Truthers to the left of me, truthers to the right
Truthers to the left of me, truthers to the right
by Michelle Malkin
Creators Syndicate
Copyright 2008
Did you know that Sarah Palin-haters are still trying to prove she didn’t give birth to her youngest son, Trig? These tinfoil hat-wearers are as obnoxious and unhinged as the 9/11 Truth cultists who insist that America engineered the jihadi attacks on itself. The presidential campaign may be over, but there’s no expiration date on Palin Derangement Syndrome.
Jack Bogdanski, a law professor at Lewis and Clark College in Portland, Oregon, stirred up Trig Trutherism again this week with a post on his website exposing “Sarah Palin’s fake pregnancy belly.” Armed with frontal photos of Palin’s stomach, Professor Bogdanski declared: “The March 26 photo is the smoking gun. There really is no chance that there’s a baby in there who will be born 23 days later at six pounds birth weight. And there really is no chance that the child grew so suddenly over the following two weeks…Sarah Palin is not the mother.”
We’re all obstetricians now!
This nonsense began with left-wing Internet rumors that Gov. Palin was really Trig’s grandmother and that she was covering up for the “real” mother of Trig – her teenage daughter, Bristol. The conspiracy was hyped by The Atlantic’s resident excitable womb-chaser, Andrew Sullivan, and later amplified by “respectable” journalists like CNN/Washington Post media reporter Howard Kurtz. As the fever swamps roiled, an Alaska TV reporter, Cherie Shirey, stepped forward to squash the paranoia with a statement to the liberal Huffington Post:
“These internet rumors are very bizarre. We worked with Governer Palin many times in 2008. Our reporters worked her on location and in the studio and I worked with her myself. She was definitely pregnant. You could see it in her belly and her face. The whole idea that Sarah Palin wasn’t pregnant with Trig is completely, absolutely absurd.”
Shirey was ignored. Profile shots of a heavily pregnant Palin taken in April 2008 didn’t satisfy the Fake Belly! mob, either. The disclosure that Bristol was in fact pregnant with her teenage boyfriend’s child did not quell the insanity. Neither did a health assessment from Gov. Palin’s personal physician affirming her five pregnancies nor did contemporaneous hospital accounts of the birth nor did Palin’s accounts of nursing Trig.
It’s only a matter of time before someone accuses Palin of planting fake breast milk on her pump.
The plain truth will never mollify a Truther. There’s always a convoluted excuse – some inconsequential discrepancy to seize on, some photographic “evidence” to magnify into a blur of meaningless pixels – that will rationalize irrationality. Palin could produce Trig’s umbilical cord and it still wouldn’t be enough.
Alas, Trutherism thrives on both the left and right. Which brings us to the spate of lawsuits challenging President-elect Barack Obama’s U.S. citizenship. On Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court considers one of those suits filed by New Jersey citizen Leo Donofrio, who maintains that Obama is not a “natural born citizen” because his father held British citizenship.
There may be a seed of a legitimate constitutional issue to explore here (how is the citizenship requirement enforced for presidential candidates, anyway?) And at least Donofrio concedes that Obama was born in Hawaii. But a dangerously large segment of the birth certificate hunters have lurched into rabid Truther territory. The most prominent crusader against Obama’s American citizenship claim, lawyer Philip Berg (who, not coincidentally, is also a prominent 9/11 Truther), disputes that Obama was born in Hawaii and claims that Obama’s paternal grandmother told him she saw Obama born in Kenya.
Berg and his supporters further assert that the “Certification of Live Birth” produced by Obama was altered or forged. They claim that the contemporaneous birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper of Obama’s birth is insufficient evidence that he was born there. (Did a fortune-teller place it in the paper knowing he would run for president?). And they accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being part and parcel of the grand plan to install Emperor Obama and usurp the rule of law.
I believe Trig was born to Sarah Palin. I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on U.S. soil. I believe fire can melt steel and that bin Laden’s jihadi crew – not Bush and Cheney – perpetrated mass murder on 9/11. What kind of kooky conspiracist does that make me?
***
Here’s an excerpt of Philip Berg’s 9/11 Truther manifesto for all of you who have made him your new hero:
“It is time for the nations of the world to come forth and take the leadership because of the failure of the United States Government and the States where crimes were committed on 09/11/01, where no thorough investigation and indictments occurred, to investigate, arrest and prosecute the people responsible for the murders on 9/11/01, specifically including George W. Bush and Richard Cheney. ”
“Bush and his cronies made 9/11 happen or let it happen. And, if they let it happen, then they made it happen. Either way, they are responsible; and more important, they have completely and unequivocally covered-it-up!”
…That an event such as 9/11 was desired by powerful Administration figures, including Cheney and Jeb Bush, the President’s brother, is a matter of record, as the Project for the New American Century’s [PNAC] blueprint for worldwide U.S. dominance entitled “Rebuilding America’s Defenses,” stated that the program they advocated could win popular support only with the help of a “catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor” which (we are supposed to believe to be coincidence) came to pass just 8 months after many of the co-signers of the PNAC document assumed high positions in the new Bush Administration in January 2001.
As President John F. Kennedy stated, “Things do not just happen; they are made to happen.” There has never been an investigation of 9/11 that had not concluded, before it even began, that the Official Story convicting Osama bin Laden and absolving the Administration and the military of complicity of anything worse than “intelligence failures,” which thereby made the outcome a foregone conclusion.
It is time that the men who had the motive, means and the opportunity to commit the terrible crimes of 9/11, and who have profited by it politically as well as financially, be exposed for their role and held to account.
The world has suffered since the horrific acts of Bush and his cronies on 9/11, that being the events of 9/11 and the aftermath, the illegal act of war against Afghanistan and Iraq that has caused the death and injury of hundreds of thousands, including thousands of U.S. troops; the destruction of property and the enormous costs involved.
Saddam was tried, found guilty and sentenced to death after being convicted of murder in the killings of 148 Shiite Muslims from an Iraqi town where assassins tried to kill him in 1982. This number of killings that Saddam Hussein was found guilty of is far less than Bush and his cronies caused to die on 9/11.
The 148 Iraqi deaths for which Saddam was tried pales in number to the 750,000 dead at the hands of George W. Bush as a result of this illegal invasion of that country which includes babies, sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, elderly grandmothers and grandfathers, killed without remorse by George W. Bush and his war profiteering supporters.
Bush continues the war in Iraq to keep the world’s attention there and not on the atrocities caused by him on 9/11, including the possibility of Bush sending up to 40,000 more troops to Iraq, even though a majority of the American people are against this increase.
The world must act now because our own government has failed us. We cannot relent until real justice is reached. Only by exposing the truth of 9/11 and revealing how it was used as the “trigger event” to justify the neocon’s imperial policy can we put these events in proper prospective.”
***
More conspiracy-mongering: A Politico writer speculates that Justice Clarence Thomas distributed Donofrio’s application for conference as some sort of payback for Obama’s opposition to Thomas. Grow up already.
***
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Categories: Barack Obama,Sarah Palin,Truthers
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Now we are getting somewhere.
I could live with a President Pelosi.
The GOP would have 30 years of reign afterwards.
Also of note: Michelle mistakenly cites Berg in her condemnation of “truthers to the right”. Even the most cursory of factchecks yields that Berg is a life-long Democrat.
Sign the Petition to demand he release the Birth Certificate:
PETITION FOR PUBLIC RELEASE OF
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE
Total Signatures So Far: 161,217
On December 5th, 2008 at 3:19 pm, Dexter Alarius said:
The Constitution of the United States says:
It’s up to each of the 50 state legislatures how they choose Electors.
It just so happens that all 50 states currently choose their electors by popular vote in the general election held Nov. 4.
If Obama and/or McCain are found by the SCOTUS to not be Constitutionally eligible, then, in my opinion, the November 4th election results are null and void (at least for the Presidential & VP race) because the ballot contained one or more ineligible candidates.
The Secretary of State in each of the 50 states is guilty of malpractice (or whatever term you want to call it) for not verifying the eligibility of “Barack Hussein Obama II” (also known as “Barry Soetoro”, Muslim Indonesian citizen) before the November 4th election.
Bottom line: How each of the 50 state legislatures addresses this issue and appoints their Electors to the Electoral college is up to them.
