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Comments

1. #101
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:38 am, MtsEdge said:

   Of course the bill isn’t perfect, but it’s not going to be perfect. And we simply don’t have time to re-work it over and over and over again until it’s palatable.

   Reminds me of a high-pressure salesman at your door, on the phone, on TV…you must buy this (hunkajunk) NOW!!!

2. #102
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:40 am, ITookTheRedPill said:

   Oh, and…

   Pass the Fair Tax
   Repeal the 16th Amendment
   Repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913
   Go back to the gold standard

3. #103
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:42 am, Mister P said:

   Problem is, that pundits for the most part have ignored, is what happens next if this doesn’t work? Do we dip in for another trillion next year?

   People will continue to default on their mortgages. This bill does not prevent it. Housing prices will continue to drop since the government is in the business of having a fire sale on millions of empty houses.

   We are in a spiral created by the government making promises it was unable to backup. It won’t at some point be able to back up that FDIC commitment either.

4. #104
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:42 am, Wayfaring Stranger said:

   Okay, I just tried to leave a comment, and got a screen that said I’m not allowed to comment. What gives?

5. #105
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:43 am, Mister P said:

   Pass the Fair Tax

   Yeah, extort even more money from us.

6. #106
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:43 am, happyscrapper said:

   On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:32 am, Irish Rose said:
   I posted # 43 before I posted # 47. #47 showed up immediately, but #43 did not show up until about five minutes later.

   Just a glitch, I’m sure.

   Sometimes I post and it gets stuck in the “loading” mode and never actually submits. I have to go all the way out of the website and start over. Very frustrating. I just had to do that a while ago, and had to sign back on as a commenter with my password, etc. Maybe Michelle cleans house occasionally and things get a bit bogged down. Anyway, I’m back in and your comments are posted, so all is well.

7. #107
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:44 am, Durangodarlin said:

   So…how much is the bailout and how much are the earmarks for a grand total of ????

8. #108
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:45 am, stalban said:

   Well by golly! I was able to get through to my senator’s email today! Funny how that works out. I made it clear to them both that any and all challengers to their seats next time they’re up for re-election will get all of my support thanks to their yes vote on the boondoggle last night.
   Since I wasn’t able to email my congressman (servers down, don’t you know!) I called his office. Informed the nice man answering the phone that I would appreciate another no vote from him.

9. #109
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:45 am, walterc said:

   Both my Senators (Mike Enzi & Dr John Barrasso) voted NO. Way to go guys.

   My Congresswoman (Barbara Cubin) has missed most votes in the past two years (in fairness, most has been due to a husband battling severe health issues) but did she HAVE to show up on Monday to vote yes? Good thing she’s not running for re-election (or maybe that’s why she voted yes, nothing to lose).

   And probably no reason for me to call her office. But I will any way.

10. #110
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 am, maisy said:

    I know how to stop this ..attach a rider to it releasing Ramos and Compean and holding the Fence finish to the enactment of the bill………………..I was up all night listening to Coast To Coast..they had a woman on who was Asst housing secretary under 1st George Bush..she also had worked at Goldman Sachs years ago and knew the business well,.She called this a Corporate Coup D’de’tat….EXACTLY! It is open theft ...they are simple common thieves!
    As far as the lie about the public turning around …IT is a BLATANT LIE!!! Tried several times to get thru yesterday and lines were unavailable….

11. #111
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 am, Wayfaring Stranger said:

    Second try:
    

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 9:01 am, Irish Rose said: [#43]

    I hear what you’re saying. I don’t like the way this bill is being rammed down our throats, especially since many of those doing the ramming are the reason we’re in this mess. But you do raise legitimate concerns. Speaking for myself here, we really want/need a better bill to address those concerns, but it looks like we’re going to get stuck with this one – if we’re lucky (it could be worse, hard as it is to say that).

12. #112
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 am, Mister P said:

    some chilling comments by economist from the foxnews site:

    John Cochrane, a professor at the University of Chicago Business School, worried that the solution was out of all proportion to the problem.

    The legislation is like this: some boats are sinking, so rather than bailing those boats out, you blow up the dam and drain the whole lake.

    Robert Hansen, senior associate dean and professor at the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth College, summed up his view this way:

    Does this justify some government intervention to jumpstart the market? Yes. Is this the best way to solve the problem? I don’t know. Does this justify this level of intervention? No.

    At the other extreme is Daniel McFadden, a professor at the University of California at Berkeley and a Nobel Prize winner. McFadden could not paint the situation in more dire terms:

    I think that the U.S. is in the same position as the Soviet Union in 1988. We are about a year behind them when they collapsed. We are one year away from when our economy could not function, that we could not keep order in the country.

13. #113
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:49 am, sonofdy said:

    Now might be the time to attach the “I got mine, screw you bill of 2008″ to it.

