E-mail from an auto industry worker
Didn’t have time to post an alert beforehand, but I did a brief segment on Fox& Friends this morning on the mega-auto bailout. Reader Alan e-mailed about his experience in the industry:
Dear Michelle,
Thank you for taking the time to read my comments. I worked in the Automotive Industry for most of my career as a supplier to GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda of America, Toyota, Nissan, and BMW.
You were exactly right with your comments on Fox & Friends this morning. The UAW has handcuffed GM, Ford, and Chrysler with unreasonable and unrealistic burdens. Their balance sheets will never improve until they shed this weight.
There is another aspect affecting their business and is not being talked about in the media very much.
Having dealt directly with all current domestic automobile manufacturers, there is a distinct difference in how the Big 3 do business with their suppliers as compared to Honda, Toyota, and other foreign automotive assemblers. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan in particular want to make sure they are entering a partnership that insures financial success to all parties.
GM’s business practices generally lead to no profit, tremendous oversight by their internal supplier quality watchdogs, who demand unrealistic expectations, and extremely slow payment in the reimbursement of tooling costs to start new programs. It is not unusual to see reimbursement for tooling costs years after the program has started.
Their business practices are not a tax payer problem, but a terrible management problem. It was a noble idea for the Federal Government to lend them $25 billion to help. It is now known 4 X’s that amount will not cure the root cause of the problem., but only buy them 4 X’s the amount of time.
When a cancer is identified inside a person, it is immediately removed if possible. The Big 3 has a cancer that needs to be removed. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand why they cannot compete profitability. They have parity on supply costs, materials, and energy with Honda and Toyota. So why can’t they compete? It is clearly the cost of labor.
A few years ago I was in Warren Assembly, in (Warren, County, (sic) [Macomb County,] Michigan. Two plants side by side make the Ford Focus and the Ford Expedition. As you drive from [Dearborn] to Warren County, every abandoned shopping center parking lot was full of vehicles. A friend of mine was then the HR Manager for Ford Truck and I asked him why they were still building.
His answer astounded me. UAW Labor is paid company wages whether they work or not. America has to wake up concerning this. Until we can get organizations like the UAW to understand the only missing ingredient to creating a level playing field is getting the cost of labor to a realistic level, domestic car makers will never be successful.
See what others have said
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Trackbacks
- On The Automakers: Dump The Unions And Then We Can Talk Bailouts | Right Voices
- UAW Malignancy On US Car Manufacturers « Mcnorman’s Weblog
- BizzyBlog » AP’s Auto Bailout Coverage Ignores Excessive Labor Costs, UAW’s Concessions Refusal
- How Unions Killed The American Auto Industry « The Chronicles Of A Rogue Jew
- More on unions - Helps me understand why Ford won’t fix my F150 « Ford F150 News
- MishMashZone » Detroit Auto Industry Bailout
- Bear Creek Ledger » Sympton of US Auto Company’s Cancer
- There's My Two Cents
- It’s Time To Bail On The BailOuts | 101 Dead Armadillos
- Garden State Patriot | Let The Auto Industry Crash
- Michelle Malkin’s Inbox: Email from Auto Industry Worker « Jane Q. Republican
- When Unions Attack | BipolarNation.com
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First rule of digging yourself deeper into a hole: STOP DIGGING.
This what is so maddening about all of this, and that’s exactly the same type of society That One wants us to have. It ain’t gonna work because it can NOT sustain itself. Until the Big 3 get a backbone and
stand up tocrush the UAW I will have no sympathy. There are millions of workers who will do those jobs without a union and probably for a bit less money, too! MOVE OUT OF MICHIGAN AND INTO A UNION-HATING STATE LIKE SOUTH CAROLINA!Not surprised.
Just about anything you can name these days that have gone completely wrong you can trace back to Democrat policies.
I don’t think it’s so much an organized attempt to bring destruction, just an inept and ignorant electorate that keeps electing these bozos into office.
This isn’t something that is easy to fix (politically).
The unions are now bolstered with O winning the election.
But … but … but – we NEED the unions to survive. Just ask ANY union leader.
/removes tongue from cheek/
After I retired from the Navy, I worked for a company that had a “strong” union(CWA). I never bothered to join the union, but they collected dues from me, anyhow. When I needed them to represent me in a dispute, it was no surprise that they didn’t do their best work.
The company I now work for isn’t unionized, and we get along just fine, thank you very much.
Supposedly $1500 of every GM car sold is health care costs. This doesn’t even touch pension costs. Also GM workers have “go to hell” days. They can call in any time to not show up to work, basically telling their employer, “go to hell”.
