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Trackbacks

1. We’re Mad as Hell Part II « Mark Epstein
2. Jim DeMint: A Voice of Reason on the Bailout : Jenn Q. Public
3. Below The Beltway » Blog Archive » Running The Numbers In The House
4. "Bail out" Bill passes first hurdle, goes to the house – Political Byline
5. Jesus is Lord, A Worshipping Christian’s Blog » Blog Archive » “Kill the bailout: Operation Hold The Line” by Michelle Malkin
6. Bear Creek Ledger
7. Cassy Fiano » BREAKING: Bailout bill passes the Senate; UPDATE: Roll call added
8. Wizbang
9. Roll call on the bailout bill : Stop The ACLU
10. miamipress.net | miamipress.net
11. The Other McCain: Morality and markets
12. What some Christian bloggers think about bailout, part Deux | blogs4God
13. Webloggin » CARP - Congressional Asset Ripoff Program
14. Plains Feeder - Senate puts Zippo to Wall Street
15. Senator Shelby lambastes bill and all the Chicken Littles — votes no at The Liberty Preservation Alliance
16. Right Wing News
17. When The Government Is Immoral « Blog Entry « Dr. Melissa Clouthier
18. Seymour Nuts » Blog Archive » Come on America - Kill This Bailout
19. BipolarNation.com » Marxism on Capitol Hill
20. The Blame Game | Faith and Facts
21. The Dan Lee Report » Blog Archive » Wall Street Bailout is now over a TRILLION Dollars, & keeps growing like a Cancer.
22. Call your Congressman TODAY….NO Socialist Bailout « Sharp Right Turn
23. Senator Inhofe: “I voted no,” on the bailout bill. « Green Country Values
24. Sen. Inhofe gets all Web 2.0 : Ft. Hard Knox
25. Hold The Line – Nicholas Fitzgerald
26. Does McCain and Obama's Support for the Bailout Bother You? | The Daily Conservative
27. McCain Landslide | Counting Sheep
28. Common Sense Journal » Blog Archive » New Bailout Bill Size of Novel, Includes Pork
29. Back To The House: Call Now on Bailout (Update: Perspective)(Another Update) « Utah Rattler
30. Michelle Malkin » Dear Congress: Put the gun down now
31. Put the gun down now « Count Us Out
32. Webloggin » How to Tell When Democrat Leaders Lie: They Open Their Mouths

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Comments

1. #201
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:11 pm, Martin said:

   Todd Akin, Missouri 2nd.

   Just spoke to his office, and he’s still a no.

   Took forever to get through!!

2. #202
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:12 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

   On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 pm, sonofdy said:

   Thinking more and more that I don’t want to be arround when all this debt comes due.

   Thats the problem. Most of these idiots in congress will be dead or have Alzheimers in 20 years anyway…

3. #203
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:13 pm, sonofdy said:

   then we’re all screwed

   They should all resign including all current cadidates running for president. Delay the election for 3 months, and get all new people. 100% replacements. ALL of them.

   We desperately need the “none of the above” option in our elections.

4. #204
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:14 pm, sonofdy said:

   Thats the problem. Most of these idiots in congress will be dead or have Alzheimers in 20 years anyway…

   Going back to my homeland is my option if when this all falls apart. New Zealand.

5. #205
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:15 pm, right4life said:

   I wish that the American economy could be strong enough to withstand this downturn without an act of intervention.

   yeah we’re all just gonna lie down and die unless the GUVMINT saves us…hallelujah!!

   how did humanity survive all those millenia without guvmint welfare?

   its the government’s fault that we have these problems, but they’re doing nothing to actually fix the problems with this bill. just paper it over, and hope it doesn’t happen again.

   its a moronic bill, written by morons, to prop up morons, ensuring that we’ll get more of the same behavior,and have a bigger crash in the future.

6. #206
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:16 pm, right4life said:

   Todd Akin, Missouri 2nd.

   Just spoke to his office, and he’s still a no.

   he’s a good man!

7. #208
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:20 pm, Solo said:

   this bill does nothing to actually fix the problems that cause this.

   Why fix the problem when the sheep will be more than willing to throw more borrowed money at it in a year or two?

8. #209
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:21 pm, Laree said:

   The End Of the World getting pushed back again due to scheduling conflicts:)

   http://rattlergator.typepad.com/rattlergator/2008/10/moving-the-money-from-wall-street-to-main-street.html

9. #210
   On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

   Going back to my homeland is my option if when this all falls apart. New Zealand.

   Ah New Zealand! The land of the Blarney stone and the Liliputians. Aye, and a fine land it is.

10. #212
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:24 pm, Irish Rose said:

    Interesting discussion.

