Truthers to the left of me, truthers to the right
Truthers to the left of me, truthers to the right
by Michelle Malkin
Creators Syndicate
Copyright 2008
Did you know that Sarah Palin-haters are still trying to prove she didn’t give birth to her youngest son, Trig? These tinfoil hat-wearers are as obnoxious and unhinged as the 9/11 Truth cultists who insist that America engineered the jihadi attacks on itself. The presidential campaign may be over, but there’s no expiration date on Palin Derangement Syndrome.
Jack Bogdanski, a law professor at Lewis and Clark College in Portland, Oregon, stirred up Trig Trutherism again this week with a post on his website exposing “Sarah Palin’s fake pregnancy belly.” Armed with frontal photos of Palin’s stomach, Professor Bogdanski declared: “The March 26 photo is the smoking gun. There really is no chance that there’s a baby in there who will be born 23 days later at six pounds birth weight. And there really is no chance that the child grew so suddenly over the following two weeks…Sarah Palin is not the mother.”
We’re all obstetricians now!
This nonsense began with left-wing Internet rumors that Gov. Palin was really Trig’s grandmother and that she was covering up for the “real” mother of Trig – her teenage daughter, Bristol. The conspiracy was hyped by The Atlantic’s resident excitable womb-chaser, Andrew Sullivan, and later amplified by “respectable” journalists like CNN/Washington Post media reporter Howard Kurtz. As the fever swamps roiled, an Alaska TV reporter, Cherie Shirey, stepped forward to squash the paranoia with a statement to the liberal Huffington Post:
“These internet rumors are very bizarre. We worked with Governer Palin many times in 2008. Our reporters worked her on location and in the studio and I worked with her myself. She was definitely pregnant. You could see it in her belly and her face. The whole idea that Sarah Palin wasn’t pregnant with Trig is completely, absolutely absurd.”
Shirey was ignored. Profile shots of a heavily pregnant Palin taken in April 2008 didn’t satisfy the Fake Belly! mob, either. The disclosure that Bristol was in fact pregnant with her teenage boyfriend’s child did not quell the insanity. Neither did a health assessment from Gov. Palin’s personal physician affirming her five pregnancies nor did contemporaneous hospital accounts of the birth nor did Palin’s accounts of nursing Trig.
It’s only a matter of time before someone accuses Palin of planting fake breast milk on her pump.
The plain truth will never mollify a Truther. There’s always a convoluted excuse – some inconsequential discrepancy to seize on, some photographic “evidence” to magnify into a blur of meaningless pixels – that will rationalize irrationality. Palin could produce Trig’s umbilical cord and it still wouldn’t be enough.
Alas, Trutherism thrives on both the left and right. Which brings us to the spate of lawsuits challenging President-elect Barack Obama’s U.S. citizenship. On Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court considers one of those suits filed by New Jersey citizen Leo Donofrio, who maintains that Obama is not a “natural born citizen” because his father held British citizenship.
There may be a seed of a legitimate constitutional issue to explore here (how is the citizenship requirement enforced for presidential candidates, anyway?) And at least Donofrio concedes that Obama was born in Hawaii. But a dangerously large segment of the birth certificate hunters have lurched into rabid Truther territory. The most prominent crusader against Obama’s American citizenship claim, lawyer Philip Berg (who, not coincidentally, is also a prominent 9/11 Truther), disputes that Obama was born in Hawaii and claims that Obama’s paternal grandmother told him she saw Obama born in Kenya.
Berg and his supporters further assert that the “Certification of Live Birth” produced by Obama was altered or forged. They claim that the contemporaneous birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper of Obama’s birth is insufficient evidence that he was born there. (Did a fortune-teller place it in the paper knowing he would run for president?). And they accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being part and parcel of the grand plan to install Emperor Obama and usurp the rule of law.
I believe Trig was born to Sarah Palin. I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on U.S. soil. I believe fire can melt steel and that bin Laden’s jihadi crew – not Bush and Cheney – perpetrated mass murder on 9/11. What kind of kooky conspiracist does that make me?
***
Here’s an excerpt of Philip Berg’s 9/11 Truther manifesto for all of you who have made him your new hero:
“It is time for the nations of the world to come forth and take the leadership because of the failure of the United States Government and the States where crimes were committed on 09/11/01, where no thorough investigation and indictments occurred, to investigate, arrest and prosecute the people responsible for the murders on 9/11/01, specifically including George W. Bush and Richard Cheney. ”
“Bush and his cronies made 9/11 happen or let it happen. And, if they let it happen, then they made it happen. Either way, they are responsible; and more important, they have completely and unequivocally covered-it-up!”
…That an event such as 9/11 was desired by powerful Administration figures, including Cheney and Jeb Bush, the President’s brother, is a matter of record, as the Project for the New American Century’s [PNAC] blueprint for worldwide U.S. dominance entitled “Rebuilding America’s Defenses,” stated that the program they advocated could win popular support only with the help of a “catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor” which (we are supposed to believe to be coincidence) came to pass just 8 months after many of the co-signers of the PNAC document assumed high positions in the new Bush Administration in January 2001.
As President John F. Kennedy stated, “Things do not just happen; they are made to happen.” There has never been an investigation of 9/11 that had not concluded, before it even began, that the Official Story convicting Osama bin Laden and absolving the Administration and the military of complicity of anything worse than “intelligence failures,” which thereby made the outcome a foregone conclusion.
It is time that the men who had the motive, means and the opportunity to commit the terrible crimes of 9/11, and who have profited by it politically as well as financially, be exposed for their role and held to account.
The world has suffered since the horrific acts of Bush and his cronies on 9/11, that being the events of 9/11 and the aftermath, the illegal act of war against Afghanistan and Iraq that has caused the death and injury of hundreds of thousands, including thousands of U.S. troops; the destruction of property and the enormous costs involved.
