Debate wrap-up: Senator Government vs. Johnny Mac and Joe the Plumber
No, there weren’t any knockout punches.
But John McCain was still standing at the end of the night — doubts about his fortitude adequately quelled — and Barack Obama ought to be wiping the smirk he borrowed from Joe Biden off his face.
Joe Wurzelbacher the Plumber was a heaven-sent gift for the McCain campaign, and for once, McCain didn’t flub the opportunity to rub the infamous “spread the wealth around” line in Obama’s smug face. Obama’s tin-ear response? Citing his billionaire “friend” Warren Buffett!
Alas, Ayers and ACORN receded into the background. But McCain brought the education debate to the present and spotlighted Obama’s anti-school choice policies that render him woefully out of touch with increasing numbers of minority families.
The best line of the night may have been unplanned (or maybe not)? In jabbing Obama’s spend-spend-spend plans, McCain called him “Senator Government.”
“Senator Government.”
It’s a fitting moniker for the Democrat candidate who spent the whole night talking about “investing” other people’s money. Perfect.
McCain ought to call him that from now until Nov. 4.
And someone from the McCain camp better have Joe’s phone number and arrange a joint appearance pronto.
Joe made Senator Government squirm.
Let’s see more. Better late than never.
See what others have said
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- McCain Hits the Nail but Fails to Finish the Job | The Daily Conservative
- Flopping Aces » Blog Archive » Reactions To Tonight’s Debate
- Poll Question: Who Won The Final Presidential Debate? | Jeffrey A. Setaro
- Stop The ACLU
- Rove: Obama Has Not Closed The Deal : Stop The ACLU
- One Fine Jay » Third presidential debate post-mortem
- The Other McCain: Senator Government
- The College Politico » Blog Archive » McCain in the debate, good or bad? What do you think?
- Health Care BS - SENATOR GOVERNMENT REPEATS “20 MILLION” LIE
- Neocon News » The truest words spoken at the last presidential debate
- McCain Did A GREAT Job: I AM NOT GEORGE BUSH IF YOU WANTED TO RUN AGAINST HIM YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE SO 4 YEARS AGO « Dianej’s Weblog
- The Third And Final Presidential Debate: Open Thread…JOE THE PLUMBER’S ELECTION | Right Voices
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- Presidential Debate Liveblog! v3.0 UPDATE: He DID! He DID! He DID say “Sen. Government!” « WitSnapper | The Blog
- Joe The Plumber, Small Business, And The Debate | Bitter Knitter
- There's My Two Cents
- Reactions on the third and final Presidential Debate | Mofo Politics | Everything McCain, Obama, Palin, and that other guy-related
- McCain Pummels Smirking Obama « Quipster
- skewred.com » The Last One — Finally!
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- Penultimate Debate in Review | Constant Conservative
- Obama smirks, lies, stammers; Nobody Cares! « Riggword Weblog
- What some Christians are saying about the 3rd Presidential Debate | blogs4God
- Debate reax: Closing the sale… or not. | BitsBlog
- The Irascible Chef » Senator Government!
- killrighty.net » Blog Archive » Obama declared winner in debate by default
- Joe The Plumber’s Chat With Couric After The Debate | BigMouthFrog
- sisu
- Debate Reax: Closing the Sale… Or Not. : The Conservative Reader
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On October 15th, 2008 at 11:34 pm, DesertLover said:
committed said:
Did Krauthammer suffer some facial injuries in an accident sometime in his past?
The reason you never see a full shot of Krauthammer is that he is confined to a wheelchair … he has been paralyzed since a diving accident in 1972 … so in answer to your question … yes … there was an accident …
I thought McCain won the debate. I only wish McCain had performed like this during the first two debates.
The best line of the night was when McCain said something to the effect:
“I’m not President Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have ran for President 4 years ago.”
Geraldine Farrio “it doesn’t matter what we think.”
As a devoted supporter of McCain-Palin (particularly Palin) I hate to drop in with a negative note. But as a former debater and debate coach at an “ivy league” institution, I was appalled at McCain’s atrocious preparation for this debate, which everyone knew was absolutely critical for him. Debates are won and lost in rebuttal. You present an argument, your opponent, unless he is blind stupid, has anticipated that argument and gives his prepared response, and THEN the debate begins. On issue after issue McCain would make a strong argument, Obama would give his canned response to this long-anticipated argument, AND MCCAIN WOULD PROMPTLY DROP THE POINT. In formal debate, that is called “conceding the argument” and it means that YOU LOSE! Now these debates go on after the fact, and it may well be that the weakness and superficiality of the Obama responses will be made apparent by others in some effective way, BUT WHY THE HELL WASN’T MCCAIN PREPARED TO GIVE THOSE RESPONSES HIMSELF? We all knew what Obama’s rote responses would be. WHY WASN’T MCCAIN PREPARED? What an atrocious staff!!
