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Comments

1. #101
   On February 12th, 2009 at 1:59 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

   I guessing you only need this part to get to a decision that the care is inappropriate.

   “….extremely expensive.”

2. #102
   On February 12th, 2009 at 1:59 pm, rightisright said:

   Bottom line, so to speak, this current democrapic congress along with most others are anti-American. there is no other way to see it.
   Day by day we are get closer to the 2nd American Revolution.

   Be prepared folks it’s going to get ugly out there.

   Investments for the future in America, gold, food, weapons and ammo.

3. #103
   On February 12th, 2009 at 2:00 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

   Explain to me how having “each patient’s health information … secure and protected, in accordance with applicable law”, available for doctors to access– is the boogie man?

   You’re confusing health records with news and history. Sure, the MSM and the liberal historians and textbook writers are doing their best to screw us over.

   But, I don’t see how having my medical record available for a doctor to access no matter where I happen to be is cause for any more concern than having my bank account online for me to be able to perform transactions.

4. #104
   On February 12th, 2009 at 2:02 pm, rambler said:

   There’s nothing like getting screwed with money we haven’t even made yet! Way to go congress!

5. #105
   On February 12th, 2009 at 2:03 pm, Mainah said:

   turbaconducken
   the economy’s suckin’
   the dems are having a feast

   the rest of us famine
   with a day to examine
   the dark recesses of the beast

   Pelosi and Reid
   are leading the feed
   Devouring the America we know

   While Snowe, Collins, and Specter
   turncoat defectors
   earn the dubious title RINO

   We American people
   out here are not sheeple
   we will never forget their deeds

   And while they sell their own souls
   for Socialist goals
   we’ll count every drop that we bleed.

6. #106
   On February 12th, 2009 at 2:04 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

   Company finacial data being online helps guide my decisions with regard to investing. No one is telling me what stocks to buy or sell. I think a few people here are reading too much into those phrases.

7. #107
   On February 12th, 2009 at 2:05 pm, behiker said:

   For years, I’ve heard so many people complaining about how out-of-date the air traffic control systems are… any money for improvements like that. You know, something that would actually be of benefit?

8. #108
   On February 12th, 2009 at 2:06 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

   Dexter,

   So you don’t agree that the body that controls the information controls the process?

   Is that what you are saying?

   I’m not confusing anything. It is one simple principle. Nothing more. So do you agree that if you control the information you then control the process or not?

9. #109
   On February 12th, 2009 at 2:09 pm, rightisright said:

   I don’t see how having my medical record available for a doctor to access no matter where I happen to be is cause for any more concern than having my bank account online for me to be able to perform transactions.

   You’ll care when National Health Care is in place and medical expenditures are approved or rejected by a bureaucrat, even to the extend in your older age are you worth the expense to be cared for medically. In short, Odumo’s national euthanasia plan for the old and infirmed, don’t believe me, read it, in Daschale’s book, which it’s tucked away in the Stupidus Bill.

10. #110
    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:12 pm, William Teach said:

    So, let me get this straight: I’m looking at the conference report (surely done over a champagne and caviar lunch), and I see $5.17 billion assigned strictly to “job training and increasing opportunities.” That’s it? So much for job creation.

11. #111
    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:15 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

    Give me an example of this control you’re so freaked out about. A doctor has a patient. He goes to his computer and accesses the patient’s record. Now what? Does his screen start blinking “GOP – Treatment Prohibited”. What information is going to be ‘controlled’ that is so sinister? Will not that information be available through other sources?
    Take your time and use small words: I was in the Air Force.

    it’s tucked away in the Stupidus Bill

    I believe it’s NOT. That’s what our argument is here.

12. #112
    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:19 pm, sonofdy said:

    I was in the Air Force

    And you DONT know how the government screws things up????

13. #113
    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:20 pm, Snooper said:

    un(sensored)believable

14. #114
    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    Dexter,

    I’ve already given you real world examples.

    You dodge the question. Do you or do you not believe that the body/person who controls the information then controls the process or not?

    Your example is flawed. If the information you are looking at to decide about your investments has been controlled in terms of its release so that it appears a company is more profitable/solid than reality, you still invest. Why? Because the information you are processing tells you a lie. How did they do it? By controlling the information.

    Your decisions are totally controlled by the type of information released or not released.

    Any by the way sir, no one is “freaking out”.

    You continue to make a point that is unsustainable. It is very much the case that who controls the information controls the process.

    If you don’t want to believe that, it is your choice. You are wrong. But its your choice.

    On to other matters.