    This is the bill that we have on the table, folks, and our government has stated that some intervention is necessary at this juncture.

    We can b*ch, whine and moan about the content of the bill all day long and into the wee hours, I suppose, but nothing is going to happen until tomorrow morning. W’ell just have to wait, and see what happens.

    Here’s hoping that the stock market remains somewhat stable, between now and then.

    I’m off to work while I still have a job to go to… bbl.

11. #213
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:30 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

    Going back to my homeland is my option if when this all falls apart. New Zealand.

    My bad, I didnt know we had a Kiwi in our midst. I’ll show you my accent if you show me yours.

    Quick! Say ‘fish and chips’ ‘56′ and ‘Texas’ for us!!!! Everyone, listen Up!!

12. #214
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:30 pm, conservativehomeschooler said:

    It seems like a lot of them are answering their phones during lunch, right now.

13. #215
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:30 pm, rplatt said:

    Let the markets crash and let the decent from tall buildings without parachutes begin. We’ll pick up the pieces and rebuild our free market economy and continue to live in a nation built on individual responsibility and liberty. This solution is far better than reverting to socialist/communist state with a Marxist ruler. Where is the courage and where are the patriots . . . they certainly are not among our elected officials. It’s a sad time for the Republic.

14. #216
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:33 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 pm, sonofdy said:
    Thinking more and more that I don’t want to be arround when all this debt comes due.

    I probably won’t be around at that time, but my children and grandchildren will. I worry for them! I am not a “happyscrapper” when I think of what they might have to go through down the road.

15. #220
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:37 pm, Weary Citizen said:

    This is the bill that we have on the table, folks, and our government has stated that some intervention is necessary at this juncture.

    Oh, that’s different. The “gov’t stated” something must be done. Whew. I almost beleived all those lying economists that this was bad bill for a mintue there. Sigh!

    And “this is the bill we have on the table” is teh same argument you use for mcamensty as POTUS? Do you ever think about what is best in the long run before you open your mouth? BTW, what happened to your “I’m leaving this site and never coming back as it has been invaded by biggots/racists/ilntolerance…..”?

    This bill is flawed and most likely will not solve the problem. Even many of the idiots voting for this acknowledged it was a bad bill, but “we have to do something”. Why not get input of non partisan economists, not those who will directly benefit from this bailout, before spending upwards of a $T and expanding gov’t involvement in the economy further. You are not a moderate you are a liberal “my friend”.

16. #221
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:38 pm, Mister P said:

    This is the bill that we have on the table, folks, and our government has stated that some intervention is necessary at this juncture.

    We can b*ch, whine and moan about the content of the bill all day long and into the wee hours, I suppose, but nothing is going to happen until tomorrow morning. W’ell just have to wait, and see what happens.

    Here’s hoping that the stock market remains somewhat stable, between now and then.

    I am not concerned about the market between now and then. I am much more concerned about the market AFTER then. Have you considered what’s next if this bill does NOT WORK?

17. #222
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:41 pm, happyscrapper said:

    Thats the problem. Most of these idiots in congress will be dead or have Alzheimers in 20 years anyway

    Sorry, but some of them already have alzheimers. How else do you explain John Murtha?

18. #223
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:41 pm, sonofdy said:

    Quick! Say ‘fish and chips’ ‘56′ and ‘Texas’ for us!!!! Everyone, listen Up!!

    Did you hear it? This is why I never watched sicko, I have lived it, I don’t need a fat american to tell me about socialised medicine when I have lived it. (There is a reason alot of NZ jobs now offer private health insurance so you can go to private hospitals)

19. #224
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm, Buy Danish said:

    This morning a Harvard Economist was a guest on Mike Gallagher’s radio show. He said this bill is unnecessary, that the solution for these companies is to declare bankruptcy.

    He said that under the current bailout plan these companies will only release the most worthless, insolvent holdings for the government to purchase, but will hold the potential money makers in their portfolios back.

    I was driving so I didn’t catch the economists name…

20. #225
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm, fred5676 said:

    A few suggestions:

    1. Call Capitol Hill Switchboard TOLL FREE:

    1-877 851-6437

    1-800 828-0498

    1-866 340-9281

    1-866 338-1015

    1-866 220-0044

    2. Call your Rep.’s local office.

    3. Use the email on your Rep.’s individual web site.

21. #226
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:24 pm, Irish Rose said:
    Interesting discussion.

    This is the bill that we have on the table, folks, and our government has stated that some intervention is necessary at this juncture.

    We can b*ch, whine and moan about the content of the bill all day long and into the wee hours, I suppose, but nothing is going to happen until tomorrow morning. W’ell just have to wait, and see what happens.

    IrishRose…We are just venting our frustrations. Cut us some slack, please.

