The Mother of All Bailouts = The Death of Fiscal Conservatism
Scroll for updates…10:54am Eastern Bush speaking now…bailout will be “grease for the gears”… “we expect this money will eventually be paid back”…HA-HA-HA…
Bush Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson just wrapped up his press conference announcing the Mother of All Bailouts. He said a “bold” approach was needed to achieve “stability” in the market.
Let me translate that.
“Bold” = Massively massive, taxpayer-funded rescue.
“Stability” = Privatizing profits and socializing losses on a scale we have never seen before in our lifetimes.
I have had it with Pollyanna conservatives who continue to parrot the “fundamentals of the market are great!” line.
The fundamentals of the market suck. The fundamentals of capitalism have been sabotaged.
Yes, yes, crony Democrats are to blame for much of how we got here. You don’t need to recite all the talking points back to me. I’ve been writing about the Fannie/Freddie debacle for years.
But it is September 19, 2008. And this is a Republican White House presiding over the Mother of All Bailouts. Every step along the way since stimuluspalooza began last summer, we’ve heard that every bailout step was just a one-off. Each step was supposed to calm the markets. Each new government intervention and allocation of taxpayer dollars was supposed to achieve “stability.” Each new package of goodies rewarding irresponsible behavior and bad financial decisions was supposed to prevent new ones.
None did. And now, here we are.
This is your Bush legacy — not Pelosi’s, not Reid’s, not Obama’s: A ginormous bailout of every last, failing, panicked financial institution’s illiquid assets that may reach into the trillions — TRILLIONS – when all is said and done.
Reader John in Venice, CA e-mails: “Going forward there is no debate a conservative can win when pitted against a liberal wanting to spend money on social programs. What would the argument be against spending money on terrible social programs? Government money does not work? Conservatives who are supporting this welfare bailout are no different than Maxine Waters or Barbara Boxer. We have lost. Conservatism has absolutely no more moral high ground to speak from.”
Fiscal conservatism has been on life support for quite some time. Bush/Paulson pulled the plug permanently today.
***
I mentioned the other day that both presidential candidates from the Evil Party and the Stupid Party support bailing out the automakers next.
Here’s more:
The auto industry and Wall Street took center stage in the presidential race Wednesday when Republican John McCain, after touring a suburban Detroit auto plant, declared in his strongest language so far that he will fight for government loans to help the U.S. auto industry retool.
Democrat Barack Obama’s campaign retorted that he’s late to the game.
McCain made an unscheduled stop at General Motors Corp.’s Orion assembly plant in the morning before joining his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, for a town hall meeting in Grand Rapids.
He told a crowd of supporters in downtown Grand Rapids that the economy can be fixed.
“I reject the doom and gloom that says our nation is in decline, because our best days are ahead of us. We will restore America, we will restore this economy,” McCain said.
At the GM plant, McCain spoke to about 100 workers after a short tour.
“I’m here to send a message to Washington and Wall Street: We are not going to leave the workers here in Michigan hung out to dry while we give billions in taxpayer dollars to Wall Street,” McCain said. “It is time to get our auto industry back on its feet. It’s time for a new generation of cars and for loans to build the facilities that will make them.”
McCain’s support of the auto industry on Wednesday contrasts with his position last month when he visited the GM Tech Center in Warren and said he wasn’t inclined to support loans for the auto industry.
McCain, who also did not vote on the energy bill creating the loan program in December 2007, said then through his campaign that his proposals — a $5,000 tax credit for consumers to buy more efficient models and a $300-million prize for battery technology — would accomplish the same goals as the loan program.
Auto industry officials said they believed that without McCain’s support, the funding would get labeled a Democratic ploy. Michigan’s Republican lawmakers, especially U.S. Rep. Fred Upton, are credited with convincing McCain to back the loans.
Obama has backed up to $50 billion in loans for automakers.
***
Here’s Jim Pethokoukis’s take.
Hans Bader at OpenMarket.org: Trillion Dollar Bailout Will Lead to Future Bubbles. Read it all.
***
Update 10:54am Eastern: Bush speaking. He says the bailout will be “grease for the gears”…”we expect this money will eventually be paid back”…HA-HA-HA.
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wowza MM’s site has been taken over by obama fleasnmaggots guess they drank the hopenhchange he is offering.
how cute
I think you pretty well nailed it, MM.
But it’ll be the Bush Legacy by perception only. Reforms by the whitehouse & the republican congress were attempted only to be thwarted by the ‘line my pockets’ democrats – especially during the last two ‘do-nothing’ years by 9% nancy & her myrmidons.
In hind site, should have GW been more bully in the pulpit and less Calvin Coolidge?
All of you need to watch the interview Bill Clinton just gave, and listen carefully to his answers concerning why the financial market is in trouble. I don’t like the man, but dammit if he isn’t right on the mark about this.