Saddam was tried, found guilty and sentenced to death after being convicted of murder in the killings of 148 Shiite Muslims from an Iraqi town where assassins tried to kill him in 1982. This number of killings that Saddam Hussein was found guilty of is far less than Bush and his cronies caused to die on 9/11.
The 148 Iraqi deaths for which Saddam was tried pales in number to the 750,000 dead at the hands of George W. Bush as a result of this illegal invasion of that country which includes babies, sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, elderly grandmothers and grandfathers, killed without remorse by George W. Bush and his war profiteering supporters.
Bush continues the war in Iraq to keep the world’s attention there and not on the atrocities caused by him on 9/11, including the possibility of Bush sending up to 40,000 more troops to Iraq, even though a majority of the American people are against this increase.
The world must act now because our own government has failed us. We cannot relent until real justice is reached. Only by exposing the truth of 9/11 and revealing how it was used as the “trigger event” to justify the neocon’s imperial policy can we put these events in proper prospective.”
***
More conspiracy-mongering: A Politico writer speculates that Justice Clarence Thomas distributed Donofrio’s application for conference as some sort of payback for Obama’s opposition to Thomas. Grow up already.
***
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Excellent point. I have been reading about the differences between certificate of birth and certification of birth, and you nailed them exactly. Another important fact is that Hawaii, during the time that BHO was born, allowed foreign births to be registered in the state.
I do not understand Michelle and the other posters who are casting this situation off as some fringe-kook-theory. As ITookTheRedPill is saying, you’re not being consistent…and really, you’re not being a true conservative.
OMG! The State of Hawaii has gone troofer!
They say that Obama could have been born in a foreign country! Gasp.
For those who want to see an excellent blog that has been discussing the Obama issues fairly and intelligently for months now, please go visit Texas Darlin.
It’s run by Clinton-supporting PUMAs, but they are welcoming to patriots from all parties.
No – but his parents may have, in order to secure a citizenship berth for baby Obama on the U.S. Government’s gravy train, i.e., medicaid-infant social services, future school loans, etc.
Conservatives seek truth
Wacko Liberals make up truth
Conservatives are guided by a moral foundation.
Wacko Liberals are unguided and have no moral foundation…morality and truth are both relative to them.
The more likely reason for the birth announcement is the most logical. The proud grandparents wanted the notice in the local paper. They actually had telephones back then.
Are you intentionally being obstuse with this? This “mundane” record is a prerequisite for the Presidency specifically identified in our nation’s founding document. And you want to just forget about it?
Why even bother being conservative if you’re not consistent?
I agree that we don’t need to be seeing all documents of the candidates like SSNs, driver’s licenses, school records, shot records, and whether or not a candidate had chicken pox. However, the location of a candidate’s birth IS required to know to determine a candidate’s eligibility.
And all you, Michelle, and other posters care about is if other people will start putting a tinfoil hat on you. That is rather…shameful, if you ask me.
:SIGH:
See post #48. I guess I should have put the statement in quotes – my bad. I did, however, produce a link.
Please, do not be so quick to judge. I want BHO to produce a BC. I highlighted the part where his BC in on record and I wanted answers to my questions. UGH Some of you people are too rabid.
Sorry, I misspelled “obtuse”.
Maybe someone with a legal background can clarify something for me…
I’ll start by saying that I’ve always had a problem with this ‘Natural Born’ argument– Obama’s mother was an American, and as the mother of children born abroad myself, I realized that he was a citizen of the U.S. because she was.
My concern is what he did after he reached the age of majority. My understanding is that the U.S. does not recognize dual citizenship, meaning that if a citizen chooses to acquire or retain citizenship documents and status in another country, they forfeit U.S. citizenship.
So my question is… If Mr. Obama traveled abroad using an Indonesian passport after he turned 18, how could he legally retain U.S. citizenship? I don’t know enough about the law to know why this isn’t an issue, but it interests me far more that where he was born.
I personally am very disappointed in Michelle’s position on this. You do not have to have a tin foil hat to see that this is a real issue. It may turn out to be nothing. In which case that will be fine and most will accept and be relieved.
But what if it isn’t? Who in their right mind spends hundreds of thousands of dollars to avoid producing their birth certificate? Especially when it is so easy to do so and end the challenges conclusively. When you add in the sealing of all his records and transcripts it more than passing strange.
Frankly, conservative pundits should be calling for the real birth certificate and ALL of his transcripts and writings etc. ON GENERAL PRINCIPAL. They should “harp” on it till we “The People” get it. Does anyone think that if the situation were reversed and a conservative was being this suspicious with their information that it would be tolerated much less defended by liberal pundits.
You don’t have to board the crazy train to do the right thing in this case.
Jangar, well said
Agreed – and you can bet, had he won, the NYT and NBC News would have dogged McCain non-stop demanding to see his birth certificate!
Well put, but who ever said that the left had a right mind?
Bravo!
Arizona, I think you know me by now. The strict interpretation of our Constitution is paramount to to me. I am a practical man, with many many battles marked on my holster. It my appear that I’m compromising my principles by I can assure you I’m not. We are, as conservatives, without political power. This issue is dead to the mindless masses and will never gain traction with the MSM. Wait. Be ready. The left will provide a target and that’s when you go into battle. This is not the time. I’ve NEVER lost.
Pill, I appreciate your contributions and opinions so much, you have no idea!
OK, let’s get more facts here
The Honolulu paper made up this lie
Ms. Fukino said no such thing
She does not, and can not say, Obama was born in Hawaii. She does not say the original BC is from Hawaii. I am not even sure she is saying that she actually saw the BC (or is just saying that she has verified its existence).
Repeating for emphasis:
It is factually incorrect to call Obama “President-Elect” and Biden “Vice-President-Elect” at this point.
