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	<title>Comments on: Will the legality of the Punish Mark Sanford Amendment be tested?</title>
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	<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/</link>
	<description>news and commentary from a conservative perspective</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:18:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Palin acepta rechaza parte del Plan de Est&#237;mulo federal para Alaska &#171; Sarah Palin en Español</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-654874</link>
		<dc:creator>Palin acepta rechaza parte del Plan de Est&#237;mulo federal para Alaska &#171; Sarah Palin en Español</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-654874</guid>
		<description>[...] la ARRA –o Ley de Expolio Intergeneracional entre los conservadores- incluyó dos provisiones que Michelle Malkin llamó las “Enmiendas de Castigo a Sanford”, o directamente las “Enmiendas Sanford”. Dichas enmiendas dicen lo siguiente: SEC. 1607. (a) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] la ARRA –o Ley de Expolio Intergeneracional entre los conservadores- incluyó dos provisiones que Michelle Malkin llamó las “Enmiendas de Castigo a Sanford”, o directamente las “Enmiendas Sanford”. Dichas enmiendas dicen lo siguiente: SEC. 1607. (a) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: If Only Every State Was As Prepared As Alaska &#124; Caffeinated Thoughts</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-627816</link>
		<dc:creator>If Only Every State Was As Prepared As Alaska &#124; Caffeinated Thoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 23:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-627816</guid>
		<description>[...] mandated social programs that will need to be footed by states later.&#160; This provision&#8217;s legality is sure to be tested as some fiscally conservative governors may not take this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] mandated social programs that will need to be footed by states later.&nbsp; This provision&#8217;s legality is sure to be tested as some fiscally conservative governors may not take this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hot Air &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Heart-ache: Sanford probably will accept stimulus money</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-627496</link>
		<dc:creator>Hot Air &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Heart-ache: Sanford probably will accept stimulus money</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-627496</guid>
		<description>[...] the House Democrats, there&#8217;s a third option beside taking the money and rejecting it: Per the Sanford Amendment, he could have turned down the cash in the expectation that the state legislature would override [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the House Democrats, there&#8217;s a third option beside taking the money and rejecting it: Per the Sanford Amendment, he could have turned down the cash in the expectation that the state legislature would override [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ITookTheRedPill</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-627408</link>
		<dc:creator>ITookTheRedPill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-627408</guid>
		<description>Obama admits (on the fight the smears page) that he was born a British citizen.

At &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;best&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;, he was a dual citizen (British and USA), but he was born a &quot;natural born citizen&quot; of Great Britain, not a &quot;natural born citizen&quot; of the United States.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama admits (on the fight the smears page) that he was born a British citizen.</p>
<p>At <em><strong>best</strong></em>, he was a dual citizen (British and USA), but he was born a &#8220;natural born citizen&#8221; of Great Britain, not a &#8220;natural born citizen&#8221; of the United States.</p>
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		<title>By: vargas</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-627194</link>
		<dc:creator>vargas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-627194</guid>
		<description>Yes, there is a difference. But read what you said, and so strongly capitalized:

&lt;blockquote&gt;By the law of nature alone, which the founders of our country studied and followed, Obama was born a British citizen, and the place of birth produces no change in this particular. 

I.E., Obama was born a British citizen EVEN IF HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, you were not talking about natural born citizen in your post. Try to keep your terms straight if you&#039;re going to be so insistent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, there is a difference. But read what you said, and so strongly capitalized:</p>
<blockquote><p>By the law of nature alone, which the founders of our country studied and followed, Obama was born a British citizen, and the place of birth produces no change in this particular. </p>
<p>I.E., Obama was born a British citizen EVEN IF HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII.</p></blockquote>
<p>So, you were not talking about natural born citizen in your post. Try to keep your terms straight if you&#8217;re going to be so insistent.</p>
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		<title>By: ITookTheRedPill</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-627112</link>
		<dc:creator>ITookTheRedPill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-627112</guid>
		<description>Sorry, vargas, it is you who are wrong.  

There is a difference between &quot;citizen&quot; and &quot;Natural Born Citizen&quot;, as clearly evidenced by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A2Sec1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Article II, Section 1&lt;/a&gt; of the United States Constitution:

&lt;blockquote&gt;No person except a &lt;strong&gt;natural born Citizen&lt;/strong&gt;, &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;or&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; a &lt;strong&gt;Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution&lt;/strong&gt;, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Notice that &quot;&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;or&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&quot;?  

&quot;Natural born Citizen&quot; and &quot;Citizen&quot; are not the same thing.

The 14th Amendment defines who is a &lt;em&gt;citizen&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;strong&gt;not&lt;/strong&gt; who is a &lt;em&gt;natural born citizen&lt;/em&gt;.