All of the investment money went into real estate investments because that was the ONLY game in town which was making money! Our industrial base has been decimated because of companies sending their jobs overseas. If there’s no MFG jobs, then middle management gets cut to the bone. Housing and commercial real estate was THE ONLY GAME, and it’s fueled an artificial boom like what Japan saw in the 1990s. Banks in Japan though that, because real estate is limited and fixed (no one’s making more land) that it’s value would ALWAYS go up. Unfortunately, there’s a point at which people cannot pay more for something, and when properties suddenly STOPPED selling, during the early 90s recession, tons of investment money was lost when the properties dropped in value ’til they reached a point where someone WOULD buy it. We’re facing the same thing here today. Sure, people WANTED to buy Lehman Brothers, but no one was willing to PAY what it would have taken to satisfy their debt.
It’s like buying a new car, and being immediately upside-down in the loan. You CAN sell the car immediately, but only for a loss. If you needed money immediately, selling the car won’t help you because, upon the sale, you’ll owe MORE money than you needed in the first place (money needed plus loss from car sale). This is what, in small measure, these banks and investment firms are facing.
The scary thing is the RETAIL banks have invested YOUR savings into the commerical and mortgage banks! Think about that for a minute… Your savings has been used as leverage to obtain loans far in excess of the dollar value of the investments purchased. If they bought stock in a now-dropping stock market mutual fund (because the entire market has dropped) they could easily go broke if/when the market drops. If they bought stock in Merril Lynch, or Lehman Bros, or AIG, that money is already LOST, and will have to be carried on the books of our retail banks as a LOSS. If they’re over-leveraged at the same 30-to-1 proportions that Lehman Bros was on their investment loans, then the banks will HAVE to be re-capitalized by someone. I’ve got news for ya, other banks ain’t gonna lend them money! They’ve all just realized they’re in the SAME shape!
That money must come from the Federal Government, and that’s just the way it’s going to have to be. If Pres. Bush doesn’t do this, his legacy will not be the nationalization of the banking system, it’ll be the complete and utter destruction of Wall Street and our retail banking industry. It won’t matter who made millions, there won’t be any jobs for you and me, let alone banking CEOS and CFOs!
THAT is why ya’ll just need to shut your yaps about this stupid partisan bickering for once! Yes, it’s going to take a LOT of money. A whole heaping pile of money, more than any country has ever had to lay out in the history of the world but… we are the ONLY country in a position to do it. We couldn’t do it in 1929. Our GDP wasn’t great enough, and the leveraging (buying on margin in the stock market) was even crazier than now.
If we can’t do it, our financial market will fail, and with it, nearly all personal wealth in this county today…
Where do I sign up for my bail out?
please go back to school.
do some research.
let it burn.
You want school?
Take out you pay check. Notice the taxes taken out of your pay for social security. Times that tax by 45 years 52 times a year. That is only one of the payments that we are still paying for the last depression. Now if you want another 15% of wages taken during this depression for the rest of your life then by all means suck it up.
And that is only one example. Want more school? The last depression gave us FDIC. This means no matter what happens to wall street when banks fail the taxpayers are responsible for all the trillions in the banks. Do you understand now? If the government does nothing we go into a depression and have massive bank failures which the government will be responsible for EVERY deposit in the nation. We will pay one way or the other. If this is allowed to go to its final state all banks will fail. And we the taxpayers would still be on the hook because of FDIC. At the end game not only will we have to pay for the deposits, we would have the added expense of feeding the unemployed, housing the homeless, making make work jobs to avoid social unrest etc.
How’s that for school for you?
The suck it up crowd has no idea what they are talking about and their advice is the worse thing that we could do.
Rotary,
how can Bil be wrong about it? it was his policies and his people that created
it all…. do you truly not GET that?
what the hell is your point?
Back to my medical analogy. This is triage. You cannot solve all the problems right now so:
1. As unseen says, solve the immediate problem – avert economic disaster.
2, Keep Obama out of office so that the attempted long-term solution will not be socialism.
3. Elect as many conservatives as possible in November. (McCain/Palin is the closest we have and it is foolish to think that not voting or a vote for a third-party will send a message to Washington and fix things.)
4. Keep the pressure on McCain/Palin and the legislators to clean up the mess in a proper fiscally conservative manner.
Step 1 has already taken place. We need focus on steps 2,3 and 4.
Bansharia, offering your ridiculous partisan crap as any sort of commentary on this problem is asinine. You’re a sheep, most likely fed daily from the trough of propaganda spewed from party elitists. You’re being used, but instead of questioning why your ass hurts so badly, you simply ask for more. As long as you have your boogeyman to point and scream at, it doesn’t matter how little “grease” they use for your “gears”, you’ll gladly take it, then thank them afterward.
Here’s the secret: We’re all being played – pitted against the evil left and vice-versa while the government gets bigger and steals everything we’ve worked for. And the worst part, it’s going to happen no matter what letter comes after your politician’s name.
Is this true?
You’ve got that right. The fundamentals of this market are so bad that the government has to give the markets a trillion dollars just to keep them afloat. If the economy were good, I don’t think that the government would have to do this.
