Pray
I’ve felt a renewed purpose among the defenders of ordered liberty and limited government these last few days. I think the tide is turning, and if there were a few more days like we’ve had here lately I would be very confident that things would work out as I’d hoped.
I sure do wish the coal-plant audio had hit early last week. I wish the Palin exoneration had come sooner. I wish MKH’s video, the credit card story, Ayers’ relationship to Cuban Intelligence, the text of Ayers’ book, the Khalidi tape…well, we’ve tried. For good or ill, that part’s over. We’ve made our case. We’ve walked our routes and knocked on doors. We’ve given money. We’ve said our piece. To us is left only the simple duty of voting our conscience and remaining vigilant.
It is out of our hands now, but I do believe it is in someone else’s. And so there is still one more thing left to do.
Pray for our country. By God’s grace, we live in a Republic where we may govern ourselves. Pray God would guide us to do so wisely.
Here is the prayer for our country from the magnificent old 1928 Book of Common Prayer. While my private intercessions are a bit more…specific than this, these sentiments still ring true, across party lines, across the years, and across the issues:
ALMIGHTY God, who hast given us this good land for our heritage; We humbly beseech thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of thy favour and glad to do thy will. Bless our land with honourable industry, sound learning, and pure manners. Save us from violence, discord, and confusion; from pride and arrogancy, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitudes brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues. Endue with the spirit of wisdom those to whom in thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that, through obedience to thy law, we may show forth thy praise among the nations of the earth. In the time of prosperity, fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust in thee to fail; all which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
Senator Obama vowed a few days ago that, if elected, he will “fundamentally transform” the United States of America. (Silly me, I thought he was supposed to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution, not remodel it.) And so he may get to change some laws. He’ll definitely try to take our money and our guns. His goons may break some heads and wreck some careers.
But that fundamental change he’s been waiting for is going to be harder than he realizes. He cannot break our spirits. He cannot fundamentally transform us from Americans into cosmopolitan “citizens of the world”. He can’t deface our pride, and his depredations will only make us cling even more joyfully to our faith. No matter who wins this election, on November 5th, and on January 20th, and every day thereafter we will still be free and emancipated citizens of the greatest nation on God’s earth. Obama and his judges cannot just decree us otherwise.
Not unless we let him. Not unless we give up and act like we’re whipped. Not unless we bow down.
I won’t bow down. Not to the Obamessiah. And I won’t change–or if I do, it certainly won’t be a change he directs, and it won’t be into his idea of what I ought to be.
But maybe that won’t even happen. I remember going to bed in November 2000 thinking the same sort of thing about the incipient presidency of Al Gore. And look how that worked out…
As I said, it is out of our hands. Remain vigilant. Do not bow down. Do not give up.
Pray.
________________
{Post by See-Dubya, written on my own time on my own computer.}
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watershed in #175:
I can’t say I disagree with you completely at this point.
I was turned out to MM’s site years ago when I was still in the Army. I have always been something of a fiscal conservative, pro-defense type, as well as being social liberal. As a result, I have generally voted Republican. I also often liked reading MM’s take on things as she presents a different side.
However, lately it seems the Republican Party is pandering more and more to the far-right fringe; some of commenters on this board represent the targeted demographic. Many conservative personalities have also gone this route (Ann Coulter comes to mind, with her book “Godless”).
As a result, it leaves the sane Republicans frustrated and confused. I imagine pro-defense, or fiscally-conservative, or pro-border enforcement democrats might be equally frustrated with their party.
So it goes with a two-party system. As it was pointed out before: (here or another thread?) if you look on a far-left website you will find equally (perhaps even worse) hateful rhetoric (slandering our troops, complete and utter disrespect for Christians while giving Muslims a pass in the name of political correctness, etc.)
I don’t want Obama to win because I don’t think he is qualified, (4 years in the senate, half of which was spent campaigning) however, the alternative doesn’t excite me so much either.