As a side note, with all the shenanigans in voting deliberately put in place by the democrat party, is it really to much to ask for BO to cough this up?
I mean we all agree that every voter “should” have to prove they are legal to vote, why shouldn’t the candidates have to do the same.
Before I get any questions on this, let me add one more thing. Yes, the original BC could be from a foreign country. Hawaii has thousands of them.
I can’t seem to wrap my head around why someone would spend $800,000K as opposed to $10 to settle this question. I have to prove I am here legally to maintain my professional license. Should B. Hussein not be held to the same standard to hold the most powerful position in the world?
Michelle,
I don’t think equating truthers AFDB wearing with asking B Hussein to cough up a BC is fair.
Having said all that.
It is unlikely, to me, that Obama was born in another country.
I think the whole thing, photoshopping out the raised seal on the COLB, fighting the original BC in court is meant to do the following:
1. Delay
2. Paint questioners as troofers (thanks Michelle, LGF and others)
3. Keep people off the trail of the likely real issue – multiple (or no US) citizenship.
We know Obama was born with citizenship in 3 countries – US, UK and Kenya.
He may still have citizenship in the US and the UK.
If he became a citizen of Indonesia (no dual citizenship then), then he may no longer be a US or UK citizen. He would be more of an illegal alien here.
Just strike out the first line I repeated on post #48 and let’s move on. UGH
Michelle,
I really don’t think it’s either fair or correct to lump the Obama Bitrth certificate people in with the 9/11 truthers or the PDS people.
In BOTH the cases of the 9/11 Truthers and the PDS people, there is AMPLE evidence to show they are wrong, and yet they persist.
For the Obama birth certificate issue, there is NO serious evidence to show they are wrong. We only have circumstantial and anecdotal evidence to show they are wrong. We STILL do not have the proper long-form birth certificate.
Now personally, I also think that Obama is LEGITIMATELY a Natural-Born citizen of the United States. However, until such time as the birth certificate is produced, I am will to entertain the POSSIBILITY that I might be wrong. It’s called being open-minded.
There is a logical, sound and plausible argument that says Obama might not be a natural-born citizen. There is a logical, sound, and plausible argument that says Obama IS a citizen. What is lacking is definitive evidence one way or the other. Producing the long form birth certificate would do that. It would put this issue to rest once and for all, and THEN and ONLY THEN would you be able to fairly say that any people STILL clinging to the “Obama is not a natural born citizen” idea are “Truthers”.
I would suggest spending some time over at Plumb Bob Blog as he has a great article about this issue up today.
Sun Yat Sen
If you think this through a few steps…
If one of these lawsuits makes it through and Obama is ruled ineligible on some technicality, I can hear “stolen election” and more.
It would be better to paint Hillary as the culprit.
It would also be better to stand against McCain’s citizenship. Who wants to hear “no legitimacy” and “stolen election” for 4 years?
A new election would result.
Of course, Michelle Obama would then run.
Obama vs. Palin?
What makes you believe he was born on US soil, Michelle? Do you know or have you seen something I have not?
Blog of the Leo Denofrio, the attorney whose case is in conference of the SCOTUS today:
Natural Born Citizen
Oh, Michelle–you kooky scamp!
When the state comes after me for child support, then I will testify as to whom the true mother is…
The lack of pressure that would normally be exerted by a responsible media verses a fan club of groupies has caused this problem along with the man himself.
I can sympathize for the professional bloggers such as Michelle whom have built up their reputations over years. The unknown can only allow speculation.
Who wants to be labeled as a conspiracy wacko?
However the major media outlets do have the resources to find out. Obama has taken steps to make sure they can not in case any of them suddenly decided to look a little closer.
The problem is that you can bet people such as Putin already know more about him than we do.
The situation now, if allowed to stand, will lead to an inevitable Constitutional Crisis unless the doubts can be dispelled.
Will we find out if he is eligible, or not? That’s the big question. As long as that question remains unanswerable the Constitution itself is in jeopardy.
That’s why more than just the “truthers” have also taken notice.
Michelle, this approach trades your reputation with the NY media for your reputation with your own readers.
You can disagree with Berg without pissing off your readers that have logical questions.
If Obama is deemed not electable, the NY media will turn on you just like they turned on John McCain. They won’t care about what you say in this post. You will be lumped in with all the right wing.
BTW, I appreciate you allowing opposing viewpoints on your blog. Some are ban happy.
Maybe he doesnt want to release it because we’d find out he’s the son of Frank Marshall Davis? (joking)
This lawsuit is going no where. But I really cant lump anyone into the “kooky” category for wanting to see his Certificate of Live Birth Record. I dont see this as being even in the same category with 911 Truthers or Palin belly busters.
Alan Keyes filed suit as well.
Michelle,
I must respectfully and vehemently disagree with you on this one.
Even you will agree there’s far too much mystery associated with Obama’s past. It is incumbent upon us to make him prove he is indeed qualified under our Constitution to lead this nation. Period. The fact that he continues to ignore requests for irrefutable proof of his citizenship eligibility speaks volumes about HIS disregard for our nation’s operating document. And raises legitimate questions as to “why”.
Tin foil hatters? With all due respect, you are entitled to your opinion, but how insulting to those of us with honest questions about the man’s integrity and background.
ASK
Andrea Shea King
I don’t believe Michelle is altogether wrong in seeking “balance” in her article, though I prefer seeking the facts and letting them fall where they may.
Where Michelle erred here, setting aside that somewhat ill-advised search for moral equivalence, is she did not differentiate between lunatic conspiracy theories and a simple factual observation.
To note that Obama is either unable or unwilling (or both) to produce the vault copy of the alleged birth certificate is an incontrevertible fact that is not disputed by anyone. If you go off on tangents like how that means he’s really a Martian who came to destroy earth or sumpthin’, then you’re off in nutso-land.
