Liveblogging the last presidential debate of 2008
It begins at 9pm Eastern.
Liberal Beltway fixture Bob Schieffer moderates. I noted in 2004 that he asked a question about immigration during one of the 2004 debates. Wouldn’t it be novel if the subject finally came up tonight? Not that the La Raza twins would differ much. I’m not the only one who wants to hear some border talk. The Plumber Joe Wurzelbach mentioned it, too.
Got your ACORN martinis, ready?
Drinking game buzz words:
GREED.
GREEDY.
RESCUE.
EARMARKS.
TAX CREDITS.
WALL STREET.
MAIN STREET.
HEALTH CARE.
JUDGEMENT.
BUSH. BUSH. BUSH.
BIPARTISAN.
CLIMATE CHANGE.
Commenter Jencab: “You forgot…”
UUUHHHH
MY FRIENDS
ACROSS THE AISLE
WHEELS OF THE STRAIGHT TALK EXPRESS
I AGREE
MIDDLE CLASS
9:02pm Eastern. Schieffer starts right off the bad with the Dow plunge today. Why is your plan better than his?
McCain: Americans are hurting and they’re angry. Their innocent victims of GREED and WALL STREET.
Drink, drink, drink up.
McCain: They are hurting and they’re angry.
Ok, we get it.
Now, he’s promoting home ownership and preservation at any cost. Pitches his rotten individual mortgage rescue plan. “Put home owners first.”
McCain criticizes Paulson for “not making it their first priority.”
Only superficial mention of Fannie/Freddie.
I repeat what I said earlier today: Hey, chumps: Why are you still paying your mortgages?
Obama: RESCUE package for the MIDDLE CLASS.
My glass is half-empty already.
Obama: TAX CREDIT.
Gulp again.
Obama: Sen. McCain, I AGREE with helping homeowners.
Glass is empty.
McCain brings up The Plumber: Joe, I wanna tell ya. I want to keep your taxes low, affordable health care, I will not stand for tax increases on small business income. What you want to do to Joe the plumber is…have them not live the American Dream.
Obama brings up his 95 percent tax cut fantasy.
McCain blasts Obama for his “spread the wealth around” ideology. I want Joe the Plumber to spread the wealth around. Why would you want to increase anyone’s taxes right now? I’m not going to do that in my administration.
Obama invokes his friend, billionaire Warren Buffett in response.
Not such a bright move there, Barry.
We’re talking about a plumber and Obama leans on one of the richest men in the world as a crutch?
McCain: We need to cut people’s taxes, create jobs, not “spread the wealth around.”
Good. He drove that nail.
9:14pm Eastern. Schieffer asks what specific programs the candidates would cut.
Obama has been blabbing for two minutes without naming anything specific. Blahblahblahblah. He’s talking about making “investments” to prevent diseases.
He STILL hasn’t mentioned a single program.
9:16pm Eastern. McCain should have nailed Obama immediately for failing to name a single program he would cut, but he wants to return to the home ownership/prevention crap. Increasing home values. Blahblahblah. McCain segues into energy independence.
Finally, an answer.
McCain: What would I cut? Across-the-board spending freeze. Some people say it’s a hatchet. I’ll do the hatchet and then the scalpel. Would cut marketing assistance, ethanol subsidies, I know how to save billions.
Grab your drinks: McCain mentions EARMARKS.
9:21pm Eastern. McCain repeats his line that Americans are angry. Pledges to balance the budget in four years. You have to tell me one time when you’ve stood up to the leaders of your party.
Obama: Cites tort reform, charter schools. He slips in a reference to Fox News agreeing with him.
Obama moves to his BUSH-McCain talking points.
McCain: Elaborates on his opposition to Bush administration. I’ve got the scars to prove it. Cites CLIMATE CHANGE. Your record of independence isn’t very convincing.
Schieffer moves to the tone of the campaign. Obama says “erratic,” “losing his bearings, etc.” McCain says “lie,” “palling around with terrorists,” etc. “Are you each willing to say to each other’s face what you’ve said in ads.”
McCain goes first. “It’s gotten tough and I regret some of it.” Blames Obama for not accepting Town Hall proposals. McCain calls out John Lewis for comparing him to George Wallace and calls out Obama for not repudiating him. Very unfair and totally inappropriate. We will run a truthful campaign. A tough campaign. Obama has spent more on negative ads than any campaign in history. He said he would take public financing if I did. He didn’t keep his word. You didn’t tell the American people the truth.
Obama: We expect presidential campaigns to be tough. Whines that McCain’s ads were 100 percent negative and says people don’t want to hear about their hurt feelings. Plays the distraction card.
