McConnell/Graham mortgage entitlement would cost at least $200 billion; Reid: “We’re willing to look at it;” price tag between $300 million and $1 trillion
Scroll for updates…2:39pm Eastern. Reid states at press conference just now: “We’re willing to look at it.”
Nobody else is covering this, so I will continue to bang the drum. Yesterday, I e-mailed Sen. McConnell’s office asking how much his disastrous GOP mortgage entitlement proposal would cost. How much would this amendment add to the price tag of the $1 trillion “stimulus”/spendulus/porkulus/Generational Theft Act of 2009?
No answer yet from McConnell’s office. He’s too busy on the Senate floor decrying the unnecessary, harmful spending proposed by the Democrats.
Well, Sen. Lindsay Graham spilled the beans. He’s one of the drivers behind the government-backed mortgage entitlement — and he said yesterday it would cost an additional $200 billion.
U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham supports an economic stimulus bill but said Monday the current version spends in the wrong places.
“The underlying problem of the economy nationally and worldwide is housing,” the Republican said. “We have a lot of people in foreclosure and a lot more people heading toward foreclosure.”
Graham is working on legislation to give all homeowners the chance to refinance their mortgages at 4 percent interest.
That would cost the government nearly $200 billion, he said, but would stabilize the housing market when combined with a larger tax credit for first-time homebuyers.
Yeah, right. The same way all the other trillions we’ve tossed at the problem have “stabilized” the market, eh, Sen. Graham?
Chris Kinnan at FreedomWorks e-mails: “McConnell’s 4 percent mortgage entitlement could easily cost more than the entire stimulus…of course they’ll use budget gimmicks — ‘we’ll only need it for a year or two’ — to hide the costs but this is a dangerous idea. We’re already massively subsidized housing through the mortgage deduction, through the FHA (which was doubled in size just last year and now needs direct govt funding for the first time ever), and through Fannie and Freddie (which have imploded through Congressional mismanagement and have a looming unfunded taxpayer liability). Another government program is not a conservative answer to the problems we face in housing, and ripping scarce capital from the private sector and stuffing it into unproductive housing stock will make the broader credit crunch worse and make us all poorer in the long run.”
Yesterday, McConnell said the Republican Party’s goal “is not to kill” the stimulus.
If Senate Republicans sign on to this guaranteed government mortgage entitlement nightmare, they will permanently kill their already comatose credibility.
***
More on the monstrous potential costs of this proposal:
I am not, though, sure how Congress is going to determine a “credit-worthy borrower” if not by a bank’s willingness to lend to him. Fannie and Freddie are supposed to buy the new loans—I’m pretty certain that at this point we can all agree we don’t want to use the federal housing agencies to encourage banks to make unwise loans. Which gets back to the point from earlier today and the question of whether we should be making banks lend.
There’s also the question, raised by my colleague Steve Gandel in December, about how much cheap, government-backed mortgages will ultimately wind up costing taxpayers. Steve concluded that it might be a lot more than it would seem at first pass.
Gandel on the Treasury Department’s similar proposal last December:
The Treasury Department’s latest prescription for the ailing housing market could turn out to be more placebo than cure, and a costly placebo at that. Some economists question whether just lowering interest rates to a historically low 4.5% will be enough to boost housing sales or prices. What’s more, the plan could end up costing $25 billion a year, using up valuable funds needed to fix the housing market and providing no relief to the millions of homeowners now facing foreclosure.
“It’s an unmitigated mistake,” says Edward Glaeser, a Harvard University economics professor. “The amount of help this plan offers is vastly smaller than the problem. It’s just not worth the cost.” (Read Four Steps to Ending the Foreclosure Crisis.)
At the heart of the plan that the Treasury is reportedly considering is the idea that lower mortgage rates will boost home sales and eventually house values. The plan hasn’t been officially announced so it’s not certain exactly what the Treasury would do, but one way it could work would be for the government to offer to directly purchase all newly originated loans by banks and mortgage lenders provided the loans carry rates of 4.5% or less…
…But critics of the plan say that is will do little to boost sales, and could wind up being surprisingly expensive. Here’s their math: In order to get lenders to make the loans at below market rates, the government would have to basically pay banks the difference between the market rate and the 4.5% they would like banks to lend at — currently 1%. That would still leave a profit of 0.8% on every loan the government helped originate through the program.
The government, though, would only be able to pocket that profit if everyone paid back their mortgage in full, which even in good times is not the case. Historically, about 1% of all mortgages end up in foreclosure. That would mean during normal times this program would end up costing the government 0.2% of all the loans it originates. (Read It’s the Housing Market, Stupid.)
