Virginia troopers resign over no-Jesus prayer policy
Six Virginia troopers who serve as chaplains stepped down from their jobs to protest a policy banning references to Jesus Christ in public prayers.
The policy is supported by Democrat Va. Gov. Tim Kaine.
Via CBN:
“There were several of us who felt that because of our convictions. about what the Bible says, we couldn’t agree to go along with a generic prayer policy,” said 13-year trooper Rex Carter, who works in Southwest Virginia.
Republican lawmakers in the state concurred, arguing that the new restrictions are a violation of the First Amendment and an attack on Christianity.
“For those of us who understand the importance of religion in American life and value the free expression of religion as one of our essential rights, the Kaine administration’s directive is disappointing and disheartening,” House Majority Leader H. Morgan Griffith, R-Salem, said.
“Censoring what these chaplains can say is a violation of their First Amendment right to freedom of expression,” Del. Charles W. Carrico Sr., said.
The former state trooper is currently putting together an online petition to get the police department to rescind the new rule.
See what others have said
Note from Michelle: This section is for comments from michellemalkin.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with or endorse any particular comment just because I let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with my terms of use may lose his or her posting privilege.
Trackbacks
- Virginia Troopers Quit Over Rules Restricting Free Expression : Stop The ACLU
- State troopers resign over ban on praying in Jesus’ name — Cranach: The Blog of Veith
- ScoopThis.Org » Six Virginia State Police chaplains resign over new prayer rules.
- State troopers resign over praying in Jesus’ name « Reformation Faith Today
Comments
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Categories: Political Correctness
Ed Driscoll
» The University Archipelago
Ed Driscoll
» First We Take Chicago, Then We Take BerlinPundit & Pundette
» Westboro haters have enough to go around for everyoneTigerHawk
» Abortion and health care "reform"Weekly Standard
» The Federal Bureau of Non-InvestigationNewsBusters.org
» Matthews on Ft. Hood Suspect Warning Signal: 'That's Not a Crime to Call al Qaeda, Is It?'protein wisdom
» The One note song [Darleen Click]Pundit & Pundette
» Guess what? Hasan frequented strip club
I’m so glad I moved before Kaine took control.
However references to Allah are perfectly acceptable.
Good for them (the chaplains).
Do we know why the state police banned those words from public prayers?
Kaine’s backing means jack. Thankfully he’s been completely irrelevant to life in VA. Soon, he’ll be gone, waiting for his turn as senator.
It’s always against Christianity and Christians. Always. I’d love to see them try to ban “Allah” – the riots! The anger! The politically-correct pandering! It would spin your head.
Those who can’t handle the truth
try to silence those who speak it.
It would be nice for someone to get Obama on record regarding this before Nov. 4th (HINT HINT GOP/MCCAIN/ETC), seeing as how Virginny is running so close ‘n all.
Alex
Co-prop, gopdepot
“You don’t have to like McCain in order to vote for him; in fact, it’s probably better you don’t – we are going to have to fight whoever wins for at least four years.”
I have so many things to say about this, but frankly, I just simply don’t know where to start.
I don’t think the VA police have any Muslim chaplains. If they did, Allah would be banned right along with Christ.
I’m guessing this is about someone’s misguided notion of not specifying a particular religion when praying.
Banning all public prayer by the police department makes far more sense if you’re going to head down that path.
I’m curious about what is considered public. If a chaplain is praying at the funeral service of a fallen trooper and that trooper is Christian, does the ban apply then? That would make absolutely no sense.
Heil, mein Führer!
The left hates Jesus. Thats the whole problem today. Jesus tells us right from wrong and there is no in between and the left HATES the truth. Jesus even said those that love Him will be persecuted for His Name. Welllll, it’s happening now. It won’t be long till we are expected to get ID markings on the back of our right hands or our foreheads. It makes me wonder whats going to happen when all this “bail out” thing is over. We are one step closer to having the “mark” forced upon us. Those that hate Jesus will be on bended knee and confessing that Jesus is Lord one of these days sooner than they think. If they don’t believe in Jesus……………….they will!!! God Bless the troopers that stepped down from their jobs, they will be blessed for it abundantly.
It doesn’t.
Democratic Socialist Communists can’t handle the truth,
and try to silence those who speak it.
Guess who they want to silence the most? “Ultra-Right-Wing” Christians.
They are fighting to “Defeat the Ultra-Right“.
Lan astaslem. I will not submit.
