Virginia troopers resign over no-Jesus prayer policy
Six Virginia troopers who serve as chaplains stepped down from their jobs to protest a policy banning references to Jesus Christ in public prayers.
The policy is supported by Democrat Va. Gov. Tim Kaine.
Via CBN:
“There were several of us who felt that because of our convictions. about what the Bible says, we couldn’t agree to go along with a generic prayer policy,” said 13-year trooper Rex Carter, who works in Southwest Virginia.
Republican lawmakers in the state concurred, arguing that the new restrictions are a violation of the First Amendment and an attack on Christianity.
“For those of us who understand the importance of religion in American life and value the free expression of religion as one of our essential rights, the Kaine administration’s directive is disappointing and disheartening,” House Majority Leader H. Morgan Griffith, R-Salem, said.
“Censoring what these chaplains can say is a violation of their First Amendment right to freedom of expression,” Del. Charles W. Carrico Sr., said.
The former state trooper is currently putting together an online petition to get the police department to rescind the new rule.
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AMEN!
Evolution is a religion?
Give me a break. There are plenty of religious people that accept the theory of evolution (and the theory of gravity, and the theory of relativity, and quantum theory, etc.) Evolution does not deny God, at the least it just says “he” has a rather involved method.
Evolution does not have its own morality anymore then the theory of gravity purports to describe morality. It’s science, not ethics.
As far as worldview, I am not sure what that means in this context, but it certainly doesn’t have as much of a “worldview” as a religion does.
This idea the “evolution” is a religion is just downright silly and a semantics game to make some point.
That said, I am uncomfortable with the idea of banning any kind of speech, though I am also uncomfortable with having to listen to a prayer from a religion I do not believe in.
I suppose that if it’s OK to have a Christian prayer at a public graduation (where there are people of many faiths) then everyone from any faith there should be allowed to come up and make their own prayer. I can see this becoming a bit ridiculous.
So, what’s the solution? Disallow anyone from saying a prayer at a public event or allow everyone from every faith there to say their own prayer? Do we then even allow militant atheists to start praying to FSM or the Invisible Pink Unicorn? Or do we start making rules about which religion is allowed?
Utter nonsense! What is evolutions “God?” What is it’s holy book? Prophets? These are scienetists that have been shown to be wrong. Science is constantly changing and updating. This is completely different from unwavering faith.
Abiogenisis is an ongoing area of study. The are many ideas, but no one answer.
Equivocation. Semantics… *yawn*.
it does? This is news to me.
Interesting.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
never heard of this one huh?
why does this ‘wall’ always seem to restrict the freedom of speech of christians?
Au contraire, the “unwavering faith” in this case is the continued belief, despite proof to the contrary, that man, animals, and plants developed (evolved) from other species.
TT, you make two mistakes here.
In Jeffersons Letter’s to the Danbury Baptists that you quoted here, he was talking specifically about a state-sponsored religion, not about religion in public life.
You second mistake is with your inclusion of the separation of church and state. It should be curious to all that if Jefferson was so enamoured with that concept that it would have shown up, not in a letter to a group of clergy, but in the Founding Documents of our Government, which Jefferson had a hand in writing.
Anti-religious zealots can always find some obscure document stating that this founding father or that one really and truly believed THIS. Trouble is, when thos same men had the opportunity to make that belief a part of this country’s foundation, they didn’t.
you really should learn about the theory you purport to beleive in….
here’s what that ‘good catholic’ miller said:
sure it does…do anything to survive, no right, no wrong.
evolution purports to explain all of human, and animal behavior. it really has a god (darwin) and its own morality, which we saw in the eugenics movement.
You are kidding, right? The ACLU [Anti-Christian Legal Union] has been trying to rid America of God & Jesus for 40 years or more! The ACLJ should take this on!
right4life:
Last I checked, I didn’t get a day off on Darwin’s birthday due to a government holiday.
MtsEdge:
What “proof” to the contrary?
I’m against any theocracy, whether it be christian, islamic, or any other kind. I support the policy.
Over 40 distinguished academics, philosophers, scientists and writers called for a new public holiday on 12 February to celebrate the birth of Charles Darwin. In a letter to the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary (see below for text and signatures), organised by the British Humanist Association, they proposed a new public holiday on the calendar by 2009, the 200th anniversary of his birth.
its coming, just like time off for daily prayers to mecca
Quit trying to argue evolution to non-Christians. Their denial of God starts at the beginning of His word in Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning, GOD created the heavens and the earth.” They deny creation for the same reason they deny the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a God, He created us and He is going to judge us for our sins in the next life. No matter how good you think you are, one sin will separate you from a Holy God for eternity.
