Palin e-mal hacker suspect indicted; at least one other person illegally accessed account

By Michelle Malkin  •  October 8, 2008 10:23 AM

I told you the other day that the DOJ probe was “ongoing.” And now we have an indictment. Yes, it’s Tennessee Democrat lawmaker Mike Kernell’s son, David Kernell. No more wild and carefree campus parties for you, son.

A University of Tennessee student who is the son of a Memphis legislator has been indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of hacking Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin’s personal e-mail.

David C. Kernell, 20, was indicted by a federal grand jury in Knoxville for intentionally accessing without authorization the e-mail account of Palin, the governor of Alaska and Sen. John McCain’s running mate, according to U.S. Attorney James R. Dedrick.

Dedrick said Kernell, the son of state Rep. Mike Kernell, D-Memphis, turned himself in to federal authorities today for arrest.

He is to be arraigned before U.S. Magistrate Judge C. Clifford Shirley.

The single-count indictment, returned Tuesday and unsealed today, alleges that on approximately Sept. 16, 2008, Kernell, obtained unauthorized access to Palin’s personal e-mail account by allegedly resetting the account password.

According to the indictment, after answering a series of security questions that allowed him to reset the password and gain access to the e-mail account, Kernell allegedly read the contents of the account and made screenshots of the e-mail directory, e-mail content and other personal information.

According to the indictment, Kernell posted screenshots of the e-mail and other personal information to a public Web site. Kernell also allegedly posted the new e-mail account password, thus providing access to the account by others.

Exactly as it was described in my post here.

Kernell faces five years in prison.

I hope he’ll serve every day of it.

***

The Smoking Gun
has the indictment. It discloses that “At least one other individual successfully used the reset password to access Governor Palin’s e-mail account.” I wonder if that person has been identified?

***
Previous:

An update on the Palin e-mail hacker case

On the Palin e-mail hacker trail

AP reporter e-mails: Yeah, it’s all Palin’s fault

Palin e-mail hack update: AP won’t help feds, tech operator will

The story behind the Palin e-mail hacking

Sarah Palin’s private e-mail hacked, family photos raided; cesspool blog gloats; feds investigate

Posted in: Sarah Palin

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  1. Newsflash: Palin E-mail Hacker Indicted | Jeffrey A. Setaro
  2. The Other McCain: DAVID KERNELL INDICTED
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  4. Palin E-mail Hacker Indicted « Trust, But Verify
  5. Palin E-Mail Hacker Indicted | The Daily Conservative
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  10. The College Politico » Blog Archive » Palin hacker, Rubico, was on NewsBusters while taking pictures of her E-Mail
  11. David Kernell, Son Of Tennessee Democratic State Representative Mike Kernell, Indicted In Palin E-mail Hacking Case | Right Voices
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Comments


  1. #491475
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:31 pm, Old Scout said:

    I expect that the legal fees to keep David Kernell out of jail will run at least $10,000 – after all, it’s a federal case.

    So there’s a de facto civil penalty, if nothing else.

  2. #491478
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:34 pm, Laree said:

    Wasn’t there a person who went in and reset the password again and then warned the Governor about the activity? I seem to remember this from the original story. Some one got ?scared? or realized the seriousness?

  3. #491479
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:34 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    I guess, as a taxpayer, you don’t care about public records

    So you’re ok if someone hacks in to Hawaii’s record system to see Obama’s birth certificate? Hillary’s passport? Kerry’s military record? (I know, he’s going to release that himself).

  4. #491489
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:37 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    I expect that the legal fees to keep David Kernell out of jail will run at least $10,000 – after all, it’s a federal case.

    At $500 a billable hour, that’s barely lunch and a phone call for an attorney. Ten times that maybe (or more).

  5. #491494
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:40 pm, TheOtherSide said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:03 pm, Goldwater Knight said:
    Could you please site some references to liberals condoning the illegal act of the hacker.
    You’re such a clown. LOL!

    And our bet is looking nicer with every new poll that comes out!

  6. #491495
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:40 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    What if Barack’s personal email account was hacked into? And all of his personal family photos, email addresses of other people in his circle, private cell phone numbers of his daughters, etc., were all exposed and gloated over?

    I have a copy of one of Obama’s emails. It says: “Don’t tell. Remember what happened to the cat. Bill A.”

  7. #491497
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:42 pm, TheOtherSide said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:14 pm, pianoman said:
    So you would want items such as, say, troop movements or anti-terrorist tactics sent over Yahoo or Hotmail or Gmail?

    No…that’s exactly my point…I think you need a little better reading comprehension.

  8. #491499
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:42 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    And our bet is looking nicer with every new poll that comes out!

    How would winning the election make a crime OK?

  9. #491502
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:44 pm, PKAmmoTroop said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 11:45 am, TheOtherSide said:

    Now if we can just make Sarah Palin accountable for doing government business via Yahoo mail. Seriously, could this have happened if she were using the far more secure e-mail system supplied to her by the state?

