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Comments

1. #301
   On February 15th, 2009 at 9:58 am, nbarry said:

   While we are rightly concerned about the violence that Muslims have directed at non-Muslims, the fact is that other Muslims have been the largest number of victims of Islam-fueled violence. Think Iraq, Algeria and Darfur for starters, just as the victim of the crime that triggered this thread was a Muslim.

2. #302
   On February 15th, 2009 at 10:03 am, DBNinKY said:

   On February 15th, 2009 at 12:25 am, bluesoc said:

   I’m curious. Is anyone here friends with any Muslims?

   Thanks to the USDA about 75-90% of the MD’s and specialists in eastern KY are Muslim (anecdotal but no exaggeration), mostly from India, so yes, many of us here are acquainted with adherents of Islam.

3. #303
   On February 15th, 2009 at 10:08 am, On-my-soap-box said:

   On February 15th, 2009 at 9:23 am, FilmLadd said:

   Winston Churchill, “The River War”, 1899

   Maybe its’ just me, but I find Churchill’s opinions a tad more relevant that Bluesoc’s, even if they are over a century older

   That is because blue(stained)soc is irrelevant.

   Relevant! Gov’t can’t shut down terrorist training camps in U.S.

   But Mauro says, incredibly, the U.S. government does not have the authority to shut the camps down. “The big problem here is that his group is not listed as a foreign terrorist organization by the State Department,” he points out. “So the authorities don’t have the legal authority to go and shut these places down.”

   UMMMMM not “Christian” or “Jewish” camps. Go figure.

4. #304
   On February 15th, 2009 at 10:30 am, John Deaux said:

   On February 15th, 2009 at 12:50 am, Joy said:

   Hey, I also have a few friends who are Democrats…

   That’s it. You’re out of the club.

5. #305
   On February 15th, 2009 at 10:32 am, frontierguy said:

   I’m curious. Is anyone here friends with any Muslims?

   I met quite a few in the middle east, nice enough guys, but what disturbed me is that they do not understand how the United States can have laws that are not handed down from God. I tried to explain to one guy that our laws are written to protect people from harm. He did not understand that, he kept saying that if you just follow what is written in the Quran, everything is good. Everyone I met also wants to eventually go to Europe or the United States. By all accounts it seems to me that Muslims feel that the only laws they must obey are their religious ones and it is okay to ignore everyone else’s. That is a dangerous clash of culture, one that is already on display in Europe and it seems will become more and more commonplace here as well.

   Most of the Muslims I have met here in the United States are ones who have converted, most of them from stays in prison. Ramadan is usually their motive, our prisons supplying feasts to them after the fast. The feast is comprised of very rich, expensive foods. Since these prisoners are many times violent in nature, other then getting a tax payer funded feast, the violent nature of Islam appeals to them.

   I don’t believe that all Muslims are bad people, but it seems to me that the ones I have met are not tolerant to handle my opinions or critique over their religion. I can’t be friends with someone who I would have to a$$ kiss so as not to offend them. If there are Muslims out there who can debate without getting their panties twisted up their cracks, i could be a good friend to them. So all of you defender of the downtrodden, your Muslim friends, do you walk on eggshells with them? Do you tell them that other religions are worse than theirs so that you and he can “feel good” about yourselves? My best friends are all people who I can tell what is right and wrong about and they can tell me when i am right and wrong. Muslims rarely fall into that category.

6. #306
   On February 15th, 2009 at 10:39 am, On-my-soap-box said:

   On February 15th, 2009 at 10:30 am, John Deaux said:

   On February 15th, 2009 at 12:50 am, Joy said:

   Hey, I also have a few friends who are Democrats…

   That’s it. You’re out of the club.

   That’s pretty harsh… LOL

   .oO(I think my mom was a Dem)

7. #307
   On February 15th, 2009 at 10:50 am, DBNinKY said:

   Oh dear! I thought only Republicans like that mean old GW Bush risked America’s standing and reputation in the world – will insulting our allies and behaving rudely win us friends?

8. #308
   On February 15th, 2009 at 10:53 am, DBNinKY said:

   Oops! Didn’t see the NB link already in the sidebar – good read on Obama’s hypocrisy all the same!

9. #309
   On February 15th, 2009 at 11:00 am, bluesoc said:

   Maybe its’ just me, but I find Churchill’s opinions a tad more relevant that Bluesoc’s, even if they are over a century older.

   Like this one?

   I do not admit that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race, has come in and taken their place.

10. #310
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:07 am, DBNinKY said:

    I do not admit that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race, has come in and taken their place.

    This statement was made within the context of the effective use of America’s and Australia’s natural resources-/lands to the greater benefit of all; other than the non-pc language, there is nothing there to indicate explicit discriminatory exclusion of either mentioned race.

11. #311
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:13 am, bluesoc said:

    This statement was made within the context of the effective use of America’s and Australia’s natural resources-/lands to the greater benefit of all; other than the non-pc language, there is nothing there to indicate explicit discriminatory exclusion of either mentioned race.

