Obama stimulus plan nears $1 trillion
The Wall Street Journal calls the rapidly expanding Obama stimulus plan “meatier.”
I think they mean crappier.
We’ve graduated from Crap Sandwich to Crap Super Stuffed Sub.
The stimulus boondoggle went from $300 billion to $500 billion to $600 billion to $1 trillion in less than a month.
Give me your over/under that it’ll double by the time it gets to the Spreader of Wealth’s desk next month.
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Categories: fiscal stimulus
Pundit & Pundette
» Bishop Jenky, Nicki Minaj, and the "98%"JustOneMinute
» We Hear From The Department Of Good Ideas And False Choices
It’s time right thinking Americans started buying these since Obamanation promises to produce an overabundance of poo. It’s just poo in and poo out! – it’s the easy way!
Thanks! But no, not at all! My son and his friend who were in the car have a little bit of some issues. But they walked away with minor scratches. Freak accidents happen.
Its one of those things about co-incidence and makes you wonder about ‘the other side’. I had never had a PT Cruiser as a rental before, but the very next two trips I was on, they assigned the PT to me. (I refused of course) But I just stood there, knowing she was laughing at me as paybacks
Oh, gosh, me too! There are just too many coincidences in life for it all to be random and meaningless.
The sad thing is it will take Obama 2 or 3 years to outspend Bush! Bush and his insane spending in the last few months have “legitimized” Obama’s big spending plans.
Sigh…its always about Bush with you people isn’t it?
Here’s an idea that couldn’t “cost” anymore than the BS they’ve peddled so far… forgive the first $50,000 of all 2008 personal income taxes and some percentage of corporate income taxes (and maybe all 2008 FICA taxes: employer and employee halves).
That would put real money into the hands of taxpayers who would be free to:
1) save it (recapitalize banks, stock market)
2) pay of debt (helps to erase “toxic debt”)
3) spend it as they see fit (gets money moving again)
Not sure what all this infrastructure spending will do for people who don’t work in road construction (and the enviro-lawyers that will tie all these projects up in litigation anyway).
Will people who work on these projects be required to prove citizenship? Or will some poor laid-off schmuck engineer get to pay taxes so that a “guest worker” will have a job?
In the meantime, we need to figure out a sustainable economy – one that doesn’t rely on bubbles, fads, and inscrutable financial gimmicks.
I don’t know… Bush has set the bar pretty high but I’m pretty sure that Nancy, Barry, and Harry will give it a go.
How much of it is MINE!!!! I waaaaant my money gimmme gimmme gimmmme I’m going to hold my breath until i die until you give me my money i want my money NOW!!! where’s my money money money money I want my money…und so wieter…
Obama to nation: “BARTENDER, SET ‘EM UP! BAILOUTS OUT FOR EVERYONE!”
Yes, it is and it always will be. BTW, anyone who has studied economics should know the government needs to increase spending to fight a recession. That is what President Bush faced at the beginning of his first term and it was exacerbated by the attacks on our country on 9/11/2001. I also wonder if people have any idea of how much it costs to run a country as large as ours. Yeah, yeah, I know the argument of: “well, gee, it should only be for defense, blah, blah, blah.” I am so sick of libertarian, “true” conservative nonsense. It is as bad as the leftist nonsense.
I’ve got a better “stimulus plan”. Take the 1 trillion dollars and split it up among the taxpayers, say 200 million, in this country. With all that money, it sure would make a whole nation happy…and out spending it too! Sure would “stimulate” the economy, and the government would get some of it back in taxes, not to mention how it would rescue a lot of businesses, with customers lined up to spend, and banks overwhelmed with new accounts. Might drive up prices, but not before I’ve spent a lot of my new money.
NO.
It’s financial conservatism with individual moral responsibility.
It’s called Natural Law.
I have and your wrong.
Lets look longer term in all of this. I think Obama plans on combining an amnesty and ‘free’ health care into this ‘stimulus’. So, I predict that this little ‘crap baby’ is gonna come in at over 2 trillion! He will claim to be doing it all to ‘save the state governments’. What it will actually do, IF it passes, is break the dollar.
I’ll have my Crap on a burnt piece of 2X4 and a side of ‘shove up gently.’
BOHICA – probably one of the greates acronyms of all time.
Just stepping up to the starting line. Watch as the socialists take over as ‘daddy gov’.
