Sarah vs. Smirky: Vice presidential debate thread
Are you ready? I’m praying and pulling for Sarah Palin. I know you are, too. Let’s go.
8:01pm Eastern. Will Gwen Ifill disclose or won’t she?
Nothing.
The candidates walk out. Sarah looks lovely and confident.
She asks Biden, “Nice to meet you. Hey, can I call you Joe?”
First question: The bailout.
Biden launches into a Bush attack. He sounds tired recyling his tired, corporate-bashing talking points.
Palin’s turn. “Has this been a good time or bad time for the economy. Ask parents at their kids’ soccer. Fear about borrowing money, paying for inventory. Our economy is hurting. Government hasn’t provided proper oversight. Segues to McCain sounding the alarm on Fannie/Freddie reform.”
Trumped Biden on connecting with ordinary Americans. Excellent answer, much better job than Biden at pushing McCain as a leader on “reform.” (Ok, well except for the fact that McCain voted for the bailout behemoth.)
Biden responds by quoting McCain on touting the fundamentals of the economy.
Palin says McCain was talking about the American workforce being sound. American workers. That’s what he meant. What I’ve done as governor and mayor is putting partisan politics aside to get the job done. Obama’s a partisan. Get done to getting business done. Tired of politics as usual. I respect your many years in the Senate, but people are craving something different. Something new.
She is on.
Take that, doubters.
Q: Who’s responsible for the subprime crisis?
Palin agrees there were predatory lenders, greed, and corruption. Echoing McCain. “We need to band together and say never again.”
9:10pm Eastern. Excellent – she’s talking about personal responsibility. Don’t get in debt. We can learn good lessons.
Palin is fresh, cogent, on message.
Biden looks tired. Did I mention that?
He’s laughably asserting that Obama was warning about the subprime crisis two years ago. Now, trying to come across as the Everyman’s crusader.
Palin zeroes in on Obama’s tax increase votes – 94 times. 94 times. That’s not what we need to create jobs. Government’s going to have to be more efficient – and do more less if that’s what’s needed.
Biden protests the tax increase charge and pushes McCain as reckless deregulator.
Palin is not intimidated. “I may not answer the question the way the moderator or you want, but I’m going to answer and talk straight to the American people.” Reiterates the tax increase charge, then cites her experience as mayor and governor.
Ifill gets testy. Cuts Palin off. Turns to health care. Smirky smirks. Goes back to taxes. This is good for Palin.
Palin takes issue with redistribution of wealth. “You said paying higher taxes is patriotic. In the middle-class, where I’m from, that’s not patriotic. You’re the problem.”
She is rolling him.
“Age of Obama” asks if she’s interested in defending McCain’s health care plan.
I am, says Palin with a glowing smile. Cites $5,000 tax credit for health care, budget-neutral. Purchasing across state line. Affordability and accessibility.
Biden: “I don’t know where to start.” Tries to out-blue-collar Palin. Wah. “We don’t call that redistribution. We call that fairness.”
Boy, he looks and sound tired. Don’t you think?
Biden rails another few minutes and calls McCain’s plan the “ultimate bridge to nowhere.” Laughter from audience.
Ifill gives the next question to…Joe Biden. A lot of smoke blown and then he stumble “character, char-, characterize.”
Man, he’s tired.
Palin reminds Biden that Obama voted for oil industry tax breaks in energy legislation a few years ago. “I had to fight them…What I had to do was break up a monopoly. The people have to come first. Obama voted for that plan. I, as a governor, had to undo that.”
Ifill: So there’s nothing you’ve promised as a candidate that you would take back to pass the bailout plan. No, there’s not. How long have I been at this? Five weeks. So, there’s not a lot that I’ve promised. Nothing I’d go back on. And nothing that McCain has promised that he wouldn’t go back on, either.
Biden acknowledges that Palin opposed windfall profits tax. He acknowledges that she fought the oil companies as governor. “I give her credit for it.”
Round to Palin, again.
9:30pm Eastern. Ifill asks about climate change.
