Friday night open thread
Talk amongst yourselves!
Posted in: Uncategorized
See what others have said
Note from Michelle: This section is for comments from michellemalkin.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with or endorse any particular comment just because I let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with my terms of use may lose his or her posting privilege.
Trackbacks
- Friday night open thread — But As For Me
- Friday night open thread
- Details coming out on Obama stimulus package » A Couple Things » A couple things about politics, sports, travel, and other stuff.
- UFC 94: Predictions « JoHNBRoDiGaNDoTCoM
Comments
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Categories: Uncategorized
Legal Insurrection
» Thanks, Global Warming
Stop The ACLU
» Oops! Now New Zealand NIWA Accused Of Faking DataRiehl World View
» Climate Change: BBC Didn't Hide The Story?Riehl World View
» BBC, KGB, Oh My: More On Climate Change FraudNewsBusters.org
» Climategate: White House Involvement in Scandal Will Make It Harder for MSM to IgnoreJustOneMinute
» The Prescient Joe Biden
Well besides the fact that I was born and raised on a dairy farm in Lowville New York, and then went to college in New York City, and did my senior honors thesis on applying E.E. Schattschneider’s theory of scope of conflict to explain New York state and local politics and why so many local issues in NYC end up getting decided in Albany.
But other than that, I don’t have a clue.
I also don’t have a clue about how anyone could look at that map linked to and state “this country is conservative” unless they think we vote by acre.
I grew up hearing and believing the same thing. The myth of the upstate tax funnel and how we get nothing from NYC in return except for prisoners. And then I went to NYC and listened to them complain about how a bunch of unwashed upstaters had dictated policy that only affected NYC. The issue that first got me started is rent control, a concept that exists only in NYC, yet for some reason was abolished by the NY State legislature, over the clear objections of the vast majority of NYCers.
And actually having lived in both places and studied the issues, more often than not, NYC has the better argument. Do you know how many state laws are on the books that apply only to cities with a population of one million or more? Who do you think that includes? Rochester? Buffalo? Syracuse? Do you know that so many of the Authorities that run various public works in NYC and NYC only are controlled by the state? Like Battery Park? Why should some upstate joe farmer cum legislator have any say whatsoever in Battery Park?
And do you know how much of the state’s revenue comes from NYC area (think about corporate taxes alone: the largest percentage of NYs corporate tax revenue comes from finance and insurance companies. Where are they located?) And do you know how much more it costs to provide services on a per person basis in a spread out, rural area than in a dense urban area?
You are kidding, right? How many senators does NY get? And how many again does Wyoming get? The fact of the matter is that for a number of reasons, rural representation in bodies politic are most often OVERREPRESENTED looking at it from a one man one vote basis. And were the cities getting the shaft when the more conservative rural and suburban vote won the previous 2 presidential elections?
But again, what do I know? I’ve just been living in my ivory tower and getting my opinions from the New York Times.
Shall I answer this as condescendingly as it was asked? There are thes big nasty beasties called “cows” who stand around and poop a lot. My paw would get up afore dawn and go out and put these sucky machines on the bottom of the cows where it looks like they have 4 pee-pees (even thought they’re girls). This is where the milk comes from. The sucky machines then take the milk through a series of tubes to a big shiny tank, where it sits until some strange guy comes at like 4 in the morning with an even BIGGER shiny tank on the back of a truck to take it away. I am a little hazy on what happens next, but my mom then can buy milk at the store.
Of course the small family farms in upstate like the one I grew up on have already been failing and/or taken over by corporate farm. Know why? Because small family farms are much less efficient and profitable. Capitalism rocks! Except when it doesn’t, hmmm?
Not to horn-in on two New Yorkers talking, but Chap, Emjem is right, all states unfairly favor their metro areas in divvying up tax revenues and these urban populations do outweigh the rest of the populace in state and national elections.
For example in KY, the “Golden Triangle” area of our state – consisting of Louisville, Frankfort and Lexington, home to national brands like Yum Foods and KY’s tobacco and horse industries – receives the lion’s share of state revenues, much of it derived from far away eastern KY’s coal severance taxes. This area of the state pretty much sets the agenda for our government, our taxes, and is first in line for infrastructure development and education “investments,” while the rest is state is left to work hard and make do.
It is an unfair system, prevalent in each state, and one which needs our attention.
Of course they do. There are more people there. What do you propose to do about that in a way that does not violate the Constitution?
Again, I studied this issue extensively and in the case of New York, it is the upstate areas that have traditionally controlled the legislatures and have exerted a lot more control over NYC issues than NYC has on upstate issues.
And as far as NY tax revenues, Upstate has nothing remotely equivalent to the natural resources that are apparently taxed so heavily in KY. We have marginal farm land, snow and a lot of dying industries like paper mills. The revenue driver in NY is NYC and its suburbs.
And the clock says it is time for NestingHawk to be accused of being a liberal again! Forgive me-I am an English major down to my heart and there are some things I can’t resist.
Chapoutier:
To be honest, I was just pointing at the pretty map and wasn’t worried about or necessarily endorsing the text. But it’s nice to know somebody followed the link. But now for my English major style fun…
It depends on how you take the meaning of the word “country.” If by country you mean the people populating it, then the country is about split, at least by voting block. Some years, Republicans win. Some years, Democrats win. This year, we know some conservatives were sitting home in disgust with McCain. Other years, we know some Democrats are sitting home for one reason or another. Completely disregarding the issue that Obama actually ran as a conservative, the fight, actual fight and not preordained conclusion, and the smaller issues that can affect the outcome each time, mean the country is about split.
