High-speed rail to nowhere
Bay Area officials are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of tens of billions of dollars in tax subsidies for a high-speed rail line from Oakland to Los Angeles. This is so wrong on so many levels. Can anyone say “High-Speed Rail to Nowhere?”
With the economy in recession, California’s plan to ask the federal government for billions of dollars to help build the nation’s first high-speed rail system might seem like wishful thinking rather than a feasible financial strategy.
But transportation officials say that California’s high-speed rail project seems to be on a fast track to a hefty federal contribution – perhaps as much as $15 billion to $20 billion.
That optimism in the face of a dire economic outlook is the product of the priorities of President-elect Barack Obama’s administration; the likelihood of a big federal infrastructure investment; growing concern over climate change; the volatility of gas prices; Californians’ backing of the $10 billion high-speed rail bond measure and strong support for the project from the state’s potent congressional delegation, including Sen. Dianne Feinstein and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
“It seems like the stars are aligned,” said Rod Diridon of San Jose, a member of the High Speed Rail Authority.
Building the San Francisco-to-Los Angeles and Anaheim line that will be the spine of the system will cost between $32.8 billion and $33.6 billion, according to the High Speed Rail Authority’s business report. Extensions built later would cost another $12 billion. In addition to the $10 billion from state bond sales, the authority is counting on $12 billion to $16 billion in federal funds plus $6.5 billion to $7.5 billion in private investment and $2 billion to $3 billion in local contributions.
Okay, where to begin? It currently costs $49 one-way to fly Southwest from Oakland to Los Angeles. That flight takes about an hour and fifteen minutes. How much ya think it’ll cost to ride the high-speed line from O-town to L.A.? For comparison’s sake, government-funded Amtrak trips from Washington to New York’s Penn Station cost about $133 one-way on the Joe Biden-endorsed Acela (if they’re running). That trip takes about two hours and 45 minutes.
More data for you: It’ll take you about six-seven hours to drive from Oakland to Los Angeles on the I-5– and at current gas prices, it’ll cost you a mere $25 (with a few more bucks if you stop by In-N-Out!)
Bottom line: Who in their right mind would take this high-speed rail line? And why should people in Des Moines and Miami and Chicago pay for California commuters to ride it?
The bureaucrats say it’ll cost $30 billion, plus $12 billion for every extension — which means you should triple the asking price. There’s no need to guess whether this thing will be a money pit. Just look at the Los Angeles MTA black hole.
One last point: Who will get all the vaunted jobs the high-speed rail line boondoggle promises to deliver? Bloated unions.
The more things change…
***
Reader Terry adds: “I don’t know just how much you know about California topography, but the High Speed Train will be doing about 30 mph when it is going over the mountains outside Bakersfield. Someone should do a story on this issue by itself. It is a joke without a punchline.”
On a related note from the WSJ: Bridges to everywhere!
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Categories: Pork
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We should have a moratorium on all federal funds going to California till they pay us back the trillions they cost us by starting this recession. They got the benefit of the high housing prices, but dump the costs on all of us.
I thought we voted this down here? Oh, it doesn’t matter how we vote in Ca. they just do it anyway.
Or (4) Judges unset the rule of the people.
Yeah, let’s build a high speed rail line right on top of the San Andreas fault line.
BRILLIANT.
Rumor has it that the name of the bullet train will be the “Perv Express”
Don’t let the kiddies ride alone.
Curious…I wonder what the rate of return will be in taxes, fares and other fees if and when this gets going.
As you’ve already mentioned Michelle, one need only look at how well Amtrak is run/funded.
Isn’t it obvious?
It’s for the children…or Gorebal Warming!
/bigtime sarc
The “rail line” isn’t. It’s actually a MagLev. Magnetic Levitation allows for very high speed (up to 500kph) without the use of iron wheels or rails. If any commuter train is built, it should be of the MagLev type.
With that said, I don’t support contruction of this line. I believe it would be under-used and taxpayer-subsidized to keep the fares in line with the airline industry.
Superior technology. Inferior politics.
Yeah, I thought so too! But these are politicians who are pushing this. Who cares about some geological feature that could destroy in someday. We need it NOW!