I wish McCain was like this in the previous debates.
Geraldine Farrio,
Aren’t you and your party banking on the young uninformed vete?
you just said that the poll that Fox News is doing is skewed by the youngsters text messeging in and you acted like those people were a joke.
I appreciate your assessment, materialist. Time restraints were a factor and I was turned off when Obama kept insisting on more time during the last debate.
Here’s the truth as I see it: McCain doesn’t need the independents and the undecideds. McCain needs his party base, the you’s ‘n me’s, as the country (and the Dems!) saw after introducing Sarah Palin. WE’RE the ones he needs to fire up; not those who can’t make up their mind or who have no conviction of heart as to what they want for this country.
If that makes me part of the “mob mentality” some others find so offensive, well I can live with that.
McCain can’t win without us, and it is when WE are enthusiastic that we can rally others to our team.
The Obamatrons cannot out-cheer the patriots on the side of righteousness.
Let’s go, Team!
Justin Timberlake just released a video for Obama. I shudder to watch.
Obama smirked when Senator McCain said to listen to “how eloquent” Obama sounded which meant to me that Obama can “talk his way around any subject without giving a substantially clear answer”! Obama still wants everyone’s money to “spend as he sees fit”!
Obama is lost without his campaign teams’ “instant” over-night speeches flowing over a tele-prompter! When his prompter wasn’t working Mon, he talked about “pie” 19 times in 60 seconds!
Bob Scheiffer rudely interrupted Senator McCain more than once AND by my stop-watch allowed Obama to “meander on and on” ad nauseum (sp!)past the time limit many times!
Just remember if we allow Obama to be elected, he will align with obstructionists/socialists Pelosi, Reid, Frank, and they will have a “stranglehold” on the American citizens - that’s YOU and ME! jk
I’m with you, vickisoup! I’ll talk it up, but I’m afraid my car and house will be destroyed if I use signs. Now that’s what is sad.
McCain had the edge tonight, but it is the next 20 days that matter; The MSM will continue their efforts to derail the McCain/Palin ticket; McCain needs to beat Obama like a drum daily as a tax a spend liberal who has already expressed to us that he will take from Joe the plumber and millions more like him to “spread the wealth”; Joe and other thinking people out there won’t be fooled into voting for Carter redux.
Pundits and pollsters ca d their thing. On November 4 we do ours.
That’s what counts. Until I see the numbers I am not buying the Inevitable from the likes of the media. It’s out vote not theirs.
Can you tell it’s late?
Let’s do the spelling a TAD better
Pundits and pollsters can do their thing. On November 4 we do ours.
That’s what counts. Until I see the numbers I am not buying the Inevitable from the likes of the media. It’s our vote, not theirs.
Don’t be afraid, committed. I live in the People’s Republic of Santa Cruz and have bumper stickers and yard signs galore. Nobody has trashed any of them. I have found that my boldness inspires some other closet conservatives to do the same.
There is something profoundly wrong when a conservative republican has to take his inspiration from Dick Morris.
I wish McCain would have mentioned how this all happened under a Democratic Congress, as the Congress has lower approval ratings than the President. Having said that, McCain put Obama on the defensive, which was good.
I quite agree. Schieffer let Osama Obama off the hook when McCain’s jabs hit home.
At the same time, if McCain had tried to point out all of Obama’s lies tonight (especially re: Ayers, ACORN, abortion and schools) the debate would have run four hours.
The grudging commentary by the MDS crowd — including Ms Malkin — tells me my impression was right: McCain did a superb job tonight. Sadly, he can never do well enough, because he is not the Ronald Reagan conservatives want to remember.
Thanks in large part to them, we will have a lying, inexperienced leftists, who surrounds himself with traitors, felons and race-hustlers. We face four years (at least; probably eight or more) of repression, economic and security suicide, vote fraud and Marxism.
But hey, the “false conservative” will have been defeated, and the hard-core right will be trampled with their so-called philosophy intact.
Hell of a way to lose a war, and a nation.
I was trounced on this blog several months ago after posting my letter to the RNC decrying McCain as the candidate but saying regardless I would vote for him. I did just that today. I would hope after seeing the Marxist that would be king and knowing what his court will hold should he be elected, others will do the same. McCain may not be our candidate of choice, but the alternative is unacceptable and un-American.
ChicagoRobb said:
McCain did (once) point out that the Democrat congress had been in control the last 2 years.
He did put Obama on the defensive, throughout the debate. He obviously got under his skin a few times.
What was McCain talking about, during this debate and first one, when he mentioned training programs for “displaced workers”? In the first debate he said: “For workers in industries that have been hard hit, we’ll help make up part of the difference in wages between their old job and a temporary, lower paid one while they receive retraining that will help them find secure new employment at a decent wage.”
