American people say NOOOO! to bailout; George Bush can’t hear; Update: Senate conservatives turn up the heat

By Michelle Malkin  •  December 16, 2008 11:20 AM

Scroll down for updates…

What part of N-O doesn’t the Bush administration understand?

Two headlines this morning:

Majority of Public Opposes Auto Rescue
Poll Finds Most Blame Industry for Problems, Believe Failure Won’t Hurt Economy

Administration says it’s still working on bailout

We will pay a heavy price for the obstinacy of a lame duck.

***

Meantime, more poor decision-making by the auto biz. Autoblog’s Michael Harley reports:

Chrysler’s “sales bank,” the loathed program in which the automaker continues to manufacture and stock cars regardless of demand, is supposedly back through the end of the year. Chrysler LLC co-President Jim Press delivered the news to dealers on Friday during a nationally telecast conference call when he mentioned that district managers will be calling dealers trying to offload 12,000 units of unassigned inventory.

Dealers left the call gasping for air, recalled the summer of 2006, when Chrysler had nearly 650,000 units in the sales bank. At the time, there was a 91-day supply of vehicles. Today, with about 400,000 units in inventory, the automaker is sitting on a 117-day supply.

***

Louder!

White House switchboard: 202.456.1414.

***

Update 4:20pm Eastern.
Our Senate GOP mavericks have sent a letter to President Bush opposing the TARP-to-UAW bailout:

December 16, 2008

Dear Mr. President,

We are writing to urge you not to use Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) funds to bail out the automobile industry. Last week, the Senate rejected a legislative bailout after the United Auto Workers (UAW) union refused to agree to changes necessary to help the Big Three automakers become competitive. According to news accounts, your Administration is considering providing TARP funds to the automakers without requiring the UAW and the automakers to make sufficient reforms. Absent such restructuring, we do not believe any amount of money will succeed in saving these companies.

Sincerely,

Jim DeMint

Jeff Sessions

John Ensign

Tom Coburn

John Cornyn

Michael Enzi

Saxby Chambliss

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Comments


  1. #1
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:23 am, Red State Skeptic said:

    Now he should cave in to public opinion? But for the last few years when the majority of Americans wanted us out of Iraq ASAP, he was courageous for standing his ground, right?

  2. #2
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:24 am, Ilovemycountry said:

    He’s too busy getting shoes thrown at his head

  3. #3
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:25 am, paulrtaylor said:

    Decisions like thes are the reason that these companies are failing. They are also the reason that they need to fail as a company

  4. #4
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:27 am, sonofdy said:

    RSS, He was right about Iraq, at least in the last 2 years.

  5. #5
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:28 am, cyrebus said:

    Maybe he has a pair of shoes stuck in his ears…lol

  6. #6
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:28 am, JHSII said:

    Bush is still reaching out to the democrats.

    BTW, the majority of Americans didn’t – and don’t – want us out of Iraq ASAP. The majority of liberals, yes, but they want us to lose.

  7. #7
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:31 am, sonofdy said:

    This bailout is about the UAW not GM.

    Unless you solve the problem of the unions greed, bailing out GM is pointless. That being said it will happen. Now or when the ONE gets in. But it will happen. The next time congress meets, it will be 100% on the dems.

  8. #8
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:38 am, Mister P said:

    Why would he care about what the citizens think. He would just create more.

  9. #9
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:38 am, verogolfer said:

    If Bush keeps this up, it’s the Republican Party will need a bailout, and they are already suffering election losses.

  10. #10
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:40 am, Flyoverman said:

    Bailing out the Auto Unions flunks the common sense test, which is what the auto bailout really is.

  11. #11
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:41 am, Rogue Cheddar said:

    Bush keeps reaching out and getting his hand slapped. After eight years one would think he’d know better. Talk about stubborn.

  12. #12
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:41 am, love2rumba said:

    Chrysler’s “sales bank” so reminds me of soviet production…just keep making something that nobody wants…what’s wrong with that stupe in the whitehouse??

  13. #13
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:43 am, love2rumba said:

    Bush is turning into a disgrace.

  14. #14
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:43 am, Flyoverman said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:41 am, Rogue Cheddar said:
    Bush keeps reaching out and getting his hand slapped. After eight years one would think he’d know better. Talk about stubborn stuck on stupid.

    Fixed it

  15. #15
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:49 am, John Deaux said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:31 am, sonofdy said:
    This bailout is about the UAW not GM.

    Did you ever notice that you can’t say anything negative about unions in public without people looking at you like you’ve just said something discriminatory and bigoted?

  16. #16
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:51 am, sonofdy said:

    Did you ever notice that you can’t say anything negative about unions in public without people looking at you like you’ve just said something discriminatory and bigoted?

    Apparantly I am that anyway so shurg.

  17. #17
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:52 am, Tom Blogical said:

    It’s one of Bush’s greatest assets and one of his greatest weaknesses. Despite what the public thinks, he pursues his own convictions.