The market is being artificially propped up here. It will end badly. This only delays the inevitable. . . and it continues to destroy the value of the dollar. Hello high oil prices with a low dollar.
Whoops obama just voted ” I got no damn clue again” he will get back to America when he is done fund raising and trying to flame more hatred.
Whoops obama just voted ” I got no damn clue again” he will get back to America when he is done fund raising and trying to flame more hatred.
I’m probably going to hack off a lot of people and get called a troll for making this line of logic, but please consider it. I am no troll. I’ll admit, I’m no economist, either, although I did make an A+ in my microeconomics course in college. (That’s about like saying that I’m qualified because I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night…)
Anyway, here goes…
Government is of, by, and for the people, right? I believe, as a conservative, in that statement and, just as importantly, in the order in which it makes its prepositions. We get caught up in the third one without realizing that, in some rare instances, the first two, “of” and “buy,” require an expenditure on “for.” We almost all agree on that thought when it comes to military spending, border security, etc. for instance.
It would follow, then, that if government is controlled by fools, and those fools then mandate foolish ideas, those ideas are of, by, and for the people, again, in that order. That’s a heavy statement that should make anyone think twice about who they are electing.
Here goes as to how that applies to this debacle… Bill Clinton advocated and signed the law changes which required mortgage lenders to make financing available to subprime candidates. Congress went along with the idea. Government is thereby responsible. The government, though, is of, by, and for the people who elected it. Furthermore, the people did nothing significant back in the 1990s to cry foul over this situation. Had we raised hell over this issue and then, if necessary, primaried or otherwise beat in the next election cycle everybody who didn’t listen and act, we wouldn’t be stuck where we are today.
President Bush lightly advocated doing something about Fannie and Freddie in 2003. Congress did nothing, and Bush didn’t pursue the matter. The people did not pay attention in 2003 to demand the change, either. Had we done something in 2003, matters wouldn’t have been as good as had we stopped this mess in its tracks in the 1990s, but we still wouldn’t be saddled with today’s mess.
More people called for changes in 2006. Again, nothing happened, and the people didn’t demand action loudly enough to make a difference.
Government tends to move quickly in any direction right or wrong only when people shout from the rooftops, and even then the motion can be painstakingly slow. In the end, though, it is the people who are chartered to do something about it if they don’t like the direction or speed of their government (i.e. throw the bums out!).
We, the people, have done none of these things, and now we are suffering big time because of it. People are losing their retirements, their wealth, and their jobs because these companies who we, the people required to make and/or trade bad loans are now going broke because of them.
At the end of this train of logic, it sucks, and it’s a bitter pill to take, but I’m afraid that we the people have a moral obligation to assume this bad debt. We tacitly approved it by electing and reelecting the people who dreamed it up. We are culpable for putting fools in charge and then not insisting that they correct their mistakes.
I say that, if anything, fiscal conservatism died many years before today. Now what we are experiencing is just the beginning of the rotting of its exposed corpse.
You’re absolutely right. Too bad none of our elected officials are willing to walk over to the Supreme Court and ask for an injunction. (Yes, I know there’s some emergency clause, but last time I checked, laws can be overturned on constitutional grounds.)
The bankers are taking our money away and giving it to their cronies. It’s that freaking simple.
And here we are, crabbing about it on the internet.
I don’t care who wins any more. Both parties are in collusion. I am voting third party this year, because the GOP has literally sold me and my assets to corporate america.
well whiners about the market handle this reality: while you are busy saying po po pitiful me there is a helluva lot of $ being made. better you vote for obama and fist chuck your way to wealth.
Uh, unseen…you have confused the financial/investment banking sector with the commercial banking sector (fdic, etc).
Two different animals although slightly related, but in vastly different states of health. Commercial banking is very sound along with the fundamentals of this economy – exports; service; R&D; employment (yes 6% is normal).
Obama & his minions need to get schooled.
It’s the stupid people who got us into this mess by acting like K & Wall street are Vegas and it’s the stupid people who should pay and/or go to jail over this malfeasance.
I say again. When is a conservative going to grow a backbone and make the country decide whether this is a Socialist country or not?
I’m sick of the government thinking they can “control the economy”.
Take your stinking paws off the economy, you damn, dirty bureaucrats!
Even if we were to allow this to go on, the first step should be to recall all of the bonuses, etc. that were paid to those who caused the situations. This includes the so-called “golden parachutes”. Some may say that it isn’t right, however our bailing them out of their mess isn’t right in my book.
Isn’t it great how politicians keep passing the buck to the next generation?
Maybe if more people actually had kids and cared about them… with stable families, we would all care enough about the world our children were going to be growing up in to actually quit settling for a quick fix.
This isn’t about market stability. It’s about what kind of country you want to live in. Social policies and economic policies are tied together….
This is bull—- that America has to shoulder these giants… that we’re screwed either way. We either lose money out of our retirement accounts, or we pay it in taxes and inflation.