This whole thing helps to shine the light on the often-repeated lie of “the USA is a Democracy”…the truth is that the USA is a Constitutional Republic.
A Republic, NOT A Democracy
Michelle, additional information which is addressed by several of the lawsuits in regards to BO’s citizenship is that when he was adopted by Sotoro in Indonesia, and went to school there, he forfitted his American citizenship, and never sued to get it returned. BTW, when he was debating Keyes in the runup for his senate seat, he even admitted that “he wasn’t running for president” when Keyes made the statement “you weren’t even born in America”! What is to stop this man from saying our Constitution is meaningless, because he is now President and was not native born?
For those of you that care this is what a real Hawaii Birth Certificate looks like not the one posted by the minions of Barry Soetero like KOS and the soros factcheck.org.
Notice the blanks are filled in with a typewriter as laser printers had not been invented yet.
Remember when I said we would have a fart tax and some of you laughed? WEEELLLLL…
I don’t think that’s clear at all. Succession refers to the offices that are held, not candidates to those offices.
These slates of electors were picked based on their support of a candidate for President. IMO, if BHO is declared ineligible before the electors meet we are in a Constitutional grey area.
If Biden were put forward as candidate for President, I think there are a whole lot of Democrats that would have a problem with that.
Plus, who would be put forward as the Vice-Presidential candidate for the electors to vote on?
No, it seems to me that Biden would be elected as Vice President, then on 20 January serve as acting President “until a President shall have qualified”, which means to me that a special election would need to be held and the DNC would have to hold an emergency convention to nominate a new Presidential candidate (and VP — which could still be Biden).
What is the ramification of having proof that Obama was NOT born in the US AFTER he takes office? Rather than sweeping this stuff under the rug, we need challenge this now.
This simple fact could be enough grounds for a military coup de tat, to remove the fraudulent president.
What if…
The Vice President, if qualified, moves up to President by succession. He, or she, would then CHOOSE a VP.
There cannot be an emergency convention nor “special election” because there are no provisions in US Law or the Constitution for such a case.
This is the hand of cards we’re dealt. Invalidating Barack Obama for Dual Citizenship would not invalidate the election because we vote for a “ticket”, not individual candidates. The PROCESS is not invalid simply because one participant is. The PROCESS is what it is.
The timeframe for placing a name on the ballot has passed. You can’t legally go back in time, hence, the names remaining on the ticket become the Presidential candidates. As I said, this would be Joe Biden and Sarah Palin. As the “Obama-Biden” ticket won the General Election, it is likely he would be named the President-Elect by the Electoral College when they meet.
It’s really very simple. Biden was the VP-pick. If Obama were to be killed (perish the thought) before the Electoral College met next week, it would MAKE NO DIFFERENCE in the election results. The Obama-Biden ticket STILL WON THE ELECTION. Period. Whether you chose to call him the VP-Elect or POTUS-Elect doesn’t matter. He would still, as the last viable candidate on that ticket, be eventually named POTUS on or after January 20, 2009.
There will be no court-ordered “special election”. That would be “legislating from the bench”. They can, however, invalidate a candidate on Constitutional grounds, and may very will do just that.
This is NOT a Constitutional-crisis, no matter what anyone says. It is merely inconvenient for all parties involved, but ultimately guarantees that the Constitution is (and should be) upheld as the highest law in the land.
Now this is the conspiracy of idiocy.
A mere seven years after 9/11, we have a presidential candidate who:
1) Is NOT Constitutionally eligible to become POTUS
2) Has strong associations with Terrorist Communist Revolutionaries and Anti-Israel Muslims
3) If allowed to usurp the office of POTUS would become Commander-in-Chief of our Armed Forces and could immediately start taking actions that could sabotage and lead to the deaths of those in our Armed Services.
Imagine, if you will, a Muslim Jihadist as Commander-in-Chief, sending our forces into Pakistan and intentionally betraying them by leaking sensitive information to the Pakistani Jihadists.
Oh, by the way, did I mention that Obama/Soetoro travelled to Pakistan in 1981?
If you care about the safety of our troops, you should care about whether or not their Commander-in-Chief is a usurper.
I don’t think that’s correct. I would recommend re-reading Article II, and the 12th, 20th, 22nd and 25th Amendments.
I do not think this is the case. If they have half a brain, there are like me and sitting here in awe of your posts. The information you are giving is very opening at least. The trolls are scared to pipe up at the moment and waiting for you to leave before attempting to counter a single word. Even if they did post it would be something like, “un-uh.”
Keep up the great work! I, for one, am enjoying every word.
Pill, I think you’re heading off into the area that Michelle should have cited as being “way out there”; suggestions that Obama is some kind of an al-Qaeda “Manchurian Candidate”.
On top of everything else, I consider forgery and perjury as “high crimes”.
For example, let’s just say that Obama was born in the U.S. and his father was either Malcolm X or Frank Marshall Davis. Obama, then, would be a Natural Born Citizen, but he would also be guilty of forgery and perjury, and therefore ineligible to be POTUS.
Since this is a “truther” thread…
Who’s Your Daddy?
On December 5th, 2008 at 4:18 pm, purplepeep said:
There is sufficient evidence to believe that, and Soetoro/Obama has done everything in his power to suppress all evidence of his past.
A mere seven years after 9/11, I am shocked at how flippantly people treat this.
Do you really believe that Obama wasn’t supported by any Jihadist money when he disabled credit card security on his web site?
Wake up, Neo…
You’re making a self-contradictory argument, Pill. If it’s top secret, how did you find out Obama is in reality a “stealth jihadist”?
But the bigger problem is that such fantasies take away from the actual core question serious folks are sensibly pointing out and discussing here.
Purple,
re #190:
I see it as somewhat worse than that.
what she said, in part — to set up her parallelism is:
Which she compares to doctored images of a Certificaton of Live Birth.
And:
So, to hang us, her loyal readers and of whom she’s said on occasion she considers “friends”, we have the following parallel:
photos and video of a pregnant Palin = doctored *images* of documents NOT equal to a Birth Certificate.
I repeat:doctored *images* of documents.
So, where the heck does she get off saying:
PLEASE! Give me some plain truth! She’s callin’ in from the Straight Talk Express!
So, which should I say:
Call Dan Rather? Hey Dan, all’s forgiven!
or
I’ve just been “My Friend(tm)”-ed?
You know, originally I was willing to just assume (perhaps naively, I admit…) that Ears McCoy *was* as a citizen.
When I read he’d put an image of the Cert. of Live Birth, (yep, he’s breathing!…) up on his site, I thought we could forget it. After all, who would try to slip that kind of fast one past the American People, right?
After finding out it was taken down and the image had been doctored, I thought, who would do that? Doctoring the image smacks of Clinton’s strategy of preemption… And why refuse to allow its study?
As to whether we have the Right to see it: when we hire employees we can insist they submit to a blood test, if the job requires it. As you’ve pointed out, it is criminal to hire someone not a citizen. I have to supply my birth cert. if I get a job, or some other equal form of ID, or my employer’s up the creek (assuming we follow our laws…).
POTUS requires Citizenship. The final check & balance is We The People, not a friendly news agency or a friendly governer. We are. They’ve put it off in friendly courts through “standing”, which I am certain was an incorrect judgement, (because of We are the final check…). There is really no objective proof that Kite Ears actually *is* a citizen. Show me a piece. And if the claim is the announcement… well, I know of many more instances where what happen with Tom happened to others. if that is “…some inconsequential discrepancy to seize on…” then ALL discrepancies are inconsequential, here and in the RatherGate, and everywhere else. It strike at its heart. And that is just one. It almost seems like she wants a NYT’s commentor’s spot.
It is completely unlike Palin’s situation, where we could compare and therefore find the truth. There wasn’t an “oops! moment” where they put a phony picture up and then “corrected” it. We have no point of reference, so what else has been altered in those images that isn’t as obvious as the seal was?
So, because the 1st thing from out his “mouth” was a lie, I require proof that things are as they have been stated. Unfortunately, at this point I’m afraid that it means a forensic lab.
The Great Pumpkin has no one to blame but himself for that, though. If he had simply been honest and released it early on we wouldn’t have to go to that length. He was trying to be witty, but failed by half.
All this, and yet, MM says that:
a doctored document, removed, with assurances that the next one was real with no other objective proof = a mountain of photos, videos some of which were taken by the MSM themselves, (and therefore beyond Palin-friendly doctoring)!
