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1. Michelle Malkin » Kill the bailout: The House floor debate is on; Bill fails
2. silent E speaks - Conservatively Speaking from Western Waukesha County » MOAB Update: Thanks But NO!!!
3. Ogre’s Politics and Views » Bailout FAILS!
4. Should House Republicans just vote NO on bail out? (UPDATE: Video) « Sharp Right Turn
5. BREAKING: House Rejects , An Ol’ Broad’s Ramblings
6. The American People Want A Full Meal Buffett Deal–Not A Bailout! « Pronk Palisades
7. southchild » Blog Archive » House Republicans to the Rescue
8. Bloodthirsty Liberal » Hey, Nancy Palooza—Who’s Unpatriotic Now?
9. BAILOUT FAILS! « Down the Ticket
10. BipolarNation.com » Let the Storm Pass
11. Bailout Dies on the Vine | NeoConstant
12. Video Done Right
13. Nicholas Fitzgerald » Pelosi’s Mouth Kills Bail Out Plan
14. Webloggin » Bailout Bill Rejected: 40% Dems and 67% Repubs Vote No
15. And it fails! Bloggers react. « Politics and Profits: Business and the 2008 Election
16. Plumb Bob Blog » Doesn’t Matter How Good the Bailout Plan Was
17. WeatherOutpost12
18. Oops: Shit Sandwich Fails « Nice Deb
19. Bailing Out The Bush Legacy: Wither Conservatism? | Political Vindication
20. The Other McCain: Bipartisan bailout blowup!
21. Text of Bailout Bill: Read The Latest Draft « Sooshi Soo
22. Right Angles » Blog Archive » NC delegation votes 9-4 against ‘crap sandwich’ bailout bill
23. Mark Levin Fan » Blog Archive » 95 House Democrats join 133 Republicans to defeat bailout
24. House Defeats Bailout Bill - What Now? | FullosseousFlap's Dental Blog
25. Take That Bill And Shove It! | Democrat=Socialist
26. Seymour Nuts » Blog Archive » Thank God This Bailout Died
27. Democrats Kill Bailout | Faith and Facts
28. Obama’s “Economic Justice” Equals Socialism : Ft. Hard Knox
29. Jules Crittenden » Sky, Falling
30. House Rejects Bailout Package, Stocks Plunge « Musings of a Thoughtful Conservative
31. Pelosi Craps On Republicans = Bailout Bill Goes To The Crapper | BigMouthFrog
32. Cassy Fiano » Blogosphere round-up on the bailout
33. Scroll For Updates: Breaking:Bailout bill fails…Bitchlosi’s Words That Sealed Its Fate..Republicans Blames Bitchlosi, The Market Loses $1.1 Trillion In Value, She May Add ACORN Back In | Right Voices
34. Pelosi drives America off the cliff! « Riggword Weblog
35. University Blog
36. Celebrity Paycut - Encouraging celebrities all over the world to save us from global warming by taking a paycut.
37. Bailout Vote Fails | D.C. Thornton
38. Destroying the economy to win votes; Nancy Pelosi’s speech and Barack Obama’s rhetoric « Northern Thoughts And Reflections
39. What The Heck? The Bailout Failed? « Blog Entry « Dr. Melissa Clouthier
40. Right Wing News
41. Conservative Musings
42. The Bailout Dies in the House « Black Coffee & Bourbon
43. Congressman Ander Crenshaw Votes for the Bailout « Black Coffee & Bourbon
44. Bad Example
45. AFNonline » 2008 » October » 01
46. Don Surber » Blog Archive » Robin hoodwinked

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Comments

1. #475387
   On September 29th, 2008 at 3:53 pm, Cricket24 said:

   I think they will get something together tonight or tomorrow to get more votes so they can go home…that’s important!

2. #475394
   On September 29th, 2008 at 3:57 pm, mattsand said:

   J S Ragman said:
   For those of you tracking the Dow, it’s now down 714 points, or about 6.4%.

   573. Realtime tracking is your friend

3. #475397
   On September 29th, 2008 at 3:59 pm, vickisoup said:

   I hope you’re happy.

   Happy that we, the people, still have the power to influence the actions of our elected officials?
   Yer ding dang right, I’m happy.

4. #475400
   On September 29th, 2008 at 4:00 pm, AlohaGuy said:

   I found that yesterday my own dad was against the bailout, he was very skeptical whether the bailout will work at all…

   If it’s your dad paying for the trips to Switzerland and the multiple citizenships, I’d listen to him…

5. #475405
   On September 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pm, cheapseat said:

   yeah ragman, many of us are seeing our savings going down, but the tech bubble, the housing bubble, and this bubble were all brought about by get rich quick jerks who left others paying the tab. this time, although we’re paying part of the tab, the creators of the bubble will suffer also. unlike the dot com billionaires who became sports owners and politicians after turning their ponzi scheme into cash before the suckers realized the value of hot air was not worth more than the value of general motors

6. #475408
   On September 29th, 2008 at 4:03 pm, ex-expat said:

   J S Ragman said:
   …..I hope you’re happy.

   At least there are 2 of us whose peripheral vision is a bit broader.

