To GIVE and to SERVE: the $6 billion National Service boondoggle

By Michelle Malkin  •  March 25, 2009 09:50 AM

My syndicated column today looks at the massive expansion of government-funded “national service.” Debate began yesterday in the Senate, where the $6 billion SERVE Act’s primary co-sponsors are Sens. Ted Kennedy and…Orrin Hatch. And there’s the rub. Since its inception, AmeriCorps has been a bipartisan-supported beast. The Evil Party and the Stupid Party strike again. If this does lead to the establishment of a civilian national security force, as Obama signaled during the campaign, Republicans who vote for this Trojan Horse will have no one to blame but themselves.

***

To GIVE and to SERVE: The $6 billion National Service boondoggle
by Michelle Malkin
Creators Syndicate
Copyright 2009

Maybe it’s just me, but I find federal legislation titled “The GIVE Act” and “The SERVE Act” downright creepy. Even more troubling: The $6 billion price tag on these bipartisan bills to expand government-funded national service efforts. Volunteerism is a wonderful thing, which is why millions of Americans do it every day without a cent of taxpayer money. But the volunteerism packages on the Hill are less about promoting effective charity than about creating make-work, permanent bureaucracies, and left-wing slush funds.

The House passed the “Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act” – or the GIVE Act – last week. The Senate took up the companion “SERVE Act” Tuesday afternoon. According to a Congressional Budget Office analysis of the Senate bill, S. 277, the bill would cost “$418 million in 2010 and about $5.7 billion over the 2010-2014 period.” And like most federal programs, these would be sure to grow over time. The bills reauthorize the Clinton-era Americorps boondoggle program and an older law, the Domestic Volunteer Service Act of 1973.

The programs have already been allocated $1.1 billion for fiscal 2009, including $200 million from the porkulus package signed into law last month. In addition to recruiting up to 250,000 enrollees in AmeriCorps, the GIVE/SERVE bills would create new little armies of government volunteers, including a Clean Energy Corps, Education Corps, Healthy Futures Corps, Veterans Service Corps, and and expanded National Civilian Community Corps for disaster relief and energy conservation. And that’s not all. Spending would include new funds for:

*Foster Grandparent Program ($115 million);

*Learn and Serve America. ($97 million);

*Retired and Senior Volunteer Program ($70 million);

*Senior Companion Program ($55 million);

*$12 million for each of fiscal years 2010 through 2014 for “the Silver Scholarships and Encore Fellowships programs;”

*$10 million a year from 2010-2014 for a new “Volunteers for Prosperity” program at USAID to “award grants to fund opportunities for volunteering internationally

in coordination with eligible organizations; and

*Social Innovation Fund and Volunteer Generation Fund-$50 million in 2010; $60 million in 2011; $70 million in 2012; $80 million in 2013; and $100 million in 2014.

“Social Innovation Fund?” If that sounds familiar, it should. I reported last fall on the Democratic Party platform’s push to fund a “Social Investment Fund Network” that would reward “social entrepreneurs and leading nonprofit organizations” and “support results-oriented innovators.” It is essentially a special taxpayer-funded pipeline for radical liberal groups backed by billionaire George Soros that masquerade as public-interest do-gooders.

Especially troublesome to parents’ groups concerned about compulsory volunteerism requirements is a provision in the House version, directing Congress to explore “whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.”

Those who have watched AmeriCorps from its inception are all-too-familiar with how government voluntarism programs have been used for propaganda and political purposes. AmeriCorps “volunteers” have been put to work lobbying against the voter-approved three-strikes anti-crime initiative in California and protesting Republican political events while working for the already heavily-tax-subsidized liberal advocacy group ACORN.

Citizens Against Government Waste, the D.C. watchdog, also documented national service volunteers lobbying for rent control, expanded federal housing subsidies, and enrollment of more women in the Women, Infants, and Children welfare program. AmeriCorps volunteers have also been paid to shuffle paper at the Department of Justice, the Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Legal Services Corporation, and the National Endowment for the Arts.

(Now, imagine Obama’s troops being sent overseas – out of sight and unaccountable — as part of that $10 million a year USAID/”Volunteers for Prosperity” program. Egad.)

One vigilant House member, GOP Rep. Virginia Foxx, successfully attached an amendment to the GIVE Act to bar National Service recipients from engaging in political lobbying, endorsing or opposing legislation, organizing petitions, protests, boycotts, or strikes; providing or promoting abortions or referrals; or influencing union organizing.

Supporters of GIVE/SERVE are now fighting those restrictions tooth and nail, screaming censorship and demanding that the provisions be dropped. Which tells you everything you need to know about the true nature of this boondoggle: Taxpayers GIVE their money to SERVE a big government agenda under the guise of helping their fellow man. It’s charity at the point of a gun.

***

Don’t know why, but the creepy title of the Senate bill reminds me of that classic Twilight Zone episode, “To Serve Man.” Remember?

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Comments


  1. #101
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:27 am, chapoutier said:

    Can we change our screen names?!

    By using the nickname feature and “display name publicly as” feature.

  2. #102
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:28 am, SpeakEasy said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 10:21 am, old trooper said:
    Service is Voluntary, not Mandatory. The US Constitution expressly FORBIDS Involuntary Servitude. Period.

    The Bill of Rights also guarantees the right to own and bear arms. I ask (in my best Dr Phil voice) “How is that working out for you?”

    These Community Security Forces are the ones who will come for your guns- it will not be the military by and large. Most I believe will resign and join forces with the rebels. (Civil War History 101) I predict a different outcome.

  3. #103
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:28 am, old trooper said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:22 am, swede said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:12 am, old trooper said:

    What old trooper said. And many thanks for your service bro.

    It was Voluntary. Everyone owes the Nation something but Obama has not given The Nation anything but anything but Lip Service, higher Taxes and fear about what quasi-legal monkey business will pop up next.

  4. #104
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:29 am, taylork said:

    Please explain the black panthers standing guard at the polling place on Nov. 5 in Penn?

    I don’t see how that’s related to Americorp, and it’s not like the guy followed voters into the booth. I’m not saying I’m okay with it, mind you, but I’ve seen politicking too close to voting sites numerous times in democrat held cities. This might have been a more extreme example given the man’s affiliation, but I see it as no different that the supporters who hand out flyers at the school doors where voting is held. MY calling and complaining hasn’t made a difference there, either. —my point is, that this is not unique to Obama, but rather a phenomena that is seen is democrat strongholds.

