Anti-Prop. 8 mob rings in 2009 with more church vandalism
The tolerance bullies are at it again — engaging in renewed property damage in the name of peace, love, and understanding. Oh, and shooting themselves in the foot to boot. The anti-Prop. 8 mob opened up their new year by spray-painting a Catholic church in San Francisco’s Castro district to protest support for traditional marriage. Only one small oversight: The church they targeted is actually “gay-friendly” and opposed the ballot measure, too. D’oh.
Via KGO:
Vandals spray-painted swastikas on a Catholic church in San Francisco’s Castro District Saturday night.
It appears the vandals are upset about the Catholic church’s support of Proposition 8, which made same-sex marriage illegal in California.
But, the Most Holy Redeemer Catholic Church on Diamond Street is gay-friendly. Many parishioners voted against Prop 8 and they are upset their church was targeted.
Black spray-painted swastikas marred the front of Most Holy Redeemer Catholic Church in San Francisco’s Castro district. Though the church itself is gay friendly, the proposed ban on gay marriage had support from prominent Catholics up to and including Pope Benedict.
Pastor Steve Meriweather told KCBS his parishioners actually share the vandals’ sentiment against Prop 8. “I think it’s unfortunate that they selected our community to attack,” said Meriweather, “because it’s the wrong one.”
Does this mean the pastor endorses attacks on churches and individual donors who don’t share the sentiments of the No on 8 blacklisters and rainbow-fisters?
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Categories: Proposition 8
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Mob rule will certainly lead to chaos. It always does, no exceptions.
That’s how I read it.
“Anti prop 8 mob” is that like a gaggle or something?
Well, it doesn’t really matter to them because they believe that Christians are unilaterally evil.
I kept waiting for the left to start eating one another; so happy to know my waiting was not in vain.
While that thought is disturbing on its own, what is equally nauseating is that the freaking pastor is okay with Prop 8, clearly in direct opposition with the Catholic Church’s official teaching on this issue.
As a practicing Catholic, I am growing increasingly outraged and disheartened at the complete disregard for the faith that many of our priests and bishops proudly display. I know in my heart that the church is about more than the people running it, but I do think that this kind of display is one reason vocations are at an all time low in the US. Perhaps young men are seeing the American hierarchy for what it is in many ways- wishy washy, not able to stand up for what the Church’s teachings are out of fear of losing parishioners and donations. What gives me some hope, however, is that many of the dissident priests and bishops are getting older and dying off, while the newer priests (for the most part) tend to be less liberal and actually upholds the church’s teachings. Imagine that!
Now that I think of it, it sounds a lot like how many feel about the GOP right now. We didn’t have a true conservative Republican to get behind in McCain, and I think many saw that. Wishy washy, etc Until they get their heads out of their butts, the GOP is not getting any more of my money. Like the newer priests in the Catholic Church, I see some hope in the likes of Sarah Palin and Bobby Jindal.
How can this be? You’re are Catholic or your not. This looks like a Catholic church Pelosi, with her pro-abortion stance would like.
Could someone tell me if individual churches can have views that are opposed by the Pope?
I’m confused.
This is the bigger story. It’s one thing for our politicians to ignore the constitution, but for a religious person to abandon the core teaching of their church is beyond my understanding.
I’m willing to bet that, at least in this case, it’s four or five pathetically ignorant, beer-addled heterophobes with more free time than brains.
As a general rule, spitting on your allies is ill-advised. Losers.
Seems that way, doesn’t it.
As a Catholic, I agree with you. But – first – the BISHOP is responsible for keeping churches in line before this issue goes to the Vatican.
Holy Redeemer is in the Archdiocese of LA, and their bishop – Roger Mahoney – is one of the more liberal Bishops out there. So he’s in the wrong, and the USSCB should rebuke him or the Vatican should. The good news is, bishops and laity like Mahoney are swiftly becoming the minority, aging, retiring, or dying. Orthodox, young priests, bishops and laity will right the churches and archdiocese that are engaging in behavior contradictory to Catholic teaching.
