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1. Scaring the public? How did they decide that the correct number was $700 billion? at The Liberty Preservation Alliance
2. Nobody asked me, but....
3. FIRE Mr. Paulson CONFLICT OF INTEREST For Looters « Mcnorman’s Weblog
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Comments

1. #474537
   On September 29th, 2008 at 11:48 am, et said:

   Yes I would. Its also why jail time should be in everyone involved future.

2. #474538
   On September 29th, 2008 at 11:48 am, Rogue Cheddar said:

   Tastes great! Less filling!
   No trans fats!

3. #474539
   On September 29th, 2008 at 11:49 am, Wellsy said:

   “It’s not based on any particular data point,” a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. “We just wanted to choose a really large number.”

   Journalism is dead. Democracy is dead. This nation is toast. I have never felt so pessimistic as I do today. Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln are weeping for us.

4. #474540
   On September 29th, 2008 at 11:49 am, 30 pcs of silver said:

   Guesstimates. Whodathunkit.

5. #474545
   On September 29th, 2008 at 11:51 am, Ilovemycountry said:

   This is what happens when you vote for Bush

6. #474546
   On September 29th, 2008 at 11:51 am, b-cat said:

   I’m betting the figure is still too small.

7. #474547
   On September 29th, 2008 at 11:51 am, iamsaved said:

   Democrats are expert at creating a problem and blaming the Republicans for the failure while at the same time, if they accidently come up with something successful, are great at taking all the credit.

   Sure wish the Republicans would learn to return the favor(s) in kind but understand it’s difficult when the MSM is in the tank for the other side.

8. #474548
   On September 29th, 2008 at 11:52 am, right4life said:

   lets engineer a ‘crisis’ and then have the guvming save us, hallelujah!!

   get in line for mark of obediance..

9. #474549
   On September 29th, 2008 at 11:52 am, b-cat said:

   On September 29th, 2008 at 11:51 am, Ilovemycountry said:
   This is what happens when you vote for Bush

   Agreed. No more liberals.

10. #474550
    On September 29th, 2008 at 11:53 am, huhwhat said:

    So what do we call this mess, SWAGGATE? (Scientific Wild A$$ Guess)

11. #474558
    On September 29th, 2008 at 11:57 am, right4life said:

    guvming should be guvmint…getting old…

12. #474559
    On September 29th, 2008 at 11:57 am, ajmontana said:

    A craptastic bill written buy crapweasels. Time to bag the crap and mail it to Congress, bag your poo and send it to Washington. Today!

    I am aj and approve this message.

13. #474560
    On September 29th, 2008 at 11:57 am, ajmontana said:

    *by

14. #474562
    On September 29th, 2008 at 11:59 am, NJ-Aviator said:

    “It’s not based on any particular data point,” a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. “We just wanted to choose a really large number.”

    They made it up to be sufficiently ginormous to frighten everyone into rapid action.

    And it worked.

    –Andrew Malcolm

    I wrote in another thread… you get an animal into a trap by scaring him enough to think it’s the only way out.

    Welcome my fellow animals… to the trap.

15. #474565
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:01 pm, NJ-Aviator said:

    Ilovemycountry said:

    This is what happens when you vote for Bush

    Oh please shut up.

    This is what happens when Progressives in Congress pressure company’s like Coutrywide to give loans to people that can’t afford them. Bush is complicit, but nowhere near as to blame as the Dems and spineless RINO’s in Congress.

16. #474566
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:01 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    Morons fiddle.

17. #474567
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:02 pm, Flyoverman said:

    If it feels like a used car lot, walk away.

    And it does….

18. #474569
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:03 pm, sonofdy said:

    Ilovemycountry: Actualy this is what happens when you run a country on credit for 30 years. The bill eventualy comes due. But as to the dollar figure, it is probably closer to 2 trillion (my swag) and yet Obama wants to spend 800 billion MORE. Its time to pay the bills before we get into even more trouble. You can’t borrow your way out of debt.

19. #474570
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:03 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    Chucky Schumer pulled the same trick on Bush a mere five days after 9/11…

20. #474571
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:03 pm, tarpon said:

    Same place the idea to make mortgages to people who can’t repay them did … It’s they way liberalism works, don’t you know.

    When you look at the current crop of Democrat leaders and their candidate, don’t you just want to slap your forehead and exclaim — WOW, now I know why Communism failed.

