Carnage in the markets! Carnage in the markets! Carnage in the markets! Oops, never mind

By Michelle Malkin  •  September 30, 2008 07:43 AM

Don’t look now, but stocks are down a whopping 1 percent in Germany and are flat in Britain and France.

U.S. markets are poised to open higher. Update: Dow up more than 200 points in early trading.

Most Asian stock markets are holding up well too. The Shanghai Composite closed down just 0.2 percent; the Hang Seng closed up 0.8 percent; Bombay’s BSE 30 closed finished the day up 2.1 percent.

Flashback: “The US stock market could suffer a devastating crash with shares losing a third of their value this week if Hank Paulson’s financial bailout plan fails, US Treasury officials have warned.”

***

Ditto Mark Levin:

The liberal uses crises, real or manufactured, to expand the power of government at the expense of the individual and private property. He has spent, in earnest, 70 years evading the Constitution’s limits on governmental power. If conservatives don’t stand up to this, who will? If they don’t offer serious alternatives that address the current circumstances AND defend the founding principles, who will? The House Republicans have done both. And I, for one, thank them.

Incidentally, if you want to buy a home or car today you can. And if your credit is decent, you can get loans at a good rate. Last week we were told that if a deal was not struck by last Friday, our economy would collapse. It has not. That is not to say the evidence of economic troubles or worse should be ignored. It is to say that now is a time for reasoned decisions based on tried and true principles, not for abandoning them. I notice that the socialist, who, for the last 30 years, has insisted that private institutions make risky loans based on non-economic reasons, still has not abandoned his policies. Socialism does not work. We shouldn’t support more of it.

Related…Lie of the day: McDonald’s can’t get credit!

Posted in: Subprime crisis

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Comments


  1. #476180
    On September 30th, 2008 at 7:48 am, Cameron said:

    Aw, rats. I was hoping to buy up some businesses at fire sale prices. But on the bright side, I am sure that there will be other crises to stress out over.

  2. #476190
    On September 30th, 2008 at 7:56 am, wrcnossen said:

    I thought that, when getting credit, the price of risk was higher interest rates. No one wants to pay more interest, but that’s how the whole “risk – reward” thing works.

    Also – I wouldn’t lend money for anything when the interest charges is less than real inflation.

  3. #476192
    On September 30th, 2008 at 7:58 am, tre said:

    To paraphrase William Randolph Hearst, “You provide the pictures, I’ll provide the economic depression.”

  4. #476195
    On September 30th, 2008 at 7:58 am, tarpon said:

    Manufactured crisis. Right out of the Saul Alinsky playbook.

  5. #476196
    On September 30th, 2008 at 7:58 am, radio relay said:

    I’m waiting for this perspective on the main stream propaganda. Even “fair and balanced” isn’t going with it.

  6. #476198
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:00 am, PercyJ said:

    I find it funny that all the media is reporting that not passing the bailout bill will lead to a recession. Haven’t they been preaching for the last year that we are in a recession already!!!!

    So, which is it? …it can’t be both. I like how they continue to scare people into voting for BO.

  7. #476200
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:01 am, Jaded said:

    Oh Michelle you just won’t let those poor little UNHINGED chicken littles have their depression :-)

    I woke up breathing came to work and thus far this FAILURE only hit my 401K which goes to show it was in a bubble also. BUCK UP little chickens THIS TO SHALL COME TO PASS!

  8. #476203
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:02 am, bansharia said:

    Lest we forget Obambi took alot of credit for the bill that was ROUNDLY shot down by Americans when he thought it would pass…..
    MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    Tre and Tarp
    Right on ;)

  9. #476204
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:03 am, navywife91 said:

    Nancy Pelosi makes me sick! There. I said it. What a windbag.

    Now, on the bright side, oil is down, so I guess all the news isn’t bad.

  10. #476205
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:03 am, GraniteMan said:

    My life has been fairly long and it has seen stocks go up and stocks go down. Happens every 10 years or so. Americans are hard working, intelligent, and resourceful. The one thing we are short of right now is leadership. Ms Pelosi needs a course in diplomacy.

    As FDR said so many years ago, “We have nothing to fear but fear itself”.

  11. #476207
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:03 am, Goldwater Knight said:

    I don’t care bail me out!