Being from the People’s Socialist Quagmire of California, I am ashamed of myself for not thinking of this!
It would be like putting a mobile home park in Oklahoma.
The politicians in Chicago are pushing for a Chicago-St Louis hi speed rail link. The problem is that nobody goes to St Louis from Chicago.
The politicians continue to experiment with ideas using our tax dollars. We need to make it all stop.
How much man-mde carbon will the construction of this project create? Will offsets be required? What affect on endangered species and indigenous vegetation will this have?
I predict that special interests and lawyers will enrich themselves at taxpayer expense, yay!
Why should Federal Money be used for a Transportation system within a single state? How does that benefit the Taxpayer? I Know, stupid question. It’s not my money, anymore.
They’re rubbing their hands in glee because it’s billions for them to pass around in patronage. This thing will never be finished–the unions won’t let it.
Except for the “Bridge To No Where” (Alaska) has any powerful and high-n-mighty politician ever didn’t get what they wanted?
Repeat after me: Job, jobs, jobs. The survival of the middle class depends on enough good paying jobs to support families. This is why unions must GROW.
It’s a fallacy that college is for everyone. Look at the stop-out rate (45%). There has to be an alternative for families with no college education to still be middle class (i.e. make $30 an hour). We need to create and protect these kind of jobs at ALL COSTS.
Actually, I think seveneleventy has it right.
The liberals in the CA legislature will start this. Then the liberal environmentalists will demand an environmental impact report. The liberal lawyers will get an injunction from the liberal courts to stop construction until we are told about the endangered cockroach we’re saving by spending the extra 20 billion dollars.
Once construction begins, the liberal unions will demand union labor. CA also has a law about minority hiring percentages when government money is used. So, the liberals will appease the minorities by forcing the hiring of a specific number of minority contractors.
When it’s done, the liberals will ride it while the intelligent people will continue to use the cheaper alternatives of automobile and air travel.
You’ll notice the same thread running through all of this.
You’re right Michelle, why on Earth would I want to support another bunch of anti-liberty union thugs? Modern unions represent corruption and socialism. They wish to control industry through threat of violence rather than investment. To hell with all unions and their democrap cronies.
Texas was supposed to get one of them there fancy high speed rail lines too!
But, after the super-collider fiasco, a project that was basically 90% complete before the plug was pulled…I think Texas put most of these high dollar projects on the far-back-burner….
including the fancy high-speed train line that was meant to go from Dallas to Houston to San Antonio.
So now we have a 52-mile diameter ring in the ground that we should use for something right? Maybe we could use it as a test-track for California’s new choo-choo train project that I’m sure they’ll get one way or another. What a waste!
If the train is a MagLev, this is wrong. MagLevs can maintain a pretty good speed even on a steep grade. Remember, there is no friction with a MagLev.
If we want to stop this, we need to get our facts straight. If the train is to be a MagLev, speed and topography are not negatives.
But not to worry, even the liberal press in CA will run the “why-are-we-building-a-bullet-train-right-next-to-the-San-Andreas-fault” story. Even they know what will bring in viewers and readers.
Sounds like the same hi-speed train the legislature is building from the United States of America to the United Socialist States of Obama.
Why not build a passenger train system that runs on time and actually makes money? I’ll ride it; I prefer trains or my own car, so I can see everything from the amber waves of grain to the purple mountains majesty. I say build a freaking bridge to Hawaii and run a train on it! It would make more sense than pulling one cent out of my a## and tossing it into the toilets that are the annexed Latino cities of San Francisco or Los Angeles.
We have our Light Rail in and ready to roll here in the Phoenix Metropolitan area. It is called the ValleyMetroSmartMove.
They have a really neat slogan:
You can’t there from here or here from there but you can pay for it anyway; Have a nice day!
The Red Line starts tomorrow-Saturday the 27th: Red means stop.
Arizona is way too close to the People’s Republic of Kalifornia.
sooo, lets see. Pelosi can cut the opening ribbon at he starting station put in to time with the Folsom Street Fair and , Maxine Waters will do the other end at the Watts station. I just know that Virginians can’t hardly wait to fund this wonderful idea. Oh the excitement of it all.
Obama will be so proud.