   To make this a bit more intellecually disgestable: let’s say there is a small child, not quiet toliet trained, who has an ‘accident’ inside a home of outside in a mall, libraray, whathave you. Now the sensible thing would be not to stomp the feet, wave the fists in the air and shout about not doing anyting because its the child’s fault. The sensible thing, adult thing would be to help cleanup the mess and take steps to ensure such ‘accidents’ do not happen again.

7. #475409
   On September 29th, 2008 at 4:03 pm, fred5676 said:

   Breaking: It’s official. House rejects Trillion-Dollar-Plus Crap Sandwich

   I guess this means when I use ‘crap’ I won’t get banned???

   Great! Now I won’t have to use weasel words to describe the crap posing as legislation that Congress tries to (and too often does) pass.

   I may vote for this Dem. Congress critter.

8. #475413
   On September 29th, 2008 at 4:05 pm, RedRepub said:

   WOW!

   Yarmuth (D-KY) owner of the Moonbat free newspaper “The Louisville Eccentric Observer” voted “No”! (No doubt trying to keep his nemesis Anne Northup at bay.)

   Maybe it’s safe to move back!

   Meanwhile, my Congressman , Rahm “You people better not ask us for anything ever again” Emanuel votes “Yes”. His brother is Michael Moore’s agent, which guarantees Rahm will be in Congress for life.

9. #475415
   On September 29th, 2008 at 4:06 pm, mattsand said:

   On September 29th, 2008 at 4:03 pm, ex-expat said:
   J S Ragman said:
   …..I hope you’re happy.
   At least there are 2 of us whose peripheral vision is a bit broader.

   To make this a bit more intellecually disgestable: let’s say there is a small child, not quiet toliet trained, who has an ‘accident’ inside a home of outside in a mall, libraray, whathave you. Now the sensible thing would be not to stomp the feet, wave the fists in the air and shout about not doing anyting because its the child’s fault. The sensible thing, adult thing would be to help cleanup the mess and take steps to ensure such ‘accidents’ do not happen again.

   Yes, because small children and the global economy are EXACTLY the same.

10. #475420
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:08 pm, maisy said:

    I can’t believe Delahunt got it right and voted NO…..maybe he fell down and hit his head!

11. #475421
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:08 pm, nyc123me said:

    look up the word ‘analogy’ mattsand.

12. #475424
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:09 pm, southsideironworks said:

    Congressman Jesse Jackson JR, who voted Nay to the bailout, tries to blame it all on Bush

    http://jessejacksonjr.org/issues/i0929087749.html

13. #475425
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:09 pm, mattsand said:

    look up oversimplification. Once an analogy oversimplifies to that degree, it simply loses all possible meaning.

14. #475428
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:10 pm, fmfnavydoc said:

    NOT IT’S TIME TO FLUSH THE TOILET IN DC AND GET THE FLOATING TURDS OUT… anyone who voted yes of this steaming pile of crap, needs to be “retired” from their seat in the House on November 4th…they don’t represent us, they don’t care about us – they’re only concern is for their friends on Wall Street…you failed to act on it 2,3 ,5 years ago – now it’s time to pay!

    The SECOND American Revolution starts TODAY!

15. #475430
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pm, Salukidog said:

    Thank you GOD…remember the ones with the most to lose on the stock market are the fat cats who stole the $ to begin with. We know that we are going down and I say lets take them with us! Any one with an e-mail address for one of the good guys that I can thank? Unfortunatly I am from Illinois and they do not exist here. All of the voice mail boxes seem to not be taking messages.

16. #475432
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:13 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

    From an article on CNN about the failure of the legislation:

    And one Democratic aide said, “we delivered our votes. They did not deliver theirs.”

    There was no mention that 40% of Democrats voted against it…

17. #475433
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:13 pm, vickisoup said:

    I know, mattsand; what was THAT all about??

18. #475435
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:16 pm, nyc123me said:

    When (if) the economy completely collapses and we’re all living in cardboard boxes with no job, no food, no hope, standing 12 hours in line for a bowl of thin broth, I wonder how many of you will be abusing the ‘representatives’ for voting NO to this bill, instead of praising them as you are now. Most of you, I imagine. I think most of you just don’t believe it can happen. You’ve lived your entire lives in this country and have no idea what it is like to live in a country that does not have the freedoms you enjoy, or the prosperity. I hope to God you don’t have to find out.

19. #475438
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:18 pm, oldcollegeguy1980 said:

    Pelosi failed

    The bill failed.

    The dems are not as powerful as they thought they were.

    Even dems who know the political price they would have to pay inside their own house voted against this.

    Pelosi is a failure.

20. #475439
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:18 pm, vickisoup said:

    I actually heard someone complaining this a.m. that “oil was down again due to the uncertainty of the demand”, as they were lamenting the current crisis.
    Uh….I thought the formula was, “Oil Up = Bad; Oil Down = Good”.
    I can’t keep up.

21. #475440
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:18 pm, conservativesRus said:

    I’ve not read all the comments (work interferes) but could somebody tell me what the title of the bill has to do with the actual contents of the bill?