But these are not normal times. Right now the foreclosure rate is running at 3%, and it could ratchet higher in the next few years if the recession drags on. The government could mitigate its losses by only lending to people with high credit ratings. But even high quality borrowers will default at higher rates in a down economy. At a 3% default rate, the plan could cost the government as much as $25 billion a year. And that’s only if 10-year Treasury rates remain at 2.7%. A year ago, the government bonds yielded 4%. At those levels, the 4.5% mortgage plan would cost nearly $50 billion a year. Treasury officials declined to comment on these projections.
On another troubling note, some economist question whether the lower mortgage rates would even boost sales or home values. A 2006 study of mortgage rates and New York City housing prices going back to 1975 by Lucas Finco of Quadlet Consulting found no correlation between lower mortgage rates and higher housing prices, or vice versa. “The relationship between mortgage rates and home prices is pretty obscure,” says Jack Guttentag, a professor emeritus of finance at the Wharton School of Business.
***
Light up the phones: Tell Sen. McConnell to Rally Against the Obama Debt Plan!
And via CongressWhip:
These are 7 Senators that are “undecided” (except maybe Brownback )on the stimulus based on calls to their offices:
The 7 are Barrasso (WY) voted no in past but has not stated any opinion now, Bunnining (KY)Has not stated opinion assumes he will vote no, Cochran (MS) working on it no stated decision, Collins (ME), working on it… no decision, Crapo (ID), would imagine he will vote no., Ensign (NV) has been speaking out against but has not decided yes or no, Brownback (KS) no in current form working on it.
***
Update 2:39pm Eastern. Reid asked about GOP mortgage entitlement. States at press conference just now: “We’re willing to look at it.” Estimated cost, he says, is “between $300 million and $1 trillion.”
God. Save. Us. From. Bipartisanship.
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Trackbacks
- Republican: It’s the New Black « JoHNBRoDiGaNDoTCoM
- McConnell/Graham mortgage entitlement would cost at least $200 billion — But As For Me
- Michelle Malkin » Generational Theft Act fun facts from Sen. Coburn’s office
- Congress Critters at Work: Senate Stimulus Amendments…. « Moderate in the Middle
- Fiscal Suicide: Dr. Coburn’s Got the Cure « JoHNBRoDiGaNDoTCoM
- Mortgage entitlement in porkulus bill to cost at least $200 billion | Fire Andrea Mitchell!
- Michelle Malkin » No, no, no: Oppose the disastrous GOP mortgage entitlement
- Michelle Malkin » Message to Senate GOP: Stop propping up the housing market; Update: Taxpayer groups line up against McConnell mortgage entitlement
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Now is the only time to kill this bill. We must kill it or it will kill us.
Michelle, in reality there is no way to know how much it would cost. all figures are worthless. That’s because no one knows just how much interest a 4.5% mortgage would create. We could likely have trillions of dollars in refinances and purchases as a result. It’s impossible to know just how much it would cost.
That said, I am covering this as well.
This is a horrible idea and this comes from a mortgage broker that stands to profit handsomely from it if it passes. frankly, all my colleagues agree. while we would all make a lot of money, it ultimately is an awful idea on any macro scale.
Ive been an idiot I have been saving money to buy a home. I should been reekless bought a home I could not afford at a rate well above my abilty to pay and wait for the gov’t to bail me out.
Hammond,
keep in mind that it is very difficult to qualify for a loan now and these rates would only be available to those that do. In fact, if you have been saving, you will be the beneficiary of not only low rates but low real estate prices. This program was made for someone exactly like you to take advantage.
You know, a $10,000 or $20,000 first year tax credit on a purchase of a home would probably do a similar job in encouraging home sales and reviving the economy, without putting the government permanently in the home mortgage business, competing with private lenders and creating a permanent bureaucracy that would only expand with time.
Heck, a one time $5000 tax credit on US or US manufactured autos would help out the automakers
IMHO.
Forget stimulus spending and bigger government. Tax credits. Not rebates to people on welfare, reduced taxes to people like me who actually work, create goods and services, and then put money into the economy buying more goods and services.
Where’s Uma Thurman when you need her?
This will simply delay the corection in the market and prolong the suffering and expense. REALLY a STUPID idea.
Haven’t seen McConnell for awhile but he was on the news yesterday and had that “I died ten years ago, but am still in Congress” look about him. Scary. Graham Cracker has that “What else can I do to screw my own party – he-he I thought ’screw’” look about him.