21. #474574
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:04 pm, NJ-Aviator said:

    And while I’m on the subject…

    Ilovemycountry said:

    This is what happens when you vote for Bush

    Had we voted in Gore or Kerry, we’d also be getting blown up literally, in additional to blown up financially.

    Bush, as it turned out, was demonstrably the lesser of two evils.

22. #474575
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:04 pm, PhredE said:

    Wow, why am I not surprised???

    Hey, after all, it is “The best government money can buy…”
    …And that isn’t saying much.

    At times like this, the idea of summary arrests and show trials is almost palatable…

23. #474577
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:05 pm, sonofdy said:

    PhredE: If this keeps up we will not be able to afford the rope to hang them with.

24. #474578
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:06 pm, FilmLadd said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 11:51 am, Ilovemycountry said:

    This is what happens when you vote for Bush

    This is what happens when you are given the choice between kleptocrat collectivists (Obama, Kerry, Gore, Clinton, DuKaka, Mondale, Carter) and those who think a collectivist State can be run corruption free (Bush, Dole, Bush).

    We will be forced to take up arms, and by opposing end them all.

    Disce pati!

25. #474591
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:12 pm, John Ansell said:

    Why do I get the vision of some Austin Powers movie? Idiots

26. #474594
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:14 pm, expres12 said:

    Ready for a tax revolt???

    Everyone who is a W-2′d employee should change their withholding to $0. The only mandatory withholding is fica, everything else in control of the employee.

    The self employed should withhold their quarterly filings.

    Enough people do this and we send a message that will be heard.

27. #474595
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:14 pm, publiuswarmac9999 said:

    There are no successful socialist states and there have never been any. Nor will there be any in the future because such states inherently punish success and reward failure.

28. #474604
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:19 pm, SpeakEasy said:

    I am so sick, SICK, SICK of politicians treating my money as disposable income. What we need is a protest big enough to make them afraid of “we the people,” something very Boston Tea Party-ish but in todays terms.

    (Jodie Foster/Congress)”I lost! Well, no matter. I’ll just pretend I was playing with someone else’s money.”

    (Mel Gibso/Taxpayers) “That shouldn’t be very hard.”

    [Bonus points for movie reference]

29. #474605
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:20 pm, Flyoverman said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:06 pm, FilmLadd said:

    We will be forced to take up arms, and by opposing end them all.

    I am conservative somewhere to the right of Atilla the Hun. However, having taken an oath to support, protect, and defend the Constitution, “taking up arms” is a no go.

    Right or wrong the people who put them the weasels in D.C. are the majority. If you circumvent the majority you are worse than Obama’s Missouri brown shirts.

    We have the winning formula in the marketplace of ideas. We have to get out there and show people we do have the solution. We win when we create not a majority, but a plurality.

    When we start talking “taking up arms” we merely feed the libs stereotype of us. NOT RECOMMENDED

30. #474612
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:25 pm, PKAmmoTroop said:

    Jay Gould
    James Fisk
    Boss Tweed

    Our wall street tycoons and their pet congressmen learned their lessons well from history. Shame that we didn’t.

31. #474625
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:30 pm, AmericanPatriot said:

    Flyoverman, taking up arms to defend the Constitution is what I think was meant.
    We have few, if any, defenders in the government,now.
    Jefferson advocated the need for a Revolution every 20 years or so and we may be past due.

32. #474631
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:32 pm, vickisoup said:

    As one of only two people (out of 100+) who stood lonely in opposition to my own City’s efforts to socialize our community, I am pleased to say that we were able to convince the others that we must say, “No” to government handouts because the cost is far too high in the end.
    We told them that we were being lied to, the City was preying on their fears, and we were correct.
    Instead, the community members rebuffed the City’s help, we rallied together, raised the money we needed and we left the process free and clear, owing nobody anything. I was bloody and broken, but it was worth it.

    SOCIALISM IS NEVER THE ANSWER!!

33. #474646
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:37 pm, SpeakEasy said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:14 pm, expres12 said:
    Ready for a tax revolt???

    I suggested the same thing a while back and got chastised (by commenters) for inciting lawlessness. I was speaking of a slow-down, not a total withholding. I agree with you it could send a clear message if they have to fight for their pork.

34. #474660
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:43 pm, uhangtight said:

    i knew it. i knew it. paulson needs to be fillet’d. arrrghhgggh i am so angry! i am ready for a revolt or a civil war doesn’t matter need to follow through on the 2nd amendment and turn this government back to the people!