That is merely your narrow minded view.
I hat no one. If you knew anything, you would know that hate is not only a very powerful word, but an even more powerful emotion that eats you up inside.
You ahve a great deal of growing up to do, regardless of your age, and your writings only lend credence to your immaturity.
Only someone of your beliefs could possibly think to know what is in the hearts of others.
Exactly….
Sort of off topic, but I can’t resist, and it’s kind of related.
I think the Episcopalian Church started its decline when they “updated” the 1928 BCP. (Although the change was a symptom of the reasons for, not a cause of, the decline.) Thanks for quoting from it, See-Dubya. And thanks for the post.
Well said.
My response to others’ input: I said nothing in my initial comment about “giving in”. If you re-read it, I said that I will continue to voice my opposition should Obama (if he wins) proceed with his radical leftist ideology, but I REFUSE to belittle myself and dishonor God through sheer hatred. Enough of the hate already. I have no intention of singing Kumbaya and “making nice”. I do intend, however, to remember I am an adult and will act accordingly even when I disagree with the decisions emanating from the Oval Office.
One church hasn’t changed anything in 2000 years of Christianity. They’re dogma, statutes remain the same as does the parish life.
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/
So tell us…when have you ever gone out of your way for your fellow man? When have you ever sacrificed yourself for the good of someone else? When have you EVER put someone else ahead of your own self-interests and person?
When you can answer that honestly with more than even one time, maybe i will talk to you again. Until then, your are nothing more than a scared little boy, parroting those that tell you what to think and say.
zeroangle, #184, I agree with you pretty much completely (I don’t agree at first reading with your 3rd paragraph “However….”). I, too, dislike the personal attack nature that have been posted the last few weeks: it has taken away my enjoyment of reading the comments. So long as we all stick to issues, the discussions–including disagreements–are interesting and useful. I hope after this week we can all go back to that–lgm, Rusty, watershed, and others who disagree with the majority of us actually have brought up some good points in their postings, even if they don’t always argue fairly.
Misscheryl, …you’re correct!
Granite – YOu too???
Big smile on my face.
You betchya!
You ever notice that all we have to do is put a religion-related headline on a thread, and the anti-Christians/soft-Christians/”New” Christians decend like ants to a coolaid spill, running down all who see diffently than they?
I am LDS. My people had an execution order where it was legal to kill, on sight, a member of my Church. It was signed in Missori and not recinded until the 1990s (don’t have the link here, its in the state archives, and its been posted on MM’s site before… google it).
That said: I’ve never, ever told another Christian to STFUSD, even as they spewed their hate at me. The “Christian” flavors mentioned above do it all the time. Thousands of anti-LDS sites. No LDS member-in-good-standing would put a similar site up — their membership would be suspended, as happened when some members in the 70s wrote anti-Catholic tracts, said they were the official church viewpoint and refused to retract them.
The Spirit of Contention is not of me, sayeth the Lord, but of the Adversary. (paraphrase, its been a while since I’ve read it…)
So, you people running down those “End Times”-ers, how do you know? People in Cuba NEVER thought it would become red. People never thought the Nazi would take France, or that they’d turn on Old Joe. They’ll NEVER confinscate people’s gold and make ownership illegal! They’ll never make private ownership of gold legal again. Our financial structure/system would never NEVER rush at socialism!
If anything, it seems the “never can/never will/impossible” people just show their own shallow minds when they prognosticate about something of which they know nothing.
[aside]
I’ve never noticed a problem in the past w/people posting Fairy-Con’s name. Maybe the naughty-word filter’s been updated to be PC…
To everyone answering the trolls and allowing them to hijack this thread, read this:
Proverbs 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you will be like him yourself.
Well, this was a nice thread, until people started answering the trolls…
The trolls win again.
they’ve lost their souls, so any other win is meaningless.
The trolls have not won. I can pray anywhere.
