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Comments

1. #655964
   On March 22nd, 2009 at 8:10 pm, chapoutier said:

   And, the mandatory provision…

   Oh. You mean the mandatory provision that is not in the bill that is in front of the House?

2. #655965
   On March 22nd, 2009 at 8:11 pm, NestingHawk said:

   Thank you for pointing that out, Flyoverman. I tend to think of it that way because I think the people who organize programs like that don’t exactly try to play up the “forced” aspect and want it to be thought of as volunteerism/willing when it isn’t.

   Pasadena Phil, I really have been trying to get that downloaded. I’m basically getting a few still pictures and the occasional grunt. I think it can download the whole thing, but doesn’t want to play it at a speed where I can understand what is being said. Thank you very much for the link, though, and even if I can’t get it tonight I will try again, probably tomorrow. I may, for unrelated reasons, be getting a much faster connection relatively soon, so you may see me in a month or so pop in and say “Hey, Pasadena Phil, great video!” Sorry my comp won’t cooperate.

3. #655966
   On March 22nd, 2009 at 8:21 pm, NestingHawk said:

   Chapoutier, if the government were funding an organization wherein 97% of the services it offered were soup kitchens but 3% of the services offered were taking babies after their first birthday and performing an abortion procedure on them, would you care about the soup kitchens?

   The part where I typed “performing an abortion procedure on them” was originally going to be a description of an abortion procedure, but I thought that too graphic and disgusting for this type of board.

4. #655969
   On March 22nd, 2009 at 8:45 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

   NestingHawk, just Google “Hensarling liddy aig and look for the CNBC link.

5. #655970
   On March 22nd, 2009 at 8:57 pm, chapoutier said:

   Chapoutier, if the government were funding an organization wherein 97% of the services it offered were soup kitchens but 3% of the services offered were taking babies after their first birthday and performing an abortion procedure on them, would you care about the soup kitchens?

   No, I would not. Thankfully there are no such organizations.

6. #655973
   On March 22nd, 2009 at 9:01 pm, Flyoverman said:

   On March 22nd, 2009 at 8:11 pm, NestingHawk said:

   Thanks.

   I was in the military when during the final years of the draft and the beginning of the volunteer force. That experience convinced me that unless we get into something on the scale of WWII we never want a draft again.

   That experience also convinces me that mandatory service is an equally bad idea. Virtually all “draftees” did their duty and served with honor. What I found so distasteful about it was:

   1) The 2-3% of those who protested being their were a huge personnel nightmare.
   2) When you have a large supply of people you have a large amount of waste and inefficiency.
   3) Worse is the attitude towards the “draftees” supervisory personnel. They feel no obligation to care for or treat them the same way they treat “regulars.”

   I would not favor any such mandatory service program. Teach kids from text books that do not villify America, teach them love of country, and respect for our values. You will have all the volunteers you need for any program.

7. #656027
   On March 22nd, 2009 at 11:47 pm, Jet Jaguar said:

   On March 22nd, 2009 at 5:17 pm, Flyoverman

   Sorry, Flyoverman, the computer filters only saw “lynch mob”. The Secret Service will be contacting you shortly.

8. #656028
   On March 22nd, 2009 at 11:54 pm, Papa Louie said:

   I’ve been away, so I haven’t had a chance until now to respond to Chap’s comments from last night:

   On March 21st, 2009 at 6:15 pm, chapoutier said:

   Then maybe you should have quoted Helverling v. Davis. Because what general welfare means versus whether or not the tax and spend power is a distinct power are two wholly different questions. But I guess “the Davis did it” isn’t as catchy, hmmm?

   No, I still contend that the Butler did it. It was the case that opened the door to our current mess by watering down the General Welfare clause. The Justices determined that the AAA processing taxes were justified under the General Welfare Clause, but then struck them down because of the Tenth Amendment. In his opinion, Justice Owen Roberts sided with the broad view of Hamilton over the narrow view of Madison (and Jefferson) on the General Welfare Clause.

   Butler was cited when Helvering v. Davis was upheld under the General Welfare Clause. The Tenth Amendment in this case was found to be inapplicable. Both the Tenth Amendment and the General Welfare Clause have had no teeth since.