    Such righteous indignation! You must be a really caring individual! Maybe you should go through her snail mail envelope by envelope to insure she’s not breaking any other policies (note: policy, not law)

    Tell you what, tell me where you’ll be inspecting her mail for evidence on any other minor, insignifigant, piddly, triviality that makes you feel so superior to a governor. I’ll send folks to help. My son’s a Postal Service inspector, he’d be glad to help you to the extent of the law.

    Otherwise all I want to hear from you is how Obama’s laundering state and federal money through his family back into his campaign coffers is a good thing.

  10. #491507
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:47 pm, Salt said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 1:05 pm, Kevin from Ohio in Virginia said:

    Fair enough. I agree on that.

  11. #491509
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:48 pm, pianoman said:

    The whole quote again:

    I doubt there was anything illegal about this, however as I stated above, it sets a very dangerous precedent. Don’t you want to know what your government is doing? By using personal email government can circumvent public record.

    So..it sets a dangerous precedent by what?…a)using personal email for government use, or b)government sneaking around behind our backs “circumventing” public record by using a more secure system?

    I can read and comprehend…it was an easy question. :)

  12. #491512
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:52 pm, BlameAmericaLast said:

    Seriously, could this have happened if she were using the far more secure e-mail system supplied to her by the state?

    Yes, I work in the IT industry, and it’s not that difficult. Just because it’s a government account, doesn’t make it bulletproof from hackers.

  13. #491515
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:53 pm, Salt said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 1:35 pm, TheOtherSide said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 1:18 pm, Brian72 said:

    All of the liberals were hoping for a personal scandal

    And conservatives would never stop to that level?

    Looking for comparative equivalencies aside, Obama did become the Illinois senator after Jack Ryan’s personal life was exposed from having his divorce records opened (something both he and his ex-wife did not want to happen).

    The Tu Quoque argument frays a bit when you put into perspective that this type of stuff seems to follow an Obama campaign. That’s not an implication of Sen. Obama himself, per se, but does speak a bit to the likely motive of this hacker.

    I agree with Brian72 in that the “government use” defense sounds like sour grapes for not finding something juicy in her email.

  14. #491519
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:58 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    You’re such a clown. LOL!

    Sophistry is not education. If you want to show him the truth, then show it to him. If it’s not true, then don’t claim that it is.

    I doubt there was anything illegal about this, however as I stated above, it sets a very dangerous precedent. Don’t you want to know what your government is doing? By using personal email government can circumvent public record.

    There are legitimate competing priorities here. As a computer consultant, I have to pay attention to issues of how computers are used at my clients, not to mention my own personal use.

    It’s a generally accepted standard that business email accounts and equipment are not to be used for personal email. While this isn’t always true, it’s almost always better to avoid mixing business and personal email, especially in larger companies. I would think this is especially true in government.

    Put another way, I could see legitimate complaints raised if Sarah Palin was using her government email for personal email. That means having both a government and a personal email account is far better than converting government property for personal use.

    The problem is that it’s usually impossible to keep them completely separate, especially when your profession basically is your life, such as with a politician. For example, your schedule would have to include both business/official and personal events to be able to avoid conflicts.

    In other words, I would be surprised if there was not some cross messaging between personal and private emails. The time to actually be concerned is if there is evidence of a concerted and deliberate effort to hide official government business by using a personal/non-governmental email account.

    TOS, do you have any actual evidence that Governor Palin is deliberately trying to hide official activities in her personal email? If not, then claiming that she’s actively doing something wrong merely because you assert that she might be doing so is simply invalid.

  15. #491521
    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:59 pm, Salt said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 2:48 pm, pianoman said:

    The whole quote again:

    I doubt there was anything illegal about this, however as I stated above, it sets a very dangerous precedent. Don’t you want to know what your government is doing? By using personal email government can circumvent public record.

    So..it sets a dangerous precedent by what?…a)using personal email for government use, or b)government sneaking around behind our backs “circumventing” public record by using a more secure system?

    I can read and comprehend…it was an easy question. :)

    Where does it end? I suppose she also had business lunches outside of the government building. Were those a bad precedent?

    How about her cell phone? Must she only use one supplied by the state?

    I hope she brings a stenographer to the elevator with her in case someone wants to strike up a conversation.

    Bottom line… If there had been anything sensitive or inappropriate for using that email account, I’m fairly certain the MSM would be slamming that headline around for a couple of weeks.

  16. #491527
    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:01 pm, drivingjack said:

    Where is the “outrage” from the Obama camp?

  17. #491532
    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:03 pm, Salt said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:01 pm, drivingjack said:

    Where is the “outrage” from the Obama camp?

    Shhh… Don’t bother them. They’re too busy burying his association with Bill Ayers. Clearly, the facts around when Gov. Palin sent those family photos and to whom she sent them are much more important.

  18. #491535
    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:03 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    And our bet is looking nicer with every new poll that comes out!