If people get laid off, then they need to find themselves another job. If folks are laid off, that means that the supply of workers in that particular industry is too high. But you know what? Supply in another industry is likely very low, so they can get a job there. Why should I, as a taxpayer, have to pay someone to get more qualifications for another job? And why should I pay the difference, as a taxpayer, in the wages for that person’s old job compared to their new “temp” job?
Not to mention, these artificial changes in the dynamics of the market would have serious impacts on the job market as well. (A) Competition for higher paying jobs would dwindle. Why work harder or smarter to move up or to a “better” job when you can get paid the same wages for doing less? (B) More workers would seek jobs in certain industries than others despite what the market demands dictate, creating an artificial market for workers in certain industries (i.e. too many workers flocking to gov’t-favored industries vs. market favored industries). This is no different than the problems with government subsidies.
Lastly, how is any of this Constitutional? Not that this matters much to most politicians, it does matter to me though.
Krauthammer is not in the tank for Obama. I didn’t see him on Fox tonight, but he has written some articles that absolutely pounded Obama and his lack of experience for the Washington Post.
As for Kristol, he is what he is. I’m a fan of his publication, the Weekly Standard, though it does promote amnesty. But it also provides solid conservative analysis of gay marriage, abortion, education, economics (Kristol’s dad is Irving Kristol, a noted economist from what I can gather), and a whole host of other issues. I get National Review for solid commentary opposing the amnesty.
Actually saw Krauthammer at a Nats game this year. He must have just gotten off the tv, cuz he was still rocking the pancake make-up. lol
Sadly, the Fox News commentators tend to align with liberal Republicans. That is why I no longer trust their commentary.
Fortunately, the Palin pick has done a good job of getting the closet liberals to expose themselves. It is the liberal, Washington establishment Republicans that are killing our party.
matt, if you would have seen Krauthammer tonight on Fox, you’d understand where we’re all coming from. He was extraordinary, if not even somewhat giddy (as much as K could muster, anyway) in his praise for Obama. Succinctly put here, and a near quote: “Even Ronald Reagan couldn’t have outshone Obama”.
WTH??
I turned off FOX about 15 minutes after the debate. I couldn’t stand it.
Vickisoup,
We live in the People’s Republic of Monterey….and I’m feeling pretty upbeat!
Obama and Sam Farr have both started running ads (!), I see lots of McCain/Palin yard signs, *and* McCain now has a “Victory” office in Seaside! Earlier this summer, the closest McCain “victory” office was a couple of hours away!
“Joe Plumber” is asking the questions that nobody has been able to get answers to…..and I think the momentum is in McCain’s direction.
McCain might want to rethink any appearance with Joe the Plumber. Politico is reporting he’s not registered to vote.
Mookie, maybe Acorn woulf go take care of the registration.
I’d like to see that one
Hey YTZGal, that’s excellent news! I almost made it down to Seaside tonight, but didn’t get out of an earlier commitment in time.
I am stoked.
Considering the lack of suitable options, I can understand why he wouldn’t feel the need to waste his time. I don’t agree (I’m writing in my vote), but I understand.
Actually Joe said he wasn’t going to say who he was voting for…ie, keeping the secret ballot a secret:
Even so, Wurzelbacher declined to say which candidate would get his vote on Nov. 4.
“That’s for me and a button to know,” he said.
I’m sorry to say that the knockout punch came a few weeks ago, and it doesn’t really matter what was on TV last night.
McCain has already been held responsible for our economic problems by a significant amount of voters.
Many people consider the Presidential election to be a referendum on how they feel about the quality of life they’ve been left with after the previous administration. Massive amounts of Democrats voted for Reagan in 1980 in reaction to Carter for this reason.
I can’t talk any of them out of voting for BHO - can you?
Of all the states not to be registered in, right?
Yep, Vickysoup….and my 23 yo daughter has been doing a great job explaining to her peers why they don’t want to vote for Obama….she has been answering all of their questions about a cradle-to-grave welfare state, socialized medicine….and explained that even Canada voted for a conservative economist. She has managed to convince several prior Hillary supporters and persuaded some independents to register and vote for the first time.
This isn’t going to be the runaway landslide the pundits want to predict. Obama is going to have to fight for every vote.
Krauthammer worked for Carter, and was a speechwriter for Mondale. He also wrote for the New Republic. He’s extremely liberal on pretty much everything except for supporting Bush’s policy of pre-emptive war on terrorists.
Old Scout,
There is no hope for the hardened partisans. So don’t waste your breath.
However, you can explain that the Democrats have had control of Congress.
I have found that the soft sell approach works best. Usually I start out by asking why they are supporting Obama to gauge the level of their commitment. Then I ask them “which” policy in particular has them fired up, and then begin to deconstruct it.