It is possible to be born a &lt;em&gt;citizen&lt;/em&gt;, (by being born in the U.S.) and still not be a &lt;em&gt;natural born citizen&lt;/em&gt; (because one or both of the parents are not citizens).  The word &quot;natural&quot; in &quot;natural born citizen&quot; refers to &quot;natural law&quot;, and the natural law definition of a citizen remains: &lt;blockquote&gt;natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You would be correct if the 14th Amendment said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;All persons born in the United States are natural born citizens of the United States.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
But that is neither what it says, &lt;a href=&quot;http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/natural-born-citizen-defined-by-14th-amendment-framers-and-in-treatise-relied-on-by-scalia/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;nor what the author of the 14th Amendment intended&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, vargas, it is you who are wrong.  </p>
<p>There is a difference between &#8220;citizen&#8221; and &#8220;Natural Born Citizen&#8221;, as clearly evidenced by <a href="http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A2Sec1" rel="nofollow">Article II, Section 1</a> of the United States Constitution:</p>
<blockquote><p>No person except a <strong>natural born Citizen</strong>, <em><strong>or</strong></em> a <strong>Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution</strong>, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.</p></blockquote>
<p>Notice that &#8220;<em><strong>or</strong></em>&#8220;?  </p>
<p>&#8220;Natural born Citizen&#8221; and &#8220;Citizen&#8221; are not the same thing.</p>
<p>The 14th Amendment defines who is a <em>citizen</em>, <strong>not</strong> who is a <em>natural born citizen</em>.</p>
<p>It is possible to be born a <em>citizen</em>, (by being born in the U.S.) and still not be a <em>natural born citizen</em> (because one or both of the parents are not citizens).  The word &#8220;natural&#8221; in &#8220;natural born citizen&#8221; refers to &#8220;natural law&#8221;, and the natural law definition of a citizen remains:<br />
<blockquote>natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.</p></blockquote>
<p>You would be correct if the 14th Amendment said:</p>
<blockquote><p>All persons born in the United States are natural born citizens of the United States.</p></blockquote>
<p>But that is neither what it says, <a href="http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/natural-born-citizen-defined-by-14th-amendment-framers-and-in-treatise-relied-on-by-scalia/" rel="nofollow">nor what the author of the 14th Amendment intended</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle Malkin &#187; GOP govs, stimulus strings, and the legality of the Punish Mark Sanford Amendment</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-626830</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle Malkin &#187; GOP govs, stimulus strings, and the legality of the Punish Mark Sanford Amendment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-626830</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve been pointing out, the legality of the Punish Mark Sanford Amendment inserted by Democrat House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn (S.C.) is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve been pointing out, the legality of the Punish Mark Sanford Amendment inserted by Democrat House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn (S.C.) is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: vargas</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-626655</link>
		<dc:creator>vargas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-626655</guid>
		<description>RedPill:

As great as it is that you&#039;ve decided to capitalize your point, and that you&#039;ve cited an 18th-century text, that doesn&#039;t change the fact that you&#039;re wrong.
I.E. The 14th Amendment to the US Constitution: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Thus, if Obama was born in Hawaii, he is in fact a US citizen. Thanks for playing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RedPill:</p>
<p>As great as it is that you&#8217;ve decided to capitalize your point, and that you&#8217;ve cited an 18th-century text, that doesn&#8217;t change the fact that you&#8217;re wrong.<br />
I.E. The 14th Amendment to the US Constitution: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.</p>
<p>Thus, if Obama was born in Hawaii, he is in fact a US citizen. Thanks for playing.</p>
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		<title>By: thejim</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-626534</link>
		<dc:creator>thejim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-626534</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The GOP has some very good Governors, Sanford,Palin, Barber,and Jindal being among them.  They are right to consider not taking the money.  Way too many string attached, and NO they can&#039;t spend the money the way they might like. This is going to be a long 4 years!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The GOP has some very good Governors, Sanford,Palin, Barber,and Jindal being among them.  They are right to consider not taking the money.  Way too many string attached, and NO they can&#8217;t spend the money the way they might like. This is going to be a long 4 years!!!</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Aargh! And I mean that sincerely. : Pursuing Holiness</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-626524</link>
		<dc:creator>Aargh! And I mean that sincerely. : Pursuing Holiness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-626524</guid>
		<description>[...] Governor, Bobby Jindal, is one of the governors who may refuse some of the porkulus package. New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin says he&#8217;ll gladly take it&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Governor, Bobby Jindal, is one of the governors who may refuse some of the porkulus package. New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin says he&#8217;ll gladly take it&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Deaux</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-626474</link>
		<dc:creator>John Deaux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-626474</guid>
		<description>I think SC should take the money and lend it back to the Federal Gov. However, instead of a simple loan, treat it the same way the Feds did with Bailout I, only if they get an ownership stake. That way, by the end of BO&#039;s term, SC will have a majority ownership and we can clean house.