    I hope Obama gets elected because I want to see some mean vicious conservatives come into action in this country. Paul Revere will ride again!

  19. #491536
    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:04 pm, BlameAmericaLast said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:01 pm, drivingjack said:

    Where is the “outrage” from the Obama camp?

    Same question I asked the DAY this situation emerged.

    Crickets…chirping.

  20. #491538
    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:05 pm, Brian72 said:

    From another thread here at Michelle’s:

    Today, John M. Murtagh made the following statement on Barack Obama’s relationship with William Ayers:

    When I was 9 years-old the Weather Underground, the terrorist group founded by Barack Obama’s friend William Ayers, firebombed my house. Barack Obama has dismissed concerns about his relationship with Ayers by noting that he was only a child when Ayers was planting bombs at the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol. But Ayers has never apologized for his crimes, he has reveled in them, expressing regret only for the fact that he didn’t do more.

    While Barack Obama once downplayed his relationship with Ayers, today his campaign took that deceit one step further. Barack Obama now denies he was even aware of his friend’s violent past when, in 1995, Ayers hosted a party launching Obama’s political career. Given Ayers’ celebrity status among the left, it’s difficult to believe. The question remains: what did Obama know, and when did he know it? When did Obama learn the truth about his friend? Barack Obama helped Ayers promote his book in 1997, served on charitable boards with him through 2002, and regularly exchanged emails and phone calls with him through 2005. At what point did Barack Obama discover that his friend was an unrepentant terrorist? And if he is so repulsed by the acts of terror committed by William Ayers, why did the relationship continue? Any honest accounting by Barack Obama will necessarily cast further doubt on his judgment and his fitness to serve as commander in chief.

    “Barack Obama may have been a child when William Ayers was plotting attacks against U.S. targets — but I was one of those targets. Barack Obama’s friend tried to kill my family.

    You know something, Those e-mails between Obama and Ayers might contain some interesting info that would contradict what he’s saying about this relationship. Not to mention that these two paired up to spend $100 million to turn public elementary schools into one big “American oppression and racism empire studies” class. At the expense of, among other things, Algebra for kids.

    This could constitute “official business” on a personal e-mail account, and dammit, I have a right to this information. Barack Obama forfeited his right to privacy on anything when he decided to take my country down the road of socialist ruin.

    That’s right, no rights for candidates. You want to play that game where it suits you, then we can play that game too.

    Gee, I wonder if Michelle Obama has said something damaging to her husband’s candidacy in these so called “private” e-mails. Aren’t you interested in what the potential First Family might be saying to one another in unguarded moments? Those moments are now public domain, according to “The Other Side”. (Other Side of what?)

    What’s good for the goose…..as they say.

  21. #491542
    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:08 pm, tamarah180 said:

    And our bet is looking nicer with every new poll that comes out!

    Yeah, it’s cheaper to PAY for votes than it is to actually work for them. (See MM’s posts on ACORN and Obama for further details.)

    And most of the WORKING voters are WORKING when the polls are taken. Let’s see who actually shows up at the voting centers on Nov 4th….remember how Kerry was 10% ahead of, oh, who was that guy he was running against again?

    Oh yeah, that’s right, the Other Guy won….

  22. #491545
    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:10 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    EWTHeckman:

    Otherside said:

    Now if we can just make Sarah Palin accountable for doing government business via Yahoo mail.

    A clown says this. That’s the truth and this isn’t philosophy 101. If you want an education I suggest you join the Army.

  23. #491568
    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:25 pm, BlameAmericaLast said:

    And our bet is looking nicer with every new poll that comes out!

    Ugh. Don’t you people understand that the polls have been meaningless in the past few elections?

    If you want to believe the polls, Kerry would be President right now.

    And I especially don’t believe in any of them for this election. God knows what “data” they’re using, or if they’re even calling anyone to begin with.

  24. #491570
    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:27 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    so you’re saying e-mal is a malapropism?

    I can’t even find e-mal in the urban dictionary.

  25. #491583
    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:35 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    GK,

    I have an education. My point is simply that our basis for our belief is either Truth or personal opinion. By using the same sophistry and logical fallacies as the left, we reduce our positions to nothing more than mere personal opinion with no more validity than their fevered imaginings.

    The only positions we should accept as valid must be based on evidence, logic, reason and education. I refuse to accept anything else from the left and the right, and you should too. If we’re better than them, then doggone it, we need to be better than them.

  26. #491616
    On October 8th, 2008 at 3:50 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    EWTHeckman

    I leave my posts very brief for a reason. In the grand scheme of things; weighing the issue of questioning Palin’s judgement for using the yahoo vs. Obama’s judgement in forging a stark alliance with Ayers leaves me wanting to lambaste! And yes, I do have an anger problem. :E

  27. #491660
    On October 8th, 2008 at 4:09 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    GK,

    Even if you do get them to change their mind using sophistry without reasoning, how do you expect them to ’stick’ if they don’t actually know the facts and solid logic?

