Pelosi gets taken to the Catholic woodshed
Well, it looks like Catholic officials are finally getting serious about holding left-wing public figures who claim the faith accountable for their words and actions:
Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has accepted an invitation from San Francisco’s archbishop to discuss whether she should continue to receive communion at the Catholic Church in the wake of comments she made about abortion.
San Francisco Archbishop George H. Niederauer requested the meeting after receiving letters and e-mails from “many Catholics” expressing dismay over Pelosi’s remarks that the question of when life begins remained controversial within the church. He said many of those writing questioned whether Pelosi should be able to receive communion.
Pelosi made the remarks in an Aug. 24 interview with “Meet the Press” host Tom Brokaw. In response to Brokaw’s question, “When does life begin?” Pelosi answered, “We don’t know. The point is that it shouldn’t have an impact on the woman’s right to choose.” She went on to say, “I don’t think anyone can tell you when life begins — when human life begins.”
After Brokaw said that the Catholic Church believes strongly that life begins at conception, Pelosi said, “I understand,” but went on to say it had been an issue of controversy within the church for the past 50 years.
Her comments have been criticized by several Catholic Church officials, and Niederauer described them as being “in serious conflict” with the church in the Sept. 5 issue of Catholic San Francisco. Washington Archbishop Donald W. Wuerl issued a separate statement the day after Pelosi’s “Meet the Press” appearance, criticizing the comments as “incorrect.”
Niederauer concluded that, based on Catholic Church statements, it is up to him as Pelosi’s pastor to address whether she may continue to receive communion.
Now, what about race-mongering Rev. Michael Pfleger?
And how about that Joe Biden, huh?
***
Catholicism is a voluntary association. No one is forced to be Catholic. If Pelosi can’t accept the foundational teachings of the Church, then she should find a church that supports abortion and stop making ridiculous rationalizations about Catholicism. Biden needs something more if he believes human life begins at conception and fails to act to protect it. It’s time for Catholics to demand that politicians who run on their faith begin to act on it as well.
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Awesome!
And remember this classic Hot Air post:
Pelosi clings to — and misquotes — her Bible
I hope she brings Joe Biden with her. He needs to get up to speed on what the church teaches.
“Thank you sir, may I have another?”
I couldn’t help myself with the “woodshed” analogy.
But glad the church is finally going after these pro-abortion Catholics..
doesn’t matter, most democrat voters would vote for hitler as long as they had a D after their name.
It’s about time. I remember Kerry didn’t exactly hold the church’s teachings in much regard, either. Just the tip of the iceberg, too, I imagine.
For two Sundays now, my parish has been taking Pelosi’s misstatements on the Church’s abortion position very seriously. Two homilies have been devoted to her MTP misstatements and to the letter of response by Cardinal Egan.
Judging reactions after these masses, I can report that the majority of my parish do not appreciate Ms. Pelosi nor her misstatements.
I as a Catholic that she can understand that being a pro-choice political figure and a Catholic are not mutually exclusive.
Sadly, I have to agree with that statement after watching what is happening with Democrats of late. They fight for habeas corpus for non-citizens who may be terrorists and want to arrest our POTUS.
But I thought SHE was the most powerful woman in the world?
“Pelosi gets taken to the Catholic woodshed”
Best. Title. Evah!!
Yawn, the Catholic church is a paper tiger. (I grew up in a highly Catholic family and went k through BA in Catholic schools.)
Slightly OT, but under the theme of “religion,” did anyone see the latest revelation regarding Obama’a “former” mentor and spiritual advisor?
I’m still confused as to whether the scandal is defined by the extramarital activity, or because his mistress is actually (gasp) white?
I was always told that if you didn’t know the answer, ask someone who does.
Nancy, may I suggest you ask John McCain or Gov. Palin.
If she is ex-communicated, the left will claim the Catholic Church is worse then the Taliban; forcing their views on the ‘government’.
I’d rather see her get taken to the woodshed by the voters.
