Enviro-nitwits of the day
Seattle’s no-salt policy is endangering lives. It’s just the latest example of enviro-nitwit-ism from greenies in the Puget Sound, who would rather force commuters to risk accidents than “pollute” salty sea water with more salt.
Oy:
To hear the city’s spin, Seattle’s road crews are making “great progress” in clearing the ice-caked streets.
But it turns out “plowed streets” in Seattle actually means “snow-packed,” as in there’s snow and ice left on major arterials by design.
“We’re trying to create a hard-packed surface,” said Alex Wiggins, chief of staff for the Seattle Department of Transportation. “It doesn’t look like anything you’d find in Chicago or New York.”
The city’s approach means crews clear the roads enough for all-wheel and four-wheel-drive vehicles, or those with front-wheel drive cars as long as they are using chains, Wiggins said.
The icy streets are the result of Seattle’s refusal to use salt, an effective ice-buster used by the state Department of Transportation and cities accustomed to dealing with heavy winter snows.
“If we were using salt, you’d see patches of bare road because salt is very effective,” Wiggins said. “We decided not to utilize salt because it’s not a healthy addition to Puget Sound.”
Instead, they’re using sand — which is even more damaging to the environment, as other city officials point out:
“We never use sand,” said Ann Williams, spokeswoman for Denver’s Department of Public Works. “Sand causes dust, and there’s also water-quality issues where it goes into streets and into our rivers.”
End result of this moron policy?
“Sunday was full of car crashes, even after several pleas from State Patrol and local police to stay off the roads.
The State Patrol responded to 157 collisions Sunday in King County. …
Between noon and midnight on Saturday, the State Patrol responded to 246 collisions … in King County.” “Snow: Sunday Traffic accidents by the numbers”
Happy Festivus, Seattleites.
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- From the “You Must be kidding!” Dept.: Enviro Nuts in Seattle, Washington Refuse to Salt roads! | Political Byline
- Seattle Officials: Environmentalists or Skinflints? « Grand Rants
- Of Salt and Cinders - Holiday Ruminations | NeoConstant
- Ace of Spades HQ
- Bent Notes » Blog Archive » Those wacky Seattle greens prove once and for all that human life is way down their list of concerns
- YES! New level of PC stupidity reached! « The Daley Gator
- Leaning Straight Up » Seattle becomes the eco laughing stock of the snow covered world
- ButAsForMe! » Enviro-nitwits of the day
- BelchSpeak » Post Topic » Darwinism In Action: Seattle Refuses to Use Salt to Melt Icy Roads
- Environuts Create Ski Slopes Out of Streets | Pirates! Man Your Women!
- Obama, Blagojevich - Snow Job In Seattle: « Riggword Weblog
- Seattle’s salt-free snow response raises hackles | csmonitor.com
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I hope the families of the first people killed in these car crashes sue the crap out of the City of Seattle for refusing to use a proven method to make the roads safer. And I hope the City loses big time.
I can hear it now…”oh, but so many more will die if we don’t care more about the environment now!” I’m sure the families will feel so lucky to have been martyred for this BS cause.
EVERY single one of those accidents should be compensated for not by the insurance companies, but by the city of Seattle. No bail-outs for the city either!!
Of course, if global warming were for real then there wouldn’t be any snow or ice anywhere, duh.
“If we were using salt, you’d see patches of bare road because salt is very effective,” Wiggins said. “We decided not to utilize salt because it’s not a healthy addition to Puget Sound.”
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It’s also “not healthy” to be seriously injured/killed in an accident that could have been avoided if your city had treated the roads they way they should have.
Salt is harmless. It melts ice, which can be harmful when on public roads.
What is so complicated about this?
They need more oxygen up there or something. They got no common sense to display.
You’re too kind.
At the very least, the people who made the decision not to use salt are idiots.
We don’t want to have any salt run-off into the water….. even though it’s SALT WATER….
Just googling I saw where they dumped a bunch of tires into that area of water back in the 70’s to try and form an artificial reef…..
But now they can’t even salt the streets – making them driveable & safe?
Wisconsin may not be perfect, but at least it’s not Seattle!