    The language isn’t “non-pC.” It’s strait up racist. A higher grade race?

12. #312
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:17 am, frontierguy said:

    I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race, has come in and taken their place.

    You sure you meant to post that? It sounds like he was saying that the stronger race had a right to the land. Like DBN said, the stronger more worldly race put the land to better use. That is what it sounds like he is saying. And, I think this was said before the PCification of the west. Something no one would dare say today, especially a politician.

13. #313
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:18 am, frontierguy said:

    Oh, okay, you meant to post it as racist.

14. #314
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:19 am, right4life said:

    The language isn’t “non-pC.” It’s strait up racist. A higher grade race?

    perhaps churchill was a dawinist!

    “At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.”

15. #315
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:20 am, bluesoc said:

    It sounds like he was saying that the stronger race had a right to the land. Like DBN said, the stronger more worldly race put the land to better use. That is what it sounds like he is saying. And, I think this was said before the PCification of the west. Something no one would dare say today, especially a politician.

    You don’t see anything wrong with that?

16. #316
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:24 am, bluesoc said:

    The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla

    Yikes

17. #317
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:27 am, On-my-soap-box said:

    Alas, if Churchill could have grown up in Harlem like Slick did…

    Blue(stained)soc just condemned over 1/2 of our Presidents (including Abe). Oh, and all of Islam.

18. #318
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:28 am, bluesoc said:

    Blue(stained)soc just condemned over 1/2 of our Presidents (including Abe). Oh, and all of Islam.

    what?

19. #319
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:36 am, frontierguy said:

    I think that you have been propagandized to the point that you cannot see past the trees. The Democrats have done more damage to minority communities than anyone. They have convinced people of color that they can never achieve success in this country and there is no need to try through social and walfare programs designed to keep them slaves to voting to promote their own walfare, in a sense always for democrats. Just because politicians change the words around so that it is PC, they are basically doing the same thing as what Churchill said. If it wasn’t for the superior race you people would be nowhere, unable to take care of yourselves.

    I live in the United States, there is nothing I can do about that. If you want, you are welcome to pack up everything in your home, take it to a (insert minority group here) neighborhood and pass it out as your own reparations. I prefer to treat people as strong and independent and certainly able to take care of themselves, without my intervention or care. I don’t kiss their a$$, which in fact ticks me off when people do it to me. But, be my guest, it is a free country (well for now).

20. #320
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:42 am, On-my-soap-box said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:13 am, bluesoc said:

    The language isn’t “non-pC.” It’s strait up racist. A higher grade race?

    Your concern is racisim?

    I repeat:

    Blue(stained)soc just condemned over 1/2 of our Presidents (including Abe). Oh, and all of Islam.

21. #321
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:42 am, bluesoc said:

    The Democrats have done more damage to minority communities than anyone. They have convinced people of color that they can never achieve success in this country and there is no need to try through social and walfare programs designed to keep them slaves to voting to promote their own walfare, in a sense always for democrats. Just because politicians change the words around so that it is PC, they are basically doing the same thing as what Churchill said. If it wasn’t for the superior race you people would be nowhere, unable to take care of yourselves.

    That’s an interesting take on it. I wouldn’t exactly equate it to “Superior races may take the land of inferior races,” but maybe I have been indoctrinated.

22. #322
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:45 am, frontierguy said:

    maybe I have been indoctrinated.

    You most certainly have.

23. #323
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:46 am, bluesoc said:

    Your concern is racisim?

    I repeat:

    Blue(stained)soc just condemned over 1/2 of our Presidents (including Abe). Oh, and all of Islam.

    I still don’t quite understand what you’re getting at.

    However, Churchill was pretty clearly racist. I think that discredits his opinion of Muslims (which FilmLadd quoted earlier). That’s all.

24. #324
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:49 am, frontierguy said:

    “Superior races may take the land of inferior races,”

    And it is the same, the act of not being wrong, Churchill was saying that the superior race has brought the inferior race to a modernized way of living. In other words, the superior race did them a favor. The democrats are telling the minorities, we are doing you a favor. It is the same thing.

25. #325
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:51 am, DBNinKY said:

    The language isn’t “non-pC.” It’s strait up racist. A higher grade race?

    Chap…er…bluesoc, you’re diverting from the point of the thread, that a woman lost her life to her husband on American soil and in a manner conforming with her husband’s faith, but I’ll just add that considering slavery was still tolerated in much of the third world at the time, Churchill’s statement is relatively mild and nullified by the fact he acted valiantly to keep the West free from Nazi and Soviet rule.

26. #326
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:54 am, frontierguy said:

    Bluesoc is trying to go the RACIST route now to protect his “feelings” about Islam. You know, the whole racist argument that is supposed to make people stop debating and run away.

27. #327
    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:55 am, bluesoc said:

    Churchill was saying that the superior race has brought the inferior race to a modernized way of living. In other words, the superior race did them a favor. The democrats are telling the minorities, we are doing you a favor. It is the same thing.

    I still don’t think you can equate taking land with giving welfare. Especially because the later involves a choice and the former does not. I think the “favor” analogy is a bit thin.