I believe she was scared out of show business when the creepy Quentin Tarantino kept refering to her as “My Muse.”
Shame, and she was such a good bill killer.
Our elephant needs to see if Rosie O’Donnell has some extra inversion boots “hanging” around!
Every day I check MM lately the upside down pachyderm has reappeared!
This seems to happen a lot when a pork bill has made it to the Senate!
This brings new meaning to the term “smothered in lard”…
Sorry, it’s a visual really…
Actually, Graham was on Fox News this morning and said that the cost would be $350 billion.
the worst foreclosure states, arizona, california, nevada and florida are having the “price” of their homes drop like crazy, which is bad for 1st time 2003-2008 home buyers. but the fact that these houses went up like mad during that time reflects the laws of supply and demand, and now the houses are starting to sell again. why make the responsible home mortgage payees responsible to pay for other less than responsible mortgage defaulters. doesn’t this reward bad behavior while punishing good behavior? and we wonder why we’re in trouble.
What the blippity-boop is wrong with these people?
A girl I was having an argument with called me a great, bad name a few weeks ago.
It cannot be repeated in this forum, but it is all that is left to describe these guys.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thot I just saw a blurb a few hours ago saying that home sales have gone up 9% in Jan. If so, who needs the stinking bailout when the market is starting to recover on its own already. Like the CBO reported, this larded bill will be too much, too late.
The bailout/stimulus will eventually cause the dollar to fail as fantastically as the Zimbabwe dollar. Nothing like 231 million percent inflation to ruin your day. $100 trillion dollars isn’t enough to buy a loaf of bread.
That’s the change we’re working towards with these bills.
Let’s get all the stupid ideas out to the public so that all the voters can see that they voted for morons.
This poor sick country is like a car screaming down the road at 150 miles per hours with a broken steering mechanism and defective brakes.
Glad to see someone note what I’ve been saying all along –
the mortgage interest deduction must go!
In a rational world, I would agree. Trouble is – 90+% of the Obama voters have no clue. In their world, the Supreme court has Judge Judy, and who got kicked off Idol or Dancing With the Stars is more noteworthy than Iraq launching a rocket.
The electorate is ignorant, the MSM spoon feeds them, and they like their pablum. Telling them the moronic moves of Obama, his cabinet, and congress has no meaning to most. And connecting the dots between voting and consequences – are you kidding?
Why do we need this? You can pick up the phone and refi right now at less than 5%. No government intervention needed.
Why am I Republican again?
Can you folks down in Georgia do us all a favor when Grahamnesty is up for re-election? Vote him out in the primaries so he won’t even be around for the general election.
Grahamnesty is from SC, he was just re-elected, they booted their chance to replace him.
MarcoPolo,
This (and amnesty, spending, etc.) is why I am no longer a Republican.
Obama said he’d cut with a scalpel, not a hatchet when it comes to the budget and I presume the stimulus (spending) bill. I think he’s going to need a chain saw to get through all the fat.
McConnell/Graham would make the 4H club proud with the pigs they are raising for show.
It will not be long now and they will be printing money on toilet paper.
Back a few years ago, when it started looking like we couldn’t handle our mortgage payments, we sold our new, spacious home while the getting was good and moved to a much smaller, older rental (you know, to save money, get stability, etc.). I guess instead of being responsible, my family should have just waited for everyone else to bail us out. Stuff like this really ticks me off… not because I feel bad I’m missing out on my share of this bailout, but because so many people think they’re entitled to something like this!! WTF is wrong with people??
I called the 866 number and got right through and told the nice lady answering the phone how I felt as a life-long Rep about the stimulus plan and the mortgage entitlement program. I was very nice and so was she. She took my name and address and hopefully after the struggle Mitch had with Ky last time he won’t shrug off Kentucky Republican’s thoughts about these two disasters.
Don’t forget this little tidbit as The Obama Administration works on destroying us economicly, they also are reaching out to Iran They also announced they have been engaged in talks with Syria & Iran for months even before they took the oath of office, ad to that Iran just achieved this:
http://thecitytroll.blogspot.com/2009/02/no-one-is-safe-from-mad-persian.html
Rather generous with other people’s money.
RINO hunting is the only reason I can think of at the moment. Zimbabwe just cut 12 zeros off its currency inflated to the stratosphere; I guess McConnell/Graham are jealous.
PRINT, PRINT, PRINT!