  18. #18
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:52 am, ajmontana said:

    LLC co-President Jim Press delivered the news to dealers on Friday during a nationally telecast conference call when he mentioned that district managers will be calling dealers trying to offload 12,000 units of unassigned inventory.

    I’ll take ten of them off your hands right now for $10.00, you pay shipping.

  19. #19
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:53 am, brad_sk said:

    No…Although Detroit’s failure is completely its own fault aggravated by lousy union deals, I think its good that Bush is trying to offer some help to them now.

    The reason is economy - People like Michelle Malkin whose jobs are in politics are almost always safe. Rest of us don’t have that leniency. It would be a huge hit to economy if companies fail now. Its better to loan (not free money but loan) them and then let them fail after a year or so if they cannot pull some miracle (aka kick unions out) by then.

    Secondly so called conservative Bush has already bailed out financial industry. The new loan for auto industry is much lesser (~30B as compared to ~350B already taken out for AIG, etc). If they have tried so much already why not try same with auto industry?

  20. #20
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:54 am, Regulus said:

    What we’re getting here from George Bush may not be what we like in this instance, but it’s going to be something we’re going to miss for the next four years of Hope-a-Dope:

    Leadership.

    Leadership boils down to doing what you, the one in the leadership position, believe is right — regardless of what those around you think is the “popular” thing to do.

    To be a true leader, you have to risk and sometimes accept unpopularity. Like or hate his decisions, no one can deny that Bush leads.

    Contrast the “follower” style of Bill Clinton, who never made a decision without checking with opinion polls and focus groups — always with an eye on what they told him would be the popular choice. We got a president with great personal favorability ratings, but who left a legacy of leaving important matters for others to deal with.

    Now, comes Hope-a-Dope: whose state senate record can be summed up by one word — “Present” — and whose brief US senate record was utterly undistinguished.

    A man who, when confronted with repeated public expressions of racial bigotry and anti-Americanism from his “spiritual mentor” for 20 years, sat on his hands and said nothing because he lacked the moral and political courage to oppose what was wrong and stand up for what was right.

    A man who, when Russia invaded Georgia, defaulted to mealy-mouthed moral equivalence instead of recognizing naked aggression and supporting its victims.

    A man who earned a reputation on the presidential campaign trail for having an expiration date on everything he ever said; whose promises to even his moonbat useful idiots proved worthless as soon as they no longer benefited him personally.

    Love him or hate him for it, George Bush never shied away from the tough calls. He’s a leader.

    And that’s never going to be more apparent beginning the day after he leaves the White House.

  21. #21
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am, brad_sk said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:43 am, love2rumba said:

    Bush is turning has turned into a disgrace.

    Corrected…

  22. #22
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am, ammonrae said:

    I do oppose the bailout. America cannot afford it. Just like this war, we are wasting too much money and bankrupting America and the American worker. We need more libertarians in office.

  23. #23
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:57 am, brad_sk said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am, ammonrae said:

    I do oppose the bailout. America cannot afford it. Just like this war, we are wasting too much money and bankrupting America and the American worker. We need more libertarians in office.

    Which war you talking about? The war in Afghanistan is a necessary one to fight out evil Islamists…Not the same with war in Iraq. That was an unnecessary one started based on lies and we still spending billions.

  24. #24
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:57 am, faraway said:

    I am fine with Bush bailing out GM, for now.

    This will push the can down the road to Obama. GM will face bankruptcy again in early 2009.

    Let Obama take responsibility for it.

  25. #25
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:58 am, faraway said:

    brad,brad,brad. Lies? Such a conspiracy freak. Do you believe in UFOs also?

  26. #26
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:58 am, madchef said:

    I called Sens. Shelby, Demint & Corker this morning urging them to file an injunction in federal court to block this unconstitutional act by the white house. No means No.

  27. #27
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:59 am, sonofdy said:

    We spent 8 times the amount spent on both wars for the last 7 years, in 2 months on these bailouts. I don’t think the wars are the biggest problem.

  28. #28
    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:59 am, John Deaux said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:53 am, brad_sk said:
    It would be a huge hit to economy if companies fail now. Its better to loan (not free money but loan) them and then let them fail after a year or so if they cannot pull some miracle (aka kick unions out) by then.

    That woiuld just stretch the poor economy out longer, meaning more suffering for everyone.

    Secondly so called conservative Bush has already bailed out financial industry. The new loan for auto industry is much lesser (~30B as compared to ~350B already taken out for AIG, etc). If they have tried so much already why not try same with auto industry?

    1. Why throw good money after bad?
    2. Because that $30 Billion has to come from somewhere. That’s where we come in. We get to suffer so some union worker keeps his health benefits until death? If Social Security is good enough for the rest of us, why not them?

  29. #29
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:00 pm, sonofdy said:

    Do you believe in UFOs also?