How about just some remedial training in her so called faith. Perhaps open and read the BIBLE would be better place to start.
I would love to believe something would come of this, but I really have my doubts. It seems she can get away with anything (hey lefties, why not yell at her for having five kids?). The whole business about the politics of communion creeps me out. If Pelosi and her ilk have no problem with abortion at any time or place, they should leave their religion. Their true religion after all is the Party. Yet it appears the bulk of their constituents do not hold them accountable for their hypocrisy. I am missing something. Is the politics of pretense all that matters?
I can tell you what she’ll say as an ‘out’: that she made her repamrks as an elected offical, representing her consituency and her party and not as a practicing Roman Catholic.
But then does she regulary attend Mass to receive communion?
Just another milestone along the donkeys’ path to complete secularism. If Howard Dean quit his church over a bicycle path, look for San Fran Nan to bail out of Catholicism over something much more consequential.
Donkeys don’t need what they spit upon as “organized religion.” They have their their own animistic, polytheistic faith in the worhip of “Mother Gaia” environmentalism, the death cult of abortion, and the great pyramids of an all-powerful government.
They have their own idols and high priests/priestesses: Hopenchange, the Clintons, and algore.
And they have their own notions of Heaven: the UN, the EU and Hollywood.
Judeo-Christianity is just something for us rubes in flyover country to cling to, dontcha know? Hopenchange himself said so, and we all know he’s infallible….
In San Francisco? Not gonna happen.
Joe Biden’s in deeper water. He stated life begins at conception, but still upholds Roe V. Wade, effectively making it legal to kill what he considers human life. Oops!
Yes, it’s vitally important that we have religious institutions trying to dictate public policy.
In SF, the Bible is taken to the woodshed…to prop up a table with a short leg.
I’m a Southern Baptist. SanFranNan shouldn’t worry about what the Catholic Church says to her. She should worry what God says to her on Judgement Day.
Seems to me she either: A. Really doesn’t believe in God. Or B. is only nominally a Christian.
It’s much easier to be an expert without study. Besides the “Seperation of Church and State clause of the constitution” means that people in government can’t read Christian literature, doesn’t it? /sarc off
Yeah! We need dead-beat druggie rock stars(???) from across the pond to tell us how to vote though!
Good for the Archbishop.
More power to him!
From this link:
http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp
The following:
I am not Catholic; but, confirming what I’ve always felt, it sounds like various denominations, while having some differences, have an awful lot more in common….
Waiting for abortion apologists to show up in 5,…4,…3,….
Too bad that the Church has moved beyond corporal punishment. I’d like to see Pelosi being paddled for her outrageous double-standard and Catholicism-as-a-prop attitude.
I never understood how a person could support ABORTION (not “choice”) and consider themselves a Christian. Nancy should not worry about the bishop–she should worry about how she is going to explain this away to God when we all stand before him on the final day. 44 million USA abortions and counting up.
Maybe he will just leave San Francisco and the liberals here in their earthly heaven. To paraphrase the old Mexican plaint, “Poor Mexico–so far from God and so close to the United States!” POOR LIBERALS–SO FAR FROM GOD AND SO CLOSE TO HELL!
John Bibb
I don’t think they’re trying to dictate policy. It seems more like they are correcting an outspoken member.
On September 9th, 2008 at 12:14 pm, right4life said:
I think it’s Lenin this time around.
Just for the sake of arguement/wishful thinking, suppose Cindy Sheehan’s candiacy does cost Pelosi her job. In such a case who would had the Democrats in the House and perhaps be its Speaker? Stenny Hoyer? While he is a Democrat, I think he’d be a lot more sensible.
Or used in some degenerate “art”.
Bemused your better than that. It is Pelosi’s choice to remain that church. You like choice don’t you?
It doesn’t matter which denomination one is…if you don’t know when life begins, just ask G-d. You know, the guy that inspired the book that includes “(G-d) knew (you) when you were in your mother’s womb.”