The underlying problem with the economy is the government itself. The solution lies with the people, and that requires massive tax cuts and reductions in government spending. The mortgage crisis can only be solved by a moral people living up to their obligations, not by a government that panders to their stupidity.
Check out this latest Obama appointee
Obama Picks Porn Lawyer As Deputy Attorney General
Sorry Georgia…I saddled you with this guy by mistake. South Carolina…you’re stuck with him.
Marco Polo, Virginia Patriot:
I abandoned the GOP after the November 2006 catastrophe. That’s like getting out of the stock market after the DOW sunk to 14,000. I can’t think of a single reason why I would come back. I joined the GOP in 1980 to get away from liberal Democrats. Now I feel exactly the same way about Republicans that I felt about Democrats in 1980 and for mostly the same reasons.
What is the world is wrong with these IDIOT GOP Senators?
Are they really that out of touch?
Careful Phil, Bill Grant may be lurking, just waiting to set you straight about always supporting the GOP, even when they are back-stabbing liberals.
Virginia Patriot:
Nose holders are all talk. The only thing they are good for is casting an automatic vote for whoever is waving the GOP flag. No thinking involved, none necessary. They ought to just cast their lifetime vote once and have it apply to each election.
On February 3rd, 2009 at 4:18 pm, Virginia Patriot said:
No worries Virginia, chuck baldwin; the latest “only man who can save America” and his merry band of bed wetting, x-files watching 9/11 conspiracist crack-pots will put the country back on track. Maybe even get you a prom date or at least some Clearasil. I want to believe!
Great reporting Michelle!
I know two personal friends now that have been advised by their mortgage broker/holder to not make payments this month.
One is entering a short sale (and will have to make back payments eventually on closing) and the other is playing the “I’m broke and need a mortgage adjustment or you will have to foreclose on me” game.
This country is changing all right!
On February 3rd, 2009 at 4:37 pm, Pasadena Phil said:
LOL.
Now that’s thinking.
I think the drinking water has become toxic. Lead poisoning perhaps? Will someone in DC please test the water?
Bill Grant:
Thank you, I thought so too. We keep shooting at liberal Dems but RINOs but insist on stepping into the line of fire. Which side are you guys on anyway?
Bill Grant: hypothetical scenario.
Who would you vote for?
Liberal Pyle O’Crap (R) or
Conservative Bob Barr (L)
Just wondering.
On February 3rd, 2009 at 5:03 pm, Pasadena Phil said:
Of course you did or you wouldn’t have written it, right?
Who have you actually shot at? What is this “shooting” that you do? Seems like you are just shooting your mouth off. You stated that “Nose holders are all talk”, what action have you taken on this bill?
Who have you “shot” PP?
Bill Grant,
Just so you know, I called both of my Senators (D’s) for what good it will do, I’m working my way through the R’s, I’ll get to the D’s next. During the last TWO amnesty fights, I called all 100 Senators. Ask Eric Cantor how many times a month he hears from me, more than he wants to, I’m sure.
I’m a member of FAIR, American Border Patrol, U.S. English, Heritage Foundation, Judicial Watch, and other organizations that work to stop the destruction of this country through the illegal alien inundation that Ted Kennedy set in motion with the Immigration Act of 1965. We are running out of time, this last election might have been our last chance. The RNC screwed us by manipulating the primaries to get McCain the nomination so that amnesty would not be on the ballot.
Seems like Republicans used to win elections before they decided that people like me and Virginia Patriot were the problem. Today, there are more voters registered as “no preference” than there are Republicans. And contrary to all of the media crowing about all of the new Obama Demecrats, their registrations are only about 1% higher than in 2004 when both parties were dead even. Repubs went from about 38-39% in 2004 to well under 25% today. And thanks to the Bill Grants, it continues to sink.
So Bill, would you like to change your attitude? There are more of us than there are of you? Which independents were you hoping to include in your big tent anyway? The libs clearly weren’t interested and you kicked us conservatives out. Great plan.
On February 3rd, 2009 at 5:44 pm, Virginia Patriot said:
I appreciate it, I really do. I have done similar. (Fair has been a bit of a let down by the way.)I outlined a bunch of strategies that we could have employed to stop it had the GOP been in office, now I don’t have any other than raising the roof. While I agree that illegal immigration needs to be stopped it is one of many issues. I watched aircraft full of people being flown into buildings full of people and now we have elected morons who either want to write those responsible a ticket or give them a stimulus grant to teach at Columbia.