The teaching of the Catholic Church is clear: same sex attraction (SSA), a sexual orientation, is no more sinful than being heterosexual. However, ALL persons (straight or gay) are required to abstain from sexual activity unless it is part of a loving, life-giving sacramental marriage. It’s a wholly equal and fairly applied teaching.
One of the non-negotiables of voting is the protection of the traditional family structure – which is contradicted with gay marriage.
And, ultimately, those who go against Church teaching will have to answer for their actions – and especially priests and bishops who willfully mislead people – to a power MUCH, MUCH higher than the Pope.
Thank you EQ, but I’m still confused. How can a marriage be life giving if your gay?
Two terms that shouldn’t be used for the sake of clarity:
” Traditional marriage ” – there’s just marriage. It needs no qualifying prefix.
and
” ‘Gay’ marriage ” – a PC euphemism for a bad, mocking knock-off of real marriage.
Is he trying to say “Ooops, wrong church. We are glad you did but we are on your side.”
Also the ultimate oxymoron.
Let’s see if I have this clear…So a group of gay-rights fascists spray paint the ultimate symbol of fascism on a gay-friendly church.
Amazing.
Actually, all marriage should be “gay”, CCSS – that is, before the word was hijacked in an attempt to excuse a lifestyle for which people feel ashamed. Just as “a rose by any other name”, so it is with “a skunk by any other name”.
Good morning EQ.
You should clarify that to say sex outside of marriage. In either case, sin is sin and there are no differing levels of sin. It sounded like you are saying the church approves homosexuality on some level.
I wonder who this gang voted for… not really.
If you marry a person of the opposite sex. Sacramental marriage in the Catholic Church means marriage between one man and one woman. Any person, gay or straight is free to enter into the sacrament of marriage, thus defined.
Tailoring the Gospel to fit their neighborhood. In other words, their’s is a counterfeit gospel, and a heresy (if some sort of religion is actually being “played” behind those doors).
Been that way since the dawn of man. There is a manual for church operations, but it escapes many souls to actually open it and read it. The real Christ brings condemnation for sin, but offers salvation from it…which is NOT what these people are after.
The Castro district in San Francisco is Fruit Loop Central, boys town heaven.
In weather terms, it’s the “eye of the storm”.
You hope. Given the condition of liberal places of higher learning, I think I’ll take a “wait and see” approach before suggesting that our current crop of youth will “right” anything. Us seasoned folks need to keep today’s youth (somehow) from being brain-washed…regardless of semenary or university.
Amen – preach it brother. To teach any kind of sin is acceptable is heresy. People have no problem teaching their kids a lie is wrong…or murder…or theft but touch their sexual preference, specifically homosexuality and sex outside of marriage, watch out.
Christians can take comfort in the fact that sinners hated Jesus first, and that is sinners persecute us, it’s because the Holy Spirit is talking to them and they don’t want to hear it.
Oh, those IDIOTS. The absolute stupidity and just plain meanness of vandalizing someone’s church aside, Most Holy Redeemer doesn’t exactly have a reputation as a bastion of anti-gay sentiment. Harvey Milk used to put ads for his camera store in their church bulletin.
I have no problem with that. We must be bold in our wittness. Christ was the first to offend, and we therefore are commanded to preach truth…and if it offends, so be it. Better that some get their panties in a wad than to placate and allow them to waltz into hell with a wink and a nod.
The left-wing trolls at GayPatriot maintain that there has been absolutely no vandalism on the part of anti-Prop 8 protesters, and also that the vandalism that has occurred is completely justified.
They also maintain that no one has been physically assaulted by anti-Prop 8 protesters and those that did had it coming to them.
Covering all the bases. Don’t want to offend their own brethren.
Christians need to do more to dispell the myth that they “hate” people.
Christians, true Christians, do not hate anyone. But they get labeled that way continually by the homosexual movement and others.