A kind of off topic question … if we need to contain health-care costs in this country, which we apparently do, then how does insuring the 45,000,000 uninsured do this? Why is that such an integral part of the Dem’s health care plan? I don’t get it. I think they want what they want. They want universal health care. What if that costs the system MORE than it does today? Do they even care about that?
Why, it sounds like Unions are a bad thing, running up costs with no increase in productivity.
No, that can’t be. Refuse to accept.
Signed,
the democrat party.
This is just more confirmation of what’s been obvious for decades: the “Big 3″ will always operate at a disadvantage until the UAW is busted.
There’s no point in throwing money at Detroit as long as the UAW exists. Let ‘em go bankrupt, then use the bankruptcy laws to drive the union bloodsuckers into oblivion. Then all you have to worry about is foolish management decisions…
But instead, under Hope-a-Dope we’re going to get “card check” and loosened federal oversight over union corruption and toe-dancing with organized crime.
My post is more to the portion of the interview I saw with Michelle and blondie on Fox this morning. Why in the world do they have a guest on (in this case Michelle) ask a question and immediately hurry the guest to end the answer. If those conducting the question would simply ask it instead of 15 minutes of lead in..we would then actually be able to get a reasonable answer from the guest. This habit has become very annoying. I actually would like to hear the answer sometimes.
I really like the Idea some have had of a “Structured Bankrupcy” to redo the cancerous union contracts… but the democraps who owe the Organized Crime Unions too much are going to “Spread our wealth” to people who should be in prison under RICO laws.
File for chapter 11
Close all plants
No work,no pay until inventory gone.
When all the inventory is sold off, start hiring from scratch at new pay/benefit package.
The speed with witch these people will abandon their union will be amazing.
I have long thought that by and large unions have out-lived their usefulness.
The first rule of business I learned very quickly was that all parties involved must gain from your association. It’s called WIN WIN. This includes suppliers, labor and the customer. If small business people like me understand that, why can’t the auto industry.
OH I KNOW! I didn’t have a business degree from some elite university.
If we let these three dinosaurs fail perhaps they will reorganize, start over and try to do it right this time. We can all blame the UAW and to a large part that is true-but management has been rather soft on the issue. They really haven’t taken the thugs on in a head to head-not in several generations.
The American people just can not and will not continue to subsidize the overly generous wage and benefit packages paid to the UAW-double and sometimes triple the average American wage. The other monstrosity here is the work rules set down in the forties and fifties-they should not apply.
The Big Three ARE capable of building the cars and trucks we want to buy–WHEN and IF they reorganize and IF Congress does NOT help. If the current auto workers want to build those cars fine-if not someone else will. To quote Marshall Russ–STOP DIGGING THAT HOLE.
So how do you square this with the $400 million spent to elect the naive one?
No…Odopey will step in and broker a deal and we’ll be back to square one.
The Jap government provides their population health care. GM has to buy their workers this benefit. This makes the playing field uneven right off the bat.
Secondly, American health care HMO plans implicitly pay for the costs of the uninsured who seek emergency room care. So GM is paying for health care for people who don’t work for them. Toyota doesn’t have this problem.
GM through its health care and corporate taxes has to pay for some of the $billions associated with illegal aliens. Jap car companies do not have this problem.
GM through its taxes has to pay to defend the oil fields so Japan can get oil. Japanese auto companies do not bear this cost. We also send half our Alaskan oil to Japan. We also implicitly defend Japan from foreign aggression at no cost to Japanese auto companies.
Me too. Doesn’t competition (ie: benefits) solve these type of problems?
What are the most unionized groups in America?
1. Government (includes Public Education)
2. Automotive
3. Regulated industry (old Communications, Rail, Health Care, Utilities)
EEO laws are efforts to effectively subject all of the economy to regulation and unionization. Expect increased government presence in the financial industry to be accompanied by new massive HR oversight, featherbedding job growth on the support side and decreased ability to reward performance and remove failure. This will protect failed dinosaurs and be a barrier to entry for new players. Over time it will further erode the American economy.
Unionists and Socialists suffer from a mental disease. And we know it is communicable because it has now infected the entire country. The insanity is rampant. Unsustainable greed, laziness,self-interest, with the help of Democrats, will kill America. That is precisely what the likes of Obama, Emmanuel, and Ayers intend. Let’s get ready to rumble.
Thank you Cheryl. That has been bothering me for a very lone time. It’s not just Fox, all the networks are doing it. You would think with 24 hours of space to fill, a little more courtesy would be extended to the guest.
Once upon a time in Oklahoma (early 80s) I worked for a company that employed unionized steel workers. Every time their contract came up and regardless of the market they demanded more and more. Simple remedy – the company was done with the steelworkers and moved it’s operation elsewhere.
