More reader mail on bailout-mania
From reader Bill:
My father in the last years of his life needed to go south to warmer weather because of his health problems. While renting in Florida in the late 70’s my Mom & Dad ran into many auto workers that had been laid off. They bragged about the fact they were getting more money for doing nothing then they were making when they were working.
It will be a shame if we bail out these Unions by bailing out the Companies that they have run into the ground.
I bought a new car in 1973, a Chrysler Valiant. Worst car I ever owned. I have since bought only Japanese, even though I am a believer in buying American. The auto industry didn’t care about their customer and this is one customer they have not won back. They need CHANGE for people like me to change.
God Bless and help America.
From reader Dean:
I missed your Fox & Friends segment this morning but just finished reading your post and the email from the former auto industry supplier. I used to be a union worker and I couldn’t agree more with what the email write had to say about unions keeping labor costs unrealistically high for manufacturers.
I do have a question, however, about the effect on credit markets (particularly mortgages and auto loans) if the UAW were run out of town on a rail and workers took a pay cut. How many of these auto worker families have taken out home loans, car loans and other credit based on their current earnings, and what happens to those debts if their pay reduction is such that they cannot pay their mortgages and other loans?
I understand that if he U.S. auto industry goes belly up and EVERYONE loses their jobs it would be far worse, but either way, it seems to me that the end result is more bad paper in one quantity or another.
Either way, there’s going to be more outcry for one type of bailout or another, unfortunately.
Just my thoughts this morning… thanks for indulging me.
Reader Dennis:
Hello Michelle,
I need some advice. My family and I here in Alaska own a small pizza business and with the economy so bad we are having trouble making it. Who do I contact in this socialist government for our bailout money?
Change your name to Fannie Mae and you’re set!
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Once upon a time in America….
While the U.S. automakers employ many people, I heard on the news about “Detroit-South”, e.g., Tennessee, where Honda and other foreign automakers employ many Americans and are turning a profit. So not everyone will go “belly up” in the auto industry, even. It’s that psychic leap from problem to panic that has created the bailout mentality and ensuing fiasco.
AJ, was that you submitting the ‘I Got Mine’ bill for us? Do we have any updates as to where that stands?
with an emphasis on “once upon a time”…welcome to the USSA….time to exert states rights and for a few to succeed…a few have threatened such action…this is just plain nuts as Barney Fife said in one episode…
The prez is going to bail out GM because of one reason: it keep guys on the job and paying union dues, which is then funneled to Democrats. So, by funding bailouts of union works and giving money to groups like Acorn, we are subsidizing the elections of one party in a two-party system!
This is why you never adopt socialism or elect rabid socialists into the government. It is painful to adopt and excruciating to rid yourself of. The sad truth is, this is only one example. Our society is run through with various socialist policies, social experiments gone awry, and just plain lack of common sense.
It think this bailout mess and its shenanigans are just an inkling of what we will see when Obama et al get into office.
I keep reading about how Congress will over-reach with the increased majority in both houses after the first of the year; I believe they have already over-reached. The Democrat Party and our power- and money-hungry Congress have lost sight of their purpose as established by the US Constitution; they are making up the rules as they go along. And there doesn’t seem to be anyone or anything able to stop them.
The amount of cheating and the level of cheating in this election (as well as other elections) is appalling to me. There has to be a lot of hush money involved; even the judges are on the take.
The American electorate of all political parties should be very leery of this behavior. If this kind of amoral behavior exists at the ballot box, it exists to cheat the average American within the halls of Congress. Congress has lost its integrity and credibility. They stand right alongside the mainstream media. What goes around comes around; all chickens come home to roost.
Don’t ask Gov. Palin. She’ll tell you to take a hike.
Heh. That’s probably why they’re asking where the Fed $$ is.
It’s in your billfold, at least for now. The unions have the dems by the short hairs now, so expect to be mugged by the Feds as soon as they can manage it.
If I’m gonna bail these tools out, shouldn’t I get a shiny new car for my trouble?
I say let them all fail. America is a country of Risk and Reward. If you mess up, you fail. If we remove the Risk from the American Psyche, We have lost what America was all about. A land of opportunity, which includes failure and success.
Government baby sitting belongs where the children never seemed to get along, Europe.
Now Mayors from all over the country are lining up for sugar daddy to take care of them
Actually, it was sonofdy. I’d like to add a few million krugerrands to my list, please.
Get rid of illegals, cancel all welfare, quit paying money to losers for healthcare, don’t loan money and give credit to people that can’t pay, cancel free breakfasts and lunches at school, quit paying for bi-lingual education and special education.. and leave hardworking Americans alone!