14. #114
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:50 am, MrVIBEMAN said:

    Make sure all you Illinois folks give Rep. Jerry Weller a call. He was the only House rep. who didn’t vote on the initial Bill.

    His local office will forward any message to him, so they say.

    Local Joliet (815) 740-2028

    DC Office (202) 225-3635

15. #115
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:51 am, beenthere said:

    People need to be aware that as a rule, e-mail is ignored. That is, it is heavily discounted by congress people as being “too easy,” a lazy man’s protest. Hand written letters are still the best, but of course there is no time for that. Phone calls are good, but of course getting through is becoming extremely difficult. At this stage try and get in the face of their local staff. And if that doesn’t work, try a smoke signal. The sheer speed of this thing is its greatest danger. The usual mechanisms of resistance do not work that well against a boulder coming down a mountain.

16. #116
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 am, flyfisher said:

    Good luck getting through. I’ve tried both calling and emailing my stooge congressman, but I can’t reach him. He has an office a few miles from my home, but surprise, surprise, the phone number has been temporarily disconnected. I plan on driving over there with a torch and pitchfork if I can’t get a message to him soon.

17. #117
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 am, txvet2 said:

    Well, I’m back to voting the Conservative ticket. A pox on both their houses. There’s plenty Congress can do to help fix the problem, none of it requiring taxpayer money – rescind CRA and Sarbanes-Oxley, rescind “mark-to-market” rules, etc. But to add to the mania already infecting Congress, they’re talking about temporarily suspending mark-to-market. Absolute insanity.

18. #118
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:59 am, happyscrapper said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:42 am, Wayfaring Stranger said:
    Okay, I just tried to leave a comment, and got a screen that said I’m not allowed to comment. What gives?

    If you are not allowed to comment, how did this comment get in? Just asking.

19. #119
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 am, Irish Rose said:

    You know, I don’t really care if you folks don’t like my opinion. I’m going to continue to say what I think here, as long as I have posting privileges.

    Far too many people here who are flapping their gums wildly about RINOs, principalled conservatism and anti-tax activism don’t have a clue what they’re talking about, no understanding whatsoever of how the American economy breaks down and what makes it tick. No concern whatsoever, about the way that a crash is going to affect millions of small businesses and vulnerable Americans .

    Denial and ignorance are running absolutely rampant on this blog, and the consequences of this folly are going to be very unpleasant for all of us if Congress fails to act and the shite finally hits the fan.

    Yes, the original bill was flawed. And yes, I’m glad that house Republicans stood their ground, to defend the American taxpayer. They’ve done all that they can, but now it’s now time to stop talking and go to a vote. Time is of the essence.

    Michelles’ lack of understanding with regard to the breakdown of the American economy is just stunning, in my opinion. The anti-bailout dialogue that I am seeing on this blog day after day is childish, irresponsible, naive and – in my opinion – dangerous.

20. #120
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 am, Mister P said:

    interesting listening to Frank Shostek of the Von Mises institute. He is saying this whole package is just for show. Benanke will do the pumping of money anyway. The Feds have almost unlimited ability to print money anyway.

21. #121
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 am, tiredofit08 said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:14 am, happyscrapper said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 9:18 am, pueblo1032 said:
    How did a PROPOSAL submitted by PAULSON and BERNANCKE at 3 pages, become 400 plus pages??? Stop this now, get on the phone!!!

    $100 BILLION of pork will make a bill very very fat.

    and mcshamnesty voted for the pork…go figure…

22. #122
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 am, Irish Rose said:

    Sometimes I post and it gets stuck in the “loading” mode and never actually submits. I have to go all the way out of the website and start over. Very frustrating. I just had to do that a while ago, and had to sign back on as a commenter with my password, etc. Maybe Michelle cleans house occasionally and things get a bit bogged down. Anyway, I’m back in and your comments are posted, so all is well.

    Agreed, and I’m giving our hostess a pass.

23. #123
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 am, flyfisher said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 am, Mister P said:

    That last quote is what I’ve been concerned about from the beginning of this crisis. Unlike the Great Depression era, we’ve had a break down of the moral order. Plus, people have become dependent on government and most are by and large too soft and spoiled. We are accustomed to lives of ease. People by and large do not know how to do even basic things for themselves anymore. There is virtually no self-sufficiency anymore. That’s why I believe a prolonged economic problem would be very different in a bad way than in previous eras. Many of our cities are hotbeds of crime already. Throw some hunger into the mix and things could get violent in a hurry.

24. #124
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 am, Laree said:

    How much of this is being driven by George W Bush’s International Banking Buddies? How much of this is Politically Driven, we know there is a Free Market- Alternative. So who is leaning on Dubya, and by extension our body politic? Are We Sheep baa baa baa.

25. #125
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:13 am, California Red said:

    It’s inevitable folks.

    The bailout will pass and Obama is going to be president.

