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Comments

1. #583504
   On January 5th, 2009 at 3:00 pm, 30 pcs of silver said:

   On January 5th, 2009 at 2:05 pm, SoonerMarine said:

   Well said.

2. #583535
   On January 5th, 2009 at 3:35 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

   On January 5th, 2009 at 2:05 pm, SoonerMarine said:

   Great post.

   (Interesting since the dancing thing is such a common stereotype of Baptists)

   The Baptist church next to where I grew up was adamant about dancing being sinful. They came through the neighborhood every week and tried to get us to come to their functions. It may seem a stereotype to you but it is reality for some of us. For me, I could not serve in the Baptist churches I attended UNTIL I became a member. Needless to say, I never did get to serve in their churches.

   I do have to say that I was a little taken aback by some of the comments on organized Christianity.

   I think you may have been taken aback with “organized religion” and attached it to Christianity which I would argue are two completely different things.

   Again, churches have their function and I still go to a church – no problem. Suffice to say that every church I have attended tried to get me to join up and submit to some ritual. The church I attend now wants me to become a member – to what end? Is just going to church enough? I seem to recall that Baptists still have a transfer of letter. Same with the church I attend now. Why? Why is it needed? Does it have more to do with “religion” or relationship with the Creator?

   One “Church” we have failed to mention is the Church of Satan. Yes, it is a real church. Does calling it a Church mean anything? Is it religious? Does it do good works? Does it do all of the things you described in their church? Yes, they can do all of the things described in your church activities in your post. The one thing they cannot do is have a personal relationship with the Creator.

   There are thousands of religions and 1 Creator. Seems kinda sad to me and confusing.

3. #583650
   On January 5th, 2009 at 5:06 pm, marybel said:

   Holy Redeemer is in the Archdiocese of LA, and their bishop – Roger Mahoney – is one of the more liberal Bishops out there.

   Although there most certainly is a parish named Holy Redeemer within the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, under the direction of Cardinal Mahony, the above referenced HR is is NOT the same church. While I don’t hold the very liberal Mahony in great esteem, Roger is not at all responsible for what goes on in the diocese of San Francisco. Nancy Pelosi’s very own Bishop, who already brought her in after her ill-advised comments on Meet the Press for a loving but stern “informational” session, is the go-to guy in charge in San Francisco.

   Roger Cardinal Mahony is in quite enough disharmony with the Roman Catholic magisterium without being erroneously called out for this.

4. #583662
   On January 5th, 2009 at 5:15 pm, marybel said:

   George Hugh Niederauer is the Archbishop of San Francisco. I apologize for quite unintentionally demoting SF to a bishopric. Niederauer is the aformentioned go-to guy.

5. #583713
   On January 5th, 2009 at 5:50 pm, SoonerMarine said:

   Soap,

   I’m not surprised that the people from the Baptist church where you grew up were constantly coming around trying to get you to come to their functions. That’s what we do, get people to come over so we can expose them to the word of God. My church has sponsored car shows, put on plays, held an alternative Halloween at the local fairgrounds with free rides, candy and entertainment. All in an effort to reach a wider and diverse set of people.

   As far as no dancing at your local Baptist church, I’m sure it’s true. But, I’m also pretty sure it’s rare. Baptists are a fairly large and diverse group. I can’t tell you how often I’ve had to respond to accusations about the Westboro Baptist Church. I cannot defend those people. I think they are nuts. And yet we both share the moniker of Baptist. I can only say that they do not represent what I know as the Baptist religion. I’m sure there are a large number of Catholics that are not too pleased with the stance of the Holy Redeemer Catholic Church. They too are an aberration, not the rule.

   I’m also not surprised that you could not serve in the church without becoming a member. To me this seems common sense. If you accept a position in the church you are a de facto representative of that church. And, the church wants to ensure that you represent what they believe. Unfortunately, there are any number of people out there representing themselves as Christians and yet are in direct conflict with the word of God. It seems to me that any credible Church would want to guard agaist that.

   I used organized Christianity purposfully rather than organized religion. You are absolutely right that they are two completely different things. Islam is an organized religion (plus a lot more) and I would not be taken aback by almost anything said about it. I find its tenents repugnant and indefensible. It’s unfortunate that so many have been led astray. Consequently, I used organized Christianity since I have no belief in, or direct involvement in any other religion.

   Any group can call itself a church, as you point out with the Church of Satan. But, it’s up to the individual to determine if the church they are affiliating with is following Gods word, the Bible. It’s your soul and your choice. When judgement comes and you provide the excuse “But my pastor at the Church of Satan said X.”, don’t even try. You are responsible for your actions, no one else. And yes there are many out there willing to lead you astray. Most them a lot more subtle than the Church of Satan.