22. #227
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:45 pm, Flag2911 said:

    All the news media are still calling it the 700 billion bailout. I wonder why they refuse to now call it the 805 billion bailout? Can anyone think of a reason?????? LOL

23. #228
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:46 pm, MtsEdge said:

    You are not a moderate you are a liberal “my friend”.

    I would add that most libs would describe themselves as “moderate.”

24. #229
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:48 pm, madchef said:

    The folks that benefit most from the bailout, Wall street, banks, CEO’s and congress critters are able to manipulate the markets up or down in order to scare voters into this bailout. However, they were unable to influence the asian markets on monday. Congress tried to scare us into expecting a total melt down but it didn’t happen. If the house defeats this bill again, I predict that the next big drop in the market will come on Monday Oct.6th, the day after the temporary ban on Short Selling expires.
    Don’t fret, as it will go back up on the 7th, further proof that they are trying to trick us.

25. #230
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:54 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:41 pm, sonofdy said:

    So was it you the other day saying about how left NZ and Australia was? I take it, that they are ‘a nice place to visit’ but not to live.

    I was in hanging out on the Embankment in London a few months ago with a Kiwi, a guy from South Africa and a guy from Manchester. We had the entire world covered and the accents were incredible (although NONE of us personally had an accent LOL)

26. #231
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm, fred5676 said:

    Did anyone see the plan put forward by Fazio and Kaptur on Lou Dobbs?

    A plan suggested by the former head of the FDIC, which plan worked for the Savings and Loan bailout in 80’s. Why not start with something that seemed to work??

    William Isaac, then chair of FDIC, used only $1.8B from the FDIC insurance fund to resolve $100B of bank problems.

    No taxpayer funds at risk.

    Duh.

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/09/30/ldt.kaptur.defazio.intv.cnn

27. #232
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:00 pm, emjem24 said:

    IR #43:

    I know where you’re coming from but I’ll have to disagree. You’re speaking out of fear.

    A massive bailout will not fix this problem. It will only cover the fundametal problems with funny money and pork. If lawmakers (or is that porkmakers?) do not address problems such as the CRA, the two FM’s, the FHA, the HUDD, and the Mark to Market rules, nothing will change.

    So are you saying that we, as a country, should abide by a bill that is not only “imperfect” but loaded with pork? If the bill is what is needed, why load it with “sweeteners” and “pork?” Are you willing to trade your liberties for a bag of gold? Is this where it comes down to? For us as a country?

    Your opinion doesn’t speak well for our future as a country. We’ll be like France, the UK, or for that matter Spain. Many of those European citizens are more concerned with their freebies and “economic security” rather than their rights. The inherent character of what distinguished those European countries has changed into a massive socialism swallowing them up.

    IR, it’s not like no one here doesn’t want some kind of intervention. However, there’s been no discussion of this debacle. Lawmakers are in a hurry to throw some money around, show that they care, when all they really want is to win reelection. That doesn’t really boost my confidence in their abilities

    I would rather that the structural integrity of the economy, including the mortgage industry, be fixed and reformed, rather than it be addressed by printing more money that we don’t have and that the taxpayers can’t spare. Some of us already struggle with higher taxes and it’s a slap in the face that we’ll be taxed some more. Don’t you have a problem with that?

28. #233
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:01 pm, drfredc said:

    A TARP is a TARP is a TARP. A Tarp is something you throw over something to protect it from discovery and/or erosion.

    2008 TARP = Troubled Asset Relief Program = Taxpayerbacked Asset Reparations Program

29. #234
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:01 pm, sonofdy said:

    So was it you the other day saying about how left NZ and Australia was?

    Probably.

    It is a nice place to live and visit. You just have to accept huge taxes if you live there. 12 sales tax plus 27 -35% income tax. It may be better than bankrupt america if when that happens.

30. #235
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:02 pm, Mister P said:

    Did anyone see the plan put forward by Fazio and Kaptur on Lou Dobbs?

    I did, both are even Democrats I believe. Tell you the truth I hadn’t realized it only cost 1.8 billion. I had assumed we lost 100 billion in that bail out. Isaac I believe is dead set against this bailout.

    But voting down the bailout is not enough. We must also stop Benanke from adding “liquidity to the tune of 500 billion.” That liquidity is MONEY.

31. #236
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:08 pm, conservativesRus said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:03 pm, Irish Rose said:
    As much as we all hate goverment intervention, there are times when it is simply necessary. This is one of those times.

    NO – I strongly disagree. The gov’t is not supposed to save me from myself.
    I do not find that in the constitution anywhere.
    You ask government to be your savior – I do not.
    This is NOT one of those times for government intervention. You are scared – which is understandable given the lies that are put forth by the media and politicians. Until “they” can accurately describe the problem in real financial terms and give it’s magnitude – I contend it’s a manufactured problem.
    Just like “real doctors” describe medical conditions in medical terms, so do economists describe economic conditions in definable/concrete economic terms. “Clogged credit market” is not a definable/concrete term.