Aw c’mon, no one would say that!
Dang, BuckNutty, you must be a wizard! How’d you do that, and wasn’t that quick?
This is an interesting development; however — while I was on travel, my spouse went to Mass at the Carmel mission — and phoned me to vent that the priest was openly advocating Obama as the “only” choice for the working masses and warned of “perilous” economic times and only Obama has the prescription.
On September 9th, 2008 at 12:33 pm, BemusedLib said:
The thing that really bothers me about my fellow atheists / agnostics on the collectivist side is their snide and arrogant attitudes towards those who are religious.
Not a d*mned one of them will ever acknowledge that the judeo-christian concept of “free will” is why they’re allowed to practice or not as they see fit.
They’ll blab all day long about “the inquisition” – something that happened hundreds & hundreds of years ago – but never once recognize that the one modern country that has allowed non-believers to flourish the most is also the most christian of them all.
But I suppose it’s because most of them have fallen prey to collectivism, which seeks to destroy all viewpoints contrary to itself.
Free-will and collectivism are diametrically opposed, since collectivism is slavery practiced by the State.
How’s this:
snausage commenting about separation of church and state in 5…4…3…
And how would this be a religious institute trying to dictate public policy??? Would this be any different than a company that has a dress code???? Ms. Pelosi has a choice on whether she supports abortion. The Catholic Church has the RIGHT to kick her out if they so choose if they feel she does not live up to their standard of conduct much like a company can fire a person for not living up to their standards.
Well said, M.
While I realize that the odds of Pelosi losing her seat are nil, I hope that the moderates of her party oust her as Speaker of the House. But then, I’ve been waiting seven years for “moderate” muslims to rise up too…
You know, that whole MTV thing reminds me of when I was in Amsterdam years ago, and the Red Light District was full of proper British ladies on walking tours who were delighted to be “shocked” at the nearly naked hookers soliciting from the front windows of their abodes. Neither you nor anyone else on this site cares what some obscure British comedian says on MTV — nobody anywhere does, I suspect — but you like the cheap thrill of witnessing “shocking” behavior. Have fun! But don’t expect your protestations of outrage to be taken seriously.
A very fine line, and once a cleric takes the discussion public, it surely starts to look like they’re pressuring an elected official to make decisions based on church doctrine rather than the United States Constitution.
And, for the record, while I am not particularly religious, I am acquainted with many people who are good, religious individuals and are also pro-choice. The Catholic Church has been around for almost 2000 years and there has been debate within the Church that entire time.
But, as long as we’re letting the Catholic Church determine public policy, not that John Paul II called the Iraq War an “unjust war” and hence immoral. (Or are we back to separating church and state, now?)
Bemused; The church is a private institution. Pelosi has a choice. Kill babies and go to hell, or not kill babies and forfeit her power. No one is making her do anything.
A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE
And here I thought that the Catholic Church would use the Bible as their authority versus using popular vote. It’s no wonder the local church and the rest of society look so much alike.
Bemused Lib… first the issue is a fundamental moral issue not political…. you’re side has always tried through bad law to make it political, but the Catholic Church is simply standing it’s ground and saying that no political entity is going to tell the Church what it’s values are… if I may use a wrong headed and loved phrase from your ilk….. ” separation of church and state?… keep your slimy left wing politics out of my church….. sound harsh? it’s meant to be..
and before someone starts that illegal alien meme here…. the Church’s stand is honoring the borders of countries but treating people humanely … not supporting illegals.
The Catholic church has looked the other way for too long to effectively chide anyone for their un-Christian behavior.
From granting Kennedy’s anulment to their advocating on behalf of illegal immigrants I have little use for the church that I grew up in.
Bemused,
Are you saying that there has been a 2000 year old debate within the church as to when life begins?
And will you show me where the word abortion is written into the US Constitution. Which paragraph??
mojoe
Good for you …enjoy your other church… and leave the Catholic faith to us…. fair enough?