Purple: you know if any of the Trolls here said that you’d not be as kind as you are with MM. You call a spade a spade, not a shovel. And so do I. At the very least she owes us an appology *and* an explanation. What she did was calculated to insult, her words — which I think you’ll admit she has facility with — drip venom. Where in the posts here did anyone do something to deserve that? She’s railed against McCain for backstabbing, so why indulge herself?
As to its importance we have this, from The Bulletin:
No matter what you think of The Bulletin, the man’s reasoning is sound, and I have quite a few friends, (and 2 brothers…) who are Lawyers and they could see it coming down that way. And a few of these people are actually good lawyers.
Arrg! I guess I’ll just have to live with MM as my new “My Friend!(tm)“
Obama may be a Manchurian Candidate of the Weathermen, the “Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers”, and still be a legally born US citizen.
I’d be more interested in whether he ever actually travelled abroad on a foreign passport, as some rumors suggest.
“Truthers to the left of me, truthers to the right”
and we are gladly stuck in the middle with Michelle!!!
Steelers Wheel tune if you can remember that far back…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy6cqFIljQo&feature=related
But here’s the problem with that – at the time of Obama’s birth, the requirement for a US citizen to pass citizenship to their child required that they reside in the USA for 5 years from the age of 14. Obama’s mother could not confer US citizenship on her child since she was only 18 at the time.
Yes, but that has to be PROVEN… I.E. that she was only 18… with a Birth Certificate for Stanley Ann Dunham.
That was part of the core of Berg’s lawsuit, which asked for ALL of Obama’s records in one fell swoop. By the laws of 1961, Berg is correct. Also at that time, if she was only 17, Obama would be considered a “ward of the state” and would have automatic US Citizenship.
This gets to the core of my argument about the difference in names stated on the COLB from Hawaii versus the August 13, 1961 newspaper announcement. Were they married, and if so, would that have conferred US Citizenship on Barack Obama Sr at the time of marriage?
How do ya like them apples?
Still… that wouldn’t keep Junior from being a Dual Citizenship person. I just thought I’d throw that out for fun.
I wonder if MM will correct the factual errors in her post…
While I’ve been coming here there hasn’t been any incidents of errors on MM’s part.
Does anyone know if she (1) corrects her errors,(1b) displays corrections prominently or (2) lets them slide, like on Buckly jrs?
Since she seems to rarely make them, there might not be a mechanisim in place to account for factual errors…
I think his refusal to release his birth certificate probably would indicate he was born here…but I’ll bet you there is SOMETHING on their he doesnt want people to see.
Just a hunch.
I’m just jumping in here, having read MM’s blog post and a few of the recent comments. But does the fact that Obama’s mother can’t “confer” citizenship on her child mean he would only be a citizen of the country in which he was born? I guess that brings us back to whether or not he was born in Hawaii.
P.S. Michelle, I’m surprised at your tone on this one, too. This is not an unreasonable request for the American people to know they are electing one of their own. If he is not eligible for the presidency, and yet is allowed a pass on providing this basic form of evidence to support it, then perhaps in 4 years we’ll be able to vote for Putin or Chavez. Not trying to be sarcastic, just earnest. The rest of us must show our birth certificates in order to get a driver’s license, passport, and other important documents. This is perhaps the most important time when this evidence would be necessary, and it should not be taking this long to resolve what should be a very simple matter.
O/T, can he legally be impeached/removed from an office for which he is later found not eligible, if he is allowed to assume this role?
My favorite point is that there’s simply no way the Framers of the Constitution would have EVER allowed someone with British Citizenship to be considered for the Presidency, given what they endured at the hands of the Redcoats.
My fear is that SCOTUS will look at the possible social and civil ramifications of this decision; they may decide to say BHO is a natural-born citizen just to forestall any rioting. That would be the safe choice, not the correct one.
The fact is, and it has been said earlier in this post, there is no constitutional crisis. If SCOTUS determines that BHO is not a natural-born citizen, this would show the world that we believe in our constitution and will uphold it, no matter the cost.
I do believe that’s what freedom means.
You know, whle talking to our nieces again, we talked abt the election. This was both prior to and just post election day, and because of the hullabaloo I wound up covering the same ground with a few just of voting age and a few more who have time yet.
I think I understand the POV (the emotionally based one) many had, or told me classmates/ friends have. I sometimes feel the same way: confused, dispondent, and angry in a way such that I want to wash my hands of the whole thing and say: “Go ahead do whatever — things are so messed up we’ll never unknot it, anyway.”
Luckly, I’m not a spring chicken anymore, so I can over ride emotion with thought. But youngsters can’t & the emotional tumoult leaves them open to the manipulation we’ve witnessed in this election.
Here we have a “Conservative Champion” who ballyhoos “The Rule of Law”, yet is willing to toss out a point of the Metalaw; that is, The Law which is the framework out all other laws rest in and derive their base life from. By that I of course mean the Constitution. We slammed our metaphorical fist on the desk, the fabled Veins of Stamina on our neck pulsing, and roared in basso-profundo: “The Law Must Be Obeyed, Even When It Isn’t Popular!”
But, it seems we didn’t believe it, because when it gets rocky, our leaders fold. MM here, for example. She didn’t really study the particulars. FactCheck is owned by Annnberg… you know, those guys who are owned by Aires, and employed Obama. That the original image of the CLB was altered isn’t in question, because at the very least Obama’s people admitted it *was*, “accidently” altered, adding an image of the HI state seal. Oops. I just strayed into tinhat — sorry!
This next one is the Real Deal, though, by gum! youbetcha!
We The People are the final check on lawlessness and tyranny. If you insist on following that some *actually* written in the document, you’re a,… a,… Truther!
We send mixed signals, and lack consistancy. No wonder they young gravitate to a charismatic empty sack.
I know that an earlier commenter here has already left a link to Texas Darlin, but it bears repeating for the newcomers. Dr. Kate has written a piece there that is a must read.
“Stand By Me” — probably the most cogent, simple explanation and analysis of this issue I’ve read thus far.
I encourage you to read it. Well worth your time. She’s someone who knows what she’s talking about.
ASK
With seals on every document verifying who ‘Obambi might or might not be – I don’t feel it’s unreasonable to request he produce something/anything to prove who he is.
Of interest to me is the comparison between the left/right blogosphere. The questions were first raised by those supporting Hillary and feeling something just wasn’t quite right about the primary elections…this seemed to evolve into the question of legitimacy to hold office. While those seriously questioning this have done months of intensive research and dug through tons of articles looking for clues, most have spoken with reason and simply stated their case. The right blogs have called anyone asking these questions names, degraded their integrity, thrown around “net” insults (tinfoil/truthers), and generally affirmed everything said of us before the election. How did we switch places?
Radiopatriot #233
Went over and read the article and promptly sent it out to about 50 people, including my own local Republican party leaders. Yes, that site is mainly reformed/disappointed Hillary supporters and when they decided to get behind Palin they did so with complete sincere conviction. Compliments and well wishes to them in their tenacity to find the truth.
Exactly. Did he travel on an Indonesian Passport when he went to Pakistan?
Sullivan’s sanity is questioned here:
http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2008/12/andrew-sullivans-x-files-obsession-of-sarah-palins-pregnancy/
It’s interesting that there seems to be no offical way that is required to assure people you are eligible. Seems like something that should be codified.
Maybe it’s just me, but I was born in a place where my parents were not native. My birth there is to me precious and I would shed blood for that place – and anyone telling me I wasn’t “natural born” would have a problem. If he was born in the US, I cannot see him being ineligible unless as an adult he gave up that birthright. As a minor he had no control over his parents getting him Indonesian citizenship. Using Indonesian citizenship as an adult is the only thing I can think of that gets him into trouble.
Not trying to start an argument with anyone, just my thoughts at the moment.
The case, Donofrio v. Wells has nothing to do with the issue of a Birth Certificate. The fact is, Leo has never said that Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii. What Leo’s suit is stating is that Obama, McCain and Calero are not “Natural Born” Citizens. I question Leo’s reasoning regarding McCain, as although he was born on foreign soil his parents were/are American Citizens. However, in the case of Calero, on the Socialist Ticket, he was born in Nicaragua, to foreign parents, on foreign soil.