32. #237
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:11 pm, Mister P said:

    Good news. Due to lack of jobs, 500,000 illegal immigrants went back home.

33. #238
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:13 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

    Was just listening to Diane Feinsteins comments on the congressional floor….

    She received 90,000 calls/emails of which 85,000 were opposed to this legislation.

    And she says that the 85000 people dont understand and are misunderstanding the situation.

    Hmmm, only 5,000 “smart” people in Cali that “get” it. /sarc

34. #239
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:13 pm, franksalterego said:

    Is there no way, to turn this conversation into how we can drag Barney Frank and Chris Dodd out, and hang them from the nearest lamppost?

35. #240
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:13 pm, right4life said:

    This is the bill that we have on the table, folks, and our government has stated that some intervention is necessary at this juncture.

    do you beleive everything the government tells you?

    Here’s hoping that the stock market remains somewhat stable, between now and then.

    its down over 300 now, how can that be with this bill passing the senate? by all logic it should have the market soaring…IF it fixed the problems

    the MARKET has spoken, it does not.

36. #241
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:14 pm, sambo said:

    Oh boy, wait till the libs here about this one…
    This bill has a tax credit in it for wooden arrows for kids (archery).

    In a move guaranteed to further outrage helpless liberal feminists and others threatened by Governor Sarah Palin’s (R-Alaska) accomplishments and devotion to choice while also “clinging to guns and religion,” Lakota Industries has introduced the Sarah-Cuda, an archery set named in her honor. In pink.

    The Sarah-Cuda is a tribute to women everywhere who embrace the sport of archery and bow hunting. Women who face the challenges of adversity and demonstrate the courage and strength to survive in today’s world, yet have the caring heart and tenderness of good wives, mothers, sisters and daughters. This is a tribute to women like Sarah Palin who bear the responsibility of family and work while strengthening the moral fiber of society. (snip)

    It is also a tribute to America’s hard working women and to further promote the attitude and philosophy that Sarah Palin has demonstrated throughout her life. Lakota Industries will donate 10% of the proceeds from the sale of these beautifully handcrafted bows to the National Association for Down Syndrome. This is a small token of our profound respect and gratitude for the tireless efforts of the caregivers and parents of these extraordinary people.

    Now maybe it will get ’shot’ down.

37. #242
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:15 pm, sonofdy said:

    RabbidSquirrel: Don’t worry, the 85,000 just need to be “re-educated”

38. #243
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm, conservativesRus said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm, fred5676 said:
    Why not start with something that seemed to work??

    Fred you are assuming the goal is to have something that works. I submit that is not the goal. The goal is power.

39. #244
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm, right4life said:

    from moneycentral:

    Worries also persist over the plan’s prospects for success, even if it’s enacted. Credit markets remain tight, indicating lenders are skeptical. “There’s no lending. Most money markets are frozen,” Pang Meng Yam, a money market dealer at KBC Bank in Singapore, told Bloomberg News.

    but surely they know Dodd Pelosi, Frank et al are financial gurus…right.

    the market isn’t fooled like so many gullible senators and dem sheeple.

40. #245
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:21 pm, Reg.conservative said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 am, Mister P said:
    We need to help our economy right now. Eliminating the IRS and implementing the Fair Tax is one of the things that will streamline and energize our economy.

    Beware of names like “Fair”. It is hardly fair. I agree Fair TAX /sales tax is the worst way to go.

41. #246
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:24 pm, madchef said:

    Conservative Rus said;

    Until “they” can accurately describe the problem in real financial terms and give it’s magnitude – I contend it’s a manufactured problem.

    Exactly, which is why the ONLY fix they want is $700B dollars, even though there are many other options that aren’t being considered such as chapter 11, loans with interest, ect…
    I believe that their goal is to severely devalue the dollar so that we are forced to form a North American Union with a common currency that would be easier for global markets to manipulate.
    I haven’t heard anyone on the hill to repeal the $300B dollar farm bill that was passed a few months ago, which would free up some capital. Use some of that money free up credit, if it really is tight.

42. #248
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:26 pm, corkie said:

    From another thread but on-topic.

    On September 24th, 2008 at 3:30 pm, right4life said:

    buffet’s style isn’t to invest on a wing and a prayer. he understands risk and value better than anyone else in the country. he’s going to make money on that investment no matter what congress does, he holds things for years and years.

    Hey, right4life, you might be interested to know that Warren Buffet doesn’t seem to share the same confidence as you in his Goldman investment.