It’s the same as saying parents hate their children because they tell them not to play with fire or not to play in traffic. It’s not hate. It’s love.
You don’t sit by and watch those you love destroy themselves. You stand up and say it’s wrong. Homosexuality is wrong according to God’s word, not mine. But don’t ask me to go against God’s word so you can feel better about your sin.
Amen – preach it brother. We love you and don’t want to see you drop into hell for believing a lie perpetrated by the master liar of all time (for the expressed purpose of dropping folks into hell by contaminating the Gospel). Satan is “religeous” too.
I’m not a religious man, but my moral and political standards are based on Natural Law. Natural Laws observations demand an order from a creator. Homosexual behavior is outside that order. It’s a simple concept for me to see, why can’t all churches understand this basic principle? As I understand from early Greek and Latin, sin is a separation from GOD. Homosexuality is not of Natural Law and therefor is a separation from God.
It is a sin.
We see that in all too much of the Christian Church-ever since the First Century really but it is getting worse. These people who are “upset but voted against” either do not know their Law and Gospel or do not believe. Either way the Pastors and shepherds are not doing their God Given job here.
We are NOT to Commune and gather together with those who do not follow the Word and openly deny Christ’s teachings but we do pray they repent and come back.
Either way Most Holy Redeemer Catholic Church on Diamond Street in the Castro District is at the moment Apostate.
Craig said:
Just look at it as a kind of ‘Mark of Zorro’, substituting the Z for a swastika, then it makes sense.
Amen – preach it brother! I am NOT a religious man either. I will go so far as to say – I hate religion. Nothing matters but YHWH, knowing Him and spending time with Him. Your definition of sin is dead on. Sin separates us from YHWH. If He called it sin, chances are, it is still sin. Not rocket science here. People define “God” as what makes them feel good. It would be better for us (people) to do what pleases Him and not what pleases ourselves and say it is approved by “God” because He didn’t know how society would change or what would be deemed as acceptable by the masses.
Actually, it is considered an abomination before the eyes of God.
The Catholic Church to day is not the same church I grew up with. Most of the parishoners running my church are more socialist. However, holding people accountable for their actions (sins) has gone out the door. It is the old touch feely make ourselves feel good religion. I like to remind those who seem to forget that Jesus wasn’t very tolerant of the theives and moneychangers in the Temple when he said “Get out of my Father’s House!”
Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matt 7:15-23)
Spot on!
I’m not religious either, I’m an atheist. I consider homosexuality to be an abomination either way you look it. For believers it’s a sin and goes against the will of God. For those who believe as I do, that sexual reproduction is a result of evolution, homosexuality is an unhealthy deviation from the norm that prevents a person’s genes from being passed on. The mere fact that homosexuality happens is not reason to believe it should happen or should be condoned. By that kind of logic, anything that happens should be condoned, and I certainly would not agree with that.
“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
Matthew 18:5-7
This is the same old story that never happened; religion versus science. The libtards claim that if someone is gay, they were born that way. They have no proof of that, but they know that if you keep repeating a lie often enough it gets accepted, in this case, as science. This is similar to evolution and global warming. There’s no science to back it up. And when confronted with the actual science, their defense is “You must be a right-wing fundamentalist.” Yeah, that’s science!
net helpmsg 4006
This is the same mentality that thinks if you bow down to the terrorists, they won’t kill you. Terrorists and moonbats don’t care who they target…when are they going to get it?? I know, never.
Really? Why? Just curious.
Here’s a group of people who deliberately fail to identify the correct gender for sexual encounters, proclaim their failure publicly, then expect favored treatment in the law for their wrong headed decision. Why would they pick the correct target for their little temper tantrums?
I can’t speak for Soap, but what I think he means is that he has a relationship with Christ. Organized religion can be rather cultish and off-putting. When my husband moved from VA to PA for grad school he sought out a Baptist church. He had been baptized years prior; however, this new church insisted that he be baptized in their church and that his previous baptism “doesn’t count.”
