For me to stay would be to tacitly approve of the hateful conversations that go on here. I also think the guy who posted #401 should be thrown off this site. Others like post #408, should be booted too. He was aproving #401 and adding insult to injury. What a sewer.

It is just my opinion, but it doesn’t matter what people say about you but how you respond that shows your character.

You can’t possibly have missed the overtly racist remarks posted over the weekend and much of yesterday by white people. That’s what I’m talking about, not an honest discussion of race.

Aloha (and happy) — I don’t know that you’ll even come back to this thread, but let me say that your response last night was really comforting to me. I was a little gobsmacked by some of the comments — including Misscheryl’s calling me a “hypocrite” for, I guess, contributing like anyone else here would, and for literally stating (I’m quoting here) “Carry on trying not to let your race matter” (which is ironic because, people here so often complain about African-Americans being obsessed with race; why would “carrying on like” race in general doesn’t matter be a bad thing?); flenser (who I’ve known was an idiot since our first encounter), who seized on learning my race to make his attacks based solely on that (e.g., implying that my grade school grades were somehow the result of affirmative action (?)); Bud thinking it was a good moment to comment on what he apparently considers a unique trait (the ability to write coherently in my first language); and more. I don’t expect emjem, for example, to recognize what you, apparently, did (she defends every conservative thought here — no matter how objectionable, vile or hateful — and when there is a civil discussion of race, goes off on long (rambling, disjunctive and incoherent) diatribes about how I (and MJ) are essentially stirring up trouble, regardless of how offensive the post was the may have provoked the in-kind response (although, I’m certain she couldn’t find nor cite a single post of mine that tosses any racial grenades). The point is, this site has done more to damage my idea (and solidify the most negative stereotypes) of conservatives than anything I’ve ever experienced. But occasionally, there are people like you here (and happy2behere, and Trollman, and Dimsomethingorother, for example) who stand up and prove to me that not every conservative thinks that way. You folks may get down and dirty politically, but that’s fine and I welcome it!; it’s when race is the only tool in the arsenal that blows me away. So in closing, thanks for just not going along. Because what I saw here yesterday was so ugly, and so hostile, and so foreign in my experience, that it really made me happy that I don’t have to experience those sorts of people or thoughts in my own, real, day-to-day life. It was fairly mindblowing — and not in a good way. Maybe I’m naive, but despite always having lived or gone to school in places that were overwhelmingly white (and I grew up in the south, mind you), I’ve never seen anything quite like it. It as genuinely sickening.

I think you’re missing an integral point in the discussion regarding race. …
I think there are blog contributors, like myself, who are genuinely furious that there are blacks who vote for Obummer based on race, that he’ll represent “them” but not the whole country.

I’m not missing this. I don’t think people should vote for someone based on race.

not the hate-filled and condescending one that MJ and nyk are currently having with those they have no tolerance for

You can’t possibly have missed the overtly racist remarks posted over the weekend and much of yesterday by white people. That’s what I’m talking about, not an honest discussion of race.

AlohaGuy said:
I’m conservative and I don’t get exposed to this where I live or among people I know either. I agree with Chap, this board has gone way down hill recently. Michelle, if you ever get a chance to read your own blog, I can’t believe you’d let some of these comments stand.

There are a couple of people here who might as well put on the sheets and get out the torches.

I’ve spent months telling people I know – “It’s not about race, people can’t be still worried about race” – and yet here are a few of you.

The rest of us are embarassed for you.

While I understand where you’re coming from I think you’re missing an integral point in the discussion regarding race. I think, yes, some people go over the line regarding the subject, yet, their observations reveal a truth that even members of the black community refuse to acknowledge.

I think there are blog contributors, like myself, who are genuinely furious that there are blacks who vote for Obummer based on race, that he’ll represent “them” but not the whole country. There are people who think it disgraceful that blacks get breaks in life and no one can call them out on it.

While I understand your concern, I don’t think most blog contributors are out to “get” black people. I think they’re worried that Obummer will heighten racial tensions not less. People of all different socio-economic and racial groups are concerned about race or this wouldn’t be an “historic” election. As much as MJ and nyk like to deny that they don’t overly cogitate about race, they do, or they wouldn’t be attacking those they disagree with. You can see that’s what they’re doing, right?