I’m glad these chaplains “couldn’t agree to go along with a generic prayer policy”, because this is what God says about those who do…
Now, it’s time to take this battle to the courts, because this is most certainly an unconstitutional restriction of religious speech:
The Kaine mutiny???
Virginia State Police spokesman, Ali bin Bu’ilshiet says that it not only violates Shari’a Law to mention Jesus in prayers, it is “a direct insult to The Prophet, Praise Be to Him, if it is not His Name used in prayer.” He has called for the common sentence for this insult…the heads of the six apostate chaplins….oh, wait, they already resigned…never mind….
Satire off/
I guess there is no point in saying a prayer in public or private if you can’t refer to Jesus. My Bible says that Jesus is the one who intercedes for us. Therefore the prayer doesn’t make it all the way to God without going through Jesus.
Good for the Chaplains for standing up for what is right.
This “rule” is completely UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The Government cannot censor speech. Those that don’t agree, see the First Amendment for clarification.
Where’s the ACLU on this one? How come Gov. Kain doesn’t have multiple lawsuits filed against him RIGHT NOW?
This cannot be allowed to stand. I can’t believe I’m reading this.
Credo, quia absurdum est.
Unbelievable.
I feel like I am part of a parallel universe, trying to fight my way back to the real universe, where sanity prevails. What in God’s name has happened to our country? I guess I can’t even ask that out loud anymore…
Sad. Just sad.
It would be interesting to see if these Chaplains had stayed in their positions, and prayed how they felt anyway in situations such as this.
Imagine what a public spectacle it would be if adverse action were taken against them then.
yes, they are afterall Christians, which means follower of Christ and should be allowed to represent their religion as well as freedom of speech. now, if he wants other religions to be represented then he needs to have a trooper rabbi and/or other forms of spiritual leaders for the officers of these beliefs to be represented. it seems to defeat the whole purpose of allowing a chaplain. geesh..
So wrong. So frustrating.
Another thing to add to MY prayer list and I do pray to Jesus Christ My Lord, outloud too.
.
BTW, Do they have muslim pissbaths there or in their airports?
Is CAIR involved with this?
Unfortunately, rather than anyone respecting this protest move and changing the (silly, offensive and unconstitutional) policy, it is more likely they will simply be replaced with people who are willing to follow it. Imams, for example.
No news here… we are sojourners in this land… just as our father Abraham… waiting for the trumpet call. Apostle Paul didn’t allow Roman edicts divert his attention to the task at hand… nor should we. Pray for Kaine, then leave him to God… and press on…
Hat’s off to the chaplains. It tkes a real man, or woman, to stand up for your beliefs. Even if it may mean the loss of your job. Remember, as Christians, we are supposed to lay up our treasures in heaven, while giving Caesar his due. We do have a 1st amendment right to freedom of religion. It is worded expressly as, “Congress shall make no law… prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. Even though the law was not made by Congress, it is a result of a federal court ruling. The same protections should be in place.
God Bless America, Land That I Love!
Stand Beside Her, And Guide Her,
Through The Night With The Light From Above.
Good questions. I would bet that CAIR is involved.
Remember that where the foot baths exist, they are there for safety of the worshipers only. Not expressly for religious purposes. We don’t want the cabbies to fall. I wonder what would happen if you watered or washed your seeing-eye dog, or pet pot-belly pig in one of those safety foot baths?
The chaplains should not have resigned. They took the easy road. They felt so strongly against such a policy that they felt led to quit, to leave the matter for someone else to fight? The policy writers forced these Christian chaplains out of the ministry without challenge, legal or otherwise. That’s not conviction. That’s living in fear. They should have forced the state’s hand by praying, as they did before, in the name of Jesus Christ. That would have provided a much better opportunity to bring this issue to light and change the rules.
“Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego replied to the king, ‘O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to give you an answer concerning this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king. But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.’” Daniel 3:16-18
2 Timothy 1:7-11 also comes to mind.
If I could I’d stand with them. I do in spirit.
If one can’t pray to our Creator and Savior, Jesus, what’s the point of praying? All else are demonic forces bound for the pit of eternal damnation.
And not because I say so, that’s the word of God.
They are cowards for quitting. They should have forced the issue by continuing to pray in the name of Jesus Christ without fear, without shame. Instead, they quit and started a petition. Big deal. They would have had a much better chance of beating this, and keeping their jobs/influence as chaplains, had they forced the state to take action, whether by firing them, which would have brought on a legal battle the state would not have wanted, or by changing the policy. This is not courage. This is feigning courage while acting cowardly.
