Reid blocks bipartisan amendment requiring citizenship verification for stimulus recipients
GOP Sen. Jeff Sessions and Democrat Sen. Ben Nelson attempted several times to bring their bipartisan amendment to the floor last week. SA 239 would require local governments and businesses that receive porkulus money to use the federal E-Verify citizenship check system.
On the House side, a long term extension of the E-Verify program passed there 407-2 (Conservative Oasis).
But Democrat Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid refused to allow it to come to the floor. Now, we’re headed for cloture.
“While it is difficult to believe that Senate leaders might insist that illegal aliens have the same chance at new stimulus jobs as unemployed Americans, this scenario may now be at hand,” says Roy Beck of Numbers USA. “SA 239 is now unlikely to receive a floor vote.”
The provision is not included in the Sellout Substitute Amendment forged by the Turncoat Caucus and the Democrats.
Who’s Dingy Harry looking out for?
“Undocumented Americans,” of course.
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- Reid blocks bipartisan amendment requiring citizenship checks for stimulus recipients — But As For Me
- The Stimulus Package is not designed to save the economy, it’s designed to save liberalism - Unemployment and Stimulus « Jim Blazsik
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- Andale andale, ariba ariba - Stimulus for Illegal Aliens! Harry Reid blocks bipartisan amendment requiring citizenship verification for stimulus recipients | Fire Andrea Mitchell!
- Michelle Malkin: Reid blocks bipartisan amendment requiring citizenship verification for stimulus recipients money for illegal illegals paid by you and your children and there children thanks to Harry Reid Democrats Barack Hussein Obama and 3 Turncoat Rep
- Michelle Malkin: Reid blocks bipartisan amendment requiring citizenship verification for stimulus recipients money for illegal illegals paid by you and your children and there children thanks to Harry Reid Democrats Barack Hussein Obama and 3 Turncoat Rep
- Michelle Malkin: Reid blocks bipartisan amendment requiring citizenship verification for stimulus recipients money for illegal illegals paid by you and your children and there children thanks to Harry Reid Democrats Barack Hussein Obama and 3 Turncoat Rep
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Categories: Employer Sanctions, Harry Reid, fiscal stimulus
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US Population Clock:
http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html
Current US Pop.: U.S. 305,782,455
(as of this writing @ 10:04am PT)
Overall, we add over 100,000 persons to the US population each month, while, at the same time, we have averaged job losses of about 550,000 recently. Why shouldn’t we protect Americans who are struggling to make ends meet by protecting their jobs? What is wrong with that???
To impose a mandatory tax on Americans to provide economic benefits to persons living here without legal permission (much less working here lacking permission – and many of whom also pay no or less than their fair share of taxes to boot…) lacks a Constitutional basis IMHO.
Permanent Dem control. Thanks Snowe, Collins, Specter.
I am not clear if you are saying that the stimulus is the tool which protects their jobs; however, an economic recovery requires that the causes of the failures be addressed and not just the effects of those failures.
In some cases, those jobs might be temporarily saved, but the businesses employing them might ultimately fail anyway since they had less motivation to fix the problem when they could simply be saved by the government.
Macro economics can be a tough thing in capitalism when perceived from the view of individual stories of people losing jobs, but you cannot “fix” capitalism with a socialist program. No one likes the job losses or rise in unemployment, but our economic system grew to be great under the fundamental principles of capitalism. To abandon them now due to panic could do even more harm and prolong the pain. Not to mention that the money for this spending has to come from somewhere. The growing population clock you reference might be the best reference of all as to who will have to pay the bill.
On this, we are agreed. However, constitutional merit does not seem to be of much concern to Congress these days.
Qualifier for poster Salt –
Sorry, wasn’t too clear… I meant: from allowing illegals to encroach upon the competition for jobs, not to imply that the American worker has an unconditional ‘right’ necessarily to a job.
Totally agree with you about the Congress and the Constitution thing.
I don’t see anybody suggesting that we abandon the fundamental principles of capitalism. I do see people saying that the government should require that any employers receiving “stimulus” money must verify that the people it employs are legally in the country. How can anybody argue with that?
Yes, T-Dave. The United States of America isn’t a nation limited by the archaic idea of being defined by geographical borders. The USA is an idea
bringing hope and change to the entire world. In that sense, all people of Earth are citizens of the USA.