28. #328
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:00 pm, bluesoc said:

    Chap…er…bluesoc, you’re diverting from the point of the thread, that a woman lost her life to her husband on American soil and in a manner conforming with her husband’s faith

    I’ve already posted this, but I’ve yet to find anything in the Koran or Sharia that says beheading is the proper method of killing for adultery or divorce. He does not seem to have been following Muslim law very closely.

    Also, as I stated earlier, my post was in response to FilmLadd using a Churchill quote that was critical of Muslims. Personally, I don’t think his opinion counts for much, since he was pretty clearly a racist.

29. #329
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:05 pm, MacEamonn said:

    “Superior races may take the land of inferior races,”

    should probably read: Technologically or militarily superior people have always taken the land of technologically or militarily inferior peoples. It’s been going on since the dawn of man!

30. #330
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:07 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:46 am, bluesoc said:

    I still don’t quite understand what you’re getting at.

    Your concern is racisim?

    However, Churchill was pretty clearly racist. I think that discredits his opinion of Muslims (which FilmLadd quoted earlier). That’s all.

    Substitute 1/2 of our Presidents (including Abe) because they said some racist remarks – like Churchill. Thoams Jefferson read the Quran to know his enemy – Islam. Oops, let’s not let that fact get in the way.

    If you do not think Islam is racist – you are just being an idiot.

    Was that simple enough for you lgm light?

    The Democrats have done more damage to minority communities than anyone.

    Anybody who does not believe this statement needs to read THIS BOOK.

31. #331
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:07 pm, DBNinKY said:

    He does not seem to have been following Muslim law very closely.

    But he did seem to be following a Muslim-/Arab proclivity, as evidenced by the recent actions of Islam adherents.

32. #332
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:09 pm, frontierguy said:

    And we have already posted that beheadings are more particular in Muslim cultures and that he seems to have killed her as more than just a jealous husband and that the media is not going to make waves.

    you can go find one of your Muslim friends, give him a big hug and tell him how other religions are worse than Islam and you can feel good about yourself. Good luck with it.

33. #333
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:10 pm, bluesoc said:

    Technologically or militarily superior people have always taken the land of technologically or militarily inferior peoples. It’s been going on since the dawn of man!

    Just because something has happened in the past, does not make it right. He implied that it was ok.

34. #334
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:11 pm, bluesoc said:

    But he did seem to be following a Muslim-/Arab proclivity, as evidenced by the recent actions of Islam adherents.

    Then it would seem to be more of a cultural thing rather than strictly religious.

35. #335
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:15 pm, bluesoc said:

    Substitute 1/2 of our Presidents (including Abe) because they said some racist remarks – like Churchill. Thoams Jefferson read the Quran to know his enemy – Islam. Oops, let’s not let that fact get in the way.

    If you do not think Islam is racist – you are just being an idiot.

    That was much clearer, thank you.Now I realize that you misunderstood my statements (perhaps I was unclear).

    I was not discrediting everything Churchill did or said. Simply that which applies to Muslims.

36. #336
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:23 pm, av8tr said:

    Hey soc, I’m sure it was just an oversight, but how about those specifics on all that Christian celebrating in the USA about Serbs committing mass murder?

37. #337
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:24 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:15 pm, bluesoc said:

    That was much clearer, thank you.Now I realize that you misunderstood my statements (perhaps I was unclear).

    I was not discrediting everything Churchill did or said. Simply that which applies to Muslims.

    So when do you condemn racism by Muslims? Show me a Jewish synagogue in Iran or a Christian church for that matter. Show me where Christians/Jews behead Muslims. The fact of the matter concerning this thread is a Muslim man beheaded his wife in the USA (not the first time and will not be the last) and that should end all discussion on Churchill’s racism.

38. #338
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:24 pm, bluesoc said:

    but how about those specifics on all that Christian celebrating in the USA about Serbs committing mass murder?

    I didn’t post that.

39. #339
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:25 pm, frontierguy said:

    Then it would seem to be more of a cultural thing rather than strictly religious.

    And the difference then is? Your argument is insane. Culture or religion, chopping off heads is incompatible with this country’s culture and its intentions.

40. #340
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:28 pm, torabora said:

    I think it is fairly apparent that bluesoc will soon be an official MM minder, sent by ACORN, to enforce duh1′s duhrectives.

    All hail Lord Obama!

41. #341
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:37 pm, sea_monkey said:

    As a member of the Buffalo community it saddens me that you would post this story but nothing about crash of flight 3407

42. #342
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:39 pm, bluesoc said:

    And the difference then is? Your argument is insane. Culture or religion, chopping off heads is incompatible with this country’s culture and its intentions.

    You’re absolutely right that its incompatible with American culture. I think ALL Americans would agree with that.

    The difference is important because it means that his particular culture is incompatible with being American, NOT Islam in general.

43. #343
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:42 pm, bluesoc said:

    I think it is fairly apparent that bluesoc will soon be an official MM minder, sent by ACORN, to enforce duh1’s duhrectives.