Hell, just going to In-and-Out is worth the trip through the San Joaquin Valley (if you’ve never had a Double Double from In-and-Out, you don’t know what you’re missing…Burgerville in the Portland, OR area is second, btw, to In-and-Out)…
Dont worry about this project ever making dollar one. It will never happen. The ‘project planners’ already have the 10 billion in bonds to get the ‘planning’ started.
Can anyone to explain how the politicians in Washington will vote against this project with that much cash comming their way in lobbyist ‘funding’?
This project, IF it is ever actually attempted (think border fence), will cost far in excess of 200 billion to build.
The ongoing annual operating payments will be in the bilions as well, as there are supposed to be 400,000+ permanent jobs associated with this project.
In the mid-90s, Apple Computer came up with something called eWorld. That was in the days when the lower case “e” was all the rage instead of the lower case “i” like today. It was nicknamed EmptyWorld because no one used it!
We now have a new name for the bullet train between SF and LA – eRail! It will be EmptyRail because no one will use it. And, if the San Andreas fault shifts one inch, it will be DeRail!
Sweet!
Here in Phoenix we have the Phoenix Area Rapid Transit (Phart) trains that go no where and cost 5 billion to build. They travel an average speed of 22 MPH and snarl traffic as they take up a lane that could have been used by cars. We voted the damn thing down at least twice that I know of and they still built it. Thirty billion to build 300 miles of track and here they spent 5 billion to build 20 miles of track. If you believe they can build 300 miles of track for 30 billion I have some beach front property in Arizona on sale for cheap.
Well, since they DO NOT actually have the technoligy to make this project work today, it is very difficult to judge the size of this foot print.
Since there have still details to work out regarding the number and locations of the stops, a lot of graft is still changing hands, they have yet to determine the actual running speeds. So far they are somewhere around 287 mph peaks, which nothing today can achieve.
But hey, these details are part of what the first 10 billion are for.
Topography is always a negative. Even if you negate the effects of friction (which wheels actually do a half decent job of doing), you still have the ‘work’ involved in moving the heavy object to a higher elevation.
Remember that as you lift something up, you are increasing its potential energy…thus you must apply the equal amount of energy to get it up there.
Also consider that high-speed only applies to a straight shot rail. In the mountains, there will not only be an upward slope but the cost effective path is usually pretty curvey.
I don’t know the math behind the 30mph claim and it may be bunk, but there is no way this trail will run full tilt through mountains or even hills.
I agree, King of Fools. The 500 kilometer per hour speed for a MagLev is for flat rural areas of track. The advantages of MagLev over iron wheels and rails is that top speed can be reached rather quickly. The train can also be slowed quickly and smoothly.
When I said topography was not a negative I meant that a MagLev can handle hills and mountains much better than a standard wheeled train. I just don’t think we should hang our opposition to this fiasco-in-the-making on topography.
On the other hand, if the CA legislature chooses a French-style bullet train (iron wheels and rails) then yes! Topography does become an issue.
Is there no limit to your idiocy?
People should get jobs for $30 an hour because they are delivering productivity to their employer that is worth $30 an hour, not because some union extorts the wage from the employer.
If a business pays someone $30 an hour for $15 dollars worth of work, the business eventually goes bust (think Big 3 auto companies). Then a lot of people don’t have $30 an hour jobs. They don’t even have the $15 an hour job they should have had for the work they performed and the productivity they produced.
The alternative to letting wages be set by the market on the basis of a dollar paid for a dollar EARNED (not extorted) is to have more and more bailouts and / or a world where a loaf of bread costs $10, a pair of basic Wrangler jeans costs $150, and the average car costs $100,000.
The bailout pot of money is rapidly drying up (that money has been borrowed or printed so it is going to have to be paid back someday or we can simply devalue our currency so a dollar becomes a dime). If you have a country with $10 a loaf bread, you will not be middle class with a $30 an hour job. And, under your plan, those unlucky enough not have a UNION JOB and who make only $10 an hour will really be hosed.
It is obvious you’ve never worked in a position that had any P & L responsibility. Go back to the kiddie table until you learn enough to be able to converse on any topic with some level of intelligence.
Another big spending boondoggle.