As the nation’s only arctic state, we feel the impacts. I’m not willing to attribute everything to man’s activities, but there are changes going on. I don’t want to argue about causes. I want to get to positively changing the impacts of climate. (Yikes.) First garble. “We’ve got to become energy independent.” I understand why she’d be a little tied up here — her position has been opposite on McCain’s.
Biden is trying to draw a contrast between Obama and McCain on this. McCain is right next to or to the left of Obama. Always has been. Give me a break. Biden complains about “Drill drill drill.”
Palin corrects him: The chant is “Drill, baby, drill!” And we hear it all across the country. Obama and Biden have said no to any alternatives. They’ve likened drilling to raping. Palin points out that Biden opposed clean coal. Biden says he was taken out of context.
Ifill rescues Biden and switches to same-sex benefits coverage, “like they have in Alaska.”
Biden goes on and on. Yes. Would you support expanding that to the rest of the country?
Not if it leads to redefining marriage. Says she wants to be straight up that she opposes same-sex marriage. Clear: “I am tolerant.”
Biden echoes. He is against it.
“Age of Obama” says: Wonderful. You agree.
Moves on to foreign policy. You both have sons in Iraq. Surge/Iraq question:
Palin: Touts McCain on the surge. We have got to win in Iraq. Senator Biden, I respected you when you called Barack Obama out on that. You said it was political and it would cost lives.
It would be a travesty if we quit now in Iraq.
Good answer, great delivery, great dig at Biden.
He winced.
Score!
Biden: “We will end this war.”
Palin: “Your plan is a white flag of surrender.”
She should have said: You will end this war? Well, we will WIN this war.
She adds another dig. Reminds Biden that he said he would be honored to run on a ticket with McCain. And reminds him that he said that Obama was not ready to be commander in chief.
Biden smirks.
ZING!
Ifill moves on to Pakistan and Iran. Which is a greater nuclear threat?
Biden brags that he’s been working on this for a long time.
We know, we know.
Biden attacks McCain on Pakistan.
Palin: Both are extremely dangerous, of course. Iraq is a central front in war on al Qaeda. Gen. Petraeus tells us, don’t believe it.
Palin goes after Ajad on his annihilation of Israel rhetoric. Ajad, Castro brothers, Kim Jong Il – Obama says he’d meet without preconditions.
This is beyond naivete and poor judgement. It’s downright dangerous.
Good. Good. Good.
Ifill cites Kissinger as pro-engagement. Palin says no, I had a great meeting with him. He doesn’t support Obama’s position.
These people hate America. Hate what we stand for. Hate our tolerance and respect for women’s right. Can’t sit down with them on the presidential level. Diplomacy is necessary. It’s hard work by serious people with sanctions backing you up before summits take place.
Excellent.
Biden blusters. Mentions McCain/Spain remarks. He wouldn’t even meet with Spain!
Ifill moves on to Israel – one state or two state solution.
Palin: Two state. Israel is our greatest ally. They succeeded with Jordan, Egypt. In a McCainPalin administration, that commitment is there to stand by Israel.
She is on.
Biden: No one’s a bigger supporter of Israel than me! Resorts to his bash-Bush retreat.
Palin: Enough is enough with your ticket looking back and pointing blame. For a ticket touting change, you have too much looking backward. We’re going to forge ahead and make sure our country comes first. Change is coming!
Great smile.
9:57pm Eastern. Palin brings up Afghanistan. The same surge principles in Iraq need to be applied to Afghanistan.
Palin rips Obama for saying troops killed civilians and tore down villages.
SCORE. YES. MORE!
Sarah rocks.
9:59pm Eastern. Biden is ranting about McCain on arms control regime.
Palin corrects Biden on applying surge principles/counterinsurgency principles to Afghanistan. Clearing, holding, rebuilding the civil society. It can work. They’ve not said anything different but that.
Biden is at a loss for words. He can’t defend taking the general out of context.
SCORE!
10:03pm Eastern. Ifill asks about Biden’s record of intervention. He blusters about Darfur and Bosnia.
Palin stays on message: “It’s obvious I’m a Washington outsider. You were for the war and now you were against it. You supported McCain’s strategies. You were for it before you were against it.”