   Butler was a turning point in the Court’s thinking. In later jurisprudence Butler has been referenced to support expansion of authority under the Spending Clause. In my opinion, Butler struck the mortal blow and later cases, like Helvering, put the nails in the coffin.

   But in any case, it is still not true that Congress is not restrained by the “general welfare” clause. The court just decided that Congress was probably a better judge of that than an individual state or the court. Which I am sure you would support. We don’t want activist judges, right?

   You don’t have to be an activist judge to uphold the constitution and provide a check and balance on Congress. I like checks and balances. As it now stands, the courts defer to the judgement of Congress to determine what is in the “general welfare” of the country. The Supreme Court has literally given Congress a blank check, which, as everyone is aware, they are not shy in using to buy votes. They always claim its for a “good cause.” But there are always more good causes than there is money available to pay for them.

   Congress is a runaway money train. The Suppreme Court refuses to apply the brakes. Our only hope is for Congress to learn how to control itself, but I’ve been around too long to hold out much faith that that will ever happen.

9. #656031
   On March 22nd, 2009 at 11:58 pm, USpace said:

   Thanks Jet Jaguar, this was pretty out there:
   http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-37445-3.html

   

   http://rjart.blogspot.com/2009/02/obama-and-unicorns.html

   .
   absurd thought -
   God of the Universe says
   you can ALWAYS blame Bush

   when Obama and Congress
   ALL Democrats mess it up

   .
   absurd thought -
   God of the Universe says
   Bush was worse than Hitler

   and Stalin and Mao
   and the Devil combined
   .
   All real freedom starts with freedom of speech. Without freedom of speech there can be no real freedom.
   .

10. #656052
    On March 23rd, 2009 at 2:38 am, RetFireman said:

    Check out this new Newsweek article that just came out. Seems there is this former guard from GitMo who has spent the last 4-5 years badmouthing the other guards, the Army, and the United States, helping to spread the lies concerning the treatment of the scum being held there and so forth.

    Well, turns out that this punk was hiding something the whole time. Turns out that he was fraternizing with the prisoners, sitting there night after night, striking up friendships and such and converted to Islam right there on the floor one night.

    Now gosh… wouldn’t that have been something he should have let people know about 4-5 years ago? Gee…do you think that might just have tainted his opinions somewhat?

    He ends up with some sort of reverse Stockholm Syndrome and the media conveniently leaves that part out.

    You need to go there and read the story and then read all the comments from his fellow practicers of that peaceful religion as well as the Truthers. It really is just maddening. I guess now that Der Fuhrer is shutting it down based on his and other;s lies, he feels safe to come forward with his ruse.

    Go here for the story.

11. #656099
    On March 23rd, 2009 at 7:37 am, mike.musculus said:

    #159
    On March 22nd, 2009 at 11:59 am, NestingHawk said:
    Mike.musculus:
    Vegetarianism…

    I have no problem w/ it per se. Indeed, the LDS Church has something called “The Word of Wisdom” which states in part that meat should be used sparingly.

    What I was talking about was the trend to use the Power of The State to enforce the vegitarian way of life. PETA-like organizations are shooting for that, and its all over their lit.

    Indeed, the new propaganda about “it takes 100 acres of grain to feed a steer, 50 for a chicken, but only 1 for a human” along with monitoring cow-farts (they produce so much methane! It is singificantly changing our climate!) is all part of a piece.

    BTW, If you want your car keyed, when a vegi-fascist starts talking about the damage domesticated critters are causing to Gia, act concerned… draw them out, talk about the disappearence of wildlife! They’ll go full-bore at that point, note that the amout of animal life has remained approx. stable, just shifted to different types. Ask why a buffalo-fart is better than a cow’s for Gia. Or a deers’ if better than a dog’s. They have no answer except to call you a fascist for challenging their propaganda. And this when you aren’t the one trying to force a different way of life on somebody else.

12. #656154
    On March 23rd, 2009 at 9:01 am, chapoutier said:

    I like checks and balances. As it now stands, the courts defer to the judgement of Congress to determine what is in the “general welfare” of the country.