  28. #491671
    On October 8th, 2008 at 4:13 pm, TheOtherSide said:

    Here’s a clown comment for you:

    On September 8th, 2008 at 6:31 pm, Goldwater Knight said:
    Obama will not recover. It’s over. 3 More weeks of pounding by McCain and it’s done.

  29. #491672
    On October 8th, 2008 at 4:14 pm, T-Bone said:

    At any cost, by any means neccesary. We must win this country back from the evil republicans that are destroying our image in the world, killing innocent civilians worldwide, wrecking our economy, destroying our whole planet, and committing racism on a scale never before seen in this world.

    George Soros, Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Al Gore, and Barbra Streisand will save us from the republican scum who will force us to go to church every Sunday.

    Once they are in power, we will all be rewarded. We will be able to take undeserved money from rich people that live to high on the hog for my liking and transfer it to poor working families who never finished high school, took risk, or made an effort to do the kinds of things that these rich people did, other than play the lottery bet the ponies, and drink 40’s. We will tell the world that we are a good and kind nation by releasing all the people that will continue to kill our Republican military around the world.

    We will transfer all our additional wealth to these nations so they can be on the same level as us. We will pay reparations to all the zillions of people we have harmed through no fault of their own. We will also free all prisoners freedom fighters that helped us in our just cause to end republican injustice in the world and replace them in their cells with Bush, Cheney, and all Exxon/Mobil and Haliburton employees that we can find. This includes our hero David Kernell who did what he had to do to further the cause.

    All the evil cororations will be permanently put out of business so George Soros can now compete fairly in those markets. This may result in some short term pain for Americans as we take your wealth & jobs and send them to other countries but it is the right thing to do. Join us and we will make sure you are protected and given a job, a house, and a mule to ride to work. We should be able to take enough from the rich people to spread around, however meager and thin that may be. Rejoice! It’s a new world order. The world will like us again. Muslims will finally make peace with us. The few requirements they will have such as burkas & beheadings, and jiza tax will pale in comparision to the suffering we are experiencing under BDS GW Bush. At any cost, by any means neccesary. Get in their face!

    /sarc off

  30. #491675
    On October 8th, 2008 at 4:15 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    On September 8th, 2008 at 6:31 pm, Goldwater Knight said:
    Obama will not recover. It’s over. 3 More weeks of pounding by McCain and it’s done.

    Aw, you digging in the sandbox again? lol.

  31. #491683
    On October 8th, 2008 at 4:20 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    GK,

    Even if you do get them to change their mind using sophistry without reasoning, how do you expect them to ’stick’ if they don’t actually know the facts and solid logic?

    It has nothing to do with logic it has more to do with observing the brain damage that Otherside suffers from.

    Otherside laugh it up now furball I’ll get the last laugh. In fact I’m already laughing that Barney Frank and yourself share soap in the shower.

  32. #491780
    On October 8th, 2008 at 5:32 pm, MDH3 said:

    By using personal email government can circumvent public record.

    Sorry, but this is flat out untrue. I shall repeat. UNTRUE.

    Any e-mail sent by a public official or government employee, any document produced by a public official or government employee (save personnel records) produced on any system – home computer, office computer, whatever, is subject to FOIA. Full stop.

  33. #491784
    On October 8th, 2008 at 5:35 pm, Peet said:

    Hey webmaster!

    Hows about configuring this half-baked web page so clicking on the article link opens the FIRST comment page, not the LAST one?

    Geeze, talk about…

  34. #491817
    On October 8th, 2008 at 6:07 pm, pianoman said:

    Any e-mail sent by a public official or government employee, any document produced by a public official or government employee (save personnel records) produced on any system – home computer, office computer, whatever, is subject to FOIA. Full stop.

    The old IT truism, “if you don’t want it read, don’t put it in an email” is a good one.

  35. #491819
    On October 8th, 2008 at 6:11 pm, TheOtherSide said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 5:32 pm, MDH3 said:

    Sorry, but this is flat out untrue. I shall repeat. UNTRUE.

    Any e-mail sent by a public official or government employee, any document produced by a public official or government employee (save personnel records) produced on any system – home computer, office computer, whatever, is subject to FOIA. Full stop.

    Although your statement regarding FOIA is true, that does not invalidate my statement. Question: What happens to an e-mail that you delete from you Yahoo account? What happens to an e-mail you delete from your government account? Hint: One is recoverable, one is not.

  36. #491822
    On October 8th, 2008 at 6:13 pm, zorro said:

    Roast him. Maximum sentence.

  37. #491833
    On October 8th, 2008 at 6:29 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    Although your statement regarding FOIA is true, that does not invalidate my statement. Question: What happens to an e-mail that you delete from you Yahoo account? What happens to an e-mail you delete from your government account? Hint: One is recoverable, one is not.