Everyone knew the rules going in, the rules weren’t changed. McCain won because Thompson crapped out, the Huckabee kooks were saying Romney was a member of a cult, Huckabee is retarded, Guliani ran a stupid campaign and Ron Paul could only win the polls that could be pumped up by emptying your browser cache. McCain, my 3rd choice, won the primaries fair and square. I am all for closing them but I don’t think it would have made any difference. Besides, voting for someone who has “no opinion” as to whether or not Americans were behind 9/11 was just not on.
On February 3rd, 2009 at 5:59 pm, Pasadena Phil said:
Who have you shot PP?
You imbue me with special powers, the sad fact is I can’t even persuade you to tell me who you have shot.
Try an intelligent argument instead of being a blow-hard.
Who are “us”? The Greens? The Natural Law Party? The Libertarians? The Workers Party? America First Party? The American Nazi Party? Reform Party? Social Democrats? Socialist Workers Party? Light Party? Labor Party?
Who is this “us” that nominated you to be their spokes-model?
Must have missed the memmo.
I posted this in 2006 that the RNC was planning another cram down and an amnesty candidate.
GOP=WHIG
The Republican Party under GWB seems intent on political suicide. Pandering to citizens of other countries illegally in our country while telling us we must be vigilantes if we object to illegal aliens ignoring our borders and laws. Mel Martinez is RNC Chairman to ensure an open borders candidate in ‘08. The cheap labor express will be kept running, regardless of the consequences, to party or country.
GOP-RIP
“At what point should we expect the approach of danger? By what means are we to fortify against it? Shall we expect some trans-Atlantic military power to step across the ocean and crush us? Never. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it cannot and it will not come from abroad. If danger ever reach us, it must spring up from amongst us. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we will live through all time or die by suicide.”
Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865) From an 1838 speech when he was just 29 years old.
Amnesty and open borders is national suicide. None of the other issues matter if we lose our country.
Because the alternative requires a lobotomy.
…but if you get elected and go to Washington, sometimes it happens naturally no matter what party you are in.
If history serves me right, this smacks of the Roman Senate. These clowns are voting themselves Pay-to-Play. It is bad enough when the voters find out they can vote themselves on the dole, but when the elected officials vote for projects that are going to put money in their pockets, whew!
WHY do we have to buy those home buyers into and equitable position in the first place????? Stop putting this on us.
They bought the homes. They signed the mortgage. Not US. Sooooo…
EXTEND the term to 30 or 35 years and lock in a rate at 6 or whatever is/was the rate but DON’T reduce the principle, and DON’T BUY DOWN THE RATES, they’ll be in the black soon enough, no need for the American taxpayer to pay for a thing.
IF anyone walks away from a mortgage, make a LAW that they can’t mortgage another structure of any kind for FIFTEEN YEARS!!! ( twice the 7 year bankruptcy credit killer)AND they still owe the original balance for the term of the 1st mortgage (25 years? 30 yrs, 40yrs?) or until paid.
It doesn’t cost the taxpayer ANYTHING and it’s spread out enough geographically that the housing market will rebound in the same time as if we did buy down mortgages, but this way is no additional cost to people who pay on time, the rest of us.
Meanwhile, housing sales have rebounded 6%. SUCK IT UP! LEAVE IT ALONE!
Somehow, after all this nonsense, Bill Grant still thinks the GOP Senators are going to suddenly develop a spine and become conservatives.
Why would they do it now when they wouldn’t do it when they had a majority? They quite literally don’t have a snowball’s chance of stopping Obama now. They don’t even appear to WANT to stop him but are more interested in “improving” the largest rip-off ever. But, Bill Grant WANTS TO BELIEVE and resents that fact that some of us are simply tired of being lied to by the same gang who wouldn’t govern as conservatives when they had multiple chances to do so.
And it is OUR fault. Go figure. I guess it is less frightening than facing up to the reality that the GOP IS the next Whig Party.
The sooner the GOP fades into irrelevance the sooner we get a CONSERVATIVE PARTY.
On February 3rd, 2009 at 7:58 pm, Virginia Patriot said:
According to google you have posted that little gem no less than 5 times since 2008. You must have it loaded into a function key.
Firstly, the Republican you are quoting gave his life to resurrect the union and would not have tolerated his words being twisted to justify national suicide because things are not as you would like them to be.
Secondly the quote is taken out of context. This was from the Lyceum speech, and it was regarding a black man who had been burned alive in St. Louis by an angry mob.