It’s funny to hear these retired auto workers demand that somebody by gawd better make sure they are paid their retirement and insurance premiums. I understand their worry and frustration but why do I, who never depended on a union for my wage, and don’t have the benefits they have, work so their retirements and health care are taken care of. The gravy train is ova!
One need only look at the steel industry here in Baltimore. Oh wait, Bethlehem Steel doesn’t exist anymore.
Never Mind!
The Big Three are in trouble because:
1.They have huge unfunded pension liabilities, and spiraling health care costs.
2.Special interest groups (unions, environmentalists) will not give them the freedom to adapt and change.
In other words, the auto-makers are a small scale example of the problem with the Federal Government.
Maybe if the big three had spent the last 30 years developing fuel efficient vehicles instead of dumping millions into lobbying congress not to change the CAFE standards (25mpg has been the standard requirement for cars for almost 30 years), they’d have a viable product, and wouldn’t be in this mess. They’ve been sticking their heads in the sand since 1974. You can’t build a sub-par product at above market labor rates, give the customer $5k cash back and turn a profit.
We have a THRIVING US automobile industry in places like california, tennessee, south carolina, alabama etc. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes and others build millions of cars here each year, and they all seem to be doing (relatively) fine. Maybe it’s something in the water in Detroit?
Furthermore, everyone keeps harping about our need for an industrial complex in case we go to war. Guess what? We’re already fighting two wars right now! Guess how many Humvee’s, tanks, and jets GM, Ford and Chrysler provide….? ZERO! And there are plenty of other suppliers out there who could build auxillary vehicles if necessary.
Suck it up.
Let them fail.
Ditto. But they won’t and we are all going to pay the bill.
They do it to get all those commericals in. Which in my opinion, Fox is digging their grave with 2 minutes of news and 5 of commericals AND FOX DON’T THINK WE DON’T NOTICE!
The UAW and Congressional Democrats are co-enablers.
Their goals are the same.
To maintain their grip on power.
How can these systemic problems be fixed when it’s the Federal Government itself that is the cause of it all? The more involved the government is, the worse things become. This is nuts. We can’t reform something that refuses to be reformed. This is an out-of-control renegade Federal government. State governments are no better. Pray for God to raise up real leaders.
That’s part of it.
But, why do you think they are so damn ignorant?
Correct.
I’m not so sure about that.
What else would you call what Soros, Ayres, MoveOn, the
democratssocialists/statists/collectivists/etc. since Woodrow Wilson, etc. have been trying to do?What difference does it ultimately make if you’re placed into mortal, existential danger by a snarling, wild animal;
by a smiling, soft-speaken assassin who soothingly whispers to you, “relax, it won’t be so bad,” as he sticks the knife into you;
or by (a) clueless idiot(s) who see(s) no problem with driving (intentionally or unintentionally) the bus you are in off a cliff?
Would you be happier as you died by one way versus another?
And just whom do you think we should thank for creating, replenishing, and perpetuating this ignorant electorate?
Who do you think destroyed the public school system?
Who do you think controls public education, and the universities and colleges today?
Who do you think has more control and influence over unions?
Who do you think has more of a voice in mass media?
And you don’t think it is an organized attempt?
DITTO
Psst, Michelle… the City of Detroit just asked for a $10 Billion bailout.
Not the auto industry, the city itself.
“If we lose our ability to fail, we will soon lose our ability to succeed.” – Rep Jeb Hensarling
Why all the hatin’ on the unions? This is a symbiotic relationship where everybody benefits. No union would ever bleed a company dry and put them out of business.
Well… Except Eastern Airlines.
Never mind.
Unions, as with many organizations, start out with good intentions and originally correct the abuses of management. Then the pendalim swings the other way.
Because people run them, greed and power start taking over and they go from doing good to contributing to the ruination of the industry.
For example, back in the 70s, the UAW, because they were losing work to Japan because of the inefficient fuel economy of U.S. made cars, using a loophole in the law, bargained for and receieved what they called “sub-pay”. This guranteed them 90% of their pay if they were laid off. The excuse was it was due to foreign competition. I’m not sure how long that lasted and may even be in force today.
As a youngster, I worked on the assembly line and on the docks during the summers and witnessed a maintenance man (member of the UAW) get caught stealing. He drove a small tractor called a jitney that pulled a cart of trash to the outside trash receptacle.
Underneath the jitney he’d fashinoned a small compartment and would slip a new car stereo or two underneath. Once outside, he’d toss it over a fence to a waiting accomplice. After months of doing this, they were finally caught. The employee was fired immediately. But, because of the UAWs strengh, he was brought back to work within a week.