  12. #476211
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:12 am, bansharia said:

    anyone have way to contact Newt?
    prefer phone #
    he needs our support n Prayers and a reminder to BUCK UP BOY!!

  13. #476215
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:14 am, jsr said:

    Hey, what happened to the gas crises? It seems like everybody has forgoten about that one which was going to require massive new programs, taxes and rebates. It seems the problem is slowly resolving itself and would actually do so faster if govt. would get out of the way of more drilling.

  14. #476216
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:14 am, Netfest said:

    Yesterday’s sell-off was clearly a selloff of expectations: Wall Street bought because they were told they’d get a deal.

    Now, they are again being told “something will pass.” So, they are buying again.

    If nothing passes, they will sell-off again.

    Why do the leaders of Congress and the Administration continue to tell the markets something they can’t deliver? They raise expectations. Then, the people speak, and those expectations are crushed.

    Dumb.

  15. #476217
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:16 am, et said:

    As seen on the Drudgereport:
    London markets crash as dollar records biggest gain in 15 years…

  16. #476219
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:16 am, bansharia said:

    Are there any head docs that post here?
    obambi is getting very creepy out on the stump acting as if he is above it all pointing his finger at others to do the job that yes he has NOW and is being paid for. AFTER he took credit for the bill when it looked like it would pass.. must be a name for that.

  17. #476220
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:17 am, Mercy4Me said:

    Asked during an interview on CBS’ “Face the Nation” whether McCain deserved credit for bringing lawmakers together, Obama said “no.”

    Great McCains not to blame!

  18. #476223
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:19 am, bansharia said:

    jsr,
    with all due respect the problem still exists. The can once again has been kicked to next year. oh and you might
    not want to say that there is no problem to folks down south who have another 2 weeks of shortages facing them they might get cranky…

  19. #476227
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:21 am, bansharia said:

    Mercy,
    Someone is being paid to “misplace” that as we type ;)

  20. #476230
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:23 am, bansharia said:

    et,
    FTSE is up now no idea what you read.

  21. #476232
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:25 am, navywife91 said:

    All of these videos are surfacing showing Dems speaking so highly of Fannie and Freddie. This is the same party who wants to tell the American people only Republicans are to blame. I hope McCain uses these videos to expose the lies being told by Dems and repeated by their allies in the MSM.

  22. #476234
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:32 am, Ragspierre said:

    I just wrote Kevin Brady, my local congressman, to assure him that if he votes for this boondoggle again,

    I will work AGAINST his re-election

    I will contribute AGAINST his re-election

    I will vote AGAINST his re-election

    I have lost huge respect for Hugh Hewitt, who has gone into full headless-chicken mode, asking callers if they approve of a loss of three trillion dollars in the nation’s wealth yesterday.

    What the market giveth, the market taketh away…and then it gives it again when it has adjusted.

  23. #476238
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:35 am, madchef said:

    WOW, the sun came up this morning, the birds are singing, the world didn’t end last night.
    Hey Hank, looks like your scare tactics didn’t work, now shove that bailout where the sun don’t shine!!

  24. #476240
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:37 am, jsr said:

    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:19 am, bansharia said:

    you might
    not want to say that there is no problem to folks down south who have another 2 weeks of shortages facing them they might get cranky…

    bansharia,

    I live in Atlanta so I know all about all about the shortage, which was caused by hurricane damage to refineries. It is being exacerbated by state price controls that threaten to prosecute price gougers. More than anything this underscores the need for more refining capacity, which is constantly opposed by the Dems. and environmentalists. It shouldn’t require any massive new federal legislation.

    Unfortunately I can’t say I’ve noticed much, if any, decline in the traffic despite the shortage.

  25. #476244
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:39 am, bansharia said:

    Mad,
    self censored was going to mention the Goreacle’s… great post ;)

  26. #476246
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:43 am, bansharia said:

    JSR,
    oh boy you want I should fedex you some gas? pitiful. What is your take of your neighbors do they understand and hold those to account who should be, or are they just whining about big oil?

  27. #476247
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:46 am, AnotherBrian said:

    Just to point out that the Asian markets are now cratering…..

  28. #476250
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:50 am, chapoutier said:

    Couldn’t be because they still expect a bailout in some form to pass soon, could it?

    Nawwww…..

    MM is just right and all the economic experts who kinda do this for a living are wrong.

