden from even touching the students, but in too many cases when the school tries to do anything to check unruly behavior the parent(s) [Singular as often as plural these days -- that's another story] come riding in like the cavalry — to defend the little miscreants.
What else is to be expected when parents won’t teach discipline and manners at home because “That’s the schools’ job,” yet they won’t let the schools teach those qualities, either?
You get “Lord of the Flies” made real.
Does this report state whether or not these same “minorities” are “disproportionally” committing acts that need to be disciplined and punished for? of course not.
this type of thing is the same with crime and prison statistics. While Liberals and other race-baiters like to go on and on about the “disproportionate” amount of minorities in prison, they do so in a completely dishonest way. They attempt to make it look like all cops and judges are racists, and while apparently whites commit the lions share of the crimes, it is minorities who are made to pay while the judges and police turn a blind eye to whites and either do not arrest them or, once arrested, allow them to be released or never put into prison at all for their crimes.
This statement has taken on a very dishonest and misleading tone. It needs to be accompanied with the report of who is doing the crimes..or in this case, misdeeds…and compare that with who is being “punished”, either in schools or in prison. Otherwise it is nothing but meaningless race-baiting drivel and not worth the paper…or computer bites…on which it is written.
Indeed.
I went to Catholic school and was taught by Benedictine nuns who still used corporal punishment, though it was light. The main thing that scared all the kids was when you got sent to the principal’s office, who was a middle aged nun with steely blue eyes. She never raised her voice - and she had a very soft voice. She never used corporal punishment. All she had to do was give you a hard look, and you shrunk. Even the older boys would be brought to sheepish silence if she stared at them. Some people have that ability.
However, being sent to her office meant a phone call to home. And that’s what had us kids quake in our shoes. Our parents were the ones who, as we all knew, would give us hell (and spanking was clearly on the table) if we misbehaved. The threat of expulsion was frightening enough, because the shame and humiliation would be too much to bear.
But then, that was a time when shame and humiliation were excellent tools in toeing the line.
#43. I can’t say, since my experiences were at far different decades. But I remember the 60s too well in Chicago. When my best friend was killed in Vietnam, I went to his parents house. He became a police recruit just before he was drafted. He police friends were also at his families home. I had to sit through an evening listening to these morons brag about beating up black derilics they wound find on the streets. My friend never exhibited such racism, but these cops were disgusting. I also remember guys from my high school burning cars at Marquette Park during the King March.
I sure hope things are different today.
When I went to school, they would give you permission slips to be signed by your parents - which would permit the principal to spank you. My parents would ask me “Where is my form to sign?” They couldn’t sign it fast enough! I explained to them that they hadn’t given those to us yet (since school had just started).
I was never spanked at school, but I was by my parents at home. Like others here, if I had done anything to deserve a spanking at school, I knew there would be plenty more where that came from when I got home!
I actually felt shame for when I did wrong. Having to see the principal was a disgraceful thing, and notifying my parents would have been dreadful. Sadly, many other kids didn’t have any concept of shame for their misbehavior. Threatening to tell their parents meant nothing, because their parents didn’t take things like honor, shame, etc. seriously.
It all comes down to the family. Too many kids these days don’t have strong families, which is why we are having so many problems now.
And what such people fail to understand is that true self-esteem cannot be given, it must be earned.
There’s a word for unearned self-esteem: narcissism.
Two things which, ironically enough, would build genuine self-esteem if pursued.
Maybe my view is a bit scewed seeing as how i went 12 years Catholic school. Yes, i had nuns, and all those “jokes” you see and hear comedians tell about how nuns would smack you with rulers or what-not are only funny because they are true. I had one principal whose chosen method of punishing students was to smack the open palm of your hand with a wooden spoon. I received said punishment only once in the third grade for rock throwing. It was just one smack and left my right hand feeling like it was stung by a bee for a good 20 minutes…and you can bet I never threw another rock. I had another nun in the 4th grade who could have put Nolan Ryan to shame. She was capable of having her back to the classroom while writing on the board and, in the blink of an eye, could pick up an eraser and spin around, throwing said eraser across the room and beaning the talking offender in the back of the head with 99.9999% accuracy every time.