The left side of the Bell curve takes over…
Yeah, salt water in the ocean – I believe it’s the Morton’s Effect and Al Gore is selling sodium chloride credits – for mankind you understand…
Wait a minute. Chains damage tires, causing more rubber polution as tires need to be replaced more often.
Four-wheel drive cars use too much gas increasing green house gases.
___________________________________
Reminds me of the environuts who demanded scrubbers for the electrical plants east of the Grand Canyon. Some mathematical wizard figured out that the environmental impact of the mining and trucking of the material for the scrubbers created far more pollution.
Of course the rate payers of Phoenix have had to pay for the Environuts.
This type of stuff is one reason I could never live there.
LMAO… if they think their car insurance rates were high BEFORE this… just wait until the Ins. industry re-rates them after they get wind of this stupid policy.
And they’re worried about pollution???
Another consequence of their policy will be to have oil and gas spills as a result of these accidents… and the petro-sheen will run off into where????…..
The Puget Sound…
Idiots
Just read about the two guys freezing to death. One was delivering papers, and other returning home. He freezes 1 mile from his house near Sheboygan.
With this country and the those in charge, it’s a constant case of the “tail wagging the dog”. Common sense has left those we’ve elected to do their jobs.
As to Denver, they used to use sand or small gravel on their snow covered streets as I received enough chipped windshields on rental cars over the years because they wouldn’t use salt.
On December 23rd, 2008 at 3:26 pm, NJ-Aviator said:
And they’re worried about pollution???
Another consequence of their policy will be to have oil and gas spills as a result of these accidents… and the petro-sheen will run off into where????…..
The Puget Sound…
Idiots
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Excellent point. Which is worse, salt on the roads, or gasoline (and other chemicals) spilling out of a wrecked car?
Why not extract salt from water that came from Puget Sound? You can’t say it’s harmful if it was there in the first place.
Well here in Waukesha (WI) they aren’t putting down salt either because we have had too much snow & they can’t afford it. So I am not driving. I fear I may be trapped indoors all winter if this snow keeps up.
Here in Buffalo, we’re up to our waists in snow that was dumped over the weekend. If anyone ever tried to suggest going without salt here, they wouldn’t be allowed to finish the sentence.
On December 23rd, 2008 at 3:29 pm, babbledabble said:
Well here in Waukesha (WI) they aren’t putting down salt either because we have had too much snow & they can’t afford it. So I am not driving. I fear I may be trapped indoors all winter if this snow keeps up.
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Hope it lets up. One or two “snowed-in” days may be fun, but it doesn’t take long after that for cabin fever to set in.
“So I am not driving. I fear I may be trapped indoors all winter if this snow keeps up.”
Given the November 4th results – it may not be a bad idea to stay there til 2012….. ( or at least the 2010 mid-terms )
Don’t give them any ideas about the using the salt from seawater; just imagine the taxes when they decide they can only use naturally sun-dried sea salt; that stuff’s like $14 a pound in the grocery!
It does, however go great with arugula.
Here in Hawaii we’re….never mind….
Dallas uses sand too. I moved down here from Cincinnati four years ago. I tried to point out the effectiveness of salt on ice and snow. The locals told me that salt ruins cars. I tried to point out to them that automobile accidents has a tendency to ruin cars as well. And that salt washes off, whereas busted fenders and bumpers can not be repaired by a car wash.
Clinging to your guns and bibles.
If those people in Seattle get any dumber, we can reclassify them as trees and declare the place a protected area and post keep out signs.
On December 23rd, 2008 at 3:41 pm, AlohaGuy said:
Here in Buffalo, we’re up to our waists in snow that was dumped over the weekend.
Here in Hawaii we’re….never mind….
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Mele Kalikimaka (And forgive me if I spelled it wrong)to you and all!
Maybe they’re hoping to permanently reduce the carbon footprints of some commuters…you know, plow your car into a ditch or a tree and die. You’ll save the planet!
Where I work, they wanted to ban salt because it was bad for the environment. They couldn’t seem to get it that slippery sidewalks = falls = lawsuits, until someone said they’d just cut the positions of the anti-salt folks to pay for additional insurance.
Sretan Bozic y veseli Novi Godina!
Never let science or safety get in the way of political correctness.
