The Chicken Littles lecture us not be Chicken Littles
The Treasury Department is telling us to be patient and not to panic.
After screaming that the sky was falling the past two weeks and holding a gun to our heads and peddling scare stores of martial law, they’re telling us to be patient and not to panic.
8.9 on the LMAO Richter Scale.
The usual suspects continue to argue that “We can’t do nothing.” I answered this mindless mantra yesterday on Neil Cavuto’s show. Don’t you dare tell us we’re doing “nothing:”
Doing Something is not always better than doing nothing.
From the Wall Street Journal:
Strategist Jim Paulsen, of Wells Capital Management in Minneapolis, said the fear that has gripped the market in recent days may be an unintended, self-fulfilling consequence of recent efforts in Washington to pass a $700 billion rescue of firms saddled with soured credit bets.
“To sell the bailout to the public, everyone from the President on down had to go out and tell people how bad everything was, that the world was coming to an end,” said Mr. Paulsen. “Ever since, people’s expectations about the economy have gotten worse and worse and worse, and their reaction to each new action to fix the problems has gotten worse and worse and worse.”
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This is precisely the message McCain needs to hammer home. How do we do it though? It’s too bad he supported the bailout. Maybe he thought he had to do something even though I believe something was the worst thing possible. He should have taken a lesson from Reagan, but as we’ve long known McCain is no Ronald Reagan.
Drill Here, Drill now, so we pay less and I won’t worry then.
Don’t just do something! Stand there! No, over there! No, not there, over here! No! No! No! Nevermind!
Hey President Bush, Congress, especially you Congressional Republicans! Listen up!
DON’T JUST DO SOMETHING! STAND THERE!
Success is a mind set.
I wonder what would happen if we heard all good and positive outlooks for 2 days.
We could recover a bunch in short order.
We have been thru worse and we will come out of this but all this negative crap is bringing down the sky, not the economy or real numbers, but all the negative talk and fear mongering.
Idiots saying sell everything and stay out for 5 years? That guy should be jailed.
Do the Dems WANT to buy us into socialism? Probably.
DONT LET THEM.
Wall Street operates in either of two modes: Greed or Fear.
They’re panicking right now mainly because they want to panic. And unfortunately, the government jumping in to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars isn’t providing reassurance, but instead reinforces the sense of panic:
“The feds wouldn’t be acting so desperate unless we really are in trouble — we’re all gonna die! Sell! SELL!!”
Sorry Rogue. You beat me by that much.
Michelle,
Thank you for going out there and standing up for the truth. We are letting the same idiots that caused the problem to fix it. Hopefully we can start waking up enough people to straighten out America.
Ha! Usually I’m always a keystroke short.
That is $700 BILLION EACH AND EVERY YEAR!
Ah who was it that said (paraphrase) nobody understands how useful it is to be useless
The solution to this government created mess is obviously more government. Let’s put them in charge of Health Care too. That way they can tell me not to get hysterical when I’m told I have cancer but treatment isn’t economically feasible for the country.
Bingo-
I wrote here about 10 days ago that “You can NOT fix a problem with the same minds that created it.”
Populace too lazy? Puppy Uppers!
Populace too crazy? Doggy Downers!
They will provide for free, all the amphetmines and ritalin as needed.
Reminds me soooooo much of being in the Military.
Hurry up! Move it! Move it! Get your lifejackets on! Linehandlers man your stations! Expedite stationing Manuevering Watch! Go! Go!
Hey, where are the tugs?
Yes, we must be patient because this mess is going to take a long long time. Here are some tea leaves for ya to read:
We need to look at Ireland. Changes in fiscal tax policy in the late 80s there took their economy from deep recession to near double digit growth through much of the 90s. It’s still one of the healthiest economies in the EU.
Republicans should form policy based on that model and talk about it! It’s a positive message that offers real hope, and should resonate with even the most economically illiterate fence-sitter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland
Well said Michelle. It doesn’t seem like anyone but you and a handful of conservatives in Congress are saying homeownership and credit are NOT a civil right.
The housing market ran up. How many times have we looked at housing prices and ask rhetorically, “How the hell is a young couple ever going to afford to buy a home?” Not that it’s their natural born right to do so, but the point was the shock at the way home prices skyrocketed! And based on what?? Well… now we know what it was based on.
You want more people to own a home? Let the housing market correct.
Wow, a $1.00 for every time I saw the Green Machine equivalent of that. Hurry up and wait.
GREAT POINT!