    Yes. I do. Having seen one.

  30. #30
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:04 pm, brad_sk said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:58 am, faraway said:

    brad,brad,brad. Lies? Such a conspiracy freak. Do you believe in UFOs also?

    No I don’t…because I DON’T believe in things just because some dirty politicians said so..I need at least some proof with valid data. Iraq war was started by claiming WMD which you might very well know the truth by now.

  31. #31
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:07 pm, ammonrae said:

    brad

    Which war you talking about? The war in Afghanistan is a necessary one to fight out evil Islamists…Not the same with war in Iraq. That was an unnecessary one started based on lies and we still spending billions.

    me

    I oppose both wars. We are wasting too much money period. We are bankrupting America and blowing out the government’s credit. We are also sending workers into poverty. The more I see this, more my patriotism falls like a rock for America.

  32. #32
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:16 pm, Texhoma said:

    We’ve elected 3 children in a row to the Presidency.

    Children wish for good things to happen.

    George, as a child my daddy used to tell me “Wish in one hand, crap in the other, see which one fills first”.

    Another fact about children is they act like they don’t hear their parents when told to stop.

    George, the difference now is that you are not crapping in our hands. You are crapping on our heads and acting like you don’t hear us.

  33. #33
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:17 pm, Send_Me said:

    President George W. Bush said earlier that a bankruptcy in the U.S. auto industry would hurt the economy while the U.S. deals with the recession.

    I hope people remember this sort of thing in 2012 when Republicans have to decide whether or not to support another “lesser of two evils” candidate.

  34. #34
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:28 pm, Bill Grant said:

    George Bush has presided over an increased in the US national debt of $4,933,783,277,366.00. (As of about 55 seconds ago, it increases $3.60 billion per day.)

    We currently owe $10,610,794,289,694.76

    And wait ’til Obama gets his chance to run up bills that we can’t pay.

  35. #35
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:28 pm, ArizonaNeanderthal said:

    Decisions such as the Auto Bank are indeed why the industry is failing and Administration says it’s still working on bailout is why the Republican brand is failing.

    Two entities not doing what they need to be doing and taking everyone else down with them. God Bless President Bush and I do wish him well but he can be a Stiff Necked fool for reasons I can not fathom.

    I have news for brad_sk and President Bush- the economy will take a far bigger hit dragging billions of dollars out of this economy to fund certain failure. But then that is chump change compared to the hundreds of billions already dedicated to be wasted on the banks.

    When all this borrowing makes it difficult, if not impossible, for successful businesses to borrow watch the unemployment climb. Then you have uncertainty in the markets and we get the avalanche effect. Markets need to self correct-making cars we will not buy does not help. Uncertainty is the big killer of jobs.

  36. #36
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:29 pm, sonofdy said:

    The more I see this, more my patriotism falls like a rock for America.

    Both wars? Well whatever. You will soon get your wish because there is a real chance that once people understand how truely bad things are going to get that there could be a civil war here. That means ALL the troops come home. ASAP. The time to choose sides will be interesting if that does happen, hoping it doesn’t. It may come down to which part of the oath of enlistment do you stand by.

  37. #37
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:31 pm, sonofdy said:

    We currently owe $10,610,794,289,694.76

    And wait ’til Obama gets his chance to run up bills that we can’t pay.

    No kidding, and both parties are to blame so the one isn’t going to be able to stop it. In fact he has already promised another TRILLION, just to start with.

  38. #38
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:33 pm, Bill Grant said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:17 pm, Send_Me said:

    I hope people remember this sort of thing in 2012 when Republicans have to decide whether or not to support another “lesser of two evils” candidate.

    My guess is that they will be sufficiently shocked at the waste/socialism/Chicago style corruption/classlessness/incompetence of the Obama administration that there wont be ANYONE stupid enough out there to waste their vote on someone like Alan Keyes.

  39. #39
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:34 pm, sonofdy said:

    I hope people remember this sort of thing in 2012 when Republicans have to decide whether or not to support another “lesser of two evils” candidate.

    You are assuming that we will get to vote in 2012. I hope you are right.

  40. #40
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:34 pm, bayou22 said:

    Are the cars in Chrysler’s “sales bank” being manufactured by employees who are in the “jobs bank”?

    Perhaps that’s why Washington is interested in bailing them out with TARP money… they think they are dealing with more banks.

  41. #41
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:41 pm, brad_sk said:

    Hehe….Nice one bayou22 at 40

  42. #42
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:41 pm, maisy said:

    Bush should leave his post before he does anymore damage…..He didn’t listen regarding Illegal immigration either but that is because the resulting chaos was his goal.The North American Union can’t happen fast enough for this failure of a man and President. He is a nation killer.