    He’s being quoted from the Charlie Rose show as saying that if Congress doesn’t approve the bailout plan soon, “I will have done some dumb things.”

43. #249
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:26 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

    If we are in a crisis and about to fall into the abyss…. then WHY isnt someone from the White House or Congress holding a 24×7 Press Conference showing EACH and EVERY company that is going down in flames.

    Don Runsfled and the Pentagon did it for the military during the early days of the war.

    If the US and/or the world is about to collapse, then the govenment owes it to us to keep us up-to-date on a minute-by-minute basis!!!!

    But they are not, so is this really that big of a crisis? Guess not.

    A pretend congressional all-nighter last week is NOT crisis management or risk mitigation.

44. #250
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:29 pm, franksalterego said:

    There is no such thing as a “Fair” tax.

    No matter how you do it.

    In an “equal” society, the poor can’t be expected to pay as much as the rich, and the rich can’t be expected to carry the load for the poor.

    The best you can hope for is, to make everyone rich, so they can pay an equal share.

45. #251
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:33 pm, right4life said:

    He’s being quoted from the Charlie Rose show as saying that if Congress doesn’t approve the bailout plan soon, “I will have done some dumb things.”

    he’s a big lib, so stupidity is to be expected.

46. #252
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:34 pm, right4life said:

    from your article:

    Berkshire, based in Omaha, Neb., announced Wednesday afternoon it would buy $3 billion of preferred shares of General Electric Co., which carry a 10 percent dividend. The terms are similar to those Buffett struck with Goldman Sachs last week when Berkshire invested $5 billion in preferred Goldman Sachs shares with a 10 percent dividend.

    I wonder if he’s just spreading a little disinformation….he’s out there buying….

47. #253
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:35 pm, old_texan said:

    “All in all it’s just another brink in the Wall”….Pink Floyd

    Say so long to the Federalist system and capitalism, the first soldier has fallen. Welcome in the new era of socialist/communist Amerika!

    Resistance is futile…you WILL be assemilated!

48. #254
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:40 pm, Rob said:

    I think this says it all…

    Warren Buffett said Thursday that it is crucial to the global economy that the controversial $700 billion Wall Street bailout passes, but warned that the pricetag may have to rise.

    “If we don’t get [this] solved next week, I may go back to delivering papers,”

49. #255
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:44 pm, right4life said:

    “If we don’t get [this] solved next week, I may go back to delivering papers,”

    or he may get some more companies at a fire sale…

    what he says moves the market, maybe he’s just looking for a good buying opportunity…

50. #256
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:45 pm, corkie said:

    So, last week you said;

    you’re delusional if you think Buffet hasn’t looked at this from every angle. He runs an insurance company, remember? I’m sure he’s used to regulation, and he’s factored it in.

    And now you’re saying;

    he’s a big lib, so stupidity is to be expected.

    Are you now implying that he’s stupid? If so, then would you agree that his Goldman Sachs investment might not have been too smart? If so, then would you agree that smart people probably shouldn’t be doing these type deals in the absence of this bill?

51. #257
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:45 pm, franksalterego said:

    Say so long to the Federalist system and capitalism, the first soldier has fallen. Welcome in the new era of socialist/communist Amerika!

    Resistance is futile…you WILL be assemilated!

    That’s just crazy-talk.

    All that’s happening is the gov’t taking up temporarily bad mortgages, and putting money into market capitalization.

    Market Capitalization is the “Money in the Bank” corporations need to keep doing business – making payrolls, expanding, buying their raw materials.

    This keeps the CAPITALIST system going.

52. #258
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:48 pm, right4life said:

    Are you now implying that he’s stupid?

    he’s a liberal, doesn’t that say it all??

    If so, then would you agree that his Goldman Sachs investment might not have been too smart? If so, then would you agree that smart people probably shouldn’t be doing these type deals in the absence of this bill?

    read my subsequent posts…he just dropped 3B in GE…I think he’s talking the market down, to get some good deals…

53. #259
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:49 pm, ElCee said:

    Just faxed my congressman’s local office. I sure hope he gets the message this time.

54. #260
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm, right4life said:

    This keeps the CAPITALIST system going.

    this puts the government as the mortgage holder of your house.

    this is SOCIALISM.

55. #261
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm, conservativesRus said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:45 pm, franksalterego said:

    Market Capitalization is the “Money in the Bank” corporations need to keep doing business – making payrolls, expanding, buying their raw materials.

    I might be wrong – I’m not aware that any company I’ve ever worked for had to borrow money to make payroll. If a company is that strapped for cash, I can’t believe they really have an ongoing entity. Maybe borrow money for raw material purchases to meet orders, but not to meet payroll. Please quit drinking at the Barney Frank/Chris Dodd talking point kool-aid fountain.

