I was studying Philosophy. All my professors were atheists/agnostics. I was regularly ridiculed for my Bible-based beliefs. My atheist classmates often shouted me down, insulting me. I even had a professor cuss me out in front of the class for mentioning the story of Lot.

Did I feel bad, or guilty because they tried to make me feel bad? Not at all. You see, deep down, I know what is true, and their condemnation does not change that. I don’t need to silence them so I can feel good about who or what I am.

That abortionists and homosexuals cannot do the same speaks volumes.

Hah, you’re comparing the ridicule you got in a single philosophy class to the ridicule, contempt, denial of rights, being told you’re hellbound, not being welcomed in churches, etc. etc. that gays feel? Nice try, but you fail.

The majority of abortion doctors and women who have abortions are not depressed. Like I said, your point fails.

…because we all know there is never any guilt on its own. There could never be any guilt by any woman who had an abortion because of remorse. There are plenty of women who suffer with their decision and didn’t need any help to feel guilty about it – it just came on its very own. Then, there are idiots like you and Rusty who diminish their pain and tell them they should go pack sand because “studies showed” they are just liars.

I never said they don’t feel pain. Nor that women who do feel guilt are liars. I think highly of most women and I know that choosing an abortion is one of the most difficult decisions a woman could make. If a woman does decide that an abortion is for the best, then we should give that woman sympathy and empathy, not brand her a murdering liberal – people like you only prolong and intensify this suffering.

We all know there are NO agnostics or atheists who think abortion is wrong or murder.

You know that Christians are the largest and loudest anti-choice organisation.

I do apologize. I should have used “he” or “She” instead of “it”. I was in a hurry to try to make a point and in my haste i made a mistake. I still think that abortion is no better than being a Hilter. Whether you are the Dr. or the mother. Murder is Murder. You hear all the time that a mind is t terrible thing to waste. WELL SO IS A LIFE !!!!

I re-read my post and I didn’t handle what I was trying to say very well. I owe Ga.MidnightRider
an apology.

I was trying to say that perhaps within all of us because of the way the word “baby” either appears or sounds to our brains as people (you, me, everyone), that this grammatical struggle between using “it” instead of “he or she” is happening, and thus the divide between abortion foes and supporters.

I am squarely in agreement with Ga.MidnightRider on this issue.

On August 29th, 2008 at 7:48 am, Omu said:
Do you ever think that this suffering and depression is probably a direct result of people like you (and Mrs. Malkin) who constantly shout and scream “murder” about abortion? It’s ironic; Christianist ‘conservatives’ so often use negative facts for which they are responsible as a means of denying rights to people.

…because we all know there is never any guilt on its own. There could never be any guilt by any woman who had an abortion because of remorse. There are plenty of women who suffer with their decision and didn’t need any help to feel guilty about it – it just came on its very own. Then, there are idiots like you and Rusty who diminish their pain and tell them they should go pack sand because “studies showed” they are just liars.

Nice try though – blame the Christians for everything bad. We all know there are NO agnostics or atheists who think abortion is wrong or murder.

On August 29th, 2008 at 12:38 am, Rusty said:

See people, this is how you build a perfect straw men. You don’t even need a stiff breeze to knock it down.

Uh, you don’t know what a straw man is, do you? Some one brought up emotional trauma as a reason why abortion was wrong and I said that was untrue. That is basically the opposite of what a straw man is.

UH, yes I do. But to take it a step further. A straw man cannot stand on its own. It needs to be propped up by something to give it “backbone”. It is weak on its own and needs a brain.

How does that apply to your statement (I’d link to the recent APA study that shows abortion does not cause emotional trauma)? It was weak, brainless and had no backbone. Your link does nothing to help the women who suffer. You are still telling them to get bent.

Sounds like a pretty good example to me.

Do you ever think that this suffering and depression is probably a direct result of people like you (and Mrs. Malkin) who constantly shout and scream “murder” about abortion? It’s ironic; Christianist ‘conservatives’ so often use negative facts for which they are responsible as a means of denying rights to people. Another example is with gay people – it is the fault of the homophobic bigot Christians that gay people suffer higher rates of depression, but yet still, the same Christians use this very fact as a way to argue that gays are intrinsically disordered, deserve not the right to marriage, etc.

Liberals, always passing the buck, never taking responsibility…

I was studying Philosophy. All my professors were atheists/agnostics. I was regularly ridiculed for my Bible-based beliefs. My atheist classmates often shouted me down, insulting me. I even had a professor cuss me out in front of the class for mentioning the story of Lot.

Did I feel bad, or guilty because they tried to make me feel bad? Not at all. You see, deep down, I know what is true, and their condemnation does not change that. I don’t need to silence them so I can feel good about who or what I am.

That abortionists and homosexuals cannot do the same speaks volumes.

http://www.catholicexchange.com/2008/08/29/113622/

you are fundamentally wrong on the trauma. i have known people that felt it was just a cell, until after the abortion. they couldn’t understand their depression nor could they understand what was going on with them emotionally, because they were on the side of the argument that you are, rusty.

Do you ever think that this suffering and depression is probably a direct result of people like you (and Mrs. Malkin) who constantly shout and scream “murder” about abortion? It’s ironic; Christianist ‘conservatives’ so often use negative facts for which they are responsible as a means of denying rights to people. Another example is with gay people – it is the fault of the homophobic bigot Christians that gay people suffer higher rates of depression, but yet still, the same Christians use this very fact as a way to argue that gays are intrinsically disordered, deserve not the right to marriage, etc.

I’d link to the recent APA study that shows abortion does not cause emotional trauma

RustyI have talked with women who have gone through abortion, who were pro-choice before their procedure, and yes they do suffer afterwards emotionally and some will admit it to their humiliation, but many will keep it to themselves too.

But to say they don’t at all is poppycock from the APA.

How can you defend it when the person being murdered is unable to defend itself

.

This well-meaning comment made by GA.MidnightRider is at least part of the problem why there is even a debate over abortion at all….I would use consciously “he or she” to replace the language temptation of “it”.

Once you start calling a baby “it” it “he or she” becomes dehumanized..we almost always say “a human” and then we think automatically “he or she” now don’t we?
Part of the problem may well be what inside our own brains we connote by the sound or spelling in English of the word “baby”, and forget that a baby will always be a he or she when born, and always will be a human -not a tarantula-in the womb…. Perhaps a defect in our brains yet to be recognized?

(I’m not attacking Ga.Midnight Rider by the way-I agree with him)