    Then you should be praising Butler, not scapegoating it. There, the Court still held power to determine what was in the national welfare. That view was specifically overturned in Davis.

    The Madison/Jeffersonian view of the taxing and spending clause was never the predominant one. Butler just recognized what had been the case since the founding of our Country, so I don’t think you can fault it much on that front.

13. #656249
    On March 23rd, 2009 at 11:01 am, thetoysurgeon said:

    Just heard about the 3 possibly 4 Oakland poice officers who lost their lives. I thought assault rifles were banned in California? This is perfect evidence that the bad guys will get the gun under any weapon ban. The law biding citizens will be like sheep to the slaughter if they cannot protect themselves. The police can’t do it. All police forces should have assault weapons !

14. #656729
    On March 23rd, 2009 at 6:15 pm, Avi Green said:

    Here’s a great video I posted on the game blog of Windjammers, the flying disc game! It’s cool!

15. #656829
    On March 23rd, 2009 at 8:30 pm, NestingHawk said:

    Pasadena Phil,
    Thank you very much! This is the link I was able to use.
    http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/18/cnr.06.html
    I think Hensarling had some good points that he expressed well, but where was he going with “double or nothing”?

16. #656830
    On March 23rd, 2009 at 8:32 pm, NestingHawk said:

    Mike.Musculus:
    Ah. Thanks for the clarification, and for not looping us all in with PETA

17. #656836
    On March 23rd, 2009 at 8:50 pm, NestingHawk said:

    Flyoverman,
    Thank YOU, and to all commenting and lurking vets. I have never been in the military and likely never will be, but not out of lack of respect or lack of gratitude for what the military does or the sacrifices the members of our armed forces make.

    I have heard some similar things about the effect of the draft from someone else I know who was in the military at that time. I know right on top of my list for reasons I’m not in the military is “suspected gross incompetence at it,” and even though I am only in a position to make an uneducated guess, I would think that kind of self-filtration would be good for the military, too. And, at 99% sure I am medically ineligible in at least two different ways, I would be a waste of the military’s time to look at, so I would think when the government doesn’t need to confirm everyone’s reasons, that would save some time, too.

    I remember somebody bringing up in a class an attempt to reintroduce the draft, and I had to correct the person as to which party the attempt was coming from. (She thought it had something to do with Bush, I think, and it had actually been the work of two congressional Democrats?) People are always very surprised when I do that in real life. I don’t know why.

    My experience with volunteering mostly involves animals, and I’m trying to imagine people who were forced into it and my brain is trying not to let me go there. It can be hard enough to explain to real volunteers that you really shouldn’t wear nice clothes to these outings. Large numbers of people with serious discomfort around animals…That’s asking for trouble.

18. #656838
    On March 23rd, 2009 at 8:53 pm, NestingHawk said:

    Chapoutier,
    So you understand why a pro-lifer would be underwhelmed by the 3% statistic?

19. #657156
    On March 24th, 2009 at 11:02 am, mike.musculus said:

    #209 & #210
    NestingHawk said:

    NestingHawk:
    Thank you! I’ve learned lot from vegetarians[sp?] that has allowed me to follow The Word of Wisdom, and I’m quite thankful!

    As far as Military Service is concerned, (depending on the branch) it takes about 1300 people/person “at the tip of the spear”. Intelligent warriors don’t deride the support troops because w/o them the warrior couldn’t function!

    And, that structure extends into society at large, too! Without the citizens whom we protect, we’d not only have no function but also have no way of performing our function.

    In this life, we all have Our Duty to perform. For some it is no more exciting than being a good citizen: being informed and knowledgable of the Founding Father’s writing, the History of Our Republic, and its machinery. And guarding it from tampering by those, incl. some of our fellow citizens, who – well meaning or not – decide to sabotage its working.

    For others, we put on a uniform and do the same thing. We’re none of us unnecessary because each has capabilities that others lack – either in kind or measure! THAT is the evil of Socialism: it treats society like a body, and people like cells. Loose a few skin cells, and its no big deal – might even be beneficial. No recognition of the uniquiness of each person, just cogs in the machines – it converts Heavenly Father’s Children into Machine (Society) parts. To them the only “important” part being the “head”.

    Well, got to go!