Obama will not repudiate John Lewis’s remarks, then says “politics as usual” is no longer acceptable.
McCain attacks Obama’s health care and immigration ads. Invokes Joe the Plumber again.
Obama smirks.
McCain: I did not hear repudiation of Congressman Lewis’s remarks.
Obama whines about the purported catcalls at the Palin rallies and rationalizes Lewis’s remarks. Whines about the “palling around with terrorists” jibe. It’s an opening to talk about Ayers…but McCain’s not biting for whatever reason.
9:33pm Eastern. McCain defends the people who attend his rallies.
KNOCK ME OVER WITH A FEATHER. He’s defending the base. “I’m not going to stand for that!”
You just scored some points, McCain.
FINALLY!
McCain: I’ve seen t-shirts that are unacceptable. Things yelled at your rallies.
FINALLY! Rejecting the “mob narrative.”
9:35pm Eastern. McCain ate his Wheaties. He mentions old, washed-up terrorist Ayers and Acorn – destroying the fabric of our nation.
Obama gives his talking points about Ayers (I was eight years old) and ACORN (I represented them in a lawsuit with the Justice Department).
McCain better set the record straight.
9:38pm Eastern. McCain says he launched his political campaign in Ayers’ living room. Mentions Ayers’ 2001 regret that he hadn’t bombed more.
Well, was that enough, folks? What do you think?
I think it’s the best we can expect McCain to have done.
The McCain campaign e-mails the talking points McCain failed to recite…
ACORN’s Political Action Committee Endorsed Barack Obama For President. “[A]CORN’s political action committee endorsed Barack Obama for President. … The endorsement reflects a belief that Obama – who worked as a community organizer on the South Side of Chicago – understands that change must come from the ground-up, as part of a working coalition, rather than from position papers.” (Katrina Vanden Heuvel, Op-Ed, “ACORN: Obama Gets It,” The Nation, 2/23/08)
Barack Obama’s Campaign “Paid More Than $800,000″ To ACORN For Get-Out-The Vote Efforts; The Campaign Originally “Misrepresented” The Group’s Work To The FEC. “U.S. Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential campaign paid more than $800,000 to an offshoot of the liberal Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now for services the Democrat’s campaign says it mistakenly misrepresented in federal reports. An Obama spokesman said Federal Election Commission reports would be amended to show Citizens Services Inc. — a subsidiary of ACORN — worked in ‘get-out-the-vote’ projects, instead of activities such as polling, advance work and staging major events as stated in FEC finance reports filed during the primary.” (David M. Brown, “Obama To Amend Report On $800,000 In Spending,” Pittsburgh Tribune Review, 8/22/08)
Barack Obama Directed Project Vote And Later Taught Classes For “Future Leaders Identified By ACORN And The Centers For New Horizons.” “In 1992 Obama took time off to direct Project Vote, the most successful grass-roots voter-registration campaign in recent city history. Credited with helping elect Carol Moseley-Braun to the U.S. Senate, the registration drive, aimed primarily at African-Americans, added an estimated 125,000 voters to the voter rolls–even more than were registered during Harold Washington’s mayoral campaigns. ‘It’s a power thing,’ said the brochures and radio commercials. … Obama continues his organizing work largely through classes for future leaders identified by ACORN and the Centers for New Horizons on the south side.” (Hank De Zutter, Op-Ed, “What Makes Obama Run?” Chicago Reader, 12/8/95)
· In 1992, Barack Obama Was Hired By ACORN To Run A Voter Registration Effort. “Indeed, Mr. Obama has extensive connections with the granddaddy of activist groups, Acorn (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now), which has gotten millions in government grants for its low-income housing programs. In 1992, Acorn hired Mr. Obama to run a voter registration effort. He later became a trainer for the group, as well as its lawyer in election law cases. Acorn’s political arm has endorsed Mr. Obama while its ‘voter education’ arm has pledged to spend $35 million to register people this fall — despite a history of vote fraud scandals that have led to guilty pleas by many Acorn employees.” (John Fund, “Obama’s Liberal Shock Troops,” The Wall Street Journal, 7/12/08)
Barack Obama Was Part Of Team Of Lawyers Who Represented ACORN In A Suit Against The State Of Illinois. “Obama was part of a team of attorneys who represented the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) in a lawsuit against the state of Illinois in 1995 for failing to implement a federal law designed to make it easier for the poor and others to register as voters.” (Mike Robinson, “Obama Got Start In Civil Rights Practice,” The Associated Press, 2/20/07)
ACORN Received Grants From The Woods Fund When Barack Obama Served on The Board Of Directors
· The Chicago ACORN Received Grants Of $45,000 (2000), $30,000 (2001), $45,000 (2001), $30,000 (2002), And $40,000 (2002) From The Woods Fund. (Donors Forum Website, ifs.donorsforum.org, Accessed 6/10/08)
· NOTE: From 1993 To 2002, Barack Obama Served On The Board Of Directors For The Woods Fund. (Tim Novak and Fran Spielman, “Obama Helped Ex-Boss Get $1 Mil. From Charity,” Chicago Sun-Times, 11/29/07)
9:41pm Eastern. Schieffer asks each candidate why their vp candidate would be a better prez than the other’s vp candidate.