    Do you think it is conincidence that we have this crisis shortly after McCain admitted that the economy was his weakness?

    McCain did not show me the type of leadership I was looking for on the issue. If a federal intervention is necessary he shoudl have explained to me why. If it is not necessary, he should have fought it tooth and nail.

    I watched Obama’s senate speech yesterday and he looked like a man destined to be president.

26. #126
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:13 am, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:43 am, Mister P said:

    Pass the Fair Tax

    Yeah, extort even more money from us.

    That’s a myth/lie.

    We need to help our economy right now. Eliminating the IRS and implementing the Fair Tax is one of the things that will streamline and energize our economy.

    It is also much more transparent, so that if Congress did try to raise your taxes, it would be blatently obvious when they tried to do so.

27. #127
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 am, conservativehomeschooler said:

    I call but the Congressmen’s staffers really don’t want to talk to me if I’m out of their district. How do I handle that?

28. #128
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 am, flyfisher said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 am, Laree said:
    How much of this is being driven by George W Bush’s International Banking Buddies? How much of this is Politically Driven, we know there is a Free Market- Alternative. So who is leaning on Dubya, and by extension our body politic? Are We Sheep baa baa baa.

    That’s a good question. The story we’ve been told does not add up. However, last night Senator DeMint was on Mark Levin’s program (you can listen here…skip forward to roughly 18 minutes into the program). Senator DeMint said that his theory is that the Chinese and the Saudis have demanded that we purchase the junk paper they’ve been sold by American firms or else they will stop loaning our country money. Again, he admitted that’s his theory (and Rep. Sherman essentially said the same thing two nights ago on Larry Kudlow’s show on CNBC). If that’s true, it may explain Paulson’s urgency, but shouldn’t the American people be told the truth?

29. #129
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:20 am, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 am, Mister P said:
    interesting listening to Frank Shostek of the Von Mises institute. He is saying this whole package is just for show. Benanke will do the pumping of money anyway. The Feds have almost unlimited ability to print money anyway.

    The Fed is not our friend.

    A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960 is a book written in 1963 by Nobel laureate economist Milton Friedman and Anna J. Schwartz and is considered one of the most influential economics books of the twentieth century.

    The book details the role of money in the U.S. economy since the American Civil War. The book criticizes government interventionism (through the Federal Reserve Bank) for causing the Great Depression. The book refutes claims that the free market caused the downturn, and it claims Roosevelt’s intervention with price controls and various regulations further exacerabated the country’s economic problems after 1932. The book asserts that the death of New York Fed leader, Benjamin Strong, led to a political manipulation of the money supply causing a recession to turn into the Great Depression.

30. #130
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 am, franksalterego said:

    Let’s apply some logic…

    I think, we can all agree, that whenever money is transferred from the Private Sector to the Government Sector it’s a “bad thing”…Right?…We call it “taxation”

    So, how do you make the argument, money transferring from the Government Sector back to the Private Sector is a bad thing?

    Isn’t THAT, basically, what’s happening here?

31. #131
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 am, happyscrapper said:

    I can’t seem to get over the fact that these weasels are putting $100 Billion dollars worth of earmarks into this urgent, all-important bill. It’s like no one seems to care that we are being robbed! Take those earmarks out NOW!! I pray this won’t pass, and that the American people will know the reason…their Congress is trying to sneak their special interests into the most important piece of legislation in our history. If this is not treason, I dont’ know what is!

32. #132
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 am, ITookTheRedPill said:

    shouldn’t the American people be told the truth?

    Yes.

33. #133
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 am, Mister P said:

    We need to help our economy right now. Eliminating the IRS and implementing the Fair Tax is one of the things that will streamline and energize our economy.

    Beware of names like “Fair”. It is hardly fair. It is a massive sales tax that replaces the income tax. But what about those of us that are retiring? We will once again have to bare that huge tax burden. It is a double taxation. We have saved for our retirement in after tax money. Then when we retire and go spend it, we would get taxed once again on the same money. Does that sound fair to you?

    The Fair Tax will be roughly 28 percent of a sale. To spread it out it will be applied to house sales and rents. Are you ready to pay 280 dollars on top of a 1000 dollar rental apartment. Some may save because they are no longer paying an income tax. But those of us retiring do not HAVE an INCOME.

    I emailed the FAIR TAX people, and they just don’t like to discuss the weaknesses of their proposal.

34. #134
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:23 am, e.koenig said:

    Senator Demint is on glen beck right now and said this will unfortunately pass the house.

    Well at least these sellout rinos will be gone and we can start to build some real leadership to the right of socialism.

    John mccain lost the election last night…incompetence and hypocrisy.

    Welcome to the obamanation.

35. #135
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 am, flyfisher said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 am, franksalterego said:
    Let’s apply some logic…

    I think, we can all agree, that whenever money is transferred from the Private Sector to the Government Sector it’s a “bad thing”…Right?…We call it “taxation”

    So, how do you make the argument, money transferring from the Government Sector back to the Private Sector is a bad thing?