SCORE!
On Darfur, I’m with you. Cites what she did as governor in supporting humanitarian efforts.
Excellent. Keeps hammering her executive experience and record.
EXCELLENT!
Ifill asks if there are lines that should be drawn. Biden: Sure. He then denies that he ever supported
McCain’s strategy.
10:06pm Eastern. I beg to differ. We’ll know the truth. McCain’s been there. He’ll know how to win a war.
Ifill asks about differences between vp and prez. What would we different?
By the way: A reader e-mails that he’s keeping count of the times Biden gets to rebut versus Palin and has it at a 6:1 ratio.
Natch.
Biden concludes he’s agree on everything.
Palin says we’re a ticket of Mavericks and what do you expect? Of course, we’ll disagree. I’ll keep pushing him on ANWR.
Good.
One thing I’ll continue: Reforming Washington. Bringing Wasilla Main Street. Government, get out of my way.
Biden: Can I respond?
Ifill: Please.
(Thinking: “Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!”)
10:11pm Eastern. Palin turning on the charm. “Say it ain’t, Joe!” You did it again. Looking backwards again! Palin praises Biden’s wife for her career in teaching, mentions teachers in her family, shout outs for her brother, dad, and third-graders at a local school in her hometown for watching the debate. They get extra credit.
Ifill brings up Palin’s joke on vice presidency.
Palin: It was lame joke. So was yours (to Biden). But nobody got it. Either of ours. (Laughter.)
Charming, relaxed, self-confident.
Did I say: Sarah rocks!
Oh, and did I note: Biden looks tired despite his tan and what looks like Botox work on his unnaturally smooth forehead. It’s…weird. Kerry-esque.
Palin is talking and Biden keeps smirking.
Biden calls Cheney “the most dangerous vice president in American history.”
Ifill: The conventional wisdom is that Palin’s Achilles’ heel is lack of experience and that Biden’s is lack of discipline. What are your real Achilles’ heels?
Palin: My experience, my connection to the heartland of America, cites her biography. She didn’t hear the rest of the question.
Biden: My Achilles’ heel – “my excessive passion.”
Gag.
Biden pours on his “I’m a real guy, too.” He seems pissed, pardon my language, though she did nothing to attack him personally.
He’s offended that someone’s claimed the Real Person mantle that he thinks he alone possesses.
Palin is on message with McCain as maverick and reformer.
Biden is waking up. He’s really angry now. I’d say he’s scowling, except his mouth can’t really move. Biden trying to paint McCain as Eeeeeevil.
Final question: Can you think of a single issue that you were faced to change because of changed circumstances?
Biden has a ready answer. He’s talking about a judicial pick, cites his opposition to Robert Bork…cites his judiciary committee chairmanship.
Palin: There are times as mayor and governor that I wanted to zero-base budget or cut taxes more, but on major principles, no, nothing I’ve ever had to compromise on.
Ifill has another question after her final question: How will you change the tone in Washington?
Biden blathers about working together, a Jesse Helms anecdote, never questioning others’ motives. Blah blah. “That’s the fundamental change Barack Obama and I will bring. Not questioning others’ motives.”
Bull crap!
Joe Biden, meet Stanley Kurtz.
Palin stays on message: Support a ticket that creates jobs, reins in government spending, energy independence.
Conclusion.
Palin’s up. She likes these forums. No filtering by the mainstream media (ZING!). John McCain and I will fight for America. I know what the hurts are, I know the challenges, I know the blessings. I’ve always been proud to be an American. (Unlike, ahem, Mrs. “America is Downright Mean.”) There is only one man in this race who has really fought for you. And that man is John McCain.”
Excellent.
Biden’s up. Can he not bash Bush in the next 90 seconds.
He’s tiiiiiiired. Gravel-voiced. Deflated.
But his forehead is really smooth.
Biden ends with a “God bless America” and a “God bless the troops” — the kind of thing the Christian-bashers would flog Sarah over.
Bottom line:
Sarah rocks. Biden’s tired.
***
My quick post-debate analysis is here: Sarah rocks!