I have had some successes, but you have to be careful not to get people defensive. People are very worried about Obama but also Bush is very unpopular, so they feel torn.
Victory song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE4oE-OYNb0&feature=related
(Gretchen Wilson sings Sarah’s theme song better than Heart.)
Maybe he isn’t. Doesn’t make his point any less valid, or the confiscation of his wealth any less painful.
Both of them went on and on about how they would give us better education, health care, retirement, stronger economy, energy, homes without foreclosure, less global warming, and never rain on us if we have a day off. It was just a matter of degree. They could not bring themselves to say “It’s not the government’s job.” on anything. Liberal and liberal-lite.
Thanks for this update Michelle. I did not watch the entire debate, but I’m glad you did. I trust your analysis, thanks.
Obama made a point to explain his opposition to the Columbian free trade agreement. His negative position is based upon his valuing Columbian! pro-union organizers (nb, not necessarily Columbian unions per se) more than the well-being of United States economic partners. If he’s elected, Obama becomes the nominal head guy of the Democratic party.
A couple questions:
1) Is this the first time a Democrat has come out of the closet on this issue? I don’t remember even Pelosi or Reid being this forthright.
2) Could this be the first Obama Doctrine? (ie, Cut off the US farmer’s nose to spite the face of free trade in support of international trade unionism?)
3) Can we expect to see an Obama Administration’s foreign assistance to include defence of union organizers?
I didn’t see any talking head spot this. Am I making a communist mountain of a socialist molehill?
Joe “the plumber” Wurzelbacher chimes in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdLPWfTczM4
“Obama’s Proposal Scares Me Because It’s Just One More Step Towards Socialism”
…sorta says it all, don’t it…?!!?
If he doesn’t put “Joe the Plumber” in big letters on his trucks he’s makin a huge marketing mistake.
Just goes to show you that a brainless moron would vote Obama. Obama voters are going to be hounded so bad they won’t be able to sleep at night over the next four years.
Wurzelbacher/Palin ‘08!
By the way, Wurzelbacher gave an interview to ABC News today:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/joe-the-plumber.html
Cute little catch-phrase, and if he does use it it will work very well for him.
Of course, it’s pot meet kettle yet again.
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
And people think he’s going to win with these supporters?
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
Of course McCain’s already in bed with all of the above, so no foul.
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
Someone I was watching the debate with thought “Joe the Plumber” sounded like the name of a Chicago mobster.
Who are you talking about? Michelle? Us??
The only Republican that’s a part of this topic is John McCain, and he’s the farthest thing from a conservative that party has to offer.
Even Dick Morris is to his right.
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
Joe the Plumber is obviously a racist.
and by the way, if Joe the Plumber, himself, becomes significant, watch the DESTRUCTION of this man right in front of our eyes.
Mccain need to tell everyone that if he elected that he’ll cut taxes and let people try and be joe the plumber.
Ps we need to win i don’t want borat in office and i want sarah there.
I swear, the last time I sat in front of a TV like that with my jaw hanging open wondering did I fall down a rabbit hole or something, was when Baghdad Bob was telling us that the Americans had been defeated.
I mean I’m going to vote for McCain anyway, regardless of if the polls have him losing every last electoral vote, but I don’t think anything at all break the hold of this weird mass hypnosis. I honestly believe that if Obama told everyone he was going to ask them to get his name tattooed on their forehead, they’d just ask what color of ink he’d prefer.
Hope and Change = Tax and Spend
Tax and Spend liberal. He needs to start using that phrase and drive the point home.
Remember when Clinton’s slogan was “It’s the Economy stupid” This could be the Republican’s slogan “It’s Rezko stupid”
http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2008/10/how-to-steal-election.html
Joseph Wurzelbacher set Diane Sawyer straight this morning–not that she noticed. There is not one person in the media who isn’t a narcissistic dumbass.
Joe Bides says: “I don’t have any Joe the Plumbers in my neighborhood who make 250K a year”:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=j66LUroXUck
Joe the Pluber - a GOP plant? I can alreary see the narrative building up…
Joe Bides says: “I don’t have any Joe the Plumbers in my neighborhood who make 250K a year”:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=j66LUroXUck
Joe the Plumber - a GOP plant? I can alreary see the narrative coming into shape. Probably a good talking point for DailyKos
biden should know about lowly people making big bucks, his family members have sucked a couple of million bucks from being campaign staff to an imbecile. though john mccain will never be my first pick to become the next president, the thought of obama/biden looking at me from the tv for the next four years is more than i can handle. bush proves what compassionate conservatism means, rino, and mccain is very similar. but mccain will be the commander in chief we need, and in the end, the presidency is a bully pulpit job AND the commander in chief. if we just elect mccain, and don’t alter congress, the next two years will be more of the same. let’s investigate every time someone in the white house breaks wind, and impeach someone for something because everybody i know knows those republicans are racist scoundrels who deserve to be burned at the stake. REMEMBER BILL CLINTON!!!