Says who? These church leaders are misleading their parishioners, but that doesn’t completely absolve the parishioners from their responsibility to follow God. And if they had the right relationship to Him they would notice that they are being lead astray. Thusly, the relationship with Christ is far more important than the religion aspect.
I’m sure Soap will explain and if I am wrong, my bad, Soap.
Christians will never agree with non-Christians on the sinful nature of homosexual sexual activity. By focusing on the sin, we are ignoring a much greater issue.
Ultimately, this struggle is about eliminating God from our civil government. Participants in civil unions have all the rights and privileges married folks do in the eyes of the law. However, marriage is a “sacrament” created by God, and recognized by civil authorities. For those of orthodox Judeo-Christian faith, the “sacrament” was given to us by God for one man and one woman only. Much like when you order a #1 at McD’s, you understand it contains a Big Mac, not a tofu burger even if you don’t eat beef.
If they wanted equality without the theology, they should be calling for all legal relationships to be defined as domestic unions. If people of faith then chose to sanctify this relationship in the eyes of God, so be it.
I believe one reason these activists are demanding they receive a “sacrament” that the state is not spiritually empowered to give them is to destroy “marriage” and separate it from its theological basis permanently, in the eyes of the law.
If I read my history correctly, our Constitution was written with the knowledge of Natural Law. Natural Law is GODS law. Both are constraints to live under. Both are frameworks that protect us and give us guidance. Just a a composer of music follows mathematical laws to produce harmonious and a pleasant scores, so it is with or religious and social laws. Without structure we have anarchy and chaos.
We need church leaders and politicians that understands this.
We need to act as people with strong core values and elect representatives who are the same.
It begins with each of us
“Physician heal thyself”
Great post at #41 BTW.
I was born into a Catholic home. I watched how you can sin all week and put a dollar in the plate, say a few prayers and be “absolved”. Married in a Baptist church and watched a good man get stoned for having the audacity to allow the Holy Spirit guide him and not the “church”. He was cast out. I was in the Church of God until the Pastor cheated on his wife. I didn’t leave because of it, I left because she forgave him but the church stoned him. I was part of the Christian Missionary Alliance Church until I found out you had to have a master degree to be supported by them. HMMMM, seems to me you could be a fisherman. My mother-in-law was a Jehovah’s Witness. Do not even get me started with the problems we had with her and her religion.
In all my dealing with religions (and my hobby is studying them), I have found them all lacking and too burdensome. Even Yahshuah (Jesus) had a problem with the religious establishment. What I have NEVER found lacking is a personal relationship with the Creator, YHWH. He has NEVER steered me wrong. He is my Father and He loves me. With His love, what need do I have for religion?
P.S. Thanks for covering mt back 30. Luv ya!
WELL SAID
We are a violent, destructive society in the U.S. Religious cultural beliefs, societal morality, and respect for the law were once the lid on the boiling pot. As this control disappears, so the pot boils over. These ignorant fools can get away with just about anything they want. Perhaps Israel today is offering us a lesson to heed.
we’re living in laodicea..
You got it!
Thank you!
Perhaps my word choice was poor, but homosexual behavior is what we believe is a sin, as it is fornication (as is all sexual activity outside a heterosexual, life-giving marriage, gay or straight).
Because, naturally, gay couples can’t procreate as God intended, it isn’t marriage. And because Catholics (all Christians, really) are called to avoid sin personally and help others avoid sin and be a witness to salvation, we have an obligation to vote accordingly.
But we also have free will, and, sadly, many choose to use that free will to say to God, “MY will be done, not yours.” At the end of all things, however, we will have to answer for how we use free will.
Recently, comedian Penn Jillette – an avowed atheist – was touched by the actions of a fan who gave him a book of Psalms. Jillette asked a very rational question: “How much do you have to hate someone not to proselytize?” And he’s absolutely right. He said that if he wholeheartedly believed a truck was going to run you over, he’d warn you repeatedly and – if you didn’t heed his verbal warnings – he’d eventually tackle you to get you out of harm’s way. He said that anyone who believes there is an afterlife, and that certain behaviors put one at risk for eternal damnation, believers have the right and the responsibility to warn others…whether or not that advice is wanted or heeded. You can see Jillette’s video response here.