I’m not sure why Michelle used this tactic, though, since it’s extremely bad logic:
If you’re operating from the premise that if a person is incorrect on “X” it means the person is incorrect on everything else “A to Z”, you’re obviously using very faulty reasoning. If that were the criteria, than everyone would be nuts, as we are all wrong on some things and right on others.
That rationale all too often fails when even the blind squirrel finds the peanut.(e.g. You could say the few Democrats who voted against amnesty were wrong to do so since they get other things wrong.)
While it may not seem odd to Michelle that a presumptive President-elect is unable to cough up the alleged vault copy birth certificate, it would be more surprising to me if that simple fact didn’t raise eyebrows. And I’m not one given to conspiracy theories.
As I sez, we all make wrong calls at times, Michelle is no different even though she’s right more often she is incorrect. In this case, she just erred in reaching too hard and in the wrong place for a fair-and-balanced “we do it, too” relativistic example. That approach doesn’t always work so well since facts are very often unfair.
I’ll bet Trig’s birth certificate is easy to produce.
I don’t believe BHO is disqualified (unqualified, yes), but it does not take a huge leap away (simple proof of birth) from common sense as does subscribing wholly to the PDS or 9/11 conspiracies.
Thanks Michelle for being a voice of sanity. I’m not happy with the election of the Obamessiah either, but I’m skeptical about this whole is-he-or-isn’t-he eligible issue.
I do think though it ought to be a requirement for every president elect to prove citizenship and eligibility.
Ad hominem slander passes for sanity to some.
Michele, it’s disappointing that you have taken this position and have lumped in people seeking evidence to answer their question with those who will never accept evidence that conflicts with their viewpoint.
That is exactly why the majority of those who are demanding proof of Obama’s eligibility…are NOT Truthers. Truthers refuse to accept verifiable evidence. Questions regarding Obama’s elibility to be President WILL be satisfied with certified documentation. All of Obama’s records are “unavailable.” Why is that?
.
Once official certified documents are presented, which every other president elect has released willing, then Constitutional eligibility can be determined and the issue is over. With no certified documentation of his various school records, long form birth certificate, emigration/immigration records, passport(s), and other documentation presented, how is elibility to be determined or possible conflicting sovereign allegiances? Obama’s demonstrated golden word?
The very thing that makes obummer dangerous is why our founding fathers would have a natural born citizen be POTUS: eliminate the chance of foriegn dominion over us.
In my opinion, unless obummer can prove otherwise, I am free to form my opinion on what evidence there is:
father a muslim, not a US citizen
mother an athiest, very young at his birth.
Refusal to provide documents from his early life, including college records.
Spent a portion of his formative years in a Muslim nation.
Mother involved with a second Muslim man.
No testimony of faith or Baptismal into the Christian faith.
America at war with Muslim extremist, Holy war.
Connect the dots, it is not difficult.
WIth respect, Ms. Malkin, the contemporaneous birth announcement of Obama’s birth placed in a Hawaiian newspaper really does not provide proof of Hawaiian birth, unless you accept the notion that children born abroad are never announced at home.
I don’t expect that O was born abroad, but I would like to be certain, all the same.
How is a specific requirement stated in the constitution a “technicality”? Is the first amendment a technicality also?
I don’t care if it’s a conspiracy or not – I’m glad Sarkisian is gone!
ICBMMan–
Thanks for your reasoned response. I should clarify what I was trying to say with the word ‘mundane’. I agree that it is a clear prerequisite for the office of the President to be naturally born. I meant mundane in the sense that candidates for president, for years and years now, have not been expected to produce a birth certificate for public inspection. The public has relied on the word of those who keep such records. Now, all of a sudden, with Obama comes this clamor to see the actual certificate. I think it would set a bad precedent to go forward with this.
I am pretty bummed about Michelle posting my picture on this blog without my permission.
Those who can’t handle the truth
try to silence both those who speak it
and those who seek it.
You can’t win for losing Michelle. I hope the Republicans, conservatives, whoever learned a lesson. You make alliances with nutcases to win elections, you are stuck with those nutcases for life (or until you publicly and unconditionally call them out and rebuke them for the insane asylum candidates that they are).
Gread Scott anyone???
I meant…
Dread Scott anyone???
Interesting reaction!
I think Michelle opened up a can of worms. I think she has been consistant in not buying into conspiracies. I can understand the reluctance. However as we know there are conspiracies. We just tend to not find out much about them until years later.
But do any us doubt George Soros sets up his conspiracies? Do we doubt that he plots the demise of the Republican Party? Do we doubt that Al Gore is part of some conspiracy with his Global Warming hype? Do we not see coverups all the time? Aren’t these the result of conspiracies.
The problem is over-generalizing. Just because some conspiracy theories seem trite, does not mean all conspiracy theories are wrong.
Unfortunately we will never know what conspiracies actually take place for the most part. Who is going to expose them?
This story is so ridiculous that I’m surprised that Michelle even bothered with it. I suppose it is to head any escalation “off at the pass” but, I could have done without it.
Moon landings, grassy knoll, Pearl Harbor attack…all government conspiracies. Area 51, Paul is dead, Y2K and finally the twin towers. It is truly a strange world that some people inhabit.
How many of these truther beliefs does the average Ron Paul supporter believe – that’s what I want to know.
Sarah Palin is way to gorgeous to have ever been pregnant…but tell that to a truther!
I disagree. Name a previous president or presidential candidate for whom their place of birth was not clear cut. Even with McCain, at least we know where he was born. We also know that BOTH his parents were American citizens at the time.
My youngest son was born in the Netherlands and his mother was a British national. His Consular Report of Birth Abroad states that he was an American Citizen at Birth by virtue of my own citizenship (and having met the age/years living in America requirement). I believe he’s eligible for the Presidency.