DUHHHHHH
What makes Wiz-con-sin more tolerable to Seattle (and most any other locale) is the ratio of taverns to citizens. Bottoms up jrlingreenbay!
Too bad your Packers couldn’t outlast the hapless Bears last night!
Babbledabble, I’ll get out and drive my gas-guzzling Silverado and try to pump more greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere. Maybe, I can cause enough global warming to thaw you out.
Just last week the local news was doing a story about ecofriendly salt brine they were applying to the mountain passes here in WA state. They use the left over whey from cheese making, add just a little more salt and spray it on the roads. The highways are nice and clear its just when you get into cities that the roads suck. Its kind of fun me driving along in my old El Camino w/chains and the SUVs are in the ditch.
Up to your waist? We had 13.5 inches last week for a total of about 30 so far this month, more last night & more on the way. The streets are snow packed because the plows just skim off the top layer & push it into our driveway.
And yes I have cabin fever. Why do you think they call me babbledabble? I am already talking to myself.
Man its really bad in LA today. We had, like, a lot of rain yesterday, and like now its really sunny and like around 55 degrees. Way cool, but really bad at the same time man!
Far out.
On December 23rd, 2008 at 3:50 pm, Dexter Alarius said:
Sretan Bozic y veseli Novi Godina!
—————————————
Not THAT’S a holiday greeting I’ve never received before!
Right back atcha!
250 accidents in one county sounds roughly comparable to what we’ve seen in the Detroit area over the last couple of days.
Where we know how to drive in snow, and use salt in abundance.
Given the relative rarity of major snowfalls in the Seattle area, it sounds to me much more likely that the accident rate there is due to driver inexperience rather than which deicing/traction improving methods are in use.
It also strikes me that Seattle has an abundance of sand, and that Detroit has an abundance of rock salt – and not vice versa.
Sorry, but this strikes me as major overreaching.
I bet if anyone bothered to look, they’d find some real news out there somewhere.
OMG. Did y’all read the rest of the story? How irresponsible is this?
I hope no one in hilly Seattle needs help from police the next few days ’cause they ain’t gonna get it.
Environmentalists always choose policy over people. As long as they, themselves, suffer no particular harm, they applaud policies that make life harder for others.
On December 23rd, 2008 at 4:19 pm, denver republican said:
OMG. Did y’all read the rest of the story? How irresponsible is this?
That leaves many drivers, including Seattle police, pretty much on their own until nature does to the snow what the sand can’t: melt it.
The city’s patrol cars are rear-wheel drive. And even with tire chains, officers are avoiding hills and responding on foot, according to a West Precinct officer.
I hope no one in hilly Seattle needs help from police the next few days ’cause they ain’t gonna get it.
————————————–
OMG indeed. I hadn’t even thought about how this could affect the police’s ability to do their job.
I cant say that I’ve seen many gas/electric hybrids on I-5 while community to/from work in Seattle.
<3 my Jeep Cherokee
People in the Pacific Northwest have never used salt on the roads because it rusts out cars.
It’s that simple.
Using salt on the roads is dumb.
They don’t call the East coast and the Midwest the “rust belt” for no reason.
Pardon to anyone who may have already come up with this, but I think I can solve their problem. All they have to do is set up a desalination plant, then use the salt residue from the purified water on the streets. That way, they’re only returning actual sea salt to the ocean. (I know, I know, it’s doing it the hard way, but what other way do liberals ever do things?)
Down here they’re much more efficient. When we get ice or snow, they just close all the major roads. No travel, no accidents.
Where is that Global Warming when you need it?
Yup, it’s a lot healthier for cars and drivers to get T-boned by somebody sliding through a stop sign.
On December 23rd, 2008 at 4:52 pm, docflash said:
Where is that Global Warming when you need it?
—————————————
Oooooh, snap!
dumba$$e$. you dont want hard packed streets or intersections. why does everyone always want to follow in the exact same path as the car in front of them??????
If you are not going to sand, salt or magnesium chloride the roads then you want to drive in the snow itself for traction. its like driving on a beach if you will just stay off the ice.