That’s the bad news of the Gospel. Here’s the good news: “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” (John 3:16)
With eternity on the line, how do you expect Chrisians to remain silent? We are pleading for your souls and all the unsaved that you would repent of your sins and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Savior. Heaven or hell, the choice is yours.
Whoo Hooo… another paid day off!
right4life:
Oh seriously!
It is entirely consistent to believe in God AND accept evolution. All it means is that God had a lot of foresight and did a great deal of pre-planning. In fact, isn’t that what “intelligent design” purports?
I do not take this line of thought personally, but both my parents do.
The idea that ethics and morality can’t exist without God is also silly. I have said before (more times than I can count) there is such a thing as evolved morality.
obviously its not. evolution says no god, no right no wrong. the ‘christians’ who think they can are ‘having their cake and eating it too’.
since you don’t believe miller, perhaps you’ll believe gould:
“Darwin developed an evolutionary theory based on chance variation and natural selection imposed by an external environment: a rigidly materialistic (and basically atheistic) version of evolution,” (- Stephen Jay Gould, Ever Since Darwin: Reflections in Natural History 33 (W.W. Norton 1977).)
didn’t say that exactly, I said evolution has no right and wrong, how can there be? there is only survival, and whatever it takes to do that…thats why the eugenics movement came from the evolution
You attend church with your Christian wife. My memory fails me right now as I cannot remember the title you had given yourself… ah, that’s right, you called yourself a cultural Christian. That’s it.
How about a simple example. Fossils. Not only does the fossil record confirm that a great amount of water pressure sealed living things into the mud, but these living things contain the same structures as plants we see today. Nothing has ever been caught “in the act” of evolving…Darwin himself admitted this.
30 pcs:
Caveat what I said with the phrase “at a public event” which was the topic at hand.
Private setting is completely different.
I cannot speak for all Christians. However, this Christian doesn’t have a problem with microevolution… as I’ve said many times before. But I do take issue with macroevolution.
MtsEdge:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/02/040220074308.htm
Though I have no doubt many here will dispute whether or not that was “really” evolution.
StanW said:
hmm. So I guess my question then is, which does a graduation ceremony for state troopers fall under? Seems like both to me.
What is the first amendment then?
again… what do you think the first amendment is?
Part of your problem can be found right here, Zero. We have to ‘accept’ evolution, or we have to ‘believe’ in evolution. I do not ‘believe’ in gravity, or in math. THAT is science and it is either provable or disprovable.
Evolution is a theory, not scientific fact. It has never been proven, and may not be capable of proof. Evolution requires as much faith as Creation.
And for the other side of your coin, I (and most Christians) do not need evolution to be false for our religion to exist. God created the univerise and all in it. Maybe he did it through a process that we humans call evolution. I have no problem with that.
What I have found though, is the the biggest proponents of evolution not only need God out of the equation, they demean and ridicule any mention of religion as ignorant and non-scientific. Hardly the case.
Creation and evolution. Both are theories, both require faith. Only one of the deludes itself and it’s folowers into thinking that it is hard science and the only truth.
Oops! The evolution of the peppered moth over the last two hundred years has been studied in detail
Again, I say, AMEN!
I heard this quote somewhere (but I cant remember the source):
DON’T THESE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND?!
Jesus who?
BARACK OBAMA IS THE MESSIAH, THE CHOSEN ONE, THE WORD. Prayers to The One are doubtless encouraged.
StanW:
You don’t seem to understand what a scientific “theory” is.
Do you accept the theory of gravity? Quantum theory? Relativity?
Umm.. OK. Then I don’t think we are arguing over anything.
Zero, I’m not interested in hijacking this thread. I will only say that your example does NOT prove that even the smallest bacteria “evolved” into another species. “Adapted” perhaps. But evolution makes much larger claims, that species actually went from mud to man.
Let me return a question to you, then TT. How is an invocation at a graduation ceremony establishing a national religion?
I believe it goes something like this… “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”.
Clear enough for you??
Honestly, I grow very tired of repeating myself.
I worry for the future of America. The fact is, science marches on and then rest of the world is poised to leave America behind whilst we debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and exactly how is it that celestial bodies seem to have such convoluted movements (after all, God created Earth at the center of the universe).
The level of scientific ignorance on this forum and even among our politicians is appalling (both republican and democrat).
I am an atheist and I am a moral person. I served our nation in war and I consistently vote Republican.