15. #115
    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:24 pm, Send_Me said:

    The way I see it, the only viable solution We the People have here is to challenge this in court:
    1. We are citizens.
    2. We pay taxes.
    3. This bill is unconstitutional in countless ways, starting with the enumerated powers and the 10th Amendment.
    4. Passage of an unconstitutional bill is an injury upon all citizens of the United States.
    5. Due to the fact that it is our (e.g. taxpayer) money paying for this unconstitutional bill, we (e.g. taxpayer) have sufficient locus standi (standing) to file a complaint with the courts.
    Any lawyers in the house?

16. #116
    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:25 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    Dexter,

    Do you have any idea how decisions are made in health care today in terms of coverage, pay for, don’t pay for, decisions?

    Milliman and Robertson mean anything to you? Utilization review, etc., and how that works mean anything to you?

17. #117
    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    “The way I see it, the only viable solution We the People have here is to challenge this in court:”

    Yes. Our hope is that the balance of powers actually works as intended.

18. #118
    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:27 pm, Southpaw said:

    Welcome to Brazil Mr. Buttle Tuttle.

19. #119
    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:28 pm, granite said:

    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:22 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    It is very much the case that who controls the information controls the process.

    Correct.

    And the government will be paying more and more of our health care, and thus controlling more and more of it.

    Who controls the money will control the information, and thus the process.

20. #120
    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:37 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

    And you DONT know how the government screws things up????

    Oh, I know first hand how the government can screw things up, and royally. But, I don’t attribute evil intentions to those screw ups.

    So, JS. Sure, “who controls the information controls the process”. There, happy? I just don’t buy-in to the idea that the government is going to control information to the extent you believe. I read those provisions in the porkulus package as benign, unlike the original provisions which were Big Brother, Logan’s Run-ish.

21. #121
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:10 pm, rightisright said:

    Dexter Alarius, The story is here.

    Apparently neither the left or right(including rino’s) read it. Spector said he hadn’t 2 days ago. If your questioning it being in the bill, read the article.

22. #122
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:16 pm, sonofdy said:

    Oh, I know first hand how the government can screw things up, and royally. But, I don’t attribute evil intentions to those screw ups.

    It doesn’t have to be evily intended to be a bad idea. I would rather not have the government in charge of it because I know how likely it is that they would send the entirely wrong set of xrays to my doctor and have my doctor chop off the wrong arm.

    When I came in of a colonoscopy

23. #123
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:16 pm, sonofdy said:

    of = for

24. #124
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:23 pm, Weary Citizen said:

    Oh, I know first hand how the government can screw things up, and royally. But, I don’t attribute evil intentions to those screw ups.

    “The road to h*ll is paved with good intentions”, comes to mind here.

25. #125
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:33 pm, WarEagle82 said:

    From the Bloomberg.com article linked above.

    This really is the “euthanasia bill of 2009.”

    Basically, Daschle is saying that OLD PEOPLE need to die quietly. Can you imagine what would be going around if someone other than a leftist had said this? Of course, a conservative or liberterian would never say something like this!

    Elderly Hardest Hit

    Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

26. #126
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:40 pm, rightisright said:

    Dexter Alarius. My mistake, the health care portion of the bill was in the House Bill HR 1…you can scroogle it and receive a pdf copy and find the pages listed in the link I sent you.

27. #127
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:41 pm, Mr.J said:

    In any case, how the heck does having a nationalized health “database” do anything to stimulate the economy?

28. #128
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:44 pm, rightisright said:

    WarEagle82, yeah and Daschle was 1st choice? That says alot about der furer ooops der leader.

29. #129
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:45 pm, rightisright said:

    Mr. J, Good question, think it puts lumberjacks out of work.

30. #130
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:47 pm, Misscheryl said:

    No more treatment for ‘ol Ted Kennedy?

31. #131
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:50 pm, granite said:

    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:44 pm, rightisright said:

    WarEagle82, yeah and Daschle was 1st choice? That says alot about der furer ooops der leader.

    Naah, leave it. That’s all Fuehrer means, but it sure sounds more accurate.

32. #132
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:54 pm, sonofdy said:

    Get it right, it is Великолепный лидер obama великое

33. #133
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:56 pm, rightisright said:

    whoops, bad spelling here, der fueher. I always thought Fueher was more god like than just a leader, now we have Odumbo giving the same impressions.

34. #134
    On February 12th, 2009 at 3:58 pm, rightisright said:

    Misscheryl, agreed, but aren’t the Kennedy’s more equal than others?