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I’m middle class and I’m not struggling. I plan to succeed as a small business owner and I don’t WANY ANY MORE STINKIN’ TAXES that will slow my business.
Oh, there’s that fairness word again. Joe, please get over that word. It doesn’t work.
A Bah, a bah . . . Exxon-Mobile!
My neighborhood?? That compound in Delaware??!!
take from the rich = fairness. Sure Joe, whatever you say
We don’t call it redistribution we call that fairness, we know Orwell warned us SMILE.
By the way, he looks older than McCain tonight.
EXXON Mobile? Oh he should have left the redistribution line alone.
SHE won that round.
Loved when she talked over gwen with her “alright”
Redistribution is fair Joe? C’mon… hey Obummer voted for the corporate tax breaks too. What’s your point?
ONe hand giveth the other you taketh…LIberal mantra
IT’S REDISTRIBUTION, JOE!!!
You go girl!!!!!!!!!! Yeahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
What???? McCain is not raising taxes to give the credit !!!!
Biden – we don’t call it redistribution; we call it fairness.
Yeah – that’s what you call it.
What about the uninsured now!
He’s talking out his ass about healthcare..
The ultimate Bridge to nowhere he really thought that was clever.
did I hear the moderator all the governor ‘dear’? when she cut her off?
They aren’t supposed to laugh.
That was not right.
Who is in that audience.
Biden: “We don’t call it income redistribution, where I come from.”
I bet you don’t, “Joe.” Even those of you in Liberaland know better than to call it what it is.
She’s going to jump on the “redistribution” rebuttal ole plugs just gave.
He gave the bridge to nowhere line too soon, I think.
He got the laugh, but not the zing.
looks like the makeup over his forehead veins is not going to hold up…keep him on the defense.
badly delivered “bridge to nowhere’ line, very nice
Yeah, he looks like he recently had his eyes “pulled”.
I’m a lot less anxious than I was. Sarah’s doing well thus far.
We are not going to support Tax Cuts, we will tax you because well as I said, that is what we call fairness.
She’s sending rounds downrange…Biden sounds defensive now…
Here we go again…taxes. Joe, do you realize $250K in CA doesn’t make you “rich”? Remember we also pay an additional 10% to the state, high sales taxes, etc.? Our overall rate exceeds 50% most of the time? Don’t you just get it?
No tax cut for Exxon, the company that lets us get to work, but, the Senate bailout bill gives tax cuts to Hollywood.
Biden is so full of crap. And, yes, he does look tired, Michelle.
Joe is the ultimate tired, boring gasbag.
Biden’s spiel is all class warfare.
What’s his beef with Exxon Mobil. Does his SUV run on corn oil?
ha… Say “Characterized” 1 more time, Joe.
He’s getting flustered.
All that stuff Biden “can’t slow up on” – $$$$$$$$$$$ the spending mounts up. Who you gonna get it from, Joe??
Ifill should not be doing this
Well, we wouldn’t be taking money offshore if our taxes weren’t so oppressive.
blah!
Early cocktails?
Why is Ifill not cutting off Biden? Even Biden said his light is blinking, and still she is not cutting him off.. UInbiased my a$$.
He ACTUALLY said paying taxes (money taken from you at GUN POINT) is PATRIOTIC in this f’n debate.
What a loser!
unpatriotic unpatriotic uh not taxing Americans is unpatriotic.
When it is a split-screen, they are framed closer on Sarah, making her head look big. It’s a camera trick.
Also, did I mention I despise that moderator?
“I took on those oil companies.” Ouch!
I’m gonna drink a shot for each time Joe mentions Exxon Mobil. I’ll be so toasted by the end of the night!
The barricuda is in the house!
This energy response is spot on.
good answer
Sarah’s pimped out Obama on his Energy Policy…DAMN!
was that applause? NIce Sara, biden looks like he is going to jump out of his skin.
The bridge to nowhere isn’t a bridge to nowhere if you have to take a boat to get to the airport.
She is talking to US, not the moderator! Excellent!
I am soooo proud of her right now. Call him on his crap, Governor.