This thing will never be built. It’s a boondoggle from the start. I live in Fresno and I can tell you few, if any I know will ever step foot on such a train.
First off the train will dump you off in downtown L.A where you will be forced to use their public transportation to get anywhere in the Southland.
Californians don’t use public transportation, period.
I can get in my car and be in Los Angeles in 3 hours and when I get there I have my car.
Side note regarding public transportation in my state.
When I was first hired as a firefighter I used Greyhound to commute from San Jose to San Luis Obispo for my three day shifts as we only had one car.
It was not uncommon on stops in King City and Gonzales to have Mexican farm workers board with a chicken or a small goat.
This is who will use the train to L.A.. Great for them but not worth the heavy burden on taxpayers.
This is an excellent point. A while ago, I heard a discussion on talk radio about about eastern cities (19th century) versus western cities (20th century). Eastern cities tend to be vertical. Prime reasons for using public transportation. You need just a few stops and everything is within walking distance.
On the other hand, western cities tend to be horizontal. You will need many more stops. Walking becomes tiresome because everything is more spread out.
The problem is you can’t explain that to a liberal. Public transportation is good for you!
Who doesn’t get $15 – 20 billion from the government these days? And think of the demand from Oakland to LA, there must be at least three or four people a week that need to travel there and are afraid of flying.
Listen, if Springfield could get a monorail, why can’t LA and SF get one too? After all a monorail is sooo cool. So what if no one uses it. NYC has a monorail, and I’ve never used it but it just sooo cool. MONORAIL! just ask Homer.
Just a note – Coyote Blog (http://www.coyoteblog.com) has some excellent and data- / statistic-heavy posts on public transportation boondoggles.
From the people who cannot even manage their own restaraunt in the Capitol…..
If it was commercially viable, it would have already been built.
It would make more sense to hire people to dig holes and then fill them in.
Mantra of the Liberal.
Don’t let a crisis go unexploited.
Something else to remember.
When the I-35W bridge collapsed in Minneapolis, it was due to inefficient maintenance.
That’s where the socialists get their light rail money. They scavenge it from necessary projects.
How many bridges in CA will collapse due to bad maintenance over the years, just to support this fiasco-in-waiting?
Wow! So many issues and so little space:
- The $10B bond was a downpayment for research and planning
- Total cost estimates range from $90B to $300B
- Man in the street interviews last fall of CA voters showed that the vast majority didn’t realize that bonds have to be repaid – usually with taxpayer funds. Wasn’t this choo-choo going to be free??
- Environmentalists hate airplanes and claim a big environmental gain from stopping hundreds of flights a day in the SF-LA corridor. Earlier in 2008 Southwest Airlines was bragging about having 90 flights a day between SF/Oakland/San Jose and the LA Metro airports. That is just 1 airline! Seriously, how many people would shift to a less convenient train for the trip?
- A local light rail project in OC was proposed a few years ago. When an independent analysis was done it showed that the carbon reductions projected to come from moving people from cars onto the rails would take something like 30 to 40 years to breakeven with the carbon output of the construction phase of the project. I suspect the high speed rail project would create at least as big a negative carbon effect.
- When an earthquake hits the Bay Area, the Bay Area Rapid Transit system (BART) comes to a complete stop until physical inspection of the tracks can be completed. Any idea of how many earthquakes happen along any North-South route in CA?
- Terrorist sabotage anyone?
- These fantasies of a high speed rail in CA have been around for decades. Depending on the year they have been for LA-Las Vegas, San Diego – LA, LA-SF, etc. The only difference is this time the idiot voters actually voted to fund the dam# thing.
- Proponents claim the project will create about 200,000 construction jobs and 400,000 permanent jobs! No word on how many of those jobs will be for illegal aliens and/or union workers.
- 400,000 permanent jobs???
- Since federal funds will be used on the project that will trigger the federal Davis-Bacon Act requiring paying the “prevailing wage” (i.e. union scale and benefits) to all workers even if they are non-union. A similar move here in Orange County on a park project has yielded at least a 50% increase in projected labor costs.
- The bond measure did include provisions for oversight of how the funds are spent. Phew! Finally some sanity…did I mention that this oversight provision only kicks in after the first $770M has been spent? WTF?