Of course Joe the Plumber is a plant and a nazi and a racist, bigot, homophobe and a Kulak as well!
Anyone and everyone who opposes Obamassiah is evil.
We should all feel sorry for poor BHO who was brutally ambushed by this evil man. It is only a matter of time until some Obama campaign volunteer remembers some threat Joe made against Obambi and calls in the Secret Service.
Joe is going down!!!
Obama would never ask them that…just the NUMBER of his name..
and he’d let them get the mark on their hands or their heads….
Well, that’s because Joe ” Home Depot” Biden does the plumbing in Scranton.
close…Joseph “Joe the Clown” Lombardo…Antonino “Joe Batters” Accardo …all people Obama of course is not friends with…just live (or did) in his neighborhood…. capiche??
Right Wing Nuthouse and Powerline blogs are giving up. They say Obama will be elected.
Those quitters!!!
vickysoup#108, your analysis is spot on. when mccain announced palin and conservativesheard palin and mccain say they would fight corruption and overspending in washington, he won in the polls by several points. now he wants to talk about “my friends have i told you about bill ayers in the last 30 seconds” don’t tell me anymore about bill ayers, tell me about why you support bailing out everyone on the planet, and inviting every juan in latin america to come here and suck up our welfare society.
btw, in st louis yesterday a community organizer, who’s one claim to fame was having a mob stand in a highway to block traffic to pressure politicians into MANDATING 20% minority involvement in the rebuilding of that highway (despite only 14% of the population being black), was sentenced to prison for income tax evasion in failing to declare $450,000. of course community organizers are more important than plumbers or governors.
Obama’s friend Warren Buffet is sure free to spread his wealth around if he wants, but I don’t want him telling me what to do. I hope Warren doesn’r end up with a job in an Obama administration.
When the folks here in Omaha (where Buffet lives and works) want to be nice, we call him eccentric. But we all know he is a goofball weirdo. Some of the things he does at home are downright kooky. Like his odd love life us Omaha cats have had to watch for over 30 years.
Buffet was smart to buy Coca-Cola and Dairy Queen, but since he’s gotten into reinsurance and other areas he doesn’t understand, his shine has begun to fade. His associations with Bill Gates, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Barack Obama are creepy. About the only things Warren has in common with Obama is a bunch of rich, elitist friends and a desire to see ordinary Joes pay more taxes.
It is funny how Buffet and Bill Gates Sr. want everybody to pay more taxes. Yet, I don’t see them offering a bigger share of their vast fortunes to the US government.
Gates, Buffet, Kerry, Clinton, Gore, etc. could all be far more generous to the US Treasury than they are. If it isn’t good for them, why would it be good for Joe the Plumber and me?
“Sanctimonious hypocrites” is a phrase that comes to mind.
Maybe this information will help sway the Obama supporters who think he will improve the economy. Michigan has been living (or actually dying) under the Obama economic plan. It was put in effect by MI’s Dem. Gov. Granholm. If you can get them to read the entire article, it is an eye-opener.
http://mcauleysworld.wordpress.com/2008/09/08/michigans-dem-governor-granholm-appoves-of-obama-tax-policy-matches-her-policies-of-last-6-yrs/
I can’t say much for Obama’s substance,but Obama not only won last night’s debate on points, but on style as well. Last night was the first time where I actually would prefer Obama over McCain as president despite the socialistic future he will bring (based on the debate only of course). But then again, our compassionate conservative in the White House has made things easier for him by nationalizing our banking system, among other questionable acts.
McCain is a Senator and just can not get beyond that. Being a Senator was never Obama’s primary goal, so he doesn’t act like a typical one, but McCain plays the part to a “T”. McCain is built for those one liners after a “grueling” Senate debate, in which they all pat each other on the back inside, then go outside to pretend they all hate each other in front of the media for a second and then meet each other at the cocktail party down the street.
Most importantly for the debate and I am sure for policy in general, McCain doesn’t know how to finish anything. Of course his start isn’t very good either, but he never knows how to finish. With this being the case, the cool and calm Obama just sits back patiently, rambles about nothingness and waits till McCain fizzles out.
I doubt Obama even broke a sweat last night and there is a good chance, he won’t the rest of the way to election night.
This thing is getting more bizarre by the moment - so let’s what we’ve got here:
Some guy named Joe, who’s a plumber and makes over $250,000 a year?
And he’s worried about his bank account?
And you people actually believe this story? Okay, I’ll take your word for it.