    Clown. Let me guess you suspect Palin was emailing secrets to Russia. Drink the kool aid slap happy…

  38. #491850
    On October 8th, 2008 at 6:54 pm, chapoutier said:

    Maybe she was Goldwater? Why are you so quick to dismiss her illegal (Yes. Illegal, not just against policy) activity?

    And don’t you think this is just an teensey bit suspicious?

    Earlier this year, a close aide to Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin investigated whether emails from private accounts belonging to state officials could be obtained by prosecutors or state investigators. She forwarded her findings to Palin and Palin’s husband Todd.

    Hmmm…what possible reason could she have for wanting to know if private emails were subject to investigative/criminal subpoenas?

    I am real sorry that this information was obtained by someone committing an illegal act and no doubt that illegality should be punished. But does the fact that it is fruit of the poisonous tree mean we should ignore it? I’ll bet you are not the type that would support the suppression of damning evidence obtained with a faulty warrant. Am I right?

  39. #491851
    On October 8th, 2008 at 6:54 pm, TheOtherSide said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 6:29 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    Clown. Let me guess you suspect Palin was emailing secrets to Russia. Drink the kool aid slap happy…

    Why would she when she could just tell him directly, since they are neighbors and all.

  40. #491852
    On October 8th, 2008 at 6:55 pm, supersean said:

    I agree that the kid should be punished… I would advocate 30 days in jail and paying fines and restitution to Palin.

    Michelle: Why would you wish that he gets a 5 year prison sentence for a non violent offense that did not involve the theft of identity, financial assets or physical property?

  41. #491853
    On October 8th, 2008 at 6:57 pm, chapoutier said:

    Why would she when she could just tell him directly, since they are neighbors and all.

    Just a big ole shout out across that narrow maritime border, you betcha.

  42. #491858
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:08 pm, chapoutier said:

    Hmmm…what possible reason could she have for wanting to know if private emails emails from a private account were subject to investigative/criminal subpoenas?

  43. #491859
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:10 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    Maybe she was Goldwater? Why are you so quick to dismiss her illegal (Yes. Illegal, not just against policy) activity?

    I’d be a little more suspicious of Obama. Rezko, Ayers, Acorn. Let’s just ignore the 800 lb. monkey in the room.

  44. #491860
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:14 pm, chapoutier said:

    I’d be a little more suspicious of Obama. Rezko, Ayers, Acorn. Let’s just ignore the 800 lb. monkey in the room.

    Its not being ignored. You can find TONS of threads here, I’ve even commented about it on one or two of them. I’m just trying to stay on topic for once. I know I have been criticized for it, but it seems like you are just pulling an lgm here.

  45. #491862
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:15 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    Besides the punk kid Kernal went through 80 some emails and was upset he could only find emails about prayers for strength and children’s pictures.

    Quit knockin’ the slushy machine punk.

  46. #491869
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:19 pm, chapoutier said:

    I would direct your attention to Post 77, which has oodles of examples of relevant emails, not just happy pictures and recipe swapping, and ask you again if you condone Palin’s illegal behavior and find it the least bit suspicious that she was researching whether private emails were subject to subpoena.

  47. #491886
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:29 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    REPORTER SHOCK CLAIM: OBAMA AIRPLANE SMELLS BAD.

    By moral equivalence this is a more prescient headline in reality.

  48. #491891
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:31 pm, chapoutier said:

    By your silence/refusal to answer, I will assume you condone Palin’s illegal activity.

  49. #491897
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:38 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    chapoutier said:

    By your silence/refusal to answer, I will assume you condone Palin’s illegal activity.

    Assume what you want this isn’t an episode of Perry Mason.

  50. #491904
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:43 pm, chapoutier said:

    Assume what you want this isn’t an episode of Perry Mason.

    Ohhh…I can assume ANYTHING I want?

    Is it really so difficult a question? Do you condone Palin’s illegal behavior? Saying yes doesn’t mean you become a dirty lib or have to vote for Obama or anything. It just means you are not totally vapid.

  51. #491906
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:44 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    Hmmm…what possible reason could she have for wanting to know if private emails were subject to investigative/criminal subpoenas?

    Well gee, let me think… ::very little thinking necessary:: … Because maybe there were people under her authority that she might need to check up on? That would be something she needed to know as part of doing her job.

    If there was actually some evidence that she was trying to bypass FOIA laws or something like that, then there would be reason to be suspicious. However, as far as I know, there is no such evidence, only your own partisanship. (Whatever happened to Obama’s call for bipartisanship anyway?)

    On the other hand, we do know that there were issues relating to subordinates (the police chief, the ex-brother-in-law policeman, the librarian) where there was a good chance that it would be important to know how the law applied.

    Note that I’m not saying that she didn’t do something illegal, just that there is no applicable evidence that checking up on the laws is related to anything illegal, AND there is a simpler reasonable explanation for her interest in this area. Occam’s Razor applies here, and by that rule, there is nothing suspicious.