35. #135
    On February 12th, 2009 at 4:06 pm, Misscheryl said:

    Daschle seems to think old people don’t deserve medical care and should die quicker ..but you’re right. That only applies to the working class and the sooner we accept it the better. Teddy…not so much.

36. #136
    On February 12th, 2009 at 4:14 pm, WarEagle82 said:

    Of course you have hit the nail on the head. Just like Animal Farm where all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.

    You can bet that Teddy Kennedy and Tom Daschle will not be denied ANY treatment for ANY illness for ANY reason at ANY age. But, you and I can just go lie down on the floor and die quickly and quietly to save the state from any financial burden.

    I think Orwell would be shocked to see how prescient he really was even if he were off by a decade or so.

    On February 12th, 2009 at 4:06 pm, Misscheryl said:
    Daschle seems to think old people don’t deserve medical care and should die quicker ..but you’re right. That only applies to the working class and the sooner we accept it the better. Teddy…not so much.

37. #137
    On February 12th, 2009 at 4:24 pm, rightisright said:

    WarEagle82,
    

    I think Orwell would be shocked to see how prescient he really was even if he were off by a decade or so.

    Does it not look scripted…step by step following the play book,Animal Farm, to destroy capitalism with socialism?

38. #138
    On February 12th, 2009 at 4:29 pm, Joy said:

    The time to organize was months ago! Conservatives should be doing what moveon.org is doing only with our message. We need a conservative version of George Soros and we all need to donate ourselves to take our country back peacefully. Otherwise at this point, the only way with be with weapons, and only then if we do it before hussein has time to organize HIS National Security.

    And also there should be plenty of conservatives willing to serve in that so if push comes to shove you can help from within!

    Melting phone lines and stamping money is an absurd way of protesting at this stage of the game.

    WHAT are we waiting for????

    Michelle – People like you and Ann Coulter have wide enough audiences to recruit for something like a conservative moveon.org. We need to flood the airwaves, TV and Cable. Expose these crooks and propose better plans.

39. #139
    On February 12th, 2009 at 4:29 pm, Joy said:

    60 second spots. Begin with Schumer’s oily dismissal of the chattering classes. Then on to Pelosi’s ‘no earmarks. Then a list visually and verbally of the most egregious earmarks and their costs. Then Reid’s explanation for why they aren’t calling them earmarks. Then a comment pulling that together in a pithy statement. Then say the projected amount you, your children and their children will have to pay. And end with the fact there is a better solution that is all job-creation and no pork or earmarks, but Reid and Pelosi won’t allow it. Then end with the phone number to the Capitol, Schumer’s, Reid and pelosi’s offices.

    Okay, I won’t post it in any more threads. I just want these ideas to get seen.

40. #140
    On February 12th, 2009 at 5:02 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

    We need to flood the airwaves, TV and Cable.

    Unfortunately, our enemies control the content on most of the media. And we all know what happens when someone controls the flow of information…

41. #141
    On February 12th, 2009 at 6:00 pm, et said:

    Well at least our leaders were considerate enough to allow us to keep an extra thirteen dollars a week. Golly gee thats enough for a new jar of Vaseline each day.
    This must be because of San Fran Nan’s vast experience in her districts culture. Thank you, thank you very much.

42. #142
    On February 12th, 2009 at 7:02 pm, tiredofit08 said:

    On February 12th, 2009 at 2:24 pm, Send_Me said:

    The way I see it, the only viable solution We the People have here is to challenge this in court:
    1. We are citizens.
    2. We pay taxes.
    3. This bill is unconstitutional in countless ways, starting with the enumerated powers and the 10th Amendment.
    4. Passage of an unconstitutional bill is an injury upon all citizens of the United States.
    5. Due to the fact that it is our (e.g. taxpayer) money paying for this unconstitutional bill, we (e.g. taxpayer) have sufficient locus standi (standing) to file a complaint with the courts.
    Any lawyers in the house?

    judicial watch should be doing this one…

43. #143
    On February 12th, 2009 at 8:47 pm, Mainah said:

    One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446).

    New Penalties

    Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)

    What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.

    Commentary by Betsy McCaughey
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_mccaughey&sid=aLzfDxfbwhzs

    -quote from the book “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis” :

    “Daschle’s solution lies in the Federal Reserve Board, which has overseen the equally complicated financial system with great success.”

    Senator B0 endorsed this book, saying:

    “The American healthcare system is in crisis, and workable solutions have been blocked for years by deeply entrenched ideological divisions. Sen. Daschle brings fresh thinking to this problem, and his Federal Reserve for Health concept holds great promise for bridging this intellectual chasm, and, at long last, giving this nation the health car that it deserves.”