Now, as you say, the policy stands, no one is left to fight it, and lukewarm/cold “Christian” chaplains or chaplains from another faith will fill their spots.
And we wonder why we’re losing the culture war? So many don’t recognize the 2nd and 3rd order effects of their actions, don’t know what they believe/why they believe it, or are too scared to act. In any case, this is quite sad.
Well, this is all very exciting and relevant, but I can’t help noticing there is zero coverage on this site of Palin’s painfully bad interview. Nothing to say about that, Michelle? Really?
An army of Davids…
Send_Me, you are right. There were three options from which the chaplains had to choose:
1) Submit to the rule and not pray in the name of Jesus (Lord of lords and King of kings)
2) Quit
3) Stay on the job, defy the rule, and keep praying in the name of Jesus.
I was commending them for not chosing #1. I agree the next step is to challenge this in the courts, and I think you are right that choice #3 gives a better platform from which to fight than choice #2.
On September 25th, 2008 at 10:18 pm, englishqueen01 said:
That just goes to show you who the true God really is…
they only try to ban the name of the true and living God.
These guys weren’t Davids. I’d say they acted more like John (also called Mark) from Acts 13:13, Acts 15:37-38.
“Now Paul and his companions put out to sea from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia; but John left them and returned to Jerusalem.”
“Barnabas wanted to take John, called Mark, along with them also. But Paul kept insisting that they should not take him along who had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work.”
I don’t even know what “Far Right” is.
I am a Christian Conservative. I am pretty much an average American. My views seem to be shared by most of the people I meet and speak with. Am I a member of the FR?
Exactly what defines a member of the Far Right?
The non-Jesus policy is part of the preparations for the coming of the antiChrist, Obama.
God is not politically correct, since Taney’s court decided that Jefferson’s letter is the rule, not the Constitution. A Godless nation never survives. Instead, with morality and values lost, with an “anything goes” attitude, it ends up in chaos.
A time is coming when we we all be told that the mention of Jesus in public, or the display of a cross in public, is a crime. Will you meekly comply with violations of your First Amendment rights and your strong faith or will you stand up for Jesus and be counted among His flock?
We will all be faced with the decision some day. These chaplains did exactly the right thing!!! God Bless them!
The camel in in the tent, the tent is filling up quickly with camel poop. Watch for a quickly increasing number of these First Amendment curtailings if Obama wins the election.
I Ain’t A’Biden nObama!
I think they’re more closely pegged as Jonahs. This is a clear line of faith for them, and rather than stand up for their beliefs, they bailed out.
That being said, I actually support the decision. Unless you’re a non-Christian, you have no idea how grating it is to take part in a public prayer or invocation and halfway through find yourself roped into something you absolutely don’t believe in. Even when you politely ask the speaker beforehand “Hey, not everyone here today is Christian, so could you please say something that might be meaningful to everyone?” and they still do it? What are we supposed to think then.
Honestly, that’s a side issue. What’s telling in this entire episode is that the first half of every one of those Chaplain’s Bibles is filled with messages, prayers, and stories that don’t specifically mention Jesus. They’ve got an entire Testament to work with, and instead of respecting the beliefs of the non-Christian colleagues they work with, these guys just take their ball and go home.
I can’t respect that. They’ll get no sympathy from me.
LOVE this from the WashingtoncomPost article:
you just can’t make this stuff up.
Does anyone know whether the text of the policy is available online? It’d be interesting to see.
…so to whom do they pray?
With all that is going on in these present times, we just cannot forget this most important truth.
Not everyone prays or sees the need for prayer. But that doesn’t mean we eliminate prayer (though by the VA state police logic, they should.) [For the foreseeable future, atheists and the non-religious will never be factors in such a debate that presupposes public prayer is ok.]
Given Mookie’s clarification (#11), this doesn’t seem to be such a draconian rule. Not everyone is Christian, but most people believe in some higher power. Mentions of Christ have some negative effects on those who aren’t Christians. At best it is mentally and emotionally distracting. Spiritually, I imagine that person feels somewhat marginalized.
Even within a prayer that allows mentions of Jesus, one could see a problem if the prayer leader brought tenets of his or her particular brand of Christianity into it.
What if the rules instructed the Catholic chaplains to drop references to the Holy Virgin or the innumerable saints? The Catholic chaplain resigns in protest. Do we come to his aid? Do we have any outrage if we’re not Catholic? Are we bothered by a public prayer that includes supplications in addition to Christ or God?