The circumstances of Obummer’s birth are sketchy. His mother is known to have been in Kenya while pregnant. We are to believe that at 8 1/2 months (or so) she took a long flight to Hawaii to give birth. Other evidence suggests she didn’t take that flight until after he was born.
Okay, fine. Let’s see the original birth certificate showing the place of birth and delivering doctor’s signature to put the question to rest.
Vargas in 146 said:”I think it would set a bad precedent to go forward with this.”
This is not a new issue, vargas. See red pills post and link in 130. Recent history demanded Mcain answer the same questions of eligibility…
I think if the problem here, MrP, is in the mixing of apples and oranges as I mentioned in an above comment.
To clarify;
Speculation about the reason Obama cannot/will not allow his birth certificate be made public falls into the “conspiracy theory” nutso-stuff category.
By comparison, simply noting that Obama is unwilling/unable to have his birth certificate made public is an objective observation of a fact on which everyone agrees. Observation is the starting point of the scientific method.
Michelle hasn’t been quite consistent on this, MrP.
The tone of this blog entry is hardly dismissive:
The buzz about Barack’s birth certificate
“Why shouldn’t the record be in the public domain for presidential candidates?”
I didn’t say she was consistant about all things. But she has consistantly come down against conspiracy theories in general. I think she think nutroots just hatch rather than conspire
Michelle Malkin finally got around to slandering 99% of her readers.
50% wasn’t good enough. I was wondering how long it’d take. Can we get Michelle a firearms training course regarding asking questions before shooting?
For the record, I think Obama was born in Hawaii AND I think he needs to produce his original, signed birth certificate.
Oh, I knewdat, MrP. I could’ve been more clear that it’s on the very specific question at hand where there isn’t a consistency.
For an intelligent non-partisan (or multi-partisan) discussion of the issue, I have found texas darlin’s blog to be one of the very best.
For an overview of the cases go here to review the list which is updated only to 12/4/08.
Renee_VA wrote:
Try “Dred,” Renee.
Hate to disappoint you, but I was born under the same circumstances and don’t qualify to run for POTUS.
I had a US father and a British mom (war bride) I was born when she was back in the UK 4 years after the war but before she qualified for her US citizenship. I had to declare for my citizenship (US or UK) at age 18. Chose US, but I am still NOT eligible to be POTUS even though I too have a Consular Report of Birth Abroad.
Had Mom been a US citizen before I was born, then I would qualify (as did McCain) to run for POTUS.
NBF, a writer should not be worried if what s/he writes meets with the reader’s approval and I don’t believe “slander” was Michelle’s intent. I think a more fair and accurate description would be that Michelle’s original intent was to give the dementia-ridden Sullivan a good (& deserved) smacking around. Problem is she went about in a haphazard ham-handed fashion which contradicted even her own previous musings.
Even the legends didn’t bat a 1000. Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you.
But it might be a good idea to be afraid of Scott, too, LN.
Ronald Reagan said “Trust, but verify.”
1. Barack Obama II, the Senator, was born of a British subject and an American citizen. Period. This grants him, at birth, Dual Citizenship.
2. “Natural-Born” is codified as meaning “born of two U.S. Citizens on U.S. soil”. Period.
By these standards, set forth by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, and by treaty with Britain, Barack Obama II is not, and can never be, a “Natural-born citizen”.
This is the core of Donofrio’s case, and it’s based in solid law, which is why Justice Thomas saw merit in reviewing it. If they do not rule on this case, it opens the door to a host of lawsuits claiming later that any law signed by a President Obama could be challenged in court. They have to rule on it, although they do not necessarily have to find in Donofrio’s favor.
It is misleading for Michelle to associate Donofrio’s case with Berg’s as she attempts to discredit Donofrio with Berg’s nutroots blathering about 9/11. Donofrio doesn’t ask for Obama’s State of Hawaii Birth Certificate because it isn’t needed. He has instead, challenged the certification of Barack Obama as a candidate by the Secretary of State in New Jersey. And, on this point, he’s right. As a citizen of that state he has the right to challenge on this point. Michelle’s misconstruence of the various points involved is NOT typical of her thorough reporting. In essence, she fired from the hip like the MSM is doing currently on this issue. Ed over at Hot Air did the same thing yesterday.
If 4 of the 9 justices agree to hear this case, they might issue a stay on the vote of the Electoral College in order to have time to hear both sides of the case fully, which makes it VERY BIG NEWS indeed.
Donofrio also points out, correctly, that John McCain is not a “Natural-Born Citizen” either, as the base where he was born was NOT U.S. soil, as per the military’s own definition. Yes, both of McCain’s parents were U.S. Citizens at the time of his birth, but the Constitution and immigration law is quite clear in stating that “U.S. soil” is a hard and fast requirement. Evidently the base in Panama was leased, which makes ownership of the land Panamanian. Their citizenship does, however, make him an “American citizen”. He is not “Natural-Born”.
This is NOT a conspiracy theory. It is Constitutional law, which falls under the purveyance of SCOTUS. Judge Thomas would not, as a conservative, I believe, hold a grudge against Sen. Obama for his comments during the campaign. The fact of the matter is, Sen. Obama is not eligible, by nature of his British birthright, for the Presidency of the United States.
Everything in his life which came after his birth is moot.
Reagan had it right… “Trust, but verify.”
Interesting,
Left-wing Lunatics can bust their balls, exposing a vast amount of personal information about “Joe the Plumber”
But,
When anyone asks to see a Document concerning the legitimacy of the Birth of The Anointed One, seeking to hold the title, “Commander-in-Chief, we’re told “Grow up already.”
I had already figured, Our Little Blogger was in the tank for Obama,
I just hadn’t figured,
How Deep?
Michelle, you are just plain wrong about the natural born Constitutional issue.