    Isn’t THAT, basically, what’s happening here?

    Well, it’s borrowed money. We are borrowing more than the total cost of the Iraq war so we can continue to borrow. I don’t see how that can be anything but bad. It may grease the skids for a short time, but it only hurts our longterm economic prospects. They aren’t fixing anything.

36. #136
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 am, happyscrapper said:

    I think Michelle is having trouble on her website. My comments take forever to load and I then have to go all the way out and back in again. Is anyone else having trouble? I worry that her site might crash. Hopefully it is just me.

37. #137
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:28 am, Weary Citizen said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 am, flyfisher said:

    If true, we are in much more serious trouble then. That is simple extortion and when we can be extorted by foreign gov’ts, we have lost. We are no longer independent to operate our country as we see fit. China will use this tactic to manipulate our affairs. “If you don’t do X, we will stop loaning you $”.

38. #138
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 am, Cosmo said:

    Bill Sali has been contacted. His office staff was cordial and supportive. We’ll see if that means a “no” vote or just lip service.

39. #139
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 am, ITookTheRedPill said:

    franksalterego,

    What’s happening here is that both control and money (about a Trillion dollars) is being transferred to a single unelected individual (the Secretary of the Treasury) for him to decide who gets money and who doesn’t. With no constitutional balance of power.

    If that happens, say goodby to the Free Enterprise System. If I run Bank A and Paulson gives me $1Billion, and you run Bank B and Paulson gives you $0, how are you supposed to compete with me? You can’t. I have an unfair advantage.

    Net effect? The Corporations which have been infiltrated and are controlled by Communists will put the Corporations which are run by Capitalists out of business.

    It’s already started (Bear Sterns, Lehman, Wachovia) and it would only get worse under this bill.

40. #140
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 am, DesertLover said:

    happyscrapper …

    can’t speak for others but having no problems with the site here …

41. #141
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 am, flyfisher said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 am, Mister P said

    You aren’t considering the massive amount of embedded taxes we pay every time we spend a nickle. There are estimates that 30-40% of the current cost of a home represents embedded taxes. The system we have now is true double taxation.

42. #142
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 am, MtsEdge said:

    So, how do you make the argument, money transferring from the Government Sector back to the Private Sector is a bad thing?

    It wouldn’t be a bad thing if it went back to those from whom it came (y’know the taxpayers).

43. #143
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 am, RabbidSquirrel said:

    Its time to consider our elected officials, just as they seem to consider us… as “Useful Idiots”

    ) We need to keep the ones in power that do the peoples will, as we direct them to do.

    ) The ones that do not, but are in our party, we will have to tolerate them until the next election. But at that time we will vote them out in the next (or the current) election

    ) The ones that are voting to their advantage and disregarding the will of the people HAVE TO BE THROWN OUT NOW

    Its time for a new generation

44. #144
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 am, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 am, happyscrapper said:
    I think Michelle is having trouble on her website. My comments take forever to load…

    Just FYI, I’ve noticed that either of the following causes a comment to be treated as spam:
    1) certain words (like F@rr@kh@n with ‘a’ instead of ‘@’)
    2) more than 3 links in your comment

    When a comment is marked as spam by WordPress, it won’t show up until the blog owner checks their spam queue and manually de-marks your comment.

45. #145
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 am, bear1909 said:

    Rant on:

    The Federal Bureaucracy spends money just by existing. Congress spends money just by existing.

    And now they are going to add a trillion plus interest to that behemoth paper diet.

    Tax the people by any means and it will have to be at rates that continue to feed the Obese Federal Bureaucracy.

    Only solution: Cut the size of Federal Bureaucracy—eliminate this spending stimulus in our economy and take the pain. It is the only solution.

    Reform Federal Pension rules— when the pension gravy train is the primary incentive for working for Uncle Sam, we get a lot of nesting rats bilking the system while producing nothing. Take away the incentive. Want to work in government service, then serve US not self. End of story.

    Income tax rate should never exceed 5 per cent of gross income. Individuals over age of 60 shouldnt pay a dime.

    Are we reserving the right to alter or abolish a government that no longer serves our common interests?

    The bailout is a hoax designed to save anybody who danced to AIG’s tune. And it is a distraction to keep public attention away from the real monster out there of $63 million in junk derivatives that are now floating down to earth.

    Hank Paulson, Dodd, and Frank should be wearing orange jump suits and wearing makeup. Same goes for Bubba Clinton, his cheezy wife, and Jamie Gorelick, Sandy Berger (document thief….hmmm, i wonder what was on them papers?), and Frankie Raines.

    Enough is enough.

    Rant off.