  29. #476251
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:50 am, donnab13 said:

    Last night as we drove into the local Mall parking lot, I remarked, “Apparently these people didn’t get the memo that we are headed for a depression. The four..yes four..new restaurants that have opened in the past 3 months to bolster the Malls sales were packed. None of those restaurants are fast food eateries. One is a restaurant in which the average entree runs around $40. There were no parking spaces to be found at that restaurant. Life as usual has not stopped here.
    Maybe this is why some of main street isn’t buying what Congress is selling us.

  30. #476257
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:52 am, jsr said:

    bansharia,

    Unfortunately I am hearing a lot more complaining about big oil than complaints about Democrats. There seems to be a total disconnect in people minds.

    I have enough in my tank for about a week if I stick to the bare necesities but yes, please fed-ex some gas. Just make sure you don’t charge more than the state-approved price or you may be investigated.

  31. #476259
    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:55 am, bansharia said:

    Another,
    and? so what.
    look this is going to be a bumpy ride.
    Prepare yourself ( if you have not already and no idea why anyone would not have ).
    There are times in one’s life, every generation has them, that ya do a gut check.
    Seems to me there is very little new in this world. Keep the morals you have and stand by them.. BUCK UP

  32. #476265
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:00 am, bansharia said:

    JSR,
    put some DRILL BABY DRILL signs in your yard, windows and auto ;)
    If you have enuff for a week you are 1/2 way there get some rides from the
    fools who blame big oil burn their carbon!!! snicker

  33. #476269
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:01 am, conservativesRus said:

    chap – #28
    I’m pretty sure that “ALL the financial experts who do this for a living” are not on-board with the bailout.

    If I were a wall street guy and the gov’t was going to give me billions and billions – of course I’d feel euphoric and spend freely. Then when they told me sorry, we’re not going to give it to you, I’d feel disappointment and want to get my money back out. The trouble with all that “analysis” – the real value of the underlying asset did not change. The real value (net present value of all future earnings) of xyz company didn’t change – only the “traded” value.

  34. #476271
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:02 am, PercyJ said:

    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:46 am, AnotherBrian said:

    Just to point out that the Asian markets are now cratering…..

    Asian markets are closed, so where are you getting your info????

  35. #476273
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:04 am, conservativesRus said:

    PercyJ – apparently the parallel universe Asian Markets.

  36. #476276
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:06 am, b-cat said:

    Somebody tell the politicians, Wall Street is full of “speculators”. Weren’t they the boogeymen a couple weeks ago for a different “crisis”.

  37. #476282
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:08 am, Last Massachusetts Conservative said:

    A bit off topic. Perhaps we need a thread to discuss this. I find it interesting that foreign governments are asking us to pass the bill. Wouldn’t it be nice if they stepped up to the plate and purchased some of our toxic assets. That would be a way for them to help pay for the defense the USA has given them virtually for free since the end of WWII.

  38. #476284
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:10 am, Ragspierre said:

    Two of the very best economists I know deplore the bail-out…

    Thomas Sowell

    Walter Williams

    I don’t know for certain, but I’d bet Buchanan and others of the free-market school feel the same.

  39. #476286
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:11 am, b-cat said:

    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:08 am, Last Massachusetts Conservative said:
    That would be a way for them to help pay for the defense the USA has given them virtually for free since the end beginning of WWII.

    Fixed it for ya. ;)

  40. #476287
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:13 am, Last Massachusetts Conservative said:

    thanks b-cat :smile:

  41. #476288
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:13 am, MtsEdge said:

    Yesterday, a couple of libs were talking about how “obama will get us out of this.” They really meant it. I couldn’t let that one slide, and had to call them on it. Then, I heard *crickets*. Both walked away.

  42. #476290
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:13 am, bansharia said:

    Last,
    hell their life is based on the toxic euro whose sole purpose was anger/hatred towards America. The have a MUCH larger problem than we do and my darkside finds pleasure in that.
    poke around lots of news on the problems they are having even melodramtic suicides….

  43. #476294
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:16 am, bansharia said:

    MTS,
    ^10 your words will echo in their hollow heads, tinfoil won’t prevent ;)
    sounds like you got in their face like obambi proclaimed they should do!