If I am a truther for wanting Barry Soetero aka Barry Dunham aka Barack Hussein Obama to produce a copy of his original Birth Certificate, then count me as Proud Truther.(yes, he has used all three of the above names)
We do not even know when Barry legally changed his name let alone his college record of achievement, his medical status to be president, and anything else that we normally know about a president elect.
The only reason we are being called truthers is because this man is black and once again how dare we offend him or question his motives.
We’ll I am sorry but this flim flam man is getting away with violating our Constitution just because he is the Anointed One and the first black president.
If he were white or a Republican, no one would let him get away with sealing all of his records since college and sealing his birth record.
When I see the type written birth certificate(they did not have laser printers in 1961)I will then shut-up.
I had to produce a birth certificate to get my drivers license why should Obama or Barry not have to produce it to become President?
BTW-When did he legally change his name, inquiring minds want to know.
Michelle,
I honestly had a higher opinion of you. You’ve drawn an invalid parallel.
The original photos are available for the press to see & handle. Indeed, some of the original photos, video, whatall was taken by the press… various Alaskan papers and TV stations.
All we are asking is for McEars to return the favor. I would think that someone who law clerked would know that if a document won’t satisfy a lesser requirement it certainly can’t be stretched to fill the gap to satisfy a greater requirement. If:
all there is is a Cert of Live Birth, (and many more reliable reports agree than disagree that facsimilies of a CLB are the documents that have been produced to date…)
and:
HI own laws state that there instance where a CLB is insufficient to prove identity
then:
it follows that those same documents are insufficient to prove natural born status. NBS is the more stringent requirement, afterall.
Add to that, there are obvious problems with your other evidence. Here’s an example that leaps to mind:
My 3rd son, Tom was born while we were stationed in Japan. Because of difficulties, all our family feared my wife was going to miscarry. When Tom was born, somewhat early, my sister was so relieved that she called the local paper — it wasn’t a podunk paper, either. They put the announcement in, naming a local hospital as the place of birth! When my sister called back to find out what happened, she was told that where Tom was born really an irrelevence, it was easier than trying to track down info about the actual place! And the rest of the evidence to date falls apart just as easily. Your left with this question: Why spend huge $ to stop a rumor easily debunked by a 10min press conference, certificate-in-hand? If nothing else, isn’t MightyEars’ time worth more? The time alone spent fighting if its tinhat is wasted, so produce the certificate.
To pull the kind of tarnish-by-false-parallel you {PDA edit buffer full, finished nxt comment}
Bravo!
I fail to understand just what it is you’re winning. As soon as this evil, evil being takes his perjured oath of office, everyone in this country is a big loser, big time.
Win what? We lost on Election Day. Every time we let these scoundrels ignore the Constitution, we lose.
I’m not about to go out without kicking and screaming when there’s a stipulation in the Constitution that would prevent — or at the very least — point out, quite publicly, that this man was illegitimately elected to every office he has held thus far.
cont from #169
…is beneath contempt, and I must say I’m quite surprised at you!
Did Palin hide proof, or thrust it into the limelight?
Did TheEars hide proof, or thrust it into the limelight.
I, for one, am saddened you’ve picked up the “McCain Bigot”(pat.pend.) tarbrush.
Oh well, I guess it is par-for-the-course with anyone whose had Law training or runs a news/opinion outlet.
Bummer.
But, do you have a reference for what constitutes “qualified”? Has “natural born citizen” been clearly defined in some official documentation? Why is “citizen at birth” not the same as “natural born citizen”?
From today’s Patrot Post:
http://patriotpost.us/
The bolding above is mine, but this is why we want to know about BHO’s birth. Is he rightly qualified to be the POTUS?
There is no “truther” activity here, we are not denying truth, we are trying to uncover it.
Yup, Monkey. Personally, I categorize this column as an atypical stray not-well-thought-out “misfire”.
Patriot Post — My bad!
Purple,
What has me angry, sir, is that I’ve just been smacked in the mug w/that d@mn McCain Tar Brush(pat.pend.)! You know the one, they’re melting the tar to reload for January, it says “Only Bigots Are Against Undocumented Workers! Yes, we mean YOU guys insisting the Law be applied!”
And, it was done by someone I trusted to deal honestly. That Tar Brush is, by its nature, dishonest!
That is why I am angry enough to chew nails & spit rust!
well you know there are still people who believe that we never went to the moon with a manned mission
Dex A wrote:
Nope, other than I was a “natural born” British citizen because I was born in England to a British citizen. As I said, I had to declare for either US or UK citizenship at some point.
When Dad was stationed at the Pentagon we went into DC and filled out all the paperwork for me to become a “US citizen” which included submitting a copy of my mother’s Certificate of Naturalization. The result is I have a Certificate of Citizenship (does BHO have one of those!?!?!) that I have to show every time my security clearance is updated (every five years).
BTW, since my Mom passed away this spring, I have her Certificate of Naturalization now.
Sorry to say, but Michelle’s flat out wrong on this one. That’s OK, though. With the mighty work she does for conservatism on a daily basis, she needs to prove her humanity once in a while….
…al because neither B. Hussein Obama or anyone else, Michelle included, can explain why you’d hire a Bank of lawyers to prevent America from seeing if you’re qualified to hold her highest office.
Re: Rotarymonkey Comment #166 – You are correct.
Precisely, Rotarymonkey. I interviewed Donofrio on my radio program last night in which he emphatically declared that his case clearly differs from the others on this point.
If there is some confusion (and I don’t think there is) on what the founders intended when they wrote the “natural born” clause into the Constitution, let the Justices give us their considered opinion. If it is then determined that Obama does not meet that criterion, do the right thing: Stay the electoral college, and figure out what to do from there.