I’ve been told that the fastest growing demographic among voters is ‘Government Union Employee’.
Why should they care, or do what’s right for the country?
With a Democrat President and a House and Senate with Democratic majorities, you know they will over reach. Unfortunantely for them, they are also being watched very critically.
P.S. Probably gonna buy a Honda.
I’m patiently waiting for the knock on the door, and the friendly greeting, “I’m from the gummint, and I’m here to help!”
By us. The MSM is still in worship mode.
I have been in the retail side of the auto industry for 30 years. I have watched as small mom & pop dealerships that were passed down to sons and daughters have been bought up by large retail chains. I have seen some of the worst cars Detroit has ever produced, and lately I have seen some of the best. It kills me to see so many dealerships going under, by no fault of their own. The average customer has no idea how much money it takes to run a car dealership. I remember when the local dealer got most of the local business, and contributed money to the community, schools, etc and were great neighbors. Things have changed quite a bit in 30 years. The internet wasn’t the death of dealerships like everyone said it would be. People still want to deal with people, and have someone to go to when they need service. The customers have sure changed. I remember when local folks would come to the store and buy from the same salesperson over and over. Of course there was always the hard shopper who wanted to buy for nothing, but even then they were ususally reasonable. Most would say “I understand you have to make a profit, and a lot of times you would end up 3,4,$500 over invoice and everyone was happy. Nowadays, that same buyer comes in loaded with internet ads, newspaper ads, always with loss leaders, or even ads from out of state!They are not concerned one bit about us making a profit anymore. I’ve had customers tell me they don’t care if I go out of business as long as they get a good deal. And then, when they are on the fundraising committee at the high school, they tell their kids to go with their hand out to the local car dealer, he’s got lots of money. I still remember our local high school one year bought 2 vehicles from an out of town dealer. Our owner called up the superintendant and showed him a list of all the money that he had spent the past year in donations to the local school system, and promptly cancelled all of them. Our industry has seen it’s share of shady dealers, etc, but so have a lot of other industries, and for the most part, car dealers are great neighbors and community leaders.
So we come to today. Well, my dad was in the business for years before me, and he always told me the UAW was going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. It seems your parents are usually right most of the time. Government has a hand in this mess as well with all the regulation that stifles this industry. But for sure, the UAW may have finally done it. I live in the Seattle area where the Boeing machinists just recently signed a new contract. It was a 2 month strike, and I really thought that it could go longer, because the aerospace industry is probably looking at what happened to the auto industry with their capitulating to the unions, and decided they don’t want to go out of business. Prett soon, we won’t be able to manufacture anything in the good ‘ole USA.
Anyway, like I said, it kills me to see what’s happened. There was certainly a time when there was a quality gap, but not anymore. Ford in particular has some of the highest JD Powers ratings of ANY manufacturer, and is equal to Toyota or Honda. I was always told to buy American when I was young. I know folks don’t do that anymore because the young kids coming in today wouldn’t even look at a domestic car. Well, pretty soon they won’t have to weed through all those to get to their precious Hondas & Toyotas, because there won’t be any left.
Just one thing. Do NOT bail out the auto industry. Chris Dodd is hot to bail out those who can’t afford their mortgage. But we have to draw the line somewhere. I say, GM, Chrysler, and Ford. The last car I bought was a Ford Explorer, 1991, still drive it. Yes, lots of problems, but I wanted to buy US. Is Ford in as much trouble as the other 2? Anyway. NO BAILOUT. Honestly, so many auto workers are nearly set for life, if they saved any money at all.
Liberalism kills!!!
Unfortunately, the Idiot American Electorate — in the aggregate — is far too stupid to understand that.
Guvmint is suppossed to “give us stuff”, after all.
The Pelosian public school system (along with her vision of border control) has come home to roost.
And the nation is thus roasted.
They should begin to care as the number of taxpayers who support their lavish pay and benefits (when compared to the private non-unionized sector)diminish.
Government at all levels are going to have to learn to live within their means. Eventualy they will have no choice.
Oh, here in Cincinnati, the area’s very best Ford dealership closed a few months ago. Saw the writing on the wall? John Nolan Ford, family owned and operated, not sleazy, customer loyalty, did a good business. When they closed, I figured, if they can’t make it, nobody can.
And won’t they be disappointed when Dear Leader proves to be human and completely unable to heal all wounds both physical and economic.
I was IBEW for 12 years until I went management. Unions protect the dopers, the connected relatives, old timers who cant keep up, all while stomping out initiative and creativity.