22. #475441
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:18 pm, nuss said:

    I’ve read this entire thread and many other comments from a wide range of people, including MM. The most striking thing about the hundreds of opinions that I’ve heard or read is that no one makes a solid case for or against the bailout, based on logic or first principles. Its not enough to simply say its bad or good. The only argument I’ve heard is that it is illegal or unconstitutional. But even this is just an assertion. The argument that the bailout is contra capitalism and too socialistic may be true, but it doesn’t answer my question, which is: what would be the consequences of a bailout?

23. #475442
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:19 pm, vickisoup said:

    Most of you, I imagine. I think most of you just don’t believe it can happen. You’ve lived your entire lives in this country and have no idea what it is like to live in a country that does not have the freedoms you enjoy, or the prosperity. I hope to God you don’t have to find out.

    You’re right. Vote McCain/Palin, so we don’t have to find out.

24. #475443
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:19 pm, PhredE said:

    I’m watching CNBC’s coverage of this, and, geez, talk about a ‘mouthpiece for Wall Street’.

    Apologists area blaming the ‘most vocal part of the public that regularly contacts their elected officials, …’ .

    Nowhere, so far, have I heard them say the simple truth: most Americans do not support it – plain and simple. While many people have diverse reasons for not supporting it – and I totally understand, although may not agree with them – the truth that most Americans do not think this particular bill is the ‘answer’ cannot be faced by the MSNBC reporting/commentary crew.

    Now I suddenly recall why I invariably choose to skip this channel when looking for news on cable…

25. #475444
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:19 pm, mpChops said:

    Thank you GOD…remember the ones with the most to lose on the stock market are the fat cats who stole the $ to begin with.

    This is simply untrue. If these “fat cats” lose 50% of their net worth, they’ll be inconvenienced, and probably will suffer a life-style change. If the average investor loses 50% of their net worth, they will certainly suffer a lifestyle change. Who will ultimately be more screwed?

26. #475446
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:20 pm, Salukidog said:

    Well knock me over with a feather Illinois had 7 Reps vote no ( I don’t count Jesse Jackson Jr as Obama has rebuffed his dad. I will start my thankyous now

27. #475455
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:23 pm, PhredE said:

    ConservativesRus –
    

    I’ve not read all the comments (work interferes) but could somebody tell me what the title of the bill has to do with the actual contents of the bill?

    Yes, that is essentially true. It is because (well, have a strong hunch)… that to add a simple amendment to an existing bill already in the legislative pipeline, allows much faster bringing to the floor/debate and vote.

    The old analogy about sausage being made rings true… for a reason.

28. #475456
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:23 pm, oldcollegeguy1980 said:

    I like soup and beans.

    And I make a mean pone of Corn Bread in my ole black cast iron skillet.

    Threats of soup lines do not scare me.

    This is America. Land of the Free, home of the Brave.

    Threats of discomfort are not enough for me to sell out.

29. #475463
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:24 pm, ex-expat said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pm, Salukidog said:
    …remember the ones with the most to lose on the stock market are the fat cats who stole the $ to begin with.

    No, you are wrong. Tjose who willloose the most willbe those whose income rests with 401ks, reverse mortages or pensions.

    I hope you are dependent on none of these for your living nor in six months time or so, are not unemployed because your employer could no longer afford to keep you and other employed, because companies x, z & r could not keep their employees employed, became companies 3 g & Q could not……

30. #475465
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:24 pm, vickisoup said:

    mpchops, investments can be made in risky ways or in safe ways. Everyone has the responsibility to manage their own investments to avoid bankrupting themselves if something bad happens. I moved my meager 401k funds into the lowest risk possible a few weeks back when things were looking bad, so I’ve lost less than 5% of my silly little portfolio. We have to stay informed of our own financial situation, no matter how small.
    I understand your point and agree that a billionaire that loses half a billion still has another half a billion, and that most of us would be injured far worse.
    I still don’t get why that’s other people’s responsibility to fix, which is why I oppose the bailout.

31. #475466
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:24 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    vickisoup,

    …edumacate…

    Do you know L-Dub?

32. #475468
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:25 pm, PhredE said:

    To follow on my most recent post…

    The answer to the question is – there is little specific relation to the bill it was attached to (other than it was also a fiscal-oriented appropriations – IIRC)

33. #475471
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:26 pm, mpChops said:

    Threats of discomfort are not enough for me to sell out.

    These are the most entertaining kind of comments. They are usually uttered by those that have never experienced anything close to what they describe.

    It’s easy to be fearless of something that you truly don’t believe you’ll have to deal with.

34. #475472
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:26 pm, WarEagle82 said:

    A classic example of how you can do the “right thing” for “all the wrong reasons.”

    I see Jesse Jr. is as stupid as his old man.

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:09 pm, southsideironworks said:
    Congressman Jesse Jackson JR, who voted Nay to the bailout, tries to blame it all on Bush

    http://jessejacksonjr.org/issues/i0929087749.html

35. #475473
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:27 pm, nyc123me said:

    Mattsand, FYI: DOW suffers biggest point drop in history – falling 777 points. NASDAQ dropped more than 9%, S&P 500 nearly 9%, same with CDNX (Canada). What’s worse is that the bulk of the foreign markets had closed before this was announced! I would not be at all surprised to see the markets here being closed tomorrow. ‘Hiccup’? I think not.
    Enjoy your cake, I hope it was worth it.