/obama-demagog-mode off
People breaking into my country (my home) should be treated like people breaking into my house (my home).
Brad_sk… Mr. Beck IS a TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT!
He built NumbersUSA to make Americans aware of whats happening in this country. He keeps citizens informed of what YOUR Govt. is doing to INCREASE IMMIGRATION… LEGAL & ILLEGAL!
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/
I suggest you watch the videos he has on his site explaining what NumbersUSA hopes to do for YOU and YOUR CHILDREN!
You are right..You can not just trust my answer for that question…Similarly proofs should come from law enforcement or third party. You are contradicting your self here – much like huffpo libtard… Idiot.
Secondly SPLC has clearly given reasoning on why/how linked NumbersUsa to John Tanton.
Harry can “just smell” tourists coming in the summer in Washington.
His real opinion of illegals would be interesting to hear. My guess is he thinks they “really” stink but the smell of money and power is his deodorant!
Too bad the illegals cannot figure out how they are all being used as pawns and are helping this country become like those they are escaping from.
Very true..This is the argument behind Kerkorian’s book on the case against immigration. I am in this camp. I don’t believe that recent immigrants any different than for great grandfathers. I feel the reason we should reduce illegal immigration is because we already have a healthy population.
Sorry, flenser. As I mentioned, I wasn’t certain what the reference to saving the jobs was. On this point, I agree. The stimulus should not go to illegal immigrants. I apologize for my confusion on the earlier post. I mistook it as an argument pro-stimulus.
vigilantism: GWB’s description of Americans watching for illegal boarder crossings and reporting to ICE…what a president he was.
I prefer to call it the 2nd American Revolution as opposed to being vigilantism.
Look, you left wing troll, stop pretending that I’m the “libtard” here.
It took me ten seconds with google to turn up some examples of your commenting history around the internet.
For instance, leaping to the defence of Nancy Pelosi when some conservative attacked her over at a left-wing web site.
You also quote the far-left SPLC as if it’s a source which is worth anything.
Here you are responding to the question “How would you like 50K Somali’s moved into your 10K resident community, courtesy of Uncle Sam?”. Your answer -
You’re a left-wing loon of exactly the sort that infests HuffPo.
The question I’m asking you is why anyone not badly infected with the moonbat virus thinks that the SPLC is worth citing on any topic.
And your inital lie was that that Tanton was a member of the Klan, not that he was somehow linked to NumbersUSA.
If you were not so illiterate, you might have noticed that even the lying lefties at the SPLC did not say that Tanton was a klansman. You made that up yourself out of your own twisted little lefty brain.
Well, then you would have also got examples of various posts where I supported and praised true conservative Ron Paul…or you just conveniently left those examples out as you did with Somalis reference. Why didn’t you paste my next two lines of comment on that? Afraid of truth or just plain liberalism or should I say RINOism?
Did you even bother to read the link/report? or you just wanted to lie on the SPLC itself? I am not saying SPLC might be right here..I am trying to see proofs/references on what is incorrect in their report? But I guess debating with libtards like you is useless in finding truth. Keep continuing to worship your lying RINO/libtard gods, jerk.
What did I “conveniently” leave out with the Somali reference? Go ahead and cite it if you think it helps you. But it does not.
It’s hardly news to anyone that a lot of Pauls support was coming from the left. That’s why his supporters have become a running joke on every conservative web site.
I did read that disgusting lefty hit piece. Nowhere does it claim that Tanton is an ex-klansman. As I say, you made that crap up all by yourself.
I guess debating with libtards like you
Right. You’re the one with the hard left commenting history, but I’m the libtard. Perhaps you can extract your head from whatever orifice it’s crammed into long enough to explain exactly what “libtard” positions you think I’m taking.
Let me ask you straight out: What political theory do you espouse?
Point well taken. I pray this 2nd Revolution is not as bloody as the last one!
From that garbage SPLC link -
Great, they cite themselves as calling FAIR a “hate group”.
I, flenser, hereby list the SPLC as a hate group. See how easy that is?
I encourage everyone else mentioning the SPLC from now on to say “.. the SPLC, which flenser has listed as a hate group ..”.