In Obama’s case, although he was born in Hawaii, only his mother was an American Citizen and his father, was a citizen of the United Kingdom as a Kenyan. Kenya was a British colony at the time of Obama’s birth in 1961. This citizenship was conferred to Obama by U.K. law. Further to this case is the apparent fact that Obama became a citizen of Indonesia, when he lived there as a child with his mother and adoptive father, Lolo Soetoro. This would mean Obama’s U.S. Citizenship status was revoked, since Indonesia had no dual-citizenship provision with the U.S.A. This information is also posted on Obama’s own Fight the Smears website here: http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate by his own admission.
The entire point behind the law suit is a constitutional issue and the clause stipulated that in order to become President one must be a “Natural Born” citizen and have no split loyalties to another country. A question to ponder regarding split loyalties, Why would Obama go to Kenya to campaign for his cousin Odigna? If this issue is not resolved, this leaves open a Pandora’s box for anyone to qualify as President. Think about the repercussions.
Michelle,
Special request.
Please ask Bryan Preston to examine the “techdude” analysis of the Obama COLB and give us his opinion in your “Related” column.
For those who have not seen the analysis it’s at:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html
Hey guys!
Thinking abt it, MM says she believes the “scanned” certs…
Well, Dr. Ron Polarik, PhD. This is his livelyhood, and no, the guy who was “debunked” was a phony… (he goes on to demonstrate the debunked guy’s resume and proof-of-expertise were poor forgeries! lol!)
He’s at
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2136816/posts
He goes into detail, (approx 637kb blog post of detail…) showing how the Obie cert absolutly *must* be a forgery! (tip: the kiss-of-death was using a HI seal from the wrong year![huummm Michelle, Whats your crystal ball say to fix that?])
AND, a bonus: he even tells you how to replicate it!
Thats right Folks! Flood ebay with “Offical Obama Comemmerative Cert.s Of Live Birth”! Why let Obie take *all* the change! Get some’o that bling fo youself!
Only 1 point I’m confused on…
Why in the world would someone go through that complex process if there was no “there” there?
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Well, the steam is about gone… but it subtracts *nothing* from the points I’ve brought up. I worry: will any conservative leaders remain standing at the end of this?
Anyone who feels ill used by my comments or tone tonight, I truely am sorry. I calm & reasoned discussion on this subject would be very nice, but as happened w/amnesty, the muckety-mucks are painting us w/tar again… Unfortunately this time it seems to includes Rightside Talkshow hosts & major bloggers & sites joining the Lefties.
I believe Obama’s refusal to release any of his college records are part of the cover-up of the fact that he is not a natural born US citizen. In these records I believe you will find him listed as a foreign student with citizenship other than the USA. It’s incredible that there were no real demands for him to release these records as Bush, Gore, Kerry and others have. The records may also reveal embarrassingly low grades, affirmitive action information and a thesis he doesn’t want made public, along with who paid for the mega-buck education he got.
He got away with hiding whatever he wated with barely a peep from the MSM.
That would have been Chester Arthur not FDR. And it was Arthur’s father that was a Citizen of Ireland not Canada. His mother was from Vermont and they moved to Canada prior to Arthur’s birth and moved back to Vermont 4 years prior to Chester’s birth. History on Chester is vague, as he burned most of his documents. Kind of like Obama, hmm.
For reference see here
Here is a truth you might enjoy reading
http://thecitytroll.blogspot.com/2008/12/leadership-of-republican-party-are.html
You do realize that there are plenty out there who look into the eyes of their Creator and say “You don’t exist”.
Great, I’m thinking Obama is Carter II, and now I discover he’s Chester Arthur II? How much can a guy take?
The Swiftboat Veterans For Truth got together to counter a bucketful of lies being presented as facts about and by Senator Kerry.
I think that must be how the term “truthers” originated.
Now the left complains about “swiftboating” as if it is an underhanded and dishonest slime tactic, the exact opposite of why they came forward.
If they are “truthers”, than so am I proudly!
This tactic is used primarily to deflect any, and all criticism.
ie: “Fight the Smears!”
I don’t like adopting lefty lingo though, which is just invented name calling for the most part.
However, this eligibility question cannot go away anymore as too many people will continue to doubt his legitimacy, and if he is found to be an usurper there will be a crisis!
If there is civil unrest caused by his being exposed, it is due to his attempt to disregard the Constitution.
I would not want a government that permitted that to happen much less the illegitimate Commander in Chief who engineered it!
1. Why post an image of the Certificate of Live Birth on the DailyKos? That is a very strange venue for the Obama campaign to use. Why would a presidential campaign that has its own website rely on DailyKos?
2. “Corvo”, a very frequent commenter on DailyKos, had written at 10 am: I’m sure that every forgery includes a note that essentially says “Hey! I’m a forgery!”
At 01:27:12 PM PDT, some three hours later, under the subject “!!!” and without any further comment, OpenDNA (AKA Jay McKinnon) posts a crop of his Haye I.B Ahphorgerie image.
The “Haye I.B Ahphorgerie” COLB image is clearly a forgery. So why is it ‘truther’ territory to assume the same thing could have been done with the posted ‘Obama COLB image’?
3. Sarah Hussein Obama has stated on audiotape that she was present when Obama was born in Kenya. We have an eyewitness stating that Obama was born in location A, and no eyewitness’ regarding his being born at location B. So of course we should believe he was born in location B? Why? There were of course potential witnesses to the birth in Hawaii, and given the kind of money TMZ or People Magazine would give for such a story, it is strange none have come forward. Madelyn Dunham was one such potential witness, but all access was denied by the Obama campaign. Hospital records? Access denied. Birth certificate? Access denied. Coast Provincial Hospital records, in Mombasa, Kenya? Access denied.
4. Hawaii issues COLB’s to those not born in the state as provided for by law.
§338-5 Compulsory registration of births. Within the time prescribed by the department of health, a certificate of every birth shall be substantially completed and filed with the local agent of the department in the district in which the birth occurred, by the administrator or designated representative of the birthing facility, or physician, or midwife, or other legally authorized person in attendance at the birth; or if not so attended, by one of the parents.
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
5. Maya Kassandra Soetoro-Ng has a COLB issued by the state of Hawaii. There is no dispute that she was born in Indonesia. The statement that the Hawaiian official made regarding Obama birth certificate being ‘on record’ could just as easily be made about Maya’s. That doesn’t mean Maya was born is Hawaii any more than it means Obama was born there.
6. Róger Calero was the Socialist Workers Party candidate who ran for President. He was born in Nicaragua. This demonstrates rather clearly that someone who is obviously not eligible can run for the Presidency.
This is not ‘truther’ territory!
Birth certificate doesn’t matter. Indonesian citizenship doesn’t matter.
SCOTUS must decide if Dual Citizenship=Natural Born Citizen, given the unique phrasing in the Constitution.
There is no question that Barack Obama II had Dual Citizenship at birth. If he once held British Citizenship by birth, then he can always reapply for it. His British Citizenship transferred to a Kenyan Citizenship, which was valid until 1982. He could not EVER have been a Kenyan Citizen unless (1) he was born in Kenya or (2) he had British Citizenship by birth AND had a British-Kenyan father. When Obama Sr’s citizenship changed, so did Obama Jr’s. If Obama Jr WAS a full-blown Kenyan citizen until 1982 then he HAD to have been considered a “British subject” once in the eyes of immigration law.
Pertaining to my earlier “Was Dunham married to Obama” post, if a child is born to a US Citizen, and a Person of Dual Citizenship, one being US, the other British, can he be “Natural-Born” AND “Dual Citizen” at the same time? That is definitely one for SCOTUS to decide!
The rise of trutherism in its various forms rather suspiciously coincides with the decline of the Flat Earth Society. Oviously, much of its former membership must have gone into political punditry.
As one of the token gays who comment here… I can’t understand Sullivan’s infatuation with Palin’s womb. Believe me, a woman’s uterus and its attendant parts don’t interest me (or most gay men) all that much.
Earth to Sully – the election is over.
Seeing as how Sully thinks that the Palins deserve no privacy then, perhaps, he has reconsidered his objections to the outing of his various online adventures?
He used to be interesting.
As far as Barry’s birth certificate – who cares? It’s a moot point. Too late. (I’m with Michelle on this – he was born on US soil).