It’s random, arbitrary and unfair to the average worker who could probably cut a better deal if he/she had the chance.
The risks were far greater when this country was founded, e.g., life and limb. We’ve become WAY too soft.
I’m thinking of hiring my kids out to some friends of ours who run a farm, just so they will learn what hard work is really about.
Hubby is a Ford man, always has been. Mom drives GM only. My first car was a ‘69 Chevelle (OK, it was 15 years old when I bought it). But it had AT and AC, not bad. We’re an eclectic family.
Still doesn’t mean the US should bailout the auto industry.
The obvious fact of the American automobile industry is that it mimics what a socialist economy would look like:
BTW-Didn’t Thomas Jefferson say something along those same lines with regard to the continuing existence of a functioning democracy?
All of this started because of George Bush and Paulson’s financial industry bailout…
Thanks Mr. Bush for screwing up this country in past 5 years and destroying the great image of conservatism.
Watching Hank “Kimble” Paulson discussing the bailout yesterday reaffirmed to me that these clowns have no clue what they are doing. They just keep throwing vast amounts of cash at corporate CEOs.
There was a Texas congressman on fox this A.M. who said that the average small business starts up with about A $25,000 investment. We have now spent $3 trillion on bailouts/stimulus to no avail, $3 T dollars could have started 10 million small businesses which would have resulted in REAL stimulus.
Hey, where’s the bailout for Studebaker?
Does federal funding for wind farms, solar panels, compulsory volunteer boondogle groups, more tax refunds to those who don’t pay tax, making the “rich” pay for the social security retirement of others, unilateral disarmament and surrender on multiple fronts, does that count? It’s the Edsel of govt policy.
Red McCombs and Tom Benson seem to have done pretty well. You people have been overcharging for inferior products for so long, you think we’re actually under some obligation to keep buying your junk tin.
American industry doesn’t need a bailout. It needs Americans to support it. I always try to buy American when possible.
To people who buy foreign cars I say, if (God forbid) you loose your job I hope it’s big enough to sleep in.
They can send the Studebaker bailout money to me. I’ll see that the money is used as Studebaker sees fit.
Watching the action in Washington is like slopping the hogs, isn’t it? Drop an ear of corn in the trough and watch all of them come running.
The economy is on the brink of disaster. The goverment can’t stop it. Obama can’t stop it. Anyone thinking they can is just kidding themselves.
It reminds me of the candy factory episode of I Love Lucy. Every day the hands reaching out for money come faster and faster.
You can’t bail out every industry and their unions. Now Obama jumps in to the mix with his socialist agenda and socialist friends, Pelosi and Reid, to bring home this zamikaze mission.
The City of Detroit Wants a $10 Billion Bailout. Not the car companies… the city.
I would love to support American industry whenever possible. It’s been difficult when even American made products use foreign elements. I drive GM vehicles with parts made in Canada and Mexico.
Want more industry and business to stay in or come back to the USA? Ease micro-managing by government regulations and prohibitive costs in complying with them.
One of the better things you could probably do for them.
Socky,
Isn’t that great?!? The entire state of California is going to be $28 Billion short in the next fiscal year and one city (11th in the nation – 2005) wants $10 Billion? The last mayor will not be in jail long enough for his complicity in this crime.
Chicago is calling for layoffs (unless federal help is received). The avalanche has started and is picking up speed. Hold on to your wallets!!!!
When will the people of this country learn that government spending is what is killing this country and it prosperity?
If all my tax money has to go to bailing someone out – why can’t I just keep it and eliminate the middleman?
It is bad for America to buy American products if they are inferior. The American industry does not improve if rewarded for less than mediocre performance. If the Japanese can deliver a superior product at a better price, then we should consider making something better and cheaper than Japan and then… trade.
$10 Billion would simply be a start and be siphoned off by the leaders of only one of the nation’s disfunctional cities. Hmmm, “Disfunction” and “Democrat”, both start with “D”. Any other similarities?
I digress, the $10B could be paid to the leaders on the condition that they resign and leave the country or else Detroit should just be granted forced independence and have the city limits sealed off. Forever.
Bail out one good..
Bail out two better..
Bail out two better..
Why would anyone give the city of Detroit money? They trash and burn their city every chance they get.
1 Turn off the “M2″ stat
2 get unlimited power to make financial decisions and provide weak or no oversight
10 print money
20 give it to friends (bailouts)
30 give it to voters (stim-packs)
40 buy companies & run’em dead
50 get reelected
60 GOTO 10
As the new spokesman for Studebaker, I can say that is more than the $8 Billion Bailout that we are requesting. And we’re gonna build GREEN cars, too. In fact, green will be the base color of all our new models.