Sometimes, it is hard for me to determine who are trolls and who aren’t! For instance, I am a very very right wing conservative grandmother (who only drives my car on Sundays to go to church). I always have been conservative, and always will be. My posts have always been conservative, yet Pasadena Phil totally went off on me, calling me a moron and a “leftie” and accusing me of trying to sabbotage the thread. It was very hurtful. I know the written word can sometimes be misunderstood. We need to read the posts very carefully and think before we respond so as not to hurt the feelings of like-minded people who are here to get comfort from each other. Everyone should feel free to express their opinions, but in a courteous manner, if possible. Of course, that excludes the obvious trolls like lgm, redstate and i hatemycountry. You can be nasty to them all you want!
brad_sk, I can’t really tell from your posts, but what exactly is your beef with NumbersUSA? Set aside for a minute ANYTHING that worthless SPLC has to say. They throw around racists/bigots/xenophobes more often than Sharpton and Jackson combined. Your beef appears to be based on their belief (and mine) that an overall decrease in immigration (legal and illegal) is required. Something you appear to agree with, at least for illegal immigration. Our population growth is unsustainable and the primary reason is due to 1) mass legal immigration 2) high birth rates of the immigrant populations and 3) illegal immigration. In that order. Illegal immigration is considered a pittance of the first 2 causes in absolute numbers. Even the Census bureau projects a population exceeding 500M by 2060 and appraoch 1B by the turn of the century. I don’t see how that could be considered a good thing by anyone.
brad_sk is a moron and a lefty. Read his comments and this and other threads, and on other sites, and judge for yourself.
Here:
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4
Link 5
The only reason I’m not calling him a moby is because so far he’s not claimed to be on the right.
No doubt. But that excludes lefty trash like brad_sk. Have you seen the stuff he’s written on this site and others?
Weary Citizen, let me direct you to this thread where brad explains his thinking on immigration.
Link
Right..Any common sense based post is lefty trash for foul mouthed scumbags like you.
Brad_sk, any statement/theory proposal that includes allowing illegal immigration is trash, lefty or otherwise.
Wow, I went to that link. Sounds like Brad_sk wants to give entire states that aren’t heavily populated to illegals. I wonder what the citizens of those states think of that idea? Hmmmm…And just how would those illegals earn their keep? I don’t want to open a new discussion, but I can see why Brad’s ideas are a bit “misguided”. If I lived in one of those “throw-away” states, I would be rather miffed with ole’ Brad!
Thanks flenser. I remember that thread. But, from what I can deduce, I believe brad is opposed to illegal immigration. He is, however, 100% in favor of current mass immigration levels. I don’t understand it but there are many good conservatives who feel this way. “ALL legal immigration is good”. I beleive that view completely ignores the quality of immigrants let in.
I started thinking my prior assessment of him may be wrong when he referenced the SPLC denouncement of NubmersUSA and FAIR. Few if any conservatives would ever use the SPLC as a source of information. They are worse than even the ACLU. But I hope I am wrong. We need everybody we can get to fight back the up coming amnesty those idiots in congress will trot out soon enough. In any case, no offense meant to anyone. Differing opinions make it more fun. Chap is an excellent poster.
No, there are not. Not unless you consider Bush, McCain, Giuliani etc to be good conservatives. There are no conservative arguments to be made for mass immigration. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody even try. That’s why we get McAmnesty talking about “Gods children”.
I think you’re giving him way too much credit there. He seems to be one of those people who claims to oppose it in theory, but is fine with it in practice. Even without bothering to look I can tell that he’s one of those who uses the “you can’t deport twelve million people” line.
You are correct on first point but not on second point…Let me clarify my views – I am opposed to illegal immigration but not because they are different than our great grandfathers. We are country of immigrants and I consider current Mexicans as hardworking individuals (except for a small percentage of criminals which would be there in any ethnic group). I am against illegal immigration in large numbers because we already have a good population. Link
But I am for getting legal immigrants (skilled or unskilled) wherever necessary in controlled numbers. If we need a good number of low skilled worked to dig some new found oil (Drill Baby Drill!) in Dakotas, then I am for it. Similarly, if we need some high tech immigrants from China/India to develop a next product in CA or NY, I am up for it as well.
