Liveblogging the last presidential debate of 2008
It begins at 9pm Eastern.
Liberal Beltway fixture Bob Schieffer moderates. I noted in 2004 that he asked a question about immigration during one of the 2004 debates. Wouldn’t it be novel if the subject finally came up tonight? Not that the La Raza twins would differ much. I’m not the only one who wants to hear some border talk. The Plumber Joe Wurzelbach mentioned it, too.
Got your ACORN martinis, ready?
Drinking game buzz words:
GREED.
GREEDY.
RESCUE.
EARMARKS.
TAX CREDITS.
WALL STREET.
MAIN STREET.
HEALTH CARE.
JUDGEMENT.
BUSH. BUSH. BUSH.
BIPARTISAN.
CLIMATE CHANGE.
Commenter Jencab: “You forgot…”
UUUHHHH
MY FRIENDS
ACROSS THE AISLE
WHEELS OF THE STRAIGHT TALK EXPRESS
I AGREE
MIDDLE CLASS
9:02pm Eastern. Schieffer starts right off the bad with the Dow plunge today. Why is your plan better than his?
McCain: Americans are hurting and they’re angry. Their innocent victims of GREED and WALL STREET.
Drink, drink, drink up.
McCain: They are hurting and they’re angry.
Ok, we get it.
Now, he’s promoting home ownership and preservation at any cost. Pitches his rotten individual mortgage rescue plan. “Put home owners first.”
McCain criticizes Paulson for “not making it their first priority.”
Only superficial mention of Fannie/Freddie.
I repeat what I said earlier today: Hey, chumps: Why are you still paying your mortgages?
Obama: RESCUE package for the MIDDLE CLASS.
My glass is half-empty already.
Obama: TAX CREDIT.
Gulp again.
Obama: Sen. McCain, I AGREE with helping homeowners.
Glass is empty.
McCain brings up The Plumber: Joe, I wanna tell ya. I want to keep your taxes low, affordable health care, I will not stand for tax increases on small business income. What you want to do to Joe the plumber is…have them not live the American Dream.
Obama brings up his 95 percent tax cut fantasy.
McCain blasts Obama for his “spread the wealth around” ideology. I want Joe the Plumber to spread the wealth around. Why would you want to increase anyone’s taxes right now? I’m not going to do that in my administration.
Obama invokes his friend, billionaire Warren Buffett in response.
Not such a bright move there, Barry.
We’re talking about a plumber and Obama leans on one of the richest men in the world as a crutch?
McCain: We need to cut people’s taxes, create jobs, not “spread the wealth around.”
Good. He drove that nail.
9:14pm Eastern. Schieffer asks what specific programs the candidates would cut.
Obama has been blabbing for two minutes without naming anything specific. Blahblahblahblah. He’s talking about making “investments” to prevent diseases.
He STILL hasn’t mentioned a single program.
9:16pm Eastern. McCain should have nailed Obama immediately for failing to name a single program he would cut, but he wants to return to the home ownership/prevention crap. Increasing home values. Blahblahblah. McCain segues into energy independence.
Finally, an answer.
McCain: What would I cut? Across-the-board spending freeze. Some people say it’s a hatchet. I’ll do the hatchet and then the scalpel. Would cut marketing assistance, ethanol subsidies, I know how to save billions.
Grab your drinks: McCain mentions EARMARKS.
9:21pm Eastern. McCain repeats his line that Americans are angry. Pledges to balance the budget in four years. You have to tell me one time when you’ve stood up to the leaders of your party.
Obama: Cites tort reform, charter schools. He slips in a reference to Fox News agreeing with him.
Obama moves to his BUSH-McCain talking points.
McCain: Elaborates on his opposition to Bush administration. I’ve got the scars to prove it. Cites CLIMATE CHANGE. Your record of independence isn’t very convincing.
Schieffer moves to the tone of the campaign. Obama says “erratic,” “losing his bearings, etc.” McCain says “lie,” “palling around with terrorists,” etc. “Are you each willing to say to each other’s face what you’ve said in ads.”
McCain goes first. “It’s gotten tough and I regret some of it.” Blames Obama for not accepting Town Hall proposals. McCain calls out John Lewis for comparing him to George Wallace and calls out Obama for not repudiating him. Very unfair and totally inappropriate. We will run a truthful campaign. A tough campaign. Obama has spent more on negative ads than any campaign in history. He said he would take public financing if I did. He didn’t keep his word. You didn’t tell the American people the truth.