  44. #476296
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:17 am, lgm said:

    Actual economists, liberal and conservative, take the 800 point Dow dive seriously. Playing “what, me worry?” with the economy is closer to treason than questioning the neocon Iraq policy.

  45. #476297
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:17 am, MtsEdge said:

    MTS,
    ^10 your words will echo in their hollow heads, tinfoil won’t prevent
    sounds like you got in their face like obambi proclaimed they should do!

    Yes, only I was nice about it. :)

  46. #476300
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:19 am, Goldwater Knight said:

    lgm said:

    Actual economists, liberal and conservative, take the 800 point Dow dive seriously. Playing “what, me worry?” with the economy is closer to treason than questioning the neocon Iraq policy.

    I am an economist lgm I say burn out the dead wood a little.

  47. #476305
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:21 am, mytake said:

    Pelosi, the twit, gave a nasty political speech for her 15 minutes of fame and the Republicans are getting blamed for being petty. You can’t win if you are conservative.

  48. #476306
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:22 am, b-cat said:

    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:17 am, lgm said:
    Actual economists, liberal and conservative, take the 800 point Dow dive seriously. Playing “what, me worry?” with the economy is closer to treason than questioning the neocon Iraq policy.

    Somehow I don’t believe you’re including any laissez-faire economists. I still don’t think the sky is falling, even if the markets do slide. These things are cyclical. Ever look at economic charts? Peaks and valleys? That’s what it’s supposed to do. Until the government comes in and tries to make it nothing but an incline. Then when it falls it HAS to fall hard. Get government out of the way and we’ll all be fine.

  49. #476307
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:23 am, mjk said:

    Economies are cyclical. They go up, they go down. As someone else pointed out, when the dot.com bubble burst, the markets lost something like 7 trillion dollars. Where was the bailout for the dotcoms?

    Throwing 700 billion dollars into a hemmorhaging credit market will solve absolutely nothing and will not stave off any sort of recession/stock market slowdown. Just wait it out. Eventually the markets correct themselves.

    And yes, I’m saying let those companies fail and let people have their homes bought on adjustable rate mortgage foreclosed on.

  50. #476308
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:23 am, sonofdy said:

    chapoutier: Or it could be this is what it would have fallen if the bailout had never been mentioned. I don’t know and niether does anyone else. It could be that the markets will right themselves and we will start paying down debts or it could be we are heading for the next great depression. Who knows? All I know is Obamas promised 800 billion in addtional spending will bankrupt this country.

  51. #476310
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:24 am, PercyJ said:

    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:19 am, Goldwater Knight said:

    I am an economist lgm I say burn out the dead wood a little.

    That’s the beauty of a recession or even a downturn….you can’t prevent it, and it lowers prices and weeds out the bad businesses. Look at oil prices already.

    I heard on the news yesterday that companies might not be able to pay payroll if they can’t get credit. I don’t think you should be in business if you can’t even pay your employees.

  52. #476312
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:25 am, sonofdy said:

    Actual economists, liberal and conservative, take the 800 point Dow dive seriously.

    As they should.

    Playing “what, me worry?” with the economy is closer to treason than questioning the neocon Iraq policy.

    After the last 8 years of liberal hate, the word treason is meaningless.

  53. #476313
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:25 am, Paul Revere said:

    Am I the only one who thinks the Republicans played Nancy like a fiddle yesterday? Some think it was the other way around…that she purposefully sabotaged the vote with her idiotic speech. Mike Pence said that was just Nancy being Nancy. I say the Republicans wanted to lay the defeat at her feet and succeeded. :D

  54. #476316
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:28 am, mytake said:

    The CEO of BB&T, a good bank, is against the bailout. People shouldn’t be rewarded for giving out bad loans. That’s the way our system works. It didn’t help that all along the way they lied… and lied.. and lied.

  55. #476317
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:28 am, luckydogg said:

    Mr,Trump said on fox, with the oil going down, that will get help alot!!!
    And with the stocks going down, that will bring “New money” in to buy all the bargins………

  56. #476318
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:28 am, Ragspierre said:

    lgm said:

    Actual economists, liberal and conservative, take the 800 point Dow dive seriously. Playing “what, me worry?” with the economy is closer to treason than questioning the neocon Iraq policy.

    I named at least two economists who deplore it.

    I call you…

    name your economists.