And these policies aren’t going away until people get serious about having a principled economy that DOESN’T feel bad every time people have to suffer… Suffering is going to happen. It can be good for people and societies. It makes people tough.
People growing up in the Great Depression were tough. Now we’ve ensured that we’ll have a nation of soft-bellied whiners who expect a hand-out whenever things go wrong, for at least another generation… this is ridiculous…
.
Obama will be fisting us alright. Is this your lame attempt at doing what you Master commanded and start yelling in our face.
I seem to recall him blasting Romney for the same thing.
This is the letter I wrote to my Senators and Congresswoman lastnight — before this all broke. Forgive the run on sentences and bad grammar, I was hot when I wrote it.
Michelle, You are quite wrong. The economy is just fine. The problem is that we don’t allow people — or companies — to fail. Until a GM, Ford, AIG, or some other big company fails, and the gov stays out of the way; we are doomed to mediocrity.
It’s the government — not the economy — that is the problem.
All the Bear Flag League folks said we had to vote for Arnold because he like us and could get elected. He has been worse than Gray Davis. The GOP told us that we had to vote for Bush, because he was on our team and he was like us; he has been a catastrophe economically. Now comes Juan McAmnesty and his appeasers who have the same play book as Arnold, and GWB. Seems to me the only difference between McCan’t and Obamanation is the latter at least stands for something, the former is a go-along-to-get-along sheep. Just like Bush and Arnold, as far as I can tell.
No one who lives in America is “disadvantaged,” nor is anyone here really in poverty other than by choice. It’s the government, stupid.
I am beginning to think that Obama getting elected would be best for our country. He and the liberals would move quickly to nationalize the economy, raise taxes that will kill jobs, and send it into a tail spin so deep that it would cause Americans to ‘grab the pitchforks.’ Then he would be kicked out of office as was Carter. Maybe this time the GOP won’t elect dopes like Gingrich, Graham, Dole (either), Issa, McCain, Bailey-Hutchinson, Stephens — just to name a few — and we can really fix the country.
Until the IRS is gutted and personal responsibilty are a requirement; we are screwed.
Honestly, when was the last time you could actually cite “fiscal conservatism” in practice? I think it’s a concept and one that has never been put into practice. Our Federal government continues to expand its power and reach by the moment. It apparently doesn’t matter who is in control of Congress because the ship continues its course towards more and more spending and power.
I know this is a stupid question, but what about the people who received loans from these institutions to buy a home. Were they foreclosed upon and if so, who owns the homes? If not, did they just get a mortgage free house?
locomotivebreath1901
If you think the two are not related let the bank customers of Indymac, Countrywide bank and the others know.
We have at least 1,000 banks on deathwatch by the FED. All these banks are FDIC insured. The FDIC is running out of money because of all banks they have had to bail out over the last year. Citibank the biggest bank in the USA is close to insolvency. All of Citi’s deposits are FDIC insures. Commercial banking is not strong.
ok so you want the government to spend its way into a global economic collapse so we can put on a pretty facade for 1,2,5,10 years???
give me a break….choices come with consequences…i know we are not supposed to keep score at little leauge games and 2+2=5 but this is the real world.
bailouts overstep the boundaries set in the constitution…and i won’t ever support that….ever.
if you feel that giving up your liberty for a perceived financial security go ahead.
let it burn.
#11 khan said:
Are you the same moron who voted for Perot in ‘92 because “the budget needed to be balanced, the treasury needed to be refilled, the public debt needed to be reduced and the arrogance of public officials needed to be controlled,” but ultimately ended up giving me eight years of Clinton, Gorelick, Berger, Clarke, Albright, Holbrooke and dozens of murdered friends and family in downtown Manhattan?
If you aren’t that moron, my sincerest apologies. If you are…thanks, Einstein. I don’t know how I can ever possibly pay you back.
I meant “is a requirement.”
No doubt, this will keep happening over and over again. No one learns anything, on to the next bubble.
We’re an in election year and when people are panicking over whether their bank is going belly-up tomorrow or if their retirement $ is about to go up in smoke, even if it’s not the case, the pols will do whatever is expedient today in order to get elected and make people feel better. I see this as the market righting itself after too many shady and very risky investments, but the media keeps blaring, “OMGGreatDepressionII!” So there’s pressure to do something now.
I’ve come to believe that people will surrender their liberty not out of fear of an external security threat like terrorism but out of fear of any kind of adversity. We want the rewards of risk without any possible consequences. We want the government to guarantee jobs, to guarantee a house, to guarantee a pricey college education, to guarantee we’ll never get sick and if we do, we get the best care money can buy but with somebody else paying for it. It’s lunacy.
There is such a thing as a contolled economy. It is what they had in the USSR. It is the opposite of a free economy. There is a mixed economy in between, where we have been for decades. We are now seeing, IMHO, the slide towards a Marxist controlled economy.
e.koenig
again the only thing you are advocating is full socialism. By letting it burn like they did in 1929 we got quasi-socialism. Let it burn again and we will have full socialism.