Hey, I can dream, can&#039;t I?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think SC should take the money and lend it back to the Federal Gov. However, instead of a simple loan, treat it the same way the Feds did with Bailout I, only if they get an ownership stake. That way, by the end of BO&#8217;s term, SC will have a majority ownership and we can clean house.</p>
<p>Hey, I can dream, can&#8217;t I?</p>
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		<title>By: Bobby Jindal sends B. Hussein Obama a strong message - may not take the porkulus money &#124; Fire Andrea Mitchell!</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-626466</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby Jindal sends B. Hussein Obama a strong message - may not take the porkulus money &#124; Fire Andrea Mitchell!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-626466</guid>
		<description>[...] Last week before the Generational Theft Act was rammed through, I called the sneaky provision to prevent governors from turning down stimulus money the “Punish Mark Sanford Amendment.” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Last week before the Generational Theft Act was rammed through, I called the sneaky provision to prevent governors from turning down stimulus money the “Punish Mark Sanford Amendment.” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ITookTheRedPill</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-626428</link>
		<dc:creator>ITookTheRedPill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-626428</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel_01.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;§ 215. Children of citizens born in a foreign country.&lt;/a&gt;
It is asked whether the children born of citizens in a foreign country are citizens? The laws have decided this question in several countries, and their regulations must be followed.(59) &lt;strong&gt;By the law of nature alone, children follow the condition of their fathers, and enter into all their rights (§ 212); &lt;em&gt;the place of birth produces no change in this particular&lt;/em&gt;, and cannot, of itself, furnish any reason for taking from a child what nature has given him&lt;/strong&gt;; I say &quot;of itself,&quot; for, civil or political laws may, for particular reasons, ordain otherwise. But I suppose that the father has not entirely quitted his country in order to settle elsewhere. If he has fixed his abode in a foreign country, he is become a member of another society, at least as a perpetual inhabitant; and his children will be members of it also.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Obama&#039;s father was a British citizen.  That fact is not disputed.

By the law of nature alone, which the founders of our country studied and followed, Obama was born a British citizen, and &lt;strong&gt;the place of birth produces no change in this particular&lt;/strong&gt;.  

I.E., Obama was born a British citizen EVEN IF HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><a href="http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel_01.htm" rel="nofollow">§ 215. Children of citizens born in a foreign country.</a><br />
It is asked whether the children born of citizens in a foreign country are citizens? The laws have decided this question in several countries, and their regulations must be followed.(59) <strong>By the law of nature alone, children follow the condition of their fathers, and enter into all their rights (§ 212); <em>the place of birth produces no change in this particular</em>, and cannot, of itself, furnish any reason for taking from a child what nature has given him</strong>; I say &#8220;of itself,&#8221; for, civil or political laws may, for particular reasons, ordain otherwise. But I suppose that the father has not entirely quitted his country in order to settle elsewhere. If he has fixed his abode in a foreign country, he is become a member of another society, at least as a perpetual inhabitant; and his children will be members of it also.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Obama&#8217;s father was a British citizen.  That fact is not disputed.</p>
<p>By the law of nature alone, which the founders of our country studied and followed, Obama was born a British citizen, and <strong>the place of birth produces no change in this particular</strong>.  </p>
<p>I.E., Obama was born a British citizen EVEN IF HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII.</p>
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		<title>By: ITookTheRedPill</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-626424</link>
		<dc:creator>ITookTheRedPill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-626424</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel_01.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;§ 212. Citizens and natives&lt;/a&gt;.
The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or &lt;strong&gt;natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.&lt;/strong&gt; As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><a href="http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel_01.htm" rel="nofollow">§ 212. Citizens and natives</a>.<br />
The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or <strong>natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.</strong> As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: denver republican</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2009/02/18/will-the-legality-of-the-punish-mark-sanford-amendment-be-tested/comment-page-1/#comment-626423</link>
		<dc:creator>denver republican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 23:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/?p=23458#comment-626423</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;The problem as I see it is that the Constitution doesn’t authorize these direct federal infusions into state coffers in any case.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
If we have a POTUS who can’t prove he was even born in our country, Denver Republican (so you’re the one!) why would the infusions matter?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Tee hee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote>The problem as I see it is that the Constitution doesn’t authorize these direct federal infusions into state coffers in any case.
</p></blockquote>
<p>If we have a POTUS who can’t prove he was even born in our country, Denver Republican (so you’re the one!) why would the infusions matter?</p></blockquote>
<p>Tee hee.</p>
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