So, in reading that, do you think Lincoln was advocating national “suicide” to get it over with quickly in some drama queen hissy fit as you are doing? Or do you think Lincoln was trying to remind us that we are a link in a chain and it is our (unmet) obligation to be a strong one?
Well your “solution” to the stated problem could not be any more counterproductive than if you went in to the coyote business and smuggled immigrants yourself.
I love this country, I have fought for it, my people are buried here since the 1600s and “getting it over with quickly” is not an option for me. No, I don’t like what is going on, but I am trying to minimize the damage until it can be rolled back.
I wonder how large Porkulus needs to be before Obama realizes this albatross must be vetoed. (/sarc)
Bill,
I don’t doubt for a minute that you love the country. And my folks are buried here too. And that includes my dad who died wearing the uniform of his country.
But, I don’t understand how you can still have any faith left in the GOP. I am NOT trying to be insulting. I was with you up until about 2005. And then I realized that they had sold out completely.
The GOP is a “socialist lite” party. And they aren’t very good at being socialists. The Dems will beat the GOP every time the choice is between socialist parties.
I really believe that the GOP has destroyed itself for the next 10 to 20 years over the last 8 years of malfeasance. If they are that dead, then it is time to move on and form a new conservative party.
I just don’t see the point in trying to resurrect a bunch of socialist-wannabees. I’d rather build a real conservative party than brush off some “never-were-conservatives” who will govern as socialists when they eventually do get elected.
On February 3rd, 2009 at 10:20 pm, WarEagle82 said:
We have immediate problems that not going to be addressed by 1) reinventing the wheel and 2) dangerous, stupid, paranoid demagogues who “have no opinion” on whether or not 9/11 was committed by Americans against Americans.
Because Americans who don’t want the country to go into the crapper will hopefully MAKE them.
Good thing we got rid of all the RINO’s, eh?
So you want to get LIED TO by a whole NEW gang of hapless crackpots who couldn’t manage their way out of a wet paper bag. Not only that, but anyone who is a 9/11 truther is MENTALLY ILL. OK? Understand that you idiot, anyone who believes 9/11 is an inside job is MENTALLY ILL.
Bull, Divorse conservatives fromn the GOP and you are going to see both whither. Meanwhile the socialists are going to have free reign while IDIOTS like you wait for the latest “only man who can save America” to come in on a white horse and do exactly what you and you alone wish. Grow the hell up.
Bill,
MY BAD……
I should have checked my sources. Michael Steele is a Pro-Life Catholic.
Sorry for the disinformation.
Agreed. Uphill fight, yes, but winable. The amnesty fight proved it. Yes, we have our spinless liberal Republican Senators, but then there are the Blue Dogs on the other side.
Yes we can! IMHO
So instead of pushing them away from that we want to toss up our hands and reinvent the wheel. Do you think your conservative party is going to get hard core conservatives elected in the blue states?
They screwed up good, we don’t HAVE THE LUXURY of taking 10 years to rebuild it though. Can’t you see what’s going on?
Well you are off to a pretty lousy start: Tin foil hat wearing neophytes who want to close all our foreign bases and gut the military. “Real conservatives” you say? As you trash people like Orrin Hatch as RINO’s?
So getting elected is somehow a part of the plan now…
How is this supposed to help people who cant make their mortgage payments, are facing foreclosure, etc, etc, etc?
My house in AZ is now worth $100K less than I bought it for. The new home development slashed prices right after I bought mine, and I paid the highest price the were going for. I’ve tried to refi several times, but prices are so low from foreclosures, etc, my loan is about $30K more than what comparable homes are now going for.
No other bank will even return my calls once they run the “comps” and value my house based on all the foreclosures.
Aside from a lot of people in my same situation, a lot of other people took huge equity loans and are even more upside down.
So how is all this supposed to benefit the people who are in various stages of trouble?
will the next demand be to reduce principal balances as well so people can get these mortgages, rather than allowing the market to rebound?
On February 3rd, 2009 at 11:23 pm, Flyoverman said:
Still a RINO,
Yes we can!* Testify My Brother!
*knocking on wood as I say that.
Aren’t we all.
As Rush pointed out it took 40 years of educating the public to get to Newt’s 1994 Coup. If we believe in what we believe, we start the long road back.
It means educating young people, challenging them to think. It is showing through historical examples why progressive solutions always fail. Our kids need to understand the simplistic beauty of our Constitution and that they need to revere principles and the law and not individuals.
Obama has learned that the Schwerpunkt are the nations children. He’s right. And that’s where the battle for ideas needs to be joined.