36. #475474
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:27 pm, vickisoup said:

    Homer Simpson is my mentor, ITookTheRedPill.
    

37. #475475
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:27 pm, cicerokid said:

    Nuss said this in post #306 “The argument that the bailout is contra capitalism and too socialistic may be true, but it doesn’t answer my question, which is: what would be the consequences of a bailout?”

    Uhhhh, socialism?

    emphasis mine.

38. #475477
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:28 pm, right4life said:

    You’ve lived your entire lives in this country and have no idea what it is like to live in a country that does not have the freedoms you enjoy, or the prosperity.

    yeah and defeating this bill helps A GREAT DEAL to keep the country this way.

    When (if) the economy completely collapses and we’re all living in cardboard boxes with no job, no food, no hope,

    I will NEVER have ‘no hope’ because my hope is in Jesus not the government. you should take this opportunity to see where your hope lies, because obviously your hope is in the temporal, not the eternal.

39. #475480
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:29 pm, J S Ragman said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 3:57 pm, mattsand said:

    573. Realtime tracking is your friend

    I’m not here to quibble over what time you got your quote. What matters to mutual fund investors, which is most households, is the closing price. Looking back to the all-time highs of a year ago, the Dow and S&P 500 are down about 28%. I guess that’ll show those Wall Street bigshots.

40. #475484
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:30 pm, uhangtight said:

    nuss, you would think that it being unconstitutional would be enough. this bill gives the secretary of the treasury more power than any other secretary, as a matter of fact the power given is just about equal to that of the legislature, supreme court and president. this guy is not an elected official but an appointment by bush. now, if that doesn’t give you pause, how about the fact that this bill does not address the root cause. it is a throwing good money after bad and that is just not a smart way of handling your money. do you need some more reasons why this is a bad bill? okay.. how about the fact that the bill specifically states that those culpable will not suffer legal action and get a get out of jail free card? is that not enough reasons this was a bad bill? well, believe it or not, there are more reasons. but these were the reasons that stick out in my mind at the moment.

    yeah, the upside is that oil is down and dropping lower than ever. the oil barons “opec” will lose more money today than ever before!! Whoo Hoo..

    this means that low oil costs will turn the economy around, too. looks like leaving things alone may work better than letting big government get their hands (the hands that caused the mess no less) in the pie to fix the mix. now giving us arsenic pie to eat for desert!

41. #475485
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:31 pm, vickisoup said:

    nyc123me said:
    FYI: DOW suffers biggest point drop in history – falling 777 points.

    According to Reuters:
    * October 29, 1929: The Dow Jones Industrial Average, falls more than 11 percent on “Black Tuesday”, with a record volume of 16 million shares traded. It does not surpass the 1929 average again until 1954.

    * October 19, 1987: The Dow Jones index drops 22.6 percent, falling 508 points to 1,738.74 on “Black Monday”, the biggest one-day drop in stock market history. Volume surges to an unprecedented 604 million shares, reaching 608 million shares the next day.

    * October 27 1997: The Asian financial crash spurs a global selloff; the Dow Jones index slumps 7.2 percent, or 554 points, in its biggest single-day points drop. The NYSE’s “circuit-breaker” is triggered for the first time to halt trading at 3:30 p.m.

    * April 14, 2000: The Dow drops 5.6 percent, or 617 points — a new steepest point decline in a single day.

42. #475486
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:31 pm, PhredE said:

    To address Nuss’ concerns/questions –

    The big question I’d offer in response is: How do you know doing said ‘bailout’ is actually going to help the situation? It is presumed that it will – but does anyone know???

    My reason to oppose it is based on the simple premise that corporate welfare is wrong – plain and simple. The recipients of said bailout are persons that have higher than mean net worth/annual salaries, while the ‘average taxpayer’ earns and/or is ‘worth’ much less. This particular bailout amounts to the poor subsidizing the ‘rich’.

43. #475487
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:32 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pm, Salukidog said:
    Thank you GOD…remember the ones with the most to lose on the stock market are the fat cats who stole the $ to begin with. We know that we are going down and I say lets take them with us! Any one with an e-mail address for one of the good guys that I can thank? Unfortunatly I am from Illinois and they do not exist here. All of the voice mail boxes seem to not be taking messages.

    I am not in favor of a bail-out. But I hope they can come up with something to help the market. My husband and I are retired, living on SS and our investments. We HAD enough to last many years. Now we don’t. Our biggest problem is that we no longer have any earning power and are too old to get jobs. That is why we saved for 40 years…to retire in comfort. We were well off, but not rich by most standards. We planned to travel a bit, maybe do a little remodeling of the house, maybe even build a cabin on our property up north. Right now, I am concerned we may not have enough for food. So, I do understand the very frightening aspects of this whole thing. I believe a solution will be reached that is more acceptable to the people of this country. We were on the brink of socialism. Now, maybe something better for this country will be worked out. Those of us who believe in prayer, are doing our part to help.