Geez… and stay out of the left hand lane or off the roads completly if you cant drive in bad weather too. And while Im at it. All of the tourists who are afraid of mountains and snow – DONT COME TO COLORADO. You can DIE, because Denver is surrounded by 10000ft cliffs on all sides!!!!! One mistake and its over!!! I cant believe they even built roads here!!
Go to Cali, Utah or Vermont first and practice there.
Enviro-nitwit greenies in the Puget Sound and assorted tree hugging jerks of all stripes have never had a problem hurting or killing their fellow humans for a Touchy Feely moment. From the ban on DDT to spiking trees to NOT salting the roads people die and what do we get from the Eco-Freaks? “Helps with over population”. Of course people can stay home. Just how many days of work, school, shopping and doctors appointments are they suppose to miss? Stay home? Tell that to the utility workers and see a city shut down yesterday. Alex Wiggins, chief of staff for the Seattle Department of Transportation should stay home-forever.
Yes that salt can rust out a car if you don’t hose it off once in a while-your teeth rot if you don’t brush them-we can set up a Department of Teeth Brushing and Car Chassis Rinsing for the enfeebled.
From what I remember, it didn’t work either.
Do these whack jobs ever listen to themselves and say, “I sound ridiculous!”?
Nope. The green-weinie tree-hugger standing next to them is nodding in agreement, so why would they?
I live in Minnesota (what you refer to as the “rust belt”.) We use salt, sand, etc. We have a fantastic snow removal program and can travel the main roads almost as soon as the snow stops falling. However, most of us stay home after storms if we are instructed to do so…or unless we have snowmobiles or skis. Oh, and there is a simple rust protectant we get on our cars. We have never had rust on any of our cars. Even if we did get a little rust, we use salt because it saves lives, it’s that simple.
Its one city in one county. You can probably guess which way they vote too.
The number of accidents cited in the report reflect only those handled by the state troopers, it does not count the number of accidents occurring on city streets.
On the right side of the mountains, the story is different. You won’t read about this type of cluster in say, Spokane, where they got 2 feet of snow in 24 hours. Pre-spray, salt, and sand applied.
It’s retarded. I live in Kirkland which is about 20 minutes across Lake Washington from Seattle.
Greg Nickels should be under arrest for endangering the city at large and the entire city council should be as well. That guy is running for re-election and will probably win.
The streets are not too bad in all places. Most major roads have gotten better but sand doesn’t do much besides make the roads dirtier.
A lot of the problem with these accidents is idiot drivers who think they can speed around and then they have an accident when they hit a patch of ice and lose control. The city should be sued to liquidate all of it’s money and the city council and mayor as well.
Dude!
Denver is NOT surrounded by 10,000ft cliffs! Denver is on the plains, NOT in the mountains!
And the mountains roads are perfectly safe as long as you aren’t an idiot.
Denver may not use sand, but the suburbs and the state do. Everyone uses mag cloride which keeps things from freezing in the first place, with sand on the intersections and hills. We also have lots of sunshine which usually melts things in a day or two, unless we get multiple feet of snow or a deep freeze (like the last couple of weeks).
What happens when all of the snow melts? Isn’t all of this fresh water going to dilute Puget Sound?
The comments section is awesome!
Thinking about all those cute little green cars sliding into the ditches, while the dreaded SUVs roll on amuses me to no end.
Advice to Seattle drivers: Learn how to drive’ or stay home. 4-wheel drive does NOT help you stop either…
Having lived most of my life south of the snow line I’m not sure if this is true, but I heard on some edutainment program that sugar can also be used to melt ice.
So why not use sugar? It’s more expensive to be sure, but mainly there’s no telling how many diabetic whales would go into comas as a result. Further sugar can be made into ethanol, an important fuel, and we wouldn’t want to use fuel in a transportation system, would we? Yep, obviously the Seattle-ites are very wise to just have more accidents. Clearly there’s no environmental harm in sending vehicles to the scrap heap ahead of schedule. When we get socialized health care the injuries will be taken care of as well (maybe they already have socialized health care up there?).
We’re in for a glorious future, aren’t we?
Some dim bulb wrote this: They don’t call the East coast and the Midwest the “rust belt” for no reason.