Don’t any of ‘them’ realize how many
jobs will be created by Drilling…
Can’t they see the Boost to the
Economy that it will create.
karl and the girls
1 Trillion well spent
I see Jimmy Carter is pointing fingers at George Bush for this economic fiasco. The only thing he is trying to do is make sure there is a President who will be perceived as worse than him. Not sure that’s possible.
I apologize if this has already been covered,but I thought that if you didn’t have 20% to put down on a home loan you had to get private mortgage insurance(to protect the lender in case of a default).
(sarc on)Insurance? I don’t need no stinkin insurance. (sarc off)
#22 okbayou:
That was a long time ago in a galaxy far away……….
I can’t see any humor in this at all. These frigging moron crooks are going to bleed us dry.
How many times do investors have to get burned in the market. What everone is failing to see is that no one in their right mind will ever put money into the market again. I am waiting for it to stabilize then I am cashing out. Never again. They better come up with another plan cuz there won’t be anymore investors….they are reaping what they have sown….greedy bastards
Nothing might actually be the best strategy.
The market, IMO, is responding more to what the Fed, and other world governments, may or may not do to “help” than they are to real market forces.
We’re on the opposite side of ‘irrational exuberance’. The market fundamentals simply do not support the massive sell offs that are occurring.
Teh government needs to leave early for the holidays and say on the way out, “you guys figure this out”.
From your link:
- Ireland has state control of land transports services, electricity, radio and television.
- “The income tax system is designed to redistribute wealth from the richer to the poorer segments of society.”
- “The Irish government runs a Welfare state system. ”
- Nationalized Health Care
As the article by John Gordon in today’s Wall Street Journal points out, this situation is not a new phenomenon of our (U.S.) economic system. It is almost a feature, not a bug. Without perfect knowledge, we can only rely on our prejudices as to what the best course of action would have been. It could well be that even the best possible course of action would still have had awful consequences. And we would still be arguing over which was “best” depending on whose ox was gored. Life goes on.
Perhaps we should let ourselves and the world economies go down the tubes, and then, just when everything is looking darkest………
GO BACK ON THE GOLD STANDARD.
Nanner, Nanner, Nanner…..
It just goes to show that it is impossible to learn lessons from history.
By their own standards, the crap sandwich has failed.
Remember, the reason it “had” to be pushed through quickly and even with bribes attached was to prevent exactly what is happening now.
In my fantasies, I see W. (I actually think of him as Shrub now) confessing that he was wrong to push the idiotic panicky approach of Paulson and call on the Congress to send the crap sandwich back for a refund.
I had an interesting telephone conversation with one of my sisters yesterday evening, who tends to lean and vote liberal (unfortunately she’s planning on voting for BHO).
However, she was very much opposed to the bailout, and she was fortunate that her Congressional Representative, Dana Rohrabacher, voted against it. She told me that even though she disagrees with many of Rohrabacher’s policies, she’s likely to vote for him because he cast the correct vote on an issue of great importance.
She also said that Congressman Rohrabacher represented “old school” Republicans who were fiscally conservative. It’s a shame that someone who espouses fiscal conservatism should be considered old school, but that was my sister’s opinion (and a correct one at that) as to the direction that Republicans have gone in recent years.
The way the markets have responded to the government actions of the past few weeks reminds me of the saying “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.” I wish the government would just step aside and let the chips fall where they may.
Every election cycle we get to hear from the Dems about how bad the economy is and they make up numbers to try to convince the public that they are right trying to get elected … well guess what …
the Dems finally managed to actually crater the American economy with their malfeasance …
they ignored that classic warning …
Be careful what you wish for … you just might get it …
I’ll Roger that, DesertLover.
It sooooo reminds me of the Clinton administration building up billions of dollars in surplus.
Ten minutes after Dubya raised his right hand, it was “What surplus?”
Yup MM, I was one of those chicken littles, at least until the revised bill loaded with earmarks came out, then I changed my stance. After recent actions by international governments, the markets should not still be in freefall like this, they should, imo, have at least slowed down their descent if not actually hit bottom and start to creep back up. This is sheer panic-driven (and maybe short-selling driven to some extent now the ban has been lifted, but that’s a separate argument), and the panic is causing banks to continue to hoard cash and not lend, further exacerbating the situation in the markets.
The good news is that the overnight Libor rate dropped, which is hopefully a sign that the credit freeze is starting to thaw.. I’m trying to be positive here..
I’m doing something damnit – I’m buying stocks!