    I am just a lowly attorney with an MBA who has studied economics for three decades. My bat-senses tell me that if there is value in these assets we are supposed to be “buying”, the market will value them and find willing buyers over a short time.

    What is wrong with that reasoning?

  57. #476320
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:30 am, Goldwater Knight said:

    Economies are cyclical.

    That’s one of the tenets of Marxist ‘economics’ to prevent business cycles of expansion and contraction or label these cycles as a consequence of the evil system of capitalism.

  58. #476321
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:30 am, sonofdy said:

    Paul Revere: I can’t believe the democrats are blaming the republicans when THE DEMS CONTROL THE HOUSE. It is a clear failure of leadership. My opinion? The entire lot of them should be fired. Every single politican in washington today reguardless of party. ALL OF THEM should go, now. They should resign en mass and let us vote in a whole new congress, senate and president.

  59. #476322
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:30 am, mngirl said:

    The only thing that has lost a 1/3 of its value is Goldman Sachs stock – since early August. Which helps us understand the sense of urgency Secretary Paulson has around us giving him unlimited access to $700B to bail out his cronies.

    Where did I read there is anger on the Hill among Republicans about Paulson’s ’stubborn’ refusal to consider other possible workout/bailout options. Those options don’t help his buddies, of course he won’t consider them. One well placed phone call from Goldman Board Member and buddy Jim Johnson (yes, that Obama Friend Jim Johnson – a United States Democratic Party political figure – Wikipedia).
    But today, Goldman is up $3 and 2.5% already in pre-market trading, Paulson is doing his best to save his own retirement and that of his Democratic friends.

  60. #476326
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:31 am, Last Massachusetts Conservative said:

    Ragspierre, reasoning with lgm is like pushing a string uphill. Just does not work.

  61. #476328
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:32 am, sonofdy said:

    I am just a lowly attorney with an MBA who has studied economics for three decades.

    And what makes you think you know better than congress people who have done nothing but get fat in congress since the seventies? /sarcam off.

  62. #476330
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:34 am, Ragspierre said:

    Alas, a known quantity is our friend, lgm.

    I write around him/her…not to him/her.

    Others…with the sense to reason…relate.

  63. #476334
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:38 am, Goldwater Knight said:

    name your economists.

    lgm likes John Stuart Mill. lol.

  64. #476335
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:39 am, bayou22 said:

    The only place this is a disaster is in the minds of Wall Street elites who want to be bailed out for their ineptitude. But if I hear “Wall Street is Main Street” one more time, I’m going to lose my ____.

  65. #476337
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:41 am, NJ-Aviator said:

    DJIA is up about 2% at the moment. Which is close to where it was before Pelosi started yapping after the vote yesterday.

    But the government’s job isn’t to buoy the stock market. Can you imagine the conflict of interest there? Like for example, if the Speaker of the House had 25 million in some energy company that was tanking and her actions could be perceived as an attempt to inflate her investment?

    People have gone to jail for less. Seriously.

  66. #476340
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:41 am, Netfest said:

    Here’s what I don’t understand…

    Why isn’t the Administration using some of those “tools in the toolkit” to relieve pressure on the credit markets NOW, while Congress is taking the next couple days off for the holidays?

    Seriously, it could suspend mark-to-market today.

    Are they actually doing nothing to put pressure on the markets, so that Congress must pass something?

    Are they actually hoping the market goes down to make lawmakers pass a bad bill?

    We should be hopping mad about the inaction of the SEC, FDIC and Treasury to do something today, if our money and economy “is at risk,” as the president says.

  67. #476342
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:42 am, RobM1981 said:

    Milton Friedman had the answers – but Clinton, Greenspan, Bush, Bernanke, and now Paulson (how did SecTreas get into this? Can somebody help me understand how the guy who mints coins is suddenly in the middle of this?) Anyway, not a one of them had the common sense to see the obvious:

    They were printing WAY too much money, and they were distributing it to EXACTLY the wrong people.

    Monetarism is dead simple. Friedman, time and again, said “print just enough money to keep the economy moving at a healthy rate. Don’t starve it for cash; don’t overheat it.”

    “Overheat” is generally shown by inflation. Too much money chasing too few goods.