The point being, because of Union rules and negotiations, it is very hard to fire inefficient and dishonest employees without, seemingly, an act of Congress.
This, and the fact they bargained and won full retirement and health benefits, to include dental and eyewear, without contributing a dime of their own money toward the premiums.
Little wonder the industry is in the shape it is. I say let them sink or swim on their own. The Unions are just as much to blame.
I worked in Chicago repairing a tank, the hand they gave me to chase the crack out started screwing up my floor plates. I told him to give me the grinder and let me teach him how to properly do it. He said I could not touch the grinder as he was union, he went to his boss who came in and flipped out over me doing a union hands job. I told him come with me and lets make a call. We called the regional manger for the tank comapany and I explained how the guy was screwing up the job and I had tried to teach him( hell after I taught him he could ahve gorund all day long for all I cared) he said give the phone to Mike. Mike started out telling him how unions don’t allow this and that and then in a blink of the eye it went from that crap to yes sir yes siryes sir and he handed the phone back to me and said go fix the tank floor and if they bother you they will be off site in 2 hours. # days later this union guru cut out a nozzle that cost us 28,000 dollars to replace. It took them 1 hour to clean all their crap off and be offsite by security escort, AFter they cleaned up all their trash and welding rod stubs.
That is the union for you. Screw em!
The American Socialist Movement has been camouflaged as “liberal” due to lack of political power; however, now they have the power. They will feed the union monster until it falls from its own weight and the economy crashes around us.
Pft whats the little worker ant thats been doing the job for years know. The guys with the fancy degrees and disk job say otherwise.
Merit, time it shows a little more than pieces of paper.
Our soon-to-be-president has shown himself to be so vehemently pro-union, he will do anything (meaning everything) in his power to keep the UAW’s built-in culture of corruption and inefficiency unhindered and in-place at any cost — at any cost to the auto industry or to the taxpayer.
They PAID 1/2 of the cost to build it in the first place.
As to the Japanese not having the overhead as GM … they do when they are building cars in this country.
Just like Obama’s tax increase will obliterate the middle class – the very people he claimed to want to help – by overburdening their sources of employment and thus creating layoffs and hiring freezes, the UAW too has jeopardized its members-retirees’ futures by burdening the auto-industry with exorbitant labor and retirement costs.
The only hope for U.S. car makers is to go into bankruptcy and renegotiate their UAW contracts; otherwise, the auto-industry will continue to lose money until they eventually collapse.
Uncle Sam, for the good of the autoworkers and the country, please do not bailout the big three! By not bailing them out, you will ensure that America’s industry continues long past this crisis and will save future generations of tax payers billions of dollars!
Henry Ford figured out a long time ago that people have to be able to afford the cars you’re making. Paying workers $10 an hour is not going to help anyone. Family income continues to fall…and we want to make this worse?
No! Please don’t move down here. The one thing that is beginning to turn the South into purple and then blue states (like North Carolina) is all the idiots that move out of jobless Northeastern states to the South — and want to make our states unsustainable like the ones they just left!
Taxes have shot up in North Carolina since the migration of large numbers of Northerners.
Stay in Pennsylvania. Stay in Ohio. Stay in New York. Stop bring your backwards-@ss (sorry, something we always hear) politics down here. Ruin your own states!
now that the radical, left-wing Socialists are in control of the White House and Congress, the UAW has no reason whatsoever to give up any concessions. The old saw that “as GM goes so goes America” may well proved to be true. If GM, Ford et.al collapse, it’s good-bye capitalism, hello Marxism.
MM — this guy is not an “auto worker” or even an “auto industry worker”. He’s a business owner who hates unions.
It’s the companies themselves that created their financial mess. They negotiated with the UAW to keep wages low but long term health benefits high. That short sighted policy put them where they are now, unable to honor commitments they made to workers starting in the sixties. The UAW is not to blame.
Here’s a clue – all your buddy progressives want to make the good ‘ol US of A part of the global market. That translates to those in the world who are considered 3rd world will have a higher standard of living..those who are living high on the hog comparatively will have a lower standard of living. Do you understand what that means? That means, $10 an hour will be considered wealthy. Our standard of living requires that people make more than $10/hr to have 2 cars in the drive way, a huge home, a boat, etc. Simply put, if the progressives have their way, we will live in government housing and ride bikes.
I worked for a non-union company that made equipment used in grocery stores. When we did a job of removing the old and installing new, it would take 2 days of the store was a union store.
Had to wait for the union …
cashiers to finish.
janitors to clean up.
electricians to unplug the AC cord.
carpenters to move out the old checkout stand.
union carpenters (a different set) to place the new checkout stands.
electricians to plug in the new equipment.
group to fix any issues.
One group had could not touch the other group’s stuff.