It’s called the rust belt because of the thousands of factories closed in the 1970’s to the present. You know, that thing called the industrial base of our country?
There should be an IQ test given before the moderators of this site allow people to submit posts.
Wouldn’t more salt be used by the locals for their own sidewalks, steps, and driveways everywhere west of the Cascade mountains where all things flow into Puget Sound than the city of Seattle?
I wonder.
Anybody have access to figures on tons of salt bags sold to locals in Seattle, Tacoma, Puyalup, Olympia, Everett, etc..etc…etc..?
Im sure the SAME folks that will sue the City because of the accidents were the same idiots who supported the “anti-salt” answer…
Typical.
I would expect the accident rate to decrease or eventually decrease because: 1. Most sane people probably avoid venturing out unless it’s unavoidable. 2. Many of those who do risk going out do not go fast plus some of them get stuck. 3. Darwin….
chains on front wheel drive???? LMAO it would be fun sitting and watching them try to stop fast, one wheel catches a link in packed snow and the other does not!!! tilt a whirl time.
Now that’s misspelled!
Thank you – same to you and yours
The hill people in Seattle, such as onCapitol Hill, are dim on gun ownership, as well. Let’s see…drug proliferation, inner city crime, no police vehicle access, and no personal self defense creed. Gotta love the Seattle logic!
“We’re trying to create a hard-packed surface,” said Alex Wiggins, chief of staff for the Seattle Department of Transportation. “It doesn’t look like anything you’d find in Chicago or New York.”
______________________________
Some other things made from hard packed snow, polar ice caps and glaciers.
This has nothing to do with the environment. It has everything to do with socialism and getting people out of their cars. Yes, once the insurance companies figure out that this new city policy causes more accidents, then the insurance rates will go up. Steeply. Whoops! There they go!
Those drivers that can’t afford it will be forced to give up their cars. Then the enviro-nazis will start tearing up the streets because so few people are driving.
It’s like gun control. It has nothing to do with guns; it has to do with control.
That’s all this is. Control.
My Mama always told me that stupid is as stupid does…and those damnded Seatellite people must be about dumb as a post turtle.
I going to put a classified ad up in Seattle.
“Buy a Clue for $1.00″
Ah, a story about my part of the world, and dealing with this situation as I write…
A couple things are worth pointing out:
Salt has a relatively narrow temperature range in which it works well. The use of “sand” is curious as crushed gravel is already widely used, provides excellent traction and is readily available here in the region.
Oh yeah, the local county transportation people even recycle the gravel (eg. “pick it up”) after it serves it’s usefulness.
For the record it’s not just Seattle. As far as I know neither Washington or Oregon use salt.
And they don’t use it here in the Sierra Nevada, CA — mountainous terrain, hills, valleys, etc. Makes for interesting driving at 7000′ elevation.
I’ve learned that I have no choice but to deal with it, and that’s why we all drive SUVs here. The snow plows pack down the snow (over ice) here too. And since it snows so much, you have no choice but to drive a high clearance car such as an SUV.
So much for environmentalism.
It’s always interesting to see the greenie liberal tourons (tourist + moron) coming here to ski from the SF Bay Area who have no idea how to drive in this stuff.
You called it. The environment is just the hook to get people to voluntarily cede control of their lives to the collective.
Fear not, the libtard nannies in Madison are working to correct that.
I’ve never wrecked a car on snowy roads in Michigan, but I’ve had a car whose frame simply rusted away. Salt also kills plants in the spring. In my family we’ve had numerous cars in ditches over the years, but they’ve never required any repairs as a result. Snow’s not that dangerous unless you’re being willfully ignorant of the conditions.
And, no, there’s nothing inherently dangerous in driving on a packed surface. That’s how side roads in Michigan are kept for the majority of the winter (only main routes are salted). Driving in poor conditions simply requires giving yourself plenty of room for any manuevers.
But yeah, not clearing busy roads is a bad idea, as the traffic volume simply won’t allow proper winter driving techniques.
Been snowing / freezing for over a week now and today was the first time I drove down a plowed road. I’m talking Highway99 in Everett. I-5 was packed snow and ice, it looked like Stevens Pass
We used to salt the roads to prevent ice patches on roads uniformly…at least Marysville per se is salting the main roads now..however the (Snohomish) County hasn’t done much of a twit except pour sand on the ice on their roads.