    Have we had inflation? Tons. If you’re an economist you would have see it, even though the indices kept saying “cheap imports are keeping things OK…”

    There is no solid economic reason for house prices to skyrocket like they did. That was a warning sign. Prudent economists, and politicians who listened to them (all 3 of them) saw that and said “hey – maybe we’re printing too much money? Maybe interest rates are too low?”

    Other mean people pointed out “hey, you know, historically it’s never been a great idea to lend poor and/or stupid people five, six, seven times what they earn. There’s a good chance that they won’t pay it back, and there’s an EXCELLENT chance that someone smarter than them will find a way to screw them out of that money. Like, say, Wall Street or Madison Avenue…”

    But those people were mean, and didn’t understand how credit is a civil right, and people have a right to live in homes they can’t afford, watching $150/month digital cable on their 60″ TV’s while ordering pizza delivery every night because they can’t be bothered to cook – or even to drive the cars that they can’t afford to even pick the food up.

    That’s their right, and if you disagree you are Ebeneezer Scrooge.

    A few economists noticed that some other things were getting expensive, indicating that perhaps we had too many dollars chasing them. Things like Euros, or Yuan’s, or Yen.

    There is no clean way out of this. Either our money supply is going to contract (along with our economy) as banks fail and deadbeats lose their homes, or the government is going to continue to flood the market with dollars and give us one heck of an inflation rise.

    Your $200,000 mortgage will be very easy to pay back if the dollar isn’t worth anything.

    But the repercussions will be hideous.

  68. #476343
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:44 am, wighttrasch said:

    must be a name for that.

    bansharia–yes, it’s called being a ‘taterhole’.

  69. #476344
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:44 am, happyscrapper said:

    On September 30th, 2008 at 8:16 am, bansharia said:
    Are there any head docs that post here?
    obambi is getting very creepy out on the stump acting as if he is above it all pointing his finger at others to do the job that yes he has NOW and is being paid for. AFTER he took credit for the bill when it looked like it would pass.. must be a name for that.

    I’m not a shrink, but I have noticed that Obama has become increasingly militant-looking and acting. He has that furrowed brow, angry demeanor that is truly frightening. He looks angry all the time, and apparently must think that makes him look “presidential”. This is one scary man. Oh, and if he is elected, and dems continue to control Congress, you can kiss any drilling goodbye. We will not only plunge into socialism, but will continue to be held hostage by the oil barrons (you know, those folks who hate us and want us dead).

  70. #476345
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:45 am, Ragspierre said:

    Methinks I hear the flustered rattle of keys, in desperate search of an economist in support of this debacle…

    We are assured they exist. There are Marxist economists, after all…

    Would someone explain to me how this plan is not the very definition of fascism?

    Why weren’t Freddy and Fannie fascist enterprises?

    HINT: Google fascist economics before attempting an answer.

  71. #476346
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:45 am, right4life said:

    the dow is up 220 or so..we’re all gonna die!!

    uhhhh nevermind…

  72. #476348
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:45 am, vickisoup said:

    Steve Forbes was on Fox last night and was very helpful. Who can argue with the money know-how of this man? Certainly not I.
    His take: The bailout was a disaster and would not have been good for the country.
    Nevertheless, he agrees (as do almost ALL bailout opponents!) that something must be done soon. That said, let’s get on with it in a meaningful, purposeful, careful, thoughtful, non-partisan effort.
    So, Nancy Pelosi, you and your Bush-hating minions will need to stay home so the grownups can get something done.
    :roll:

  73. #476349
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:48 am, slp said:
  74. #476350
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:48 am, vickisoup said:

    I’m not a shrink, but I have noticed that Obama has become increasingly militant-looking and acting. He has that furrowed brow, angry demeanor that is truly frightening. He looks angry all the time, and apparently must think that makes him look “presidential”. This is one scary man.

    Good morning, happyscrapper! Thank God we survived yesterday. ;-)
    As usual, you’re right on the money with this observation. Everything about that man’s demeanor is changing to reveal his true, ugly-inside self. His entire countenance is looking evil to me.
    I’m praying that others see this as well.

  75. #476355
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:52 am, Ragspierre said:

    Many people regard bankruptcy as the equivalent of disaster.

    It isn’t, and it never was.

    Bankruptcy is a Constitutional principle.

    It is designed to allow a rational, deliberate means of dealing with personal or business financial failures.

    It works very well, as anyone who has studied ENRON knows.