It does seem odd to me that candidates (apparently) aren’t required to prove eligibility on filing for a spot on the ballot. What would happen if, say, Iowa required anyone filing for a spot on the presidential ballot to prove their age and birth status?
Michelle,
About that request in comment 241. Please change it to the link in 242.
The commenter in 242 gave a link that put down some of “techdude’s” good sounding points. Then during a 3 hour read provides even more reasons to believe the Obama COLB is false.
The issue begs official resolution.
Even the bono fide article would need to pass very stringent testing to be believable now.
I sincerely doubt that Obama won’t be a legal President. However, if it does come to pass, that he is not eligible, Biden doesn’t not become President. He cannot succeed someone who never took the Oath of Office. More than likely,(and this is at 4:30am on my first cup of coffee) Bush will remain President, until the House votes a successor, or something akin to a special election is held. Reminds me of the 1800 election that nearly put us into a civil war. There will be one heckava fight, pleasing the msm to no end. You are always going to have far left and far right radicals. Unfortunately, in this age of mass information, they will always have a stage.
I hav to agree w/your thoughts here concerning an Obie disqual. I believe n that case Bidet will moveup. Those thinking this will flip the WH are (in my opinion) almost certainly wrong.
You know, the more research I do, the more I suspect that The Jackalope-Elect wasn’t (1) born in HI and/or (2) is a Citizen according to the laws in force at the time of his birth.
Now personally, I think #2 would be found irrelevent, as there’ve been severl changes to law that grandfatherd in various groups… but no, I haven’t run down all the applicable laws yet. I’m extra-CONUS & resources where I am are v.limited… & I don’t have my Dad’s & my notes, which are extensive. Running down stuff I remembr is pretty time consuming on a PDA. It took hrs to re-find the link I posted in #242, for exampl.
Part of my job is to detect patterns frm scant data. I am good at my job, & from the actions of the Obie-run “truth machine”, incl. Annenberg’s FactCheck.org, & what has been both admitted to, hard data released by Obie & friends, and his actions to suppress all documentation related to his early life, if ordered to prepare a report I’d have to say that bar a factual revelation the guy is not a citizen. I guess I need a tin-hat, but in my work you rarely get *all* the data. In this case there’s actually more data than we usually have to go on.
How this will play out, I have no idea – I really don’t want to go there. The worst-case,SCOTUS could pull a stupid (like the EPA ruling…) & punt. There seems to be a bunch of ways they could do that, & a few of those, in a couple of years would cause a Constituional Crisis. Since the habit lately has been short-term thinking, I have no confidence that those options, being least painful short-term, won’t be the ones chosen. Sad…
My beef is people on our side “going native” the way Rush described the “conservative columnist” at the NYT doing. CINO.
MM going wobbly would break my heat.
Michelle, have you forgotten that the sealed portions of Jack and Jeri Ryan’s divorce papers were order unsealed by court order? BHO’s rise to power probably wouldn’t have happened without that court order made in response to the Chicago Tribune and LA Times carping about the information being ‘in the public’s interest’.
Back then, Judge Shneider remarked:
I think that the need to know for certain whether or not a president elect meets a constitutional requirement is more than several notches higher in importance than the need to know what a woman alleged about her husband while believing that no one but a judge would ever see it.
There’s a goose / gander thing going on for BHO’s birth records when you consider the precedent set by the Ryan divorce papers. Hopefully, Justice Clarence Thomas will write for the majority decision declaring BHO ineligible:
If this ain’t in the public’s interest then what is?
self-edit:
MM going wobbly would break my heat
should be:
MM going wobbly would break my heart
After re-reading the MM post for this thread today, and all the comments, I have come to this conclusion:
There is no one Conservatives should trust & rely on for research and the formulation of cogent arguments. We all need to do all the research and formulation individually everytime for every incident. This needs to be the case reguardless of the difficulties it will place us under with our already crowded lives.
When even someone as clever and (doubtlessly) good-intentioned as MM can set up such an astoundingly shallow and stupid strawman argument as she did in her post, it shows she can’t be trusted w/o each of us putting everything she says under a magnifying glass — testing each concept, and discarding the chaff.
I dont impune her w/bad intent here guys, but re-read her arguments, *carefully*. Ad hominin attacks, false parallels, ad authority falacies, and a whole lot more… Don’t listen to me! Do the work yourselves, and come to your own conclusions! Thats my point!
Too many of us, (and I really *do* count myself in this…) because of our busy lives have been using MM, Limbaugh, Beck, Hannty, Levin, et al as crutches.
We each of us, need to forge ourselves in the mould of the Founding Fathers — to become, to the extent we’re able by our talents & gifts, as well-educated, clear-thinking, Liberty loving as they.
This should serve as warning: as long as we rely on others to do *our* work, we’re in danger. Who among us is immune to error?
If we follow, we can be mislead. If we lead, enough of us will be correct that it will safeguard Liberty!
Again, I don’t accuse MM of anything here but astoundingly bad judgement in her arguments (demonstrable) and her tone (my opinion). But lets take that and learn from it… whether you agree w/me or not about this incident, my point about the Constitutional Movement is true.
But decide yourself.
G’night, all!
Re: Mike Musculus #258
I’m a regular listener of Glenn Beck who repeatedly begs his listeners to do their own homework, search for the truth. He warns he might not still be on the air a year from now (that’s ominous…) and urges listeners to “study the Constitution and our history”. To “Know what we stand for, gang. It’s our responsibility and duty as citizens.” In other words, don’t let others do your thinking for you. KNOW WHAT WE STAND FOR.
The reluctance of the Big Talkers to discuss this Obama eligibility issue and their silence is deafening. Now, add the dismissive disdain coming from some otherwise rational, clear thinking and (ahem) BIG name, highly visible on Fox TV bloggers, and it prompts suspicion (imagine if they had done same re: Swiftboat vets, TANG, et al?).
Leading one wonder, did they all get “a phone call”? Just askin’…
ASK
One last thing before I put this to rest…
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/why_the_barack_obama_birth_cer.html
I **really** wish they wouldn’t test the base loudspeakers after bedtime…
—} … sigh … {—
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Radiopatriot:
re: #s 259 & 260
Yes, I’m a member of Rush Limbaugh’s, Glenn Beck’s, Shaun…
Well you get the idea [grin]…
yeah, and I’ve read that Joe Farmer piece, too. Did you know there was a comments section for it? I was tracking the comments, and I had posted a few, too. There was a very civil and interesting discussion growing attached to that piece.
Its gone now, and no explanation…
Then there’s Beck, who actually called Obie’s posted image (the image proved, by a couple of independent experts to be fradulent) a birth certificate, (which, even if it was genuine, it was not…) and pronouncing it genuine and saying the seal proved it. Then calling us who pointed out that there were 2 facts, imporant ones, that needed answering; unAmerican or unpatriotic or bad Americans!
He wouldn’t say as much abt those backstabbing troops, but he said it about us. Then the snotty “a few pixels” comment here. How do you think they prove forgery, anyway? And the missing backgrnd behind the lettering wasn’t standing alone. These raise questions that the weak arguments won’t smooth out.
I was frankly shocked at the weakness of MM’s arguments in this post — it is completely out of character, unless I’ve simply misread her character. Abt 1/2 the anger in my posts on this is at myself, that I might have let myslf be gulled.
Mike,
I re-read MM’s post carefully and found no evidence of any such shallowness or stupidity. Please re-post with specific examples.
The sun doesn’t rise and set on Michelle Malkin, and I would guess that she’d be the first to admit that. None of us should become MM groupies, as if she was some worship-worthy WWF Smackdown queen. In my mind, it just goes without saying that every post from every blog (or TV news/newspaper/radio…) should be scrutinized for truth and accuracy. MM provides a very valuable service by shining light on “Truthers”, in this case. Didn’t you see that she was arguing against the mis-guided actions of those on both the left and the right? Are you saying that there are some blogs where you don’t test each concept and discard the chaff??? No, instead we must adopt the attitude of the “noble Bereans” of Acts 17:11…
Of course we should examine and test MM’s content. I’m sure that she would want us to do no less and to let her know where we think she went wrong. I know that I would want this if I ran a blog.
Again, provide examples. Help me to see.