Seems that in the mice type of the ballot proposition was this little section that said regardless of what happens on the high speed rail project, the first $770M goes to LA and SF for urban transit projects with no strings attached. Ask 100 people about that and I guarantee that exactly 0 will have a clue about that. So LA and SF effectively skunked the rest of the state into gifting them an unrestricted $770M. Sweet…
Welcome to government by proposition. This month CA bond ratings went to just one step above junk bonds…
As I recall the collapse investigation determined that the it was caused by:
- poor design with some structural steel spec’d too small for the weight of the bridge
- poor management decisions during the on-going reconstruction project at the time of the collapse. Seems like nobody gave a second thought to piling something like 300 tons of construction materials on the bridge itself instead of staging them on the ground at either end of the bridge. The extra weight far exceeded the design specs of the bridge.
Ca. is wallowing in uber debt, but wait there’s more.
This is liberal math, if they can force us out of our cars with taxes regulation and high gas prices, that’ll justify the 5 billion a year loss for high speed rail.
Shouldn’t be a surprise, liberals+control+taxpayer funds loss=SOP and we’re the Stupid American taxPayer Syndrome sufferers who tolerate it.
I’d like to see road improvements made to the I-5 before even considering something like this.
Right now, it’s like driving a forgotten highway to nowhere.
That’s Mexifornia for you.
Just keep spending money that you don’t have and putting out your hand for more money from the federal government.
Time for disolving the Union or kicking out states like California.
Oh, and thanks for mentioning the MTA Michelle.
I’m always amazed at my fellow Angelenos willingness to keep throwing tax dollars into that deep hole of ineptness.
You’re arguing in favor of ignorance? When knowledge is power?
I mentioned on another thread that a Tijuana to Sacramento high-speed train would have riders…
How about when the gas reaches to $5.00/gallon in 2015? Also does this time include security wait and driving/parking at airport? I guess not…Will the train save this part of time?
Again $5/gallon case….And if traffic increases by 2015, any idea on how much time will it take to drive? I hope CA officials haae done all this analysis before jumping on board with this project.
Yea..ugly union will raise its head here as well.
Good routine maintenance would have discovered this.
However, that means we have to define good, routine, and maintenance. From the liberal dictionary –
good – adj. That which is best for all; i.e., The Greater Good.
routine – n. Repetitive task that is not boring because socialism produces a workers paradise where everyone loves the work they do.
maintenance – n. Unnecessary inspection of socialist-built structures, because everyone knows socialism builds things perfectly!
So, according to the socialists, that bridge never collapsed! And, if it did, it was for the Greater Good.
ajmontana – No, it passed.
I voted NO though. Like it matters.
I vote no for every bond issue. Doesn’t matter how “good” the intentions. The state treasurer (Bill Lockyer) is giddy over the current rating. He’d better not get too happy. Not long ago, it was B, C, or D.
Does anyone really think the corrupt, left wing, democrapic politicians, paper pushing bureaucrats, lobbyists and corrupt criminal construction companies along with the criminal unions care how many people will ever ride this outlandish taxpayer fraud of an idea?
The goal for almost all politicians is to buy as many votes as they can get with OUR money for projects both large or gigantic whether we want what the project or not–and no matter what we may have voted for the project as we are problems (smelly tourists, for example, profaning the US Capitol) and should be ignored.
(Yes, I’m as bitter as I sound, and am clinging like mad to my guns and Bible.)
One difference between this train and the Palin supported bridge in Alaska: Oakland and LA are not nowhere. People live there.
if there is all this money to be made with this high-speed train, then why should the government bother at all?
surely some enterprising private company will see the HUGE profit potential and build it!! and they wouldn’t need subsidies from the taxpayer!!
thats how it should work.
if she supported it, then why did she stop it..
people really live there?? wow what a penetrating observation!! let me guess, you must be a liberal!!
You have it exactly right. If the casino owners in Vegas haven’t done this yet, then you can be sure it is a money pit. It seems obvious that another mode of transportation to Vegas (along with gambling during the ride) should be a money maker. They ain’t doing it, therefore it’s a big loser. I’m sure they know a few more things than the general population.
I have a bet with friends that this will never get built. I’m confident enough that I should collect now. I literally laughed at them for their idiotic vote.