I tried to warn them. I knew they were coming.
I’ve always had these questions for Mormons:
1. Where’s the evidence of the great battle that took place on Cumorah (i.e. chariots, armor, weapons, bones, etc.)?
2. In Ether 9, the author speaks of “all manner of cattle, of oxen, and cows, and of sheep, and of swine, and of goats” and “horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms” being present in the New World between 600 B.C. and about 421 A.D. How is this possible when we know that horses, cattle, oxen, elephants, among other things were brought here much later by Europeans?
3. In Mosiah 7 and 9, we see references to wheat and barley. How is this possible when, again, Europeans didn’t introduce this until centuries later?
4. How do you account for the references to steel being used in 1 & 2 Nephi, Jarom, and Ether when there is no evidence of steel manufacturing until centuries later?
5. If Native Americans descended from the Lamanites, then why does DNA evidence show that Native Americans are descendents of peoples from the Siberian region, not the Middle East?
Thank you, See-Dubya. We miss you around here.
I guess this is a response to a few things.
watershed, i was meaning more of a personal transformation…not a voting one. in the sense you are correct that yes, people exercise change that way…but as a teacher, who you vote for only shapes small parts of life…the law, and so on. REAL transformation comes in teaching a child something they didnt know before, and seeing their face light up when something that was previously unclear crystalizes and they KNOW something they didnt before. It comes in people making personal, life-changing decisions about who and what they are. An election is an exercise in this, but on the broadest of scales. I was directing it more towards the absolute introspective view of what “change” really was, and how i see such change.
to refute a little on another angle…”we” dont show up like “ants”. Zero pegged it correctly that the party i’ve belonged to now for 12 years panders and goes after the evangelical vote faster and harder than it does mine. i’m a fiscal and social conservative…though i have some issues where i’m more in the middle. but i’m condemned and spat upon because i dont go to church every sunday??? Because thats what its like. I was at a small meeting here in Richmond last week with people i thought were like minded. Do you know what i was told? Because i wasnt “born again”…that my vote might as well be for Obama. And why? Because I didnt want to give my heart to Jesus.
Heart to Jesus…Vote to McCain. makes PERFECT sense to me. /sarc off
I absolutely respect those who have faith, of any type. I dont agree with what you believe, but as said before, i’d die defending the rights we all have, simply because its that very freedom that gives you AND me the right to choose what we want to worship, if anything. It’s infuriating that fellow Republicans can smile at me, and love to hear my viewpoints…until i dont link it together with a bible verse, and then all of a sudden, i’m the outcast. I dont care what church, if any, they go to…if they feel the same way about our political system, and believe in the same conservative principles I do, then they are my brothers and sisters in the democratic process.
Well, here’s one, for those who need some Bible from AB here…
Matthew 7:1 Judge NOT, lest YE be judged.
I dont mean to come across as being callous on this, and i apologize to anyone who feels i have. I just hate it that people such as me, and zero, are looked down on by people that we have a great deal of things in common, and that we support in their endeavors, even though its been my very personal experience that the favor isnt returned.
What are you trying to prove here with your over-the-top, looonnnggg posts that appear to me that you are trying to show how much minute and insignificant trivia from the Bible you know. Those questions are ridiculous. Why are you asking them? I am really wondering about your motivation and purpose in your posts…seriously.
Well, those questions are not trying to indicate his trivial knowledge of the Bible, because the verses being referenced are not from the Bible. They are from the Book of Mormon, I believe.
They are directed at an LDS member who posted he is a member of the LDS church. The questions are pertinent because the Mormons puport to be a Christian church, when it is not.
I thought this was satire at first – you people: the bigots, the dead-enders, the mediocre hate filled 300 pound meth heads, the people who fought against Nelson Mandela.
What Lord do you folks pray to?
You are free to come on this board and tell lies, but don’t pretend you believe in a just God.