Every union group was in slow-motion because these were overnight jobs and they got paid a big hourly premium.
Non-union install took 4 hours … total.
You mean stay and FIX your own states, don’t come to ruin ours!!
Trouble is, they define stupid: Doing the same things elsewhere and expecting different results.
Henry Ford would roll over if he saw what was going on now. I’d venture he would be a true blue conservative.
Sorry, Union lovers, but your beloved Unions have sold you down the river, and your boat is sinking fast.
The days of Union necessity are long, long gone. Management of most successful businesses nowadays understand that favorable pay and working conditions are necessary to attract and hold competent and talented workers.
Unions only serve to promote greed, corruption, and a pervasive “Minimum-Excusable” attitude in the workers themselves.
Paying folks to not even work? Insanity.
The answer is simple: The guests are merely props, the “hosts” are the “stars”. Since they have absolutely nothing to talk about except leading-in to the next segment, that’s what we get. To them the “content” is the inane blither between appearances of the props. By promising Michelle Malkin, Rudy Giuliani, Ann Coulter, etc. they get the ratings, and thus the chance to mug in front of a larger audience so they can plug their trite little books. It’s how “celebrities” are manufactured. Just watch any TV “news” show, for example. Who wants shots of the interviewer with their phony “emoting” for the camera. In fact, I recall one such “interview” where the “emoting” was actually taped long after the actual interview (some detail in the background or something was anachronous).
You are totally missing the point.
In order for the big 3 to compete the playing field needs to be leveled.
The only way to do that is to force Honda, Toyota etc… into the UAW fold. Then everything will be good.
Toxic Bail Out
http://chickaboomer.blogspot.com/2008/11/whos-on-first-whats-on-second.html
Absolutely. I once went on a NBC studio tour. The tour guide told us on the TONIGHT show set, he could not so much as TOUCH, even accidently, a camera, or other equipment, or he would be reprimaded or even fined.
Wrong again. The UAW is at least equally to blame with managament for strong-arming unsustainable contracts.
When the auto industry had little or no competion from foreign automakers, they could get away with contracts with lavish benefits, AND when the number of active employees vastly outnumbered retirees. That more workers are able to retire earlier and live longer does not bode well for any employer costracted to a defined-benefit pension plan.
As the share of domestic auto sales diminished, the industry simply couldn’t continue to add all employee benefit costs to the price of an automobile and stay competative.
Paying workers $10 an hour is not going to help anyone.It would help me to be able to afford a car.
I can’t find my link right now, but Michigan autoworkers make almost $79.00 per hour when you calculate benefits into the equation. The next highest American blue collar group is Toyota lineworkers, coming in at half that.
Get the unions out, and let the free market do it’s job.
Why do I get the impression that you would argue that the world is flat if Michelle posted that it was round?
Yes, I know it’s really a sphere.
I know people where were in Information Technology for one of the auto makers. In a non-union outfit, to move a server from one building on campus to another, the system administrator removes the server from the rack in the computer room, puts it on a cart (or shoulder), hauls it over to the other building and puts in in the rack. Total time: 30 minutes, including stopping at the restroom on the way through.
In the auto-maker, one union guy had to remove the server from the rack and move it to the door of the computer room. There, the server waited for another union member to move it to the doorway of the other building. Once there, another union member had to move it to the computer room, and yet another union member had to put it in the rack. Their expectation was 2 days to move a server.
One thing I would like to point out: this is how many government departments work — the inefficiency is astonishing and stomach-turning. The difference is that there is absolutely no market discipline at work in a government department, so it’s like the auto unions run wild. If anybody thinks government health care is the way to go, I have some bad news for you: it’s a huge disaster (Mikhail Moorechoff’s claims otherwise notwithstanding).
Instead of wanting to hurt Americans, why don’t we round up all the MEXICANS that are here illegaly, including anchor babies, and toss them. We would save a HELL of a lot of money that way.
You have hit the nail on the head. What made McCain a true liberal and lgm a true liberal is their compulsion to rebel; to go against the current. That was the fundamental thinking of the 60s and 70s. Hate anything “establishment.” They believe it is their duty as free Americans to rebel against the majority. They wouldn’t be true to those hippies that founded the liberal movement if they went with the flow.
Sounds sort of like how our government operates..cue Auto Czar!
Heh-heh!
Good post!
I know just what you mean.
I’ve known, and had to work with some people who are so goddamn argumentative that they’d give you an argument if you looked at the sky on a crystal-clear day and said that the sky was blue….
Real partiots would be willing to give up a piece of their union protected pie to save the country.
Americans that are earning twice what the average worker makes don’t deserve any “givernment” help.