Obama: We expect presidential campaigns to be tough. Whines that McCain’s ads were 100 percent negative and says people don’t want to hear about their hurt feelings. Plays the distraction card.
Obama will not repudiate John Lewis’s remarks, then says “politics as usual” is no longer acceptable.
McCain attacks Obama’s health care and immigration ads. Invokes Joe the Plumber again.
Obama smirks.
McCain: I did not hear repudiation of Congressman Lewis’s remarks.
Obama whines about the purported catcalls at the Palin rallies and rationalizes Lewis’s remarks. Whines about the “palling around with terrorists” jibe. It’s an opening to talk about Ayers…but McCain’s not biting for whatever reason.
9:33pm Eastern. McCain defends the people who attend his rallies.
KNOCK ME OVER WITH A FEATHER. He’s defending the base. “I’m not going to stand for that!”
You just scored some points, McCain.
FINALLY!
McCain: I’ve seen t-shirts that are unacceptable. Things yelled at your rallies.
FINALLY! Rejecting the “mob narrative.”
9:35pm Eastern. McCain ate his Wheaties. He mentions old, washed-up terrorist Ayers and Acorn – destroying the fabric of our nation.
Obama gives his talking points about Ayers (I was eight years old) and ACORN (I represented them in a lawsuit with the Justice Department).
McCain better set the record straight.
9:38pm Eastern. McCain says he launched his political campaign in Ayers’ living room. Mentions Ayers’ 2001 regret that he hadn’t bombed more.
Well, was that enough, folks? What do you think?
I think it’s the best we can expect McCain to have done.
The McCain campaign e-mails the talking points McCain failed to recite…
ACORN’s Political Action Committee Endorsed Barack Obama For President. “[A]CORN’s political action committee endorsed Barack Obama for President. … The endorsement reflects a belief that Obama – who worked as a community organizer on the South Side of Chicago – understands that change must come from the ground-up, as part of a working coalition, rather than from position papers.” (Katrina Vanden Heuvel, Op-Ed, “ACORN: Obama Gets It,” The Nation, 2/23/08)
Barack Obama’s Campaign “Paid More Than $800,000″ To ACORN For Get-Out-The Vote Efforts; The Campaign Originally “Misrepresented” The Group’s Work To The FEC. “U.S. Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential campaign paid more than $800,000 to an offshoot of the liberal Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now for services the Democrat’s campaign says it mistakenly misrepresented in federal reports. An Obama spokesman said Federal Election Commission reports would be amended to show Citizens Services Inc. — a subsidiary of ACORN — worked in ‘get-out-the-vote’ projects, instead of activities such as polling, advance work and staging major events as stated in FEC finance reports filed during the primary.” (David M. Brown, “Obama To Amend Report On $800,000 In Spending,” Pittsburgh Tribune Review, 8/22/08)
Barack Obama Directed Project Vote And Later Taught Classes For “Future Leaders Identified By ACORN And The Centers For New Horizons.” “In 1992 Obama took time off to direct Project Vote, the most successful grass-roots voter-registration campaign in recent city history. Credited with helping elect Carol Moseley-Braun to the U.S. Senate, the registration drive, aimed primarily at African-Americans, added an estimated 125,000 voters to the voter rolls–even more than were registered during Harold Washington’s mayoral campaigns. ‘It’s a power thing,’ said the brochures and radio commercials. … Obama continues his organizing work largely through classes for future leaders identified by ACORN and the Centers for New Horizons on the south side.” (Hank De Zutter, Op-Ed, “What Makes Obama Run?” Chicago Reader, 12/8/95)
· In 1992, Barack Obama Was Hired By ACORN To Run A Voter Registration Effort. “Indeed, Mr. Obama has extensive connections with the granddaddy of activist groups, Acorn (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now), which has gotten millions in government grants for its low-income housing programs. In 1992, Acorn hired Mr. Obama to run a voter registration effort. He later became a trainer for the group, as well as its lawyer in election law cases. Acorn’s political arm has endorsed Mr. Obama while its ‘voter education’ arm has pledged to spend $35 million to register people this fall — despite a history of vote fraud scandals that have led to guilty pleas by many Acorn employees.” (John Fund, “Obama’s Liberal Shock Troops,” The Wall Street Journal, 7/12/08)
Barack Obama Was Part Of Team Of Lawyers Who Represented ACORN In A Suit Against The State Of Illinois. “Obama was part of a team of attorneys who represented the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) in a lawsuit against the state of Illinois in 1995 for failing to implement a federal law designed to make it easier for the poor and others to register as voters.” (Mike Robinson, “Obama Got Start In Civil Rights Practice,” The Associated Press, 2/20/07)
ACORN Received Grants From The Woods Fund When Barack Obama Served on The Board Of Directors
· The Chicago ACORN Received Grants Of $45,000 (2000), $30,000 (2001), $45,000 (2001), $30,000 (2002), And $40,000 (2002) From The Woods Fund. (Donors Forum Website, ifs.donorsforum.org, Accessed 6/10/08)
· NOTE: From 1993 To 2002, Barack Obama Served On The Board Of Directors For The Woods Fund. (Tim Novak and Fran Spielman, “Obama Helped Ex-Boss Get $1 Mil. From Charity,” Chicago Sun-Times, 11/29/07)
9:41pm Eastern. Schieffer asks each candidate why their vp candidate would be a better prez than the other’s vp candidate.