I do not discredit any information just because it came from left source. I discredit based on valid facts/proofs. In this case I found SPLC argument more convincing than NumbersUSA’s. Add to the fact that I have seen bogus claims by NumbersUSA in their against LEGAL immigration.
Braddy, you would not know common sense if you fell in a lake of the stuff. And lefty trash is exactly what you’re posting here with your SPLC garbage.
You even go beyond the SPLC in calling Tanton an ex-klansman. I guess you read that at some other moonbat site.
I too hope that we will “drill baby drill” and that many jobs will be generated. However, I want those jobs to go to American citizens, not illegal aliens. Our own people are hurting and in desperate need of work. They should come first!!
There’s the understatement of the year.
But as I say, even the moonbats at the SPLC did not call Tanton an ex-klansman. So I’m still waiting for you to try to justify your lies.
They are NEVER neccessary. And wanting to fill all those empty states does not square with your current effort to sound reasonable.
Care to share? I have found their research impeccable and very well articulated.
I love Mark Krikorian. FAIR and NubmersUSA has teamed wiht him before. YOu might be interested in see wht the SPLC has to say about him.
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/tag/mark-krikorian/
Chappy is a dishonest hypocrite. I lost any respect for him when he alleged last year that Palins husband was a tax cheat.
You’ll notice he is silent as the parade of actual Democratic tax cheats rolls on by.
Chappy is a perfect Obama Dem – there’s a thin veneer of seeming to be sensible and open-minded over a hard-core left-wing ideologue.
Wow, you are brutal. I can deal wiht Chap. He is not ususally a grenade thrower.
OT, what happened to “Rob”? Haven’t seen him posting in a while. But I almost always agreed with his, and by proxy, your stances. Was wondering if he got booted. He could flame with the best of them.
Heres one…They are not just being deceptive but flat out lying here. The bill was only to recapture unused green card numbers from past few years. USCIS has been very inefficient in giving out green cards to LEGAL immigrants even after their years or wait resulting in wastage of numbers every year. I know this issue in-and-out as I work and am also involved in hiring of legal immigrants for technology work.
Again, I don’t discredit Kerkorian just because SPLC says so!
He’s not. But I prefer people who are little more upfront and honest. I’ll take a lgm over a chappy.
I’m not flaming anyone, just stating the facts and calling out people on their lies. If little braddy wants to drop by at Ace of Spades I’ll be a little more blunt than can be allowed here.
So you’re an immigration lawyer? Or somebody who makes money in some fashion from the immigration racket?
Still waiting for you to explain that “ex-klansman” remark.
What specifically are you saying they are lying about there? They describe the bill as “recapturing” the so-called unused green cards from 1992 to the present. Do you say they are wrong about that, either the process or the time frame?
And? You have issue with the 1992 stated cutoff? Sorry, I don’t usually read all the bills that come out DC (I am not a masochist) so I don’t know exactly what the bill said. But maybe iterations came and went and this was backlevel. I have no idea but if it is isolated mistake, that is understandable.
Ah, that explains a lot. If I made my living through immigration, I would be in full support of more too. Heck wiht what is good for hte country long term, just give me my big bonus. Kind of makes one blind to the population explosion. Now, I support limited immigraiton of the truly best and brightest or for industries in REAL need. Not trumped up need to lower wages. The best and the brightest are good for America. But, uneducated ditch diggers, not so much. Millions of immigrants every year via legal immigration will only result in sever problems down the road.
Thats the beginning lie there…Theres nothing to recapture from 1991..Pro (legal) immigrant groups pushing this were not even trying to recapture form 1991. They were trying to use wasted green card numbers from 2000+. Secondly NumbersUSA says the bill’s green cards are for low skilled immigrants which a total lie. The recapture of wasted green cards were for EB2 and EB3 categories which are for very skilled immigrants.
Nope…I make no profit from immigrants and I am not in immigration business. My project will go well either with technically good Americans or immigrants. I just happen to work with them and we do hire immigrants when we cant get Americans within the deadline of the project.
True..thats why we need to eliminate family based LEGAL immigration (chain migration). Employment based legal immigration is very limited number and good. All of the employment based immigrants do have pay social security and Medicare and taxes!.
If by the past few years you mean 1992 until now, sure.
If that’s not what you mean then you are lying again.