I thought we always managed to get along. I almost always feel as if I need to apologize for Christians who claim to be Christians and turn around and tell people things like you’ve experienced this past weekend and in the past. But I’m not perfect and I have made mistakes and will continue to do so as long as I draw breath… of that I am certain. I don’t think you as evil because your agnostic. I think you know this much… so I’ll keep it short. The verse you provided above cuts straight to the heart of the matter and I think if people weren’t so emotionally-charged from this election things wouldn’t have gone completely haywire.
Whether or not you believe in God is between you and Him. So many us see people who don’t believe in God and approach them as charity cases or treat them as a project that they’ll soon win over to God. Their heart is in the right place. I hope you stick around as I enjoy reading your posts.
I still don’t get it. Why is that pertinent? So what if they claim to be Christian? That is their right, isn’t it? Freedom of religion? The Mormons believe in Jesus as the Son of God. They are also very very conservative, family-oriented, decent people. By the way, I am not a Mormon, I am Lutheran. I guess I just don’t see where all that is going. Especially on this thread, where we were giving comfort to each other and trying to avoid the invasion of the trolls.
30 pcs:
I am not trying to pick on you so I hope you don’t take this the wrong way, but this:
…is precisely why so many of us “skeptics” get annoyed.
The epiphany I had that led me to become an atheist has, in my mind, been a wonderful experience and a vast improvement in my life. The idea that “this is all I have” has led me to a new found respect for life. Among the trivial results are: I quit smoking and I drive safer, the more important results include just sheer awe of the fact that I wake up every morning.
The idea that believers regard me as some kind of charity case or defective in some way is somewhat insulting. After all, many “skeptics” (myself included) were raised in some religion and regard shrugging it off as a very difficult process that took us a great deal of time to come to.
All we do is take Send_Me’s argument in #202 and apply his rational thinking and logical skepticism to all religions. For that, as abstractmind points out, we are often vilified for no other reason then that alone.
Abstractmind in #204:
Once again, very well said.
Lastly, I will be glad tomorrow when this is all over. Then we can all get on with our lives and I can turn back on talk radio. After all, they will finally have something else to talk about. Then again, I am starting to like listening to music, *smile*.
Michelle, I have been praying all day.
MtsEdge
Oops, sorry see-dub. Thank you for the great post.
On November 4th, 2008 at 5:45 pm, MtsEdge said:
Michelle, I have been praying all day.
MtsEdge
___________________________________
Me, too.
Good advise. All is well when we Pray.
I understand where you are coming from… some of us weren’t religious and turned to Christ for a mirade of reasons. Like I said, I think believers mean well. The charity case and defective stuff I understand firsthand. I speak from experience. It didn’t bring me any closer to Christ. I found my way (if you will) on my own.
Take care.
Amen, sister!
I, for one, will not vilify you for asking questions of my faith. I invite you to ask whatever questions you have. The difference between the Christian faith and others is that Christianity is defensible using logic, history, and archaeology. For example, I know that the Bible is a compilation of 66 books that corroborate one another, written by over 40 authors, in three different languages, over a distance of three continents, over a period of 1500 years, yet we cannot find a contradiction of theme anywhere. The Bible writers, though many never knew one another, corroborated one another. That’s pretty impressive if you ask me. I could go on, but I’ve been accused of being too long-winded.
Send_Me:
I will not be goaded into this pointless discussion again. Suffice it to say, skeptics (and others) also cite logic, history, etc.
Goodnight all.
Since the subject matter is prayer, why do those who are athestic want to read such things? I don’t enter areas where I don’t have any interest and those folks can discuss those issues all they want. Its amazing with all the signs going on around the world that they don’t see the last days and the very last days soon to hit upon us.
see-dubya,
This post made me cry. I love my country and worry about her future that much.
TODAY I realize that praying for a Mcain-Palin victory was asking GOD to cheat on my behalf…the world has lost its only friend…the US…GOD help us now for real.