    Bear1909 out

46. #146
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 am, deusexmachina said:

    The people are working hard to convince our ‘elected representatives’ to deny this bill. This is just crazy! Unfortunately, I think they have already planned to pass it. I wonder at what point the captain of the Titanic realized that Titanic could not stay afloat — no matter what he did. Unfortunately our ‘representatives’ are still throwing snowballs and kisses at each other, playfully prancing and dancing on the now-listing deck…

47. #147
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 am, Irish Rose said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 am, happyscrapper said:

    I can’t seem to get over the fact that these weasels are putting $100 Billion dollars worth of earmarks into this urgent, all-important bill. It’s like no one seems to care that we are being robbed! Take those earmarks out NOW!!

    I hate earmarks as much as the next person, but you might want to hold off on screaming “pork!” until you know exactly what earmarks were included, and more importantly… why.

    Some of them are pure pork, inserted solely to pacify irresponsible politicians at a time when their cooperation on this bill was very sorely needed.

    But some of them were included to protect American taxpayers, and prop up vulnerable small businesses that employ a lot of people.

    I feel the same way about people who are screaming “pork!” as I do about those who are screaming “kill the bill!”. Kneejerk reactions are their modus operandi. They love to scream but they can’t be bothered to actually do some investigative work.

    It’s important to remember that not all pork is “bad” pork.

48. #148
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 am, franksalterego said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 am, flyfisher said: “It’s borrowed”

    Borrowed, schmorrowed.

    There hasn’t been a Tax Increase to cover this so-called “borrowing”…So, why should you care?

    ‘Course, we can elect a Democrat, and GUARANTEE a tax increase, if you so desire.

49. #149
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 am, conservativesRus said:

    Tonight Palin ought to say “With the information that I have been given, I think the bailout was a bad bill and Senator McCain should have voted against it. I do know though that Senator McCain was privy to information that I was not from his meeting at the White House.”
    By doing that – 90% of Americans would say – wow, that woman has guts to take on the entrenched interests – even her potential boss. Sarah’s stock would soar – and people might be willing to pull for McCain knowing there was a check and balance there even in his own administration.

50. #150
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 am, ex-expat said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 9:01 am, Irish Rose said:
    Michelle, this constant hammering to reject the bill in its’ entirety is irresponsible, dangerous and shortsighted.

    Like you, I wish that this bill did not even exist. I wish that the American economy could be strong enough to withstand this downturn without an act of intervention.

    A breath of fresh air and clarity among all these threads and posts!!!

    The desk pounders and foot stompers should take heed……..

51. #151
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 am, California Red said:

    Unfortunately our ‘representatives’ are still throwing snowballs and kisses at each other, playfully prancing and dancing on the now-listing deck…

    “I’d like to thank the distinguished chariman for his hard work and stong leadership on this issue.”

    Puke. I’d like to tell the chariman that this mess happened on his watch and he should be run out of town.

52. #152
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 am, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 am, bear1909 said:

    Ditto that.

53. #153
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 am, Irish Rose said:

    I see that the conspiracy theorists, Paulians and North American Unionists are out in big numbers today.

54. #154
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:43 am, flyfisher said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 am, franksalterego

    I was responding to a specific question as to why it wasn’t a good thing to return money to the private sector. I was making the point that the money didn’t originate in the private sector, it would be borrowed. Moreover, it’s looking as if a lot of the money will flow to foreign entities, not American banks. And anyone who is unconcerned about our continued borrowing needs to study economics. It will all come crashing down, perhaps sooner than later, if we don’t make drastic changes in the way our government handles money. We need pro-growth policies to unleash our economy. The only answer is to grow our way out of this mess. We must also cut out the entitlements. They will strangle us.

55. #155
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:44 am, Irish Rose said:

    A breath of fresh air and clarity among all these threads and posts!!!

    The desk pounders and foot stompers should take heed……..

    Not likely.
    I’m a moderate Republican.

56. #156
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:46 am, conservativesRus said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 am, Irish Rose said:
    But some of them were included to protect American taxpayers, and prop up vulnerable small businesses that employ a lot of people

    IR – therein lies the problem. Many of us do not want the government propping anything up. If a business is failing – I do not want the government propping it up. The reason it is failing is because somebody else has found a more efficient or cost effective method to accomplish the same task. The less efficient or less cost effective method needs to die out and the more efficient needs to survive.

57. #157
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 am, ex-expat said:

    Truesoldier said:
    ex-pat, the article you reference does have some points, but I think more people would be willing to look at a bailout bill

    Yes, that is the point (sorry) the problem that must be dealt with is simply not just ‘Wall Street’ or ‘Fat Cats’, someting that the moderator and most of the posts fail to realize still. I do not like the thought of tax dollors being diverted for this purpose, and there’s plently of balme to go around, but the problem will not fix itself by turning red in the face and shouting ‘hell no’.

58. #158
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 am, publiuswarmac9999 said:

    The political leadership is scared to death – and that is why there is so much talk of bipartisanship. Most of us go about our lives paying little attention to the people we send to Congress – and that has allowed them to play all kinds of games.