Of course, not everyone will understand Jillette’s absolutely correct reasoning, or his rational response. Obviously, given the response of the Prop. 8 crowd.
Yes I believe we’re at a crossroad. Your understanding may be different than mine, but there is a major spit between those who honor the creator and those who wallow in self absorption.
On January 5th, 2009 at 11:06 am, FamilyMan said:
Yes I believe we’re at a crossroad. Your understanding may be different than mine, but there is a major spit between those who honor the creator and those who wallow in self absorption.
Yep, that is one hellofva loogie!
Thank you EQ.
I understand now.
What are we supposed to do? You forget that “hate” – to the left – means saying, doing, or thinking anything that might hurt their feelings, or make them uncomfortable, or doesn’t fit with their worldview.
More lies have been spread about Christian belief and teaching – and especially Catholicism – in the latter half of the 20th century and the start of the 21st century by the left and the media than about anything else.
The only way that myth would be dispelled is if we shut our doors, burned our Bibles, and stopped worshiping God and started worshipping Mamon.
OPPS!!
spitsplitOn second thought spit may be a better word.
Thanks for explaining! I see what you meant now. You don’t hate religion…just organized religion. It is really nice to be able to understand where people are coming from and why they feel the way they do! I tend to agree with a lot of what you say. I haven’t had the negative experiences that you have with organized religion in general. In fact, my Lutheran church home is full of very loving, caring people who really come through when you need them. We have had people leave the church from time to time because of disagreements. But what church is completely perfect? I do believe you can have a close relationship with Christ without a church. I belong to the church, but seldom go to services. I still consider myself close to God.
My Preacher has said before that Christianity is not a “religion”, but a relationship with Jesus Christ.
“Religion” is a set of rituals one performs regularly. But, a relationship with Jesus is not a ritual. My wife and I attend Church every Sunday. We worship and pray regularly. But, that isn’t a ritual anymore than me kissing my wife and children every day is a ritual.
On New Years, I went to a local parish that holds the “old fashioned” Latin Mass – you know, that doesn’t attract anyone but gray-haired retirees (at least according to liberals). Guess what? More than 3/4 of the pews were full of young people and young families with lots of kids.
Here in Milwaukee, and in Madison, our two respective Bishops – who are much more conservative than their predecessors – have increased seminary numbers in the years since they were installed as Bishops.
My husband could also show you many parishes and religious orders full of young faithful. In fact, some of the religious orders have so many new vocations they can’t build housing fast enough for them.
Numbers and statistics are on my side. Liberal parishes may experience a boom, but eventually they fizzle. While some of our youth are certainly brainwashed by the culture, many of them spend years “in the desert”, wandering about trying to figure out what’s missing in their lives. They don’t find that missing “something” at a church that tells them anything and everything is a-okay, so long as they “feel good.”
Moreover, I was one of those youth. Before I graduated from college, I was “spiritual”, rather than religious, with a distaste for organized religion and, having received a hearty dose of anti-Catholic propaganda, not a fan of the Church. Ask my husband.
If I can be converted, there is hope for anyone. And because – with God – all things are possible, we have more than enough reason to hope.
There is nothing you can do. Anything having to do with “Christ” will get you hated. They hated Himm first.
Live as He directed – full speed ahead and “count it all as blessing”.
On January 5th, 2009 at 8:19 am, Craig said:
Black swastikas? They must not have beeen able to find pink spraypaint.
I like that tre
Perfect example.
Is there a difference? Are there unorganized religions?
Ha! Touche! What I meant was, being “religious”, or close to God, vs. belong to a religious organization, such as a church. I have always thought that, if you are a Christian and have a relationship with God, then you are “religious”. Anyway, we agree on the concept!