  43. #43
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:43 pm, right4life said:

    Which war you talking about? The war in Afghanistan is a necessary one to fight out evil Islamists…Not the same with war in Iraq. That was an unnecessary one started based on lies and we still spending billions.

    do you think saddam was a nice guy??? the only lies are the liberals saying the war was ‘started based on lies’ :roll:

  44. #44
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:46 pm, sonofdy said:

    The Iraq war was based on really really really bad intelligence from multiple sources all saying the same thing.

  45. #45
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:46 pm, Mister P said:

    Yes. I do. Having seen one.

    I have too. Who says a conservative can’t see UFOs. I met one believer in UFOs before he died. He talked an hour and a half about them (and how General Abrams told him NEVER to bring up the topic again). That person was Barry Goldwater.

  46. #46
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm, FilmLadd said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:53 am, brad_sk said:

    The reason is economy – …. It would be a huge hit to economy if companies fail now. Its better to loan (not free money but loan) them and then let them fail after a year or so if they cannot pull some miracle (aka kick unions out) by then.

    Good lord. Are you being sarcastic?

    1) A loan that is not repaid is free money.

    2) I do not owe the abstract concept “economy” a DAMNED THING, much less my freedom!

    Secondly so called conservative Bush has already bailed out financial industry. The new loan for auto industry is much lesser (~30B as compared to ~350B already taken out for AIG, etc). If they have tried so much already why not try same with auto industry?

    Yeah, let’s keep STICKING OUR FINGER IN THE ELECTRIC SOCKET. It burned us before, but THIS time it’ll be different!

  47. #47
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:52 pm, JustAThought said:

    Before my head explodes from frustration, let me make a recommendation that should be absolute required reading for each and every person involved with the UAW regardless of how they are involved, inlcuding spouses and children, and every non-union employee and supplier to the big 3.

    What magic book might this be? Some high-level tome that isn’t very easy to read? Perhaps a 700 page explanation of manufacturing or macro-economics? Maybe a marketing manual?

    A resounding NO to all of those.

    It’s a simple little book written several years ago called “The Goal”. If you haven’t read it, pick it up and read it. It explains what the REAL goal of any manufacturing company should be and how to best get there. It’s easy to read, told in a story format and I think even a politician could understand it. It may just be a bit over the head of most MBA’s however. :)

  48. #48
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:52 pm, brad_sk said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:43 pm, right4life said:

    do you think saddam was a nice guy??? the only lies are the liberals saying the war was ’started based on lies’ :roll:

    When did US get in the business of getting bad guys in some crappy part of world straightened? Secondly this was not the remotest of the reasons given by Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield in going to war (in Iraq). Reason was WMD…Iraq was not even hot bed for al qaueda before US attacked as its now.

    I don’t care what liberals or RINO’s say. Being a conservative I support war in Afghanistan and condemn the war in Iraq which was based on lies. I wish Bush had concentrated or even attacked Islamic terrorist Pakistan as well instead of cozying with its terrorist president Musharaf – May be we would have killed or rightly tortured Osama bin Laden by now.

  49. #49
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pm, sonofdy said:

    Secondly this was not the remotest of the reasons given by Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield in going to war (in Iraq).

    Actualy it was, along with 21 other reasons. Most people haven’t read the decleration. Bush was wrong on WMD. Dead wrong, which is almost as bad as lying, but it is NOT the same thing.

  50. #50
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pm, nuss said:

    U.S. automakers to American citizens:

    you won’t buy our overpriced, crappy cars, but we’re going to take your money anyway.

  51. #51
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pm, sonofdy said:

    I wish Bush had concentrated or even attacked Islamic terrorist Pakistan as well instead of cozying with its terrorist president Musharaf

    Attacking a nuclear armed nation? Risky, very risky.

  52. #52
    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:58 pm, Send_Me said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:33 pm, Bill Grant said:
    My guess is that they will be sufficiently shocked at the waste/socialism/Chicago style corruption/classlessness/incompetence of the Obama administration that there wont be ANYONE stupid enough out there to waste their vote on someone like Alan Keyes.

    In case you’ve missed it, the “waste/socialism/Chicago-style corruption/classlessness/incompetence” seen right now is from a R-E-P-U-B-L-I-C-A-N president and his appointees.
    Now, are you referring to Bush’s appointees or to my embarrassment of a Governor (Blagojevich) when you say “Chicago-style corruption”? It’s not like Republican George Ryan, his predecessor, is doing much better right now.

  53. #53
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm, b-cat said:

    Reason was WMD

    Saddam had chemical weapons, having used them against the Kurds in the north of Iraq, the Shiites in the south, and against the Iranians during their long war. He probably had at least anthrax as well.

    The question is, where did they go?

  54. #54
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm, brad_sk said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm, FilmLadd said: at 46

    Yeah, let’s keep STICKING OUR FINGER IN THE ELECTRIC SOCKET. It burned us before, but THIS time it’ll be different!

    Good analogy but not true, at least as of yet. All good economists are agreeing that Detroit’s management and union concept is bad but letting companies fail now will add more to unemployment (already at 6.7%) at this time in recession. Even though I was against financial industry bailout, it has already happened. Now I just hope that it will help banks in lending more money to small business to generate more jobs.