I live in a black community whose very attitude isn’t acceptance. If I’m not with my husband, I feel scared. I’m not imagining some in the community I live in who look at me like I’m some mutant. I go about my daily life, but I know that there are thugs, especially in the black community, who take advantage of the weak and helpless.

Until we have a real and honest conversation about race, not the hate-filled and condescending one that MJ and nyk are currently having with those they have no tolerance for, then, yes, unfortunately, race will always be the 1,000 pound gorilla in the room.

Seems we are more in agreement than I thought. I consider myself a libertarian so I am definitely anti-collectivist as well.

My only point was that comparing Obama to Nazis is over the top. I made the reference to the Taliban to make that point, that is, I think comparing Palin to the Taliban is over the top as well. Rhetoric, as I said.

I don’t have a problem with her religion. I do have a problem with her ignorance and apparent anti-science stances. Those things may or may not stem from fundamentalist religious views she may or may not have, but that’s beside the point.

I know plenty about Islamic extremists from my tour of duty in Iraq.

P.S. Glad there is another atheist (and libertarian?) on this board. I’ll look for your posts more in the future.

Since no one can truly control society (not even the worst of collectivist leaders such as Kim Jong Il can clench their fists tight enough), I am content to control my own actions and practice color blindness myself.

And if I were a doctor, I might recommend some sort of anxiety medicine to alleviate your suffering from unfounded phobias.

zero needs something much stronger than anti-anxiety medicine…

I might as well go into some rant comparing Sarah Palin to Mid-Eastern theocracies and the Taliban. Honestly, comparing Obama to Soviets, Maoists, and NAZIS?

The core of collectivism holds that mankind exists to serve the State and its causes.

No matter what the form (socialism, communism, Nazism, Imperial Japanese militarism, Napoleonism, and yes, even Bathism or Talibanism), collectivism is the great evil that mankind has attempted to free itself from, ever since its dawn.

Obama has stated quite clearly that the State has the right – even the duty – to determine the direction of the labor of its citizens. In other words, to confiscate their earnings and give them to others.

The nature of your statement – that Sarah Palin could be compared to middle-east Theocracies etc. – fails to account for the primary nature of mine.

And to your point on Sarah Palin. I am an atheist, but have no quarrel with those who are Christian and believe in the concept of Free Will, which is perfectly aligned with my anti-collectivist stance and completely against those of middle-eastern theocracies, etc.

Those who fear her because of her religion, and hyperventilate that “Christian extremists are just as bad as Islamic fascists” have met neither Christian extremists, nor Islamic Fascists.

And if I were a doctor, I might recommend some sort of anxiety medicine to alleviate your suffering from unfounded phobias.

I am not going to go back and read through this whole thing. I will be brief though.

Sarah Palin is not to bright IMHO. Someone in this thread earlier put it very well, that somehow, somewhere, being intelligent became being an elitist and bad.

Despite the fact that I often vote Republican (for many reasons), I can recognize Palin for the poor choice she is. Honestly, someone who makes a flippant remark about genetic research like she has recently is either truly ignorant, or purposely pretending to be ignorant to rile her base.

As far as FilmLadd in #409:

Well, I don’t like Obama’s fiscal policies and that’s why I am likely going to vote for McCain; however your post is so much rhetoric.

I might as well go into some rant comparing Sarah Palin to Mid-Eastern theocracies and the Taliban. Honestly, comparing Obama to Soviets, Maoists, and NAZIS?

Godwin’s Law, once again (though I am sure Nazis have already come up several times.)

Anyhow, I’ll be as honest as I can at this point. As I said, I will likely vote McCain. I am still kicking around the idea of a 3rd party confidence vote, but one should really only do that if they don’t care who gets elected. I do care. I want McCain elected because I believe in the free market and I don’t like ideas about “wealth redistribution,” I pay enough taxes thank you very much.

However, if Obama gets elected my head will not explode, nor will I be even terribly upset. In fact, one side of me will be glad that we will not have another anti-science administration.

Finally, one last thought: people say the fact that we could have our first black (half-black) president is historic. I disagree. To me, what would TRULY be historic is when we have our first black president that no one even thinks to mention that he (or she) is black.