    It cannot work miracles, but it DOES go very far to clean up messes people inevitably make.

    It is ONE of the cardinal tools that should be used in this situation.

  76. #476356
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:52 am, old_texan said:

    The answer to this so called crisis is to let the bankruptcy courts and the system we have in place to work. Under bankruptcy reorganization and new regulation this can be fixed without a socialist takeover by the government.

  77. #476357
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:53 am, SylviaMarie said:

    If you haven’t read it already, this article at American Thinker is a must read: Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis by James Simpson.

    A small excerpt: “The goal is more malevolent – the failure is deliberate. Don’t laugh. This method not only has its proponents, it has a name: the Cloward-Piven Strategy. It describes their agenda, tactics, and long-term strategy.”

    This crap sandwich they are trying to force down our throats is an orchestrated crisis

    We are victims of “The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis.”

    The article is long but absolutely necessary to understand WHO IS BEHIND THIS FAUX CRISIS in which we’re asked to take the cure that kills us.

    I’ll bet you won’t be surprised to find Obama’s name smack dab in the middle of it.

    Keep up the pressure on Congress! NO BAILOUT!!

    Here’s the link to the article: http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html

  78. #476360
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:53 am, old_texan said:

    Rags…great minds think alike huh?

  79. #476361
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:55 am, nyc123me said:

    Well perhaps I should change my name to ChickenLittle. Sorry for my panic yesterday Michelle and others who comment here, I sincerely believed today was going to be very very different from what we’re seeing so far. I am very relieved and happy to say I was completely wrong. Thank you Michelle for your continued updates and for keeping your feet planted firmly on the ground.

  80. #476362
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:55 am, Mister P said:

    Looks like McCain lost his mojo and is leaving those brave Republican congressman out to dry. He will try to once again get this failed MOAB to pass. He has lost the opportunity to prove himself as the Maveric he claims to be and stand against the President and Treasurer. He needs to first demain that Paulson gets fired! Then he needs to demand that the Mark to Market rule change. Heaven forbid if stocks went up on just that change alone.

  81. #476364
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:57 am, right4life said:

    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:55 am, nyc123me

    thank you…life goes on…all the fearmongering about ‘not getting credit’ was a lie. my wife is in real estate, and she has a couple of closings this week.

  82. #476365
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:57 am, NJ-Aviator said:

    RobM1981 said:

    Milton Friedman had the answers – but Clinton, Greenspan, Bush, Bernanke, and now Paulson (how did SecTreas get into this? Can somebody help me understand how the guy who mints coins is suddenly in the middle of this?)

    Good point. His job, besides printing and signing Fed Reserve Notes (aka that cash in your pocket), is to serve as an economic adviser to the President. While he can recommend action, it’s not his job to start buying and selling (and pricing) complex market instruments. Hence… our problem and part of the basis for the objection to this plan.

  83. #476366
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:58 am, happyscrapper said:

    I am rather clueless when it comes to economics, but common sense would tell you…If Obama intends to raise taxes on the wealthiest, and spread out that wealth to the poorest, it just won’t work! The wealthy, seeing higher expenses, will pass that on to the consumer in higher prices. Also, there will be layoffs in their companies. How can this possibly help the poor? Wouldn’t there be less for them rather than more? What am I missing here? Where is all that money Obama is promising going to come from?

  84. #476368
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:58 am, RobM1981 said:

    Here come the sharks… looking to feed on stock bargains.

    And they will find them. Oh, yes, they will find them.

    The recession will hurt. Recessions always hurt. But there’s no denying that when the weak and/or small fish are devoured, the strong fish that remain will be all the stronger.

    And at some point, those survivors will need to hire people…

    We will survive.

  85. #476371
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:59 am, Ragspierre said:

    old_texan said:

    Rags…great minds think alike huh?

    Yep. Then there’s us…

  86. #476372
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:59 am, cheapseat said:

    i too am an attorney with an mba and in my humble opinion, close down fannie and freddie and sell off those assets for whatever you can get for them, sell off aig assets for whatever you can get for them, and get the hell out of business. every government run or subsidized business venture is a disaster because they inject political agendas into the venture. for instance, yesterday nearly all black congressmen voted against the bailout because the mean republicans took out the acorn money. what the hell does funding for acorn and la raza have to do with credit problems. the sooner we shut down these socialist pet projects the better our economy will run. the sooner we inject downside risk back into the american work ethic and businesses the better our economy will be. deadbeats signed a contract. live up to it, or lose your house and whatever credit rating you might recieve, and never buy on credit again.

