Tax laws themselves are cruel anyway you slice them. *smile*.

Go see the other thread. Let’s close this one.

But claiming that, since they are not able to file joint tax returns, that that is cruel… are you serious?!

Yes, I am serious. There is no good reason not to and you are treating them as second class citizens.

I’ve filed as both an individual, and as a couple. Neither is more “cruel” than the other. By insisting that forbidding someone to file a joint tax return is cruel, you have zero credibility, zero. CRUEL!

There is more to say, but if you insist that that is cruel, you are a lost cause, and right4life was right.

bankroll gay marriage to the tune of $1,000,000.  In California, 5 and 6 year olds are being taken to gay weddings as part of school sponsored field trips.I find it telling that the sex identity demands of adults (already legally……

They aren’t being oppressed or treated as second class citizens,

Yes, they are.

As for being born gay, I actually think it’s more an analog, rather than digital question and some folks are “more” homosexual then others.

Regarding the twins: the “experiment” wasn’t a good one because it isn’t a proper experiment. There are too many factors involved. For example, both twins may very likely be “naturally” rather gay but society exerts a great deal of pressure to be otherwise.

Concerning Sparta, not that it’s very much important to the conversation, but your description is a gross oversimplification as historians cannot agree on as to how far these relationships went. Since most people aren’t naturally gay, I am willing to bet most of these relationships were never consummated.

I’m not trying to deprive them of love, affection, companionship, or sex. … benefits for his girlfriend (whom he hasn’t married) or for his buddy.

The huge difference being is that you are saying Joe Sixpack can marry his girlfriend but a homosexual cannot marry his significant other. You are saying their love and affection is not valid for marriage. That is WRONG.

We ask, and even command, that people suppress certain inherent urges, including sexual ones, all the time. A lot of guys claim that they can’t be satisfied with just one woman.

So? Those guys don’t get married! Or get a divorce. Obviously, they aren’t in a happy marriage. Repressing urges telling me to kill or hurt someone is a totally different matter. Two gay consenting adults don’t hurt anyone.

But claiming that, since they are not able to file joint tax returns, that that is cruel… are you serious?!

Yes, I am serious. There is no good reason not to and you are treating them as second class citizens.

The reason why this analogy fails is that it is physically impossible for a wheelchair bound individual to get up the stairs.

No, its not. A wheelchair bound person could struggle with great difficulty to get up stairs. Just like a homosexual would have to struggle to marry a person of the opposite gender. The analogy is PERFECT.

To make a special exception, just for homosexuals wheelchair bound individuals, would be unfair to many others who would support their own definition of marriage are against wasteful spending on elevators or ramps.

I am getting tired of this conversation. At this point we should agree to disagree. Your posts are becoming longer and longer and I really wish you’d try and be a bit more concise.

I will submit to you this: even if you are right that gay marriage will lead to other social ills (which I don’t think it will) I don’t care. I do not care for the following reason: it is wrong to not allow gays the same privileges as heterosexuals. I have no doubt that long ago many people argued freeing slaves would create all kinds of social ills, and well, they were right (albeit probably for the wrong reasons)! It does not matter. Society will have to adjust, because telling a person in a wheelchair to use the stairs is WRONG.

We may not like reality, we may not like nature’s ways, but it is what it is.

If people actually believed this attitude we would still be living in caves.