Here’s my link: http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/11/50b-bailout-would-only-be-down-payment.html
I absolutely agree that illegal immigration is an issue, but if Americans aren’t willing to work for less than $78 per hour we are truly screwed.
If we stopped paying entitlements, the illegal immigrants would disappear. I live in Michigan, and there are practically no illegals here because there are no jobs. Having recently relocated from Chicagoland, I will say that it’s a pleasant change to live economically and independently.
I discovered many years ago that the only time you could buy an “American” made vehicle was when they were losing money like crazy. Then the quality is good, the customer service is good, the warranty is as good as “foreign” vehicles and they are reasonably priced. I made the mistake of needing one when they were almost making a profit. It was the worst piece of junk, never ran right started leaking from the rear main seal at 30k miles and all I got was “I’m sorry there’s nothing we can do”. My reply was, “let me clarify, you mean there’s nothing you’re willing to do, there is a lot of things you can do.” The answer was “yes, that’s correct” This came from the executive offices. The only problem isn’t the unions; it’s the management or total lack of any competent management at any of these companies. No loans with my tax dollars, it’s not a wise investment at all. Why should I be forced to give money to someone who is going to follow the same failed business model over and over?
The real problem here is the combination of all factors that we couldn’t cover in weeks of discussion. The sad part is we are looking for a quick fix. Here are just a few:
1. Labor costs (to active and retirees)
2. Benefits costs
3. Management/corporate greed
4. Government intervention (tariffs, unrealistic safety/environmental stipulations).
5. Unrealistic advertising (everyone knows who GM is – they don’t have to have their name everywhere).
6. Etc…etc…etc…
GM is a microcosm of what America has become. With everyone at the table looking out for their own interests, no one focuses on the main goal – to succeed and prosper. Management vs. union = Republican vs. Democrat.
Money will not solve any of these problems.
John Deaux: Our day-to-day world is very flat. Maps are flat, when we walk about we do perceive the world as round.
There are very few and rare (percent of population speaking) professionals to whom the globes roundness is significant. For just about everything we are perfectly fine dealing with the world as if it is flat.
* * *
The Economic World — flat or round?
Flat too. Day-to-day perceptions of economics are flat-world. In the neighborhood. A few spans of a arm reach; to pocket for money or credit card, to desktop or work area to earn some cash, to the shelf to take down a product to buy, to the counter to pay.
Big picture, round-world economics exceedingly hard for everydaypeople to understand aptly enough to vote on them.
In the round world view, capitalism and free markets are obviously the way to go.
But in the flat world, if a politician or a union negotiator can throw more dollars regularly into an everydayperson’s account, that makes total sense and deserves a vote.
It used to be that privatecompanies would throw those dollars to everydaypeople regularly. That the presence of privatecompanies was visible in the flat world. By regular money payment events occuring like the sun rises over at the eastern edge of flat world everyday.
The visibles were things like dividends on stocks, like interest on savings accounts, like envelopes full of money handed out by the privatecompany boss or payroll clerk, and for some like the payments gotten by clipping a bond coupon and sending it in. (See for example http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/12/business/yourmoney/12bearer.html)
But sharp capitalist advisors understood who they were advising and advised those executives of privatecompanies that dividends were, well, stupid. Greed is good.
And other titans of finance saw that fiat money was the way to go, and liquidity and only liquidity counted and damn liquid impoundments like savings accounts.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
The flat world view raised to Dogma won out. In the flat world, socialism, centralism, political tyrannies and oligarchies dominate. All flat roads lead to a Rome.
All of what this guy says is probably true – I don’t work in that industry – but it must be said that one reason why the Big 3 are struggling is that the Japanese cos. have always spent more on research and development. That’s how Toyota, et al, manage to produce better machines. The Big 3 are always thinking short-term; let’s do what we can to increase the stock price, quality be damned.
Not that anything could be done this late in the game, but one of the early wrong turns made in Detroit was built in planned obsolescence.
For the price of an automobile lately it should last at least as long as a refrigerator or water heater.
a history of perks will show that these were started in the roosevelt era when wages and prices were frozen by government. then along came ww2 and labor was in short supply, so businesses started offering health care and pensions to attract labor. today the chickens have come home to roost for decades of short term thinking on all sides, coupled with government corruption on all sides (republicans in office get money from businesses and give tax breaks and bailouts to them, democrats in office get money from unions and give benefits to them). now the government is broke, the state governments are broke, the businesses are broke, and the only american enterprise left standing is walmart, while the thrifty long term planning foreigners take over our country. thanks for the help government, it will probably take a century to fix this mess. kudos to banks who think bigger is better, to the teachers union who thinks the lowest common denominator is an education which will power the world, and the unions who think they own businesses without putting in a dime of their money to support that business, and the wall street wizards who don’t give a damn about a companies long term health but view it as a short term gambling event like a boxing match. and a special thanks to the fed who single handedly bankrupted the united states, along with the assistance of unsustainable ponzi schemes such as social security, medicare, medicaid, unemployment insurance, welfare of both the poor and the rich (afdc and farm subsidies), and the great trade unions who build infrastructure we don’t need, cars we won’t buy, and governments who do nothing except grow bigger and fatter.