Those who have been paying attention have seen the signs.
Freedom here and across the globe is in danger.
Breaking the dollor is a major tactical goal.
“Desperate people do desterate things.” IE: accept socialism
On December 13th, 2008 at 7:41 pm, rlwo2008 said:
That is KEYNESIAN economics, and it is a THEORY. Has never been proven because it can’t be proven. Under scientific theory you need to have test cases in which increased spending, reduced, and no change has occured under the exact same circumstances for any proof or disproof to occur. It is an unprovable postulation.
You dribbling moron.
Beyond that, can you cite any data to suggest that it is the government’s JOB to fight economic recessions?
What statistic can you cite that makes this the moral imperative of the government?
What section of the constitution can you quote that dictates that the government should fight economic recessions?
I also have and yes you are wrong.
Newt has said that Hank Paulson will be remembered as the worst Treasury Secretary in history. I keep coming back to how, of all Bush’s appointments, he was the one that the Democrats supported from the moment his name was proposed. Almost like they knew what we were getting.
What in sam-hell are you talking about?
Jeez…talk about your non-sequiters.
The foundation for our constitution. Natural Law
Look it up and study.
rlwo2008: yes, it does take a lot of money to “run a country as large as ours”. I also know that the gubmint engages in a lot of activities where it has no legitimate concern.
There comes a point (we may be getting close) where the burden of government overwhelms the ability of the economy to support it. Quite a few countries/states have been dealing with this reality for some time. Greece is a good example. So is California come to think of it.
I’m not a pure libertarian who thinks the government should return to 19th century size but I also know that there is an unlimited demand for government “service” and a limited ability to pay for all of it. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
I have studied many theories of natural law, including Hobbes, Locke and Aquinas. The benefits of a Jesuit education. So you can leave the misplaced condescension at the door, thank you.
I meant what the hell did that have to do with my comment. Wait…don’t answer. I don’t care and wouldn’t want you to waste the effort.
#118: I might add that whether or not Keynesian stimulus can pull the economy out of the crapper, I think that the theory was that the government withdraws stimulus as the economy recovers.
For as long as I can remember, the share of the economy that the government consumes increases no matter what’s happening: good times, bad times, so-so times.
No chap it’s not Bush
You really have no idea what my comment was about do you?
I. Was. Mocking. The. Notion. That. Liberals. Are. The. Ones. With. BDS.
robert537 got it.
I have a sick feeling this economy will have to crash BIG time for a majority of the population to realize these stimulus packages do not work– IF they ever realize it. I am hoping we have enough of a Conservative base left to carry the message.
Hopefully we are Britain and France ir Canada already.
Obscure Chap
ACK! NO! Government needs to cut taxes (to leave money in consumer pockets, and free up investment income for businesses) and then the individuals, and businesses, increase spending and thereby stimulate the economy!
Econonomics needs to be REQUIRED subject matter for 8th grade and up!
Excuse me while I go beat my head into a wall for a bit to get rid of this headache.
we are FAR beyond that point and we are going to go farther. The dollor WILL break and China will be the new economic power.
Since there appears to be no open thread tonight…
Hamster on a piano
Hamster on a piano
Hamster on a piano
Eating Popcorn
On a piano
I am immensely amused by this. Take that for what you will.
I didn’t say the federal government needed to increase taxes. They need to cut taxes and increase spending so there is more money and jobs are available. Which is exactly what President Bush did. EXCESS spending can be directly attributed to Democrats increasing spending on their pet programs past inflationary increase, just like what they did to the housing market through their malfeasance in administration of the two FM’s. President Bush understood this, but a president cannot do veto after veto, and expect the government to work.
The core problem with government spending is the much lower money multiplier ratio. Government spending is a 2 to 1 ratio while private spending generates a 6 to 1 ratio. The only problem with the private sector is the more ambitious and smarter become richer.
rlwo2008 – You said GOVERNMENT needs to increase spending. That is wrong. The increase in spending must come from individuals and businesses.
OK, I’ve been busy most of the day, get here and find this. I gotta get me one.
Obama is not planning this “Stimulus” to help the economy. He is planning on it to help line his re-election coffers and to “change” our country with socialistic experiments. Let’s look at his plans to stimulate the economy:
Build more roads = pay union constuction to add more roadways
Renovate schools = create new ways to indocrinate our children to liberal ways
Renovate goverment buildings (Yeah worked real great for King County WA)= appease the enviormental AGW crowd
It’s no different than the UAW bailout that Pelosi, Reid and now Bush want.