Obama gives obligatory Joe is Great spiel with requisite Violence Against Women Act reference and is now talking about “INVESTING” again. Make it a drinking word.
McCain: Sarah Palin is a reformer. She understands families with special needs. She’s ignited our party and people who have never been involved in the political process.
Reader Dustin writes that McCain should have said “Not only do I think Palin would be better than Biden, I believe she’d be better and more experienced than Barack Obama.”
Schieffer asks Obama if Palin is qualified. “That will be up to the American people to decide,” then throws in a jab at McCain on special needs. Says it will take more spending.
McCain: Biden’s qualified in many respects, but has been wrong on foreign policy that’s supposed to be his strength. Cockamamie idea of dividing Iraq in three parts. Wrong about the first Gulf War. National security.
Then McCain jabs Obama back over relying on new spending as solution to everything.
9:47pm Eastern. CLIMATE CHANGE!
Obama is especially smirky tonight, isn’t he?
9:52pm Eastern. McCain dings Obama for opposing Colombia free trade agreement. “Obama, who’s never traveled south of our border…”
McCain slips in Obama’s tea-with-dictators stance. Obama smirks and snorts.
9:59pm Eastern. Health care. McCain is really using Joe the Plumber to great effect. Invokes him again and asks what fine Obama would impose on him if he doesn’t meet Obama’s mandates.
McCain uses a bogus Michael Moore statistic: See the 47 million uninsured lie.
10:04pm Eastern. McCain challenges Obama’s big government policies and mistakenly calls Obama “Sen. Government.”
Yeah, that works.
10:08pm Eastern. Schieffer throws in a SCOTUS question. McCain and Obama agree they wouldn’t apply a litmus test. Obama invokes Roe v. Wade.
McCain better bring up Obama’s lies about his born-alive survivors bill vote.
10:11pm Eastern. YES! He’s finally making up for all those missed opportunities. McCain nails Obama for his extreme, pro-abortion votes. “That’s his record. He voted in direct contradiction to the feelings of mainstream America.”
Obama spins. Filibusters.
McCain rejoinder to Obama — nails him on disingenuous “health of the mother” language/loopholes. Mentions that he and Cindy are adoptive parents, but that doesn’t mean we won’t continue to stand for the rights of the unborn.
Very eloquent. Good job, McCain. (See, who says I can’t say nice things about Mac?)
10:16pm Eastern. Last question is on education.
I’m tuning out Obama. He just said “INVEST” for the 998th time tonight. Blahblah.
McCain calls education the civil rights issue of the 21st century. Talks about choice, parental empowerment. Give parents the same choice that the Obamas have and Cindy and I have to send their kids to good schools. Throwing money is not the answer to the problem. You will find that some of the worst public school districts get the most money.
BINGO.
10:21pm Eastern. Schieffer asks if there should be increased federal role in education. Obama says yes despite the failure of No Child Left Behind. Pay teachers more, fund early childhood education. I AGREE with McCain on charter schools, says Obama. Opposes vouchers.
McCain dings Obama again for exercising his own school choice, but not allowing other parents to do the same.
Obama called on people to put down their video games, but as a McCain staffer e-mails: “But he advertises on them? Disingenuousness.”
Obama tries to rationalize his opposition to vouchers.
McCain sums it up for him: “So because there aren’t enough vouchers we shouldn’t have any even if they work. Got it.”
Obama claims that DC superintendent only supports charter schools, not vouchers. McCain corrects him. Obama sticks to his claim.
Obama is wrong. McCain is right. More here.
Obama: Out-of-touch with minority families demanding choice in D.C.