So as a result right now there are spots where you’ve got 10-12″ deep “ice potholes” forming at busy intersections like the one north of Marysville called “Smokey Point”…if one does not crash into something, one’s suspension will be destroyed.
Also no one can get any rock salt to melt ice on sidewalks/driveways right now..there has been a run on this item…or is the state putting the breaks on people being able to get the salt by controlling supply?-I’m really not sure-I just know we can’t get any ice melting salt for at least another week.
I only travel certain roads before 9am and then after 9pm at night because there is nothing but bumper to bumper traffic otherwise until you get to I-5.
Global Warming? Where is it when we need it!
By the way Marysville is about 35 miles north of Seattle, WA.
This is the same city that didn’t want bonfires on their beaches, because it caused global warming.
GEES!
I picked my moniker on purpose. It says not everyone in and around Seattle is beyond help. Conservatives live here too.
The amount of snow/ice we have around here is not normal. Usually the lower elevations get snow and it is gone in a day or two, washed away by temperature and rain. We are now in day 13 of snow on the ground, and it’s deep and it’s icy.
The roads range from impassible to bumpy ice to ice rinks!
Today I saw a Albertsons semi-truck stuck trying to pull up into the stores drive, a block down the street a Safeway semi had met a similar fate trying to make a sharp turn on an icy spot. Both were within sight of their destinations and both had chains fail!
More snow on way tonight, Christmas shopping is slipping further and further behind!
Okay it’s only day 6, I added a week for the schools closing last Wednesday for the snow on their half day- even though it never snowed a bit that day!
The NEA here takes the half days seriously, and they can’t have people messing up their pizza parties after school by having to to worry about students or parents witnessing their “work”!
Maybe Al Gore can fire up the jets on his private plane and melt the snow off the streets.
More proof that environmentalism is more about feeling good than producing effective results.
And there is a far cry between “conservationism,” which most responsible Americans believe in, and “environmentalism,” which is going to continue to encroach on public policy to the detriment of the American people.
These enviro nitwits sure get salty about all this garbage…
The newer road salts are much boader temp range and less corrisive than rock salt.
Are Seattle officials giving out fines to people who shovel their sidewalks and driveways with metal shovels and put down salt when they’re done?
I don’t know about Michigan, but Seattle proper is built on a couple of hills. The term “skid road” came from there – the logging industry would skid them down the hill into Puget Sound. Just like your car would on a frozen packed street.
Incidently, Seattlites are required by law to say to everyone “Normally it doesn’t really snow here…”
In truth I haven’t seen a snow fall in this region of this size since the early 1970s (like 1st -3rd grade)…it wouldn’t be a big deal if they would take care of the d#$n ice patches on the roads with ‘Salt….which I can’t purchase.
BTW-Stay safe during the holidays DadinSeattle…it is good to know I’m not the only conservative resident of Western Washington.
OOOOoooo just wait until they find out what the Sand does to their sewer system! Salt dissolves in water/slush and flows away, that’s why cities that can use it will dump it on their streets.
Sand, on the other hand, will clog the drains causing flooded streets and clogged sewers come spring.
Hey Seattle! I have a great idea: instead of using dangerous salt, why not use a naturally occurring, eco-friendly mineral; Sodium Chloride.
It’s apparent that their ban on dihydrogen oxide is failing miserably. Just look at all the havoc it’s causing. Al Gore really needs to look into this.
heh-heh…
The local news just showed a poll; the results showed 79% thought the roads should be salted!
Of course the 21% represents the officials, whom make these brainy decisions!
and the 79% voted for those brainiacs. They voted for Odopey also, he’s close by in Hawaii, maybe he can zoom over and melt the ice for them.
But you can’t disturb the Messiah… for he is sunning himself before he works his miracles (according to the leftwits)!
Sorry dadinseattle the poll numbers representing “yes” to salting the roads has dropped to 73% and the ignorant “no” vote has risen to 27 % at 11:49 pm PST on that Q13 poll…the Obama voters are hard at work.
I hope they enjoy their mechanic’s/bodyshop’s bills