  87. #476374
    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:59 am, Flyoverman said:

    Geeee, the sun rose this morning. Did anyone tell CNN?

    When the Congress gets their restaurants in the Capitol to run without an 18.7 million dollar loss in 7 years they can move on to bigger things. Not before.

    This bill failed, because instead of helping the financial system, the Socialists that are the Democrats crafted a bill that would have nationalized the whole financial system, took over student, auto and other non-mortgages, bailed out union and government pension plans and spread money around to their constituent groups like ACORN.

    This legislative nonsense that’s gone on for decades. Pelosi is right; “The party is over,” but it’s Congress’ party that’s over. ENOUGH.

    The best thing Congress can do is adjourn. They are useless. If they want to contribute they can put the regulations back they have been removing for the last 15 years, repeal Sarbanes-Oxley, eliminate the capital gains tax entirely and CUT SPENDING.

  88. #476375
    On September 30th, 2008 at 10:00 am, old_texan said:

    SylviaMarie,

    GREAT link. Thanks a lot.

  89. #476376
    On September 30th, 2008 at 10:01 am, jangar said:

    The only thing that needs to happen is to let Fannie and Freddy fail, then move in with DOJ and FBI and prosecute those responsible.

    I know…pipe dream.

    I’m not a shrink, but I have noticed that Obama has become increasingly militant-looking and acting. He has that furrowed brow, angry demeanor that is truly frightening. He looks angry all the time, and apparently must think that makes him look “presidential”. This is one scary man.

    He’s always been a militant, much like Farakan, not a lot of separation between the two. It’s just not possible for him to keep anymore of it bottled up. The real BHO will spill out before November.

  90. #476378
    On September 30th, 2008 at 10:02 am, ArizonaNeanderthal said:

    On September 30th, 2008 at 9:44 am, happyscrapper said:
    I’m not a shrink, but I have noticed that Obama has become increasingly militant-looking and acting. He has that furrowed brow, angry demeanor that is truly frightening. He looks angry all the time,

    I have noticed that. Too bad the Republicans couldn’t come up with a better candidate to blow this Militant Muslim Red out of the running. Please try to read his book “Dreams From My Father:A Story of Race and Inheritance”. The man hates-white people, the west, America, capitalism, his mother who did abandon him, his white grandmother who did NOT abandon him but not his black father who DID abandon him.
    When his wife mamaObama disparages America and his Pastor screams God Damn America remember the book “Dreams From My Father:A Story of Race and Inheritance”. It is who he is: one bitter, hateful man and most certainly a Communist.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    —-

    “I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.” -George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426.

  91. #476379
    On September 30th, 2008 at 10:02 am, CO2 Producer said:

    The Dow’s going up? Consider me aghast. NOT!

    Headlines yesterday: We lost a trillion dollars! We lost a trillion dollars! Biggest point loss ever! I was gonna bet dollars to doughnuts yesterday that the Dow would go up considerably today. I’m no economist, and the day’s still young, but this doesn’t surprise me at all. How could the Dow have climbed so high so fast over the last decade and not have been expected to take what looks like a serious hit once in a while? The Dow was in the lower-7000’s just six years ago and was almost double that a year ago. What did we expect?

  92. #476382
    On September 30th, 2008 at 10:04 am, JHSII said:

    Reading those on the left talk about how ALL the economists say we’re now in for an economic disaster because this bailout wasn’t passed reminds me of the same line given by the Global Warming crowd.

    The Sky Is Falling!!

    The Sky Is Falling!!

    /not :roll:

  93. #476383
    On September 30th, 2008 at 10:05 am, right4life said:

    don’t forget repeal CRA, the ACORN’ from which this mess grew.

  94. #476385
    On September 30th, 2008 at 10:06 am, rpfinley said:

    Stocks are trading up on the perception that a deal will still be announced. You already are having a run on a few banks and not passing the bill will only magnify the problem. Its easy to talk about the bill in theory but when its your bank that has a line outside of it or is shutdown for the weekend, it will be interesting to see the posts.

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