I am at a point in my life where 40 years will be too late for me to see things where they should be, but my son and daughter will. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE HERE FOR.
Still in the fight.
FELLOW POSTER’S,
We have failed. We need to pull out an oldy, but goody, straight from the Al Gore Golden Oldies Archives. Using his own words we need to frame the Obama Simulus Plan and truly call it what it deserves to be called.
A risky scheme
I got your back.
And thanks for making me look up “Schwerpunkt“.
(Ill be trying to work that in to my conversations tomorrow. )
Sweet. We are now officially a half a horde.
On February 3rd, 2009 at 11:58 pm, Flyoverman said:
There are seriously plenty of us. There has been so much to make a clear eyed American angry and just about everyone I talk to is either mad as hell or doped up on obamamania and the obamamaniacs are going to crash hard when he shows himself to be fallible. (If word is ever allowed to get out.)
Once we reach that point we are going to have to have an alternative, positive, credible message that we can coalesce around and use it to maximize our freedoms and our prosperity while also accepting the responsibilities and obligations that come with them. Our own “morning in America” only with a recognition that we have some bills to pay.
It starts with stopping things like this stimulus, card check, amnesty, etc.
Every time you hear the word “crisis”, realize that that is stage 3 of the 4 step process from freedom to Communist Normalization.
More people need to understand how far along in this process we currently are, and how close we are to losing everything.
Watch this:
Recorded over 25 years ago, it’s practically prophetic in light of current events. But it’s not prophesy…it’s Soviet Ideological Subversion.
I guess Bill is still working through some grief over the GOP selling out conservatives, America and their own souls. The problem is he is stuck between stage 1 (denial) and stage 2 (anger) and seems to lash out pretty quickly at anyone who has progressed beyond the earliest stages.
Anyone who disagrees with him are “IDIOTS” and needs to “grow up.” Yeah, Bill is going to rebuild the GOP that way. Hope you work through your grief, Bill. You will be a better person when you do.
In case you aren’t familiar with the stages of grief they are:
Bill,
I have in no way ADVOCATED national suicide. I’m simply pointing out that IS what we are doing. A nation that will not enforce its own laws and control it own borders will cease to be a nation.
I ran your post through the moonbat crybaby to English, English to moonbat crybaby translator:
On February 4th, 2009 at 9:54 am, WarEagle82 said:
…eating babies, raping nuns and stealing human organs and fire doesn’t melt steel….
Because you haven’t seen reality like I have: starting a whole new party with people who aren’t sure whether JFK was shot by Oswald or whether or not Dick Chaney was flying remote control airliners into the twin towers is much more efficient than working with the GOP.
Kuz Once the country is completely run into the ground by the democrats, Then we can get our drooling middle aged virgin troother moonbats to sweep in for a glorious “conservative” revolution involving pulling up all our foreign bases and conducting witch hunts for imagined villains in the Bush administration!
Kuz we got plenty of time to sit back and bi3ch and whine and wait for the next “only man who can save America” to come in and make everything perfect again, just like it used to be… Why don’t you see reality Bill?
On February 4th, 2009 at 10:51 am, Virginia Patriot said:
Sorry, the words you chose made it sound like you would rather get it over with quickly than fight it every step of the way.
The solution that you have been endorsing here has effectively worsened the problem and made it harder to address.
Bill,
What I have been advocating is that we elect people who WILL enforce the laws and secure the border. The current crop WILL NOT. The Dems want cheap votes, the Reps want cheap labor, no one is representing the citizens. We have been sold out by our government.
Posted this before the primaries:
We the People of the United States of America have the right to have our borders and our laws respected and enforced.
If we wish to keep our representative Republic, and our rule of law, we must elect a President who WILL secure the borders and enforce the laws. The actions of the next President will determine the fate of this great nation. If citizenship becomes meaningless, this will no longer be the United States of America.
The primary responsibility of the U.S. government is to protect the territorial integrity and people of this country. They have completely abdicated this responsibility. Both parties have been complicit in this. We are being told it is not possible to control our borders, enforce our laws, and thereby control our destiny as a nation. Hogwash. We are being sold out by corporations intent on importing workers for jobs that can’t be exported with the taxpayers paying the true costs, financial and human. If we act like sheep and don’t stop the inundation across our borders, we will lose our country without a bleat.
—————————————-
Electing McCain would not have stopped amnesty, it arguably may have made it more likely to pass. It must be stopped and I will continue to fight ANYONE advocating national suicide(amnesty). If we lose that one, the rest does not matter, won’t be our country anymore.
