Another day, another Obama flip-flop
More Obama backtracking that will not surprise you, via ABC News:
President Obama suggested today that it remained a possibility that the Justice Department might bring charges against officials of the Bush administration who devised harsh interrogation policies that some see as torture.
He also suggested that if there is any sort of investigation into these past policies and practices, he would be more inclined to support an independent commission outside the typical congressional hearing process.
Both statements represented breaks from previous White House statements on the matter.
Calling the Bush-era memos providing legal justifications for enhanced interrogation methods “reflected us losing our moral bearings,” the president said that he did not think it was “appropriate” to prosecute those CIA officers who “carried out some of these operations within the four corners of the legal opinions or guidance that had been provided by the White House.”
But in clear change from language he and members of his administration have used in the past, the president said that “with respect to those who formulated those legal decisions, I would say that is going to be more of a decision for the Attorney General within the parameters of various laws and I don’t want to prejudge that. I think that there are a host of very complicated issues involved there.”
Just yesterday, asked by a reporter as to why the administration was not seeking to “hold accountable” Bush administration lawyers who may have “twisted the law,” White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said, “the President is focused on looking forward, that’s why.”
The president made his remarks in the Oval Office during a joint press availability with His Majesty King Abdullah II Ibn Al Hussein.
Marc Thiessen points out the inconvenient truth: The CIA’s questioning worked.
Specifically, interrogation with enhanced techniques “led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the ‘Second Wave,’ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.” KSM later acknowledged before a military commission at Guantanamo Bay that the target was the Library Tower, the tallest building on the West Coast. The memo explains that “information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemmah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the ‘Second Wave.’ ” In other words, without enhanced interrogations, there could be a hole in the ground in Los Angeles to match the one in New York.
The memo notes that “[i]nterrogations of [Abu] Zubaydah — again, once enhanced techniques were employed — furnished detailed information regarding al Qaeda’s ‘organizational structure, key operatives, and modus operandi’ and identified KSM as the mastermind of the September 11 attacks.” This information helped the intelligence community plan the operation that captured KSM. It went on: “Zubaydah and KSM also supplied important information about al-Zarqawi and his network” in Iraq, which helped our operations against al-Qaeda in that country.
All this confirms information that I and others have described publicly. But just as the memo begins to describe previously undisclosed details of what enhanced interrogations achieved, the page is almost entirely blacked out. The Obama administration released pages of unredacted classified information on the techniques used to question captured terrorist leaders but pulled out its black marker when it came to the details of what those interrogations achieved.
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Not surprised Michelle. I don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
If this happens, it will confirm our descent into the chaotic sewer and jungle of third world-nation status.
Yah. A liberal determining morality. That’s just wrong on so many levels.
I’m glad that Obama is showing his true colors and now making those who defend and support him look to be the fools they were and are. Of course, HE won’t do anything, but, gosh, let’s let the AG do it and he’ll “understand”. Stinking coward that Obama is, we conservatives detected his smell but were called racists. Well, this man stinks.
White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said, “the President is focused on looking forward, that’s why.”
I’m not quite sure where the President is looking, but it sure as heck is not forward! Seems to be in the “Oval Orifice”.
I’m sorry. I thought it read: Another day, another Obama flim-flam. My bad.
Obama IS the flip-flop king of all presidents. It is a joke in our household as to what “surprise” will hit the news next. Oh, and speaking of surprises, why is it that the president can order the declassification and release of Top Secret sensitive national security damaging material. Back in the military we had a name for this: TREASON.
But, they don’t care about that. All they care about is putting George Bush in prison. If another 3,000 Americans need to die, then so be it.
Oh, come on, this isn’t a flip flop. It’s more of a voting present or issuing a decisive “maybe.”
What always gets lost with lefties, the prosecution to come of Obama for dereliction of duty.
Next terror hit is his and all his. Killing the teenage terrorist, write that one down, for later prosecution.
So when do we get to see the results memos? We should pound on this until the results memos are made public.