#11 khan said:
Are you the same genius who voted for Perot in ‘92 because “the budget needed to be balanced, the treasury needed to be refilled, the public debt needed to be reduced and the arrogance of public officials needed to be controlled,” but ultimately ended up giving me eight years of Clinton, Gorelick, Berger, Clarke, Albright, Holbrooke and dozens of murdered friends and family in downtown Manhattan?
If you aren’t that genius, my sincerest apologies. If you are…thanks, Einstein. I don’t know how I can ever possibly pay you back.
not ALL of the deposits are insured.
as for the “deathwatch” … *yawn* it’s overrated.
I hate regulation, but if I am insuring your company, you will run it the way I tell you to run it. Time to shorten the leash or dump the FDIC. I like the latter.
Wrong, just ask the black marketeers who are now running the country.
Well, no kidding, and it turned out to be a total disaster. Where is the USSR today? I guess I should’ve added, “…and succeed.” to my comment. Did you even bother to read the rest of my comment? We need a Reagan-esque leader to define what Socialism, Communism, and Capitalism is to the country, give examples, and explain why all these bailouts are a terrible idea.
Obama isn’t the answer, but I do agree with you – there is a lot of money being made right now.
In grade school, I remember learning that the post war German government printed bills only on one side to save time.
Now, with electronic banking Bernacke doesn’t need to bother worring about the printing presses keeping up.
I also remember seeing pictures of Germans literally burning their currency because wood was too expensive in comparison, as a result of the hyperinflation that occurred as a direct result of the infusion of all that cash.
The Fed is cranking cash into the system at an obscene rate. Simple law of supply and value. Supply goes up, value goes down. All that money in your mattress is going to take a huge hit, but the people on top will have already profited, because they got their cash before the dilution effect of the increased supply is realized.
We’re screwed ‘08. I’m going to sharpen my ax, because I’m pretty sure a trip to the ATM won’t be worth the gas it takes to get there to withdraw fuel for the fire.
Our problems are stemming from our Keynsian view of the economy. It creates windmills for the governments to knock down.
An alternative is the Austrian school, which finds calculations like CPI and GDP absurd.
Here is a good article on the GDP:
http://mises.org/story/770
So to stave off the possibility of socialism in the wake of letting the market take its course, we need socialism to save the free market?
Hey everyone, it’s Karl Marx. Welcome, Karl. How’s Obama these days? You and his Ivy-League buds washing the red flags and Socialist Slogans of yore? I bet you can’t wait to get ahold of this economy and show us what you did wrong, again.
You are a badass my friend, more people need to understand that these boom/bust cycles are caused by our privately controlled, unaccountable central bank.
What cheeses me off is that it is so obvious that fiscal conservatism is the way to go; most “Joe Sixpacks” on the street would think so as well. But for years we have been given the “choice” of electing people from the Evil Party or the Stupid Party (as Michelle so aptly put it) and not enough of them were serious about wanting to control spending and taxes.
I used to think that Bush was one of those leaders who would be judged more kindly by future historians than by today’s media. Now I don’t think so; Bush could well be the next Herbert Hoover.
Yes I did and wasn’t contradicting you, I was in agreement. Sorry.
LOL!, I think of myself as a radical capitalist. I see each individual as a “Company of One” responsible for his own business decisions. I guess I like this site because I see MM as a Company of One.
Large Corporations are at odds with citizens of any country. What is good for them may not be good for those citizens. That is the problem of Globalism. Only “Companies of One” can claim to be “WE THE PEOPLE… ” and can integrate the best interest of the country with their own best interest.
The day will come when Corporations are no longer needed.
The crash of ‘29 and subsequent depression was caused by the government.
Do we as people have any legal recourse?
Can the average man sue our federal government?
Does the Potus/Congress have the Constitutional authority to do these tax payer funded bailouts?
No problem, I’m glad we agree. Like you, I think we’re fast approaching a Marxist controlled economy. I think the slide you’re referring to just got pulled out from under us, and now we’re in a straight free fall towards it. Get your parachute ready.
And people wonder why I’m not voting for either Obama or McCain? Wasn’t Bush also the “lesser of two evils”? Well, you see what you get when you vote for the lesser: a negative outcome.
Instead of taking the money that we earned ourselves and giving it to a failing industry to “retool”, why don’t we make them invest some of their own capital and retool themselves? Whatever happened to entrepreneurial initiative? I have no problems buying American cars, thereby supporting the “American auto worker”, but I won’t do it if they don’t make a better product than the other guy.
What’s next? Companies pleading to the government for money to update their business software?
Bottom line: Nowhere in the Constitution does it state that the government is an insurance policy or anything along those lines.
Bingo. And the government “help” took what should have been a simple 3 month correction and turned it into a 10 year travesty.