While I am not saying they were correct in what they were doing, it is really hard to argue against the fact that there was never any such thing as a disciplinary problem at any of he schools I attended. There were no teachers in dread peril of being robbed, hit, raped or murdered, nor would the teachers…lay or otherwise…ever feel the need to “pack heat” in order to teach the children.
Today’s schools are the way they are for one reason, and one reason only. When the children have no fear of retribution of any kind, they do not feel the need to behave. Teachers and principals have had every method of discipline removed from them. You cannot even scold a child for misdeeds else you may harm their delicate emotional status, scarring them for life. Thus, the children feel they can do anything they want.
Add to that the fact that there is nothing known as “Parental involvement” anymore, and what do you have left? You have the inmates running the assylum. Teachers being hade to feel like they have to carry guns just to protect themselves in the classroom, metal detectors to scan children for weapons as they come in in the morning, other children fearing for their safety simply because they get good grades and more.
And who is to blame for all this? It is the Liberals, the Teacher’s Unions, the ACLU, and others just like them. They hog-tie the administration and educators, and then complain about the state of the schools, blaming the Republicans for not supporting education enough.
I say it is far time to bring back corporal punishment in schools. If a kid like the one mentioned in the article, feels embarrassed and such for being disciplined, ten they will go out of their way to make sure that it does not hapen. However, so long as they know they can whine abot it to someone and know that “There;s nothing you can do about it”, they will continue to misbehave and destroy the chances of others who actually want to learn. Until Liberals and Democrats realize that it is just their “feelings” that are destroying things in this country, it will continue to be destroyed until nothing remains but complete and total anarchy.
Yes trolls…your beliefs and the things you espouse does far more damage to this country, it’s population and the world than anything your “feelings” make you believe.
I had a 6th grade nun teacher, Sr. Olivia, who did the same! She would whizz that eraser and it would smack your head, leaving a big white chalkmark in your hair or face. It was hilarious.
We weren’t allowed to chew gum in school either, and if someone got caught, he had to wear the piece of gum on his nose all day long, while the other kids would laugh and ridicule him. Needless to say, that didn’t happen very often. It was embarassing.
Ah, those were the days!
#35
I used to laugh when my uncle made his kids cut their own switches for their arse whoopin’s! spare the rod, spoil the child.
I’m quoting Trollman here but a number of you have said the same thing. This cuts to the heart of why I’m opposed to corporal punishment in schools.
Trollman (for example) was clearly raised in a home that taught him some values, among them respect for his fellow human beings and for authority. And so the actual punishment was the knowledge that he’d betrayed those values and the sense of guilt and shame it brought. The pain of a beating was incidental and, I suspect, ultimately meaningless by comparison.
In contrast the children who serially, seriously misbehave are bereft of those values. Lacking those values the transient pain of a beating will do nothing to correct their behavior.
What I’m saying is if you’ve raised decent kids there’s no need for the teacher to ever hit them, and if you’ve raised monsters hitting them won’t do any good. Hence, there shouldn’t be corporal punishment in schools.
Also, as a practical matter, even if you’re in favor of spanking your own children I’m honestly stunned at how many people here are willing to trust total strangers to do it. It’s mind boggling.
I don’t think corporal punishment is the reason for that. I think a more likely explanation is that the sort of parent who is willing to go to the extra work and sacrifice needed to send their kid to a Catholic school is probably the sort of parent who has instilled some values in that kid along the way.
It’s cliche’ but it’s true… it’s really funny until someone loses an eye.
I have to respectfully disagree. While some kids would respond like Trollman, some won’t. Not all kids are the same, and not all respond similarily to particular punishments.
I really think that before the age of reason, which is traditionally considered to be 7 years, kids should be spanked for certain offenses, i.e., running across the street carelessly and almost being killed after being told not to; kids who treat others (and animals) cruelly, endangering themselves or others, etc… A 3 year old will remember being spanked on the butt more readily than some lecture on the dangers of playing with matches. After they reach the age of reason, the lecture should be sufficient, or accompany corporal punishment.
I got paddled in school.
Guess what, I stopped doing the stupid stuff that got me the paddling.
I believe that it made me the violent, war-mongering, America loving, Airborne Infantry, productive American that I am today.