On January 5th, 2009 at 11:04 am, englishqueen01 said:
Thank you EQ, but I’m still confused. How can a marriage be life giving if your gay?
Perhaps my word choice was poor, but homosexual behavior is what we believe is a sin, as it is fornication (as is all sexual activity outside a heterosexual, life-giving marriage, gay or straight).
Because, naturally, gay couples can’t procreate as God intended, it isn’t marriage. And because Catholics (all Christians, really) are called to avoid sin personally and help others avoid sin and be a witness to salvation, we have an obligation to vote accordingly.
But we also have free will, and, sadly, many choose to use that free will to say to God, “MY will be done, not yours.” At the end of all things, however, we will have to answer for how we use free will.
Recently, comedian Penn Jillette – an avowed atheist – was touched by the actions of a fan who gave him a book of Psalms. Jillette asked a very rational question: “How much do you have to hate someone not to proselytize?” And he’s absolutely right. He said that if he wholeheartedly believed a truck was going to run you over, he’d warn you repeatedly and – if you didn’t heed his verbal warnings – he’d eventually tackle you to get you out of harm’s way. He said that anyone who believes there is an afterlife, and that certain behaviors put one at risk for eternal damnation, believers have the right and the responsibility to warn others…whether or not that advice is wanted or heeded. You can see Jillette’s video response here.
Of course, not everyone will understand Jillette’s absolutely correct reasoning, or his rational response. Obviously, given the response of the Prop. 8 crowd.
—————————————-
What a lovely story about Mr. Jillette. I knew he considered himself an atheist, but I wouldn’t have known how he would react to an attempt to proselytize him. His response was gracious and he recognized it as an act of love, and did not respond with hate.
I personally agree with you that the Church’s teachings on homosexuality and marriage and sexuality in general are spot-on, but we’ve discussed that before.
UMMMMM, I don’t feel the way I do because of negative experiences. All of the religions I talked about had very loving people in them – they all do. No. It is what man has done to the organizations that I tend to have a problem with. A quick study of the Lutheran church will show what I am talking about. The beginning of the Lutheran church is quite different from the Lutheran church of today. One of my examples had a rule that you had to have a master degree to be supported as a missionary. Okay, you believe in the Bible being the “Word of God”? Show me where it was required. That is pure “religion”, a set of standards made by man to control how things are done.
Want another example? Baptists are known for condemning dancing. HMMMM, Psalm 150 (and others) says we should Praise YHWH with dancing. Who is right?
Let me pick on the church I am attending now, the Seventh Day Adventists (I am NOT an Adventist). They loathe modern worship music. My belief is if the instruments that we have existed during the time Yahshuah (Jesus) walked the earth, using them to honor Him would have been acceptable.
Yahshuah hated the rules that burdened man and he said so. He came to abolish that law – not The Law (which YHWH established).
There is NO perfect church (as in religion). There is relationship. There is union and His body is the “church”.
So, these people attacked the RCC. Because it is widely known the RCC is against homosexuality and that is why it was attacked. They do not even care if this church voted with them. Blind hate is NOT reserved for “Christians” (like some people want others to believe) as we have just witnessed!
The first time I heard a rock and roll song about Jesus I wondered if it was sacrilege. Then I recalled the first verse of Psalm 100, “Make a joyful noise unto the Lord…” and decided it was not.
I was stirring in my hibernation, and figured i’d post some today.
OK, so i get it…us heathens are going to hell. Meh.
can i just throw in that defacing a church, regardless of its denomination, is wrong and tasteless?
I would compare the idiots who did this, and the church leader who didnt vehemently and publicly denounce those who did it, to being robbed by your neighbor who just happens to be the head of your local neighborhood watch.
Going back to sleep.
Are you sure?
I suppose this is the natural outcome when one allows their ability to use logic and reason to be overtaken by emotion.
On another note:
“Don’t you see, Bobby? Christian rock doesn’t make Christianity better, it makes rock and roll worse!” ~ Hank Hill
For the most part, so do I. Have you heard some of Marty Haugen’s stuff?