You really go off the track here. If we of the right are using the conservative media for a crutch, then the left (whose growing members are threatening to swamp the right) is using the MSM as crack cocaine.
Amen to that.
Couldn’t Michelled Malkin be one of those liberty-loving patriots whom God raised up in the mold of the Founders? Michelle sounds exactly like the type of person you describe as the model of behavior which we should emulate. Why do you try to shoot her down? In every movement their are leaders and followers. It must be so. There must be some kind of hierarchy of leadership if anything is to get done. We are not all Generals. That doesn’t mean that the lower “ranks” should blindly follow orders, at least in this type of army. I don’t see anything wrong with Michelle having this blog. If you care enough about what goes on here, how much time do you spend over at Kos and other moonbat blogs telling them the same thing. I would like you to reply to this post with links to such posts in leftist blogs. I’m guessing that you won’t be able to do this.
Radiopatriot:
BTW:
Beck’s msg abt self-sufficency isn’t new to me. Nor is learning the Constitution and thoughts of the Founding Fathers. Both are points of doctrine in the LDS Church. We are commanded to learn these things. We believe God raised up those men to create a Nation that Religious Liberty could shelter in, and that the Constitution is (quite literally) a Heavenly Banner. Oh, BTW– when Beck asks if someone thinks the “..Constitution [is] hanging by a thread…”, that is a reference to several Prophecies by Joseph Smith jr and Brigham Young.
An ancient Prophet, Moroni, wrote abt “secret combinations” and prenders grabbing the levers of government, destroying the people of that time.
He said it would happen again – here in America, and described the process in horrific detail as a warning for these latter-days. Now we see *everthing* coming to pass, in detail that correlates so closely that it causes me to fear. **Everything** was described, incl amnesty, the explosion of laws and lawyers, percecutions, the Cult of The Great Leader, the cries of: “those shouting warnings are nuts”, “Oh, Mr.Tinhat! That can’t happen *here*!”, and more.
I know things are in The Lord’s hands, but there is going to be an exceedingly great amount of pain to go around.
Another thing we’re taught is that whenever we give up a Right granted by God, to get it back requires a blood sacrifice. Such as our own securing Liberty, or the Civil War. If we actually lose our Liberty, taking on the Yolk of Slavery to the state, thereby becoming an actual Social State, it will require blood sacrifice to regain our Liberty. I pray it doesn’t get that far!
Well! They’re done claxon-ing, (yipee!) so I can hit the sack now! Good night and have a good day!
Why did obamma give a copy to fact check.org, Michelle?
Jet:
I submitted what I thought was the last comment of my night and scanned yours.
2 things:
1.) I have in the past been among the 1st to defend MM. you might like to search on my screen name so you can verify that.
However, when someone writes a piece where they have unlimited space to make a point, (its her site, afterall…) and makes 1/2baked arguments, I’m going to call them on it. Plus the tone was uncalled for, here among those she’s called “loyal readers”.
We don’t have the luxury of huge space to lay points out, (though she is generous…), so I cut more slack for commenters than for her.
2.) my posts at Kos & other sites: yep, there aren’t any links. You have heard of “banning”, right?
I’ve been B&D-ed (B*anned & D*eleted) at so many Lefty sites I’ve decided my handle next time will be “Temporary Commentor” to save them the work of allowing someone else to use an old unused handle.
Now, really! I’ve got a meeting w/the base commander at breakfast! Good night & have a good weekend!
On December 5th, 2008 at 4:36 pm, purplepeep said:
It’s not “self-contradictory” at all.
1) Barack Hussein Obama II (also known as Indonesian citizen Barry Soetoro) is one of the most “undocumented” Presidential Candidates in history:
2) Despite his blatant betrayal of his promise to be “open, honest, and transparent“, there is still sufficient evidence in the public record for a reasonable person to believe that Obama is both a Crypto-Marxist and Crypto-Jihadist. Ignore the warning signs at your own peril. Don’t claim later that no one “connected the dots”.
Obama talked a good talk about transparency, but “We the People” expect more than “words, just words”.
Be a man of your word, Barry. Walk the walk.
Mike,
Thanks for you gracious response. I know you’ve been fair on this blog. I guess what set me off was your comment about those of us who read conservative blogs are cripples needing crutches and the statement about MM’s vitriolic attacks.
I, for one, am sick of “restraint”. When the leftists are using every dirty trick to get their way, it gets harder and harder to “play fair”. We’ve seen the Republican “leadership” play fair, in the face of in-your-face power grabs. Somehow the leftists’ hypocrisy is excused, but every conservative/Republican perceived slight is magnified in the MSM to a crucifiable sacrilege. The Republicowards knees go weak, they pee their pants, and give in – EVERY DAMN TIME. The Dems never “reach across the aisle” but only use slick lawyer tricks and naked demagoguery to seize whatever power they want. The Reps’ across-aisle-reaches are hat-in-hand pleasy-please-please don’t-take-the-football-away-before-I-kick-it-for-the-nth+1-time, sellouts of the Conservative movement. I’m sick of it. And I thought the Democreeps were the “limp-wristed” party. I gave some money to the Republican campaign simply and only because Sarah Palin was on the ticket. If she or someone just like her isn’t the nominee in 2012, not one Republican candidate will get my vote nor will they get my money. I’ve had it with these opportunistic, pandering, vote/money grubbing, RINO Repugnantcans. They are exactly like the Scott noblemen in the movie “Braveheart” who sold out William Wallace to the English in exchange for entitlements, property, position, and riches.
So you can see that I’m a little sensitive about certain things.
Anyway, thanks again for responding.
Have a great wkend, too, and God Bless you for your service to our Country!
Yeah, because Michelle is an honest person. George Washington was an honest person too but it didn’t help the cherry tree. Show me a person who never made a mistake? Geesh whizakurs…
MM going wobbly broke my heart.
Kathleen Parker and Peggy Noonan can now have quite the hen party wth
Michelle. Together with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, McSame and the rest of the RINOs, they can have the “If You Can’t Beat ‘Em, Join ‘Em” party.
Dances,
I couldn’t tell if you were agreeing with me, but that GW cherry tree incident is a myth.
You reminded me of a joke that my dad told me years ago (below).
Regards…
These two country boys, brothers, were knocking around one lazy summer day and thought it would be a good prank to push over the outhouse. They crept up from an advantageous direction like a couple of commandos, pushed the outhouse over on one side and headed for the woods.
They circled round and returned to camp an hour later from a completely different direction thus, trying to divert suspicion from themselves.
Upon returning, their father approached them with switch in hand and bellowed, “Did you two push the outhouse over this afternoon?
” The older boy replied, “As learned in school, I cannot tell a lie. Yes, Father, we pushed over the outhouse this afternoon.”
At this revelation, the farmer proceeded to flail the two boys severely and sent them to bed without supper.
In the morning, the two boys meekly approached the breakfast table and took their seats. Everything was quiet until their father finally said, “Have you two learned your lesson?”
“Sure, Dad!” said the big brother, “But, in school we learned that George Washington admitted to HIS father that he’d chopped down a cherry tree and he was forgiven because he told the truth.”
“Ah yes!’ said the farmer, “BUT, George’s DAD, wasn’t in the cherry tree when he chopped it down!!!”
Does anyone have knowledge or comment on the assertion ( read elsewhere today )that the Twin Towers where built to with stand the impact of a Boeing 707 becuse of the plane incident with the ESB in the 40s ? Any comments or clarifacation would be greatly appreciated .
none of this matters if the gooberment continues on its merry way and accepts what dear leader has to say. The MSM makes light of any story bringing up dear leaders questionable past and in fact last night on CNN (Campbell Brown) basically called it very strange that lawsuits had even been brought forth, and Jeffrey Toobin (<-spelling??) said it was a joke in so many words. Until their is some actual journalism and real investigation into this by someone in the government with some honest and open eyes, it’ll be just another internet conspiracy theory borne mostly of tin hat foil wearing nut cases…For me there are just far too many unanswered questions about his past…I had to go through far more scrutiny to gain a military clearance….
Dear Tired of it
A very good explanation (which was posted here as a link a few comments up) can be read at:
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/12/05/stand-by-me/#comment-27587
tiredofit,
Yep. It’s just another example of the left’s cavalier disregard for the rule of law.