    Again, I need to reiterate that I don’t support Americorp, I think it’s a worthless program. But my experience with the program shows that they don’t have the wherewithal to do much.

    The difference is when you add compulsary, required etc. it is not volunteerism.

    I don’t disagree with that. But it was never really volunteerism to begin with, as the people got paid. AS far as it being a string attachement ona gov’t loan, it sucks, but you don’t have to take it, and chances are you’ll accmplish nothing over a three month period anyway.

    One of the big problems with the program(in terms of it’s efficacy) is that you can’t take systemic neighborhood problems that have persisted for decades, insert a random stranger in a “helping role” for a few months and expect them to do anything.

  5. #105
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:30 am, JonB said:

    Which by the way, if you want to see public revolt, just try to make our kids do any sort of mandatory service. It won’t be permitted. Ever. Period.

    This may or may not be true, but consider that a few weeks back there was a news article about how the govt was considering saving money in the public education system by cutting the number of school days from 5 to 4.
    This would cause a huge amount of pressure for working parents as they’d have one day a week in which their children would have nothing to do.

    My prediction: We’ll see the 4 day school week, and the 5th day problem will be resolved with a day of direct indoctrination.

  6. #106
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:30 am, ErinF said:

    These Community Security Forces are the ones who will come for your guns- it will not be the military by and large. Most I believe will resign and join forces with the rebels. (Civil War History 101) I predict a different outcome.

    Gun owners will not put up with this. This will be the last straw that sparks the next revolution.

  7. #107
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:31 am, txvet2 said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:10 am, chapoutier said:

    But you think they will slip a provision that neither bill contains in conference?

    Do you seriously think that they don’t? If one of them wants it, it’ll be in there, no matter what.

    Can you say “moral equivalence”? Careful. Someone might confuse you for lgm.

    The usual leftist argument. One set of rules for me, another for thee.

  8. #108
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:32 am, tamarah180 said:

    And they don’t hate the Jews. They hate the Christians – that’s totally different!

    Wrong – they hate us both because we have dictionaries and *KNOW* what the word volunteer really means – service on behalf of other people in the name of the Creator for nothing tangible.

    Called Feinstein and Boxer and registered my extreme displeasure of the pending legislature. Not that I think they will take it under advisement, they are Senate lifers after all, but I am still an American and my cell phone was in the mood. It got a little feisty after hearing about TOTUS’s adventures last night.

  9. #109
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:34 am, NJ-Aviator said:

    chapoutier said:

    Especially troublesome to parents’ groups concerned about compulsory volunteerism requirements is a provision in the House version, directing Congress to explore “whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.”

    Michelle,

    This is not true. The version of the bill that passed the House removed the entire section containing this language.

    Hold on a minute there cowboy. What exactly is not true?

    She wrote that a provision of the bill is troublesome to parents concerned about compulsory service. She didn’t say that it was or was not in the bill that passed. Only that it was present in the bill and was a concern.

    The issue is… that it was there at all. And since it was there… it’s likely if not certain to be brought back in. So that’s a concern for parents. The content of the final house bill isn’t the point. It’s what the democrats in congress are attempting to do.

  10. #110
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:34 am, old trooper said:

    One of the big problems with the program(in terms of it’s efficacy) is that you can’t take systemic neighborhood problems that have persisted for decades, insert a random stranger in a “helping role” for a few months and expect them to do anything.

    We all know how much safer Chicago is after the Community Organizer in Chief did his part. You are actually safer in Baghdad than Chicago, Detroit or DC.

  11. #111
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:35 am, chapoutier said:

    The usual leftist argument. One set of rules for me, another for thee.

    If I write that a very controversial provision is in a bill when it really isn’t, feel free to call me out on it.

    Do YOU want to take my bet? If that provision is in there when the bill is signed, I will change my screen name for a month to whatever you want. If not, I can change yours.

  12. #112
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:35 am, DesertLover said:

    Term Limits … NOW!!!!

  13. #113
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:36 am, swede said:

    dominigan said:
    On March 25th, 2009 at 10:21 am, old trooper said:

    Really? Depends on your definition of voluntary and mandatory.

    Not so much. Voluntary by definition is not mandatory. “Service” by itself does not imply either.

    My definition of is, is is.

  14. #114
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:37 am, NJ-Aviator said:

    These Community Security Forces are the ones who will come for your guns- it will not be the military by and large.

    I’m not sure how this made it into the thread, but it would be an ill-advised venture to attempt to enter my home to confiscate legally possessed weapons.

  15. #115
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:38 am, chapoutier said:

    Only that it was present in the bill and was a concern.

    Its not present in the bill. Those previous versions are meaningless.

    Jeez. She was wrong. She made a mistake. Just accept it, people.

  16. #116
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:40 am, old trooper said:

    Upon suspension of the Bill of Rights, my personal Rules of Engagement apply on my property.

    Otherwise my No Trespassing signs apply.

  17. #117
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:40 am, RabbidSquirrel said:

    Especially troublesome to parents’ groups concerned about compulsory volunteerism requirements is a provision in the House version, directing Congress to explore “whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation

    My kids are all in agreement that Mr Obama can go have sexual relations with himslef.

    Two examples why this is a bad idea:

    ) When in the military, kids quickly discovered that smoking was the best way to get out of work. About 50 times a day, all of them would leave the workspace to go for a smoke, leaving myself and one or two other guys to do actual work. I finally just got to where as soon as they left, I would kick back and stop my work until they returned.

    ) People with really nice cars should never ever ever never take up two parking spaces in order to protect their paint job. When the kids were younger, it became a fun little family game, where when we found a car taking up more than its share, I would turn the kids loose in the parking lot to do what they wanted to do, as I walked into a store. And my kids arent even hoodlums. They are just Abercrombie and Fitch/Hollister/Hot Topic suburban preppies that hate preppies. Just think what the real hoodlums will be doing.

  18. #118
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:42 am, old trooper said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:38 am, chapoutier said:

    Only that it was present in the bill and was a concern.

    Its not present in the bill. Those previous versions are meaningless.

    Jeez. She was wrong. She made a mistake. Just accept it, people.

    Lets just wait for the Final Product. Obama promised to post it on his .gov website 5 days prior to any action. Like he promised not to hire any Lobbyists. Hah!