Well said, FilmLadd!
You remind me of another poster – abstractmind. BTW, where is he?
Pelosi likely wouldn’t lose to a Republican in San Francisco, but has she made it through the primary against Cindy Sheehan?
Nice of you to soften the blow on the druggie (British comedian) while taking your shot at me – though I am no more harmed for your attempt.
The point is, you made a comment about, “it’s vitally important that we have religious institutions trying to dictate public policy”. You point is off the chart goofy. Since you understand goofy so well, I made my point in a format you would have no trouble understanding – goofy. You didn’t get it so next time, I will dumb it down a bit for you.
Yes, Pelsoi made it through the primary, but I believe Sheehan is still on the ballot for the general election
#
No, I’m just suggesting that it’s not particularly new or outrageous for there to be serious debate within the Catholic Church, and that it has survived and, sometimes, strengthened itself because of it.
At least no one’s getting burned at the stake this time around.
#49
On September 9th, 2008 at 12:59 pm, PercyJ said:
I don’t have to, the Supreme Court found a quite reasonable right to privacy in the constitution which covers this, some years ago.
O
Ditto. Yo, abstractmind. We miss you.
BEMUSED
A religion by its nature is a dualistic theology. It requires a member to make choices in order to remain in its graces. The government isn’t telling the church what to do. The church is a private club and may add or remove members at it’s will.
Now I wish I had taken the time to look through it but I received a solitication from a black, male Republican who is looking to run up against Pelosi. I cannot recall any of the specifics at this time but I’ll look into it when I get home and report back. Perhaps someone else may have received something similar and can refresh my memory.
BEMUSED;
I changed my religious affiliation when I disagreed with it. Pelosi can do the same
No. What you did was attempt to create an equivalency between the ramblings of an obscure comedian of no known influence beyond his ability to get booked for obscure awards ceremonies and one of the largest and most influential non-government institutions in history –one with a history of significant political involvement not, I think, shared by the British Comedian Cadre.
This part I can agree with. There have been some issues that have gone through some very huge debate within the church. When life begins is not one of them. That issue has been settled for nearly 2000 years – longer if you take into account all Judeo-Christian beliefs.
BTW, Bemused, off topic, were you the one who was in support of network neutrality on another thread?
True. My wife (Catholic) is in the process of doing so right now. But one can also try try to change the church. I don’t find either track illegitimate, though the latter surely contains risks.
this website is a good source of info
I disagree. It is liberal bishops and priests – brought forth by a gross misinterpretation of the “spirit” of the Second Vatican Council that have caused many of the church’s problems since the 1960s. They are the paper tigers, and it is up to faithful Catholics like me to remove them from positions of power in the Church if they do not amend their ways.
That’s not what’s happening here at all. It is the duty of all faithful Catholics to admonish and correct the sinner. Pelosi says she is Catholic…no Catholic in good standing with the Church can support, advocate, or condone something as intrinsically evil as abortion. PERIOD. It is a mortal sin to do what Pelosi does with regard to abortion and there is no wiggle room there.
If Pelosi has a problem, she’s free to leave. OR, she’s welcome to stay just so long as she doesn’t partake of a sacrament that requires one be free of knowledge of having committed a mortal sin (which Pelosi has by supporting abortion).
So, nice try, Bemused Lib, but that’s not what’s happening here.
Good Point Englishqueen. I agree and take back my post.
No – that is an inherently dishonest position. The Church (any church) is set on a series of principles and beliefs. Changing those beliefs to suit the whims of a few dissatisfied congregants not only undermines the church but makes it totally pointless.
The Reformation was an honest movement – although I disagree with it. Every single Protestant/Evangelical breakaway church or congregation is doing the honest thing – finding their own path when they no longer agree with whatever church they break from.
On that thread I was mostly concerned with defending Obama’s anti-equal-time bona fides and clearing up the confusion among those who thought “network neutrality” meant that Fox had to hire Keith Olberman.