If the Democrats get all this Stimulus money to be spent the way they want it spent you and I have just made massive donations to the Democratic Party via our taxes.
Do not resist Hamster on a Piano.
You are powerless against Hamster on a Piano.
Do not anger Hamster on a Piano.
I am sure handing out leis at the airport and playing the uke down at Wai Ki Ki is super tiring.
Come on Chap – Family man is a pretty decent guy and while he may not be the best speller or fanciest writer on the thread, I got his point and appreciated it.
Since you seemed to pass it over, let me try to restate it. If more people practiced financial conservatism and took resonsiblity for their actions, our country wouldn’t be in this much trouble.
We could discuss credit swaps, derivatives and the financial markets. We could discuss Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the millions of middle-class people who spent their equity. But in my opinion, FamilyMan’s few lines worked fine.
I’m disappointed in you people. Not a single post blaming an Obama supporter for burning down Gov. Palin’s church? What’s going on here?
It’s legalized theft.
lgm said: (#64)
I’m sorry that I’m late to this party (but I have good reasons), and I haven’t gotten to any other replies yet, but I had to say this while it’s fresh in my mind:
I am pleased to have my tax money help those who CAN NOT help themselves. I really resent having my money go to those who WILL NOT help themselves.
Many other expenditures, such a roads, policing, K-12 education, fire departments, national defense, and the State Department are reasonable, and I do not mind beling taxed to pay for those.
Since, I guess paying off my debts and saving for the future for a downpayment for a future house is passe, I’m gonna join the other financial delinquents and demand me some goodies.
Mama wants a nice platinum, 2 carat diamond ring (or the kind that Britney has), and live it up BIG TIME!
Saving is for suckers.
Why don’t the feds cut tax rates to stimulate REAL growth, and curb spending so that we would finish each year at least a million dollars less in debt than the last. That would be huge.
mmmm, let me take a crack at the Keynesians:
In a closed system, the government taxes the productive and “spends” more to stimulate growth. By this, I mean they reallocate wealth from high value purposes to lower value purposes. Economic activity is boosted in the short-term as velocity is increased among the traders in the lower-value segments of the economy. In the long-run, velocity decreases across the board because investment in the high-value segments of the economy are choked off by taxation. Supply decreases.
In an open system: the government borrows the high-value outputs of another economy (takes on debt) and redistributes it to lower value purposes within its own economy. The economy is boosted in the short-term as velocity increases across the native economy. In the long-run, however, debt obligations force higher domestic taxes and choke off investment.
In the long-run, the Keynesian loses.
Wealth follows the second law of thermodynamics: entropy. Without work (in the form of productive economic inputs), wealth will move from high-value (high energy) states to lower value (low energy) states. Redistribution is not a productive economic input and, thus, can only be deleterious to the total wealth in the system… OK, I made this up. But, it sounds good
It is – especially in the huge rainstorm we’ve been having for several days…
And (though this isn’t me) here’s a teenage girl who plays uke down in Waikiki…if only she had a hamster …
Personally, I think Obama is over his head, in becoming President, and he’s beginning to know it. It isn’t some sort of glamour job. There are some very serious responsibilities that go with it, and he’ll have to make some very hard decisions. For someone with no experience, the path will be full of pitfalls and diplomatic traps. Already, his past is coming to “home to roost”. A crisis could spell disaster for him. Of course, many people and the msm, still think that the President writes, debates, and passes his own domestic bills. He’ll have to pander to Pelosi and Reid to get things done, and they will want something in exchange. When this government take-over of the American economy is done, my grandchildren will have one heck of a bill to pay, and much less freedom and liberty to live. I only hope that this new President can learn quickly; for my children, grandchildren, and the country’s sake. The President’s forte is foreign affairs, and there are enemies out there, waiting gleefully, to challenge him in diplomacy and hope that he backs down in “confusion and fear”. Though I think he was a terrible choice for President, in such times as these, I still respect him. As Col. Winters once said, “You respect the rank, not the man”. So I sincerely hope that the POTUS survives this challenge with no more than gray hair. Bush can remind him of what Washington said once, “I hope you are as happy coming into this office, as I am in leaving it.” Someone needs to whisper in his ear, “Beware the Ides of March”-not personal assassination, but diplomatic assassination, for there are countries waiting for the chance.