    Now we are watching minute to minute and it isn’t pretty. This bailout bill should be a clean problem-solving bill. Instead it is a giant Christmas tree bill that is intended to hide the truth rather than solve the problem. By the way, it is unlikely that this monstrosity will clear the House as it stands because of the extra $100 Billion worth of pork.

    Keep the pressure up.

59. #159
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 am, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:39 am, ex-expat said:
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 9:01 am, Irish Rose said:

    This bill does NOTHING to fix the problem created by Carter’s CRA, Clinton’s escalation of CRA, or Bush’s SOX.

    This bill is WORSE than doing nothing.

    This bill does not fix the problem, it creates a new one:
    an unaccoutable Treasury Secretary Czar with a Trillion$+ purse and “Supreme Executive Power”.

60. #160
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 am, conservativesRus said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 am, ex-expat said:
    …but the problem will not fix itself by turning red in the face and shouting ‘hell no’.

    The trouble is that many of us see this “solution” like a person with a broken arm going to the hospital and the hospital removes their appendix. The “solution” has nothing to do with the problem.

61. #161
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:51 am, DesertLover said:

    Irish Rose …

    FYI … $6 million to a “wooden arrows manufacturer for children” in Oregon … almost $200 million to Puerto Rican Rum manufacturers … the EXXON Valdez litigant money … those and others have already been highlighted on FNC earlier this morning …

62. #162
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:53 am, ITookTheRedPill said:

    DENNIS: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

    ARTHUR: Be quiet!

    DENNIS: Well, but you can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just ’cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

    ARTHUR: Shut up!

    DENNIS: I mean, if I went ’round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away!

    ARTHUR: Shut up, will you? Shut up!

    DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.

    ARTHUR: Shut up!

    DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I’m being repressed!

    ————————————

    Red Pill: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds Henry Paulson distributing swords money is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic Senate ceremony.

63. #163
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 am, franksalterego said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:44 am, Irish Rose said:”Not likely.
    I’m a moderate Republican.”

    I’m sick at heart…I’m sick to my stomach, that gov’t has to intervene or interfere in the private sector.

    But, what makes me even sicker is, that those responsible, and those accountable will never be brought to justice.

    This is where the “Michelle Malkins” of the world should be focusing their wrath.

64. #164
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 am, conservativesRus said:

    Wow does the market look happy that the Senate passed that bill last night.
    /gag

65. #165
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 am, PhredE said:

    I would just humbly suggest that people also not shy away from calling the Dems that voted against the bailout in the House too (there were, after all, 95 that voted against it).

    I realize their reasons for not supporting the bill are likely very different than most Repubs, but, the ‘end goal’- keeping a bad bill from being passed is ultimately more important (eg. ‘a bad bill, is still a bad bill that should not pass).

66. #166
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 am, MtsEdge said:

    Tonight Palin ought to say “With the information that I have been given, I think the bailout was a bad bill and Senator McCain should have voted against it. I do know though that Senator McCain was privy to information that I was not from his meeting at the White House.”
    By doing that – 90% of Americans would say – wow, that woman has guts to take on the entrenched interests – even her potential boss. Sarah’s stock would soar – and people might be willing to pull for McCain knowing there was a check and balance there even in his own administration.

    Beautiful!

67. #167
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:57 am, MtsEdge said:

    The less efficient or less cost effective method needs to die out and the more efficient needs to survive.

    Can anyone tell me whether any “evolutionists” support this theory?

68. #168
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:58 am, Flyoverman said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 am, PhredE said:
    I would just humbly suggest that people also not shy away from calling the Dems that voted against the bailout in the House too

    My rep is one of those. I tried and OF COURSE his website is down today. And I am SO SURE the phones will be too. How convenient.

69. #169
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:59 am, happyscrapper said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 am, Irish Rose said:
    I hate earmarks as much as the next person, but you might want to hold off on screaming “pork!” until you know exactly what earmarks were included, and more importantly… why.

    IrishRose…I understand what you are saying. However, I hear that there are earmarks for Hollywood, research on wool, etc. It makes me crazy. If we just had time for them to explain what exactly these earmarks are for…! All I know is, they tried to sneak in a huge payout to ACORN! Sorry, but that is just wrong. Is there any wonder I don’t trust the other earmarks to be good ones?

70. #170
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:00 pm, DesertLover said:

    I for one am tired of “KNEE JERK” politics and politicians …

    They can spend months “investigating” totally parisan BS but can’t take time to look into the facts about what the details are that are underlying this current situation and what needs to be done, if anything, to address the issues in a responsible and sane manner that has been thought through and reasoned out with some level of expectation of success …

    Failure and Bankruptcy are natural functions of businesses that fail to be properly managed or fail to provide a good product or service that the buying public wants and will buy …

    We are talking about bailing out failures instead of commending successes these days …

    Enough is Enough …

71. #171
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:03 pm, Irish Rose said:

    IR – therein lies the problem. Many of us do not want the government propping anything up. If a business is failing – I do not want the government propping it up.