    I have actually had some contact with ACORN. I recently moved and needed to change my voting address. There were tons of ACORN volunteers downtown, so I changed my address with one of them. It was quite convenient actually.

44. #344
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:50 pm, av8tr said:

    I know you didn’t post that. But you made the claim:

    Correction: there were Muslims in the US who celebrated 9/11. Also there were Christians in the US who celebrated Christian massacres of Bosnians not long ago.

    To which I asked:

    Really? Which ones specifically?

    I just thought, after such a claim, that you would be able to back it up with documentation. Someone else also asked the same thing.

45. #345
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:51 pm, frontierguy said:

    The difference is important because it means that his particular culture is incompatible with being American, NOT Islam in general.

    Islam is their culture and politics. See #304. I believe that he beheaded her because of his religion. If by chance he was crazy like the guy who killed his son, I think we have a right to know. I think the media should seek to find out and report facts, not what they want people to think. We have a right to tell people who come to this country, you have the right to whatever religion you want to practice, however you do not have the right to break our laws in its observance. This needs to be made an example of.

46. #346
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:52 pm, DBNinKY said:

    “…cultural…rather than…religious.”

    It’s hard to see any cleavage between the two; for too many of its followers, Islam is over-powering and all inclusive.

47. #347
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:53 pm, bluesoc said:

    Correction: there were Muslims in the US who celebrated 9/11. Also there were Christians in the US who celebrated Christian massacres of Bosnians not long ago.

    I didn’t post that or make any such claim.

48. #348
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:53 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    In Islam there is not separation of church and anything. Their belief system is ALL. Again the idea that Islam is peaceful and wants to co-exist in the same way as the Christian faith and world view, folks who understand the separation of church and state (remembering the founders of this country who wrote about separation were mostly men/women of faith) is a lie. Islam is ALL.

    Also remembering that while our founders did not want a government enforced religion, they at the same time did not endorse keeping personal faith out of government. Quite the opposite in fact. Our founders depended on their faith and generally Christian world view to create the documents and minset that formed this country.

    Islam can not tolerate a Christian world view and is openly hostile towards it and to folks who hold it.

    Any attempt to equate Islam with “other” religions is absurd.

49. #349
    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:55 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 12:42 pm, bluesoc said:
    I think it is fairly apparent that bluesoc will soon be an official MM minder, sent by ACORN, to enforce duh1’s duhrectives.
    I have actually had some contact with ACORN. I recently moved and needed to change my voting address. There were tons of ACORN volunteers downtown, so I changed my address with one of them. It was quite convenient actually.

    To acquiesce is always easy. So, not only did I shut you down with my last post, now you show us why you chose blue. You can never be taken seriously – ever.

50. #350
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:01 pm, bluesoc said:

    Islam is their culture and politics. See #304. I believe that he beheaded her because of his religion

    You may believe that, but so far, I don’t really see any evidence. Like I stated before, there is nothing in the Koran or Sharia law that calls for a beheading for adultery or divorce.

    This needs to be made an example of.

    He has been charged with murder.

51. #351
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:04 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:01 pm, bluesoc said:
    but so far, I don’t really see any evidence. Like I stated before, there is nothing in the Koran or Sharia law that calls for a beheading for adultery or divorce.

    Yep, their culture frowns upon honor killings. Keep going. Your condemnation is forthcoming – right?

52. #352
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:05 pm, bluesoc said:

    In Islam there is not separation of church and anything. Their belief system is ALL. Again the idea that Islam is peaceful and wants to co-exist in the same way as the Christian faith and world view, folks who understand the separation of church and state (remembering the founders of this country who wrote about separation were mostly men/women of faith) is a lie. Islam is ALL.

    I don’t really think there is a separation of Church and anything in Christianity either. The separation of Church and State by the founders was more of a political move than a religious one.

    I think it’s possible to have such separation in Muslim countries as well. Turkey is a secular nation. They definitely have their problems, but I think it’s an example of how Islam does not need to be ALL.

53. #353
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:06 pm, bluesoc said:

    Yep, their culture frowns upon honor killings. Keep going. Your condemnation is forthcoming – right?

    I don’t believe I said anything about culture frowning on honor killings.

54. #354
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:07 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    “Also there were Christians in the US who celebrated Christian massacres of Bosnians not long ago.”

    Who ever posted that, that is absurd. We have pictures and tv broadcast of Muslims celebrating 9/11. Please point me to any such evidence of Christians doing likewise over Bosnia?

55. #355
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:09 pm, av8tr said:

    My bad – sorry soc. It was lgm.

56. #356
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:09 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    “The separation of Church and State by the founders was more of a political move than a religious one.”

    Then you need to re-read your history of the Europe most of our founders came from.

    The separation was totally religious. It was because they wanted to be free to practice their own religious choices and not be forced into one religion.

57. #357
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:09 pm, Dave Turson said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:00 am, bluesoc said:

    Maybe its’ just me, but I find Churchill’s opinions a tad more relevant that Bluesoc’s, even if they are over a century older.