Ok, maybe it didn’t make me those things, but it did re-enforce the values that that the country is based on.
#1 being that you reap what you sow, no matter if it’s good or bad.
Ron Rockstar said:
The people you heard from, they heard it from Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.
Oh give me a break! I guess you never held a chalk eraser. It was made of pure wool! How can a rectangular piece of wool put out an eye???
Really, you’re being silly, now.
BTW, James Felix, are you a lawyer?
I should probably have made this more clear in my comments. Although I’m not personally in favor of spanking I understand that some parents think it’s needed and I can respect that.
What I think is insane is the idea that some stranger should have the legal authority to lay a hand on your kid. Because 99.9% of the time that’s exactly what the teacher is. If any other stranger hit your kid I doubt you’d ask him to justify it, I think you’d probably beat the crap out of him.
I am not. I do, however, come from a family of cops and it’s made me somewhat conversant in law (strictly at a layman’s level).
Have you ever clapped erasers to get the chalk dust out of them? Know that loud “clack” sound they make when you slap them together? That’s not wool.
Something with sufficient density to be hurled across a room has got more than enough force to severely damage an eye. That’s not even taking into account the chalk dust and sundry other foreign material on it, all of which can cause a corneal abrasion. That’s not silly, it’s physical reality.
First off, the schoolteacher is not a stranger. They are members of the community, and where I grew up, parents were familiar with the teachers, especially if over the years that teacher has taught all the children in a family.
It is only in the past 35 or so years that your idea of teachers abstaining from corporal punishment has been in practice. Look at our schools now. Can you say that things are better? That children are better behaved now than when they were 100 years ago?
For centuries, schoolteachers and tutors had the right to corporal punishment. While some have definitely abused that right, the pendulum has swung to this silly attitude you and the left are espousing, and look where it has taken our society today: Chaos and disruption.
No, I disagree. Your liberal views of the classroom have not worked, and have actually destroyed the system which had been in place to educate and make children good citizens.
My wife is a teacher and has seen this for years. She teaches in a school with most every level of income and race. They have no power to do what is needed and little or no respect from the most troubled kids. Has anyone thought of the question: Maybe the minority kids are being punished disproportionately because THEY are the ones causing the most trouble? And before you cry racist, I know if you go to a “rich white school” there are troubled kids there as well. But in her school the question I raise is FACT. I’m not saying there is no racism but believe this story to be one of those typical liberal distortions, and have been a second hand witness to it through my wife. She does have several minority students who show appreciation for her caring so spare me the racist comments, please.
James Felix, you must have had different erasers than we did. Our erasers were soft, and made no sound when one cleaned them.
Sr. Olivia used sound judgment, and would never have done anything to injure a child, even accidentally. Never in the many years that she taught, has there been such an incident.
So, in this case, you are in error.
lgm
You must think this country and it’s people are so corrupt and inept that we need an international group to tell us when there is a problem. It just shows your complete lack of understanding on how our system works.
And how exactly would you know? Are you omniscient? Seriously, I’m getting the impression you just like to hear yourself type.
Not everyone grows up where you did. In an urban area or even in a largish suburb it is overwhelmingly likely that the teacher is a total stranger.
Again, you’re confusing correlation with causation. If the only change that had happened was refraining from corporal punishment then you’d have a strong point. But as we all know a lot more has changed that just that.
sigh.
It seems every time I express the mildest disagreement with the majority here I’m obliged to point this out. I’m an NRA life member, navy veteran, pro-border security, anti-tax, anti-pork, pro-war and never voted for a Democrat in my life. I assure you, I’m not a liberal.
You’re also, very mistakenly, assuming that because I don’t teachers to hit kids that I’m against punishment, period. I am nothing of the sort.
If corporal punishment was the deciding factor in the decline of the schools then all schools who banned it should have declined equally while those who retained the practice did not. That’s not what’s happened. The Catholic schools in New York, wherein it’s illegal for a teacher to strike a student, are still models of order and good behavior. If corporal punishment is so utterly vital how do you explain that?
I don’t want to get all derailed on an irrelevancy here, but if you honestly don’t think there’s the potential for injury when you throw something at a kid’s head then I just don’t know what to say.