Debate wrap-up here.
***
11:09pm Eastern Hillary is on Fox News (!) praising Obama through gritted teeth. She says that Joe the Plumber will be “appreciably more positively impacted” by Obama’s policies vs. McCain’s.
“Appreciably more positively impacted?”
And they call Sarah Palin inarticulate…
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nary a remark about the albatross around the next of America…ILLEGAL ALIENS
It’s over….good thing cause I’m too drunk to listen any more!
I HAVE not invited Obama into my house. UGH!
FREE HEALTH non-CARE! FREE COLLEGE non-EDUCATION!
Vote Obama and HOPE you have some CHANGE left in your pocket!
Barry, homey don’t play that game any more. Find a new tag.
Wow, Obama is 99.9% made up bulls***.
The grumpy old man exceeded my expectations tonight and the anointed one looked pretty damn weak using the same old tired talking points. I give the win to McCain!
Go vote now, it’ll make you feel big and strong.
lol
BHO, just what exactly is your entire public career? Please insert jokes/facts here:
But Obama never repudiated the Lewis statement.
Later Gator
McCain was all over Obama tonight!
I bet Michelle Obama can kick a football a long way.
McCain was on fire! I’m energized again. I hope he can keep this up!
“Good job! Good job!” said McCain to Obama at the end.
He shoulda ended with, “Can I call ya Barry?”
LIBS at PBS are giving it to Obama.
OT: You know Joe looks like that guy on the tv show The Shield.
Yes, Brit, that was a LIE from Obama about campaign finance. No mincing words about it.
Go Joe, cane the one even spit out a coherent sentence in less than 75 words?
Barack ran off stage, McCain is shaking hands!!
Just an FYI. I “lied” earlier. I was too low on margarita mix to go to Margaritaville, so I’ve been drinking screwdrivers all night.
But, I haven’t been drinking Absolut…some cheap stuff called Orlaff.
Take care, King, and everyone else.
Good job tonight.
I forgot to thank the star of the night: Joe the Plumber! Thanks Joe the Plumber!
McCain did really well.
‘Night all! Hope he pulled this one off!!
Hume is in the bag for Obama. MM, am I wrong?
Fox News has been promoting this debate for several days, claiming that Social Security would be a topic. Where was it? Or entitlements generally?
Mark Shields say there is an eerie coolness about Obama. HMMMM….
Obama sure brought it tonight,hmmm?
Juan is a closet liberal.
Juan is not in the closet.
I am so sick, of “Obama handled himself very well.” He lied through almost every answer. How is that acceptable? It sure is easy to debate when you don’t have to have any link to reality.
OK, I’m over at MSNBC. Maddow is excusing Obama’s inactivity, and calling McCain angry and “over-blinking”. “The line that will resonate after tonight’s debate is McCain’s comment that the life of the mother matters in abortion”.
Gregory is commenting that Obama’s “smiles” looked dismissive.
That was the most fun from not watching a debate I have ever had.
Peace – out
Soap
(Rogue Cheddar wakes up realizing he’s been lying in a pool of his own vomit)
Bartender! A little hair of the dog if you don’t mind! Here’s to John McCain, for showing up!
Bill Kristol is a joke. He’s not too thrilled, and says McCain basically didn’t do well.
I’m listening to the wonks, now, on FOX – what geeks!
Foxnews is all obama tonight. They are loving him.
Juan has a yacht on the river of Denial.
McCain failed! He wasn’t tough enough. Welcome to 4 years of misery!
Juan isn’t that bad, he just goes in the Democratic tank during election season.
I don’t know guys. McCain mopped the floor with Obama this time, but it’s too little, too late I’m afraid.
I think Obama is going to rope-a-dope himself right into the White House.
Juan Williams? Not in the closet.
Maddow is continuing to lie about McCain’s demeanor. “Exasperated”.
She makes Olbermann look reasonable.
Fox is turning on McCain. They can’t even acknowledge McCain’s victory.
McCain had a lot of zingers tonight! What?
What was Foxnews watching?
Fox wants to make sure its still on the air after Obama is sworn in.
Seriously, what was FOX watching??? If MSNBC hacks are being fairer than they are, I am stunned.
I came in about half way through and really enjoyed the part I saw. McCain really was on fire for once!
Boomer is checking off headset! See you all tomorrow.
Clarence Page, Chicago Tribune on PBS, gave cudos to both.
Perhaps because Mac and Bob are old enough to recieve it, heck, even Obama looked like he’s greying- was that dye?