    Like this one?
    I do not admit that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race, has come in and taken their place.

    Churchill wrote and spoke at such great length, it is easy to twist some of his words today.
    But quoting him out of context, and without ellipses when words are left out, is a no-no.
    Here is the full quote, in context:

    “I do not admit that the dog in the manger has the final right to the manger, even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit, for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to those people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race, or, at any rate, a more worldly-wise race, to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.”

    On February 15th, 2009 at 11:13 am, bluesoc said:

    This statement was made within the context of the effective use of America’s and Australia’s natural resources-/lands to the greater benefit of all; other than the non-pc language, there is nothing there to indicate explicit discriminatory exclusion of either mentioned race.

    The language isn’t “non-pC.” It’s strait up racist. A higher grade race?

    This was not a racist statement–by “race” he meant a nation in a social construct that was more advanced at that point in time. Did Indian tribes war on other tribes, or African tribes on other tribes? It’s an old game–if you can’t defeat the message attack the messenger.

58. #358
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:11 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    Anyone who wants to equate a Christian world view with an Islamic world view simply needs to go live in a country that is an Islamic world view country. Spend some time there, and then get back to us. Please, find out for yourselves. I beg you. I dare you. I’ll miss you when you don’t come back.

59. #359
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:11 pm, bluesoc said:

    My bad – sorry soc. It was lgm.

    No worries.

60. #360
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:14 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    Ah the noble savage myth lives on…..

61. #361
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:14 pm, frontierguy said:

    Wow, 2nd degree murder. The fact that she was decapitated, the first slash of the knife may have been anger and was not intentional to kill, after that, when the head comes off, he intended to kill her, sounds like 1st degree to me. 2nd degree is not an example.

62. #362
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:19 pm, bluesoc said:

    I’d like to make my point about the difference between religion and culture a little clearer.

    I think there is a difference between saying that a religion is fundamentally flawed and saying that a culture’s interpretation of a religion in flawed. A culture can be changed and adapted, a religion cannot (although it can be interpreted differently). If a religion is fundamentally violent, it probably cannot coexist with the west. If, on the other hand, a culture’s interpretation of a religion is violent, the culture can be changed and adapted.

63. #363
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:20 pm, bluesoc said:

    Ah the noble savage myth lives on…..

    Was that directed at me?

64. #364
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:28 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    Do you believe the savage is noble and if they would have been left alone by white men, the world and they would be okay?

65. #365
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:30 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:06 pm, bluesoc said:
    Yep, their culture frowns upon honor killings. Keep going. Your condemnation is forthcoming – right?
    I don’t believe I said anything about culture frowning on honor killings.

    …and their culture is based on? The Bible? The teaching of Jesus? Equality for all? Forget about “all”. How about equality for women? I assume you have a real problem with “equality for women”? What does the Quran say about the killing of infidels, you know, you and me?

    Give us all a break.

66. #366
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:32 pm, bluesoc said:

    Do you believe the savage is noble and if they would have been left alone by white men, the world and they would be okay?

    I don’t really care to get into that discussion because it is WAY off topic. However, I do not believe anything in my previous comments would have suggested that I believe that.

67. #367
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:38 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:19 pm, bluesoc said:
    If, on the other hand, a culture’s interpretation of a religion is violent, the culture can be changed and adapted.

    Part II:

    Yes, and that culture can become more extreme and violent. But why ignore history and facts?

68. #368
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:40 pm, bluesoc said:

    and their culture is based on? The Bible? The teaching of Jesus? Equality for all? Forget about “all”. How about equality for women? I assume you have a real problem with “equality for women”? What does the Quran say about the killing of infidels, you know, you and me?

    Give us all a break

    A very strict interpretation of the Bible could lead to similar results (for Jews and Christians). However, our culture obviously does not interpret the Bible in such a way. Certain Muslim countries have a very strict interpretation of the Koran that leads to some absolutely awful and brutal stuff. I do not justify or excuse such behavior. However, it is possible to interpret the Koran in a way that is more compatible with American values and culture. Rather than focusing on the problems with Islam as a religion, we should focus on the problems with certain cultural interpretations of Islam.

69. #369
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:44 pm, bluesoc said:

    Unfortunately I need to get some work done today, so I won’t be responding to any posts for quite a while.

70. #370
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:56 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    Unfortunately I need to get some work done today, so I won’t be responding to any posts for quite a while.

    There’s a relief.

71. #371
    On February 15th, 2009 at 1:58 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    So almost 400 posts later, we are to believe that since Churchill was a racist it’s ok to cut your wife’s head off. (I skipped a few posts, did I miss anything substantial?)

72. #372
    On February 15th, 2009 at 2:10 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

    AG,

    Great summary.

    Blue(stained)soc,

    So, how many more thousands of years before Islam catches up with the rest of us since “our” culture figured out long ago it is not a good thing to have honor killings or kill infidels?

    You’re not fooling anybody. You are going to continue to read these and not respond for fear of looking more idioticer than you already have.