Options could include directing the electors to cast ballots for the other qualified presidential candidates, or hold a new election, minus Obama. Either way, when and if that happens, batten down the hatches and buckle up for what could be a storm of magnitude.
Which (some suspect) might be why the Justices may decide to not deliberate the issue. The possible ramifications on this nation could be devastating. Imagine the reaction/response of those who look upon Obama as their saviour…
ASK
I’m not sure the situation is the same since my son was born in a 3rd party country. I may have to do some more digging up on this. E.g. do Dutch laws make him a citizen of the Netherlands? He’s 14 now, so I have some time to research to find out what, if anything, he must do when he turns 18. Still, an official reading on constitutional eligibility for office would be nice.
There is ample evidence that Mr. Obama was born in Kenya. Interestingly, all of his birth records have been sealed. Given the multitude of lawsuits demanding that he do so, why in the world is this man not simply showing the vault birth certificate that he was ordered by a court to show?
Truther or not, it smells very fishy, and when the Constitution is the possible victim, there should be no compromise.
Should Mr. Obama show such proof, I do believe the case is closed. However, all he has shown is a Hawaiian birth certificate that under Hawaiian law doesn’t prove a thing with regard to where he was born.
I don’t allege that he was born anywhere in particular, but I do want to see the proof that it was somewhere in the USA. He has an obligation to show proper documentation to that effect. After all, when the rest of us start a new job, we have to do pretty much the same thing.
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
I’ve got to say that I did a LOT of reading yesterday. I was following Berg’s case to SCOTUS, and was unaware of the others, including Donofrio. I must have read somewhere around 1000 comments on a few different websites, with opinions running both ways. Legalese is a formidable language but Donofrio’s website does a good job of distilling the basics of the case.
One comment was a little disturbing though. Evidently in light of Donofrio’s council today at SCOTUS, there are some Secretaries of State around the country now looking into this matter on a CYA basis! If they are proven culpable for having not properly done their job and independently vetted each candidate, then there could be serious legal or professional employment repercussions. For public employees in a rough market, losing one’s job is scary to contemplate.
On the other hand, there’s Kool-aid drinker Sen. Mel Martinez claiming that Sen. Obama was vetted twice, once in the Primaries, and once in the General Election, by the People, of all things! Could a stupider statement be uttered by an elected official? Clearly he does not understand the issue at heart.
Donofrio’s case began quite some time ago and has slowly worked its way up through Mr. Donofrio’s persistance and knowledgeable application of the law. For a retiree, he’s doing pretty damn well up to this point.
If SCOTUS decides to hear this case, this will go down as one of the most important points in American History.
The only thing Barack Obama could possibly do at this point is to release a Birth Certificate showing that Obama Sr. was not really his dad. I’ve looked at the family photos; that’s just not possible. Sen. Obama’s appearance is a chip off the old block for sure.
For any of the other numerous cases (I’ve read 15, but haven’t researched that number yet) to be heard, this one single point must first be decided. It doesn’t matter that he later held a Kenyan citizenship, or was adopted by an Indonesian parent, or traveled to Pakistan on someone’s NON-US-ISSUED passport (a violation of his US Citizenship, by law too). None of that matters one whit if the court finds that he truly has, by right of birth, British Citizenship.
As Michelle Obama famously said, “I’m not aware of any law which would prevent my husband from being President.” I guess an Ivy League law degree doesn’t buy as much as it used to, eh?
Did anyone else note that the Factcheck.org COLB lists his mother’s MAIDEN name, not her “married” name on it? Two or three photos farther down, the newspaper notice of birth lists “Mr and Mrs. Barack Obama” and was supposedly posted by Ann’s white parents. Would white parents in 1961 be thrilled enough to list their daughter as married to a black man, or was the COLB in fact, correct in listing them as UNMARRIED? How many millions of people have looked at these photos now and NOT noticed this inconsistency?
It doesn’t matter in the end. British law bequeaths citizenship through the father. It’s just one more point which shows that someone didn’t cross all their “t”s or dot their “i”s properly during the creation of the COLB.
If it is indeed ruled that Barack Obama is a Dual Citizenship person, then does his misbehavior, and that of those around him become a matter which could/would/should be investigated by the FBI?
The FBI which WOULD have the power to open his sealed records in order to ascertain exactly WHY they were sealed in the first place? $650 million dollars in campaign donations is a LOT of fraudulent money!
Not nearly as devastating as allowing the Constitution to be circumvented. No, if the Justices have a shred of integrity, they will uphold the Constitution they have sworn to defend.
The truth will out. Whatever uproar might occur if BHO is determined to be ineligible would pale in comparison to the rebellion that would ensue if it came out that he was ineligible, but the SCOTUS refused to do anything about it.
The election results would stand, with Biden (and Palin) being the two valid candidates. Law is clear, those were the only two eligible names on the ballot by the time allotted last year. The Electoral College would then vote for Biden, and he would be sworn in Jan 20, 2009, or sometime thereafter, by SCOTUS.
I do not believe there would be a new election as the Constitution does state clearly that the Vice-President, or Vice-President-Elect shall stand in as the President.
BTW-I want to point out that these are the kinds of questions I wanted to see Michelle ask in one of her weekly columns. I was sorely disappointed in what she did actually write. That’s water under the bridge now. Live and learn.
Obama had triple citizenship at birth:
US,UK and Kenyan
We would give up McCain on technical citizenship grounds as a “magnanimous” gesture.
New elections would be held.
Michelle Obama vs. Palin
You shouldn’t take it personally, Mike, for two reasons, at least; first, I’m sure that was not Michelles’ intent and , secondly, because anger clouds logical, linear thinking. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being steamed and letting that steam off, though.
But I think you’ve touched on something that might prove to be problematic for Michelle. Had she maintained the questioning attitude she expressed earlier, e.g. something like “it’s troubling Obama cannot produce the vault copy birth certificate”, it would be in sync with her opposition to amnesty.