Obama gives obligatory Joe is Great spiel with requisite Violence Against Women Act reference and is now talking about “INVESTING” again. Make it a drinking word.
McCain: Sarah Palin is a reformer. She understands families with special needs. She’s ignited our party and people who have never been involved in the political process.
Reader Dustin writes that McCain should have said “Not only do I think Palin would be better than Biden, I believe she’d be better and more experienced than Barack Obama.”
Schieffer asks Obama if Palin is qualified. “That will be up to the American people to decide,” then throws in a jab at McCain on special needs. Says it will take more spending.
McCain: Biden’s qualified in many respects, but has been wrong on foreign policy that’s supposed to be his strength. Cockamamie idea of dividing Iraq in three parts. Wrong about the first Gulf War. National security.
Then McCain jabs Obama back over relying on new spending as solution to everything.
9:47pm Eastern. CLIMATE CHANGE!
Obama is especially smirky tonight, isn’t he?
9:52pm Eastern. McCain dings Obama for opposing Colombia free trade agreement. “Obama, who’s never traveled south of our border…”
McCain slips in Obama’s tea-with-dictators stance. Obama smirks and snorts.
9:59pm Eastern. Health care. McCain is really using Joe the Plumber to great effect. Invokes him again and asks what fine Obama would impose on him if he doesn’t meet Obama’s mandates.
McCain uses a bogus Michael Moore statistic: See the 47 million uninsured lie.
10:04pm Eastern. McCain challenges Obama’s big government policies and mistakenly calls Obama “Sen. Government.”
Yeah, that works.
10:08pm Eastern. Schieffer throws in a SCOTUS question. McCain and Obama agree they wouldn’t apply a litmus test. Obama invokes Roe v. Wade.
McCain better bring up Obama’s lies about his born-alive survivors bill vote.
10:11pm Eastern. YES! He’s finally making up for all those missed opportunities. McCain nails Obama for his extreme, pro-abortion votes. “That’s his record. He voted in direct contradiction to the feelings of mainstream America.”
Obama spins. Filibusters.
McCain rejoinder to Obama — nails him on disingenuous “health of the mother” language/loopholes. Mentions that he and Cindy are adoptive parents, but that doesn’t mean we won’t continue to stand for the rights of the unborn.
Very eloquent. Good job, McCain. (See, who says I can’t say nice things about Mac?)
10:16pm Eastern. Last question is on education.
I’m tuning out Obama. He just said “INVEST” for the 998th time tonight. Blahblah.
McCain calls education the civil rights issue of the 21st century. Talks about choice, parental empowerment. Give parents the same choice that the Obamas have and Cindy and I have to send their kids to good schools. Throwing money is not the answer to the problem. You will find that some of the worst public school districts get the most money.
BINGO.
10:21pm Eastern. Schieffer asks if there should be increased federal role in education. Obama says yes despite the failure of No Child Left Behind. Pay teachers more, fund early childhood education. I AGREE with McCain on charter schools, says Obama. Opposes vouchers.
McCain dings Obama again for exercising his own school choice, but not allowing other parents to do the same.
Obama called on people to put down their video games, but as a McCain staffer e-mails: “But he advertises on them? Disingenuousness.”
Obama tries to rationalize his opposition to vouchers.
McCain sums it up for him: “So because there aren’t enough vouchers we shouldn’t have any even if they work. Got it.”
Obama claims that DC superintendent only supports charter schools, not vouchers. McCain corrects him. Obama sticks to his claim.
Obama is wrong. McCain is right. More here.
Obama: Out-of-touch with minority families demanding choice in D.C.
Debate wrap-up here.
***
11:09pm Eastern Hillary is on Fox News (!) praising Obama through gritted teeth. She says that Joe the Plumber will be “appreciably more positively impacted” by Obama’s policies vs. McCain’s.