VAPat,
You see the problem is that we don’t submit to Bill’s superior intellect and worship at his feet. We think for ourselves and he just can’t seem to stand that.
Any opinion at odds with his facts and his opinion is unaccepatable to Bill. Bill is always right in Bill’s mind. It is his way or the highway.
Notice how he always twists someone’s point and sets up a strawman argument and then engages in ad hominem attacks. Holy Cow! Bill is a Democrat! I wonder if he is secretly Michelle Obama?
On February 4th, 2009 at 12:41 pm, Virginia Patriot said:
Me too. So what do we do when confronted with the viable choice is between a bonehead who can be scared into submission or an elitist, sanctimonious, grievance collecting, allynskyite, crooked, racist, pathologically lying, hard core socialist creep who
thinks that youis sure that you are a racist for voicing any objection to his agenda of “redistributive justice” based on skin pigment or reproductive organs?We have to make them. It is as simple as that. If phone calls or emails don’t work we need to pile into the cars and go there to demand that they listen.
The verb there is “elect”. Here is your choice: persuade people that this is the only issue that counts or at least the Schwerpunkt of the issues that we face. (heh, did it!) Good luck with that because we are in a 2 front war, LSmith lost $100,000 dollars on his/her house, my IRA has past the point of floating belly up and now sunk to the bottom, Our manufacturing base has been shipped to goddamn stinking communist China where they are going to use it to toss us out of the Pacific Region… On and on and on….
…You can persuade them that illegals are the only issue that we face and that we should elect someone who is going to act solely on that issue or go for the best that we can get elected and work to hold them accountable.
Yes. So have the citizenry, people turn a blind eye or hire them to save a nickel or 2. There would be no supply if there weren’t a demand. Many are taken advantage of and treated like crap. The savings on the cheap labor is more than offset but that is someone else’s immediate problem. That is the mindset you are working against, immediate gratification. (Lots of that going around.
)
I think you know where I stand and what I advocate. What is your better alternative? What do we do now to reverse this thing? What are your action steps?
The only thing I have seen from you is that the GOP sucks and it is sucky and it sucks a whole lot and the people in it suck and everything sucks except for Chuck Baldwin who doesn’t suck.
Set aside whether or not you agree with me for a moment and examine the situation; Should Chuck Baldwin ever be elected president.
So the solution was to elect Obama.
I outlined for you a bunch of strategies that we could have used on a McCain presidency to stop an Amnesty. Real concrete things that we could have done. What is your plan for Obama?
All I have seen you do is trash the GOP. Is everyone in the GOP pro-amnesty? Is everyone in the democrats anti-amnesty?
WarEagle82:
I sometimes wonder how he comes to the conclusions he does from the words I have posted.
Did not vote for Chuck Baldwin.
One treasonous party was plenty, we don’t need two. If the GOP won’t represent the citizens, they need to go the way of the Whigs. I have no hope that the Democrats will ever do the right thing for America. I had hoped that the GOP would. There are some good ones left in the party, however, the party hierarchy is determined that we will not stop the cheap labor express. If that does not change, I will not support the dissolution of my country by supporting the GOP.
On February 4th, 2009 at 1:16 pm, WarEagle82 said:
Took you long enough to catch on.
Are there different “facts” for different people?
I don’t twist anyone’s points and calling you a ninny isn’t an “attack” it is doing you a favor. Like pointing out your shoes are untied or that your zipper is down. Perhaps you weren’t aware that truthers are mentally unstable and shouldn’t be handed the keys to nuclear weapons. Now you do. No need to say thanks.
On February 4th, 2009 at 1:45 pm, Virginia Patriot said:
The whole “meaning” of words thing.
RINO!
I guess this is the point of the program where you ignore the questions posed to you and revert back to bumper stickers.
No one is asking you to support the dissolution of the USA, indeed I am asking you to fight it every step of the way in the most efficient means possible. Unfortunately we are low on options. unless you can think of any more that make sense.
Bill, the only thing they truly fear is not being re-elected. Primary challenges should be mounted, failing to dislodge them by that means, withholding votes from those who continually screw us is the only way to get rid of the backstabbers.
You see any elections going on at the moment this side of Iraq?
Sure. I would run but some misguided souls find me a tad bit obnoxious. Idiots.
And replacing them with what? When we are on the other side of the primaries and our guy has lost because (hypothetically) we live in a sh!t head state, then what? “LOTE and work” or setting your hair on fire?