Under Obama, the Bloods & Crips will get a bailout due to the fact that Columbia has cracked down on Coca production.
…and Franklin, and Adams (I momentarily forget which…), and probably a lot more of them.
Franklin, though is the one who said we should “make people uncomfortable in their poverty…”
fixed.
AlohaGuy #44,
Ditto!
Once upon a time,
inthere was America…If the auto industry were to be reduced by say, 50% (because it won’t get “bailed out”), why wouldn’t the lost 50% of auto production/demand be taken up by Toyota & Honda?
Thus the “displaced workers” could apply for work with them — They may not get the same benefit package but they would have a job, and the suppliers will have to do the same.
If they can’t meet their standards, then Oh Well!! Guess that supports most of the discussion we hear about the auto industry.
We’re in the market for a car right now. The more I read about this the more likely I am to buy a Toyota or a Honda.
If they want us to buy American then they should compete like Americans, which means not asking for government money.
If there’s any auto company I could honestly not care less if it went under, it’s Ford. The founder was a traitor, wasn’t he?
I live in Israel, and here, they sell vehicles from several companies that I think Americans are really missing out on. For example, Citroen. Their cars and vans get plenty of good mileage, and I think you’d really like ‘em if you could buy them in America. But the US transit authority ran them out in the mid-70s: they wouldn’t approve core features, and so the company left and hasn’t sold in America since.
If you want a really good car from Europe, Citroen is the car you should get, and Peugeot. But how to convince them it’s worth coming back to sell in the US?
Back to the subject at hand, no, a bailout is not the answer. What should be done is to split up some of these companies and sell them to private owners who could research how to build better engines worth your money. And that’s how to make profit honestly.
Exactly. Buying American gets us nowhere if it’s an inferior product. Kind of like electing Bush. If we’d stayed home and let the RINO fail (like we did this time) maybe we’d have had a halfway decent candidate this time around. (Would any of you really prefer Obama over Gore/Kerry?)
Don’t get me wrong…I am EXTREMELY patriotic. I wouldn’t buy gas from Citgo if it were half price.
HOWEVER…
There is no GM, Ford or Chrysler product out there (save the full size pickups) that you can name that I cannot show you a better car at a better price from a foreign car company (probably one with a decent chance that it’s actually built right here in the US)
Not buying american cars doesn’t mean that you think american workers are sub par…this counldn’t be further from the truth. However, the best workforce in the world cant build a great car with shoddy materials, milquetoast designs, and a 5-10yr deficiency in R&D.
Detriot has needed a big heaping dose of tough love since ‘74. It’s unfortunate that they’re on the verge of collapse before we (might) give it to them.
We see eye to eye. I don’t advocate buying from the enemy either.
Tell it, SoCal!
My poor Dad, after 50+ years staunchly buying “premium” American cars and getting junk, finally took my advice and bought a Toyota. He’s delighted with it, but saddened that such a high quality car couldn’t, in 50 years, be made by an American company.
Good idea.
Side note:
In Texas – football rules the world. When I was playing ball in the 80s, (we feared to play Odessa Permian in ‘Friday Night Lights’) no matter how hot it was, we got ONE water break per practice. And that was a coach holding a water hose going “1-2-3 next, 1-2-3 next”
Guys from the 50’s and 60’s thought we were soft because they didnt even get water.
I was talking with the local coach last night and he was complaining about kids these days. They can call their own break AT ANY TIME and have as much water as they want. And even then, the parents think he is mean. I live in the land of liberals and it’s not even hot here! (theres no oxygen… but its not hot)
It just translates across all of society these days. How about for you Jarheads out there when they started letting us wear Running Shoes in boot camp?
I love my Toyota!!! And as General Buck Turgidson said it was likely built here by American workers… so there.
If it’s any consolation we researched Chevy SUVs first and the only one I fell in love with was the Tahoe but it was not in our price range. Great truck! I had the pleasure of driving one around for about a month while my car was being repaired (don’t ask). It was great. The blazer was in our price range; however, reliability was a problem. Hence, the reason why Toyota has yet another loyal customer.
Don’t bail them,jail them! Build better cars.Follow the Japanese model of business which proves overpaid and unionized is not the answer
“And won’t they be disappointed when Dear Leader proves to be human and completely unable to heal all wounds both physical and economic”
Their mouths will hang open and they’ll all cry boo-hoo . . .
the Grinch
Agreeing with everyone here; regardless of the pain and suffering, we must let them fail now, for future recovery and success.