And remember, the key word in that passage is NOISE…
Soap, you have a point and I agree with a lot of it. However, although the churches have been changed by man over time and now have things that we don’t agree with, I still believe that belonging to a church home is a good thing. Churches do a lot of good in the world and in their communities. People rally around you when you are in need. It is a good social interaction with people who believe the same way you do (at least the basics). I have a lot of dear friends who I met through our church. My children were both steered in the right direction while attending teen activities, things that they have carried with them into adulthood. So, while I agree that the Lutheran Church is vastly different from the original, I still think we need our church and I will continue to support it. I just don’t think it is necessary to attend weekly services in order to be a Christian. A big tenant of Christianity is to forgive, and that includes forgiving our church for going astray occasionally. I agree that there are many churches out there that are way off base (Rev. Wright’s, for example).I just shopped around until I found one that I could most closely identify with. No one will ever agree with everything. I don’t believe in dumping a church because I disagree with one or two things they espouse. Anyway, you have your reasons and they are good ones, and I certainly am not trying to change your mind.
I think some of us will be surprised to see how many “christians” who will show up there. Likewise, I think some of us will be surprised to see how many “heathens” will show up in heaven. A way has been made, choose wisely.
That being said, be careful not to mock YHWH!
Let me put it another way. If you have a son who constantly mocks and insults you and even hates you, will you leave an inheritance for him or the son who did as you instructed and honored you?
Yeah, Soap, it does seem a contradiction. I was raised in a religious family and attended a Methodist church every Sunday for the first 19 years of my life, so I am very familiar with Christianity. In the long run, belief in a deity didn’t find fertile ground in my mind. One thing I am definitely not is antitheist. I do not believe in a deity myself, but I have no quarrel with those who do. I generally approve of religion because of the positive influence it has in people’s lives.
not mocking, soap. It just gets old, after a while, being told over and over that i’m not good enough to get into heaven because i dont go to church, or because my search for the truth didnt or hasnt arrived at the same destination as John and Jane Churchgoer down the street.
And yes, i’m all too familiar with the way prepared. But thats a tale for a different day.
Just too many questions none of us mortals could ever answer. Some days, i’m of the mind there isn’t an answer, afterall.
But i also dont want to get into a discussion about religion, and my non-acceptance of it. At the end of the day, i choose to simply disagree, and not be confrontational. But i will admit, hearing about it constantly drains my will to be here at times. But going over it here just starts arguments, and i’m not in the mood today for it, specifically. And i havent had enough coffee yet, to boot!
It is what it is, I suppose.
At the end of the day…these idiots defacing a church and causing good people trouble for no other reason than they themselves are lawless hooligans…well, that act speaks for itself, and i think they should be arrested, incarcerated, and made to pay restitution to the people they’ve caused problems for…i believe that, regardless, is fair.
Hi Ya Abstract Mind! I’ve been wondering where you were hiding.
All I can say about your post is, I still pray for you regularly. I can hope you come to have a relationship with Jesus Christ.
I’ll start praying for you, too, Backwoods Conservative.
I’ll take that in the spirit in which it was intended and say thank you.
hey tre…
doing what all good bears do…sleep off the winter
me and jesus used to be good friends. I got tired of being stabbed in the back, having him date my ex’s and all the other things good friends shouldnt do to one another, while i was still an obedient lap dog.
Those days are long over.
But…its time for me to go back to sleep.
I do thank you for your concern, however. Take care, be safe
Churches have their function. They do good works, I can NEVER argue that. Even non-christian organizations do good works. If a church does something that does not line up with the “Word of God”, it becomes “religious”. Give me relationship over religion any day.
I have not been attacked by homosexuals because of what I believe but have been loved by them. Religion has done more to destroy homosexuals than it has done to help them. This is not to say I condone their lifestyle CHOICE – I do not and neither should the church. I choose to love them and direct them in love. Do they believe what I believe? Not always. Do Christians believe what I believe? Not hardly. Shoot, you can’t get Christians to believe His name is not “God” (a pagan title) but YHWH (Yahweh) a name.