Am I offended by Christians (or any other religion)? No, but once they start trying to force it into a science classroom you bet I am offended! I don’t expect many of you to understand why God does not belong in a science classroom but hopefully this will give you an idea:
“It is my scientific theory that Zeus throws lightning. Prove me wrong.”
All praise the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
Again, I will not hijack this thread. But you should try a better source than wikipedia for this type of discussion.
Somebody is being a little inconsistent. Again, with respect to the topic at hand. The issue isn’t prayer itself or whether or not it occurred in a public sphere. They took issue with the chaplains saying Jesus Christ. Because that wasn’t all-inclusive enough. I can hardly contain my laughter because I can’t think of a religion more all-inclusive than Christianity.
_____________________________________
If the name of Jesus offends then let it offend.
I known exactly what scientific theory is, Zero. What we are arguing about is evolution as science. It is not!. It is a theory, and unproven theory that requires as much faith to believe in as Creationism.
So which one is taught in public school as scientific fact and which is banned from public school as “religious dogma”?
this is laughable. haven’t you got the message, this is a fake..oh and in those 2 hundred years peppered moths evolved into peppered moths..another sterling example of ‘evolution’
30pcs:
Yes. I think I highlighted this point in an earlier post. It is a public non-religious event with people of many different religions (as opposed to my wife’s church).
Should we allow everyone there to make thier own prayers for thier own specific religion?
I never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
ever hear of ‘junk dna’? oh yeah we didn’t understand it, so according to evolution its ‘junk’ nothing to see here, so move along…but its not ‘junk’ evolution is the science stopper…darwin of the gaps. laughable. evolutionists cannot win the argument on science, so they have to resort to silencing the opposition, like the good brown-shirts they are.
go ahead prove scientifically the earth is NOT at the center of the universe…
How does something come from nothing?
don’t worry, everyone here can tell you’re a fool. ie a typical darwiniac.
StanW:
The fact that you think “theories are proven” proves your ignorance. Theories are not “proven” they are supported. You can never “prove” a theory. EVER.
Fact’s don’t “fit” theories. Theories fit the facts.
Newton, Pascal, etc would have disagreed with you. you atheists only want atheism preached as ’science’
It happens all the time on the quantum level.
Thanks for paying attention!
America is the most Christian nation in the world and has never been more so. Yet, our economy is crashing around us, poverty and teen pregnancy are on the rise, and we have the largest percentage of citizens imprisoned of any country in the world.
Kum by ya my Lord
try that at the grand canyon
Nothing condescending here.
Wow. I actually love science but do go on with your broad brush strokes.
Thank you for your service!
I don’t wish that creationism be taught in schools. But there are many things that are being foisted upon children in schools these days much more detrimental to their well-being than the prospect of creationism.
You can praise whoever you wish. Free will.
right4life:
The Earth is not the center of the universe for all reasonable definitions of the word “center.” Anything else is silly semantics.
As for Newton, Pascal, etc. They may have been religious but they used a naturalistic scientific method. I don’t think you understand the distinction.
Thank you for admitting that you know nothing about the Scientific Method and even less about actual science.
laughable, do you darwiniacs EVER tell the truth?
you can thank liberalism for that! you know that secular belief that guvmint can ’save’ us!
most all taught by publik skools that evolution is true.
the truth is NO ONE KNOWS.
you don’t understand the difference between the scientific method and philosphical naturalism, which is what evolution is.
StanW:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
I’d expect at the least an admission that you are wrong. Unless, of course, you think you know more about science than Prof. Hawking
1. There is no “state sponsored” religion. There never has been and never will be.
2. Praying to Jesus have never violated the “state sponsored” religion rule (which IS NOT in the Constitution) no matter how loud liberals scream.
3. Praying to Jesus does not promote one religion over another. There are over 2000 denominations in this country alone and many of them believe in Jesus. If a State Trooper prays in the name of Jesus, which “religion” is he representing? None.
4. Christianity IS NOT a religion. Being a Christian means you become a follower of Christ not a religion. You can be a Baptist and be a follower of Christ. You can be a Catholic and be a follower of Christ…
5. Fear is why Jesus is banned. Jesus called us to love one another. You can’t have Jesus and abortion. You can’t have Jesus and misrepresent the public that voted for you. You can’t have Jesus and worship power. You can’t have Jesus and worship money. The ONLY answer in a corrupt society is to remove Jesus and substitute him with moral relativism.