  19. #119
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:42 am, happy2behere said:

    Looks to me like Michelle was either punked by the source or was not able to revise the pre-written article after a newer version was passed.

    Perhaps the Senate will add the paragraph to their version of the bill, who knows?

    The bill’s language is a concern nonetheless.

  20. #120
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:43 am, txvet2 said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:38 am, chapoutier said:

    Jeez. She was wrong. She made a mistake. Just accept it, people.

    Wow, you’re getting all upset again. Why are you obsessing on such a trivial point? If she’s wrong, I’m sure she’ll issue a correction in a month or two on page 46 of the classifieds, like the NY Times.

  21. #121
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:43 am, tamarah180 said:

    Obama heart broken over homeless Really?
    Hmmm… somehow, I doubt it. Consider his own brother still live in a leaky shack.

    His brother isn’t homeless, he lives in a shack. The D’oh cannot be concerned with a few raindrops splashing inside the place once in a while. Plus, they’ve been having a drought. He’s dry.

    /sarc off

  22. #122
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:45 am, ErinF said:

    Jeez. She was wrong. She made a mistake. Just accept it, people.

    Then PLEASE take it up DIRECTLY WITH MICHELLE for crying out loud! Her email is on her contact page, and she’s usually pretty good at responding. Give it a freaking rest, chaffepowder!

    Call me crazy, but I don’t feel obligated to believe obama nor the congressional dems will EVER DO THE RIGHT THING and PRESERVE OUR FREEDOMS. Their record so far dictates they want to take our freedoms (and money) to feed “the common good”.

    You like socialism/communism so much? Fine. There are many dictatorships/3rd world nations you can choose from to move to. Leave America alone.

  23. #123
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:46 am, RufusTFirefly said:

    hahahahaha!

    thanks chap!

  24. #124
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:47 am, RufusTFirefly said:

    what?

  25. #125
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:49 am, T-Bone said:

    Elections have consequences.

    Sigh.

  26. #126
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:51 am, wighttrasch said:

    hmmm; it doesn’t let me post anything under a new ‘nickname’.

  27. #127
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:52 am, Living in the PSRK said:

    CHAP: Thanks for reminding us on how we can change our screen names.

    I’ve been wanting to do that since I moved back from CA from CO.

    tam

  28. #128
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:53 am, chapoutier said:

    Why are you obsessing on such a trivial point?

    You think that provision is trivial?

    MM doesn’t. She calls it “especially troublesome.” I think it is very important that she is misinforming people, telling them that there is a provision that could lead to mandatory service when there is not. Isn’t that what 90% of the comments are bitching about?

    If she’s wrong,

    Hello. She already is wrong. She is claiming that the provision is in the bill. It is not.

    The bootlicking here is amazing.

  29. #129
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:53 am, Living in the PSRK said:

    Thanks CHAP, wanted to do that for a while.

  30. #130
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:54 am, RTater said:

    NJ – Simply pass a law that makes those weapons illegal. Simple, no? Something along the lines of…. they aren’t registered in the federal registry, didn’t have the annual inspection, when the inspector went to NJ Aviator’s home for the purpose of inspecting the registered firearms, he was denied entry.

    Now they are no longer legally possessed weapons, are they? No. Now you are a felon.

    House Bill 45

    http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/show

    Sponsored by Rep Bobby Rush (D) IL

    This is the same Bobby Rush who went AWOL from the US Army to found a chapter of the Black Panthers, and was convicted, sentenced, and served 6 months for illegal weapons possession (I haven’t found the details on that yet).

    In fairness, I don’t think Rep Rush is 100% bad, he does protest the genocide in Sudan.

  31. #131
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:54 am, Elm Creek Smith said:

    We already have a civilian national security force. It is described in Title 10, Chapter 13, USC.

    The best part is that it doesn’t require funding, thanks to the Second Amendment of the Constitution.

    Hope is not a plan; not all change is good. The resistance is here; the resistance is now.

    ECS

  32. #132
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:54 am, SpeakEasy said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:08 am, Flyoverman said:
    His Aunty has a deportation hearing next week and the White House announced Obama was going to do nothing on her behalf.
    I find that to be downright weird.

    You do not seriously believe NO ONE will intervene? No offense but that would be naive. One of his disciples will take it upon themselves to hook her up. Then he can claim ignorance.(he always could in my opinion).

  33. #133
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:57 am, happyscrapper said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 10:47 am,

    MarcoPolo said:
    He had them turning in neighbors, and even PARENTS and RELATIVES, for crimes against the STATE… I know that’s a stretch, but just kicking around HISTORY…

    Remember the kid in The Sound of Music who loved the Von Trapp girl? He was in Hitler’s youth corps and ended up betraying the Von Trapps even though he was in love with the girl. He was brainwashed into doing the bidding of his leader. This is no stretch at all. This particular history is very very close to repeating itself!

  34. #134
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:58 am, chapoutier said:

    Why are you obsessing on such a trivial point?

    You think its trivial? MM does not. She thinks its “especially troublesome.” Aren’t 75% of the comments here whining about some mandatory service requirement that doesn’t exist?

    If she’s wrong

    She is wrong. There is no “if.” She says the bill contains the provision. It does not.

    The bootlicking here is amazing.

  35. #135
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:58 am, RogerCfromSD said:

    When the provision reappears, my vote for Chap’s new nickname is: AsslessChaps.

  36. #136
    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:59 am, regularguy said:

    I don’t have a big problem with volunteer service of many forms. I was a Peace Corps volunteer over 10 years ago, and, by and large, it made me the staunch conservative I am. I finally began to realize what utter incompetence and corruption rackets the whole industry is. And it truly is an industry racket.

    Unfortunately, many liberals who go into these programs come out the same liberals they went in as, and it never dawns on them that the people they’re supposed to be trying to help have to solve their own problems to make any real CHANGE in their lives. The intention is to make people independent, but that rarely happens, it turns into a governmental paternalism problem instead. The main way people are ultimately helped is that they need to be forced to literally sink (starve) or swim (succeed) on their own. Most people, like teens kicked out of the house, ultimately make it on their own, and if they don’t or won’t, they CHOOSE to become failures. The never ending program here and there merely postpones the independence of the people you are trying to help. And why not be a slug if someone else will foot the bill?