Ok, you’re right, so maybe not all of it, but there’s a lot to be learned from Ireland’s success. Here’s a better link about the Celtic Tiger: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Tiger
No one is talking about cutting spending and returning to an era of fiscal responsibility. McCain half-heartedly mentions it on the stump, but it gets lost in all the other noise.
We all need to stop treating the fed govt budget like it’s a giant credit card and we can just continue to increase our line of credit and continue to only pay the minimimum monthly payment. It’s ridiculous.
McCain needs to address this and even inject a bit of showmanship into it.
Symbolic cuts are important. I would start with ending presidential welfare (given the economic crisis, should we really be on the hook for maintaining office space, etc for prior Presidents — talk about a golden parachute) and an immediate 10% cut across the board against all federal agencies.
Expecting McCain to inject a bit of showmanship into his campaign is like expecting a keg at a Baptist picnic.
I can remember when the market was down over 30% and no one was calling it Armageddon, we called a bear market. What gives?
The worse thing we could do is to be frightened into electing a Socialist freshman senator from Chicago POTUS.
Defector01
I’m right along side of you on that …
I still stand by the street knows that Obambi won and they are taking their capital gains now before he gets in office and raises the gains tax.
Knife-n-Dork, Ireland is a small country and doesn’t have the same problems as the US and Europe bordering the mediterrean with large numbers of uneducated and unskilled migrants showing up and receiving generous social entitlement benefits.
Ireland has recently relaxed its immigration guidelines, (which may be the beginning of its downfall), but until most recently has been a very cloistered and homogeneous country.
Just stating facts.
shooter #13
“You can NOT fix a problem with the same mind that created it.”
Your words make far too much sense, shame on you!
I want to see this tattooed on the forehead of every person that made the decision to place the same cretons in charge of this mess.
Hangfire
That would be like expecting the lead in the local community theater to win an Oscar wouldn’t it?
Speaking of Oscars, this guy Paulson looks too much like John Waters for anyone to appoint him to any position of authority.
If they keep doing this, you’re going to run out of ‘A’ to ‘LO’.
Agreed. As Obama’s (perceived) poll numbers went up the market went down.
The Biggest Losers: Active Military getting re-assigned and having to try to sell their houses about now.
You’ll also get a kick out of this John A.
Damn, that makes me as smart as a company CEO.
I wouldn’t let Obama be boatswain’s mate on a buoy tender.
John,
Since there is a perception that Obama is going to win, there is, and will continue to be, a flight of capital from the market. Investors don’t like socialists and all that that engenders for the market. I agree, the sell-off is to preserve capital and take gains, but then they are going to look for somewhere safe to park their money until this shakes out. Which is the exact opposite of what the market needs right now.
Fox News just broadcasting that the World Bank computer systems have been hacked into …
You want the markets to recover? CUT THE CAPITAL GAINS TAX NOW!
You’d think so, but the markets have traditionally fared better under a Democratic President. Of course, a Democratic congress coupled with a Democratic president changes the game.
I think it’s a little short-sighted to never invest in the market again. At the end of it all, all those companies are just that – companies. If you think they have a good business model, then buy a piece of them.
On October 10th, 2008 at 1:00 pm, DesertLover said:
Fox News just broadcasting that the World Bank computer systems have been hacked into …
due to manipulation of the financial markets from the day traders in the 90’s, which created a bubble that then popped, to the Fed’s intervention a catastrophe was certain to occur. the continued manipulation of the markets to prevent a recession, which was bound to happen anytime Fed Int Rates go below the Bond Rates and the Fed Int Rates begin to rise again as these to rates intersect a ‘recession occurs 100% of the time’ nothing you can do to stop it, but alas the Feds thought they could. once again, a manipulation of the markets occured and bubbles were bursting but feds continued to manipulate until all the manipulation in the world was not going to stop the bursting of the bubbles.
reality has a way of doing that, especially in the financial markets. now, we may actually have deflation occuring and there is no stopping this puppy until it stops on its own. feds need to back off and let this ride.
another phenomenon: big money has its finger in the air, presuming an Obama presidency and they are getting their money out now taking the lower of the capital gains tax. going to ride it out to see what happens Nov. 4. if obama is in, they will place their money where his, pelosi’s and reid’s tax and spend policies cannot touch their money. after all, there will be no veto power to stop pelosi and reid and the no drill congress. absolutely nothing, the big money knows this and are getting out now. period. end of discussion. they don’t care what the facts are on the ground (actual financial status of companies they have invested in), they are putting their money where government can’t get at it; and, mainstreet be damned!
well, folks, this is the beginning of what an Obama Economic Policy would look like! Enjoy suckers!