That is all that is taking place here every time Jesus is removed from “Public” life.
lets see searching for signs of intelligence in radio waves (SETI) IS science…and searching for signs of intelligence in the ground (archeology) IS science, but searching for signs of intelligence is biology is BLASPHEMY…
30pcs:
Then do we allow militant atheists to mock religion by praying to FSM and Invisible Pink Unicorn at public events?
The spike in these evidences of our spiritual downfall can be traced to the early 60’s when prayer and the Bible were forced out of public schools…replaced by secular “character education”, birth control, abortion on demand, moral relativism, etc. This is directly relevant to the issue of this thread, banning references to Jesus in prayer. Look where that has brought us.
right4life:
You have said these same things many times and they have been answered many times.
I have (in the past) tried to explain the distinction between biology, SETI, and archeology, but you are either willfully or actually ignorant.
I personally like THOR, he is cool.
the operative word is tried the only difference is that biology has become the faith of evolution, no other options are allowed…
stupid is as stupid does…
That is one man’s opinion, Zero. It’s a nice thought, but it is possible and likely to start with a theory and reach a conclusion that proves the theory.
However, this is semantics and neither of us will back down, so let’s go on a different track.
Do you support the unproven theory of evolution being taught as scientific fact in public schools?
First, they are afraid of muslums because muslums are not tolerant, they don’t believe in live and let live.
Second, the enemy of my enemy is my friend!
StanW:
It is not an “opinion.” It is the scienctific definition of the word “theory.”
The fact that the colloquial definition is different is fine, but if you are talking about a scientific “theory” you must use the scientific definition!
This question is phrased wrong. I fully support the scientific theory of evolution being taught as the only scientific theory that fits the facts.
thats the bottom line….their hatred for christianity knows no bounds….I find it interesting, but not unexpected..
If it is that important to you… knock yourself out. Personally, I wouldn’t feed the stereotype. You don’t believe. Okay, here’s a cookie. Let’s move on. My husband’s best friend doesn’t believe in God and we have some interesting conversations. We aren’t trying to force Christianity on to anyone. That’s an absurd claim but one that has been perpetrated, but only non-believers latch on to.
I will bet you wouldn’t say that to Thor’s face!
30 pcs:
I am not talking about myself. I am not militant and would never dream of mocking religion at a public event with a prayer to the FSM.
There are however, some that would. What do you propose concerning these people? Allow them to pray as well? That seems to be what you think. If thats the case, then I don’t disagree. That is a solution.
Exactly. Because they have no core beliefs, thus no principles.
Like Obama said: ‘We are the ones we have been waiting for’. In other words…I am my own god/
Of course – sadly there are too many in America who believe in the literal translation of the Bible. Ironically they share the creationism only rule with Islamic fundamentalists.
The question was phrased perfectly and you illustrate why there is arguments.
The so called FACTS are often manipulated to fit your theory. When those FACTS are proven to be lies or fakes, you simply change the theory to fit the new facts.
Facts that supposedly support evolution are touted to the highest levels of science, until they trun out to be less that true. Facts that support creationism are ignored or distorted, with the athestic mantra of “Religion does not belong in the classroom”.
Sorry, but evolution is an unrpoven theory being taught as scientific fact. And this is happening because you anbd your ilk cannot accept the two possibilites that (1) God does really exist and (2) That you are WRONG!
So how many should there be? The other day you were saying McCain has too many cars.
Why do you put it upon yourself to judge and control what other people do and have? I repeat, sausage is the ONE sausage has been waiting for.
I didn’t think you included yourself in that group. These people have no bearing on how I live my life, so if that’s how they want to spend their time… by all means.
StanW:
Oh geez. That is science (more or less)! You take observed facts, come up with a theory, do tests, make predictions, etc. When the facts don’t fit the theory, you modify the theory!
As for God in the science classroom, please refer to my “Zeus throws lightning bolts” example.
Science has been said to describe the methods, not the ultimate reasons.
30 pcs:
OK, well at least we agree on this particular subject.
Honestly I have mixed feelings. I would get a bit peeved if someone tried to make a prayer to the FSM at a public ceremony, it’s just not appropriate. However, if it’s OK with you, than I can be OK with a prayer to Jesus (or Allah, or Buddha, or whomever).
but it doesn’t! this is whats SO funny, evolution explains nothing, zero, zilch, nada. the ‘facts’ are squeezed to fit into the evolutionary narrative of atheism. and anyone who dares disagrees is sued, silenced, and harassed.
there is no evolution in the fossil record, nor is it observable in the lab. it cannot be duplicated, or disproven, yet its ’science’. what a joke.
but it does, as the previous quotes I posted prove. God is explicity rule out.
Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent.”
Provine, William B. [Professor of Biological Sciences, Cornell University], “, “Evolution: Free will and punishment and meaning in life”, Abstract of Will Provine’s 1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address.
If I ever encountered that sort of thing, the first thing I would do is pray for those people.
But when have you done that? When the facts lead you away from natural selection, did you change your theory? No, you ignored the facts. When the fossils you based your theory on were proven to be fakes or did not support your theory, did you change your theory? NO.
We know more about the world around us now that Darwin could ever have known in his day. You woudl think after all this time, evolutionists would have enough evidence on their side to make this a moot point. Except the more we are able to discover about this world, the less sense evolution makes.
Seen any new species lately?
new species are consistent with creationism too.
Yes, they spring into existance, not slowing change over millenia.
Which is what the fossil record shows.
right4life:
By all means, please continue. I honestly grow tired of this debate as well as your habitual quoting and re-quoting of the same things again and again. Though I am sure you won’t believe it, no one is “silenced.” They are, however, laughed out of the scientific community because what they purport is not science anymore than “Zeus throws lightning” is science.
StanW:
If a fully-formed ape skeleton (or horse, or dinosaur, etc.) was found in the Cambrian, it would totally destroy evolution. I have no doubt you are convinced of your “facts.” It doesn’t change the fact that you are ignorant of science (as evidenced by even your misunderstanding of the word “theory”) and unqualified for this debate.
I have tried my very best to educate others on this forum. As I have said, the level of scientific ignorance is appalling to me.
I honestly do lament the fact that you fellas cannot seem to understand why God must remain outside a science classroom. I also truly do hope for both your sakes that if you have children you are able to raise them in your faith, but at the same time they are able to recognize something you can’t: the distinction between religion and science. I hope this for all America’s children.
I have read somewhere that in 10-20 years 80% of the world’s PhDs will come out of Asia. Modern scientific research holds great promise in the area of medicine and biology. It would be a real shame if America’s children are left behind because they cannot seem to grasp the basis of the scientific method.
Our country has always been a beacon of innovation and discovery. I hope it remains so.
Indeed. One would expect that at some point someone witnessed a new animal just magically appear from nowhere as a miracle of God creating it.
It’s not establishing a national religion. But so what. It’s still respecting an establishment of religion
you know, the part you didn’t bold.
The courts have upheld the “wall of separation” interpretation of the first amendment many times, in line with Jefferson’s Danbury Baptist letter.
BRB lunch.
By the way, I just want to say… telling people they are going to burn and suffer in hell for eternity if they don’t believe what you believe doesn’t really do anything for your request that the non-Christians should just sit quietly by while the Christians pray. Am I not supposed to find that offensive?
TRANSLATION: I cannot counter anything you have said, so I will be condescending, act superior to you, and will dismiss you out of hand.
Your explaination is noted, Zero. It is pointless to continue a debate with someone so closed-minded as you.
Refusing to believe in biblical cosmology means that someone is without principles? Is that the ultimate argument about the truth of creationism vs evolution?
Morals and ethics do not require a god, let alone the God of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition.
Your personal faith is not my business. My personal faith is not yours.
The argument here is that should personnel on the public payroll be allowed to display their piety in public toward a specific personal belief?
There are decent arguments both ways. Fundamentally, if we pay public servants to act in a spiritual capacity, then we are already giving tacit approval to their personal faiths. Even if we don’t like it, those individuals should be allowed to express themselves according to their personal beliefs (my opinion, of course.)
So, if we really believe that a remedy is required in this situation, rather than stopping the free speech of the public employee, we could entertain a couple of other options:
1) Hire chaplains who are not Christian. Rabbis, imams, priestesses, hell, I don’t know who needs to be covered. Rotate them around for public appearances. Stick to your ecumenical guns, so to speak.
2) Stop hiring public personnel, either as direct employees or contractors, to serve in positions regarding religious faith.
3) Hire chaplains based on the religious makeup of the personnel they serve. In the military, we seemed to have a chaplain for practically every belief. Is this cost effective? Probably not. Would we require public employees to specify their private beliefs upon acceptance of employment? Do we hire a chaplain because we hired a single trooper who is a Mormon or follows the Ba’hai faith?
Tough questions and tough alternatives. But appealing to the dogmatic truth of your particular belief as an argument is simply not valid (every believer can do that and we make no movement toward consensus.) Neither is stressing your victimhood (non-believers in your faith can play that same card.) These are serious questions that require thoughtful and reasoned consideration.