This must be very difficult for all of you - you’re watching this talented man from America’s heartland (Kansas) who wants to create a green industry in the heartland and is attempting to create 5 million new jobs based in the heartland - but there’s one catch - the man who’s proposing this has black skin (so you have to find reasons not to support his ideas and you come up with a plumber making $250,000 a year).
Even though Obama says Joe “the 250K plumber” is exempt from my tax plan.
What is it about people of color that you folks hate so much?
That’s the problem…when are we going to stop judging people purely on style? If that’s the case, we’ll end up with a Mussolini or Hitler someday. Bad enough that “style” got us 8 years of Billy Jeff Clinton.
Hey moonbat, since you love Hussein the Socialist so very much, I am going to allow you the distinct pleasure of paying for my tax increase after he steals the election.
I’m a small business owner, and can barely afford the current tax rate. I am not voting for the guy who wants to raise my taxes which will put me out of business. You want to vote for the tax hiker. So, just let me know where I can send you my 09 tax bills. Thanks in advance! That’s very generous of you. Socialists are so generous!
actually he doesn’t, but he would like to.
I’m sure you beleived someone shouted ‘kill him’ about obama…sigh…
who is this? Obama is from Hawaii..and what is this fantasy plane you talk about?
charges of racism…so predictable from a racist liberal.
Ilovemycountry says “waaaaaaa, waaaaaa, waaaaaa”
So how many other articles on MM site have you posted the same tripe seeing if you can get a response?
Anyone on MM that even responds in kind to this post is giving in to the bait and I hope no one does.
Currently, the only hate being exhibited is by someone who has to say he loves his country in order to try to convince others and himself.
very good Winston, you’ve learned to love big brother!!
And people wonder how we got to this point, a choice between Obama or McCain, a socialist or a moderate socialist? Ever since Reagan, the Republicans, specifically the “conservative” branch of the party, has sold its soul in order to save what little they have left in terms of representation by the Republican candidates. “Conservatives” have been weak-minded, short-sighted, and, frankly, cowardly in regards to standing up for their beliefs. “Conservatives” (I have a hard time finding the meaning of the term anymore- even McCain claims to be one) have done themselves no favors by consistently voting for the “lesser of two evils” in the past 5 elections. We wonder why McCain won’t listen to the “base”? Have you ever thought that he realizes, with good reason, that he doesn’t have to do so? Why should he? He already has your vote. What else does he need from you? So what, you’re pissed off? Why should he care if you’re pissed off if he still gets your vote? “Conservatives” have been weak in not demanding that Republican candidates stand for their principles or else they won’t vote for them. “Conservatives” have lacked any vision by thinking that things would somehow get better by continually giving their blind support to those who don’t support their ideals. “Conservatives” have been cowardly by fearing the loss of what little they have in terms of political representation have rather than trying to win.
So this election day, whether anyone else stands with me or not, I’m doing my part to say “That is the last straw” to the Republican party by voting for a third party candidate. Some may say, “oh, well you’re giving your vote to Obama.” No, my vote is going to someone who shares my ideals, something of which neither Obama nor McCain have any apparent understanding.
Gimme a break! Joe never said he makes a quarter mil a year! He said he aspires to someday make that. Socialists like Obama want to penalize anybody that wants to build their own wealth! Socialists like Obama want to tax the living f*** out of anybody that wants to be self-made! People like The One will seek to destroy every ounce of entrepreneurial spirit America has left.
I’ve had it with you stupid Obama pushers!
Let me re-phrase my last line. Apparently, ErinF has enough hate to spread around as well, I stand corrected.
Erin, feel free to send me an email and you can send me any taxes you like. I don’t mind passion from the right and I am sure I am way passed you on that front of idealogy, but you need to learn to contain yourself. I spend time on liberal blogs and this one and have unfortunately seen so much hate coming from those I expect more from, including you and other MMers.
I do feel your pain as my wife and I would like to be business owners and literally came within a heartbeat of it just five weeks ago, but we pulled out fearing the current and future environment.
If you can’t read, then don’t post. Sorry for being so blunt. I wouldn’t vote for Obama if Marx himself was on the other ticket. I was merely talking about the debate and I stated that.
If you have anger, you need to join the crowd. You need to attack your party officials and McCain. I will neither lose or win this election, but the candidates will.
Bingo! “Ilovemycountry” wins the “race card” sweepstakes today. Frankly, I am surprised it took 71 minutes for some troll to make the claim.
Think about it. If the man works alone he needs only bill $83 an hour for 60 hours a week for 50 weeks to gross $250K. I am an IT consultant and I bill between $90 and $140 an hour. A plumber working his butt off can make a fortune. But, Obama and his leftist friends don’t want us to know that. In Obama’s world, success only comes to “fat cats” or from government hand-outs.