I agree. If McCain gets elected, then a few things will happen: (1) Palin will be ineffective as the VP. She’ll have no real power. For the rest of her career, she’ll be known as “one of that guy’s people.” McCain’s riding her coat tails into the Oval Office, nothing more. (2) McCain’s democratic policies will fail the country (e.g. amnesty, judges, etc.) (3) McCain will have full support of the democratic congress to dig his own grave. (4) McCain and the GOP will take all of the blame. (5) The GOP will lose more seats in Congress in 2010 and 2012. (6) Obama (or Hillary) will get elected in 2012.
Voting for McCain is merely delaying the inevitable.
Its time for the government to hold the corporate executives responsible for the mess they got us in to. They signed themselves up for the big payouts and the Golden Parachutes contingent on the work that they did.
Obviously they work was faulty, negligent, shoddy, etc, so they should all be held accountable to the American taxpayers not just to the corporate shareholders. If they kept their problems within the confines of the corporate system then I dont have a problem with what they pay themsleves.
But now they are impacting MY time and MY life and MY family.
Take ALL of the money they got as Executives and place it into an escrow account until the debts to the American taxpayers have been repaid in full.
Then we need to turn on the government officials and their estates for our repayment also.
All of them owe us because we are definitely not getting our money’s worth. (oh wait… yes we are, its all worthless….)
I was hoping that McCan’t would serve one-term and get out. This would clear the way for Palin.
I think it might be best if they lose, and she runs against the Obamanation — who will set back race relations 100 years, and the economy at least 50 years — in 2012.
Ironic that is might be best for the GOP to fail — as AIG should have — this year, so we can win the war — or at least most of the battles — in 2012.
It’s depressing to think of all the years that are wasted by these RINOs who sheep-up to the liberals. You know the libs are laughing their asses off.
“Useful Idiots” is the phrase I believe.
Ah, so socialism is okay when it benefits the wealthy but when it could help poor people (social welfare, universal healthcare), it’s not okay?
Republicans are such a mess.
No, dummy; it’s not. Socialism IS NEVER OK as far as we are concerned.
Banks however are currently insured by us, so they owe us an explanation. It’s time to put Banks on a short lease, like I said.
“When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin
It’s a sad day in America and it could have been prevented if “some” in corporate America had a little more self-restraint and a lot less greed in their souls. Both political parties are responsible for this mess and what angers me is that neither wants to take responsibility for this “crisis.” I love how Obummer likes to blame McCain for the state of the economy but where the hell was he when the train went off the rails? He’s hardly spent any time in Washington and doesn’t want to be blamed because he’s “new to the scene.”
Oh, that’s right, he’s been campaigning for office since he got elected to the Senate.
Where was Obummer when they needed someone to call out the FM’s about their entrenched corruption and corporate cronyism with folks like Obummer? Oh, that’s right, McCain called them out in 2005 while Obummer decided to hire some of the egregious CEO’s of the FM’S as economic advisors.
Where was Obummer’s leadership when there needs to be an “actual” discussion of the economy? Oh, that’s right…. he’ll come out with a plan “later” while taking credit for the trust idea that will take on all the bad debt from the companies in trouble. Unfortunately, that idea was both McCain’s and Paulson’s.
Either way… the American taxpayer will be hit and the freebers in this country who are just as guilty of this crisis…. you know the ones- who took on the mortgages they couldn’t afford, who lied about their income, and who didn’t need to put down an income, or job to qualify for a house… these are the people who should have known better.
No one wants to take responsibility for their decisions anymore. Not the government. Not the citizens. And especially not the presidential candidates.
What a sad state this country is in.
Give me free stuff versus responsibility.
Responsibility will lose every time.
Wait until you see the Mother of all Illegal Immigration coming in the next administration. Get your blood pressure medicine now…
I have to wonder, at what point is a revolution justified?
I have a feeling that George Soros has his hand in this mess. It would not be the first time that Mr. Soros and his partners in Quantum Group have short sold stocks and currency in an attempt to undermind governments and make billions of dollars in the process.
On June 2, 1992 he was able to devalue the Italian Lira by 40% and walk away with $282 million dollars. That was just a warm up. On August 16, 1992 he “Broke the Bank of England” by dumping $10 billion dollars worth of British Pounds, and made $1 billion dollars over night. Then he went after the Asian markets in Feb. 1997 and walked away with $800 million in his pocket.
By pushing the U.S. markets over the cliff he will help his puppet Obama get elected and made millions for his effort. His ultimate goal is to force us to an american version of the Euro. It worked for him in the 1990’s when they switched from the European Rate Mechanism (ERM) to the Maastricht Treaty which created the Euro. IMHO.
Oh, God, 30, I wish this was true. Since I was 16 and my first job was a babysitter I’ve been saving my money. I have money in my investments that was “supposed” to grow in a fair and transparent market. Not one based on a Ponzi scheme.
I wish Americans were as wise about the poliitical process and their role in the electorate as they’re supposed to be. A lot of Americans want a free ride in life and have no common sense. People are more concerned about electing the “first black president” than a real leader that will tackle these types of problems.
Do you think that many in the black community will see the light? I’d be interested in your insight.