I’m listening to this the way an independent voter would. Plugs has been very well coached on specific data points, even if they are lies. His propaganda blow are landing and she’s not getting a glove on him. This is awful.
Joe, will you get off your tax hike issue?
vsatt,
She’s back with a vengence!
She’s slamming Joe.
Sarah’s hitting her stride.
She is leading this thing. He’s following.
AWESOME.
Go ahead and mention that windfall profits tax. Circle that drain Joe!
This guy is going on and on about preserving national healthcare. There won’t be money for that, dude.
Was that the energy bill he voted on before they all went on Vacation and he went body surfing well he tried to go body surfing in Hawaii that Energy Bill Obama got done?
Oh la la 1,000 bucks, and you only want 850 Billion in return.
She may be slamming Joe, but shall we all take bets now as to how the media will see this? I say they’ll all call it for Biden.
Windfall profits tax…
Heaven forbid that our companies exceed their profit expectations.
We should apparently punish great performance with a tax, eh, Joe?
The cuda’s bite is getin’ blood to flow!
He is on the ropes. He keeps going back to Exxon-Mobile.
I can’t believe this guy thinks he can win on taxes.
Well Joe, it may be called ‘fair’ in your neighborhood, it’s called stealing in my neighborhood.
That answer about only being at it for five weeks was very weak. That’s a soundbyte in the making.
Probably got the questions ahead of time. What? Wouldn’t that be unethical? Like writing a book one BO and then “moderating” this debate?
More important what the American voter thinks. I believe the wise ones will make up their own minds rather than listen to the talking heads.
This website is bogging down badly for me…anyone else?
Sarah said she would have voted for the bill. C’mon Sarah.
I thought she started a little slow. Looked a little nervous. She can’t afford to DO that in this election where the entire future of the nation is depensing. We CAN’T allow the Marxists to win!
She’s getting a little better…
I’m sure the moderator will do her best to get her back off track….
Yes, Michelle, he looks VERY tired. Also, his eyes look a bit strange, not sure why.
I don’t think it helps to keep saying “greedy wall street”. The problems came from washington – not wall street.
Biden isn’t tired. He is over botoxed.
Please bring up ACORN after this response……pretty please!!
Paraphrasing? Try lying
Say the “S”ocialism word, Sara!
James Greenidge
Queens NY
Are Obama supporters really such because they hate George Bush THAT much??
His eye lift is distracting. Yes, plugs Barack Obama is his name. Don’t say Osama Obama.
Tazed- Yes, lots of hangups
Exxon needs to launch a series of ads to address Biden’s claims.
It’s a mystery why Biden wants to attack an American company. A small one when compared to other global energy companies.
Yep
Adjust the principal on your loan… damn Joe it’s called making payments.
Oops, she accidentally switched “Wall Street” with “Main Street”.
John McCain was NOT suprized about this sub prime mess he has been warning about it for years he tried to pass a BILL to regulate Fannie and Freddie and the Dems BLOCKED Why influence Peddling maybe?
Me too, Tazed. Me too.
My favorite line by Biden thus far:
“Quote…and I’m paraphrasing here…”
better than plagiarizing I guess!
Yeah Sarah! Drill baby!
Biden is falling back about the subprime crisis…now talking about renegotiation of mortgages in bankruptcy courts… Sara need to hit him on the this…stop going back to energy…
Sure, why not, Joe. Judges already illegally legislate from the bench… let’s let them illegally screw with with private business, too. What a maroon.
Got the white screen of death twice.
We should rewrite individual loans to reduce the principal and intrest rate? That should help the banks – whatkind of write down will that bring?
Whoa … where is she going?
She needs to at least answer some of the questions.
reduce emmission. Close Biden’s mouth
oh joy, climate change BS…
She’s painting herself into a corner asking for an argument on climate change. Not a winning issue, nor a legitimate topic for this debate.
don’t believe in climate change crap…but, clean energy and energy independence is good.
Palin absolutely KILLS it on energy. DB moderator comes back with: “I’m happy to discuss energy, what about global warming?” Talk about diverting from a TREMENDOUS issue to a COMPLETE NON-ISSUE (Global Warming).