If a white man succeeds through his own work he must be oppressing a person of color!
We have a winner!!!!
I just got here and haven’t read everything, so may be repeating. I hope that everyone caught McCain’s comment about Obama being a good speaker, but we need to listed to the actual words. Like when Obama said he would “look into drilling in our own country”. The magic words are “look into”. McCain caught that and threw it back in his face. He didn’t have a reply to that. If McCain will now hammer home the drilling issue big time, emphasizing the job creation, economy boost it would bring…we have a winner. Not to mention we would stick it to the Arabs who hate us. Obama is a loser on that subject, as are all the dems. If Obomba is elected, we can kiss any drilling goodbye, also any nuclear plants. Between that issue and the tax issue, McCain can win.
Kudos to “Send_me” for #179!
I have had it with the GOP lying to me and taking conservatives for granted. McCain never was a true conservative as far as I can tell. His first response is to compromise his beliefs to work with the other party no matter how awful their ideas are.
I have told GOP officials and candidates for years that certain actions would result in the loss of my vote. They persisted and they lost my vote. And I reminded them of that fact regularly. Several of them are out of office today because conservatives stopped supporting their leftward tilts.
The last 4 years of the GOP culminating in the nomination of John McCain was the “last straw” for me. I will be voting for the Constitution Party this year and it will be a l.o.n.g time before I vote for a Republican. They have abandoned everything I believe in and sold their souls. Enough is enough!
Donut…we have a right to be angry and to express it here. We try to be civil and usually succeed. But we are venting and we have a right to do that. I don’t fault anyone who expresses their anger here. As long as we keep it within the bounds…not like kos or huffinton whose threads are full of wishes that people would die and disgusting comments about wanting conservatives to get cancer, etc. You don’t see that here..right? Calling Obama a socialist or a marxist is speaking truth, it is not trashing someone’s reputation with lies. Because we are better than that. But we do get angry!!
Happyscrapper I agree and the only “rights” anyone is trying to take here is to shut up other people from talking, which is the first line of defense for those that can not “argue” appropriately.
I already expressed that passion is acceptable and expected, but much like your #183 post states (in response to Obama), people need to hear and read the words. I expect this type of intelligence from MM people at the least. If something is not clear, than ask a question.
I have now called Obama (twice just here for the record) for what he is, which is a socialist. So why can other posters not pay attention? People want to come here to vent anger about the situation, it is understood, it is what I was doing. I don’t love Obama, but I am pissed at McCain and his inability to finish anything or to point at the obvious (even McCain can’t call Obama a socialist). The anger I dislike, is when people instead want to point it towards other people and lie about them. If you want to attack me for who I am and my principles, great! But when you can’t read . . .
I am neither hurt nor offended, just amazed again again.
Senator Barack Obama has a 100% rating from NARAL and Planned Parenthood, whereas his positions are 100% supporting abortion on demand with NO restrictions. In fact, he had told Planned Parenthood directly in a speech on July 17th, 2007:
“The first thing I’d do as president is sign the Freedom Of Choice Act.”
FOCA will strip any and all restrictions on abortion that have helped to reduce the number of abortions slowly but gradually over the decades.
Senator Obama made a statement last night on the abortion topic that, and I paraphrase, he “supports limits on late term abortions / partial birth abortion”. He made himself look like he was trying to find common ground on the abortion topic and likely scored points with viewers of the debate.
NOT! That is hypocrisy at its utmost when LIFE is at stake. He consistently is against ANY and ALL restrictions on abortion as consistent with his 100% rating form NARAL and Planned Parenthood and support for the Freedom of Choice Act.
See my blog that tries to take a Christian / Catholic point of view on this election. It’s my “layperson’s journey” to the Catholic Church challenge its faithful in “Forming Conscience through Faithful Citizenship”.
http://blog.iowacatholicvote.com
I really believe if a person professes true Christianity, and believes the Bible, they will be pro-life. I just can’t see it any other way. Am I calling Obama a hypocrite? You can draw your own conclusions.
I thought that McCain did much better than the last two snore fests. The problem for me is that he didn’t finish some of his thoughts, not that that’s possible in a 90 minute debate. I think he should have been aggressive much earlier.
Even if Obummer wins, I know why. I don’t think it will be just because Pres. Bush will be blamed for the economic doldrums. It will be because many Americans, of all political stripes, are too selfish and deluded to put down the credit card and do things on their own. They think that if they give control to the government that their lives will be much “simpler.” Oh, they will be much simpler all right.
I wonder if these people, these Obummer supporters, care what their precious messiah will do with the military. Will he let officers and enlisted close to retirement finish out their careers? How many Airmen, Marines, Army, Navy, and Coast Guardmen will keep their jobs to support their families? How many contractors and federal employees, who work with the military, will feel the bitter sting of Obummer’s economic policies?