Robroy,
I poked around and found this on Wikipedia here
Regards…
How long does it matter anyway? They are tearing up the Constitution one small step at a time.
We all know that in order to get to a One World government, they HAVE TO TEAR DOWN AMERICAN NATIONALISM. Just as they tore down the individual European countries nationalisms.
They are setting up acquiescence and capitulation by all parties in order for them to create the North American Union. While the continents are being merged together, slowly the top Unions will band together into larger Unions.
We’re not talking years or a couple of decades here. National and International strategies are on the order of 50-75 years and are looking to the future, centuries from now.
Its not a conspiracy thoery and I’m not saying its a bad thing either. Just research it. In the end the power structure will be “Socialist” so you have a few generations to get your family to the top of the power structure. My kids are idiots and they dont have a grasp of what is occuring to them, so I dont have to worry about where my grandkids and so on will fall.
On December 6th, 2008 at 2:39 pm, Jet Jaguar said:
On December 6th, 2008 at 2:01 pm, Robroy said:
Does anyone have knowledge or comment on the assertion ( read elsewhere today )that the Twin Towers where built to with stand the impact of a Boeing 707 becuse of the plane incident with the ESB in the 40s ? Any comments or clarifacation would be greatly appreciated .
Robroy,
I poked around and found this on Wikipedia here
Regards…
Aircraft impact
The structural engineers on the project also considered the possibility that an aircraft could crash into the building. In July 1945, a B-25 bomber that was lost in the fog had crashed into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building. A year later, another airplane nearly crashed into the 40 Wall Street building, and there was another near-miss at the Empire State Building.[60] In designing the World Trade Center, Leslie Robertson considered the scenario of the impact of a jet airliner, the Boeing 707, which might be lost in the fog, seeking to land at JFK or at Newark.[61] NIST found a three page white paper that mentioned another aircraft impact analysis, involving impact of a jet at 600 mph (970 km/h), was indeed considered, but the original documentation of the study was lost when Port Authority offices were destroyed in the collapse of the World Trade Center.[62] In 1993, John Skilling recalled doing the analysis, and remarked, “The building structure would still be there.”[63] However, he gave little thought to how the structure would behave in an intense fire that would result from an aircraft impact. They simply assumed that the World Trade Center’s trusses and columns would perform as well as the heavy masonry and steel structure in the Empire State Building.[64]
Thanks Jag !
Nice relevant comments – NOT!
To quote Michelle Malkin:
It seems to me that the fire was the thing that weakened the towers enough to cause collapse. The structures obviously withstood an impact much greater than a 707 and remained standing. My theory is that the thermal expansion of the joists was a major factor to both initiate outer column buckling and also disengage floor connections to some columns thus lowering their Euler limit.
It wasn’t me!
Say what you want about Obama’s constitutional issue but tell me where the following have been done.
1) Who has actually vetted him for his constitutionality to be a valid president? No one that I know of.
2) Has anyone seen his birthcertificate, not is live birth birth certificate which only means he got to Hawaii within a year of his birth?
3) Why is Obama hiring multiple lawyers to keep his birth certificate and related records from being publicly viewed instead of just releasing them?
If anyone really knows any of these three to really not be true i would love to hear about it at lancelot7@access4less.net
Regards,
Roger
Say what you will about this bizarre and surreal situation, one that is actually hard to believe,…beyond the suspension of disbelief if you will.
“We the people” are being deprived of important information.
The systematic effort by internet entities to scrub information detrimental to Obama is occurring, and given the sequestering of any pertinent documents both here and abroad by him what else would alert citizens be expected to believe?
I suggest reading the the bio compiled at the website the Obama files and everyone start to save everything they can on his records before it all disappears.
This man came out of nowhere, he was made and funded by others. These other people do not like America as a free and prosperous society and aim to change it!
It is time to end this charade and quit going along with this subversion, someone with some guts in the MSM needs to step up.
The crazy ones are the ones acting like nothing is wrong,like there is nothing there to see!
This is a ridiculously argued article and Michelle Malkin isn’t a fool.
I have read other article since just as poorly argued. She joins David Horowitz, Michael Medved, Rick Moran, Ed Morrissey, and others. The point is that we are not arguing to overturn a Democratic victory. The victory would go to Senator Joe Biden if Obama were ineligible. This could all be put behind us if Obama would produce the birth certificate for validation. Yet that is the one thing these conservatives all seem almost hysterical to prevent.
I believe that they kinda suspect Obama isn’t qualified and do not want to pay the cost in blood and domestic peace such a discovery would entail.
All this deabte over whether or not Obama is in fact a natural-born citizen is healthy simply for the fact we may well be able to “elect” an illegal alien’s “anchor-baby” in a few years with glowing ties to Mexico (uber alles)…and that too will have profound changes for the country.
At this time however unless Obama does something egregiously uncomfortable or deadly to large enough segments of the US population, the debate over the validity of his ability to meet the presidential requirement of citizenship will be regarded by the average American as moot at best.
I didn’t vote for obummer, can’t stand the man, but am relatively happy now that he’s been elected. We’re about to have four years not unlike the time when carter was president. You’ll see ever-increasing inflation, unemployment, social engineering where it shouldn’t be, and generally all the hallmarks of elitist yet horribly lacking in common sense liberal government. As I see it, a majority of the nation voluntarily chose the worst possible candidate they could, and while I regret that we all must suffer, it gives us the chance to experience a Reagan-like government afterwards (strong hint towards palin/jindal.) I don’t want to hear one single whine out of the idiots who gave us reid and pelosi, failed housing markets, bankrupt lending institutions and the like, because they trumped their poor choices with an ignorant 30 second soundbite whose sole claim to fame appears to be that he’s black! So be it…let the birth certificate issue die, and let’s get our collective a$$es in gear in taking back the house and senate in ’10, the presidency in ’12, and along the way, retrieve the American dream, honor, repspect, and family values!
Yeah, so let’s just ignore the Constitution and let it slide; it’s just a silly requirement anyway right?
As just one example of the benefit of using ANYTHING valid way possible to keep him out of the white house, consider that MILLIONS of innocent lives in the womb stand to be murdered if he manages to pass a federal law rendering all state anti-abortion laws illegal. Say hello again to partial birth abortion. Born alive protection? – out the window; we already know his satanic viewpoint on that issue. Funding? No problem! Spread more wealth to planned parenthood; and throw out statatory rape of 13 year old girls while we’re at it – they have ‘privacy’ too!
‘ILLEGAL’ – it’s not just for aliens anymore…
I forgot to comment on that one. Yeah, like carter or worse and here we are STILL suffering from that nitwit 30 odd years later! We can thank Carter for things like a nuclear Iran, giving away the Panama Canal and this GSE mess for starters. I for one would rather avoid the possibility of making even more such tragic mistakes.
Another excellent article posted today by
Douglas J. Hagmann the director of Homelandsecurityus.com website
Along with the MSM, conservative voices are also being called to task for putting down the Americans whom believe our Constitution is being subverted, and do not believe “letting it go” or “letting it be” are prudent actions(inactions) for a critical question.
Michelle, and our radio right leaders are specifically named as part of the tendency lately to dismiss concerned citizens as hopeless conspiracy nuts.
Than he brings up something I too have wondered, is there unprecedented collusion happening behind the scenes in our government(by both sides) and media?
Why this universal sentiment out of left and right voices?
It is too late to put this genie back in the bottle, something will have to give because the people want the answer to this question in increasing numbers, and we should not “let it go”!
Just to reiterate the above quote
“Barack Hussein OBAMA, has reportedly spent between $800,000 to close to $1,000,000 (one million dollars), using at least three different law firms to fight these civil actions.
Now, consider that each and every one of the lawsuits filed against him could be immediately dismissed by the mere production of a single piece of paper that is available to him for the paltry sum of $12.50 at a recorder’s office in Hawaii.
Also keep in mind that at this point, OBAMA would likely not even have to make the document public, but provide it to the applicable judge or official for verification purposes to make this controversial maelstrom disappear.
As an investigator and a rational American citizen, I have to ask myself why Barack Hussein OBAMA has chosen not to dispose of this very simple matter in the most logical and expeditious manner possible.
You don’t understand. Let me spell it out for you.