    Similarly hope a loan to Detroit (with strings) will help them to stay alive for a year and push them to eliminate unions in getting back on right track.

  55. #55
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:02 pm, GaMidnightRider said:

    I called and spoke to a gentleman and told him why should i as a business owner have to pay to bail out a company that made bad decisions. All the big 3 made contracts with the UAW giving them all the benefits and entitlements which caused their downfall. I asked them to explain why people making 10 to 12 dollars an hour should bail out companies who pay their employees 70 dollars an hour plus benefits.
    I like what MM says in this kind of situation:

    SUCK IT UP !!

  56. #56
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pm, huggybear said:

    What part of N-O doesn’t the Bush administration understand?

    L-O-L. Sounds like BDS is catchy.

    We will pay a heavy price for the obstinacy of a lame duck.

    Our country will be paying for decades to come for his entire presidency, in the form of higher taxes and massive inflation. In 8 short years, he doubled the national debt. So far he has spent hundreds of billions of dollars we do not have on a war we did not want and do not need. This is your president. This is the man you defended (wait, continue to defend. WTF?) by calling people “deranged” and “unhinged” for not liking him. And now, with your 11th hour complaints about his incompetence, you demonstrate your own.

    He spent the past 8 years borrowing money from your children. Nice that you’ve finally caught on, but it’s a little too late.

  57. #57
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pm, granite said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 11:41 am, love2rumba said:

    Chrysler’s “sales bank” so reminds me of soviet production…just keep making something that nobody wants…

    You beat me to it!

  58. #58
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:05 pm, bjc said:

    *President Bush and common sense is an oxymoron.
    *The Big 3 need to move vehicles more than they need a bailout; Suggest they slap a big “Made in China” sticker on them and sell them through Wal-Mart.
    *The Big 3 have zero long term viability as long as the UAW remains a part of the equation; And it is indeed a bailout, not a loan; The money will-not-be-paid-back!

  59. #59
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:05 pm, faraway said:

    brad,brad,brad. Maybe you are right. It was based on lies. Here are the liars.

    One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.”
    - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

    At issue is nothing less than the fundamental question of whether or not we can keep the most lethal weapons known to mankind out of the hands of an unreconstructed tyrant and aggressor who is in the same league as the most brutal dictators of this century.”
    - Sen. Joe Biden (D, DE), Feb. 12, 1998

    He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”
    - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb. 18, 1998

    [W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.”
    - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.

  60. #60
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:06 pm, JHSII said:

    The only lies about the Iraq front in the War on Terror were told by liberals. One of the reasons to invade Iraq was WMD’s – and to continually say that was the only reason is another liberalism.

    Don’t even try to spew liberalisms and say you’re a Conservative.

  61. #61
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:06 pm, John Deaux said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:33 pm, Bill Grant said:
    My guess is that they will be sufficiently shocked at the waste/socialism/Chicago style corruption/classlessness/incompetence of the Obama administration that there wont be ANYONE stupid enough out there to waste their vote on someone like Alan Keyes.

    But Obscure McNobody is the true conservative in this race and I have to vote my principles.

    /sarc

  62. #62
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:09 pm, brad_sk said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:05 pm, faraway said: at 59

    I never said Clinton or his administration officials were good…and that doesn’t make Cheney/Rumsfield not guilty or not lying!! Bush administration was responsible to do their own homework.

  63. #63
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:09 pm, JHSII said:

    b-cat #53

    Saddam had chemical weapons, having used them against the Kurds in the north of Iraq, the Shiites in the south, and against the Iranians during their long war. He probably had at least anthrax as well.

    The question is, where did they go?

    Am I the only one here who saw the video of 60+ semi convoy after 60+ semi convoy leaving Iraq for Syria just prior to the start of the Iraq campaign?

  64. #64
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:09 pm, sonofdy said:

    Our country will be paying for decades to come for his entire presidency, in the form of higher taxes and massive inflation.

    How is that when he will not be president after jan 20th? Sounds like you are planning to blame him for whatever bad thing happens for the next 30 years. Bushs average unemployment rate was LOWER than clintons.

  65. #65
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:10 pm, CC said:

    The other day I saw what I thought was a brilliant idea by a commenter.

    Have the oil companies provide the bailout with their staggeringly high profits!

    Poetic justice. Without the cars they wouldn’t be making anything.

  66. #66
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:10 pm, faraway said:

    You must look at Clinton’s Feb 4th comments above in light of:

    Feb. 6, 1998: At a news conference, President Bill Clinton says he would never consider resigning because of the accusations against him. “I would never walk away from the people of this country and the trust they’ve placed in me,” he says.