“Appreciably more positively impacted?”
And they call Sarah Palin inarticulate…
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BHO is on the defense all night. He has lost this debate. It’s irretrievably McCain’s, praise God.
Constitutional Law Scholar/Professor
MY A$$!!!
It is ridiculous in the extreme to hear him equate the right to abortion to the right to free speech.
LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR
He did not refute the present votes.
But abortion is above his paygrade.
time’s up.
….common ground….did I just hear McCain snort?
What. A. LIAR.
Sorry Barry, facts are facts. He is in favor of infanticide.
Lies, lies, lies – Obama’s words are out there.
He helped write that bill. The law already on the books wasn’t working, you idiot.
Abortionists don’t give a crap about the Hippocratic oath.
LIES! Obama supports the FReedom of Choice Act – unrestricted, taxpayer funded abortion for any reason, at any stage in pregnancy.
“Health exceptions” include women worried about playing sports and going to rock concerts.
There is no common ground – you either support the wholesale murder of infants or you don’t.
“Sexuality is sacred” – the Catholic Church has been saying that for 2,000 years.
“No body’s pro-abortion” – ha. Has he seen NARAL.
provide appropriate education to our
kindergartenersyouth.eloquence= sweet lies
Obama is flatlining among men on CNN, has been all night.
Call him on the lies McCain!
What a weenie. birth control. too little too late. f#$%%
Obama should catch on fire soon from all the lies he has told.
HA – NOBODY is pro-abortion???
Tell that to Planned Parenthood!
Barry is lying out of both sides of his mouth right now on the Born Alive Act.
God is in control…
Ok, somebody ‘splain this to me. If sexuality is “sacred” as Obama says, then how can we have sex education in our schools like he wants? He’s talking out of his a$$.
The democrats are for the first time this year pro alternative abortion tactics….first time, huh? That is creepy.
BO says nobody’s pro-abortion. Is he insane??
Love that McCain brought up “health of the mother” and the ridiculous lengths to which it has been stretched. Good on ya, John!
Congratulations on the birth of your new burden!
—Baracky
Hippocratic oath contains- I will give NO abortive remedy.
At least it used to.
Not only did Obama say he would make partial birth legal but his words again betray him. When he says he would be against partial birth as long as there is protection for the mother’s health makes it totally legal with Dr. that could a cold as a good reason.
GOOD set-up Shiefer. more $$$ != better education
Obama flounders, mod. cuts off.
Get the Teachers unions and the consultants out of the public school system.
…this has more to do with my old buddy bill ayers
All points considered, ol’ Schieffer’s not doing bad. Opinions?
What can we do? 1) Get rid of teachers’ union, 2) school choice.
I am shocked but Schieffer has been much more even handed than all of the other moderators.
Hey john, explain how education has tanked because of the liberal agenda being pushed in schools.
Obama shoveling more snow than you’d see at a Todd Palin Snow Machine race …
I also think there is probably a lot of Moose and Reindeer droppings in that snow …
Here is the answer;
Get Government out of schools, public schools that is…!
Education…O’s “strength”…Mav needs to hit him with Annenburg Challenge in Chicago…
Wait…we weren’t the top military power of the world during the end of the Great Depression. What is this analogy.. Declining economy, declining military?
Yeah we spend more on education but it is really indcctrination!
More discipline in the schools would help kids learn and their parents should support it.
Expensive teachers do not teach better
I understand the “f-bombs”, having to listen to lie after lie after lie. I’m heartened to learn that men are flat-lining BHO on CNN. Finally…finally…he’s showing that he is an empty suit who talks a good game but says very little, and that what he does say is, as McCain’s ads say: “Too Risky for America”.
As a teacher, it is easy to see that we should hold students responsible for everything they do, not allow them to skate by so they will have an artificially high self esteem.
Now he’s dissing the Military. No early childhood education, school vouchers!|
“Early Childhood Education”=Day Care
More money for the teacher’s unions! yay, that will fix it.
Education is now a national defense issue, what about the border fence, or funding for the troops. Barry wants to throw more money at the failed public school system.
this guy Odummy is full of crap! oh, did i mention his a liar also…but he is a liberal..nevermind.
Yep.. he said it.. we need an army to indoctrinate our children.. what a dip you know what.
I believe in choice. Choice for the baby! The woman who is pregnant clearly had choices. Perhaps she made a mistake, but she made a choice. What about the choice of the baby?
Education is now a national defense issue, what about the border fence, or funding for the troops? Barry wants to throw more money at the failed public school system.