The media is in the tank for the left, has been for some time, and will be for some time. Democrats currently have a strong hold on the senate…I could swear I read somewhere they even picked up a seat or two this last cycle. They have an equally strong hold on the house…maybe you’ve read the same. And pardon me, but I believe obummer, the chosen/annointed/he-who-walks-in-the-light won the presidential election.
If obummer were found to have been spawned on the third moon of Antares IV, it would not make one whit of difference as to where this country is headed for the next two years. It’s not ignoring the constitution; if you can make the issue stick, by all means, go for it, but who exactly is going to do the investigation? The house?? The senate?? Other democrats?
I deal with REALITY, and the REALITY is that too many people are idiots who can’t be bothered to take a stand and vote on the issues. Too many special interests, too many who actually believe in hollywood like 30 second commercials promising everything and delivering on none of it. All too often people will not address an evil until it gets so bad and out of control that they are forced into taking action. A lot of people voted for carter for the same myopic and silly reasons; it took four years of misery and hardship for the people to wake up. I fully expect, given his record (or lack of it) that obummer will do such a deplorable job (backed by pelosi and reid) that the American people will finally wake up and move this country back where it should be. I agree the constitution should be supported and enforced, but this is an issue that should have been tended to before the election, and quibbling about it now changes nothing.
“I agree the constitution should be supported and enforced, but this is an issue that should have been tended to before the election, and quibbling about it now changes nothing.”
Nice post, but I disagree with that part. If something may have violated the US Constitution to the point that it could invalidate everything the new “president” does, I just can’t see why anyone should stop quibbling over it….and they won’t.
What surprises me the most is that so many on our side haven’t figured this one out yet.
Obama will not close this case till he sees the advantage of it being out there fade away.
AKA, as long as there are kooks out there jumping up and down yelling about “How this paper doesn’t meet my demands” he will have someone to point too and say see the far right is persecuting me.
Painting anyone who leans to the right as a Kook.
(Just my two cents.)
Not trying to draw any direct parallels here, one of those times people didn’t address evil until it was out of control resulted in WW2. Few woke up even when tanks were rolling into Poland. Many more didn’t wake up until millions had died.
Like I already said, we are STILL paying for Carter’s inept administration so I fail to see how ‘waiting’ for things to get worse makes anything better?
If Obama is a natural born citizen then fine; maybe we’ll get a another Reagan-like administration in 2012 and maybe even one without a Bush 41 future built into it? Maybe.
Regardless … The future result of an Obama presidency has NOTHING to do with the the issue of his satisfying a Constitutional requirement. HIS CITIZENSHIP IS SOMETHING HE SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO PROVE – NOT SOMETHING WE SHOULD HAVE TO DISPROVE!
What proof is there that anyone is NOT a US citizen? Should any foreigner be able to come along and say, “Well see, nobody proved that I am not a citizen so THEREFORE I AM!”
BHO hasn’t proven his citizenship. He’s hiding something – what?
I notice there is still no update from MM for here. I predict she’ll just let it roll off the edge.
Well, she’s in “good” company. She’s joined John McCain, Linda Chavez, and that “conservative” opinionator at NYT. The difference is instead of this, their guiding light shutting down all us bigoted people who thought illegal meant illegal. Its still illegal means illegal, but not sneak-thiefs, just forgers.
I guess there’s a difference…
I’ve stopped reading any other threads. If the arguments presented in this thread aren’t answered and I’m sure there will be no action on it, I’ll stop reading this one too.
At that point I’ll login in and post a monthly comment on some thread to keep Dad’s account alive for him, (I don’t have the right to let it get swept because of inactivity) but I’ve mostly stopped reading here… it really seems you can’t trust the intentions of those involved.
It gives to the heart of the matter: when someone hues & cries about others telling conservatives to “shut-up” and demonizing them as bigots then tells them that legitimate and provable concerns, (that go well beyond “a few pixels”…)make them crazypeople, then we have a pot/kettle situation.
Add to that the weakness and disingenuousness of the arguments used and I must admit that I might have been wrong abt MMs reasons for the McCain stuff. I am still sure about McCain.
In horror I must say it almost seems that when her ox isn’t gored she’s jake with telling others to STHU. I need to to some in-depth research and make some decisions. It will take a while, I’m going to miss the friends I’ve made here. I feel a warm fellowship with everyone, even those I’ve crossed swords with.
However, if our opinions and the facts we’ve presented mean nothing, not rebuttal with a better set of arguments or even a “you took the tone quite differently than I meant it…” then her expressions of affections to all those who visit here were just pro forma and had no substance. Like a rubber mask, you don’t know whats underneath. A welcoming face, or a smirk of self-satisfaction on “putting one over again”?
I’ve gotten a few emails from commentors here I’ve traded email addresses with. I know there are a few who think I’m over reacting. If this was an isolated incident, I’d agree. The problem is that this infection of “STHU, you PEONS!” is working its way through the the political classes and now is spreading to the punditry. And so it seems now that it is here, too.
NB: I don’t have a problem, and never did with anyone’s opinion that we are “barking up the wrong tree”. Or that there is no “there” there. My total and complete problem has been with the snotty, condescending, patronizing tone, implying that we are high-functioning emotional cripples coupled with a set of arguments so insulting to the intellect that, assuming they weren’t a poor joke, indicates MM thinks we’re barely competent morons good only in that we provide increased traffic for ad revenue.
I am really saddened by this, and the continued silence. I enjoy the exchange with people who frequent this site. As I’ve stated: I like the people here, and feel an intellectual fellowship for you all. If you don’t hear from me again, you will know why: I won’t visit a house where I’m not wanted, the home of a disingenuous person.
Since the whole issue makes no sense, I’ve come up with my own theory. Perhaps the conservatives have decided (very possibly independently of each other) that to invalidate Obama’s election on what many would see as a mere technicality would create chaos of unprecedented proportions. Openly challenging the constitutionality of the issue would cause irreparable harm as well.
It is not illogical to conclude that ignoring and/or suppressing the issue is best for the country.
That is the mindset that has brought us down into the cesspool we’re in in this country.
On December 8th, 2008 at 2:15 pm, ggchuck said:
It’s not a mere technicality. There is a very good reason why the “Natural born” citizen (not “Native born” citizen and not mere citizen) requirement is there.
The Presidency is unique from all other offices in our government. The President is Commander-in-Chief of our Armed Forces. For this reason, one must be a Natural born citizen. It is intentionally designed to prevent a person with divided allegiance to any other country from ever commanding our troops.
On July 25th, 1787, John Jay wrote to George Washington, then Presiding Officer of the Constitutional Convention:
John Jay was the First Chief Justice of the United States, among many other things, and it was this letter that caused Clause 5 of Article II to exist.
This issue will not go away.
Quite to the contrary, every day more and more people are realizing that the document produced at the Obama Camapaign Headquarters in Chicago is merely a hardcopy of photoshopped forgery that first appeared on Daily KOS.
The State of Hawaii has never verified that authenticity of that forgery.
The State of Hawaii has never released any documentation of Obama’s birth.
The State of Hawaii has never claimed that Obama was “born in Honolulu”, even though the Associated Press and Fact Check.org lied and claimed that Dr. Fukino had said that.
A newspaper announcement is circumstantial evidence that is not admissible as “proof” of his birth in Hawaii. Can you imagine a new employee trying to use a newspaper clipping as proof of their U.S. citizenship? It’s laughable. If that won’t work to get you a job at McDonalds, it’s certainly not acceptable for the highest office in this country.
Every Member of Congress swore an Oath of office to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States”. The Constitution explicitly requires that a President be a Natural Born Citizen. It is the responsibility of Congress to honor their oath and verify the eligibility of the man who would be President.
Every member of Congress failed to uphold their oath of office. They “outsourced” their Constitutional responsibility to an unaccountable, unelected, untrustworthy third party who demonstrably lied.
Two things are required to put this to rest:
1) A Supreme Court ruling on the definition of “Natural Born Citizen”. Can someone who was born with citizenship of another country (as Obama admits that he was) be considered a “Natural Born Citizen” of the United States?
2) If the Supreme Court finds that persons born with foreign citizenship can still be considered a “Natural Born Citizen” of the United States, then Congress needs to inspect an officially certified birth certificate for Barack Obama, delivered under seal from the State of Hawaii, just as they did with their inspection of the Certificate from the Hawaiian Secretary of State for the certification of the Electoral College vote.