The Vatican’s smackdown of Pelosi
The Pope’s rebuke of pro-abortion Catholic Nancy Pelosi was diplomatically worded, of course.
But as transparent as Scotch tape.
Pelosi’s response?
Blink, blink. Blink.
***
More from Ed Morrissey:
Message from Benedict: Study more. And he sent another message as well — that those with higher positions have higher responsibilities not to formally cooperate with the sin of abortion. That message undoubtedly was intended not just for Pelosi but for the entire class of Catholic politicians who support abortion rights, like Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and Joe Biden, among others.
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Catholics who formally cooperate with abortion ipso facto are excommunicated. This means that Pelosi is, in fact, excommunicated currently; she did it to herself with her own voting record.
What the Magisterium needs to do is discipline the priests who give communion to such people, and that the Holy Father has a much freer hand on.
Personally, I think that Pelosi was just miffed because His Holiness said, ‘Nancy who?’
*I’m all for the Pope trying to set Nazi Pelosi straight on abortion, but the Catholic Church has no cred with me as they are strong advocates for illegal aliens and amnesty, which is on a par with the islamists and their sharia law as a means of destroying our Constitutional Republic.
*Abortion requires but one question of an individual:”Was your mother right in giving birth to you(answer that Katie Couric)?”;If the answer for you is yes, then it is yes for all.
bjc: Since the immigration issue is not non-negotiable, you can have many different points of view on it, and be Catholic.
I myself have the view that a country has the right to restrict immigration to those who wish to enrich that country. This is in keeping with Catholic doctrine because it is eminently arguable that no one can support an arbitrary number of people indefinitely, and also that virtue cannot be coerced.
Now, it is true that there are those who believe that illegal immigration is all right in the Church. However, I tend to see people with that view as also having incorrect views on non-negotiable issues, such as abortion.
Ulthwithian:The Catholic Church aids and abets criminality in that they strongly advocate for illegal aliens and their widespread lawbreaking; We are a nation of laws starting with the 1st amendment that allows for the Catholic Church; They can’t have it one way on abortion and another on an obvious illegal activity; They are both absolute truths to me and why I no longer attend.
If you disagree with the Catholic Church, bjc, that is your choice. However, you cannot state that the Church is inconsistent. People _within_ the Church may have differing opinions. EQ quite nicely summed up the point of the Church’s position. There are rights and responsibilities on both sides. I agree with you on what those rights and responsibilities are in the instance of illegal immigration. However, unless you can show a _doctrinal_ issue on illegal immigration, you cannot state unequivocally that one position is correct, and another is not.
(If you’re going to try, might I suggest starting with ‘Thou Shalt Not Steal’.)
Here is the link to Nancy Pelosi’s official statement about her audience with the Pope.
Hmmm…She doesn’t mention the Pope’s lesson about the dignity of human life.
Do you think we should believe Nancy Pelosi’s description of the meeting or the Pope’s description?
When will the citizens of San Francisco realize how often Nancy Pelosi distorts the truth?
The majority of the people in Pelosi’s district are just like her. They wouldn’t know the truth even if you smacked them in the head with it!!
For those of us who are not Catholic, the Pope is just another person. This particular guy just rehabilitated a guy who denies the Holocaust. He has a history of protecting sex offenders at the expense of more sex offense. He clearly is against abortion.
Being rebuked by the Pope for one’s position on abortion does not make one a bad person or refute one’s position on abortion. Pelosi, like Kennedy, Roberts, Kerry, and other high US officials, has a duty to put her personal views before those of the Pope.
When she is following her personal views that are polar opposite from the church, she shouldn’t portray herself as being a devout Catholic.
That’s about as bad as a jew supporting a candidate that doesn’t support Israel.
Pure ownage.
This particular guy just rehabilitated a guy who denies the Holocaust.
No, he removed the bonds of excommunication, which is a different thing. That means Williamson (the man you mention) has the opportunity to get his act together if he so chooses.
He has a history of protecting sex offenders at the expense of more sex offense.
Once he became Pope, he started really cracking down, now that he was in charge.