One more thing. The US (yeah right) should sue all those guys (and Jamie Gorelick the killer) for the money they looted, make them sell their houses, and give them a FEMA trailor which they can park on OJ’s front lawn.
Are you sure you’re a Chef?
Another Bush 43 legacy: the declining dollar (The US dollar has lost its golden luster: lost ca 1/3 of its value against most foreign currencies: Euro, Swiss Franc, Pound Sterling…). This is good for European tourists, bad for American tourists.
I think Bush misspoke. Instead of “grease” he meant to say “K-Y Jelly”.
I guess that makes us the “gears”
Yeah, at Smith & Wollensky, but I read alot.
Errah, Reportedly there is 600 trillion of derivatives worldwide. I don’t believe the treasury can cover this bet even with electronic funds transfer. I would apppreciate it if someone with a financial background could verify this set of statements, errah.
dandapani and alohaguy, truer words were never spoken. the responsible of this country have always been the group our government has MADE liable for the masses. employers have to collect taxes and get them to the government. employers have to fund social security and unemployment and disability entitlements, while the masses criticise those greedy rich guys. the savers put their money in 401k plans and banks and the get rich quick crowd used those assets to socially engineer the poor into homes they can’t afford, and when the fit hits the shan, it is the TAXPAYERS (that’s 60% of the populace) who must once again bailout the other 40%. will anyone offer jobs to these people after they drive this group of employers out of business? the govmnt will be the only employer, and welcome to france.
Fiscal conservatism has been dead since at least the FDR administration.
Please watch this clip. It’s toooo funny
you might want to take a look back on history and examine hoover and his economic policies.
the new deal programs failed to resurect the us economy and have only pushed us closer to a super depression with just this year $614 billion in bailouts and today from the fed now promising “hundreds of billions” more.
hopefully we learn the second time around.
It’s not the death of fiscal conservatism: it’s an illustration of its necessity.
Anybody making the connection between financial market failures, economic crises, and Al Qaeda’s goal of attacking us economically, and financially, as well as militarily.
Osama stated that himself and the targets he chose on 9-11 reflect that philosophy. His goal of destroying the west doesn’t have to be through car bombs. He can attack markets, economies, and institutions as well.
Perhaps thats why we think we haven’t been attacked since 9-11,he is attacking us differently. Is he outsmarting us? Are we falling into his grand trap?
Here’s my take:
My immediate family will all vote for Obama. They don’t follow elections like we do and as far as Obama’s policies go and their impact… they will treat him like they treat any other Democrat that’s come down the pike – they will vote for him and will do with a smile.
I’ve had discussions with my eldest sister about it. She knows where I stand and she also knows that I think she is a fool for being so irresponsible with her vote. So, the topic doesn’t come up anymore.
On a macro level – no, they won’t see the light. They’d have to care first. And unfortunately, all they care about is who is going to keep the welfare checks coming.
What Bill Cosby is trying to accomplish is commendable. He’s taking on the greater task of getting people to change they way they run their lives; telling them the importance of staying in school, making babies they can’t take care of and changing their lot in life by making the right decisions. Liberals give lip service to it but he’s out their trying to make a difference. While, liberal politicians want to keep these people in their poverty.
The “light” when come on when people in the black community invest in themselves and their future… that’s when the true change comes. Sitting around waiting for governement assistance, not so much. So, if Bill can pull it off what a wonderful thing that would be.
/rant
I disagree. Those who were supposed to support fiscal conservatism are dead. The (R) party pulled the plug. I would argue though that it’s not permanent. There will be a revolution and fiscal conservatism will come back. Socialistic societies do not survive.
Basic God given “laws” of the way things work – there is no such thing as a free lunch – has not been superseded. Laws of supply and demand still work and are as true today as they were when discovered. Only libs think they can be smarter than the laws of the universe.
Not sure about Al Qaeda’s goal. I was in Dubai and Qatar this Summer. You won’t believe how fast the economies of Muslim Arab Gulf states are booming. Incredible. Dubai has the only 7-star hotel in the world: Burj Al Arab (Arab Tower).
Those who would vote for socialism-lite need a full dose to cure them of their delusions.
McCain is no better than Obama.
Vote third party.
Maybe then we can clean out the RINO’s from the RNC.
Yes… you nailed it Michelle.. Bush has to take a lot of responsibility for this… he has overstretched the empire and no empire stays around forever..
Some are saying this is the end of Anglo-Saxon Capitalism….far more regulation in the future – especially in the USA…
Michael Reagan’s take on this debacle… naming names, $$ amounts and which Dim-o-craps were behind the molestation of Fannie and Freddie. Even points out the Audacity of Blame by Barry…attempting to shift the root cause on to McCain.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28611
I’ve gone through all of the posts and saw the partisan bickering on both sides.
Even a few muttered calls for a revolution.
The gulf between the government and the people is too wide to bridge at this point. People can point to the rising up against amnesty and argue that they can affect governmental policies but they only delayed it’s implementation at best.