My own personal opinion is that none of this matters in the long run. The chaplains have every right to quit and protest. The state police have every right to create and enforce new rules. I would rather have the chaplains stay on and help serve the spiritual needs of the troopers. Public prayers should be lower on their list of concerns.
“Jesus was a community organizer”. Democrats want to invoke Jesus when it suits them. Once He has served their purpose, then He goes back on the shelf until they need Him again.
Excellent post DougT – very thoughtful and considered.
What is lost on many is that the effectiveness of your prayer is directly proportional to WHO you are praying to. If you pray to a rock, you’ll get the results that a rock can bring. If you pray to satan (or allah), you can get the results which satan can bring. If you pray to God Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, you can get results that only the creator can bring. Jesus said “I am THE way…there is no other way”. Praying in Jesus name brings effective results. Praying in no name is useless babbling feel good talk.
Typical VA Democrat. I have always wondered what the anal retentive (and a Democrat) who has been put in charge of our HOA here in NOVA would do if a resident elected to erect a cross in their yard.
This is the most clear attempt to suppress christianity I have seen in a long time. Why are liberals so phobic about christians? Of course christian priests will reference christ, of course catholic priests will reference the holy mother, of course muslim clerics will reference allah. It is their RELIGON. That is what they are there for. This ruling forces them to deny thier very inner being or resign. And DougT, when you say “Public prayers should be lower on their list of concerns.” You are actualy saying to them you should compromise the very core of thier religous beliefs for a paycheck.
Can Muslims be banned from kneeling on rugs?
I think not. Double standards.
I know there are arguments for the troopers to have stayed on the job, to be submissive to the decision, etc., etc., but would we all be having this conversation right now? Would we have known about this? Where are all of our rights? They have been taken away little by little, which is how Shar’ia Law infiltrates a country/region. Read your Cultural Geography textbooks (at least at non-liberal colleges).
This is a typical Christian temper tantrum, asserting that any attempt to respect other religions is an “attack” on Christianity. It isn’t, and for these chaplains to quit their important jobs for the sake of not being forced into including all religions in their prayers is just a disgrace. If their understanding of faith and it’s importance is so simple and flimsy that it’s worthless once they can’t say a name, then I guess they weren’t doing a great job at all.
just curious, are you wearing your starched brown shirt today?
its called freedom of religion, and speech, no surprise you’d be for taking it away like the good little liberal fascist you are.
We are a secular country. Prayer is not a government activity. Want to live in a religious country? Move to Iran.
I disagree with the writers here that say the Troopers should have stayed and fought. A dynamic we see played out in schools would have applied here.
For Example: Student expresses an opinion contrary to Liberal orthodoxy, but does it in a respectful manner. School officials demand student stop. Student refuses. Student is suspended or expelled; not for their belief, but for defying authority or being disrespectful to a teacher.
Had these Chaplins continued on with their use of Jesus name, they would have been fired or suspended for insubordination or conduct-unbecoming or whatever the department could come up with to smear their names and make them unemployable, while hiding the fact that they were dismissed for expressing their faith and their 1st Amendment rights.
This was the right path to take, bith for their careers and for the opportunity to expose this issue and set the policy right!
Omu spewed:
Quick question: Why should these chaplains accept these other religions to the exclusion of their own? How or in what world does that make any sense?
You can’t have it both ways. If you want to be all-inclusive that doesn’t mean shutting down one religion in favor for another.
Wrong answer. It’s more than that… so much more. I don’t expect you to understand… non-believers rarely do. You just want Christians to go along to get along. And when the crushing weight of being politically-correct comes a knocking they should just accept it. It has nothing to with “a name.” These are deeply held beliefs.
no we don’t sorry, you should move to north korea or cuba where you’d feel right at home.
So LGM and OMU want the chaplians to betray thier core beliefs. LGM should move to red china or cuba to enjoy thier religon free enviroment.
Gov. Kaine was quick to add that the invocation of the name Barack Hussein Obama at any quasi-religious functions in Virgina would be acceptable since he is a duly elected god and not subject to the vagaries of the separation of church and state. Also, those present may be blessed in the name of Sen. Jim Webb if concealed weapons are thought to be in the audience.
be principled
vote present in ‘08
So, I guess someone made up the term Judeo-Christian and the foothold it has in this country, huh? You are such a joke.
How funny that is, coming from the side of the debate that thinks that a police chaplin saying the name Jesus is offensive, violates the Constitution, and will cause some sort of theocracy to spring up in this nation.