73. #373
    On February 15th, 2009 at 2:11 pm, Trollman said:

    bluesoc said:

    Like I stated before, there is nothing in the Koran or Sharia law that calls for a beheading for adultery or divorce.

    You do realize that the Koran is not the only authoritative source for Islam?

    Since the Koran is insufficient by itself, Muslims also adhere to the Hadiths – traditions from the life of Muhammad. These Hadiths serve as a supplement to the Koran. Muhammad is held by Muslims to be the best person who ever lived. His life is to be imitated in all things. The bad part is, Muhammad did a lot of bad things – like having even women assassinated. They weren’t any physical threat to Muhammad or Islam, they had no real power. Their offense was simply insulting Muhammad.

    Now if Muhammad had people butchered for insulting him, then someone who takes the example of Muhammad seriously is prone to do exactly what?

    bluesoc said:

    I don’t really think there is a separation of Church and anything in Christianity either. The separation of Church and State by the founders was more of a political move than a religious one.

    Actually, that principle is found within the Bible.

    In Judaism, the priests were from the tribe of Levi, and the kings were from the tribe of Judah, so you had an early form of separation of church and state.

    In Christianity, the separation is even more pronounced, and is summed up in Jesus’ profound response “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.”

    Christianity is a kingdom, but not a political kingdom. Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world, which is why He forbade His followers to wage war in the name of Christianity.

    Contrast this with the fact that Muhammad rode into Mecca as a conqueror.

74. #374
    On February 15th, 2009 at 4:00 pm, torabora said:

    bluesoc…render unto God that which is God’s and render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.

    You’re pretty stupid, are you not? Or is it that you really are ignorant, unschooled, don’t know nuttin’? What is it?

    Did you get knocked down for your lunch money and hit your head? Fell off your bike and hit your head? Tripped on your shoelace and….

75. #375
    On February 15th, 2009 at 5:14 pm, L.N. Smithee said:

    FilmLadd wrote:
    

    Winston Churchill, “The River War”, 1899
    
    Maybe its’ just me, but I find Churchill’s opinions a tad more relevant that Bluesoc’s, even if they are over a century older.

    Thanks for the quotes — just as relevant in the pre-petroleum Middle East as today.

    Especially striking is Churchill’s observation that “were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science – the science against which it had vainly struggled – the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.” It reminded me of the controversy about Salma Hayek breastfeeding an infant in Sierra Leone while she was on a UN mission. That whole situation came about because Sierra Leone babies die of tetanus and malnourishment because of two outrageous traditional practices there: Tetanus occurs because postnatal umbilical cords are packed with cow dung and/or mud; Breastfeeding is discouraged by men there because they don’t have intercourse while a mother is nursing.

    It would not be fair to hang this aspect of the tragedy of life in Sierra Leone on Islam, but facts are — according to all sources I searched — Sierra Leone is 60% Muslim, 30% indigenous/tribal religion, and 10% Christian.

76. #376
    On February 15th, 2009 at 5:48 pm, right4life said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 2:11 pm, Trollman said

    very good points..

    Contrast this with the fact that Muhammad rode into Mecca as a conqueror.

    was it on a white horse?? bet the MAHDI, who will soon raise his wounded head, will be on a white horse…

77. #377
    On February 15th, 2009 at 6:18 pm, garydt said:

    Blue Scociety,,, Where are all these muslims protesting these honor killings at? Where are all these moderates protesting these atrocities? Ive been scanning all the news agencies and the net and can’t find any. Maybe I am not a very good at finding them. I had no trouble with these folks protesting the Israelies for trying to contain the rocket shooters from the Gaza. That was very easy to find. The Christians that you post who committ murders, rape etc are probaby not truely born again. The Holy Spirit does not work this way and Jesus Himself said ” many will say on that day didn’t we do great things in your name and He will resond I never knew you. The thing about being a Christian is that you have a personal relationship with Christ and its not like belonging to a lodge at all. I will still go and look for all the good muslims protesting the grisley murders that are done by their fellow Muslim radical brothers and sisters.

78. #378
    On February 15th, 2009 at 6:25 pm, granite said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 6:18 pm, garydt said:

    Gee, you just might find them…right after you discover the secretive, elusive unicorn herds.

79. #379
    On February 15th, 2009 at 7:49 pm, chapoutier said:

    So, how many more thousands of years before Islam catches up with the rest of us since “our” culture figured out long ago it is not a good thing to have honor killings or kill infidels?

    Well, Islam was established about 600 years after Christianity. The Spanish Inquisition, which I would say definitely condoned killing infidels, officially ended in 1834, but really died out around 1700, which was 309 years ago, so I guess we owe the Muslims another 291 years or so before we have a right to complain?

80. #380
    On February 15th, 2009 at 7:56 pm, Jet Jaguar said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 7:49 pm, chapoutier said:

    Well, Islam was established about 600 years after Christianity. The Spanish Inquisition, which I would say definitely condoned killing infidels, officially ended in 1834, but really died out around 1700, which was 309 years ago, so I guess we owe the Muslims another 291 years or so before we have a right to complain?