    Although your statement regarding FOIA is true, that does not invalidate my statement. Question: What happens to an e-mail that you delete from you Yahoo account? What happens to an e-mail you delete from your government account? Hint: One is recoverable, one is not.

    So you’ve described a mechanism which makes personal email susceptible to bypassing FOIA laws. But you have not shown any evidence that Governor Palin was actively trying to do so. Nor have you argued that she should also be running her personal email through government systems.

    Once again, where’s your evidence?

    Theoretically, I could also claim that Senator Obama is deliberately hiding things in his personal email. But I’m not making such a claim, even though it is possible that he’s doing so. There is one reason why I’m not making such a claim: there is no evidence that he is doing so.

    It all comes down to the evidence, and you don’t have any.

  52. #491920
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:52 pm, chapoutier said:

    Well gee, let me think… ::very little thinking necessary:: … Because maybe there were people under her authority that she might need to check up on? That would be something she needed to know as part of doing her job.

    I disagree that this is the simplest answer, but it is plausible. However, ironically, the aide emailed the answer to Todd and Sarah’s private email accounts. Why the secrecy if she was just trying to figure out what her executive pwoers were in a legitimate investigation. That coupled with the fact there is proof that she carried on government business over private accounts means any benefit of the doubt she may have been entitled to.

    I mean really. If this is a Dem doing this you all would not be so generous in your assumptions.

  53. #491927
    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:55 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    chap,

    I’d be a little more suspicious of Obama. Rezko, Ayers, Acorn. Let’s just ignore the 800 lb. monkey in the room.

    Its not being ignored.

    It has been ignored or otherwise excused and minimized by you and others who share your ideology even when it was on topic. THAT is the point.

    I would direct your attention to Post 77, which has oodles of examples of relevant emails,

    I call falsified data. They didn’t sound like what I remembered from when this story first broke, so I tracked down the screen shots. I must be blind or something, but I don’t see those subjects anywhere in those screen shots.

    Ohhh…I can assume ANYTHING I want?

    You already do. Any plans on changing that?

  54. #491932
    On October 8th, 2008 at 8:00 pm, TheOtherSide said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:44 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    Once again, where’s your evidence?

    Where did I ever claim to have evidence that she is hiding something in her personal e-mail? My only point that it is an extremely poor practice for our elected officials to use personal e-mail to do public duties. Do you have a problem with that statement?

  55. #491937
    On October 8th, 2008 at 8:04 pm, chapoutier said:

    EWTH,

    The hackers only took a few screenshots, but cut and pasted the entire inbox list, which is where TOS got the emails. You can see it here.

    And as for Obama and Ayers, I said what i thought about that on another thread yesterday, so whatever. And if what I do is the only reason you or Goldwater or anyone won’t admit and condemn Palin’s illegal activity, well, that is weak.

  56. #491938
    On October 8th, 2008 at 8:05 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    My only point that it is an extremely poor practice for our elected officials to use personal e-mail to do public duties. Do you have a problem with that statement?

    I agree with the first sentence as a general principle. However, your claim is that Governor Palin is, or might be, doing this. Where is your evidence for suspicions about her?

  57. #491940
    On October 8th, 2008 at 8:06 pm, TheOtherSide said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 7:55 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    I call falsified data

    Here … although I’m sure you will claim something else fraudulent.

  58. #491947
    On October 8th, 2008 at 8:10 pm, TheOtherSide said:

    On October 8th, 2008 at 8:05 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    However, your claim is that Governor Palin is, or might be, doing this.

    Again…where did I make that claim??? Please re-read my posts and tell me!!!

  59. #491954
    On October 8th, 2008 at 8:13 pm, chapoutier said:

    It is useless, TOS. They will come up with any barely plausible justification and/or conjure whatever wild conspiracy theory and/or ignore clear physical evidence to assuage whatever tickle of doubt they may have that Palin may have done just one tiny thing wrong.

    God. Its not like this is the worst thing in the world for Palin, either. Even if she DID use private emails to conduct government business and even if EVERY word Monegan said regarding his firing was true, in the grand scheme of things, its not earth-shattering corruption. Abuse of power, sure. But not really awful. No more or less than any other politician of any significant position (including Obama) has done.

    The sheer inability to admit this for Palin is what is so curious.

  60. #491985
    On October 8th, 2008 at 8:53 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    The hackers only took a few screenshots, but cut and pasted the entire inbox list,

    That’s lousy evidence. First of all, simple text can be faked so easily that I don’t even trust such evidence even when it agrees with other evidence supporting a position I agree with. A screen shot would have been FAR stronger.

    Secondly, that list gives absolutely no point of reference for the status of those emails. Where they actually government or personal emails? Did they start as official correspondence, then spin off topic into non-governmental topics which where appropriately shifted to personal email? Where they CC’d or Forwarded from her government account for convenience? Were they sent to the wrong address accidentally? Were they even non-governmental business with official sounding topics like spammers try to use? Where they related to her status as a politician who’s always looking ahead to the next campaign? (Such emails would relate to government, yet would not actually be official government business and would be most appropriate as personal, not government emails.) And even if they were official government business, was it anything more than innocuous unimportant stuff that was incorrectly handled through personal email? Or was she actually trying to hide something through personal email, even under dull generally meaningless subjects?