I’m not sure how you can give Obama a pass on his inability and/or opposition to releasing his personal documentation while not extending the same courtesy to illegals. That is, it’s difficult to oppose “undocumented Americans” when you have an “undocumented President”. So Michelle may have undermined her credentials in the amnesty arena.
Me, I would have at least waited for the Thomas and the other Supremes to sort things out and avoided entirely the waging of war against self-constructed apple v. oranges strawmen.
Rhetorical question:
Why was Joe-the-Plumber vetted more than
Barack-the-POTUS-Candidate?
Kenyan citizen ship did not exist in 1961. It was a British Territory, and not a sovereign country.
rotary, Obama’s own smears website says “his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982″
I give him the benefit of the doubt here.
Of course, Obama obfuscates here and doesn’t mention his UK citizenship on this page.
I am disappointed in you, Michelle, and your friends at Hot Air as well. However unlikely this whole controversy is to overturn the results of the election, at its core it is a Constitutional question: WHAT MECHANISM IS IN PLACE TO ENFORCE REQUIREMENTS FOR CANDIDACY FOR PRESIDENT?
It’s just plain stupid to compare the question of what Obama’s Certificate of Live Birth says (not “Certification” — there IS a difference) to 9/11 trutherism and smears of Sarah Palin; in those cases, the burden of evidence is on the accuser, none has been brought forward, and there is no easily-obtainable single piece of evidence that will settle the issue.
OTOH, in Obama’s case, the burden of proof of citizenship is ostensibly required of Presidential candidates by the Constitution. So, let’s recap: A Harvard-trained Constitutional law professor — the President of the Harvard Law Review, no less — has won the election, but does not feel compelled to produce the contemporaneous record of his birth to prove he is qualified to take the oath of office. Gee, Michelle, can’t I ask “Why not?” like you did in June without being called a “kook”?
Are we supposed to ignore the fact (revealed by Leo Donofrio) that a Nicaraguan national who is definitely UNqualified to be President made the ballot in five states? Finally faced with the issue, is the SCOTUS doing its job if it says, “Article II, Schmarticle II…just take his word for it”?
Hats off to Justice Clarence Thomas and every other person who refused to just toss this over their shoulders into the circular file as if a legitimate issue has not been raised. And shame on those of you who are so intimidated by the MSM you rush to go on record as wanting to see this issue end before it plays itself out.
Now, an argument can be made that BHO is not yet the ‘President elect’ since the electoral college has not yet met and cast their votes. If BHO is found to be ineligible AFTER the electors vote, then it is clear that Biden would act as President ‘until a President shall have qualified’. What does that mean?
So, if BHO is found to be ineligible before the electoral college meets we have a situation not anticipated in the Constitution.
We live in interesting times.
BTW- Michelle also states above that Donofrio’s case challenges Obama’s US citizenship, when it does not. Obama is a US citizen by birth, through his mother. That isn’t challenged.
What is challenged is that the Secretary of State in New Jersey failed to properly vet the candidates on the ballot in the General Election. There are, I believe two candidates named; Senator Barack Obama due to his dual citizenship with Britain, and one other whose name I’ve forgotten, who doesn’t have US Citizenship at all.
This is why Senator Obama has absolutely no say in this matter whatsoever at this point. He’s already confirmed in his books, and on his own website that he indeed had British Citizenship conferred upon him at birth. Ooops.
Also, if anything, Michelle is to be forgiven for her story as I’m sure she was busy watching the heads of GM, Chrysler, and Ford grovel on CSPAN yesterday. No time to really research the Donofrio case, which has really snuck in under the “MSM-activated Liberal Radar”!
I think this is why this post has remained relatively “troll free” for the moment. This is NOT something they’ve seen coming, in spite of Sen. Obama’s resistance to releasing any information about his past.
Trolls can’t speak “Legalese” perhaps?
What is now Kenya was a British colony when Barack II was born.
He had British citizenship at his birth, regardless of where he was born.
That British citizenship turned into Kenyan citizenship when Kenya became independent of Great Britain.
Obama’s own smears website says “his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982″
Which only serves to prove that he had British citizenship at birth!
“Dual” citizen and “Natural born” citizen are
MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
Obama is not eligible to become POTUS.
Does this mean Nancy Pelosi could declare herself President?
If the President-Elect cannot be chosen by the Electoral College due to eligibility concerns, the #2 man on the ticket moves up. That’s why it’s called “succession”. A new election would not, could not be ordered by the court because the valid timeframe for balloting, etc, has already passed. Nor could McCain be chosen the winner by default because, in the same manner, the court may have to find him ineligible too. In that case, I believe the VP picks move up, and in particular Biden, would ascend to the Presidency.
We voted for a party “ticket”. My ballot didn’t say “Obama only” It said Barack Obama/Joe Biden, or something like that.
It also doesn’t matter if Obama claims his British Citizenship was transferred to Kenyan Citizenship which expired. By British Law, he can reapply for citizenship AT ANY TIME, by birthright. Period. I.E. he STILL, to this day, has Dual Citizenship rights with Britain and the U.S..
And again, at birth, he cannot be considered “Natural-Born”… All that comes later is moot. Don’t be distracted by the flashing lights and shiny colors…
If the SCOTUS case went past January 20th, then indeed, Pelosi would be confirmed as President-pro-tempore. Bush and Cheney MUST leave office on January 20th, 2009. If there is no new President-Elect chosen by that time then it would fall to Pelosi by succession temporarily.
Scary, but true.
no conspiracies, but i do find it creepy and scary that barry finds his history (less his self agrandizing books) so worthy of being kept secret. what is he hiding? why is he hiding it? the group above who ask why spend all this money over such a simple request have a point, not because it goes to his legal status, but that it goes to his judgement.