Sorry, Omu, but it is your faith, or lack of faith that is weak. If you are so sure of your convictions, the Name Jesus, or Allah, or Buddah, would not matter. Yet it is you and your ilk that are constantly running to the goverment whining “Please make them stop saying that awful name.”
Weak faith, weak mind, weak Omu.
these good libs NEVER complain about the name of allah…oh no, that would be intolerant and racist…
Sure it isn’t, LGM. And the Supreme Court even said so… right after THEIR chaplain got through blessing the High Court for the day.
I’m kinda surprised at Kaine supporting the policy given his religious underpinnings, I almost voted for him after Killgore attacked his Catholic background and scare tactics on the death penalty (I support the death penalty even if Kaine doesn’t), it was economics and party policy that changed my vote.
I’ll say it again – praying in the name of nothing is useless talking in the wind.
Come to think of it – kinda the same as almost all liberal speech.
Kaine is a socialist democrat. That comes before anything else including his religion. Look at Kerry, Kennedy and Slo-Joe Biden. I think Catholics who are conservative politically and theologically see things a little differently.
LGM
Why? The ACLU and several prominent liberals think that Muslims should have prayer breaks, and if prayer isn’t a government activity, why does Congress invite people of different faiths to pray before the assembly?
Secularism is for the most part an evil philosophy, one that is destroying Europe, Canada and Australia.
Omu, please explain why the chaplain’s job is important. Then please explain how “being forced” into watering down their religious beliefs is even remotely associated with freedom of religion and expression. If you have heard the word of God, then you will have no excuses on judgement day.
This seems like such a non-issue to me. The chaplains can still pray however they like at private functions. Why is there a need for a Christian-specific prayer, or any prayer for that matter, at a public graduation, where there is most likely a mix of people of all faiths (and no faith)?
I think what LGM meant was that although we are a Christian country in the sense that the majority of people here are Christian, there is no state-sponsored religion in the US. That is different from a communist country where religion is BANNED. Is it really so hard to see the difference?
I am non-religious, however I am not a liberal and I do not give religions other than Christianity a free pass… I think Islam is highly destructive and I am not afraid to tell people so. I don’t really have any issues with Christianity other than this need (from my perspective) to constantly insert God into the public sphere. I am not trying to offend any of you here at all… Honestly, I just don’t get it. I’m not sure why you think that non-Christian troopers, at a non-religious public event, should have to listen to a Christian prayer…?
Jesus said the world would hate us because they hated him first. What he said is true. God-talk is ok, but dont mention that guy Jesus. Because he’s in your face reminding you of sin. And nobody in America is a sinner anymore.
its called freedom, and yes you libs do get it, you want to end freedom for christians….its like orwell said, some pigs are more equal than others….its the liberal worldview.
why should I be forced to listen to a non-christian prayer? why should a chaplain give up his freedom of speech and religion?
Why cant Christians pray anywhere the way we are taught by our savior? If there are all mixes of faiths, why cant they just sit quietly for a few minutes while we finish talking to our Savior? What exactly is so offensive about Jesus’ name? I’ll tell you what – because he is the savior and those that reject him despise him.
I will pray wherever I am in the name of my savior and neither you nor any two bit socialist democrat governor is going to stop me.
I don’t understand Virginia these days. Maybe the rest of Virginia should secede from the DC suburb counties.
No state-sponsored religion? Please. What do you call evolution that’s being taught dogmatically in all the government schools? If evolution is not a religion there aint no cows in Texas.
Try talking Intelligent Design in the schools and see how fast you are escorted out the door.
And yes, religion is banned in the public square in America, only it’s only the Judeo-Christian God who is banned.
right4life, did you see the part where I said I am not a liberal?
yeah… the issue to me is why should there be a prayer at all?
Freedom of Speech doesn’t mean that there can’t be policies set by a government entity about what can and can’t be said in a public function. The chaplain still has freedom of speech; he can hold a private ceremony, or walk out onto the street, or go to his church and pray as loud and as long as he wants and no one can stop him.
I have no desire to “end freedom for Christians.” I doubt very many people do (except for some Muslims, lol). Not wanting religion injected into the public sphere is not “ending freedom” for you.
So if a trooper/soldier/government-employee-of-any-sort uses “Jesus” or “Christ” (or any combination of the two) as an exclamation, is he/she establishing a state religion? Will the offending party be fired? Or is it okay to say “Jesus” when swearing but not when praying?
No he wouldnt. Not only would the name of allah be allowed but they’d be given time off to pray and prayer rugs to boot.