    We don’t know!

    The only thing that’s clear from that list is it tells us absolutely nothing which answers these questions! Even just getting the full headers for the emails would tell us something, but we don’t even have that. Surely a Democrat (that’s this kid’s ideological affiliation) who was looking to embarrass Governor Palin would have posted that something embarrassing if there was something to be found. The fact that he didn’t implies that he didn’t find anything he could use. Can you imagine a robber breaking in to a house looking for money, then ignoring the $100 lying on the dining room table? That’s apparently what you want us to believe about what this kid did.

    As evidence goes, this is such weak tea that it’s practically indistinguishable from water.

    If this is a Dem doing this you all would not be so generous in your assumptions.

    That depends on the evidence. I like think somewhat like an honest policeman, in that I may suspect they’re guilty based on their personal history. However, without reliable evidence, I’m not going to try to do anything about it.

    For example, I’ve already told friends to forget the idea that Obama might be Muslim. He could be, or not. The only evidence there is is so weak (about on par with a text list of an inbox) that it is essentially meaningless. It is illegitimate to draw a conclusion from evidence so vague, nevermind actually trying to generate a conviction in someone’s mind from such tissue paper. In such a case, the idea of innocent until proven guilty must govern our personal private convictions, not just our public proclamations.

    This is especially true when there is real, solid, verifiable, extensive evidence of other, equally important issues where conclusions/convictions can legitimately be drawn. For example, chosen alliances with Ayers, Wright, ACORN, Trinity UCC, etc., public voting records, public statements in speeches and in writing, and so forth.

  61. #491992
    On October 8th, 2008 at 9:04 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    It is useless, TOS. They will come up with any barely plausible justification and/or conjure whatever wild conspiracy theory and/or ignore clear physical evidence to assuage whatever tickle of doubt they may have

    That’s funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing about both of you. In fact, I think I just made a case for that!

  62. #491995
    On October 8th, 2008 at 9:08 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    TOS,

    However, your claim is that Governor Palin is, or might be, doing this.

    Again…where did I make that claim??? Please re-read my posts and tell me!!!

    Try your very first post in this thread:

    Now if we can just make Sarah Palin accountable for doing government business via Yahoo mail.

  63. #491997
    On October 8th, 2008 at 9:12 pm, chapoutier said:

    It is useless, TOS. They will come up with any barely plausible justification and/or conjure whatever wild conspiracy theory and/or ignore clear physical evidence to assuage whatever tickle of doubt they may have that Palin may have done just one tiny thing wrong.

    See what i mean TOS?

    simple text can be faked so easily

    Some 20 year old hacker is really going to take the time and effort to do that? You talked about accepting the simplest solution. Why are you throwing that out the window now? Solution 1 says that Palin simply used her private account improperly. Solution 2 involves a vast conspiracy and a lot of work tracking down legitimate sounding topics and real associates of Palin to come up with a fake email inbox list. Oh and notice how the Palin camp has not denied the veracity of any of the documents produced?

    Where they actually government or personal emails? Did they start as official correspondence, then spin off topic into non-governmental topics which where appropriately shifted to personal email? Where they CC’d or Forwarded from her government account for convenience? Were they sent to the wrong address accidentally? Were they even non-governmental business with official sounding topics like spammers try to use?

    See what i mean about barely plausible theories? And as to the “spam theory”, Wow. “Spam” with subject headings that are directly relevant from sources that just happen to have the same name as her colleagues. Come freaking on. This just shows the level of absurdity you are willing to go to.

    And even if they were official government business, was it anything more than innocuous unimportant stuff that was incorrectly handled through personal email? Or was she actually trying to hide something through personal email, even under dull generally meaningless subjects?

    Whether or not they were sensitive is irrelevant as to illegality of the action. It is illegal to carry on ANY government business on private accounts.

    It is simply disingenuous to claim that this is some sort of wild goose chase at this point or to say this is “vague” evidence. Again, there MAY be perfectly reasonable, legal explanations. But lets just say that a prima facie case has been made. The onus is now on the defense to disprove it.

  64. #492000
    On October 8th, 2008 at 9:20 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    Is it really so difficult a question? Do you condone Palin’s illegal behavior? Saying yes doesn’t mean you become a dirty lib or have to vote for Obama or anything. It just means you are not totally vapid.

    I don’t care what Palin does as long as it stops libs but cold. The likes of yourself can try and stop her.

  65. #492001
    On October 8th, 2008 at 9:26 pm, Goldwater Knight said:

    And calling me vapid because I balk your questions doesn’t make it so. I plead the fif.