Ha! Now Matthew is saying that McCain lost because of his position on abortion. It’s official: McaCain won.
.
Are you on crack? He is an all out lib nothing but a washed up NPR hack.
Not McaCain! Oh heavens. Not “macaca” again.
*giggle*
Ugh, the MSM responds predictably. The FoxNews chatter ought to put to rest the idea it’s the Republican/conservative network.
Obama was obviously flustered in my opinion. Nobody on Fox has commented.
Nightie night.
NOBODY watches MSNBC. NOBODY.
Can you believe this focus group?
What is Frank Lutz smoking? He called those few hands up for Obama a “clear majority”. WTF?
Ugh, anyone watching Frank Luntz? BAARRRF.
where the hell does this Luntz find these idiots?
For a Navy Fighter Jock, McCain was a dismal failure.
Terrible….:(
Now Andrea Mitchell is praising McCain. I’m running to hell to buy some ice cubes; be back in a sec….
People don’t seem to care that Obama is lying through his teeth and will literally say anything to get elected. Its Bill Clinton all over again.
No. I can’t believe it. It was very clear to me that McCain won tonight. NO DOUBT.
And NO, I’m not drunk.
CNN is saying McCain was better. I’m shocked
Obamessiah is going to save us! Ooooo
Yeah, I’m wondering that too myself.
Pundits over at CNBC are giving it to McCain.
Was it me or did about 1/3 of Luntz’s group think Obama won and thats a ‘clear majority’?
It NEVER has been a Republican/Conservative network. Its just not left leaning like the rest of the MSM.
Fox is probably trying to cover for the comment BO made early in the debate about Fox not giving him any positive press…you know, they have to seem ‘fair and balanced’…
Sometimes, I’d like to see debate survey dials that electrocute the pollsters.
Just think, In 4 years , polls,debates, and elections may be obsolete!
“And NO, I’m not drunk”.
Would you care to come to NJ and get drunk with me when Glowbama wins the election?
msnbc is going on and on about how calm and cool obama is and he narrowly won, that means mccain won. nice
No! I MUST be drunk.
am I in bazarro world or what
Well, I can speak for the drunken audience (OK, I’m just a little tipsy, not drunk). McCain mopped the floor with Obama.
I liked that: I’m not voting for greatest debater, I’m voting for President of the United States. McCain may not be the most articulate, but…
I’d probably be at an AA meeting if Obama wins.
What the FOX???i hope the liquor store isn’t closed yet…night all…i’ve really enjoyed your company…and i think mccain really did win this one.
I’d like to see that clown Maddow debate a conservative. She’d get her arse kicked.
Fox News seems to be leaning more and more to the left lately, like the last year or so.
Yeah, well, you can’t have minority kids getting out of PC-indoctrination in public schools.
They might turn out like Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Star Parker, or James T. Harris!
That would be bad. Where would the Democrats get their voter base from then?
Did this guy count the hands? Really…he only wants to talk to the Obama voters.
This was McCains last chance, and I do not think he brought it home. Welcome to hell. Now I am going to go throw up in anticipation of what Obama is going to do to us.
I think Luntz is lying about “undecideds”. Or maybe those who showed up are not really “undecideds”.
I can’t wait for 2012. This sucks.
CNBC is much more objective (like they’d have to work hard to do it) than MSNBC.
Sure enough, all the focus groups (undecideds of course) are calling it for Obama.
Well at least we won’t go down without a fight.
I am very suspicious of this focus group on Fox. I can’t believe that this debate swayed a majority of “undecided” voters TO Obama…
Amen to that, bro. Amen.
Now, if I analyze what Frank Luntz just illustrated, no one in that room said they came in supporting Obama. He then asked how many changed their votes and 4 said they had and for Obama. So that means 4 people in that room are voting for Obama, but that’s a clear majority? I must not be doing that new math thing right.
You know who the biggest dupe is tonight? It’s Frank Luntz! I’ll bet only 5% of those people were independent! What a crock of BS! The majority had their minds made up before they ever watched the darn debate.
As Yogi Berra said, “It ain’t over til its over!.” We still have two weeks to press the attack to stop the Obamanation.
McCain nailed the big spender in Obama’s policy. I hope people are paying attention.
CNN and FOX must have seen 2 different debates.
The Fox News body language expert said those that hardly blink when they speak and then over-blink after they speak are often lying. Someone should tell Alan Colmes and Wesley Clark to stop glaring at us when they speak.
I’m already here and yes.