   You correctly emphasize the personal relationship with God. So should the church. My church does not get in the way of that relationship, it assists me to enhance and more fully understand that relationship. God has set boundaries for us just as we set boundaries for our children. They church is sometimes seen as enforcing those boundaries and getting in the way of what some see as their personal relationship with God. But the boundaries are there for our own good even when they conflict with our desires. Often we come to see this with the passage of time.

   Once again, thanks for your thoughts. It’s educating and clarifying to hear input from those outside your immediate circle.

6. #583778
   On January 5th, 2009 at 7:17 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

   On January 5th, 2009 at 5:50 pm, SoonerMarine said:

   Thank you. We are not differing in what we believe.

   I hope you do not think I am anti-Baptist. Quite the opposite. I have been in two Baptist churches; one of the frozen chosen variety and one of the more charismatic variety. They have not been too different from the other churches we have been a part of. We have made some dear friends at both churches. As a matter of fact, it was a Southern Baptist church in Lakeland, FL that turned me onto church in the first place. Dr. Phil Lykes was the Pastor. I went there twice and it made such an impact I still remember his name (even if I might not have the spelling right – I think I do).

   If you are a Marine, I thank you for your service as well.

   Go Sooners – beat Texas. I am guessing you are a Sooner and watching the game tonight!

7. #583779
   On January 5th, 2009 at 7:26 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

   …okay head up butt. Ohio is playing Texas. Sleep is our friend! LOL

8. #583784
   On January 5th, 2009 at 7:35 pm, happyscrapper said:

   On January 5th, 2009 at 2:05 pm, SoonerMarine said:

   Good post…thank you! You made points that I was trying to make, but you said it better! Churches are only as good as the parishioners inside. There are good churches and some not so good. The Pastor is important, and if you get a good one, they are gold. One very important thing about belonging to a church community…your children. Our two daughters would not be as close to God today if they hadn’t had the influence of a church upbringing. No amount of teaching by us parents would have done as well as the church and the gatherings of their peers. I thank God for our church and the success my children have made of their lives.

9. #583785
   On January 5th, 2009 at 7:36 pm, happyscrapper said:

   By the way, my athiest, liberal brother said he would never go to church because it is full of hypocrites. Ha!! Can you imagine that? A liberal calling church people hypocrites. ROFLMAO!

10. #583791
    On January 5th, 2009 at 7:49 pm, happyscrapper said:

    When growing up, I remember that both Baptists and Methodists would not allow card playing, movies, drinking alcohol, or dancing. They allowed a game called Rook because it didn’t use the regular card deck that the church considered closely related to tarot cards and witchcraft. I dated a Baptist boy for a while and we very wickedly went to some movies and even danced together. His conscience bothered him, but we were teenagers and it was exciting! There are still some Baptist and Methodist churches that forbid those things, but most don’t. My oldest daughter went to Valparaiso University, which is a Missouri Synod Lutheran Univ. They are the most “strict” and straight-laced of the Lutherans Synods, but she managed to have fun and even a “few” drinks! She went on to become a Youth Director at a Methodist church.

11. #583856
    On January 5th, 2009 at 10:26 pm, SoonerMarine said:

    Soap and Happy, my best to you both and thanks for the comments.

    You are sure right about Baptist’s and drinking. I have not been in a Baptist church yet that has anything good to say about it. You can still be a member in good standing and drink, but to hold an official position, teacher, deacon etc. you have to abstain.

    A lot of the kids in our church head to Liberty University for college. There are an awful lot of rules concerning fraternization, behavior and dress, but it’s a great environment. My son has a strong faith but decided to go a different direction for school. He’s attending James Madison, a good education but a true party school. What could I say? OU wasn’t exactly a convent even in the 70’s. Shoot, streaking was still popular.

    Absolutely on the game! Texas is underperforming so far but my Sooners will rule!

12. #583875
    On January 5th, 2009 at 10:54 pm, garydt said:

    Sure looks like the last days with the Muslims wanting Israel eradicated and now the gays calling Christians hate mongers. Remember that Isaiah said that in the last days people will call what is good evil and and likewise call evil good. As stated before True Christians will be hated and persecuted because Jesus said we would be hated because He was first hated.

13. #584936
    On January 7th, 2009 at 4:04 am, WarTip said:

    “Love us and accept the fact that we are peaceful or we will hurt you”

    Can you feeeeeeeeeel the love tolerance?