35. #474679
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:53 pm, Wayfaring Stranger said:

    lets engineer a ‘crisis’ and then have the guvming save us, hallelujah!!

    As I noted in another thread, this stinks of the Cloward-Piven Strategy of Orchestrated Crisis; as James Simpson states in his American Thinker article:
    

    In an earlier post, I noted the liberal record of unmitigated legislative disasters, the latest of which is now being played out in the financial markets before our eyes. Before the 1994 Republican takeover, Democrats had sixty years of virtually unbroken power in Congress – with substantial majorities most of the time. Can a group of smart people, studying issue after issue for years on end, with virtually unlimited resources at their command, not come up with a single policy that works? Why are they chronically incapable?

    Why?

    One of two things must be true. Either the Democrats are unfathomable idiots, who ignorantly pursue ever more destructive policies despite decades of contrary evidence, or they understand the consequences of their actions and relentlessly carry on anyway because they somehow benefit.

    I submit to you they understand the consequences. For many it is simply a practical matter of eliciting votes from a targeted constituency at taxpayer expense; we lose a little, they gain a lot, and the politician keeps his job. But for others, the goal is more malevolent – the failure is deliberate. Don’t laugh. This method not only has its proponents, it has a name: the Cloward-Piven Strategy. It describes their agenda, tactics, and long-term strategy.

    If this goes through, we are, as our hostess has stated repeatedly, screwed.

    God help us – Congress sure as he** won’t.

36. #474693
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:57 pm, Flyoverman said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:30 pm, AmericanPatriot said:
    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:43 pm, uhangtight said:

    This is a patriot….

    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:32 pm, vickisoup said:

    As one of only two people (out of 100+) who stood lonely in opposition to my own City’s efforts to socialize our community, I am pleased to say that we were able to convince the others that we must say, “No” to government handouts because the cost is far too high in the end.
    We told them that we were being lied to, the City was preying on their fears, and we were correct.
    Instead, the community members rebuffed the City’s help, we rallied together, raised the money we needed and we left the process free and clear, owing nobody anything. I was bloody and broken, but it was worth it.

37. #474698
    On September 29th, 2008 at 1:03 pm, FilmLadd said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:20 pm, Flyoverman said:

    We will be forced to take up arms, and by opposing end them all.

    I am conservative somewhere to the right of Atilla the Hun. However, having taken an oath to support, protect, and defend the Constitution, “taking up arms” is a no go.

    Tell me where this bailout (and all of the other collectivist atrocities past, present, and future) are allowed in the Constitution.

    Show me where Statist enslavement to causes contrary to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is in spirit with the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.

    If you can point it out to me, I’m with you. Otherwise, you may want to consider the possibility that your oath forces you into my line of thinking.

38. #474707
    On September 29th, 2008 at 1:09 pm, Wayfaring Stranger said:

    Right or wrong the people who put them the weasels in D.C. are the majority.

    If this were a democracy, you’d be correct.

    But the USA is not a democracy; it is a Constitutional republic. There is a huge difference, one that the Founding Father’s recognized.

    That’s why, whenever a minority group seeks some sort of “protection” under law, they appeal to the Constitution.

    What is going on now in the halls of Congress may well be un-Constitutional, as Todd F. Gaziano and Andrew M. Grossman write at The Heritage Foundation:
    

    As many have come to realize this week, there are some fundamental constitutional values at stake in the present debate. The Paulson proposal, and the several congressional proposals based upon it, raise substantial constitutional questions regarding: (1) Congress’s enumerated power—or lack thereof—to intervene with private markets in the manner contemplated, (2) the lack of meaningful standards to guide the extremely broad grant of discretion to the Treasury secretary (the “legislative delegation” problem), (3) limitations on judicial review over the exercise of that almost limitless discretion, and (4) related separation of powers concerns.

    From a constitutional standpoint, the current versions of the legislation are different in scope, and especially in kind, from almost any federal legislation that has come before. In short, many analogies to past emergency economic powers, such as those exercised in response to the thrift failures of the 1980s, are not on point with regard to these central constitutional concerns. Rather than rely on these precedents, Congress must take the time to work through these constitutional concerns.

    And these concerns are serious, regardless of how the courts might resolve them. Some would treat the Constitution as a legalistic document and employ narrow legalistic arguments to circumvent its strictures and protections. The substance of this debate, however, should not turn on what provisions might or might not pass muster with the courts under a pinched conception of our fundamental law. Rather, it is the principles the Constitution embodies, which have served us well through so many crises, that should be the focus of debate. In short, Americans should take little comfort that legislation might barely pass muster in the courts if the legislation does serious damage to the underlying constitutional principles that were designed to protect our individual rights against governmental usurpations.