    I’ve rarely seen volunteers with the skills to actually help people out anyway. It’s a real world indictment of the university system, but don’t tell that to the liberals. You can come out of the university system, in debt up to your eyeballs, and with few, if any, real skills needed to help the very people who will, uneducated, will teach you more how to get along than any college professor could. Worse, the university system leaves you arrogant and thinking you have all the answers, when you’re a complete dope anyway.

    I’d like to see interns working alongside entrepeneurs who, real world, have to put together a business and run it, pay a payroll and taxes and put a real product out. What an education that would be for the intern volunteer. Then they can go out and help the next business guy. A volunteer corps for business. Yep, some could be volunteers for the disabled etc who really need the hand (like war veterans, that might just impress upon the volunteer the real sacrifices the veteran made to his country). But, most of this will never happen, because the rackets are more there for reinforcing the liberal mindset than for breaking the liberal mindset, as it did for me.

    Last, these poor volunteers are going to be promised their service is going to be a big thing on their resume, when in fact, nobody out there in the real world gives a rat’s behind that you served, they only want someone with the skills to do the job they’re providing you. Volunteering is never a complete waste of time, but it doesn’t entitle you to a job afterward.

  37. #137
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:00 pm, lottadawg said:

    It won’t matter whether its constitutional or not. Obama , along with a completely ignorant group of his politically correct army of paid volunteers established in each community.
    In Russia and Red China they were called block bosses.
    They’re paid by tax dollars, favored for government jobs, or when it gets really bad front line privileges for the best protein.
    Sorta like your neighbor than shows up with a demand and a lead pipe. ( read Mafia, Union Boss, or weasel)(no disrespect to weasels).
    This is criminal, insidious,and goes against every principle of freedom.
    Make no mistake. This is a very real possibility.
    It happened like that under Lenin, Stalin,Mao, Castro, and Chavez.
    There is a reason why Che posters are all over the Obama campaign.
    This needs to be fought.
    David check the Ka Bar.

  38. #138
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:01 pm, Nosferightu said:

    “The SERVE Act…it’s a cookbook!”

  39. #139
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:03 pm, ErinF said:

    When the provision reappears, my vote for Chap’s new nickname is: AsslessChaps.

    Sounds snappy, except for the fact this person is 100% ass. How about if we just go with “OneBigAss”, and leave it at that?

  40. #140
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:05 pm, southsideironworks said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:54 am, Elm Creek Smith said:

    We already have a civilian national security force. It is described in Title 10, Chapter 13, USC.

    Agreed, the unknown issue, to me at least, is whose command I/we would fall under. The first thing the sissy politicians in IL, where I live, would want to try and lock my weapons up in an armory someplace. That’s a serious issue, because i am sure that would be the first thing they try to do if a militia comes out into the open.

    Forced compulsory service would be next.

  41. #141
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:09 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    My prediction: We’ll see the 4 day school week, and the 5th day problem will be resolved with a day of direct indoctrination.

    No way will they do anything to encourage parents to stay home with their kids, that’s for sure.

    The administration is also looking at a year-round school calendar, and more government funded “early childhood education” programs.

    Scary, scary stuff.

  42. #142
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:09 pm, Ignatius Reilly said:

    MM: But the volunteerism packages on the Hill are less about promoting effective charity than about creating make-work, permanent bureaucracies, and left-wing slush funds.

    That is the God’s truth!

    I worked for a while in my state government where there were a sprinkling of these “volunteers” assigned. They had no skills and no one wanted them. They were given desks and tucked into out-of-the-way niches.

    Some spent their days playing video games. Others simply managed their personal lives and surfed the web. Still others spent their time in “giving back,” with leftwing activism, to the power structure that put them in these idle positions.

    Advice to young people: If you really want to contribute, to make a difference yada yada, there is one really great way to do it: GO OUT AND GET A PRODUCTIVE JOB, SUPPORT YOURSELF, PAY TAXES, AND SUPPLY PRODUCTS AND SERVICES THAT YOUR FELLOW CITIZENS ACTUALLY WANT AND ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR.

  43. #143
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:11 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    Remember the kid in The Sound of Music who loved the Von Trapp girl? He was in Hitler’s youth corps and ended up betraying the Von Trapps even though he was in love with the girl. He was brainwashed into doing the bidding of his leader. This is no stretch at all. This particular history is very very close to repeating itself!

    Of course – Rolf. He had a whistle.

  44. #144
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:13 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    His brother isn’t homeless, he lives in a shack. The D’oh cannot be concerned with a few raindrops splashing inside the place once in a while. Plus, they’ve been having a drought. He’s dry.

    And Obama is funding abortions for his girlfriends again, right?

  45. #145
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:14 pm, dominigan said:

    Not so much. Voluntary by definition is not mandatory. “Service” by itself does not imply either.

    My definition of is, is is.

    Good Lord, you don’t actually expect words to mean anything, do you? (HUGE SARCASM HERE for those who don’t pick up on it!)

    I fully expect Obama to roll it out as a voluntary service, and then school systems to promote that as their only choice in a mandatory graduation requirement.

    Some people only look at the law.

    Others look ahead to how it will be applied.

  46. #146
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:15 pm, Jeff said:

    Changed my nickname from Jeff2161

  47. #147
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:16 pm, Jeff said:

    posting under new nickname…

  48. #148
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:16 pm, b-cat said:

    Sounds snappy, except for the fact this person is 100% ass. How about if we just go with “OneBigAss”, and leave it at that?

    I don’t think that’s neccesary. Chap is entitled to his opinion and is usually able to state it without mean personal attacks. I often enjoy his posts.

  49. #149
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:20 pm, RTater said:

    Linky:

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s111-277

    I’m sure everyone in the House and Senate read the entire thing before voting.

  50. #150
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:21 pm, chapoutier said:

    I don’t think that’s neccesary. Chap is entitled to his opinion and is usually able to state it without mean personal attacks. I often enjoy his posts.

    I will change it to whatever no matter how silly, nasty or degrading, so long as it does not violate the terms of use.

  51. #151
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:22 pm, secondsight said:

    83 Republicans voted for this, two fewer than for the AIG bonus confiscation.

    It may be interesting to compare the two lists; we probably now have a working list of RINO capitulators to the Obamabots.