Just my take.
backwoods conservative & abstractmind,
Is it safe to say watching “religious” people turned you off from the life you once knew? I stopped calling myself a “Christian” long ago because I watched what “Christians” did to other people. I was almost to the point where you are but I remembered how much the Creator loved me. Now, I am a believer bacuse of what the Creator has done to and for me (I used to be the worst of sinners).
I will pray for you too (with every good intent)!
The ninth-century Buddhist master Lin Chi is supposed to have said, “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.” Like much of Zen teaching, this seems too cute by half, but it makes a valuable point: to turn the Buddha into a religious fetish is to miss the essence of what he taught.
In my case the doubts were sown by a couple of books that postulated that the “gods” may have been visitors from outer space. The author’s theory was later refuted, but the damage was done. I never found sufficient reason to return to believing in a deity, and more reasons not to.
I have not been turned against religion by the actions of some its members. I don’t like it when someone tries too hard to shove their religion down my throat, but I have the same reaction to anyone who forgets the difference between suggesting I do something and demanding I do it.
Where religion is concerned, there are people who talk the talk and there are people who walk the walk. The people who walk the walk are among the most honest and trustworthy people I know. I do not think religion is necessary for a person to be honest and trustworthy, but a person would have to be willfully blind to not see that it helps.
If anyone had spray painted a swastika on a gay residence or establishment, it would be called a “hate crime”.
Yet the rainbow-fisters are the ones accusing others of hate.
I hope this gives that church a clearer view of with whom they’ve sided.
Let me see if I have this right, the pastor is condoning the actions of these terrorists, just not on his churches property? Or on black churches property, that would be racist. That about it?
A two-fer from CantCureStupid :
Placing San Francisco in Los Angeles is bad enough, but misspelling the Cardinal’s name makes this one extra special.
What an interesting thread. It turned quickly from the trivial, (some clowns defacing a church) to some clearly heartfelt thoughts on religion, and more specifically Christianity. I appreciate some of the posters taking the time to talk about their experiences and conclusions in a direct, calm and open manner.
I do have to say that I was a little taken aback by some of the comments on organized Christianity. Having been a Southern Baptist all my life (51 yrs now) I found it very hard to recognize any of the churches I’ve attended in some of those comments. With my father in the Army and me pursuing a Marine career I’ve moved a lot and belonged to a number of churches. No one has been stoned, no one driven from the church and none have ever condemned dancing. (Interesting since the dancing thing is such a common stereotype of Baptists)
The reason for affiliating with a church is because a the church is a beacon and a tool for spreading the word of God. The focus of the church is not inward on the parishoners, but outward on the people. It’s true that the members assist one another in hard times and encourage one another when they need it. But, the mission of the church is not to preach to the already saved, it’s to reach those who are not. And, by pooling our resources we are able to support missions in the US and abroad, run food pantry’s, provide medical assistance, divorce care, Thanksgiving meals, Christmas presents etc. etc. We do this not just because God enjoins us to do good works or with the thought that it will earn our own way to heaven, but in order to reach others with the word of God. That’s the mission of the church.
There is certainly ritual in the church. But, it’s important to recognize it as an assist in peoples individual relationship with God, not as a gateway. As a Baptist we are all about baptism (natch) and it is highly encouraged. But, in the end we recognize it for what it is, a symbol of something that has already taken place in an individuals heart. Nothing more. The water does not actually do anything to you and if you have not accepted Christ in your heart a thousand baptisms won’t help. It is about you and your relationship with God. The church is a facilitator, educator and encourager. And that’s a lot.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. I found them worth reading and reflecting on.
The jihdosexuals are at it again and like their counterparts from the Middle East, their rage blinds them. Oh, but they are really all for peace, understanding and inclusion. Yah, right.
“jihadosexuals”.
This is a disgusting, shameful attack and I hope there were camera in the area that will aid in catching the bastards that did it.