You just noticing this now? You must be new.
Excuse me, but where did I call you a liberal? Please re-read what I wrote. I said, “…your liberal views of the classroom”. That is not the same.
And your citing that Catholic schools are “models” fails to note that discipline problems there are on the rise, as the news reports frequently. I agree that Catholic schools are better than public schools in terms of education and discipline, but the problems they face in the latter issue is rising dramatically.
And you are failing to accept the fact that lack of corporal punishment in schools also contributes to the problems therein. Yes, the break up of the family and loss of morals and values is the main culprit. However, the removal of consequences, i.e., punishments (corporal and otherwise) are also contributing factors. They are not mutually exclusive.
amigoneus
There’s thing called newspapers, business connections, TV, and a new thing called the internet. I think China comes to mind today.
Very disingenuous. You seem to lack discriminatory powers. Kids throw things at eachother all the time. Wadded up paper balls. Rubber bands. Baseballs. If you don’t see the difference between throwing a wadded up piece of paper and a baseball, well, my earlier statement of your silliness holds true.
Thank you, Michelle for this great article.
It really irritates me that organizations like ACLU and Human Rights Watch think that thousands of kids are being “mistreated” in their schools. What about their victims and the people they harm? What about taking responsibility for their actions instead of fixing blame on the people who are trying to keep chaos from breaking out.
As a teacher, I’ve worked in both primary and secondary school settings. I’ve had minority students hurl racial epithets at me as I was trying to maintain order and discipline in my classroom. I’ve had students (of all racial persuasions) make threatening gestures and even throw stuff at me. Is this the way a civilized society teaches its students to act? What say you, Math man?
Teachers aren’t allowed to do much. Many teachers are afraid of discplining their students or being the “adult.” In a lot of cases, it’s the system that ties the hands of teachers. If a teacher lays a hand on a student for the purpose of disciplining said student, that would invite a lawsuit.
The kids are in control now. We’ve become a country where not only teachers don’t stand up and ask students to get their priorities straight (like learning) but parents don’t want to be bothered participating in their kids’ lives or parenting period. It’s been my experience that the main reason why kids are so unruly is they have no adult in their lives telling them that their behavior is wrong.
What I find even more disgusting is how school systems and their permissive teachers lecture parents in how to “parent.” Schools are becoming increasingly concerned with the “rights” of students at the expense of overall discipline, safetey, and educational opportunity. As a teacher, I’ve felt my ability to teach was constantly under attack by unruly students.
Do you know what that feels like, Lgm? Do you know what it’s like when no adult will tell a kid right from wrong? Have you ever been threatened by a student?
All teachers can do these days is write up students. That’s it. You touch them or say something that “hurts their feelings” then you might as well consider a different profession. This is what frustrated me as a teacher. It wasn’t just union intrusion it was the lack of accountability regarding student behavior.
A lot of minority students are “targeted” I think because a lot of them act out. While I do believe, in some instances, that racism may be a factor in some school districts, it doesn’t explain the whole story. It doesn’t explain why many minority students come from single parent or broken homes, or why many of them drop out. There’s more than just racism at work here.
Poor darlings… it’s more like Lord of the Flies come to life in our schools more than anything.
Fixed it for ya, dipstick.
On August 22nd, 2008 at 1:04 pm, lgm said:
Nope. Nearly all the documented cases of state sponsored abuse and murder I’ve read of have come from the handful of Christian eyewitnesses and/or victims who managed to escape these horrific countries.
Personally, I think ALL schools should use corporal punishment as a deterrent. I can tell you when I was in school, the students were much more behaved since they knew the coach would be called to deliver punishment if the got out of line. Furthermore, the parents would also be called.
# 75 Drews2Cents
Are you sure you heard her right?
More likely it was
“I haven’t been cursed with children of my own.”
/channeling BO’s “punished with a baby” remark
RetFireman said:
Bah, Catholic school is weak compared to public schools. ;^)
I had a teacher in high school that was known to take off her shoe and throw it at a student (for talking or sleeping during class).
One time, she threw a staple-puller (that metal thingy with sharp points) at a kid across the classroom for sleeping. It missed him and almost hit another kid.