    Republicans Voting ‘Aye’
    Name Voted
    Rep. Steve Austria [R, OH-7] Aye
    Rep. Spencer Bachus [R, AL-6] Aye
    Rep. Joe Barton [R, TX-6] Aye
    Rep. Judy Biggert [R, IL-13] Aye
    Rep. Gus Bilirakis [R, FL-9] Aye
    Rep. Mary Bono Mack [R, CA-45] Aye
    Rep. Henry Brown [R, SC-1] Aye
    Rep. Virginia Brown-Waite [R, FL-5] Aye
    Rep. Vern Buchanan [R, FL-13] Aye
    Rep. Michael Burgess [R, TX-26] Aye
    Rep. Ken Calvert [R, CA-44] Aye
    Rep. David Camp [R, MI-4] Aye
    Rep. Anh Cao [R, LA-2] Aye
    Rep. Shelley Capito [R, WV-2] Aye
    Rep. Bill Cassidy [R, LA-6] Aye
    Rep. Michael Castle [R, DE-0] Aye
    Rep. Jason Chaffetz [R, UT-3] Aye
    Rep. Mike Coffman [R, CO-6] Aye
    Rep. Tom Cole [R, OK-4] Aye
    Rep. Ander Crenshaw [R, FL-4] Aye
    Rep. Charles Dent [R, PA-15] Aye
    Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart [R, FL-25] Aye
    Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart [R, FL-21] Aye
    Rep. David Dreier [R, CA-26] Aye
    Rep. Vernon Ehlers [R, MI-3] Aye
    Rep. Jo Ann Emerson [R, MO-8] Aye
    Rep. Mary Fallin [R, OK-5] Aye
    Rep. Jeffrey Fortenberry [R, NE-1] Aye
    Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen [R, NJ-11] Aye
    Rep. Elton Gallegly [R, CA-24] Aye
    Rep. Jim Gerlach [R, PA-6] Aye
    Rep. Brett Guthrie [R, KY-2] Aye
    Rep. Dean Heller [R, NV-2] Aye
    Rep. Timothy Johnson [R, IL-15] Aye
    Rep. Peter King [R, NY-3] Aye
    Rep. Leonard Lance [R, NJ-7] Aye
    Rep. Steven LaTourette [R, OH-14] Aye
    Rep. Christopher Lee [R, NY-26] Aye
    Rep. Jerry Lewis [R, CA-41] Aye
    Rep. Frank LoBiondo [R, NJ-2] Aye
    Rep. Frank Lucas [R, OK-3] Aye
    Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer [R, MO-9] Aye
    Rep. Daniel Lungren [R, CA-3] Aye
    Rep. Michael McCaul [R, TX-10] Aye
    Rep. Thaddeus McCotter [R, MI-11] Aye
    Rep. Patrick Mchenry [R, NC-10] Aye
    Rep. John McHugh [R, NY-23] Aye
    Rep. Howard McKeon [R, CA-25] Aye
    Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers [R, WA-5] Aye
    Rep. Candice Miller [R, MI-10] Aye
    Rep. Tim Murphy [R, PA-18] Aye
    Rep. Sue Myrick [R, NC-9] Aye
    Rep. Erik Paulsen [R, MN-3] Aye
    Rep. Mike Pence [R, IN-6] Aye
    Rep. Thomas Petri [R, WI-6] Aye
    Rep. Joseph Pitts [R, PA-16] Aye
    Rep. Todd Platts [R, PA-19] Aye
    Rep. Adam Putnam [R, FL-12] Aye
    Rep. Dennis Rehberg [R, MT-0] Aye
    Rep. Dave Reichert [R, WA-8] Aye
    Rep. David Roe [R, TN-1] Aye
    Rep. Michael Rogers [R, MI-8] Aye
    Rep. Harold Rogers [R, KY-5] Aye
    Rep. Thomas Rooney [R, FL-16] Aye
    Rep. Peter Roskam [R, IL-6] Aye
    Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen [R, FL-18] Aye
    Rep. Steve Scalise [R, LA-1] Aye
    Rep. Aaron Schock [R, IL-18] Aye
    Rep. John Shimkus [R, IL-19] Aye
    Rep. Christopher Smith [R, NJ-4] Aye
    Rep. Lamar Smith [R, TX-21] Aye
    Rep. Adrian Smith [R, NE-3] Aye
    Rep. Lee Terry [R, NE-2] Aye
    Rep. Glenn Thompson [R, PA-5] Aye
    Rep. Patrick Tiberi [R, OH-12] Aye
    Rep. Michael Turner [R, OH-3] Aye
    Rep. Frederick Upton [R, MI-6] Aye
    Rep. Greg Walden [R, OR-2] Aye
    Rep. Zach Wamp [R, TN-3] Aye
    Rep. Edward Whitfield [R, KY-1] Aye
    Rep. Rob Wittman [R, VA-1] Aye
    Rep. Frank Wolf [R, VA-10] Aye
    Rep. Donald Young [R, AK-0] Aye

  52. #152
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:22 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:54 am, SpeakEasy said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:08 am, Flyoverman said:
    His Aunty has a deportation hearing next week and the White House announced Obama was going to do nothing on her behalf.
    I find that to be downright weird.

    You do not seriously believe NO ONE will intervene? No offense but that would be naive. One of his disciples will take it upon themselves to hook her up. Then he can claim ignorance.(he always could in my opinion).

    I dont know, if true, we’ll have to see how this turns out.

    Several years ago I talked with one of the Secret Service agents that was on the detail where the Bush twins were busted for underage drinking.

    When I asked why he didnt use the power of the Secret Service to save them, he said that President Bush explicitly ordered the Secret Service to never be involved in the twins private matters. The girls had to make their own mistakes and learn their own lessons.

    Then again, that was Bush not BO, so who knows….. lol OK we know whats going to happen…… :grin:

  53. #153
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:23 pm, wighttrasch said:

    yeah; esp. since he told me how to change my screen name…even tho’ I can’t do it right…

  54. #154
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:24 pm, taylork said:

    I fully expect Obama to roll it out as a voluntary service, and then school systems to promote that as their only choice in a mandatory graduation requirement.

    It’s called “service learning” and schools have been doing it long before Obama.

  55. #155
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:26 pm, chapnickname said:

    yeah; esp. since he told me how to change my screen name…even tho’ I can’t do it right…

    Lets try this…

  56. #156
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:27 pm, chapnickname said:

    yeah; esp. since he told me how to change my screen name…even tho’ I can’t do it right…

    Here ya go. It can be done.