NN strikes me a positive thing, and my seriously tech-friendly buddies support it, but I confess that I could not give a cogent argument either pro or con at this point. Five years in the telecom industry have persuaded me that nobody is more in favor of monopoly and monopoly profits than telecom providers, so my default position is to oppose anything that ComCast supports.
No problem. Believe me, I understand. But a little reading into the subject shows the problem is not with the Church – but with those who assumed roles of power while holding the teaching of the Church in deep, deep contempt.
BemusedLib:
Pelosi LIED. She lied about the Church’s position on abortion. She lied by falsely supporting her pro abortion position with pseudo “Church doctrine”. She lied about Church history.
The Church has a right to correct those lies, particularly when presented by an erstwhile “ardent” Catholic.
If you can’t see that, then you’re as blind as an Obamaton can be.
Does Nancy “San Francisco” Pelosi know what a woodshed is? I’ll just say she was taken to the bath house. Same stuff happens there.
Also, this was a break along theological lines and not issues of the day.
Okay. Your rant about the church making policy by contemplating not allowing Pillosee to take communion IS equivalent to my suggesting we should listen to the ranting of a no talent hack telling us who to vote for.
You got me!
I’m not religious, but even I know life begins at conception.
The only religion to which the Left holds any devotion is Our Lady of Self-Indulgence.
I wonder what the Left would think of this idea:
In exchange for the overturning Roe V. Wade, it would become federal law that no state could punish the pregnant woman (only the abortionist could be prosecuted).
I bet they wouldn’t even go for that.
Liberals: “It’s all about me!”
Changing ones religion does nothing toward making abortion right. You can join ABC to XYZ church and still be wrong on when life begins. Abortion is the murder of our young people.
God will be the final judge on this issue.
About time. It is not for the Church to change its tenets to agree with current popular thinking. Wrong is wrong.
You are correct in that it has to do with “technology fairness” and not “political fairness”.
Taking off my partisan hat for a moment, let me say to you that NN is a horrible idea. I’ve been a software engineer for 12 years and believe me it will hinder the growth and advancement of the internet. Basically NN will force internet service providers to provide the same bandwith to a home user as they do for a buisiness. Think about it. Why should a business that depends on the internet for service (like Amazon) be foreced to have the same level of service as a home user that sits and watches YouTube videos all day? If you want to read up on it some go to a techie website like slashdot.org and look into it some. I, for one, do not want ANY politician messing with the internet. They don’t know anything about it and will more than likely end up just messing it all up.
One can be “religious,” and one can be “good,” but if one has a true relationship with God through Jesus Christ, then one understands that “pro-choice” on abortion is not an option. IOW, a person is not truly a Christian [a follower of Christ, by definition], if one advocates the “choice” to murder an unborn child. It’s just as simple as that, and all of the secular humanist equivocating on the issue does not change these facts.
You’re welcome to it sir.
As I hope that I am also welcome to my opinion that the USMC in your handle helped provide me the freedom to post.
I had a housemate once who was an English Queen. This isn’t David is it?
And aren’t English Catholics always the fiercest in defending the church? Still all that guilt about Henry VIII, I guess.
So, what you’re saying is that any Catholic who publicly supports the Constitution of a secular state (and, for the moment, Pelosi’s position does that) is — if that position is in conflict with church doctrine — committing a sin? What if Catholic elected official says: “I believe abortion is a sin, but the Supreme Court has ruled otherwise, and and, while I violently disagree, I understand the importance of a state in which religious institutions yield to secular law and thus I will not stand in the way of women exercising their rights?” What is she supports divorce, or the availability of birth control, even if she does not believe in them herself and encourages others not to use them? If a Jew is elected Mayor, do they have a moral obligation to try to shut down the city from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, even if there’s a football game schedule? Must an elected Muslim aim for prohibition? What about dancing and card playing?
or, should civil society recognize the ability of religions to co-exist, but look askance on their ability to influence the law?