56. #262
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:56 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    To quote the great Lady Thatcher: “This is no time to go wobbly.”

    Reagan and Thatcher. Wow. Now we have, uh, who do we have…?

57. #263
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:04 pm, Rob said:

    All that’s happening is the gov’t taking up temporarily bad mortgages YOUR MONEY, and putting money into market capitalization.

58. #264
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:04 pm, flyfisher said:

    Short Youtube video here featuring Senator DeMint and Rep. Sherman from California. If this video is correct, we have been lied to about the fundamental need for this bill.

59. #265
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:08 pm, corkie said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:48 pm, right4life said:

    Gotcha.

    Last week he was a genius that doesn’t take regulatory risk.

    Now he’s stupid and attempting to put pressure on the market after investing $8B in financial companies.

    Here’s the problem with your logic. Nothing that he is saying would be pressuring the market. He’s saying that he believes that the market will be fine if a bill passes and that he believes that a bill will pass.

60. #266
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:12 pm, flyfisher said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm, conservativesRus said:
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:45 pm, franksalterego said:

    Market Capitalization is the “Money in the Bank” corporations need to keep doing business – making payrolls, expanding, buying their raw materials.
    I might be wrong – I’m not aware that any company I’ve ever worked for had to borrow money to make payroll. If a company is that strapped for cash, I can’t believe they really have an ongoing entity. Maybe borrow money for raw material purchases to meet orders, but not to meet payroll. Please quit drinking at the Barney Frank/Chris Dodd talking point kool-aid fountain.

    Many many healthy companies use short term loans to meet payroll. It is a very common practice. Wise businessmen know how to employ their capital for maximum return. Often it is cheaper to borrow for payroll than it would be to lose a more profitable opportunity. I’m a tax attorney and CPA and I’ve discussed this very issue with clients many times through the years. Also, short term loans are used to smooth out cash flows. A company can show huge profits, but have a cash flow problem in part due to slow pay from customers. Some businesses earn the bulk of their money during a particular season. They may use lines of credit to keep the bills paid out-of-season. In short, the use of lines of credit are not indicative of a firm in trouble.

61. #267
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:13 pm, right4life said:

    Gotcha.

    oh yes, you’re a legend in your own mind. truth is I got you, you’ve been stewin on this for week or more LOSER!!!

    Last week he was a genius that doesn’t take regulatory risk.

    you even have to lie about what I said. you must be a LIBERAL. I said he’s planning on making money, one way or the other…duhhhhh

62. #268
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:13 pm, franksalterego said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm, right4life said:this puts the government as the mortgage holder of your house.

    No it doesn’t…Not if I’ve kept up with the payments.

63. #269
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:14 pm, Valiant said:

    Just called my local lib Congressman wgo voted for this disaster earlier. The staffer said the calls were overwhelmingly against the bill.

    Call your lib’s local office! It may make a difference.

64. #270
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:21 pm, Marie said:

    THIS IS AN “OCTOBER SURPRISE”

    CREDIT CRISIS GENERATED BY DEMOCRATS.

    INSTITUTIONS WILL NOT EXTEND CREDIT UNTIL THEY FIND OUT HOW MUCH THEY WILL GET OUT OF THIS BILL.

65. #271
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:22 pm, franksalterego said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm, conservativesRus said:

    I might be wrong – I’m not aware that any company I’ve ever worked for had to borrow money to make payroll.

    You most certainly ARE wrong, if you’ve ever worked for a business, financed by the stock market.

    Market Capitalization is how much “investor money” is in the “Bank”

    As for small, privately owned businesses, most of them have a line of credit, they operate on…That’s their “Money in the Bank”

66. #272
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm, right4life said:

    No it doesn’t…Not if I’ve kept up with the payments.

    ever hear of freddy and fannie? they were ‘quasi’ public before, now they’re government entities.

67. #273
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm, conservativesRus said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:12 pm, flyfisher said:

    I’m sorry I mis-communicated what I was trying to say. I too have used the money from a line of credit to meet payroll in a particular time so as to manage cash flow. That is entirely different than having to go get credit for the purpose of meeting payroll.
    Further – lines of credit are “usually” set up in advance – based on ongoing financial conditions. So this notion that companies can’t meet payroll because they can’t get a line of credit just doesn’t quite wash with me.

68. #274
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm, right4life said:

    THIS IS AN “OCTOBER SURPRISE”

    CREDIT CRISIS GENERATED BY DEMOCRATS.

    bingo!

69. #275
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:26 pm, Marie said:

    THIS IS ROPE A DOPE!