I believe that Senator Obama will be elected and the government will continue to muddle along and continue to service the rich, well-connected, and powerful.
As for me?…..I’m off to Wal-Mart to pick up some practice ammo….then my daughter and I will hit the range……
Why should my hard-earned dollars support people who can’t get off their ass and help themselves? Why am I responsible for people who can’t be more successful than working low-income jobs at McDonald’s or Burger King? Why is it government’s job to provide “social welfare” or provide “universal healthcare? How is any of that constitutional?
Unfortunately, if the government had not intervened these poor, poor people would be even worse off then they are now and maybe even more middle class folks would be “poor.” Poor is a relative term since poverty is subsidized by the federal government through things like WIC and welfare.
I’m getting sick of people like you, Omu, saying I need to contribute more of my own money to people who don’t mind taking it from me. You’ve gotta lot of nerve, as do people like Biden, to lecture ANYBODY about people’s patriotic duty to give more of their money to a dysfunctional government.
Democrats are such a mess. They’re liars, they’re crooks, and they’re socialists. The Republicans are no better.
Fixed.
the new deal programs failed to resurect the us economy and have only pushed us closer to a super depression with just this year $614 billion in bailouts and today from the fed now promising “hundreds of billions” more.
hopefully we learn the second time around.
hmmmm no. Over the last 409 years we have moved from a 2nd world economy to a 1st world economy. We have defeated poverty where our poor are overfed not starving. We have the highest GDP in the world, Are economy of 300million is 4 times as big as an economy with 1.5 trillion people. We have as a people the greatest standard of living in world history, our life expectancy continues to increase, we have conquered many dieases that have been the scourge of the world, we have the best transportation system in the world and all that is at stake if we let it burn.
I have thought for a while that McCain and Hillary are influenced by the Chinese Communists, while Obama represents the Russian Communists.
There was civil war within the Democrat[ic Socialist] Party when Hillary (China) and Obama (Russia) were competing for the nomination. The Russians won and the Chinese lost.
The Chinese back-up QB is McCain. The only reason McCain picked Palin is that the delegates from 5 of the states that Mike Huckabee won threatened to walk out of the convention if McCain picked Lieberman. McCain was forced to pick a conservative VP in order to prevent a mutiny at the convention. If you like having Sarah Palin as VP, thank Mike Huckabee…he deserves your appreciation.
The Russian Communists are trying to trigger a Great Depression in the hopes that it will result in the election of their candidate (Obama).
The Chinese Communists are trying to prevent a Great Depression in the hopes that it will result in the election of their preferred candidate (McCain).
Unfortunately, emjem24, you are overlooking the fact that, as far as taxes go, you don’t have a choice…
Neither do you have one in the voting booth. The Democratic and Republican parties are both representatives of the same plutocracy.
I’m not trying to bring up the old, hoary class warfare card here….
That war is over….and they won…
#178….
Sorry, just can’t buy into the “rah…rah…USA” mindset today….Maybe tomorrow…
Michael Reagan shouldn’t be listened to by even the dumbest of people.
It’s amazing what $100/gallon oil can do. Yes, I would believe it.
You know what tees me off, Tom? That we’re like freakin’ Russia in some ways. You got the same people pullin’ the same strings. Ole Pooty must be laughin’ his ass off about now.
What’s even more striking is that the Dems think they are the party of the “people” and think that the Republicans are the party of the rich. I think they have their wires crossed here.
What’s even more disenchanting is how we’re starting to mimick the socialist governments of France, Great Britain and other European models. Even Spain to a certain extent. There is no respect for capitalism in these countries because it’s limited and there’s governmental involvement all over the place. That’s why places like the former East Germany and France have high unemployment rates. You don’t have to work in these places… just ask the government for a handout and you’re set.
These are scary days, Tom. I find it laughable that people think that a lackwit like Obummer will solve our problems or “change” anything. He’s built his whole campaign around blaming the Bush administration and the economic turmoil. That’s it.
I would be naive if I were to say that McCain gives me any hope. I may support him but I know his weaknesses and they are plenty.
What kind of country will be left for my husband and I? I have a husband in the military and what will happen to him in the next couple of years? If we should have a child, what will their future be?
Dark times lie ahead, Tom… it will be a choice between what is easy and what is difficult (props to Harry Potter).
On September 19th, 2008 at 2:06 pm, Virginia Patriot said:
I am not going to waste my vote on a 9/11 truther, an anti-semite or someone who wants to end US military commitment overseas and to legalize drugs. I happen to think that anyone who is willing to effectively help elect Obama by lending their endorsement to moonbats and misfits on the misguided idea that they are helping conservative principles has a screw loose.
I love it when people who aren’t voting republican call people who are “RINO’s”.
Well said #185 Bill Grant
Pelosi, Reid, Bush. With the prospect of either Obama or McCain.
It’s beginning to look like Osama was right after all: the USA does not deserve to survive.
He missed the self-destruction part of it, though. Could’ve spared a few airplanes if he’d thought of that.