    Chap,
    Wait until the Judgement. Jesus’ll kill then like no one ever has before. Don’t want this to happen but it must.

81. #381
    On February 15th, 2009 at 8:01 pm, chapoutier said:

    Just to avoid any confusion, #379 was a sarcastic comment.

    But, in response to Jet, I do not fear Jesus killing me. Cirrhosis will have taken me long before he can get his hands on me.

82. #382
    On February 15th, 2009 at 8:23 pm, right4life said:

    Spanish Inquisition, which I would say definitely condoned killing infidels, officially ended in 1834, but really died out around 1700, which was 309 years ago, so I guess we owe the Muslims another 291 years or so before we have a right to complain?

    oh please the SPANISH INQUISITION…the BOOGEY MAN is gonna get ya…I get SO tired of the atheists and muslim apologists bringing this up…the inquisition killed all of what 2,000 people?? compared to the hundreds of millions of people the muslims slaughtered and enslaved over the millenia??

    its laughable.

    But, in response to Jet, I do not fear Jesus killing me. Cirrhosis will have taken me long before he can get his hands on me.

    you should fear what He may do to you after you are dead…

83. #383
    On February 15th, 2009 at 8:33 pm, Jet Jaguar said:

    On February 15th, 2009 at 8:01 pm, chapoutier said:

    …Cirrhosis will have taken me long before he can get his hands on me

    .

    Wow, I hope the Judgment isn’t that close! …and I pray for your liver to hold up.

84. #384
    On February 15th, 2009 at 8:38 pm, chapoutier said:

    oh please the SPANISH INQUISITION…the BOOGEY MAN is gonna get ya…I get SO tired of the atheists and muslim apologists bringing this up…the inquisition killed all of what 2,000 people?? compared to the hundreds of millions of people the muslims slaughtered and enslaved over the millenia??

    its laughable.

    I know you are functionally retarded, so I will excuse the fact that you missed my next post.

    you should fear what He may do to you after you are dead…

    Ooops. I guess you did see that post. So now I don’t know how to excuse you. But in response: I stopped being afraid of boogey men (God, Spanish Inquisition or otherwise) around the age of 8.

85. #385
    On February 15th, 2009 at 9:05 pm, Trollman said:

    chapoutier said:

    I stopped being afraid of boogey men (God, Spanish Inquisition or otherwise) around the age of 8.

    Which confirms my suspicion that your decision not to believe in God is based upon an immature, uninformed mindset.

86. #386
    On February 15th, 2009 at 9:20 pm, chapoutier said:

    Which confirms my suspicion that your decision not to believe in God is based upon an immature, uninformed mindset.

    This is laughable due to the fact that most people are indoctrinated into the religion they ascribe to long before they are capable of even formulating rational thought. Seriously. How many here actually actually seriously gave any consideration to any other religion other than the one that they happened to be born into? And I am not talking Baptist v. Methodist or even Catholic v. Protestant.

    But in any case, my “childish” conclusion has been confirmed by many years of actual observation and study.

    But you keep on believing whatever you want, brother.

87. #387
    On February 15th, 2009 at 9:22 pm, MNUSMCDavid said:

    I don’t give a rat’s behind about Native American’s issues about the government’s treatment of them. Anyone who would ever do a study of the tribes would learn the treatment they gave their enemies…. the horror they did to the enemy tribes. Will you people ever learn about cultures…

88. #388
    On February 15th, 2009 at 9:33 pm, Trollman said:

    chapoutier said:

    But in any case, my “childish” conclusion has been confirmed by many years of actual observation and study.

    I have never personally met (whether in person, or through a discussion on the Internet) an atheist who claimed anything else. I don’t ever recall meeting an atheist that admitted “I haven’t really studied it in depth, I simply chose not to believe because it all just sounded silly to me.”

    This, despite the fact that virtually all (I can think of one exception, and he was an agnostic, not an atheist) that I have talked with were #1. ignorant of the best arguments for the existence of God (even though they insisted they had studied the matter in depth), & #2. had demonstrably faulty reasoning among their key points for supporting their atheism.

89. #389
    On February 15th, 2009 at 10:35 pm, frontierguy said:

    This is laughable due to the fact that most people are indoctrinated into the religion they ascribe to long before they are capable of even formulating rational thought.

    Like the Muslims? Even if you don’t believe in a God I think most smart people would want their neighbors indoctrinated in a religion that does not teach death to non-believers. That is what the Quran says no matter how much you try to make it not so.

90. #390
    On February 15th, 2009 at 10:57 pm, right4life said:

    I know you are functionally retarded, so I will excuse the fact that you missed my next post.

    I may be, but then what does that say about you, when I manage to make you look like the idiot you are regularly…not that you really need any help…

    I stopped being afraid of boogey men (God, Spanish Inquisition or otherwise) around the age of 8.

    thanks for confirming what fool you are.

    keep bending over for your racist hairygod darwin..lets see him save you…

    let me guess, you’re fat as well as stupid!