    What would make me vapid is if I in good conscience pulled the lever for a candidate who allied himself with a psychotic bomb hurling terrorist who looks like he belongs to “geek of the month club.”

  66. #492002
    On October 8th, 2008 at 9:30 pm, chapoutier said:

    I don’t care what Palin does as long as it stops libs but cold.

    I figured as such.

    What would make me vapid is if I in good conscience pulled the lever for a candidate who allied himself with a psychotic bomb hurling terrorist who looks like he belongs to “geek of the month club.”

    No. We all make our choices and I have no issue with you not voting for Obama because of Ayers. It is relevant. But what Obama did at least has the benefit of not being illegal.

  67. #492005
    On October 8th, 2008 at 9:38 pm, EWTHeckman said:

    And as to the “spam theory”, Wow. “Spam”

    Look again! You missed two very important qualifying words. Given your rampant partisanship, it’s obvious that your blindness to what I actually wrote has absolutely nothing to do with how well your eyes work.

    My God! Why do I waste hours on you when I already know you refuse to see evidence even a blind squirrel couldn’t miss from 5 miles away. (Remember our abortion debate?)

    Stupid, stupid, stupid! ::: Pounding head against wall. :::

    Thanks for wasting my time… Again! To think that I could have been spending quality time with my family instead of trying to educate a fool who refuses to be educated! (Horse, water, drink, NOT!)

    The only reason I bothered with you at all is for the sake of those who actually care about the truth but don’t know what it is and some faint glimmer of hope that such basic principles as truth and reason might matter to you. Even so, maybe next time I’ll skip trying to educate you and jump right to putting fresh holes in my wall. At least that way I’ll have a little time left over for the really important things in life.

    GK, Fire for effect!

  68. #492006
    On October 8th, 2008 at 9:42 pm, jangar said:

    “Son, if I’ve told you once I’ve told you a hundred times…if you’re going to cheat and scheme, do it without getting caught! There, there son, that’s a nice little Democrat”

    Good night all.

  69. #492058
    On October 8th, 2008 at 10:45 pm, chapoutier said:

    My God! Why do I waste hours on you when I already know you refuse to see evidence even a blind squirrel couldn’t miss from 5 miles away. (Remember our abortion debate?)

    Oh yeah. I am the one ignoring evidence. Keep pounding that head buddy.

    Please elucidate us on what “truth” you tried to educate us on. All I saw was blatant ignorance of facts and absurd justifications and conspiracy theories.

    First it was “there is no evidence”. Then evidence was presented. Then it was “well the evidence could be fake” offering zero proof of that except the fact you WANT them to be fake. Or in the alternative “the evidence isn’t fake, but you can’t prove she did anything wrong because we don’t know if the emails were supposed to be secret”. But the law is broken, regardless of the specific content of the emails.

    At least Goldwater seems to have the good sense to be able to see what is obvious. Even if he does not want to come right out and say it, he is at least not jumping through the absurd hoops you are. God good have a shred of dignity and intellectual integrity.

    I said it before, for all the talk of how Obama is “The One” and how all of us supporters have some sort of messiah complex, I have never seen such a pitiful display of hero worship as I have with the readers of this site and Palin. Absolute refusal to acknowledge that she does anything but crap rainbows and spit kittens.

  70. #492102
    On October 8th, 2008 at 11:16 pm, garydt said:

    Even if Palin wrote illegal emails, do you want the hacker exonerated? Sounds like some of you want to make a national holiday for this hacker, and why did the press not mention the political persuasion of his father? All this time I had thought the MSM was very objective.

  71. #492123
    On October 8th, 2008 at 11:29 pm, chapoutier said:

    Even if Palin wrote illegal emails, do you want the hacker exonerated?

    No. Prosecute him. But I think the call for 5 years in prison is silly and partisan. Killers can do less time than that. But it really is a separate issue at this point.

    Sounds like some of you want to make a national holiday for this hacker

    Who, exactly?

  72. #492306
    On October 9th, 2008 at 7:17 am, Goldwater Knight said:

    I figured as such.

    No really I crafted that one for you. lol. Palin isn’t illegal anyway.

    No really, you choose to vote in a candidate that had an alliance with a terrorist and say, “Well at least it’s legal.” You don’t even see how you’re regarded by me.

  73. #492445
    On October 9th, 2008 at 9:37 am, garydt said:

    I thought you yourself and the other side was more concerned with Palin’s illegal emails then the hacker himself. As noted before the media never mentioned the hacker’s fathers political party inferring that the demos are sinless. Only the Saviour is sinless. Its not funny to be broken into, only last year my checking account was hacked and I temporarily lost thousands of dollars until the hacker was arrested.

  74. #496364
    On October 13th, 2008 at 5:12 am, davod said:

    As I recall, a lot of government e-mail systems, and, for that matter those in industry, prevent the user from accessing the system outside the secure network.

    If this is the case with the state of Alaska system, then the only way Palin would be able to work when on the move would be to use her private e-mail account.

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