MP: Nice try, but no prize.
Look at the market capitalization of socialist-democratic countries.
Do you see foreign investors falling over themselves to invest in France or the other dreamy Democratic havens?
No.
YTZGal
Most likely WWIII … sorry to say that but history shows that it was not FDR that ended the Great Depression it was WWII … the Dems like to condemn the military but when they shut it down it costs millions of jobs and more …
Also, the Great Depression was worldwide, not just in the U.S. The Dems never mention that, either.
John Ansell and uhangtight …
almost verbatim what I offered here over 3 weeks ago … thanks for agreeing … truly wish I was wrong but don’t think so …
Hello! MSM did you miss this story?
5 million subprime loans went to illegal aliens…. anybody…
If we all weren’t so busy paying for societal leeches who have a hand in causeing this mess we might have time to march to D.C. and take it back.
Condensed progression—
Warning on top of warning.
Bipartisanship.
Bailout manna.
Planet freaks out, markets keep sliding.
Bunglesmuck.
Screwed.
Are investors blameless? They seem pretty wimpy to me, throwing in the towel to the detriment of all before the bailout effects are even known.
desert lover, i hope we are wrong, too, but i have worked for financial wall street firms, the bond market and have been watching pre-election sell offs for a few decades now and have to say this is what i am seeing and have been talking about to ‘people who think they know’ since the 90’s. the psuedo economic boom from clinton years was all a fraudulent and vegas like gambling frenzy perpetrated upon the mainstreet america.
we are watching the chickens coming home to roost now from the clinton economic boom, it is now fully bust. market shares and value will have to be based upon the business plan, product, income and loss, and the inventory valuations. not, the shares are up because the volume of shares sold and the phoney manipulations of the markets by the likes of the short sellars and speculators. no more hedging your bets on a speculationn of the speculations on the market. no more shadow markets.
I never said nor implied that FDR or his policies ended the Great Depression.
IMO, the bailout was a huge mistake and is only going to slow the recovery.
I don’t see any Wall Street guys jumping out of windows yet.
uhangtight …
thanks for your input … I am not in the financial industry but have been doing my own investing for a lot of years and have a reasonable understanding of how it all works … seems we came to the same conclusions …
Isn’t showing a picture of a chicken racist?
desertlvoer, i am now out of the financial industry and working in healthcare/IT.. LOL.. i saw what was coming baby boomers needing healthcare and the delivery of the new healthcare via information technology. but, i keep a mindful watch on markets as they do impact mainstreet america. and when you tax the daylights out of the money makers, the job creators and the big bucks that make the circles keep spinning, that is when it all dries up and deflates. we are seeing deflation, i believe, and the bailout will only make deflation worse. ugh.
uhangtight:
that is the basics we were taught in economics and business courses, but I am very glum and do not believe that any rational response will be taken. Fiscal responsibility, personal accountability….those are the hard choices.
Instead, what responses are we seeing?
Frenzied attempts to keep the cult of E-Zee credit and entitlement alive.
With respect to the mortgage bailout, the only thing McCain said that I agreed with, is, those who were eligible when they first took out their loans will be eligible for a refi, no fraud or speculators.
Given the mess we are in, if someone can doc income and demonstrate ability to pay, then they should be offered a workout, because it is better to keep people in their homes if possible to stabilize the market.
YTZGal …
that was part of my response to your question in your post #57 …
my answer to your question was WWIII …
I was simply using the FDR part of my comment as an explanation of my reasoning for the WWIII comment …
Not really anything to worry about. All we have to do is import another 20 million illegals and give then mortgages they can’t pay for. It will obviously improve the economy. Sounds like a real “government” plan.
Ah, okay.
Well, we are already in the middle of a worldwide struggle. Read Mark Steyn’s “America alone”. We are truly the last frontier and we must hold the line.
Unfortunately, only a small percentage of the population “gets” that.
Rush broadcasting the man and woman at the Wisconsin campaign stop yesterday … in case you haven’t heard the woman especially tune in
JD:
Couldn’t agree more. Based on the logic of the open borders apologists, what with illegals contributing “more” to the economy than they take out, NYC and LA should all be running major surpluses and the rest of us can just kick back and cash our NYC-LA generated surplus checks.
I do agree, with that premise. Because, there are those out there that are able to pay, but due to some extraordinary reasons prior to this were unable to get into a home. However, the stablizing of the markets will not occur, until 1) it is assured Obama has lost and 2) the valuation of the inventory of mortgages has been determined. Separating the wheat from the chaff if you will in the inventory/papers of mortgage debt.