They are banning any references to Jesus Christ. Which means this was a common practice until some know-it-all stepped in and wanted to shake things up. And for what? Why is that under the umbrella of all religions does Christianity become the one that must change its focus?
…and banning any references to Jesus Christ in a prayer is somehow state-sponsored religion in the US?
I am not trying to offend any of you here at all… Honestly, I just don’t get it. I’m not sure why you think that non-Christian troopers, at a non-religious public event, should have to listen to a Christian prayer…?
oh a little thing called freedom…why are so against it?
really? where is that in the constitution?
you just said:
the street is a ‘public function’ so why can’t his speech be regulated there? and its just another small step to regulating speech everywhere .
so only the religion of atheism/darwinism is acceptable in the public square…my how ‘tolerant’ of you!
Serious? I think the definition of religion we are discussing concerns a supernatural creator. At least that’s the definition I meant when I said no state-sponsored religion. Under that definition evolution doesn’t exactly qualify as a religion.
well, I agree with you here that other gods seem to get a free pass from the left in general. Which I don’t understand and happens to be one of many reasons I am not a liberal.
please, evolution purports to explain how we got here, and all behavior, its a religion. it denies God, and has its own morality, its own worldview. its a religion.
right4life, the street is not a public function. I’m not sure what you mean. It is a public SPACE…
I think you know as well as I do that freedom of speech doesn’t mean there can’t be policies set by certain agencies as to what is acceptable and what is not at public functions.
What exactly is a non-denominational prayer? Every Christian denomination I know prays in Jesus’ name. Is there a Christian denomination that does not see Jesus as savior and therefore prays in the name of something else?
This is a load of hooey.
And Anti-Christ when he gets here (excuse the vernacular)aint gonna have no problems.
About 99% of our own Congress will fall in line right behind him.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that we are endowed by Our Creator with certain inalienable rights…”
Although I agree that we are headed down a secular, godless path in this country, our Founding Fathers never intended this. They had the wisdom and foresight that comes from opening their meetings with humble and sincere prayer, seeking God’s wisdom. Thanks to their faithfulness, we all can enjoy the freedom to discuss this issue.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
I was trying to say that dragging evolution into what we were discussing is missing the point, since it uses a different definition of “religion” than what I meant when I said “state-sponsored religion.”
I never mentioned evolution or Darwinism, you have no idea what I think about it, so it’s just muddying up the conversation.
and christians are being banned from the streets, for example during a gay pride event…don’t want any christians seen or heard.
it sounds like you’re OK with atheism as a state-sponsored religion, which is basically what Kaine is doing, but uncomfortable with any faith other than that.
sorry the last quote should have been..
Evolution is a religion – just try challenging an evolutionist about his worldview.
It has a god, it has prophets (Darwin and Gould) and it has its holy book. It requires belief because it cannot be proven. In fact it requires more faith to believe something came from nothing than it does to believe in an Intelligent Designer who commanded nothing to do something.
Evolution cannot explain how we got here. Try asking an evolutionist “where did it come from” and see how fast you are invited to leave the discssion. Been there done that.
However, I agree with you on your other points.
And even evolutionary scientists believe in design. I’ve heard the phrase “this animal was designed to…” when applied to dinosaurs from evolutionary biologists more times than I can count. So who designed it? They cant (or wont) answer that question.
Call it what you like – evolution is a state-sponsored religion and it is not off topic and it is not muddying anything.
Religion is a faith system and evolution is a faith system.
Liberals treat Christianity like smoking. “We’re not going to ban smoking; after all, this is America. You can do it anywhere you want as long as you don’t do it in public places or your car or your home in front of your children. You’re free to do it but we’re just trying to protect ourselves and your children from the second hand consequences.”
Liberals hate us because we love Jesus! I don’t do Christianity; I am a CHRISTIAN!! The Son of God died for my sins and His Holy Spirit lives in me. I will not deny or keep silent about my Redeemer!!
To paraphrase John McCain’s acceptance speech, “My Lord saved me and I cannot forget it. And I will fight for Him as long as I draw breath, so help me God.”
The chaplains took the easy way out.
This is getting silly. Do atheists have prayers, or places of worship, or events that they ask the government to sponsor?
Do you see any distinction between “secular” and “atheist”?
Consider, as long as we are quoting Jefferson, that we can argue all day about if he believed in God or not, but even if he did, he certainly believed in a secular state. A secular state is quite different from an atheist state, and it surprises me that the intelligent people on this site can’t seem to see the difference.
Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
-Thomas Jefferson
That is why they call them religious NUTS.