Although, the Reformation started as an attempt to “reform” rather than an effort to break away. And, while one assumes that the Catholic Church is unlikely to change because of the “whims of a few dissatisfied congregants” it does change over time. One might suggest that breaking away rather than working toward reform is an act of cowardice and shows a lack of conviction.
At any rate, you and Nancy can discuss that aspect of the debate. I am more concerned the larger church and state separation issues.
PS MNUSMCDavid,
I didn’t leave the church for another. There is definitely a spiritual void in my life but I haven’t found the right path for me yet.
Look of for Pelosi/Kennedy to pass legislation banning Catholics for hate crimes. She hates to be talked down to.
You are right Right By-The-Sea. You must followw all of the Bible, not just what you want. You can’t pick and choose and still be a disciple of Christ. Murdering unborn babies has never been approved in the Bible.
The ultimate foolishness, in my eyes, is following a religion you don’t believe in.
If you call yourself a Christian then it logically follows that you believe Christian teachings to represent the will of God. To put your very soul at risk for the sake of politics is beyond stupid.
If you don’t believe that the Christian faith speaks on God’s behalf then why on Earth are you paying lip service to it? Why waste your time going to church?
Either you believe it’s God’s word or you don’t. Trying to pick and choose like that defeats the whole purpose of religion.
GP,
I seem to recall you explaining what the impact NN would have on internet users before. Bless your heart but I don’t think Bemused is listening.
I don’t want to sound pretentious, mojoe, but I just wanted to say that I was on a similar path like you about 8 years ago. What I did was read the Bible for myself. I figured if this is what I believed to be God’s word, then I should at least read it and know what it says. I then found a non-denominational church that taught straight from it. It made a huge difference and helped fill that spiritual void.
Some religions will prohibit participation or even voting in government. We all have the right to chose.
Hello 30. I did try to explain it in another thread. Granted, I posted it pretty late and wasn’t suprised that Bemused didn’t see it. I’m hoping he’ll at least give this one a read and do some research on it. He’ll find both sides of the story out there, but in the end it comes down to the question, “Do you really want a politician controlling the internet?”. Thank you for your kind words. I really appreciate it.
and catholics will keep voting for these people.
mojoe,
I gave up on religion long ago and found a personal relationship with Yahweh (God) to be even more fulfilling. I am with guitarplayer on this one.
Amen to that. The Bible and simple, honest, humble prayer are the best ways to get to know God.
Hey MM – Michelle Malkin: Take a lookk at this from Denver – like he did on Pelosi, Archbishop Chaput of Denver has disputed and corrected Joe Biden on abortion.
He published a letter addressing Biden on 9/8/2008 at archden.org
Here are parts of it, link at the bottom of my post:
The PDF is here
I’ve met Archbishop Chaput several times, and corresponded wiht him in email – one of the first things that strikes you is how intelligent he is, his intellect burns liek a light – but what burns brighter is his having truly given himself to God. He is without a doubt a man of God, of faith and conviction. And we are blessed to have an Archbishop like him.
I am — I just don’t want to drag this discussion and further off topic by going back and forth here and now. I promise to read up.
Thanks folks, I appreciate the advice.
Any time for a fellow seeker!
Thanks, Bemused. Good luck in your research. I look forward to discussing with you in the future.
No problem, mojoe. Just remember to seek and you will find.
Is this a question about religious knowledge or political knowledge? Pelosi seems tragically deficient in both areas…religiously, she can be deprived of the church’s blessings…politically, with her at the helm, she will deprive us of God’s blessings.
It appears that her religious beliefs are as corruptable as are her politics. Even worse, SHE is the one that the Democrat Party majority selected as the one best able to lead them in the House.
Leadership? Ethics? Honesty? “Spirit of Bi-Partisanship?” These seem to be the qualities most absent from the Democrat Party, so maybe she is the person most qualified to lead them!
Strange you should mention that! Try this link, read the book, and have your eyes opened.
Hitler and Lenin are the same. See the link above.