    *emphasis mine.

39. #474726
    On September 29th, 2008 at 1:15 pm, Wayfaring Stranger said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:57 pm, Flyoverman said:
    

    This is a patriot….
    

    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:32 pm, vickisoup said:

    As one of only two people (out of 100+) who stood lonely in opposition to my own City’s efforts to socialize our community, I am pleased to say that we were able to convince the others that we must say, “No” to government handouts because the cost is far too high in the end.
    We told them that we were being lied to, the City was preying on their fears, and we were correct.
    Instead, the community members rebuffed the City’s help, we rallied together, raised the money we needed and we left the process free and clear, owing nobody anything. I was bloody and broken, but it was worth it.

    Hear, hear!

40. #474729
    On September 29th, 2008 at 1:16 pm, Wayfaring Stranger said:

    …Founding Father’s…

    Eep! That should be Founding Fathers.

41. #474737
    On September 29th, 2008 at 1:18 pm, FilmLadd said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 1:03 pm, FilmLadd said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:20 pm, Flyoverman said:

    One other thought: while I do not think the time is now, I am sad that the time is probably coming soon.

    The American Revolution did not happen overnight, and I am sure Franklin, Madison, Washington, Jefferson, et. al. were terribly distraught at the prospect of taking up arms against England.

    But freedom is more important than the workings of this government.

    Was it this oath? Note carefully what it says and doesn’t say.

    I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

42. #474749
    On September 29th, 2008 at 1:21 pm, TooMuchTime said:

    Bush, as it turned out, was demonstrably the lesser of two evils…

    More like the evil of two lessers.

43. #474750
    On September 29th, 2008 at 1:21 pm, FilmLadd said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:30 pm, AmericanPatriot said:

    Flyoverman, taking up arms to defend the Constitution is what I think was meant.

    Yes.

    We have few, if any, defenders in the government,now.
    Jefferson advocated the need for a Revolution every 20 years or so and we may be past due.

    I think it was Franklin, and I believe he said 200 years. But yes we are probably overdue, the rats have taken over the ship for a while now.

44. #474811
    On September 29th, 2008 at 1:43 pm, uhangtight said:

    On September 29th, 2008 at 12:20 pm, Flyoverman said

    I am sorry, but I disagree with your assessment…

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    I believe that we are losing our freedoms and with it our security. I believe that we have a right to ensure that the government does not become so large that it impedes upon our abilities to be protected in ownership and possessions. I believe with the changes in eminent domain and now this unconstitutional piece of legislature we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the Constitition backed Republic Democracy. An inch at a time and they won’t notice we are taking away these fundamental rights. An inch at a time and we will own their mortgages and their land we (the government) will be the master and they (the people) our slaves. It is closer than you think; and, I daresay, it is time to stop.

    You would think that regular elections would have prevented this day, but they didn’t. Those elections were supposed to be the method by which we can prevent the government from becoming the master. Well, it didn’t and now we are screwed unless we do something to stop it as the federal government has gotten to large and to powerful and is over stepping its bounds beyond what is permitted by the constitution. That is not stopping them, now is it? So what will stop them? I suggest, there will be a revolt maybe not for 20 years, but alas one is coming. The longer it takes the bloodier it will be, but it is coming.

45. #474813
    On September 29th, 2008 at 1:43 pm, travlinman said:

    “tip of the iceberg” comes to mind…

46. #474825
    On September 29th, 2008 at 1:46 pm, Wayfaring Stranger said:

    Are you thinking of this quote?
    

    I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical…It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.

    It’s been occasionally mistaken as a quote from Jefferson pertaining to the French Revolution (hence the misquote, a little revolution now and then), but it was actually from “a letter to James Madison on January 30, 1787, expressing justification for the series of protests led by Daniel Shay and a group of 1,200 farmers.” [i.e. Shay's Rebellion]

    Not sure if I’d want to advocate an armed rebellion like Shay’s, but I think the principle applies, that when the government becomes oppressive, the governed have the right to seek redress.

47. #474997
    On September 29th, 2008 at 2:06 pm, Jet Jaguar said:

    Woo-hoo! Free money! Give me some.

48. #475054
    On September 29th, 2008 at 2:17 pm, SpeakEasy said:

    How about:
    “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”-T. Jefferson