44. #475491
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:35 pm, vickisoup said:

    happyscrapper, the American people will turn this around, and I wish you and your husband good health and lots of years of wonderful enjoyment in your retirement. Stay hopeful; it will be OK.

45. #475497
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:37 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    When (if) the economy completely collapses and we’re all living in cardboard boxes with no job, no food, no hope, standing 12 hours in line for a bowl of thin broth, I wonder how many of you will be abusing the ‘representatives’ for voting NO to this bill, instead of praising them as you are now. Most of you, I imagine. I think most of you just don’t believe it can happen. You’ve lived your entire lives in this country and have no idea what it is like to live in a country that does not have the freedoms you enjoy, or the prosperity. I hope to God you don’t have to find out.

    I’ll happily live in a cardboard box and eat ramen if it means I don’t leave my children slaves to a fascist ruling class.

    I’ll gladly teach my children that freedom comes with responsibility.

    I’ll be proud to show my kids that big failures are really only small setbacks.

    And I’d love to tell my kids that the government isn’t their Mommy.

46. #475498
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:37 pm, nyc123me said:

    @ Vickisoup: yes, thanks for the stats.. like I said, 777 points is the biggest point drop in history.

    @ right4life: defeating this bill may well be the nails in the coffin. Collapse may have happened anyway, but at least we would have had a chance at averting it.. not any more.

    I see no reason to celebrate the demise of the USA.

47. #475499
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:38 pm, LC said:

    DOW suffers biggest point drop in history – falling 777 points.

    A sign from God that we’ve done the right thing?

48. #475500
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:38 pm, Salukidog said:

    #313 Ex-Pat You are wrong..I am retired on a pension not ss and stand to lose it all and live in an area with no jobs..I still choose to try to retain the american way of life for my grandkids..besides I grew up dirt poor know how to garden & am starting to raise chickens,, and was not dumb enuf to get a mortgage I could not afford..its paid off. So try again

49. #475501
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:39 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    I am not in favor of a bail-out. But I hope they can come up with something to help the market. My husband and I are retired, living on SS and our investments. We HAD enough to last many years. Now we don’t. Our biggest problem is that we no longer have any earning power and are too old to get jobs. That is why we saved for 40 years…to retire in comfort.

    If you’re retired, you shouldn’t have had much money in the stock market. Go crab at your investment advisor.

50. #475503
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:39 pm, oldcollegeguy1980 said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:26 pm, mpChops said:

    Threats of discomfort are not enough for me to sell out.

    These are the most entertaining kind of comments. They are usually uttered by those that have never experienced anything close to what they describe.

    It’s easy to be fearless of something that you truly don’t believe you’ll have to deal with.

    As easy as it is to stand around and wring ones hands. Isn’t it?

51. #475504
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:40 pm, smfoushee said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:27 pm, nyc123me said:
    Mattsand, FYI: DOW suffers biggest point drop in history – falling 777 points. NASDAQ dropped more than 9%, S&P 500 nearly 9%, same with CDNX (Canada). What’s worse is that the bulk of the foreign markets had closed before this was announced! I would not be at all surprised to see the markets here being closed tomorrow. ‘Hiccup’? I think not.
    Enjoy your cake, I hope it was worth it.

    You need to take a couple of Advil, get in a quick nap and calm down. 777 points from a start of around 11000 is what, 7%? Big whoop. The naysayers were stating all weekend that we’d loose nearly 30% of the market today if this failed…

    7% != 30%

    Let the market fix this by allowing the market to actually function. Remove the meddlesome government from the market and things will work out for the better. Some of you seem to think the economic pie in this country is finite, and if these institutions go under that is all, no one will be there to pick up the pieces or make another pie. Give me a break!

    Did you see what the market did to WaMu and Wachovia? That is how Wall St. will fix this mess. Will ever firm and bank survive? No. However, we’ll be better off without the majority of the bad paper the government created floating around the financial institutions.

    Government is the problem here, not the solution. Let them fail, capitalists wanting to make a buck will pick up the pieces and be productive.

52. #475505
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:40 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    DOW suffers biggest point drop in history – falling 777 points.

    Not even in the top 10 list of percentage drops though.

53. #475506
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:41 pm, right4life said:

    @ right4life: defeating this bill may well be the nails in the coffin. Collapse may have happened anyway, but at least we would have had a chance at averting it.. not any more.

    I’m sorry I disagree, I think this would have collapsed the economy, there may have been a short term boost, but thats it. the bill does not fix the underlying problems, which are too much regulation (CRA SOX) and just adds more. you would alleviate the correction to end up with decades of stagnant growth. I remember the 1970s…don’t want to see it again. oh yeah we had wage and price controls…whip inflation now…it was all a joke until reagan came along, and it took a severe recession to fix high interest rates, and stagflation.

    whats really wrong is the government, and until thats fixed, nothing will help it.