    Imagine the implications for those raising children society has already signed off on as “less-than”? The Terri Schiavo’s and Haleigh Poutre’s? When will treatments be withheld so “nature can take its course”? Will heart surgery for the mentally retarded not be “cost-effective” enough?

    “Meaningful use” feels an awful lot like “Life unworthy of life“, to me.

    Many people are not aware that the Nazi atrocities started in little towns across Germany, when the disabled were euthanized en masse.

    “A lack of resources caused Germany and other countries to favor those who would recover versus those who would need constant care.”

    In 1920, the concept of living beings not worthy of the life they embodied gained impetus with a tract published by two university professors, Karl Binding and Alfred Hoche. Permission for the Destruction of Life Unworthy of Life articulated key implications for people with disabilities. Binding and Hoche called for the killing of people with disabilities, whom they viewed as “incurable idiots” having no will or sense of living. Killing them, therefore, was hardly involuntary euthanasia, that is, the imposition of others’ will upon them. This shifted the burden of human existence from simply being alive to requiring an explicit justification for living.

    For Binding and Hoche, therefore, the right to live was to be earned, not assumed. One earned the right to live by being a useful economic contributor to society. Chief among the individuals they saw as being useless were those who seemed to have little or no human feeling, or in their terms, “empty human husks” whose only societal function was the consuming of precious resources while contributing nothing to society in return. In Binding and Hoche’s terms, they were “useless eaters” whose “ballast lives” could be tossed overboard to better balance the economic ship of state.

    …by the end of World War I, an implicit but palpable public perception of higher economic worth was attached to people without disabilities, and lesser worth was attributed to people with disabilities. Later, the economic worth of human life under the Nazis proved a key distinction for creating and sanctioning genocide against people with disabilities.
    http://www.regent.edu/acad/schedu/uselesseaters/

    Remember BAIPA, and B0′s seeming comfort level with killing born human beings, as long as they were unwanted. That thinking does not exist in a vacuum.

44. #144
    On February 12th, 2009 at 10:34 pm, reland1 said:

    As an elder American, I have only this comment on HR1.
    I believe we will see our Constitution upended by the blatantly corrupt collectivist ideology packed into this “bill”. Every contemptible part of this package will be used to enslave us. We have lost the battle for the minds of at least 3 generations our children and will pay dearly for our lack of vigilance.

    Our only recourse at this point is full scale revolution

45. #145
    On February 13th, 2009 at 2:56 am, hitcharide said:

    Just to put things in context…yes, the democraps and obummer will deny treatment for the elderly AND the infirm, disabled (especially children, thus promoting abortion.) That’s only half of it, guys. The other half will be the systematic dumbing down and degrading of our health care system. As a disabled vet, I get most of my treatment from the VA. I had my back surgery botched by them; one “doctor” offered to prescribe me an overdose and suggested I kill myself; I’ve been forced to drive four hours one way for an appointment that then got cancelled because they forgot to send my VA file (you can have your medical record and still not be seen if they don’t have your VA file.) Take every horror story you’ve ever heard of and multiply it by ten, and that gives you VA healthcare. What I deal with everyday (and wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy) is what the government proposes to give the American public in general. Of course, this won’t apply to politicians, media personalities, the very wealthy, and whatever group is “politically in.” They have a sign in our local clinic, printed in EIGHT LANGUAGES, with interpreters availible by phone…another “convenience” that will come to your local hospital soon (maybe that’s part of the “jobs” program, hiring interpreters!) Liberals will claim it’s a good thing because health care will be “free” and availible for everyone, but the only reason they can make that claim is because they have no idea whatsoever and can’t understand the concept that whenever you make anything “free,” you also make it worthless. As MM might say, BOHICA, because the situation is FUBAR.

46. #146
    On February 13th, 2009 at 9:54 am, ammonrae said:

    Wow, all Barack is doing is playing follow the leader, which he is following Bush’s example. If you wanted change, vote for Ron Paul

47. #147
    On February 13th, 2009 at 9:56 am, ammonrae said:

    This isn’t about socialism, its about feudalism and aristocracy

48. #148
    On February 13th, 2009 at 2:59 pm, FirstSkirt said:

    Hitcharide #145 – First of all, thank you for your service to our great country (at least for now). Thanks for shouldering a huge burden that most of these corrupt politicians have never even considered doing. You have the thanks of a grateful nation (regular Americans). I am so sorry to learn of your difficulties with the VA. As a vet myself, I often pray for my fellows to be taken care of. This entire right to healthcare will doom this country and you’re right the current VA system -it is FUBAR! Wish I could help.