70. #276
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:28 pm, John Deaux said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm, conservativesRus said:
    So this notion that companies can’t meet payroll because they can’t get a line of credit just doesn’t quite wash with me.

    It doesn’t wash with me, either. Car dealerships finance their inventory with credit lines also. These are set up with a limit in advance. The first we’ll see of a credit crunch will be when businesses go to expand these credit lines or start new operations, etc.

71. #277
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:29 pm, abqalan said:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t a company that has to borrow to meet its payroll have a problem to begin with? Why are we bailing out an already failing entity?

72. #278
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:34 pm, flyfisher said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm, conservativesRus said:
    So this notion that companies can’t meet payroll because they can’t get a line of credit just doesn’t quite wash with me.

    Ah, that’s different. On that we agree.

73. #279
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:34 pm, old_texan said:

    franksalterego
    Sounds like you are for this bill. Have you bothered to READ any of it. Did you not read that the Secretary of Treasury has the ability to mitigate any of the mortgage loans to keep that mortgage from foreclosure? Section 109a. This isn’t socialism? Where one person can give money to whoever he wishes to keep from foreclose? This is the market system? I think not.

74. #280
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:40 pm, franksalterego said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:29 pm, abqalan said:
    Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t a company that has to borrow to meet its payroll have a problem to begin with? Why are we bailing out an already failing entity?

    Most businesses begin with a loan… The size of which is determined by whatever the bank is willing to establish as your line of credit.

    Let’s say, you wanted to buy into a franchise, and you didn’t have the whole nut… You go to the Bank and say, I have $100,000, but I need $200,000 to buy the franchise… So, if you have good credit, they’ll establish your line of credit.. And you get to operate in the red… On someone else’s money.

    And, for tax purposes, the advantage is obvious.

75. #281
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:44 pm, conservativesRus said:

    Kinda interesting – foxnews.com now has an article “Economists Raise Concerns About Bailout Plan”.
    Soooo… economists who study these things think it’s not necessary, but (mostly) lawyers who can’t run a restaurant think it is. So let’s rush headlong and get our bill passed before too many more objections come up.

76. #282
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:47 pm, corkie said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:13 pm, right4life said:

    oh yes, you’re a legend in your own mind. truth is I got you, you’ve been stewin on this for week or more LOSER!!!

    Try to relax. I used “gotcha” to mean that I understood your point (albeit sarcastically) – not to mean that I had caught you in some lie.

    you even have to lie about what I said. you must be a LIBERAL. I said he’s planning on making money, one way or the other…duhhhhh

    I didn’t mean to lie about what you said. I agree that you didn’t exactly state that he was a genius. However, I could post quote after quote of you claiming that he was insulated from any regulatory risk (disclaimer: I’m paraphrasing). But you sound rattled enough.

77. #283
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:51 pm, corkie said:

    September Madness

    Is your bank going to the final four?

78. #284
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:55 pm, right4life said:

    However, I could post quote after quote of you claiming that he was insulated from any regulatory

    you really are obsessed with me aren’t you?

    go ahead this should be good.

79. #285
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:57 pm, right4life said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:47 pm, corkie said

    since you’re off topic anyway, why dont argue about evolution? or pick your topic, should be fun…and you just want my attention anyway apparently…

    

80. #286
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:04 pm, FloatingRock said:

    Your home will be their castle.

81. #287
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:05 pm, Lonevoyageur said:

    While one might criticize the practice, the modern Western business model is based upon leverage. Large enterprises do not operate as does a household or small business. A manufacturing company normally has four to six dollars in debt for each dollar invested. A service company has five to eight dollars in debt for each dollar invested. A regulated financial institution will have as much as twelve dollars in debt for each dollar invested. An unregulated financial institution (i.e. an investment bank) could have as much as thirty or thirty-five dollars in debt for each dollar invested.

    As the financial markets deregulated over the past thirty years, more and more enterprises borrowed directly from “Wall Street,” bypassing banks. Much of this borrowing is in the form of short term commercial paper. Most commercial paper is advanced by money market funds.

    If, as has occured the past fortnight, the money funds face significant withdrawals in the face of a worsening credit market two things happen: (a) there is less money to invest in short term obligations and (b) what money there is invested in the safest instruments (i.e. U.S. Treasury notes and bonds). The result is that those companies which are leveraged and fund their cash needs in the commercial paper market are caught. Yes, they have back-up bank lines of credit in most instances. However, utilization of those lines of credit is both (a) very expensive and (b) likely to trigger credit downgrades and possible default of long term debt. Hence, “making payroll” – which is one of the biggest cash drains – becomes an issue.

    Now, whether a $2 trillion dollar injection of liquidity (TARP plus the ECB actions plus the FRB’s open market activities the past ten days) will “unstick” the system is unknown and opinions differ.