I believe “people” live in Alaska, too. Oh wait, “people” who vote Republican, or are Christian, or are Conservative; don’t count. My bad.
This train would be a train to nowhere as it would end in the High Desert after 40 years of building. Anyone remember the “Big Dig” in Boston?
I would love to see high speed trains from Oceanside to Las Vegas. Sorry I don’t really care if any of you benefit. Just kidding.
As for the “hour and a half flight,” I say hogwash. It takes 2 hours to get to the plane. Once on the plane you get sit on the tarmac for another half hour, and then if you are lucky you take off and then maybe you get to your destination in the hour and half. Oh then you get to wait 30 minutes for luggage.
Bring on the trains.
You are so right.
Here in Irvine the liberals who control the city government decided to create a shuttle bus service between the rail station and what passes for a “core business district”. Despite no studies showing that it was needed, the fact that several of the largest employers in that districts were mortgage lenders that had already declared bankruptcy and/or closed down, and independent surveys saying drivers would not switch to rail for commuting, the city signed a 7 year multimillion dollar contract to provide the service.
We are now 6 months into this debacle and virtually nobody is riding it- even when gas prices out here were at $5/gal. and the ride was FREE. At current ridership levels the city residents are subsidizing incoming commuters to the tune of $39/ride each way or $78/day per rider. A round trip cab ride with tip is $25. The city government’s solution? Extending the free rides indefinitely with the hopes that they can attract the hundreds or thousands of riders they claimed out of thin air would be using the shuttle.
you think the waits for security and luggage will be any different with the train???
That’s your defense of this boondoggle? People live where this train is going? People live in SF and Honolulu, too. Why not build an undersea tube between them? Hey, people live in Jerusalem and Tehran! Why not put the train between those two cities? You dolt!
Roads and bridges are usually built with commerce in mind. That used to be the reason for trains, too. Now, the reason for trains is commuters. This train will have one purpose only; move people from SF to LA. I’m sure they’ll throw in a few mailbags so the evening news has something to “report.”
Even the airlines have cargo and frieght carriers. But if you want to discuss the commerce of passenger air, the reason is simple. They do it because there is profit in it.
There will be NO profit in this fiasco-in-waiting. It will be heavily subsidized by taxes.
The entire purpose of this is to allow the socialists to say, “See, you don’t need your car. Public transportation goes everywhere!”
rightisright, please quit mincing your words and just tell us how you really feel.
I didn’t vote for this mess, either, so I can demurely sit back and criticize it. One thing for sure. Nobody is going to just show up and walk on this train. At speeds of “500″ mph, it would make too great a terrorist target, so we will have more of the same screeners at the stations that we have at the airports. Plus, you can’t leave out the small towns: It will have to stop at them all, just like Greyhound.
Many a kingdom has fallen when the royalty of that time emptied the treasury to build epic monuments to their ego’s. How dare all of you begrudge our liberal kings and queens monuments to their everlasting glory.
It will put people to work. I think its a good thing.
Actually, I believe Pittsburgh won the competition for the Governments money. It’s too bad that politics had to take over because I really would have liked to not have to drive to the airport from the East Side of Pittsburgh.
Ha-ha-ha-ha.
Oh, BTW, the Bridge to Nowhere was actually to make it easier to get to the Airport…
They are planning on running it with wind and solar power aren’t they?
If Congress funds this, California conservatives (all three of them) should take a page from the liberals’ playbook and file suit at every stage. I’m sure this thing will cause all manner of environmental disruption, will include countless contracts granted to insiders, will require breath-taking eminent domain abuse, and on and on. There’s no reason this thing can’t be delayed indefinitely by strategic litigation.
Let’s remember we are talking about OAKLAND! If anything gets built, it will take twice as long and cost three to four times the original estimates because the money will be embezzled and siphoned off. OAKLAND is just as corrupt as New Orleans, but not as charming. haha
Can’t they run it from Emeryville to Hollywood so the Pixar guys can visit their buddies?
As an L.A. area resident, I find it funny on one level, and infuriating on another, that L.A.’s hyper-costly subway system is featured so often in commercials and movies. The reason is that it’s one of the few subway systems in the world that can be counted on to be nearly empty any time of the day or night. Very convenient for film crews. As an occasional user of the system, I can’t recall ever seeing more then five or six people in a subway car.