Oh, and ACLU, before you try to prosecute her, realize that she was a liberal (once she shared her disgust with how Bush Sr. was a racist because of the Willie Horton ad).
My brother-in-law used to be a teacher, but quit. He had a highschool boy who was getting violent, so he put him in a hold. He told the kid he would let him go if he would stop struggling and calm down. Later, he told his mommy, and mommy went ballistic because “my poor lil innocent Johnny was being hurt by the big meanie teacher.” That was when he decided he had had enough of this and changed professions. Teachers aren’t allowed to do what they need to do, or even to defend themselves anymore.
Back when I was in middle school, some punk threatened a P.E. teacher with a knife (stupid idea). This coach was built like an NFL player. He beat the tar outta that kid. I didn’t see the scuffle, but the imprint left on the metal lockers told the tale LOL. The coach was suspended for awhile during an investigation, but he was eventually allowed to teach again. GO COACH!
Classic straw man argument from FamilyMan (#122)
First, put words in someone’s mouth or thoughts in their head that aren’t there:
Then complain about those words or thoughts:
lgm:
What the devil are you babbling about?
No, they didn’t. Now answer my question.
(Most international organizations are completely impotent. So please, once again, tell me lgm, what have they accomplished in the countries you have listed?) If you can’t answer the question, just say so.
Which means you have a limited, if any, understanding of what goes on at a public school.
As a group, parents who send their kids to Catholic schools are more interested in seeing they get a decent education in a well-behaved environment, if for no other reason than most of them are paying for it, but usually goes beyond that to a fundamental belief in the family that a good education is a valuable tool to have on life’s journey. As a result, these schools attract a better product and those that don’t measure up can be forced to leave.
There is no weeding out process in public schools.
I went to good suburban public schools in the 50s and 60s and in 2003 had a brief, but similarly disappointing experience as has been outlined above as a substitute teacher. My experience taught me there is little similarity between a public school today and that of 50 years ago.
While there are always exceptions in the form of excellence in education today, sadly, the mob mentality is winning. There will be a price to pay down the line.
I got my rear busted by all kinds of teachers over the years. It never hurt my feelings what my schoolmates thought, because we definitely all deserved them. Our coaches even lined us up whenever we got our grades every 6 weeks, and gave us ‘licks’ based on how bad our grades were. I’ll never forget the one kid that got 4 F’s one time… OUCH!!!
Kids these days just need to deal with it and to quit having whiny parents that probably needed their rears busted back then too. Sorry, no sympathy here.
And while we’re at it, quit rubberizing their playgrounds and let them chip their teeth and breaks their arms just like all the rest of us did!!
lgm is an idiot. He is a good example of why spanking should be the law of the land.
GaMidnightRider said (#142):
OK, maybe.
I’m a boomer. As a kid we had prayer in public schools, segregation, and spanking at school and (for me) at home. Maybe more spanking would have made me grow up conservative?
This is the reason I won’t send my future children to public schools. No, not because teachers won’t be allowed to “spank” my children. But, because the sad fact is our public school system is too corrupt, whether they punish too much, my Fiance and I both have went through that, or don’t punish kids at all, the system is screwed.
I became homeschooled in Jr. High because of the abuse I endured from two different schools in my area. Want to know what I did to gain those punishments. I had health problems, yeah, that was my “unruly behavior”.
One of the teachers that pushed me to leave public shools also had a long history or throwing books and even desks at students. But, the lovely southern liberals around here thought it was a-okay.
Oh, and just to add, since it’s liberals pushing this thing as being in the south, and being full of racists. I’d say a good portion of those teachers are on their political side, every racist I’ve ever met in Arkansas is a democrat.
I’m sorry that this will be long, but it’s my personal pet peeve…
I would like to see how many of today’s teachers either quit one school to go to another that has a more corporal punishment philosophy, retired early or just go to another profession.
My three children are all grown now, but I can’t tell you how disappointing it was when the governing bodies that decide such issues stated that there would be no more corporal punishment in Michigan schools.
Now they have “peer remediation” where a bullied child has to stand up to his bullier in front of other kids (with maybe a teacher or administrator or two) and discuss the situation. Do they really think that works? Now the bullied child is a “fink” and it’s open field day on him in the future.