  57. #157
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:28 pm, chapnickname said:

    hmmmm…

  58. #158
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:31 pm, RabbidSquirrel_OnTheDL said:

    huh

  59. #159
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:33 pm, chapnickname said:

    see wight.

    It can be done.

  60. #160
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:35 pm, chapnickname said:

    Problem with comments?

  61. #161
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pm, stillontheroad said:

    They will be called the New Young Pioneers. First it will start out in a scouting type atmosphere and progress, thats termed loosely,to a full fledged movement. This will encompass the Youth Camp thing where all, YOUTH, will stay the summer doing various good deeds for the public. Of course the leftist view of the world will be shared with those gullible YOUTH.

  62. #162
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pm, chapnickname said:

    Lets try this again.

  63. #163
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:39 pm, chapoutier said:

    Can’t post comments with nickname?

  64. #164
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:40 pm, tamarah180 said:

    ERINF:

    I think an apology would be in order to CHAP.

    He may be a liberal, but he occasionally thinks for himself. And he’s polite. And sometimes even right, er correct. (Must give the devil his due, eh?) You cannot hold his profession against him.

    MarcoPolo:
    And Obama is funding abortions for his girlfriends again, right?

    Especially the ones he has in Kenya…

  65. #165
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:40 pm, chapnickname said:

    There we go. See.

  66. #166
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:41 pm, tamarah180 said:

    I was having the same problem as wright, CHAP.

  67. #167
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:42 pm, chapoutier said:

    Odd. I used to post on occasion under l’il seige, using the nickname thing, to tweak the original undrseige. But now it appears you can’t do it.

    So I guess the bet is moot.

  68. #168
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:48 pm, FireBlogger said:

    “Creepy” was being kind Michelle.

  69. #169
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:57 pm, T-Bone said:

    In my high school, we had a “careers” class to prepare us for the real world. Perhaps they will now have a “liberalism” class to teach our youth how to vote properly.

    The civilian force can be the hammer to keep our youth and elders on the right path so they don’t stray to the evil republican side that doesn’t care about children, or the environment, or immigrants, or poor people, or people of color, or fairness.

    In fact, I don’t need my beatdown, I can now clearly see that Republicans only care about making a buck, no matter who they step on to get it. Thats all they care about. But wait, they don’t like to kill innocent unborn children. Maybe they aren’t all bad. No wait, anti abortion means no choice for those mothers. I am confused. Maybe this volunteer force can steer me to the correct indoctrination training classes.

    1st period- Fuzzy Math 1+1
    2nd period- Spanglish 10uno
    3rd period- Liberalism 1toall
    Lunch- free to all, paid for by rich
    4th period- Revisionist History 1=2
    5th period- Climate Change Science 98.6
    6th period- Activism 1on1

    Homework- write your own manifesto.

  70. #170
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:58 pm, chapped said:

    It works
    -~Taylork

  71. #171
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:58 pm, chapped said:

    test

  72. #172
    On March 25th, 2009 at 12:59 pm, chapped said:

    works for me

  73. #173
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:00 pm, sonofdy said:
  74. #174
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:04 pm, rightwingrocker said:

    It cannot be denied that socialism/communism/fascism is on the march in the United States.

    God be with us through these tribulations.

    RWR
    http://www.rightwingrocker.com

  75. #175
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:07 pm, emjem24 said:

    Why doesn’t the federal government just bring back slavery and cut out the middle man altogether?

    I don’t care who you are, the government cannot make anybody volunteer or serve the will of the Government. As a teacher, I was skeptical at certain curriculum “mandates” that require high school seniors to “volunteer” to graduate. We graduated kids decades ago who were smarter and knew more about their country who never had to volunteer to graduate.

    This smacks of government intrusion and is anti-American. Next, they’ll make “forced volunteership/servitude” a component of citizenship just to stay in the country.

    This government is outta control. Republicans who still have their spines need to steer clear of this legislation.

  76. #176
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:10 pm, Flyoverman said:

    Congress never considers the Law of Unintended Consequences.

    A military draft is one thing. Manadatory service is another. If participation in this program becomes “mandatory” just wait until the first draftee “community volunteer” gets assualted, murdered or raped.

    All hell will break loose. Mom and dad did not raise their kids to be sent by the State to Detroit and butchered. Wait till you see the children of the priviliged getting “deferments.” Wait till you see what are defferments and what are not. Like buying carbon credits or the Civil War draft the wealthy can buy their way out.

    They make this service mandatory and the backlash will make these Congressman wish they chosen careers at McDonalds.

  77. #177
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:13 pm, emjem24 said:

    …how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.

    Volunteership does not make for a more cohesive, national fabric. These libs act like volunteering will make people feel like they’re on the same “team.” That volunteership can fill in all the gaps created by single parenting, poor parenting, decaying black communities, lack of responsibility, civic greed, and dependency.

    This is just another government boondoggle that will grow outta control. Even JFK would roll in his grave if he saw this and he pushed for people to volunteer… just not on this level.

  78. #178
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:18 pm, thetoysurgeon said:

    Dear Taylork,

    And how many of those brochue givers were armed?

  79. #179
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:24 pm, RetFireman said:

    Rats…If someone could check the filter, I had linked to a Obama Support site and included some quotes from it, forgetting to read them for foul language, and I know there must have been at least one thing that didn’t pass the screen.

    It is a pretty important post, so if it could get cleaned or cleared or whatever, I would appreciate it and will try to be more dilligent in the future about removing all the words.

    I knew I was going to miss one.

    It was from “The Obama Forum” and it listed quotes from such threads as “Post Enemy License Plates Here” meaning anyone who has Republican/anti-tax/anti-Obama stickers or paraphanalia on their cars in order to get a database begun “Just in case” and from the thread “Should We Declare War On White People” with responses such as “The white devil speeks with a forked toungue

    Better start filling those sandbaggs inside your wooden shack Zeke….the Obama Army will show NO MERCY to your ilk ”

    Then again, I included several links to such postings. It might not have been language but the linkage amount that got it tossed.

    At any rate, hopefully Michelle or someone will rescue it and post it for me. I will try to be better about it in the future.

  80. #180
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:26 pm, RetFireman said:

    Oh, and it was in regards to the video that ErinF had posted. If you think that video and the one with the kids singing like Hitler Jungend and Mao’s Kids to their “Glorious Leader”, just follow the above link and prepare to be sick.

  81. #181
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:28 pm, thetoysurgeon said:

    I have anti Obama stuff on my car. I hope they have my license plate…In their vernacular…Bring it!!!!!!!