Obviously, experience has not dimmed the enthusiasm of our elected superiors for the benefits of caviar-priced public transportaion systems.
Easy there chumpzilla. Lancaster and Palmdale are both towns of 100K plus people.
There are MANY in the LA area that are far less!!
It would be nice that maybe they get some use out of something should it get done.
Mind you I’m not for it in any way! I have ZERO need for public transportation of any kind, or them to take more tax money from me either.
Terrorists will take over the train. A janitor on the train, Steven Seagal will thwart their dastardly plans. A little girl will get lost on the train…a pedophile will stalk her until stopped by Bruce Willis. A old guy will lose his wallet…and on and on it will go in weekly serials, both dramatic and comedic.
A little ditty you can take to the bank is: Don’t let the state pull a train on your tax dollars. ‘Nuff said?
One of the big problems with high-speed rail in the US is the reluctance to build dedicated passenger rail (so as not to have to share with slow freight on routes with road crossings) and a fetish for exotic and unproven technology.
The French and Japanese are experts at this so just use their technology (the TGV runs around 200 MPH and can handle relatively steep grades). They’ve made test runs at 350 MPH.
The thing that amazes me is the cost to build the lines. $30 billion (at least)?! How did the UP and the AT&SF manage to build transcontinental routes? I think some of the old classic trains (like the Super Chief: Chicago to LA ran at speeds in the 100 MPH range).
I think high-speed rail can be successful – but not when the government is running it as a slush fund and make-work program. One of the big problems with Amtrak is funding: just enough to keep it alive but not enough to make it much more than an amusement ride for most of the country.
Personally, I don’t have a big problem with subsidized transportation (after all, roads, airports, bike paths are all subsidized). It’s the fact that we get so little bang for the buck that’s so frustrating.
The “high speed rail” is a joke and from the beginning there were warnings that the people pushing for it were lying through their teeth about the real difficulties and costs.
First – it cannot run straight from LA to SF, or even something close to that.
1) The coast is largely inhabited and there is no available right-of-way for a twin-tracked rail line. This cannot be the route
2) just inland there is the “Coastal Mountain Range” its not so much a mountain range as a band of rolling hills that would make any train route meander to follow valleys. The whole idea of high-speed is to have long straights. This cannot be the route.
3) so the only real available route is to cut North-east from LA towards Fresno until you clear the mountains just north of LA and then follow the 5 toward Sacramento, later having to cut back to the west to get to San Jose. You might be able to get to the south end of San Jose, but from there to SF is heavily suburbanized, there is no way to get a train right of way the rest of the way. Cutting west and trying for Oakland would run into the same problem.
So the 2 hour ride is already looking closer to 3-4 and doesn’t even get you downtown. YOu’ll get dropped off as some distant terminal and then either have to use local mass transit at a slower speed, or rent a car.
And that’s only if they can manage to get all the environmental issues dealt with, and there will be lawsuits over that.
Plus fights over where to have stations. The 2 hour time is based on no stops, but every community on the route is going to demand that they have a stop, and stops require slowing down and then waiting to unload/load.
bluntly this whole idea is a spending boondoggle of tremendous proportions.
Worse, the people who voted for it almost to a man would never be caught dead on the thing. They voted for it based on two things
1) the thought of all the construction jobs created. (it won’t create a single job for 5-10 years at best, but hey it sounded nice.)
2) everyone else will use it so those that voted it won’t have 2 hour waits for security at the airport. (yes, your average CA resident liberal is that narcissitic. They honestly beleive that while they wouldn’t be caught dead on a train, every other person on the planet will just love the thing to death, even if they don’t personally know a single person who would ever use it.)
I just hope it finally forces the state in to true bankruptcy and finally teached the liberals that their “free lunch” really costs more than if they worked for a lunch.
I ride the Red Line every day from North Hollywood to Pershing Square and the cars are regularly overcrowded. It’s so bad that I volunteer to work odd-hour shifts because the rush hours are terrible.