= Parent vs. Spoiled Child = Rugged Individualism vs. Gimme.
John Deaux,
Please note that I used R vs. D, not conservative vs. liberal. The latter are ideals, the former is the bastardization of those ideals which have become the failures you see at each election.
What I fear for this country is the lack of common ground as a citizenry. We have been polarizing for so long (mostly by our politicians), that we no longer keep our eye on the ball. Instead we snipe at anyone we disagree with. Could you imagine trying to create a wonderful document like the Constitution in today’s climate?
I have seen the same thing many times over. I have seen people nearly get assaulted by union thugs because they plugged in a piece of equipment in a union shop. I have been yelled at for moving fold-up chairs in an auditorium. It is insanity.
cabrerski,
That would be because much like the case of unions, the original reasons for the political parties are long lost. A common enemy unites and these minor differences disappear. The only threat we face is from our own divisions.
Unions as such are not the problem. There was a need for an organization to provide a check and balance over corporate expoitation. Thinks that does not happen. I have 12 -20 million illegals as proof.
However, when unions and corporations throw responsible conduct, common sense and standards of conduct under the bus, you get what we have.
JD,
Agreed. But we will never solve these issues until we take the systemic approach. GM’s issues are many-fold (including the unions). Giving money to GM is like putting a bandaid on someone who has liver cancer. It is time for everyone in the country to see that there is a limitation on money and it is not there for the asking. It needs to be earned and government is not a source of wealth, just a consumer of others’ wealth.
FLY, I have to agree with your last statement. I am not an advocate of government intervention or involvement, but on the other hand, who will watch out for the consumer against these corporations who have no sense of corporate responsiblity. If they could, they would sell you poison and call it candy to make a couple of dollars, and charge you an outreagous amount to boot.
On November 13th, 2008 at 10:22 am, lgm said:
Who is in a better position to both critique and offer an opposing viewpoint to the often unsavory practices of a union than a business owner?
The UAW was stronger back then as there was NO foreign competition in this country, e.g., no Toyota or Nissan, so the car makers were in a bind to acquiesce with union demands or face dire consequences (violent pickets, bad press, and forced government mediation and regulation).
You’re wrong. Non-unionized/UAW plants – foreign and domestic – in states throughout the country are able to produce both competitively priced vehicles and exemplary worker benefits.
An assembly line job at Toyota’s Georgetown, KY plant is one of the most lucrative positions to be had in the state for non-college bound high school grads. The earnings are high and the benefits generous.
The UAW has sunk the big three – they, and they alone are to blame!
Good post.
Yep.
We’re already there.
I’d wager the house and the car (not our firstborn quite yet) that 30% or so of the populace, which incidentally is roughly the percentage of registered
democratssocialists, do not have common ground with the rest of the country; but rather subscribe to a completely, radically (i.e. from its roots) opposite wiorldview.If they did not have this opposite worldview, how then could they not just vote for, but be registered as, socialists?
Yep.
As I remember, the hippies, the “youth movement”, the “counterculture”, etc. started it in the 60s, with the not unenthusiastic acquiescence and support of
democratsocialist politicians.Yep.
See immediately above.
Nope.
Wouldn’t happen. Period.
This would be where greed figures into the equation.
Since the threat of worker exploitation at the hands of a greedy corporation is practically nil today, the unions need to be perceived as relevant to ensure their members will continue to pay dues. Therefore, they champion the cause of the undocumented workers as a way to both retain relevancy and bolster their rolls.
It’s a fine line they’re walking, trying to convince union members that illegals aren’t going to effect their wages. That will only hold true if the illegals unionize. However, if they don’t unionize, they’ll claim it’s the big corporations exploiting the workers all over again. They just need to keep people distracted and/or uninformed long enough. Then again, isn’t that the Dem strategy as well?
On November 13th, 2008 at 11:55 am, John Deaux said:
Exactly.
I would just slightly modify:
Distraction is the socialists’s stock-in-trade.
It is demonstrated at this blog on a regular basis by the resident trolls.
It has been a tradition that if the unions don’t get what they want, they call a strike. If the UAW does not get what they want, the big 3 could go down the road like Eastern.