    Would you prefer having to pay even more money to prop up millions and millions of unemployed workers and their families?

    As much as we all hate goverment intervention, there are times when it is simply necessary. This is one of those times.

    The reason it is failing is because somebody else has found a more efficient or cost effective method to accomplish the same task.

    I respectfully disagree.

72. #172
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 10:49 am, sonofdy said:

    Now might be the time to attach the “I got mine, screw you bill of 2008″ to it.

    I would like to ammed it if I may…

    I have decided that if the senate “bill” passes the house, then I am going to go back to school and get my Finance degree with a minor in Economics – so I am going to need more money. I’m going Ivy League business school all the way so be generous!

    Side note – My dog needs to renovate his doghouse and his experiencing a severve credit crunch in this downturn, so I am calling my Senator to be sure they covered in the bill they passed.

    If all of this passes, then sorry everyone, I am going to set up a real-estate, mortgage and ‘relocation’ service for any ‘migrants’ coming across the border from Mexico.

73. #173
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm, DesertLover said:

    I don’t remember all this “bail out” BS when Enron was doing basically the same thing …

74. #174
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 pm, txvet2 said:

    Pardon if somebody has already noted this, but it doesn’t seem like the markets are really happy this morning that the Senate passed the Abomination Bill.

75. #175
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 pm, Wade said:

    What I have a hard time understanding is why do they need 12 Republican votes? I thought all votes counted the same, in which case all that is needed is 12 votes, could be Republican or Democrat or Independent or or or, but just 12 votes.

76. #176
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 pm, sonofdy said:

    Thinking more and more that I don’t want to be arround when all this debt comes due.

77. #177
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:10 pm, Oink said:

    Please explain to me why Rush Limbaugh is talking TODAY about the pork in the bailout. Why not yesterday? I read it yesterday!!

78. #178
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:10 pm, sonofdy said:

    Well wade, if Pelosi was any kind of leader, she could count no the 66 DEMS who voted against the bill.

79. #179
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:10 pm, emjem24 said:

    Why can’t these idiots fix the structural problems within the economy right now? Why do we need this massive bailout? Apparently, as of this morning, with the unemployment numbers combined, the market wasn’t impressed. Even economists, who never agree on anything regarding the economy, agree that this bailout won’t help or is even necessary. Even Obummer’s economists don’t like it.

    The conservative Republicans need to stick together and not get all wobbly on us. Don’t accept “bribes” otherwise known as “tax cuts” and pork. There’s more at stake than being able to get more wooden arrows out to the kiddies or producing more rum in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.

    What’s at stake is the very direction and character of this country. If none of these politicians can see this, then we’re all screwed.

80. #180
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:10 pm, MtsEdge said:

    What I have a hard time understanding is why do they need 12 Republican votes? I thought all votes counted the same, in which case all that is needed is 12 votes, could be Republican or Democrat or Independent or or or, but just 12 votes.

    They are assuming that all the Dems will now fall in line, IMHO.

81. #181
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:11 pm, right4life said:

    As much as we all hate goverment intervention, there are times when it is simply necessary. This is one of those times.

    sure it is, those wooden arrow makers would just die without it.

    this bill does nothing to actually fix the problems that cause this. all it is a pork-laden power grab.

82. #182
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:11 pm, Martin said:

    Todd Akin, Missouri 2nd.

    Just spoke to his office, and he’s still a no.

    Took forever to get through!!

83. #183
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:12 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 pm, sonofdy said:

    Thinking more and more that I don’t want to be arround when all this debt comes due.

    Thats the problem. Most of these idiots in congress will be dead or have Alzheimers in 20 years anyway…

84. #184
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:13 pm, sonofdy said:

    then we’re all screwed

    They should all resign including all current cadidates running for president. Delay the election for 3 months, and get all new people. 100% replacements. ALL of them.

    We desperately need the “none of the above” option in our elections.

85. #185
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:14 pm, sonofdy said:

    Thats the problem. Most of these idiots in congress will be dead or have Alzheimers in 20 years anyway…

    Going back to my homeland is my option if when this all falls apart. New Zealand.

86. #186
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:15 pm, right4life said:

    I wish that the American economy could be strong enough to withstand this downturn without an act of intervention.

    yeah we’re all just gonna lie down and die unless the GUVMINT saves us…hallelujah!!

    how did humanity survive all those millenia without guvmint welfare?

    its the government’s fault that we have these problems, but they’re doing nothing to actually fix the problems with this bill. just paper it over, and hope it doesn’t happen again.

    its a moronic bill, written by morons, to prop up morons, ensuring that we’ll get more of the same behavior,and have a bigger crash in the future.