The bill specifies the date range covered as being 1992 onwards. So it’s hardly a lie to say that the bill covers the date range from 1992 onwards.
I bet. That happens a lot, huh?
STILL waiting for you to justify that “ex-klansman” comment. Or admit you made it up, one or the other.
You’re lying again, brad. NumbersUSA did not say that.
Given your reading comprehension problems, the only way you can have a gotten a management position in the tech field is via affirmative action.
Here is what they actually said.
Cool. We agree. Chain migration and misinterpreted 14th amendment allowing anchor babies are 2 scourges on our society. Employment visas need to have the loopholes closed. If you believe they are not abused by corporations in order lower their cost structure, I have a bridge to sell you. Employment visas are good if they are for: 1) someone with exceptional skills or brilliance in higher level skill area (no “this is the smartest ditch digger ever” nonsense immigration lawyers would use to circumvent the intent) 2) there is a documented, well researched, shortage of a particular skill. Skills limited to technology, science, medicine, research, etc. Blue collar jobs would be filled if employers raise wages to draw in new employees. There is no need to perpetuate the race to the bottom for wages on blue callar jobs. Period. Same goes for white collar jobs. No race to the bottom of wages for middel class either.
Excellent research and retort flenser. I was to lazy to go confirm. Well, I am multitasking now really and not smart enough to take on anohter task.
Brad, what’s your nationality? Indian? Chinese?
I don’t normally make a big deal of grammar mistakes. But you’ve made them consistently all through this thread, and you claim to be some sort of manager at a big corporation.
Either you’re a high school drop-out playing games with us, or English is not your native language.
Yes we do!…Agreed that lopholes need to be closed on employment based immigration but that doesn’t mean we should support NumbersUsa’s lies on blocking bill for legal employment based immigration.
Agreed, but this is easier said than done. Upto certain limits companies will increase wage to hire an american when LEGAL immigration is reduced. Once that point is reached they will not increase wages further. They wil be under pressure from shareholders and will just outsource entire work to China, India or easten Europe where they can get the work done in half the salary:(. If only retards at Numbersusa can understand this now…or do they not want to understand and just push their white only agenda as ordered by their chief Roy Beck?
I knew it. You’re not white, are you you braddy?
It’s ok if you don’t respond. Everyone reading can draw their own conclusions from what you say, and what questions you refuse to answer.
Or they can insource people who can’t write English properly. Like you.
You’re not in this country because you’re smart and hard-working, braddy. You’re here because your employer wants to drive down US wages.
As has already been made clear, the only person lying about that bill is you.
If all immigrants are as stupid and dishonest as you then God help America.
This is why I don’t respond to you…You are just a foul mouthed libtard.
Did I say I was not white or brown or black?…and why are so happy wrongly convincing yourself that I am not white? Don’t expect any answer until you first read the SPLC link & numbersusa link (which will asnswer some of your questions) and learn how to control your dirty tongue.
BTW another lie from numbes usa in the link – “A summary is that of the three main employment-based (EB) categories, the two that are designated for “the best and the brightest” do not have long waits; “…
Check out the numbers for second category in the state department website ( research and figure out, else you will never learn the truth) and you can see the wait there…A blatant lie by numberssa in the link. Also third category is not ordinary or low skilled… thats fourth and fifth category. Again we (not me) in the company do hire high tech legal immigrants and so I know this.
Funny, it looks like you’re at least pretending to respond to me now.
Well, I may be foul mouthed, but you seem as ignorant as to the meaning of “libtard” as to everything else.
Here is a hint. You and your buddies at the SPLC are libtards. Your term for us is “wingnuts”. Try to remember.
Did I say you did?
If you are a native American white than I’m a Martian. English is not your native tongue. The only other possibility is you may be a black American, some of whom are a bit challenged in the English-speaking department.
But I’ll still go with you being Indian or Asian.
Nowhere in the SPLC link does it say that Tanton is an ex-klansman. I’ve told you this many times already. Maybe back in India you don’t have this concept of “fact”. But if you’re gonna live in our country you’d better pick it up fast.
You change your story more often than your underwear, braddy.
First you made out that you were actively involved in the whole process if hiring tech workers. Then you downgraded that. Now you say that you have no involvement with the hiring process at all.