54. #475511
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:43 pm, uhangtight said:

    right4life, you are right. prayer works and faith in Jesus. He is where my stability lies not on some market or congress critter in DC. He is my hope eternal. i do not think the doom and gloom of soup lines is upon us. besides, i have a gun, i can go and hunt to make sure i can eat. i have lived on couches to survive as a single mom with limited income. i have been without the temperal things, but Jesus was there to take care of me, despite my failings. now, i am blessed beyond my dreams, and God will make sure i am provided for, he is my provider. i guess if i were nyc123 believing in big government to provide my security and survival i’d be a littel depressed, too.

    I don’t thinkt his bill would fix anything. i think the reason things are in the tank, is that the price of oil (this is the backbone of our economy) was way to high. speculators and opec created a bubble that needed to be burst. lucky for US it hit a couple of things while it was at it, the price of homes and the price of oil. take that Putin, Chavez, and Ahmadinejad!

55. #475512
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:44 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:35 pm, vickisoup said:
    happyscrapper, the American people will turn this around, and I wish you and your husband good health and lots of years of wonderful enjoyment in your retirement. Stay hopeful; it will be OK.

    Thanks, vickisoup! I am definitely hopeful and it helps to have the comments from the wonderful people on this blog. Most of you are very optomistic people and keep things in perspective. Except for lgm, of course.

56. #475514
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:44 pm, nyc123me said:

    “the American people will turn this around”
    It’s the American people who got us here. Stop blaming politicians or a few ‘fat cat’ CEO’s – it is the greed of the American public that drive or enable these things – if there were no people signing these mortgages it never would have happened. If there were no people investing in the highest performing stocks, or investing by proxy via retirement plans, then these CEO’s would not have been forced to take bigger and bigger risks to keep their profits (and thus returns to shareholders) at a competitive level. Blame mortgage brokers and real estate agents and banks, blame your neighbors and family. Now ask yourself – should you be relying on people who put you in the crap to get you back out?

57. #475519
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:45 pm, vickisoup said:

    nyc123me , Dude, I know it’s scary, but I think you should calm down.
    11 percent (1929) is more than 6.98 percent. 22.6 (in 1987) percent is more than 6.98 percent.
    Scarier than losing money is losing freedom. Today, freedom and democracy were big winners, perhaps GAINING more points than any other day in history. Well, OK. That’s hyperbole as to the point gain, but we gotta keep this in perspective.

58. #475520
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:46 pm, ex-expat said:

    Salukidog said:
    #313 Ex-Pat You are wrong… So try again

    It is not a matter of ‘trying again’, rather to point out that first ‘fat cats’ may stand to lose much in this, but more than that, many, many other ’smaller people’ could lose everything they have or are counting on, as you point out in your own case. Some poepel such as yourself may have re resoucres and resilency to cope if the worst happens. But I would say many could not and notout of any personal shortcomuings on their part. Should all ‘go to hell in a handbasket’ I doubt you’ll or anyone else will be able to retain, let alone live ‘The American Way’.

59. #475522
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:47 pm, oldcollegeguy1980 said:

    It is not the “American People” which brought us here.

    It is liberals.

    Liberal Policies.

    Liberal Politicians.

    And yes some wobbly-Kneed Republicans.

    Not the “American People”

60. #475524
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:47 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    MarcoPolo and right4life,
    Good comments. I agree with what you’ve said.

    Government is the problem. Not enough people understand how government mandates helped create the problem. The solution is not more government intervention, but rather less. Repeal CRA and SOX. Repeal the 16th amendment and the IRS, and institute the Fair Tax. Repeal the bans on offshore drilling, oil shale, and ANWR.

    Our economy will be doing great if we get the communist bureaucracy out of the way!

61. #475525
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:48 pm, uhangtight said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:38 pm, LC said:
    DOW suffers biggest point drop in history – falling 777 points.
    A sign from God that we’ve done the right thing

    LOL.. I was thinking the same thing!! God is in Control.. don’t ever forget.. that is the final Word.

62. #475526
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:48 pm, right4life said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:43 pm, uhangtight

    Amen! great testimony. I too have lived through some dark times, but the Lord has delivered me from the darkness..

63. #475527
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:48 pm, nyc123me said:

    “the bill does not fix the underlying problems, which are too much regulation”
    What?? Weren’t you just saying a day ago the problem was there wasn’t enough regulation and someone should have been monitoring these things and putting a stop to what was happening.. Holy…

64. #475529
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:48 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:39 pm, MarcoPolo said:
    If you’re retired, you shouldn’t have had much money in the stock market. Go crab at your investment advisor.

    Thanks for your very compassionate advice. We do have a diversified portfolio. But thanks for caring.

65. #475530
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:49 pm, flenser said:

    If there were no people investing in the highest performing stocks, or investing by proxy via retirement plans, then these CEO’s would not have been forced to take bigger and bigger risks to keep their profits (and thus returns to shareholders) at a competitive level.

    Yeah, I blame the sort of people who threw their money into risky real estate stocks instead of saving it wisely in bonds or CD’s or T-bills.

66. #475531
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:49 pm, 30 pcs of silver said:

    Do you all think Dems want this thing to pass? I mean their position has been that if the economy is bad it plays to Obama’s strength and they get to usher in a new era of socialism (that’s not what they said but that’s what they will do). I have mixed feelings about this.