I am sorry to say, I wish McCain’s camp would wake up and realize that this is what is happening, the preparation of the big bucks for a Obama Presidency. They know what a Obama Presidency will be like and are preparing by keeping their money from being taxed. The big bucks also know that this will give the Tax and Spend, No Drill and Do Nothing Congress headed by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid will have not veto power blocking anything and everything they legislate. There will be no drilling of our own resources, there will be no nuclear power production increase, and it will all be green and clean ‘energy solutions’ subsidies coming down the pike. Look out folks. What people do not realize is that FDR’s policies actually allowed for the US to linger longer in the depression than had they adopted the lowering of taxes policies.
oh well, Socialism’s poop has hit the proverbial fan folks. duck!
They told us the world was coming to an end to get a pork-laden bill passed that allowed them to play God with our money, and now they’re wringing their hands because the world actually believed them. Do we have the Keystone Cops running our country?
Papa Louie …
No … it’s not the Keystone Cops … it’s the 3 Stooges …
Barack, Nancy and Harry …
It looks like the $700 Billion may not be enough to even offset the losses caused by the announcement of the $700 billion dollar bailout.
There is another way of looking at the big sell off going on: How many trillions of dollars does the market have to lose before the worthless subprime loan packages are no longer factored in to the total value?
Answer: Probably about 1.5 trillion dollars more. That has the Dow stabilizing somewhere around 6,500 points. Maybe 7,500 if people start to believe the government bailout will help.
The weekend will give a little breather and slow down the panic but next week will probably still be painful. The week after should be better.
Or not. All I know for sure is that it’s a very good thing I don’t have to depend on my 401K yet.
Don’t forget the forth stooge: MoCain.
He supported the bailout just as much as the other three. In fact, his plan to buy bad mortgages goes so far that even Obama opposes it because of the burden it would place on taxpayers. Now that gives me pause to see Obama defending taxpayers against McCain…
Papa Louie …
The explanation given for McCain’s proposal was that was the way he wanted the $300B housing bailout passed earlier by the congress to be used … and that the #300B should be used in that manner before any of the $700B package was used buying up any mortgages …
hey thats an INSULT to the 3 stooges…moe larry curley, or my FAV shemp would do a much better job!!!
On October 10th, 2008 at 12:08 pm, Knife-n-Dork said: Let me add 1 important word here,
right4life … sorry about that …
Does anyone on this board understand the difference between a credit liquidity crisis and an economic crisis?
Would somebody please bring out for me somebody who couldn’t get credit due to the supposed credit crisis. I keep hearing about it and how bad it is – but to date, I’ve not actually heard of a single NAMED entity (individual or corporate) who couldn’t get credit. I’ve heard generalizations – but nothing specific.
Are you serious? We’re you living under a rock?
Corkie – I stand by my statement. You still haven’t provided a name.
AIG.
How many more names do you want? And is it ok if you’re not familiar with the names I give you? I assume that you don’t know the credit markets.
Was AIG credit worthy?
Seems to me AIG was run by a bunch or execs with not much more scruples than Enron.
Please don’t assume anything about me.
Are you serious?
1. Why are you comparing AIG scruples to Enron? Because of the retreat scandal? What else?
2. Are you trying to compare the integrity of the accounting of the two companies? AIG is SOX compliant – are you accusing PWC of fraud or incompetence?
3. Are you trying to compare the integrity of the business model? If so, please enlighten me.
Gee, that’s a really bad question. What is credit worthy during a credit crisis? But for the record, AIG was never downgraded below investment investment grade.
(You could have a good job and a perfect credit score and still be non-credit worthy if I think that you’re employer and bank will dissolve.)
It seems safe to assume that you don’t know any of any ENTITY that couldn’t get new credit, had their LOC (line of credit) frozen/withdrawn, or had their creditors exercise a put option on their debt. Am I wrong?
Do you really think that certain institutions were issuing new credit while they were having their own lines frozen or withdrawn? During a credit crisis cash=strength. Everyone wanted strength. Some institutions demanded every dollar they could from their debtors while simultaneously refusing to pay many of their creditors. The system was breaking, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the economy was tanking.
What gets my goat is the “don’t panic” and “this will take time” rhetoric that were never mentioned when the theory of martial law was floating around.
I guess the “New World Order” conspiracy crowd just had plenty of fuel added to their fire, especially since the world’s richest nations are now in DC to discuss the future of the world markets.
I’m not a believer in that stuff, but I certainly am keeping my eye on what happens.