  67. #67
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm, cheapseat said:

    10 trillion divided by 300 million (debt/population) shows every man woman and child in the u.s. owes someone 33 thousand dollars. so your family of three owes 100 grand. spending leads to printing leads to inflation, and if inflation worked, zimbabwe would be the richest nation on earth.

  68. #68
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm, sonofdy said:

    In fact huggy bear, the only one talking about rasing taxes are DEMOCRATS. Bush lowered taxes.So to blame something on bush that he opposed for the last 8 years is the height of dishonesty.

  69. #69
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm, b-cat said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:09 pm, JHSII said:
    Am I the only one here who saw the video of 60+ semi convoy after 60+ semi convoy leaving Iraq for Syria just prior to the start of the Iraq campaign?

    No, you’re not alone.

  70. #70
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm, faraway said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:09 pm, brad_sk said:

    I never said Clinton or his administration officials were good…and that doesn’t make Cheney/Rumsfield not guilty or not lying!! Bush administration was responsible to do their own homework.

    So, Brad, you are saying that Clinton and Bush conspired together to lie to the American people.

  71. #71
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:14 pm, faraway said:

    CC, are you some kind of Marxist?

    Do you believe in capitalism?

    Take from the rich and give to the poor?

  72. #72
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:15 pm, brad_sk said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm, faraway said at 70
    So, Brad, you are saying that Clinton and Bush conspired together to lie to the American people.

    Nope…I am saying that I never said Clinton was good. He was a liberal so obviously bad…but that doesn’t make Bush good.

  73. #73
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:16 pm, faraway said:

    So, Brad, you think Bush and Clinton conspired together to lie about Iraq?

  74. #74
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:18 pm, Mister P said:

    I don’t care what liberals or RINO’s say. Being a conservative I support war in Afghanistan and condemn the war in Iraq which was based on lies. I wish Bush had concentrated or even attacked Islamic terrorist Pakistan as well instead of cozying with its terrorist president Musharaf – May be we would have killed or rightly tortured Osama bin Laden by now.

    While I personally believe the Iraq War was a mistake, I disagree with your premise. Hussein had WMD (which he used) and probably dismantled what he had, but without showing the inspectors.

    The War was actually started by Bush Sr., so you really have to go back to him. Saddam violated all the terms. He had a scam going on the Oil for Food program. He violated the no fly zones and he enabled the terrorists. (He paid the families of suicide bombers 25,000 for killing Jews).

    I was against the War because as a conservative I believe it is not the Responsibility of the US to be the policeman of the world. Let the neighbors of Saddam deal with Saddam.

    As far as Afganistan. You can’t justify that any more than you don’t justify Iraq. For all we know bin Laden is under a pile of rocks. He has been rendered impotent and if it weren’t for politicians we know he would have been dead long ago.

    Instead of Iraq and Afganistan we should be defending our own borders (or at least our own hemisphere). Why no reaction to the Russian Warship?

  75. #75
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:26 pm, Ronbo said:

    Tried calling White House at 1320 hours — that’s 1:20 P.M. to you civilians. A voice said, “All operators are busy.” Way to go, people! It would appear we have jammed the line with our protest! Keep those calls coming — Today is the day The Battle of the Bulge started during WW II. In honor of those 19,000 G.I.s who died so America could live let us make our own offensive against the forces of evil.

  76. #76
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:26 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    Too bas there’s no fax number. We could all fax him impressions of our shoe soles.

  77. #77
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:28 pm, cheapseat said:

    wmd doesn’t just mean Nukes, it also means chemical and biological weapons, and NO ONE CAN DENY SADDAM KILLED THE KURDS WITH BIO WEAPONS. this is why clinton, gore, everyone believed he had wmd’s as he showed the world he did and was willing to use them. ANYONE WHO SAYS BUSH LIED ABOUT THIS IS EITHER IGNORANT OR LYING.

  78. #78
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:30 pm, Kevin K. said:

    sondofdy said: (#36)

    That means ALL the troops come home. ASAP.

    As one of those who is supposed to go over (and was technically there before, although I wasn’t able to contribute much), I want us to finish the jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq properly–which will, unfortunately, require our staying there longer.

    But to get back to the topic of the post, I shall call the White House or e-mail the President again, to oppose the bailout plan. The sooner that the Big Three break the stranglehold of the unions, the better for all in the country–except the union bosses. I don’t want to keep sending good money after bad.

  79. #79
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:34 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    CC, are you some kind of Marxist?Do you believe in capitalism? Take from the rich and give to the poor?

    I might be wrong, but I didn’t get the impression he was saying the oil companies should be forced to finance the deal. He was saying that if *anybody* stood to benefit from a bridge loan, it would be the oil companies.

    I like the idea. And just think how purple the liberals would turn!

  80. #80
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:35 pm, FilmLadd said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm, brad_sk said:

    Good analogy but not true, at least as of yet. All good economists are agreeing that Detroit’s management and union concept is bad but letting companies fail now will add more to unemployment (already at 6.7%) at this time in recession.