In seven years, the subway has been essentially free (my fare has been checked maybe 10 times), and the Orange Line is even more lax. We have the Tragedy of the Commons big time, made all the worse in LA thanks to the usual suspects. But that’s not going to change because less than 11% of the MTA’s budget comes from fares. 11%! It’s a welfare program, pure and simple, funded mainly by the sales tax.
It’s not in the MTA’s interest to provide a service that decent, responsible people would want to use and pay for, no. Not when there is the entitlement generation to cater to, and more and more infantilized socialist sons of Che streaming in. All the grants and taxes just make it an arm of big government, another reason to steal our money and give us crumbs in return.
So on occasion when I see our very own communist front group known euphemistically as the “Bus Riders Union” protesting the “RAAACIST FARE INCREASES!”, I have to laugh. Racist against whom? Surely they mean those who pay the sales tax and subsidize their free lunch?
It’s already being hailed in NYC schools as the Gore Right thing to do. Like “right of way free” power windmills lining the interstates, the lib/Dem sickly green mindset is snowballing over here. “Saving the Earth” is a “blank check” cause for the good of all of us no matter the cost.
Where do you write or go to help stop this boondoogle? This is only the first. The Greens will have these redundant rail systems crisscrossing every state in the name of saving the earth and stopping global warming. Aren’t there any science or land use lobbys we can turn to?
James Greenidge
Queens New York
Presume the high end of the estimate, $33.6 billion, even though that is always low by unwritten law. Presume the ticket price holds at $100, trying to make ends meet.
That means it cannot even consider earning out its construction costs before the 336 millionth passenger. At 336 passengers a trip that’s a million trips. Presume they put 10 trains on the track and run them on 20 minute intervals, three trains an hour from each end, 24 hours in the day. That means we make 144 trips per day. We run the trains 24/7 and have zero maintenance expenditures or trainman pay. That means we break even after only
(sit down) a bit over 19 years.
Check the math. The 336 passengers per trip divides nicely into 33.6 billion giving the 1 million trips.
Each year we get 6 * 24 trips per day times 365.25 days per year.That comes to 52594.56 trips per year. 19 of those years times 52594.56 trips per year equals 0.99929664 million. Check.
Now what happens if we add operating expenses, which are probably greater than the price of the ticket? It never pays itself back in any of our life times.
But it will boost our economy. “But why?” California is going bust, pretty soon nobody but diehards and the elderly with deep roots (like my beloved partner) will likely be here. And we’ll all be retired. We won’t need the fast train.
Therefore I predict it will come to pass. Democrats love such asininity.
{^_^}
southsideironworks
Chicago already has a way to get to St.L.-It’s called MegaBus.
Including a break at a truckstop it takes about four and a half hours.
If one buys their ticket early enough they can get ’round-trip for as low as $10.50.
As the wife of a Chicago railroader I think our commuter/freight system is great-but the last thing we need is another inter-state passenger line.
who really commutes from Oakland to la la land????
The Soviets thought the same way under communism, and eventually realized all they did was encourage sloth, mediocrity, and technological obsolescence in their society…and then tried the FREE MARKET (more or less) and suddenly found their ability to re-arm with better military technology and acquire the wealth to fund it improved tremendously which is what the Russians are ALWAYS concerned about-military power-the Russians are never secure enough!
Your post is otherwise a real head- shaker eaglehaslanded.
Maybe the train is a payoff to the Hollywood Elite, perhaps?
Plus time to drive to the airport and park, time in security and the gate and you can add another 2-3hours to the time.
This is so un-F’ing-believable and infuriating that I’m wondering if now only an act of violence will stop it.
Not proposing or endorsing such thing, mind you; just wondering if things have gotten so intensely psychotic and irresponsible that such an event is the only salvation?
These congenitally idiotic financial criminals need to go to jail!!!
If this thing ever gets built (after 1.5 trillion dollars, not “20 billion”), then THEY need to be the first ones motoring along at 190 MPH as the San Andreas Fault sends them a little tremble.
Beyond F’ing belief.
They are still not even close to completing the Bay Bridge, almost 20 years after the earthquake! If this is done before I die, I won’t believe it(, I’m 43).
And it will cost over 100 billion, guaranteed!
Don’t let the government pull a train on your tax dollars.
snark