Where is the common ground on murdering babies? Obama is pathetic.
Education belongs to the states. This is not in the Constitution.
I paid for college myself, and it’s all paid off. You know how BO? I WORKED FOR IT. IDIOT.
what is obama paying this moderator? interruption after interruption. does anyone have a tally on time given to obama vs time given to mccain. it is not even 2:1; more like 4:1.
NOT new teachers! INDOCTRINATORS!!! They need to be able to INDOCTRINATE our children!
hmmm … didn’t that just sound like Obama promoting a return to the military draft? …
Okay, the debate is almost through, my back is hurting from sitting here all night. Good Night all and God Bless America.
Stop free lunch and fully enforce discipline. Education is not a constitutional right. It is a privilege. Those that don’t appreciate schools, then get out.
oh oh..he said math and science is the civil rights issue of the 21st century….the minorities will have a field day with that one.
Education – man, BO says everything will cost more!
McCain – choice and competition – yesss!!!!
Take the gooberment out of the school system. Everything they run sucks
Maybe we are getting less bang for our buck because some teachers are indoctrinating and not educating.
Scheiffer is much better than Brokjaw.
School Choice YEAH!
Where’s the Annenberg $$$$ Hussein?
Thinking….what racist things will the far left liberal at work see McCain did this time??? Last time it was, he didn’t look at Obama, he called him “the One” and didn’t shake his hand. Hmmm…maybe McCain is racist for not just droping out of the race…
Work hard to go to school? Be a good little brownshirt for Obo?
Obama’s answer to education: Peace Corp
Parents would be more involved if they weren’t being chased out by the NEA.
HOMESCHOOLING rocks.
Learn to be a
CommunityCommunist Organizer and be subsidized by Barry!
‘Standards’, ‘accountability’. Careful, BO you’ll lose some teacher union votes.
…Tell the kids to find a way to go through school without taking on so much damn debt. Is Obama saying Student Loans are ,gasp,predatory lending!
I agree with dropping unions….get rid of my leftist, socialist coworkers. They are so hard to reason with these days.
night tropicalwave
Bill Ayers for Secretary of Education and it does take a village of idiots to raise a child.
i think jmac knocked bob back on his heels from the start and he never recovered….so much the better for J
Service for education? This is right out of Mao’s Red Book!!!!
OK, what? Barry says a $4k tuition credit in exchange for volunteer service, “be it in the military or what have you”.
Uh, ok, Einstein. Plus, we’ve been watching, and we know that you are for involuntary volunteering, a typical liberal oxymoron!
I smell bailout for students with loans!!
Ugh! NO STUDENT LOANS JOHN!
My eduational solution is to bring back nuns and paddles!!!
Teachers would stay in the profession if the government didn’t control them.
Seems Congress hasn’t figured this out.
Obama’s answer.. Throw more money at it.
Mo’ Money Mo’ Money Mo’ Money and BUSH!!!
Woo Hoo!!
in the days running up to the election..expect them to continue to paint the repubs and mccain as racist..it’s goign to start spiraling out of control.
Education is a LOCAL issue. Kill the Dept. of Ed.
Give the teachers the ability to control kids in the classroom. That is one of the main complaints I hear teachers complain about. They are hampered.
Let me guess, Obama is in favor of more government in the school system. What a shock, I’m shocked.
I agree. Bob is staying squarely in the middle. A true moderator.
How about this for an idea … do well in school and EARN a SCHOLARSHIP! Oh, sorry, I forgot, that would probably be racist.
Now Obama is telling us how to raise our kids.
No thanks. I’ll decide when to do that. I don’t need your help making decisions about when to turn off the tv, how much air should be in my tires, or how much to eat. I can handle it. Promise.
ok John … nail him on his Chicago education program … promoting liberal radicalism was more important than reading and math … P L E A S E ! ! !
You nailed it, Christine!
DISCIPLINE!
THrowing money at the problem doesn’t solve it. Look at DC
For those playing the drinking game, I’m wondering how many of you are able to see your keyboards to type the right keys right now.
LOL
“Special funding for schools”… You had 8 years of Clinton, and four years of Bush for that.
A infant is humane therefore it becomes murder.
The Federal Government should stay OUT of local school education.
The Dems made NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND another unfunded mandate IIRC.
Very eloquent. Good job, McCain. (See, who says I can’t say nice things about Mac?)
I do.. I do.. lol
Eliminate the teacher’s union and public schools and privatize.
:puts shving cream in Rogue’s hand and tickles his nose:
BWAHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHA
The grode got spanked.
g’night tropicalwave