    You’re missing the point. I do not owe an abstract concept – THE ECONOMY – a thing.

    I don’t care what any economist says, good or bad. I do not owe GM, Ford or Chrysler ANYTHING. I don’t owe their workers, the “unemployment numbers,” your 401k, or anyone else ANYTHING.

    They are attempting to take money away from me and millions of others at GUNPOINT through the GOVERNMENT.

    It is evil, no matter how it is painted or portrayed.

  81. #81
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:35 pm, CantCureStupid said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:09 pm, JHSII said:
    Am I the only one here who saw the video of 60+ semi convoy after 60+ semi convoy leaving Iraq for Syria just prior to the start of the Iraq campaign?

    I remember this, too. The WMD’s are in Syria now, but small caches of sarin and mustard have been found around Bagdad.

    But no… Bush organized a world-wide intelligence conspiracy so that he could pop a cap in Saddam’s ass. Absurd.

  82. #82
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:38 pm, CantCureStupid said:

    Bush is a fiscal drunkard… he not only refuses to cut spending (which he should have done to offset the expenses of the war), he spends more EVERY CHANCE HE GETS!!!

  83. #83
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:41 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    Here you go, a plug-in electric car. Gets 62 miles on a charge, and has a gas engine if that won’t get you to and from work. It’s from China, not the Small 3. Ford won’t have one for at least 5 years they say. Detroit, wake up – China has eaten your lunch.

  84. #84
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:41 pm, sonofdy said:

    Bush spends like he is trying to be a democrat.

  85. #85
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:42 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    The Iraq war was based on really really really bad intelligence from multiple sources all saying the same thing

    Uh, not all the sources said the same thing. But the people who were correct were mocked and treated as outcasts.

    After doing my homework, I really do now feel like we were lied to about Iraq. And I also think that Iraq never attacked us, therefore we should not have attacked them.

    I don’t think we should stay in the UN and pursue their globalist agendas either.

    I have changed my opinion a lot in the past 3 years.

  86. #86
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:45 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    Chrysler’s “sales bank” so reminds me of soviet production…just keep making something that nobody wants…what’s wrong with that stupe in the whitehouse??

    I’m surprised they paint them different colors. All black this year or until they run out of paint… Or those ugly mustard brown colors favored by public housing…

  87. #87
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:46 pm, CantCureStupid said:

    I don’t think we should stay in the UN and pursue their globalist agendas either.

    I am with you on this. The UN is a monetary black hole and an abject failure.

  88. #88
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:49 pm, 57fender said:

    I called again from a different phone and am currently on hold. You can bypass the WH Operator by using this number to the White House Comment line – 202.456.1111. It is hard to get through, but please keep trying….and be nice.

  89. #89
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:49 pm, Bill Grant said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 12:58 pm, Send_Me said:

    In case you’ve missed it, the “waste/socialism/Chicago-style corruption/classlessness/incompetence” seen right now is from a R-E-P-U-B-L-I-C-A-N president and his appointees.

    You aint seen nothing yet. To be fair, Bush hasn’t been “classless, corrupt or “Chicago style” in his incompetence. You and the rest of the country are going to get a nice big fat heaping dose of all of the above and guess what, that is the best case scenario. If on the off chance Obama doesn’t blow it in a way that wont be inescapable to even to someone who would vote for Alan Keyes you are going to see s solidification of power on the left. Not even Alan will be able to help you.

    Now, are you referring to Bush’s appointees

    Thanks for being deliberately obtuse… as well as the other kind.

    It’s not like Republican George Ryan, his predecessor, is doing much better right now.

    He did better than Keyes… He got elected in order to screw up.

  90. #90
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:53 pm, Kevin K. said:

    alohaGuy said: (#83)

    Here you go, a plug-in electric car. Gets 62 miles on a charge, and has a gas engine if that won’t get you to and from work. It’s from China, not the Small 3. Ford won’t have one for at least 5 years they say. Detroit, wake up – China has eaten your lunch.

    I’ll bet that they don’t have the US federal and Californian governments’ required safety and emissions (when the gas engine kicks in) and other regulatory demands either.

    Governmental requirements are almost equally at fault for the problems of the Big Three.

  91. #91
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:53 pm, Bill Grant said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:06 pm, John Deaux said:

    But Obscure McNobody is the true conservative in this race and I have to vote my principles.

    Obscure McNobody is a RINO and a Daddy Yankee fan, Ill just stay at home or vote for a truther if he gets nominated.

  92. #92
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:54 pm, FilmLadd said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:49 pm, Bill Grant said:

    You aint seen nothing yet. To be fair, Bush hasn’t been “classless, corrupt or “Chicago style” in his incompetence.

    Welllll…. I’m not so sure about that. Bush’s bailout mania behavior is reminiscent of his using the government to help him get a stadium built and making him rich, etc.

    Putting a gun to my head and making me personally bailout banks and companies is VERY Chicago.