I’ll say it again, braddy. If you’re an example of a legal immigrant in the tech field then we need to deport you all ASAP. You possess all the IQ of my mouse pad.
What is it about your unbroken string of lies that makes me doubt your word here?
Go peddle your anti-white bs to your (non-white) friends.
Definitely Indian, either Hindu or Muslim.
Boy…you have the superiority complex of say Dick Cheney or so…but reasoning and maturity of a small kid. Add the shallow knowledge on things to that…
Also try to calmly & cohesively put all your thoughts into one post…I just see you reply twice or thrice to each one of my post. Grow up, kid…
Try to extract your head from whatever dark hole it’s stuck in and explain why you think that Tanton is an ex-klansman.
You may not be able to think, or write in English, but you can do simple aritmitic. Your boss must be very pleased with you. Is he Indian too?
His name is Krikorian – if you can’t get something so basic as this correct, why should we believe anything you say about your beliefs about something as complex as a policy about the economy and legal immigration. Kerkorian is a big-wig investor dude.
Oh, for your benefit, the “other” part of the stimulus package that you haven’t mentioned (at least since I last checked in here… ) is that the Grassley-Sanders Amendment to limit the provision of Stimulus funds/jobs to H-1b holders passed (is part of the overall bill)
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/february-6-2009/senate-passes-grassleysanders-amendment-protect-american-workers.html
“The Senate adopted by voice vote an amendment to the economic stimulus bill sponsored by Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT). The amendment prevents businesses who receive stimulus funds from hiring foreign H-1B workers for one year”.
Having some experience and knowledge in an area similar to yours, I’ll add that I simply and wholeheartedly disagree with you. The need for “skilled” foreign workers, while it exists for narrow and specific areas, is mostly exaggerated in the name of greed and greater profit margins. The program was never supposed to be a de facto means to discriminate against Americans – which, such labor importation programs often do. There is no “right” for an employer to have cheap imported labor. Nowhere in the Constitution or other body of law is such a right identified.
H-1b program is a sham – some evidence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
Also, footnote to the above…
The topic of LEGAL immigration is not completely separate and distinct from the subject of ILLEGAL immigration.
Presently, approx. 40% of all persons in the US illegally entered initially under some form of legit visa: tourist, student, and temporary/guest worker.
Many people get here, and simply don’t go home when they are supposed to.
*IF*, and *WHEN* we identify and remove all those persons, then we can sit down and have a reasonable conversation about how many and which legal immigrants should be allowed in.
PhredE, as usual, good post.
flenser, I admire your passion, but it could be toned down a tad. But, don’t lose that passion.
At first, I thought I might agree with some of brads points. However, when he started using SPLC as a reference then called NumbersUSA a liar and other adhominem attacks (including the tried and true liberal ploy of “raaaacists”) with NOTHING to back it up but SPLC says so, he lost me. He obviously hates and wants to discredit NumbersUSA to advacne his own agenda. Sorry brad, but you have failed to provide ANY evidence of what you say. And saying, “not true” or “lie” with no factual proof is your own interpretation. Common sense and anecdotal evidence proves that mass immigration policies (specifically kennedy’s 1964 immigration act) has deteriorated the quality of life in the US, not improved. Look at the crime statistics of 1960’s to today. Look at the 10 most wanted lists in just about any major city in the Southwest and you wil notice a pattern (hint, illegals and hispanics dominate even though they are not an absolute majority). Crowded schools and highways. Choking pollution. Gang activity increases. No go areas for whites in all major cities. The list goes on. Having grown up in the 1960’s-70’s in Texas, I have witnessed the congeniality, friendliness, and trust among citizens deteriorate. We never locked up our car or house back then. Don’t try it now. And these problems wil increase with more 3rd wolrd immigration. Anyway, it is all I have to say on the subject. I just hope your optimism is correct because I see no good ending to the country from mass immigraiton policies.
Thanks, much appreciated. Back at ya.
Typo…but point taken.
Really…Check my post at 63 in the same thread. Basics, han…?
Fine, “brad”. Explain this to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
…yaaaawwwn. I am done here.
I’d wager a guess that you have convinced no one here of the merits of your position.
Barnum was a genius. The only question is: will there be an America to save come the midterm elections in 2010??