67. #475533
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:49 pm, right4life said:

    Our economy will be doing great if we get the communist bureaucracy out of the way!

    thats for sure!! I remember coming out the 70s into the 80s…it was like a new age dawned, things were so much better. it seems like we’re repeating the 70s now…

68. #475534
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:50 pm, 30 pcs of silver said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 2:41 pm, ajmontana said:
    17%approval rating…. and dropping faster than the DOW.

    I agree with Michelle on siezing the moment for victory, but it was sweet hearing them call Pelosi a failure for the past year… sweet as a 30 pcs pecan pie…. oh wait I haven’t had one of those yet. lmao

    Ha! You’re relentless!

69. #475535
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:50 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    We’ve won the battle, but not the war yet. The Democratic Socialists will come back again, possibly with an even worse bill.

    Stay vigilant and keep praying.

70. #475536
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm, flenser said:

    Where in the world is Barack Obama? He was not in evidence at all, either pro or con.

71. #475537
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm, right4life said:

    What?? Weren’t you just saying a day ago the problem was there wasn’t enough regulation and someone should have been monitoring these things and putting a stop to what was happening.. Holy…

    not me…you must have me confused with someone else. my idea of the perfect government is modeled on ancient israel, before the kings….

    as they said in the revolution, no king but Jesus…

72. #475538
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm, oldcollegeguy1980 said:

    Force Barney Frank and Chris Dodd to step down from their house committees.

    That should be step one.

73. #475541
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm, uhangtight said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:44 pm, nyc123me said:

    You’re wrong. This was caused by CRA and the expansion provided by Clinton in 93, before repubs had congress. This was caused by affirmative action in the mortgage industry, a dismal failure i might add. this is not because of the fat cats, there were plenty hands in the brew of failures, all of them just as caulpable: Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and Chuck Schumer and their lack of oversight on Fannie and Freddie, where they decided to privatize the profits while socializing the risks. this is where it all lies not on the ‘predatory’ lendors. how stupid can one person be?

74. #475542
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pm, Mooseman said:

    I honestly don’t understand this bill in the least. Is there a Dummies version out there for those of us without degrees in economics or finance?

75. #475543
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pm, smfoushee said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:44 pm, nyc123me said:
    “the American people will turn this around”
    It’s the American people who got us here. Stop blaming politicians or a few ‘fat cat’ CEO’s – it is the greed of the American public that drive or enable these things – if there were no people signing these mortgages it never would have happened. If there were no people investing in the highest performing stocks, or investing by proxy via retirement plans, then these CEO’s would not have been forced to take bigger and bigger risks to keep their profits (and thus returns to shareholders) at a competitive level. Blame mortgage brokers and real estate agents and banks, blame your neighbors and family. Now ask yourself – should you be relying on people who put you in the crap to get you back out?

    You really have no idea how all of this took place, do you? Do you think that banks want to be in the business of making loans to people that, on paper, can’t pay them back? Where is the profit in that? How can “fat cat CEOs” sate their inner greed on bad paper loans that will default?

    Open your eyes a bit, the government (both parties hold blame) interfered with the free market on the basis of “fairness.” Bad credit Americans wanted that home with the white picket fence, and even though their bad decisions and failed financial responsibility put them in a position where no lending institution would take the risk of loaning them money, they cried to government to intervene on their behalf. Fannie and Freddie were born and politicians along with “community organizers” began putting pressure on lending institutions to make high risk, or sub-prime, loans to people that would never pay them back.

    Trying to “fix” a problem because they care about the little people, who incidentally screwed themselves out of the market in the first place, got us here today. Trying to fix this result with more government intervention is like trying trying to keep the titanic from sinking by backing into another iceberg to even out the flow of water.

76. #475545
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:53 pm, vickisoup said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm, flenser said:
    Where in the world is Barack Obama? He was not in evidence at all, either pro or con.

    flenser, are you kidding? He’s been crowing all weekend about being the idea-man behind this now-failed bill. I’m sure he’s trying to figure out how to get himself out of this political mess, particularly since Pelosi and her minions have no credibility anymore.

77. #475546
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:53 pm, oldcollegeguy1980 said:

    Correction make Dodd step down from his Senate committee.

    Frank from his house committee

    Typing to fast causes mistakes

    And Michelle does not have an edit function

78. #475548
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:54 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:48 pm,
    

    nyc123me said:
    “the bill does not fix the underlying problems, which are too much regulation”
    What?? Weren’t you just saying a day ago the problem was there wasn’t enough regulation and someone should have been monitoring these things and putting a stop to what was happening.. Holy…

    This is getting extremely annoying. This is what it is. Deal with it. And please stop with the DOW play by play. We know what is happening. You definitely need to take a chill pill…or take a break from this blog.