Invest in ROSETTA STONE! Chinese version
Good morning folks.
It’s -10 degrees outside this morning and I’m paying $2.46 a gallon for propane. YIKS! Does anyone understand why the gas for my truck is $1.50 a gallon and propane is $1.00 more? I thought propane was a byproduct of gasoline production.
If any of you folks aren’t going to church this morning you may want to give a little giving to Soldiersangles.
http://soldiersangels.org/
It’s a all volunteer group and these small gift packages, given to our young soldiers really do make a difference.
It’ll be an immense help to the throngs of Mexicans who enter illegally to work in road construction . . .
I think Obama is a “New Keynesian” and will push big union labor for infrastructure building. The trick is keeping the illegals out of the unions. If New Orleans rebuilding was any historical guide, you may be right.
A different insight here into Obama’s cabinet choices and the collective sigh of relief that he will govern from the center.
Tipitman, great article. Krauthammer has it dead on I believe and his point is exactly the direction I was thinking with my post above.
Rebuild the infrastructure? Wow those will be some bike lanes, since the lefties are driving us out of our cars.
Welcome to the New National Reinvestment Act.
The policies, that kept America in the depths of economic chaos for 12 years… And, kept Democrats in power for 16, because everyone was convinced they were being done a favor.
Creating jobs is a noble pursuit… But, creating non-productive jobs at the expense of productive ones, is the road to ruin.
Sounds more and more like a scheme to make the political lackies rich. This is exactly what the Roman Senate did prior to Caesar. And the Senators got rich.
At what point do people call Obama and his plan stupid. If not 1 trillion is it at 2 trillion, 3?
It’s obvious the Federal government will run out of money before this kind of foolish, childish crap is successful.
#64 lgm said “..only the greedy refuse to pay taxes.”
Oh Really? How much of MY money do YOU think is fair to give up? Under Obama, my tax rate will be 39.6%. Add raising the FICA cap, etc. I will be paying over 50%. You assume because I am in the top bracket I have plenty left over. But you don’t know our lives. What if you knew many us us have struggles with the following: subsidizing elderly parents, college tuition, medical not covered by insurance, losses in investments, etc?
Lgm ,I have been polite to you and affirmed your good points when you have made them. But by that very statment you have proved yourself a superficial thinker and your lack of depth should disqualify you from this site.
Only your marginal rate, not your effective rate.
Well its a pretty good bet that lgm has never met John Galt
psssst…don’t tell anyone…but John Galt is a fictional character in an overwrought, overwritten, overabout300pages novel.
Oh, btw, there is no tooth fairy or Santa Claus either. Sorry.
But lgm is a leftist liberal, and they always know what’s best for everyone.
It is still an increase. It is still the government taking advantage of our physical labors – labors performed primarily for the benefit of our families, not to support Uncle Sam’s superfluous spending habits!
Btw, this was really a let-them-eat cake post from you; very flippant.
It certainly was not meant to be. It is amazing the number of people that have no idea how our graduated tax rates work. Thus you get the whole “I don’t want a raise, cause that will just knock me up to the next tax bracket”.
And you’re missing our point: increasing taxes crowds invest, thereby increasing unemployment and the cost of living for everyone.
Btw, what is it with you and LGM, that you two seem to think no one on the thread knows anything about our GRADUATED tax code? Bracketed taxation and incomes are hardly a secret, taught only at ivy league universities or discussed liberal salons.
I am sure a lot of people are aware. I was not aware my comment was meant to be directed at the grup at large. But this is the second time I have seen someone basically say that they are paying half their check out in taxes because they simply add their marginal rate to their FICA, state taxes, etc… Which is just fundamentally incorrect and a gross distortion.
You can argue that whatever you are paying is too high, and frankly that was not my point and I don’t really wish to argue that. But it would be nice to do so from a truthful basis.
Whatever, this is a dumb argument.
Our current government doesn’t seem to have any problem, or conscience, with burdening our children and grandchildren with debt that even they will never pay off. Our parents, and grandparents, sacrificed so that we could have a better life. This generation wants our descendants to sacrifice so that we can have a better life and so that they can keep their power in Washington.
They all should be led off in handcuffs. I’m embarrassed of our government.
I don’t think sending America into total bankruptcy is the way to jump start the economy. All these bailouts and stimulus packages gotz to go!!