We had three dedicated teachers leave (2 were “rumored” to have had nervous breakdowns) because there is NO recourse in the schools for misbehaving or disruptive students. In our school’s case it was mostly Arab boys not listening to female teachers and the administration looking the other way because to punish them would be considered prejudicial.
I grew up in the same area, but I can tell you when I went to school there WAS corporal punishment, but not much. All it took, for the most part, was one or two disruptions and one or two swings of the paddle in front of the class at the beginning of the school year for everything to quiet down and education to begin. We still had fun, still laughed, still learned and life went on. Nobody brought a gun to school, let alone a knife bigger than a pocket knife.
People HAVE to face facts!!! Our children are at school during the week about the same amount of time as they are home. IF they get any discipline at home shouldn’t they also get some amount of discipline at school? I would have happily signed a waiver for my children to be disciplined and the school knew my sentiments. When my son urinated on the middle school exterior wall on a dare on his last day of school (before summer break and high school the next year) was caught, he was made to help the janitor close down the school for the summer (scrubbing desks and floors as well as a certain exterior wall, I’m certain), I thought it was a just and creative punishment that fit the “crime”!
When I did volunteer work at my oldest daughter’s fourth grade class in Maryland, I expected to help students who needed additional instruction. Much to my dismay I was asked to “supervise” misbehaving students in a glorified storage room so that the rest of the class didn’t have to be disrupted because the probability was that the disruptive child was a minority and punishment would seem prejudicial. When I asked the teacher why the child wasn’t sent to the principal’s office, I was told “that wasn’t an option!” See, the community we lived in was a “progressively planned community” with all income brackets mixed in, including welfare recipients. Now, I have no problem with people struggling to get on their feet needing a little help (we were military and JUST above poverty level for a family of five, the ONLY thing that saved us was our housing allowance for the area that we lived in). The one thing that blew my mind was that the children I was “babysitting” said to me point blank that their mom or dad told them that they didn’t have to listen to the teacher or any other adult. I stayed with the 3rd grade class for 3 months, then left to volunteer with the kindergartners which was much less stressful, if you can imagine.
Much worse was the fact that we had just moved from England and MY children were placed with the “slower” children to tutor THEM while in second and third grade while we had begged and pleaded with the administration to move them a grade ahead. The administration told us it would be difficult for our children to adjust to the “older” age group and refused. As a result, our children became bored and disinterested because they had covered all the curriculum while in England for the next TWO grades.
After my oldest daughter graduated from high school, she wanted to go to college to become a high school teacher. I told her in no uncertain terms that she didn’t have the right frame of mind to become a high school level teacher (she couldn’t even handle it when she was in high school). Now, mind you, she had the talent and would have made a great teacher! But in this day and age and rules, she would have burnt out in two to three years because she is very bossy and head-strong. She would have been an exceptional teacher 20 years ago, but would never have been able to handle the disruptions and non-administration back-up that is going on today.
One last point, I fully lay the blame on Dr. Spock (no, not of Star Trek fame) and his no spank, no harsh words child-rearing technique. He even spoke of his error (and offered an apology) after HIS child committed suicide under his rearage. While I’m sorry for his loss, I can’t help but wonder how much damage his books and speeches have done to our children, schools and society in general. There is no kinder, gentler way to raise a child than to let them know that there WILL be consequences to their actions if they do something wrong. Standing in the corner is fine as long as they are not standing there plotting the next heinous act that they can perpetrate.
Our children in the U.S. are doomed if the “Powers That Be” don’t get their act together! Being kinder and gentler is only going to teach them that they can get away with anything until they graduate and the REAL world hits them. Employers are NOT kind or gentle. If you don’t get the work done or disrupt the workforce, you are OUT (unless you are a minority)!!! And that’s NOT prejudice, I’ve witnessed it!!!
Hear, hear! Exactly! If discipline is imposed swiftly and decisively they stop pushing the border. To take corporal punishment off the table for unformed children is a recipe for The Lord of the Flies. They become as animals.
Maybe Im warped a little…lol When I was in kindergarten decades ago, I had a teacher tape my mouth shut. (Yes I deserved it) For my whole life, I thought that was normal. A couple of years ago, in random conversation, I mentioned it to my mom who retired after 35+ years. I was surprised at how shocked she was that a teaching professional would have done that.