Faith is such a powerful personal thing. The moment it becomes the subject of common (public) support, we will have these sorts of issues. Taking the expedient (I’m not saying correct) course of action to remove these issues from the public sphere doesn’t make you anti-god or atheist. It’s just an attempt to solve an intractable problem, albeit a lazy attempt I think, akin to flipping the chess board in frustration.
zeroangel – beautifully put. Especially:
ahhh it always comes down to hell, I find it interesting that people who say they don’t believe in it are offended by it…how can you be offended by something you don’t believe in?
and the muslims say the same, but no one is ever offended by them…if they want to keep their head on their shoulders….
but I’m offended by atheists, they shouldn’t be seen or heard…its the first amendment, right? the right not to be offended….sure
Do you have children?
Actually the Bible says the world was created in 7 days (earth days? I don’t know) So I don’t see any logic whatsoever in your statement. If you were a little bit more logical, you would wonder why ape-men are not walking out of the jungles of Africa and Asia.
What?? By saying a prayer at a graduation ceremony, a religion is being established? Are you being serious here?
The 1st Amendment says the US Government cannot establish a national religion. It also says you cannot prohibit the free exercise of RELIGION… not Christianity, or Judism, or Islam, but RELIGION. No one is establishing a religion here. At least, no more than the SCOTUS or Congress, which starts every session in prayer. Why is it good enough for them, but not for us?
I appreciate your faith in the infallability of the SCOTUS, but the court has changed it’s mind before. And I have a hard time beleiving you would be so cavilier in our attitude if a 5-4 decision said the Separation clause was unConstitutional, WHICH IT IS!
Yes, sausage, how sad. How sad that we believe what the Bible says. How sad that we would rather hear what God says than you. How sad that we don’t believe in a world view that sifts like desert sands like you.
And, by the way, there’s a big difference between Christians and muslims. Christians love non-believers and pray they will come to Christ. Muslims kill non-believers for rejecting Islam. Christians are the only thing standing between you and the sword of Islam. Give it some thought before you pity us.
why do you keep refusing to acknowledge what evolutionists actually say?
this is just amazing…what happened to sternberg and gonzales is well documented..how you atheists refuse to acknowledge the brown-shirt tactics of your ’scientific’ brethren is amazing.
PZ myers, Dawkins et al have no sense of humor, just a typical outrage of an IMAM when their faith is questioned.
no it wouldn’t. they keep finding fossils tens of millions older than originally thought, and it ’sheds new light on evolution’ laughable.
your whole spiel about science needing evolution is laughable…evolution informs science of nothing…even coyne admits this, why can’t you?
To some extent these excesses are not Mindell’s fault, for, if truth be told, evolution hasn’t yielded many practical or commercial benefits. Yes, bacteria evolve drug resistance, and yes, we must take countermeasures, but beyond that there is not much to say. Evolution cannot help us predict what new vaccines to manufacture because microbes evolve unpredictably. But hasn’t evolution helped guide animal and plant breeding? Not very much. Most improvement in crop plants and animals occurred long before we knew anything about evolution, and came about by people following the genetic principle of `like begets like’. Even now, as its practitioners admit, the field of quantitative genetics has been of little value in helping improve varieties. Future advances will almost certainly come from transgenics, which is not based on evolution at all.
no, as I’ve already stated there is no evidence for evolution, none in the fossil record, or in the lab. sorry.
evolution means there is no right and wrong…please stop distorting the opposition’s position. makes you sound like a liberal.
right4life (#184), you bring up a great point about being offended by something you don’t believe is real. I agree with that argument for adults. However, when it used to scare children, that’s a different story. Especially when it comes from the mouths of other children. Religious source is irrelevant, as you say.
so we should just shut kids up huh? wow.
I’m not distorting a thing. I’m trying to find what is the ultimate point of arguing creationism vs evolution.
That is a distortion. It makes you sound like a close-minded dogmatic believer.
Evolution does not address morality or ethics. Simple as that.
When I was in college, we studied some english moth in the 1800’s when soot was so much in the air. The whiter moths died out and darker colored moths survived. Why? Because predators could see the white moths against the black soot. But, DID THEY EVOLVE or just change wing color. They did not turn into birds or mammals or anything else. They merely changed their wing color.
No, no need to shut the kids up. I just have to spend time explaining to my children that they aren’t in any peril. I don’t care for people scaring my children unnecessarily.