From an article yesterday in the WSJ:
“America has two auto industries. The one represented by GM, Ford and Chrysler is Midwestern, unionized, burdened with massive obligations to retirees, and shackled to marketing and product strategies that have roots reaching back to the early 1900s.
The other American auto industry is largely Southern and non-union, owes relatively little to the few retirees it has, and enjoys a variety of advantages because its Japanese, European and Korean owners launched operations in this country relatively recently. Their factories are newer, their brand images and marketing strategies are more coherent — Toyota uses three brands in the U.S. to GM’s eight — and they have cars designed for the competitive global market that exists today.”
There’s a lot more in the article, worth reading …
“…First, Congress and Mr. Obama will need to decide what they mean by ‘the auto industry.’…”
What they really mean is “UAW” and “Executive” bailout. Can’t have the employees, retirees, or executives suffer any loss or reduction of salary and/or benefits and bonuses.
Now can we?
“To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.”
-Thomas Jefferson
There is enough blame to go around. On the Democrat side, Chris Dodd (D-Countrywide) made sure that nothing got in the way of Countrywide doling out subrprime “stated income” mortgages. It was no accident that Dodd was a certified “friend of Angelo”. And the audacity of Kent Conrad to have Jim Johnson, a Fannie Mae CEO call Angleo Mozilo to arrange for a low interest low closing costs mortgage was disgraceful. The SEC should never allowed the capital requirements of investment banks to be lowered so drastically that these investment banks like Lehman could get into the CDOs and other exotic but disastrous investments. Lehman CEO Richard S. Fuld, Jr. and Merill Lynch dope Stanley O’Neal were both incompetent. And the shareholders have to pay for their incompetence. There is no glory here. Dodd is at the epicenter of the mortgage meltdown although CNN and MSNBC protect Dodd, Conrad and Frank.
DO NOT LET PRESIDENT BUSH, Pesident-elect Obama, Paulson, Dingy Harry or Screeching Pelosi see this Headline:
U.K. Facing Sperm Donor Shortage
May need bailout
—
Celebrate Diversity:
Carry a Revolver and an auto loader-you too ladies.
America First
America Alone
Americans Come Home
The problem with the US auto makers is neither the size or the quality of their products.
The problem resides in both corporate and union management. NO amount of cash can fix these problems.
Chapter 11 is the ONLY solution.
The bail outs are bad enough, but there is never any plan to fix the cause of the problem. If there is no proposal to fix the auto industry so that they won’t be back with their hands out in 6 mounths, not one dime.
Reader Bill, best car I ever owned was a slant-6 Plymouth Valiant. It could take a lot of abuse, and keep running. I also owned a Buick LeSabre. Ran very well. Over the years, I’ve owned 4 foreign cars…a VW Bug that was in the shop more than the road, a toyota Celica with the same problems, and 2 Hyndais that had the worse transmissions I’ve ever seen. Right now, I have a Chevy Monte Carlo. Good car. Maybe it’s just my luck, I suppose. Others swear by their foreign cars.
Important rule: if you want to buy a European car, don’t EVER buy a German one. I’m shocked that after all these years, almost every German company with the exception of Opel and M.A.N, still sells in the US, because IMO, their motors are terrible. But I have a good idea why they got in to begin with: if the info I found on Wikipedia is correct, during the 60s, anti-warrists and counterculturalists were responsible for making Volkswagen’s monstrosities a success. But really, VW’s engines are awful, and both the “Beetle” and the Transporter were some of the ugliest vehicles I ever saw, too.
Related note: I regret ever having seen “The Love Bug” and its sequels when I was a kid. That Disney movie was little more than a propaganda machine for promoting a piece of junk.
Avi Green
But really, VW’s engines are awful, and both the “Beetle” and the Transporter were some of the ugliest vehicles I ever saw, too.
The VW beetle engine is NOT awful – it is one of the most durable, easy to fix motors ever made. Souping them up was a cinch and parts were not exhorbitant. You need to remember these cars were totally different and ugly does fit the bill. They were never intended to be attractive. Ferdinand Porsche’s design was 1930’s vintage and never really changed. It worked in spite of being ugly – chicks loved it and thought it “cute”. My wife would drive one today if her shoulder would allow her to shift the 4 speed.
I’d like to apply to be an illegal alien…err…undocumented worker, so I can get 3 of the last 5 years tax payments back. In addition, I’d like to apply as a bank so I can get my handout…err…bailout. To whom do I send my bribe?