He clearly is against abortion.
He is upholding a teaching that has been in the Church for 2000 years (more on that when I address BJC).
Pelosi, like Kennedy, Roberts, Kerry, and other high US officials, has a duty to put her personal views before those of the Pope.
Let’s travel back in time about, say, 45 years. A Louisiana congressman, who is a Catholic and a segregationist, has an audience with the Pope. Should the Pope stay silent on the subject of racism and segregation, or rebuke the congressman for holding and enforcing views incompatible with his faith?
John Deaux said (#99):
(Not that it changes your main argument, and offered in a friendly way) It’s not the same. There is no Pope of Jewry. There are Head Rabbis, but they don’t agree and there is no rule saying a Jew has to follow them even if they would agree.
In fact, when the state of Israel was founded, the most orthodox Jews did not support it because it went against their belief that only the Messiah would create the new Jewish state in what now is Israel. This comes out in the very nice novel “The Chosen” by Chaim Potok (Two Jewish kids in New York City. The more religious one’s Dad is annoyed that the less religious one helps Israel.).
LGM ,,, I don’t care if all one hundred senators agreed with Nancy P on abortion it doesn’t do away with what the sin is. Takes lot of gall to fly over to Rome and meet with the Pope knowing you have sin in your heart or she has ears that can’t hear or eyes that can’t see on what the Bible says about these issues too. Nancy now is getting her reward now.
BJC said:
They can’t have it one way on abortion and another on an obvious illegal activity; They are both absolute truths to me and why I no longer attend.
“To me”. Therein lies the trouble.
Let’s look at the differences:
Abortion: Historical Christianity has condemned this from the beginning, first documented in a late 1st Century work called the Didache. This has always been a non-negotiable, even when the matter of ensoulment was still open to discussion.
Immigration: The Judeo-Christian teaching in and of itself is very clear: “The stranger who sojourns with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:34). The immigrant is to be welcomed. That being said, the immigrant also has the responsibility to abide by the country’s lawa: “There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you.” (Exodus 12:49). How this is applied can vary under the circumstances, and is a matter of prudence. Do I agree that some bishops interpret this teaching in an imprudent manner, and violate just laws in doing so? Yes. On the other hand, if the laws concerning immigration are found to be unjust, then they ought to be broken, for an unjust law is no law at all.
I think the lovely and knowledgeable English_queen summed things up nicely in the earlier part of this discussion.
In sum: Abortion is and has always been a non-negotiable. Immigration is something that may be regulated depending on circumstances of the time.
If that’s the case, then she has a duty not to participate in and receive the Eucharist of a faith which her “personal views” clearly contradict.
As Prince Consort said, the Pope would not reasonably keep silent if a racist Congressman visited the Vatican, would he? Should he? No.
The Pope’s job is to keep united the Catholic Church and to direct the faithful in matters of morals, theology, and natural law – all three of which are incompatible with abortion. Of course, having the gift of free will means Pelosi – or any other Catholic – is free not to follow the faith.
But then the honest thing to do is leave. The Episcopal Church would welcome them with open arms.
And our current president believes he can dialogue with people who celebrate the Holocaust, and use diplomacy with people who want to wipe Israel off the map. It’s ironic that many liberals think we can rehabilitate terrorists or sexual offenders or violent criminals, but hold no sympathy for a religious person who holds asinine views.
It seems as if the requirement is the Pope excommunicate people they don’t like, but turn a blind eye to people they do.
Pope Benedict lifted the bonds of excommunication on the SSPX bishops for a violation of canon law, namely that bishops – including Williamson – were ordained without the consent and approval of the Vatican. This lifting of excommunication had nothing to do with Williamson’s personal views on anything, but reuniting in full communion with Rome a traditionalist group of Catholics.
As is, I repeat, one of the Pope’s jobs.
If you don’t like the Catholic faith… leave it…. and just shut up. I’m tired of the anti-Catholic rhetoric… just shut up and go away.
AMEN!!!!
Nice that even Nancy has to bow to someone else, much as she hates too.