  82. #182
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:32 pm, taylork said:

    Dear Taylork,

    And how many of those brochue givers were armed?

    Some of the pollworkers in my Philly ‘hood share their home with family members who are out on the street dealing drugs everyday, so I’m guessing it’s possible.

    Besides, I would consider this equal intimidation, if not more intimidation against liberals. Why you ask?
    –liberals are scared of guns, conservatives aren’t (besides of which is was a baton, the functional equivalent of a stick)
    — The area where the black panther are is consists of mostly African Americans or Hispanicsliving in public or subsidized housing, not exactly where you’d find a bunch of conservative voters.

  83. #183
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:36 pm, thetoysurgeon said:

    Here’s what we are to become

    NYT Praises Russia’s “Citizen Volunteers”.

    http://sweetness-light.com/

  84. #184
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:37 pm, emjem24 said:

    chapoutier said:

    She is wrong. There is no “if.” She says the bill contains the provision. It does not.

    The bootlicking here is amazing.

    What is amazing is that we should take your “word” for it when Congress has done nothing so far to instill any trust in their “stewardship.” What is amazing is that you and many Obummer supporters think that the rest of us should give him a chance while he spends this country into bankruptcy. If there was a vote of no confidence in Congress like there was in the Czech Republic this past week, he’d already be gone.

    BTW, many high schools require “volunteerism” whether or not the students want to volunteer. Kids aren’t allowed to think for themselves or decide what’s right for themselves, they’re “directed” to volunteer. As a teacher, I find this suspect since I’m supposed to teach kids how to think and decide what’s right for themselves, not the State.

    If Obummer is so confident in the power of the State, why does he need people to “volunteer” for it and get goodies in return? Why is that? It’s been shown in the past, by MM, that these volunteers have been used for political causes, which contradicts the original purpose of their volunteership.

    Obummer and the federal government is a danger to all of us. You would see that if you could get past this sick belief that what he says at news conferences actually matters. The world is burning and all you have to say is that MM put in a passage you find “untruthful” and “objectionable.”

    When are you going to stand up against this crap as a tax-paying citizen, or have you already given your allegience to one-party socialism? Where are your priorities?

  85. #185
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:41 pm, xler8bmw said:

    #162 The toy surgeon

    Just from experience becareful about anti-obama stickers. I had an Nobama-No Socialism sticker on my window and the 1st vandalism was dog poop rubbed over sticker on the window the 2nd was flour thrown all over my car the 3rd and final was paint thinner thrown all over the car. $4000 worth of damage to repaint the car and it was a brand new BMW!

    Just becareful!!!!!

  86. #186
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:42 pm, OregonGrapeVine said:

    On March 25th, 2009 at 11:35 am, chapoutier said:
    The usual leftist argument. One set of rules for me, another for thee.
    If I write that a very controversial provision is in a bill when it really isn’t, feel free to call me out on it.

    The final version of the bill I read has it in there. And I went to the link you provided, and it gave me a search error. So please, CHAP, prove to me they removed the amendment by directly linking to the version that passed the House and show us where it was amended and/or removed.

  87. #187
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:43 pm, tiredofit08 said:

    twilight zone “To Serve Man”…that was a great episode…my kids in college says dear leader can go pound sand….

  88. #188
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:48 pm, chapoutier said:

    What is amazing is that we should take your “word” for it when Congress has done nothing so far to instill any trust in their “stewardship.”

    Don’t take my word for it. Go to thomas.loc.gov, search for “hr 1388″ and look at the text of the bill as passed. I would link to it directly but it doesn’t allow you to, as the search “runs out” or something.

    Also, feel free to look at the version the Senate is considering.

    You would see that if you could get past this sick belief that what he says at news conferences actually matters.

    Where did I say anything Obama said at the press conference actually mattered?

    The world is burning and all you have to say is that MM put in a passage you find “untruthful” and “objectionable.”

    “I find” nothing. It is objectively false, and a very substantive error. I am not picking nits here. She is getting people all frothed up (the evidence for that is here) about a section of a bill that is not actually in the bill.

    BTW, many high schools require “volunteerism” whether or not the students want to volunteer.

    I am well aware. I had to do it to graduate. I found it distasteful.

  89. #189
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:49 pm, thetoysurgeon said:

    Dear xler8bmw,

    thanks for the advice..but i am not scared. there is a 45 hp with their name on it if they mess with me…We cannot cower from them and their distain of the law. Thats what they want to do. It will take obtuse laws to curb law into their favor. I live in the south, one of the last conservative strongholds. I will fight to the last breath.

  90. #190
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm, emjem24 said:

    xler8bmw said:
    #162 The toy surgeon

    Just from experience becareful about anti-obama stickers. I had an Nobama-No Socialism sticker on my window and the 1st vandalism was dog poop rubbed over sticker on the window the 2nd was flour thrown all over my car the 3rd and final was paint thinner thrown all over the car. $4000 worth of damage to repaint the car and it was a brand new BMW!

    Just becareful!!!!!

    Isn’t it amazing how many intolerant, immature idiots posing as adults are out there ready to tell the rest of us that we live “under their rule” now? This is no longer the land of the free as people like Chaps think. There are many rational Dems out there who would never pull such stunts yet when you tell them what the far-left fanatics do to shut up free speech, it’s all crickets.

    While I love Colorado Springs (my husband was assigned there for 3 years) it isn’t the accepting bastion that many think it is. I worked for one of the public school districts as a sub and I had a yellow ribbon magnet on the back of my SUV to support the troops. It constantly got stolen, either by students, parents, or teachers. I’m not sure who. I went through at least 3 of those ribbons.

    There’s just as much intolerance for military support as there is for anti-Obummer stickers. Ironic, isn’t it?

  91. #191
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm, RetFireman said:

    “IT’S A COOKBOOK!!!! A COOOOOOKBOOOOOOK!!”

  92. #192
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:58 pm, thetoysurgeon said:

    Lets face it liberals,, you are not going to convince me of anything different, just like we cannot convince you of your blind faith in Obama and the double talk and smoke and mirrors he presents. He can disguise these social programs with meaningful titles, but a spade is still a spade. Obviously most of you don’t know diddly about history with your “gimme” mindset.. Its a waste of time to explain points to either side. Why you come to this site to stir it up is besides me, unless you are bored sitting with nothing to do in your crib. I wouldn’t want to even comment on those MSM sites. I would get banned anyway. Interesting that an anti-obama conservative gets banned for speaking his mind on a liberal website, but here on MM you liberals go unmolested. Hmmm. might have something here. Maybe we believe in the first amendment and you don’t.