79. #475549
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:54 pm, nyc123me said:

    Vickysoup, I think the worse is yet to come when the overseas markets open.. 777 points lost this afternoon is, I believe, peanuts compared to what may happen tomorrow. I hope I am wrong though, and I hope you are right.

    uhangtight, living on a couch is not a hard time – that is relative luxury for some. Try having no income, no prospect of income, living on a dirt floor week after week with a thin blanket to cover you on cold nights. I’ve been there – not in this country though. That’s not the half of it. You’d be a lot more concerned if you knew what may really be coming..

80. #475550
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:54 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:49 pm, 30 pcs of silver said:

    Do you all think Dems want this thing to pass? I mean their position has been that if the economy is bad it plays to Obama’s strength and they get to usher in a new era of socialism (that’s not what they said but that’s what they will do). I have mixed feelings about this.

    George Soros and his ilk want to make the economy issue #1 in the election, so they will do their best to make it bad, EVEN IF A BILL PASSES. The bill won’t fix anything, it will only give the Socialists MORE power.

    It’s no surprise that the MSM (like Time Magazine’s cover story a while back) were telling everyone “The Economy is Issue #1″ long before it was…they were pre-programming people.

81. #475553
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:56 pm, spackle said:

    I am shocked. SHOCKED!! My Socialist congressman voted no! If he voted no it must REALLY have been a s**t sandwich.

82. #475555
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:56 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm, flenser said:
    Where in the world is Barack Obama? He was not in evidence at all, either pro or con.

    He is farting in the wind and waiting to see which way it blows.

83. #475558
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:57 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm, oldcollegeguy1980 said:

    Force Barney Frank and Chris Dodd to step down from their house committees.

    That should be step one.

    I second that motion. There is no excuse for their past or present behavior. They helped create the problem, and now blame and mock Republicans. They are some of the worst of the worst. Kick ‘em out!

84. #475560
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:57 pm, oldcollegeguy1980 said:

    Try having no income, no prospect of income, living on a dirt floor week after week with a thin blanket to cover you on cold nights. I’ve been there – not in this country though. That’s not the half of it.

    I may frame this post.

    It could be the single funniest post I have ever read.

85. #475563
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:59 pm, right4life said:

    You’re wrong. This was caused by CRA and the expansion provided by Clinton in 93

    trust me I know what, and WHO is coming…very dark times for those who are not His….

    When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand.

    And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”

    Revelation 6:5-6

86. #475564
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:59 pm, Salukidog said:

    Sorry Ex Pat…you are obviously very scared…trust me you can do it and it is a great feeling when you take your own future into your own hands. Remember how great people come together after a natural disaster…we will all pull together …no way it will be as bad as the American Revolution that our founding fathers were willing to go through to give us this freedom. Besides we always first and foremost have GOD and his son Jesus at his right hand watching over us …Call on them if you need comfort I assure you they will respond.

87. #475565
    On September 29th, 2008 at 4:59 pm, oldcollegeguy1980 said:

    Thank You “ITTRP”

    Why this is not the rallying call for Republicans everywhere I cannot explain.

    I am going to again call all of reps and stress that single point.

    In case they did not get it the first time this morning.

88. #475566
    On September 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pm, vickisoup said:

    nyc123me, I know that the worst is yet to come. Heaven is not here. That, my friend, is something that we humans definitely can take the blame for.
    But our hope is not in things of this earth; it is in the eternal promise that is found only in Jesus Christ.
    I’m not making light of your concerns and your pain, truly I’m not. But I have dear friends who lived through the persecution and oppression of the former Soviet Union, and have heard of their suffering. As Christians, their hope was not in their government or in money, which their government wouldn’t let them have, anyway. It is why they could handle anything that would come their way, and why I know that we’ll be OK, also. It is when we stop depending upon our government and our money that we are truly free.

89. #475568
    On September 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pm, Dasher said:

    Maybe now they can come up with a bill that makes some sense; End Sarbanes-Oxley, end Community Reinvestment Act, sell off assets of Fannie and Freddie, capital gains tax reduction (zero percent), lower corporate taxes by 10 or 15 percent, and provide some bailout relief but not by Paulson. < he would just help out his buddies.

90. #475570
    On September 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pm, nyc123me said:

    @ ldcollegeguy1980 : exactly what in hell is so funny about it? You’ve clearly not been in that position. It is not pleasant. Again, in case you missed it, it was not in the USA. I think it’s despicable to laugh at others misfortune – do you make fun of children dieing of starvation in places like Ethiopia? Unbelievable. I don’t think I can read any more of this.

91. #475573
    On September 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pm, nyc123me said:

    Thanks for your words Vickisoup.

92. #475575
    On September 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pm, uhangtight said:

    nyc123, i’ve lived in my car before, too, does that count? of course, i own my car outright, and it is all paid for part of being a wise steward of God’s money. i know what is coming, i’ve been watching markets and economy for many years. and as i said, i have had tough times before, and of course there are those in this world that have had it worse, but you missed the point of my comments, my Faith is in Christ. Jehovah Jira, God My Provider, not man, not government and not certainly based in fear. you have a spirit of fear, that i personally have rejected many years ago. as many years as you are probably aged, i might add, your immaturity shows. get a grip, get God and relax, but if not continue on your pity party and fear mongering path. Either way, I will be on top and not have to worry because God is in Control.