    Peace.

82. #289
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:11 pm, jkline23 said:

    Please check out the link. I have a hard time swallowing the $$$ figure but the author of this article makes some good points.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122230704116773989.html

83. #290
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:14 pm, corkie said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 2:55 pm, right4life said:

    you really are obsessed with me aren’t you?

    go ahead this should be good.

    Nah, you’re rattled enough. But if Buffet loses money in his Goldman investment, then I might change my mind…..just kidding.

    

    BTW, I’m not liberal. A quick dig of my comments would reveal that.

84. #291
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:17 pm, Utah Transplant said:

    Check out who got paid my the finance sector before trying to give your money back to them.

    Open Secrets

85. #292
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:18 pm, Donut44 said:

    Sorry everyone for coming to the party late and maybe someone has already seen this, but I was wondering about a list of the pork with the dollars associated with them. Has someone compiled this that I can see?

86. #293
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:19 pm, right4life said:

    Nah, you’re rattled enough.

    projection

87. #294
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:30 pm, theporch said:

    KILL THIS BILL NOW!!!!
    Hollywood could get a cut of the bailout
    Now producers would be able to immediately deduct all production costs up to $15 million, regardless of the movie’s total budget. The change also extends the existing credit, which was due to expire this year, to December 2009.The package making its way through Congress includes tax breaks for shooting in the U.S.

88. #295
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:32 pm, happyscrapper said:

    Methinks there is something afoot between corkie and right4life! Could this be love?

89. #296
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:34 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    On October 2nd, 2008 at 1:21 pm, Reg.conservative said:

    We need to help our economy right now. Eliminating the IRS and implementing the Fair Tax is one of the things that will streamline and energize our economy.

    Beware of names like “Fair”. It is hardly fair. I agree Fair TAX /sales tax is the worst way to go.

    In today’s system, illegal aliens pay no income tax.

    In the Fair Tax system, illegal aliens would receive no “prebate”.

    The Fair Tax turns the tables and makes being an illegal a tax disadvantage instead of a tax advantage.

    Which is more fair to you?

    In today’s system, half of the population pays 97% of the taxes, while the other half pays only 3%. Do you think that’s fair?

    In today’s system, how much effort do we waste just doing our taxes?

90. #297
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:35 pm, Marie said:

    National City Bank is offering 5% on a CD. Their stock is in the toilet. Should I rollover my IRA CD to this bank?

91. #298
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:35 pm, hayroller15 said:

    I’m with you abqalan. Both me and my father run businesses and if your borrowing money to make weekly payroll your finished.

92. #299
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:41 pm, Marie said:

    Correction, National City is offering 5.25% on a 3 year CD, should I rollover my IRA CD to this bank?

93. #300
    On October 2nd, 2008 at 3:46 pm, old_texan said:

    This bill is a lard sandwich, stuffed full of pork fat. Check this:

    SEC. 305. MODIFICATIONS OF ENERGY EFFICIENT APPLIANCE CREDIT FOR APPLIANCES PRODUCED AFTER 2007.

    IN GENERAL.—Subsection (b) of section 45M is amended to read as follows:

    (b) APPLICABLE AMOUNT.—For purposes of sub20 section (a)—
    21 (1) DISHWASHERS.—The applicable amount is—
    (A) $45 in the case of a dishwasher which is manufactured in calendar year 2008 or 2009 and which uses no more than 324 kilowatt hours per year and 5.8 gallons per cycle, and

    (B) $75 in the case of a dishwasher
    which is manufactured in calendar year 2008, 2009, or 2010 and which uses no more than 307 kilowatt hours per year and 5.0 gallons per cycle (5.5 gallons per cycle for dishwashers signed for greater than 12 place settings).

    CLOTHES WASHERS.—The applicable
    amount is—
    (A) $75 in the case of a residential top loading clothes washer manufactured in calendar year 2008 which meets or exceeds a 1.72 modified energy factor and does not exceed a 15 8.0 water consumption factor,

    (B) $125 in the case of a residential top loading clothes washer manufactured in calendar year 2008 or 2009 which meets or exceeds a 1.8 modified energy factor and does not exceed a 7.5 water consumption factor,

    (C) $150 in the case of a residential or
    commercial clothes washer manufactured in calendar year 2008, 2009, or 2010 which meets or
    exceeds 2.0 modified energy factor and does not exceed a 6.0 water consumption factor, and

    (D) $250 in the case of a residential or
    2 commercial clothes washer manufactured in calendar year 2008, 2009, or 2010 which meets or exceeds 2.2 modified energy factor and does not
    exceed a 4.5 water consumption factor.

    WAIT! Excuse me but what do washers have to do with helping out the financial systems?? What the hell is going on up there on the hill?