  93. #93
    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:55 pm, JHSII said:

    MarcoPolo #85

    After doing my homework, I really do now feel like we were lied to about Iraq. And I also think that Iraq never attacked us, therefore we should not have attacked them.

    I was just curious – in WWII neither Germany nor Italy attacked us on Dec 7, 1941 – are you saying that we should have ignored them too?

  94. #94
    On December 16th, 2008 at 2:02 pm, Flyoverman said:

    And I also think that Iraq never attacked us

    I guess over 300 SAM and AAA firings at our aircraft by Iraq during their UN MANDATED patrols of the Iraq no fly zones between 1991 and 2002 don’t count?

    Might be an interesting point if you care to try to make it to any of the pilots who were in those planes. Let me know when you do, as I’d like to photograh the conversation….

    If you want to know why we invaded Iraq you might look at a map sometime. NO BRAINER.

  95. #95
    On December 16th, 2008 at 2:03 pm, Weary Citizen said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 1:53 pm, Bill Grant said:

    I thought I heard alarm bells going off. Was the alarm at the GOP HQ that signaled somebody typed in “republican” and “lesser of two evils” in a post at the MM website (you guys have a heck of filter over there). And Bill shows up attacking legitmately perturbed conservatives and defending the undefendable GOP actions over the past 8 years. How can you continue to defend them? I am not saying never vote for a republican but seriously the organization is in disarray due to their own ineptness. I also noticed you never post on any other subject. Just threads that mention mcamnesty or the GOP recent idiotic moves.

  96. #96
    On December 16th, 2008 at 2:11 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    I hear all of you, and I used to feel the same way that all of you did. But I changed my mind.

    I don’t want to argue with you, partly because I used to be you.

  97. #97
    On December 16th, 2008 at 2:12 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    I guess over 300 SAM and AAA firings at our aircraft by Iraq during their UN MANDATED patrols of the Iraq no fly zones between 1991 and 2002 don’t count?

    Not according to the UN.

  98. #98
    On December 16th, 2008 at 2:13 pm, JHSII said:

    Weary Citizen – Bill still believes that McLame was a Conservative!!

  99. #99
    On December 16th, 2008 at 2:14 pm, emjem24 said:

    huggybear said:

    Our country will be paying for decades to come for his entire presidency, in the form of higher taxes and massive inflation. In 8 short years, he doubled the national debt. So far he has spent hundreds of billions of dollars we do not have on a war we did not want and do not need. This is your president. This is the man you defended (wait, continue to defend. WTF?) by calling people “deranged” and “unhinged” for not liking him. And now, with your 11th hour complaints about his incompetence, you demonstrate your own.

    He spent the past 8 years borrowing money from your children. Nice that you’ve finally caught on, but it’s a little too late.

    Please, get off your high horse. I love how uninvolved civilians who know jack about the military can suddenly make pronouncements about an “unnecessary” war like they read it off a fortune cookie. What would you have done in Pres. Bush’s shoes? With the information that he had? It is always easy to prounounce something as a “failure” when you’ve never even been involved in the decision-making. It’s nice to know that because of liberals, we know the difference between success and failure.

    Why are are we in Kosovo? You know, the war that Madame Secretary Albright decided to involve the US in? Why do we have an Africa Command? How ’bout Korea? Germany? Do you even understand what’s going on in the military? Or do you just get your information from a media (and a society) that continues to look down on the military?

    I think you (and others who look unfavorably on the Iraq War) owe more to people like my husband, Terrig’s husband, and other military members than that level of disrespect. Americans sit in their cushy foreclosed homes, bemoaning how they can’t get the newest IPhone, while people who actually give a damn about their country are fighting for it, doing something good. Your moral prism (whatever it is) doesn’t jive with the progress and sacrifice that have been made by our military. It’s now en vogue to take a crap on the military because Americans are historically absent-minded, short-sighted, and ignorant people.

    People disagree with Pres. Bush just like they do with Obummer (you know the liberals who don’t like his cabinet picks). While I fault Pres. Bush for his management of the war, I don’t fault him for the tough decision he had to make in REAL TIME. I’m sure the deaths of our military members will haunt Pres. Bush forever. Will the deaths of our troops in Somalia or Kosovo haunt Clinton?

    Pres. Bush has spent like a drunken sailor. I do not fault him for the military spending (except for the waste done by contractors) but I do fault him for not keeping spending in check for everything else. Pres. Bush wants to think that he can save the car companies which will stave off the inevitable. That is what people have a problem with… that he can’t practice some tough love in an era where Americans don’t know much about sacrifice, saving, or prudent spending.

  100. #100
    On December 16th, 2008 at 2:22 pm, John Deaux said:

    On December 16th, 2008 at 2:13 pm, JHSII said:
    Weary Citizen – Bill still believes that McLame was a Conservative!!

    In four years, he’ll look like Goldwater by comparison.

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