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910125&slug=1262514
It would be foolish beyond belief to bail out this kind of union sickness. Let them go. NO taxpayer money for this. The free market works. Those who operate wisely should succeed. Those who don’t, shouldn’t be bailed out.
There may be one way that GM can get federal dollars as I see it:
1. The money is a loan (low or no interest).
2. GM cannot declare bankrupcy to escape the liability of the loan.
3. All officers, board members, union leaders must post personal bonds to secure the loans and see #2 above.
4. Tack on criminal charges if the monies lent are used for anything other than what its intent is (ie, no bonuses).
5. The government will not own a stake in the company. That way the U.S. will not feel obligated to save their own stake at a later date.
6. The government will ensure strict oversight, as GM will be billed for this service.
Don’t think it will happen, but this would make the process more palatable, don’t you think?
Those “Japs” build cars in the US for the US market and pay taxes and health care here. If the Japanese government pays for health care in Japan, it would also obviously come out of taxes paid by Toytota, Honda et al.
The no-so-big 3 are poorly managed and shouldn’t be rewarded for it.
Labor unions once started out as a well-intended idea in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, especially during the Progressive Movement. The problem, like all things that have liberal/Dem footprints on them, is the law of unintended consequences.
Labor unions have gotten too big. Their tentacles are now in politics where they should not be. They are outdated and once their suckers are attached to companies like the Big 3, they will never let go until there is nothing left to hold on to, not even the big compensation packages that they hoodwinked the Big 3 into signing off on.
Americans need to look at the bigger picture. My father was in a union for over 30 years and when he was hurt on the job, they never helped him. He had to beg for help. Unions no longer represent their members only those who continue to wield political influence in Washington.
It seems corporate level Big 3 is going the way of their inferior products, planned obsolescence.
Let them go bankrupt. May God help all the employees.
That makes you more qualified to be President than Obama.
I hope the guys at Hot Air will post your Fox and Friends appearance…
And therefore, sadly, pretty much a foregone conclusion.
I’m thinking that this guy has more knowledge of the auto industry than you claim. Just because he’s on the supply side of the auto industry doesn’t mean he isn’t acquainted with its inadequacies.
How acquainted are you with labor unions? To claim that labor unions themselves are entirely blameless is short-sighted and uneducated. I am not averse to unions when they protect worker’s rights but since when did compensation packages that included healthcare and pensions ensure that “worker’s rights were being protected? Weren’t such packages designed to ensure that labor unions remained bloated and lead to the Big 3 being so utterly uncompetitive?
This isn’t to say that management is blameless. They were utterly incompetent in signing such labor agreements to their peril. Now they’re reaping their bitter reward as is Detroit and the state of Michigan.
Tell me, lgm, why is it that states like Alabama and Tennessee (which has a Saturn plant) are doing so well? Why are companies like Honda and Nissan and Toyota doing so well? What do they know that the Big 3 don’t?
Face it, lgm…. the Big 3 are not competitive any longer because their labor unions have them by the b*lls and their management is incompetent. The labor unions must be made to realize, like those in other industries that they can no longer hold sway over an entire industry if that industry is to survive. The unions must be busted and broken if the Big 3 are to survive. If the labor unions do not make concessions they will lose as will the Big 3. One cannot survive without the other and you know it.
Many, many workers, including my own father, have turned on the unions. There are other options out there for workers and unions are outdated in that regard.
The e-mailer identified only some of the cost disparity between the Big 3 and the others. Direct labor is actually a relatively small component of the cost of an auto but the “indirect” costs of that same labor are huge. Detroit for years promised benefits way out of line for the real profitability of making a car.
Secondarily, the Detroit designed vehicles generally cost more to manufacture (not designed for manufacture) and maintain (warranty).
Another non-uniform cost is the costs of Wall Street. In the US, it’s perform NOW or you are hammered financially – investing for the future is not something that Wall Street rewards.
Then we have congress people who think they can wave a magic wand and fuel economy will instantly go up. It costs boatloads of money to comply. When the foreign brands came into the USA, they for the most part offered “smaller” vehicles. The big 3 made the bigger ones. Then congress mandated a certain level of fuel mileage and guess who “automatically” didn’t comply. It has cost Detroit boatloads of money. So congress is partly to blame as well.
ConservativeRus,
You are so right on about the congressional magic wand. Amazing how little things like the laws of physics never apply to the people who make laws
You’re correct.
I might reword it a bit to say that the clowns who make the laws either disregard the laws of physics; or for some foolish reason – known only to them – think that the times when the laws of physics apply can be “picked and chosen” cafeteria-style.
The Dumocrat’s planned $25B bailout of the “automakers” is really a planned bailout of the auto unions.
Granite,
How about “physics a la carte”?