But then again, in our town, a neighbor could whoop your rear if you were out of line - and your parents would thank them.
Maybe less spanking would have made me grow up a liberal? (props out to my boy lgm - word) But that wouldn’t explain why in lived in Berkeley either.
correction: But that wouldn’t explain why I lived in Berkeley either.
I think this one statement sums it up completely! From how great America was to the spiraling anarchy we’re headed for. When the foundational building blocks are taken away….the building completely collapses to the ground.
Pretty good. however, you must remember that back in the 70’s chalkboard erasers were not what they are today. They had that chunk of wood that was the backing of it, and at about 50 m.p.h., it left a mighty big knot on the back of the `ol grape.
There were, of course, the rulers across the knuckles, the kneeling on pencils, the holding of books in outstretched hands etc.
Anyone who went to Parochial school from the early 80’s on back can verify this…were they to have attended schools that were taught by nuns, and not the secular lay teachers they use today.
Let me tell you, it kept you in line really well, and for those that still needed to act out…well I believe it is called “Natural Selection”. Some folks are just too stupid and deserve all they get.
You gotta remember, with all the people that post here, sometimes it is hard to remember who the Libs are and who aren’t. I have been guilty of it as well, and just recently someone made the mistake of thinking I was a Lib…just made my stomach wretch thinking how anyone could even imagine it.
Gotta cut some slack here, not everyone posts as frequently as some, and thus mistakes will be made when a bit of a Lib thought comes out.
Once again, troll-boy makes a presumptive statement without a single bit of evidence to back it up.
And again, the little poo-butt is wrong.
How can you even THINK of writing such lies. That could NEVER happen. Surely you are mistaken, and you are actually black and was on a WHITE bus where you were pushed, kicked, shoved and threatened and harrassed daily, put in your place and made to realize that if you ever fought back in the slightest, you would be jumped and probably lynched.
After all…we all know that such things as you describe would NEVER happen. Hate crimes such as you have stated only occurr to blacks and are perpetrated by whites.
Who would believe your story?
Sorry for the multiple posts…getting caught up and it truly was furtile ground.
GOOD!!!! THAT’S THE BLOODY POINT, YOU IMBICILE!!!!!
Could someone tell me whatelse you are supposed to feel when you have done wrong and are on your way to meet your punishment? Oh, there is one thing this buffoon should be feeling, and it is the very thing that these kids lack, and the reason that the misbehaviour and the foulness and violence is so freaking prevalent in schools today.
REMORSE!!!!
Notice how he and the others never once said they felt remorseful in any way. The fact is, if they are sorry at all, it is only that they got caught and had to be punished, not because they ad done wrong and had hurt someone in the first place, either physically or emotionally.
With this report printing that statement of his, were they trying to elicit a response from us of us being and feeling sorry for him and the others? Well I for one, do not. In fact, they should keep it going and get these kids to realize they need to be remourseful for their actions, and that maybe, just maybe, if they could put theimselves in the other party’s shoes, they may keep from further punishments in the future.
Now, as for the person who stated that because Felix…and anyone else, I would imagine, who went 12 years Catholic or Private School such as myself, would not know anything or at the very least, know very little about how Public Schools run, I would tell you that you are wrong.
I may have gone 12 years, but my 4 children have all attended Public School, as well as I did have a 4 month stint in the 6th grade in a Public School and know all too well haw they operate.
Let me tell you, the 4 months i spent there were the most violent, loathesome time I could ever have had. I had begged my mother to let me go to a regular school, she allowed me and within the first few weeks I was BEGGING to be allowed to return to Catholic School. I had been jumped several times, had my life threatened with weapons, fists, etc., and been called various racist names. And yes, I did say this was only the 6th grade.
So actually, I would say that we, the ones who have attended Parochial School might just have a better understanding of the issue than you.
I guess you didn’t tour every classroom in the 60’s and 70’s. I attended Catholic parochial school in the late 60’s and early 70’s and our erasers did not have that wooden piece. They were made of pure felted wool, with a paper label sewn on top. They were completely soft.