  93. #193
    On March 25th, 2009 at 1:58 pm, chapoutier said:

    The final version of the bill I read has it in there. And I went to the link you provided, and it gave me a search error. So please, CHAP, prove to me they removed the amendment by directly linking to the version that passed the House and show us where it was amended and/or removed.

    As I said, the Thomas site (which is the one you should refer to because it is the official government site for legislation) doesn’t seem to allow it because the search times out. But go to thomas.loc.gov. Search under bill number hr 1388. Then click on “Text of Legislation.” Then click on version 3 of the bill, which is the engrossed and voted upon version of the bill. Then search to your heart’s desire for that language. It is not there.

  94. #194
    On March 25th, 2009 at 2:02 pm, RetFireman said:

    The thing that makes a good volunteer is that the person doing it WANTS to volunteer. When you force people into community service and public service, what you get is a large section of the population that is incredibly resentful and will do a piss-poor job of whatever it is they are doing, as well as making everyone else…especially those that actually DIS volunteer and who want to be there, completely miserable.

    There has already been an amazing amount of television commercials telling people to volunteer for all sorts of Obama’s pet projects. The big question is will they actually read this bill prior to the forced vote it is sure to go through and just how long before the compulsory “volunteerism” begins?

    You can be damn sure that it will be a cold day in hell before I spend one second of my life volunteering for anything that Obama or his cronies find necessary.

    Re-education camps will be filled with the same people I find to be wonderful people and true Americans, so it won’t be bad at all.

  95. #195
    On March 25th, 2009 at 2:12 pm, emjem24 said:

    chapoutier said:

    Don’t take my word for it. Go to thomas.loc.gov, search for “hr 1388″ and look at the text of the bill as passed. I would link to it directly but it doesn’t allow you to, as the search “runs out” or something.

    Also, feel free to look at the version the Senate is considering.

    Is it or is it not in the final version? Which one is it?

    This legislation is FORCING volunteerism, creating new federally-backed organizations accountable to no one, without restrictions, where these volunteers can be put to work doing ANYTHING that’s not related to the original goal of the volunteership. Furthermore, when you angle a return for volunteership, it’s no longer volunteership… it’s unpaid work with benefits.

    Why does the federal government need to direct money in this manner? Why are they discouraging charity? Something doesn’t fit.

    Where did I say anything Obama said at the press conference actually mattered?

    I was making a larger point that this man is a media creation and that he’s making all of these changes in a time where our economy is shakey and unstable. He’s using his Congressional cronies to push this legislation.

    “I find” nothing. It is objectively false, and a very substantive error. I am not picking nits here. She is getting people all frothed up (the evidence for that is here) about a section of a bill that is not actually in the bill.

    Please give us a REAL link to what is ACTUALLY in the bill. People are all “frothed up” over a bill that is directing our tax dollars to volunteer groups where the work is neither “voluntary” or it’s for political purposes to perpetuate a larger federal government. It isn’t one section of the bill people have problems with, it’s the ENTIRE bill.

    The federal government has already shown that they’re pushing forward legislation that is intruding into the private lives of Americans in an unprecedented manner. It’s just not adults’ lives, it’s kids. Do you not have a problem with the inconsistencies that exist in this bill?

    I am well aware. I had to do it to graduate. I found it distasteful.

    Yet you don’t find it “distasteful” that the federal government is now directing our tax dollars toward different volunteering opportunities that will either a) perpetuate a larger government b) have readily accessible political workers c) giving incentives for volunteership for certain segments of the population that wouldn’t go to other segments. Then Obummer is going to do away with the charitable tax deducation which will force people to reexamine their giving. Charities will lose but federally-subsidized volunteer rackets will gain.

    This bill has so many inherent inconsistencies and problems that I’m shocked you haven’t pointed them out. If you don’t like volunteering then why do you support forcing others (even kids) to volunteer, attach conditions to it, or limit how much the average American citizen can give?

  96. #196
    On March 25th, 2009 at 2:15 pm, ArizonaNeanderthal said:

    As we did not tolerate King George’s press gangs let us not tolerate Obama’s

    WHAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS MEANT BY
    THE “MILITIA”

    George Mason: “I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people.” (Elliott, Debates, 425-426)

    Richard Henry Lee: “A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves…and include all men capable of bearing arms.” (Additional letters from the Federal Farmer, at 169, 1788)

    James Madison: “A WELL REGULATED militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.” (1st Annals of Congress, at 434, June 8th 1789,

    On the Right to Keep and Bare Arms:

    George Washington: “Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people’s liberty teeth (and) keystone… the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable… more than 99% of them [guns] by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference [crime]. When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour.” (Address to 1st session of Congress)

    To me these are more inspirational, moving and honest then that Hopey Changy thing.

  97. #197
    On March 25th, 2009 at 2:19 pm, chapoutier said:

    Is it or is it not in the final version? Which one is it?

    It is the one that the House passed.

    Please give us a REAL link to what is ACTUALLY in the bill. People are all “frothed up” over a bill that is directing our tax dollars to volunteer groups where the work is neither “voluntary” or it’s for political purposes to perpetuate a larger federal government. It isn’t one section of the bill people have problems with, it’s the ENTIRE bill.

    See above to get to the text. That is as much as I can do. You can do a little leg work too, and MM certainly should have before writing the article.

    As for the substance of the bill, I don’t know. I don’t believe I said one word as to the merits of it. But I am not going to stand here and say there is one word in it that forces volunteerism. That is a lie. And unsubstantiated moaning about “forced service” does indeed seem to be the main frothmaker.

  98. #198
    On March 25th, 2009 at 2:21 pm, powerpro said:

    My idiot Congressman Roe voted for this crap.

    What can we do when we find out about this stuff a week too late?

  99. #199
    On March 25th, 2009 at 2:31 pm, chapoutier said:

    Hilarious. Now all the comments people tried to post under nicknames have popped up.

    Well, I guess the bet can be back on now.

  100. #200
    On March 25th, 2009 at 2:50 pm, rambler said:

    Nothing but programing, re-education and assimilation! Free thinkers need not apply.

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