87. #187
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:16 pm, right4life said:

    Todd Akin, Missouri 2nd.

    Just spoke to his office, and he’s still a no.

    he’s a good man!

88. #188
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:20 pm, Solo said:

    this bill does nothing to actually fix the problems that cause this.

    Why fix the problem when the sheep will be more than willing to throw more borrowed money at it in a year or two?

89. #189
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:21 pm, Laree said:

    The End Of the World getting pushed back again due to scheduling conflicts:)

    http://rattlergator.typepad.com/rattlergator/2008/10/moving-the-money-from-wall-street-to-main-street.html

90. #190
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

    Going back to my homeland is my option if when this all falls apart. New Zealand.

    Ah New Zealand! The land of the Blarney stone and the Liliputians. Aye, and a fine land it is.

91. #191
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:24 pm, Irish Rose said:

    Interesting discussion.

    This is the bill that we have on the table, folks, and our government has stated that some intervention is necessary at this juncture.

    We can b*ch, whine and moan about the content of the bill all day long and into the wee hours, I suppose, but nothing is going to happen until tomorrow morning. W’ell just have to wait, and see what happens.

    Here’s hoping that the stock market remains somewhat stable, between now and then.

    I’m off to work while I still have a job to go to… bbl.

92. #192
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:30 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

    Going back to my homeland is my option if when this all falls apart. New Zealand.

    My bad, I didnt know we had a Kiwi in our midst. I’ll show you my accent if you show me yours.

    Quick! Say ‘fish and chips’ ’56′ and ‘Texas’ for us!!!! Everyone, listen Up!!

93. #193
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:30 pm, conservativehomeschooler said:

    It seems like a lot of them are answering their phones during lunch, right now.

94. #194
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:30 pm, rplatt said:

    Let the markets crash and let the decent from tall buildings without parachutes begin. We’ll pick up the pieces and rebuild our free market economy and continue to live in a nation built on individual responsibility and liberty. This solution is far better than reverting to socialist/communist state with a Marxist ruler. Where is the courage and where are the patriots . . . they certainly are not among our elected officials. It’s a sad time for the Republic.

95. #195
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:33 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 pm, sonofdy said:
    Thinking more and more that I don’t want to be arround when all this debt comes due.

    I probably won’t be around at that time, but my children and grandchildren will. I worry for them! I am not a “happyscrapper” when I think of what they might have to go through down the road.

96. #196
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:37 pm, Weary Citizen said:

    This is the bill that we have on the table, folks, and our government has stated that some intervention is necessary at this juncture.

    Oh, that’s different. The “gov’t stated” something must be done. Whew. I almost beleived all those lying economists that this was bad bill for a mintue there. Sigh!

    And “this is the bill we have on the table” is teh same argument you use for mcamensty as POTUS? Do you ever think about what is best in the long run before you open your mouth? BTW, what happened to your “I’m leaving this site and never coming back as it has been invaded by biggots/racists/ilntolerance…..”?

    This bill is flawed and most likely will not solve the problem. Even many of the idiots voting for this acknowledged it was a bad bill, but “we have to do something”. Why not get input of non partisan economists, not those who will directly benefit from this bailout, before spending upwards of a $T and expanding gov’t involvement in the economy further. You are not a moderate you are a liberal “my friend”.

97. #197
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:38 pm, Mister P said:

    This is the bill that we have on the table, folks, and our government has stated that some intervention is necessary at this juncture.

    We can b*ch, whine and moan about the content of the bill all day long and into the wee hours, I suppose, but nothing is going to happen until tomorrow morning. W’ell just have to wait, and see what happens.

    Here’s hoping that the stock market remains somewhat stable, between now and then.

    I am not concerned about the market between now and then. I am much more concerned about the market AFTER then. Have you considered what’s next if this bill does NOT WORK?

98. #198
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:41 pm, happyscrapper said:

    Thats the problem. Most of these idiots in congress will be dead or have Alzheimers in 20 years anyway

    Sorry, but some of them already have alzheimers. How else do you explain John Murtha?

99. #199
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:41 pm, sonofdy said:

    Quick! Say ‘fish and chips’ ‘56′ and ‘Texas’ for us!!!! Everyone, listen Up!!

    Did you hear it? This is why I never watched sicko, I have lived it, I don’t need a fat american to tell me about socialised medicine when I have lived it. (There is a reason alot of NZ jobs now offer private health insurance so you can go to private hospitals)

100. #200
     On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm, Buy Danish said:

     This morning a Harvard Economist was a guest on Mike Gallagher’s radio show. He said this bill is unnecessary, that the solution for these companies is to declare bankruptcy.

     He said that under the current bailout plan these companies will only release the most worthless, insolvent holdings for the government to purchase, but will hold the potential money makers in their portfolios back.

     I was driving so I didn’t catch the economists name…