What I’ve learned in this election is that Americans don’t keep their promises to the military. It is preferable to do the easy rather than the difficult. It is easier to blame the military, the rich guys, the Republicans, when identifying the real villains is more complex, more complicated than many Americans either want to be aware of or care to think about. That’s the troubling thing.
I’m sorry, I have nothing in common with Obummer or his supporters because I’ve actually sacrificed for this country. I’m tired of being lectured by these people that we need “change.” No, what we need is a reality check. Not a bash fest that doesn’t focus on the real culprits of the economic crisis, the Dems.
When did America stop seeing sense? When did they stop believing in themselves and instead Big Daddy government caring for their every whim? Americans are too scared to think for themselves or actually stop living beyond their means because that would mean they’d actually have to face up to their responsibilities and be grown ups for a change.
This may be America but I recognize her less and less.
How ignorant can you get? Do you think it’s right to defund the military and make military heroes into villains as your messiah has done?
The real heroes of this country are people like my military husband and Joe the Plumber who have more strength and courage to stand up for what they believe rather than people like you who is a follower, not a doer.
Obummer supporters make me sick. Dems don’t care about my husband or the military. It’s okay to demonize them. It’s okay to rob them of their retirement, as Clinton did when he made many military members, close to retirement, leave the military.
My husband and I have given up more for this country. What have you given up, I*hate*my country? What has Obummer given up? What makes him such a good leader? Because he promises revenge against those bad Republicans and military members?
When you walk a minute in any military member’s or spouse’s shoes, perhaps you’ll rethink your position. Probably not. You’d actually have to look past your brain cavity for once.
That article, was indeed, very revealing and enlightening. I have another example about what happens when a blue state tries to overtax its way out of overspending and deficits. I’m originally from the Upstate region of New York and that area has been in an ecoomic death spiral for the last decade. We used to have big industry there such as Kodak and they have disappeared because of lack of innovation or “overseas competition.”
Nobody ever does the really hard work of analyzing the situation. Nobody ever questions if the domestic taxing practices of big spending Dems (and Republicans) lead to economic downfall. New York is in the top 5 (or is it ten) states with higher taxes in the country. If there’s a tax that they can invent (out of Albany) they’ll create it.
What’s insulting is that Dems like Clinton and Schumer make polite noises of sympathy about trying to help the upstate region but they’re always looking out for their big donor downstate allies. The high property and business taxes of New York have put a lot of family farms out of business. I watched it all unfold as I grew up in the ’80’s. Yes, some had bad business models but others fell pray to hostile taxes by the state and the state letting in big corporate farms (or their companies contributing to certain Dems’ campaigns).
Another bad example that is endemic to New York is NCR. Once a powerhouse in manufacturing electronic equipment like cashier machines in the ’80’s, Cuomo let in big competition from Japan. New York taxed the crap out of NCR and made it easier to fall prey to foreign competition. Dems forgave Cuomo but many others will never forget what he did. Upstaters (the ones who know the truth) have no respect for the Cuomo family and their constant need to revive their dynastic ambitions by marrying into such families as the Kennedy’s.
Americans want change but many of us are seeing the same party in control of lot of the same old, big spending, big taxing states. Dems excuse it because they don’t think that overtaxing both businesses and people is bad. A lot of upstaters resent that their tax money goes to Albany to support a lot of the social experiements such as, namely, the big NYC schools who don’t manage money very well.
This is why I’ve left NY, never to return. NY is hostile to new ideas and apparently Americans are too busy appointing blame and not making the connections to care about what’s actually causing economic malaise.
Just look to places like New York, Illinois, and Michigan and it’s not jobs going overseas (which is a misnomer anyway) it’s the unfair tax practices by both local and state governments. We live in VA and I would never get a house here because the taxes would eat us alive.
Dems are bad news for taxes. Just because Obummer says he won’t tax “95%” of people (even though a 1/3 don’t even pay taxes) doesn’t mean he’ll keep that promise. Yet, like Clinton, he’ll be forgiven because of his charm and charisma. Many of us common sense, former blue state residents just know better. Taxes don’t work. They’re bad and they’ll get worse. They always do, especially in recessions.
This thing has just gotten even more bizarre:
Turns out Joe “The Plumber”:
Doesn’t have a plumber’s license
Owes back taxes
Doesn’t make $250 per year
Will not endorse John McCain
Is not trying to buy his company
Turns out this guy is a complete fraud. So now it makes sense; he’s as full of it as all of you people.
racist.
I don’t know what debate you were watching Donut, Obama was sweating quite a bit (even though they installed air conditioning over the candidates so they wouldn’t sweat). He looked nervous and uncomfortable and he was sweating bullets. Obama reminded me of someone who wasn’t being totally honest. Imagine that!