However, country as dictated by land mass is not entirely invalid. You can go to one county and say, “This is an area that supports Obama” and another county and say, “This is an area that supports McCain.” If you throw a dart at the map, you are far more likely to wind up in an area that supports McCain than an area that supports Obama. So, on that basis, you could in one sense say, “The country is conservative.” After all, if you pick a random place to be, you will more likely be in a conservative area.
Assuming you feel McCain is conservative, Chapoutier.
Then, if we say, “City areas are liberal and country areas are…” But we knew that already.
Nesting,
That comment was directed more at Limbaugh and the guests he was talking to, not necessarily you.
I am pretty sure I would lose any small amount of credibility I have managed to eke out here if I were to say yes.
How do state-wide gun laws and taxes do in NYC versus upstate support? That’s a sincere question for anyone who knows.
Thanks, Chapoutier, for both the comment and the laugh. I understand your concern, but I find you highly credible either way.
NYC has their own separate gun laws, though I am unsure of their status since Heller. I am not aware of any attempt specifically rooted in upstate interests to change this, beyond the usual suits from national groups like the NRA.
You have no problem finding a gun upstate. I have never purchased one myself, so others would have to speak to any regulatory difficulties.
Tax rates for the state are on the higher side overall, but NYC imposes its own income and corporate tax on top (which is another reason it is a fallacy that all the upstate money ends up in the city), which are both very steep. But the NYS legislature, as far as I know has not messed with these, nor tried to.
http://youhavetobethistalltogoonthisride.blogspot.com/2009/01/sunday-morning-civic-lesson-americanism.html
I know this wasn’t directed to me, but I have a suggestion anyway. More restraint on the part of non-local governments. If it’s not necessary to make a law one locality wants for itself across the whole state, don’t do it. Let the locality or localities that want it make that law for themselves.
Same with federal and state governments. If it’s not necessary to make a law consistent across the whole country, don’t. Let the states that want it make it themselves.
Have you been listening to Fred?
This guy should be kicked off the team, but he won’t be. Assault on the basketball court is okay. I’m surprised the ref called a foul.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Please-note-that-Chase-Budinger-s-face-is-not-a-?urn=ncaab,136602
SIGN OF THE TIMES
My wife just found a coupon for a home paternity kit!!! I had no idea such a thing existed. The ad with the coupon shows a father with his young son. Since both are smiling, I guess the test came back with a positive match.
I didn’t realize the guests on Maury actually represented mainstream America. God help us!
So, in case any one still doubts that socialism is coming … check out this graphic from a supposedly “conservative” newspaper.
Thank you for your perspective on my question, Chapoutier. When I have more time on my hands than I do at present maybe I should do some research for myself, to get more details and such. (Which places voted which way for the state-wide tax rates, which specific gun laws are state-wide and which places supported them, etc.) Admittedly, I’ve never lived in NY, but VA may have some similar issues.
Actually, Backwoods Conservative, I hadn’t seen that video. It was interesting, though-I knew I liked that guy.
corona said: (#111)
It looks to me to come from the Washington Post–(the text said “Post”, and the style looks to be that of the WP)–not a conservative paper, just big. (If it is the Washington Post, its nickname during the Cold War was the “Washington Pravda” because of its politics.)
chapoutier said (#97):
I like that idea. Do you think we can get it to happen? Please?
I don’t know about in the states, but in the federal government it was because as written the Constitution created a nation of states, and the representation in the senate was to increase the influence of small, less populated states against the big, well populated states that would have more influence in the House of Representatives. But that’s probably what you were referring to.
(As an aside, I’ve been wondering if E.E. Schattschneider’s book was worth finding and reading. I was supposed to read it in college, but lost it before I could. Since you wrote a thesis on it, I guess you endorse his analysis. I’ll find the book.)
NestingHawk said: (#111)
Sorry for trimming your comment so much, but this is all I wanted to address.
With gun laws, state-wide laws are usually more sensible as it minimizes confusion when going from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Virginia once had local laws (grandfathered from when the General Assembly took over the gun laws). However, it was found to present problems, including unequal burdens upon law-abiding citizens buying guns, so local control has been pretty much ended as a practical matter. Some things are still by county or city (hunting restrictions and concealed carry permit issuance, for example), but the main laws are pretty consistent state-wide.
With state-wide laws, citizens know that if it’s legal where they live, it should be legal where they’re visiting or working.
Having Blown Up the Mortgage Industry, the Diversity Police Take Aim at Charities.
Easy: “spread the [revenues] wealth” by giving us simple country folk, a.k.a., the earners, our fair share of the state’s spending pie!
It’s the whole “unfair taxation…” thing; just because urbanites out number us rural folk, doesn’t mean they should get more of the tax dollars we all generate. In fact, because urban areas attract more diverse businesses, they should require less in state revenues.
And as the urban populations control and direct all facets of most state houses – from taxes to allocations – they should feel magnanimous enough to give back to the rural areas a little more of what they take from them, by providing EQUAL spending on roads, education, and municipal services.
My point is, the taxing of rural areas to give added support to the supposedly high income-generating urban ones is not unique to NY, KY, or any other state, and is often done at the expense of ignoring the needs and/or to the detriment of rural citizens.
That’s my example point with KY: eastern KY generates a large amount of tax money for the state, like NYC & its ‘burbs, but receives little of this money back in terms of state funding, services and infrastructure. And because we are under-represented in the state House, there’s nothing we can do about it.