91. #391
    On February 15th, 2009 at 10:58 pm, right4life said:

    But in any case, my “childish” conclusion has been confirmed by many years of actual observation and study.

    this from someone who thinks evolution is the mechanism for evolution…

    such stupidity has to hurt…

92. #392
    On February 16th, 2009 at 12:43 am, FireBlogger said:

    I’m curious. Is anyone here friends with any Muslims?

    Yes, the man who bought my old home is Muslim. Hamid was ushered out of Iran at age 14 by his father and shipped to Austria to go to school.
    He runs a trucking company here in the US now.
    He is one of the most peaceful men I have ever met.
    One time he called me from the road in Wyoming. I asked him what he was hauling and he told me “dynamite”.

    I laughed out loud at the irony. An Iranian immigrant hauling dynamite coast to coast with no interference.

    Well before September 11 Hamid and a couple of his Iranian friends stopped over to see my new house and during our conversation he and his friends explained how they were convinced, as are all in Iran that the US would some day invade.
    I was shocked they thought this.

93. #393
    On February 16th, 2009 at 7:56 am, chapoutier said:

    I have never personally met (whether in person, or through a discussion on the Internet) an atheist who claimed anything else. I don’t ever recall meeting an atheist that admitted “I haven’t really studied it in depth, I simply chose not to believe because it all just sounded silly to me.”

    Likewise, I meet very few Christians who admit their religion is entirely dependent on the fact that their parents happened to be Christian.

94. #394
    On February 16th, 2009 at 7:59 am, chapoutier said:

    I may be, but then what does that say about you, when I manage to make you look like the idiot you are regularly…not that you really need any help…

    You’re right of course, darling. But how is that paper on carbon dating coming along? All these numbers confuse lummoxes like me so. I mean how can carbon dating definitively date something 50,000 years old when the earth is only 6,000? Is God just a big trickster?

95. #395
    On February 16th, 2009 at 8:25 am, John Deaux said:

    On February 16th, 2009 at 7:59 am, chapoutier said:
    Is God just a big trickster?

    Have you seen the platypus?

96. #396
    On February 16th, 2009 at 9:13 am, Trollman said:

    chapoutier said:

    I have never personally met (whether in person, or through a discussion on the Internet) an atheist who claimed anything else. I don’t ever recall meeting an atheist that admitted “I haven’t really studied it in depth, I simply chose not to believe because it all just sounded silly to me.”

    Likewise, I meet very few Christians who admit their religion is entirely dependent on the fact that their parents happened to be Christian.

    Come on chappy, surely you can do better than that!

    How does one prove that one’s personal bias didn’t play a role in forming one’s conclusions? Even if they did, that doesn’t prove their conclusions false. You say “You just believe in God because you were raised to believe in God.” In return, the Christian could say to you, “You choose to disbelieve in God because it frees you to be an immoral liberal.”

    What to do, what to do?

    That is why I prefer to stick to things that are more easily provable. If someone claims they really did their homework on a subject matter, it is a small thing to find out if they actually know what they are talking about, or if they are just blowing smoke.

97. #397
    On February 16th, 2009 at 9:25 am, norm1111 said:

    oh please the SPANISH INQUISITION…the BOOGEY MAN is gonna get ya…I get SO tired of the atheists and muslim apologists bringing this up…the inquisition killed all of what 2,000 people??

    Much worse than that…the lefties always call the NAZIs Christains and tout the atrocities performed by them. Yet they purposely ignore leftie facism..ie..Stalinism and the murder of 50 million people in the name of atheistic ideals.

    And radical Islam murders in one month nearly as many as the 300 years of the Spanish Inquisition..another glaring elimiation of reality by the empty headed, drug addled American left.

    Monthly Jihad Report
    January 2009 Jihad Attacks: 157
    Countries: 11
    Dead Bodies: 566
    Critically Injured: 846

    And as of today…Islam has carried out 12,474 murderous attacks since Sept. 11, 2001. If this chapoutier had any ethics or even the slightest interest in the truth, he could have found all this information in a couple of minutes. But, typical of the left, truth always gets in the way, so….uhh…ignore it and make up a nice strawman instead.

98. #398
    On February 16th, 2009 at 9:29 am, chapoutier said:

    You just believe in God because you were raised to believe in God.”

    No. I said one has a mighty strong predisposition toward the religion of one’s parents, not necessarily a generic belief in God.

    I just find it curious that the issue that many people seem to be the most certain about is one in which their opinion was formed mostly on the basis of chance. Had right4life been born the same in every way except to Hindu parents, methinks she would most likely not be Christian. Impossible to prove of course, but highly logical and probable.

99. #399
    On February 16th, 2009 at 9:31 am, right4life said:

    On February 16th, 2009 at 7:59 am, chapoutier

    with all that bending over for darwin, doesn’t it hurt to sit down?

100. #400
     On February 16th, 2009 at 9:32 am, right4life said:

     Had right4life been born the same in every way except to Hindu parents, methinks she would most likely not be Christian. Impossible to prove of course, but highly logical and probable.

     methinks you’ve got a ‘thang’ for me. keep dreaming gurl.