My guess is naive one ZERO didn’t like today’s poll saying big government is the biggest problem facing America.
This guy is more like Chavez and Castro than anyone realizes.
So now a “higher moral standard” is defined, that would allow 100,000 people to die from a bomb rather than use harsh interrogation techniques to find out about it ahead of time and save innocent lives.
0bama and the people who voted for him have a lot to answer for. And I hope we can survive until 2010 and can start to take our Country back.
The thing is the more that Obama and the AG prosecute things of this nature the more people will be less likely ot stick their necks out and make decisions on anything leading to utter chaos and nothing ever getting done. At this rate Al Qaeda will not have to strike America again their job will be done for them.
I saw on Fox a few minutes ago a reporter was showing an email from moveon.org to get 250,000 signatures sent to holder to get these people. I sure am having a hard time having anything nice to say about bho and his bunch.
L
Sounds to me like a direct
responsethreat to what Dick Cheney had to say yesterday about the release of tactics, but not releasing the details of what the interrogations gleaned.From Ace today…
Cheney: “One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn’t put out the memos that showed the success of the effort. And there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified.”
“I formally asked that they be declassified now. I haven’t announced this up until now, I haven’t talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.”
You decide.
Wait a sec. When dealing with Chavez he doesn’t want to look to the past, he wants to look to the future.
But with Republicans it’s all about revisiting the past.
Wait….need a bucket…PHHHHLAAAGHHHH!!!!
We will get to see the results memos when Obama’a staff gets done deciding which ones have to be shredded and “lost”.
Right!
Pouring water in a terrorists nose saved thousands of lives. How WILL I ever sleep tonight knowing that?
This guy is the worst. He’s a flim-flammin’, flip-floppin’, lyin’ dog. I hope what I’ve been reading is true: that Real Americans are starting to wake up and get involved. That we are now realizing the time to begin making our stand is NOW. This empty-suited puppet has been placing more traitor bombs in our government than ever thought possible. Between Tax-cheat timmy, the DHS boob, Holder, Rombo, Rosa Brooks, et al. There are more socialist creeps crawling the halls of power than we need – ever. Take notice.
I have always wondered why Bush did not issue a blanket pardon for any CIA employee and all of those in justice and the white house that had anything to do with the war on terror before he left office. He left these guys open to twist in the wind, just like he did Scooter Libby. That so disappoints me.
If I sign up for a re-education camp now, do I get the location of my choice?
He spent 20 years in the Church of GD America, and the libs still don’t see it. Amazing.
Let’s see, Frat Prank – hold some guy’s head in a toilet = crime and people must be punished, while murdering innocent people, using women as slaves = I bow to you, and fist bump with you…
What a surprise, Ole Blue Lips comes out (not a pun – I know it could be but I am trying to be nice) and says he isn’t going to prosecute and the ultra left weenies and his “handlers” in the House screamed like pigs..
The next day – Hey, I guess we just might.. If I worked for CIA, I would quit or go find a nice coffee shop and sit around doing nothing. Real work gets you prosecuted!
Further proof that he is Nancy’s Beeaatch.
Thanks Mr. Blue Lips – We officially have one hand tied behind our backs.
I would suggest that Mr. Obama consult history. In 1969 or so when the North Vietnamese thought they had won the propaganda campaign here, they publically stated they were considering putting captured U.S. pilots on trial as war criminals.
After seeing the response from the American people, even those who opposed the Vietnam War, they dropped that thought like a hot rock.
If Obama, who wants wounded veterans to pay for their own rehab attempts to charge U.S. military and non-military personnel for essentially obeying orders that the U.S. justice Department said were legal, then as far as I am concerned, the gloves are off.
But our fearless leader, wakes up every morning, trying to figure out ways to keep Amerika safe, and goes to bed every night, worrying about whether or not he has kept Amerika safe…his words, today.
He is seldom in his office, always on the move, has weekly drinking parties with his homeboys and girls, travels the world, gives speeches prepared by his cadre of ideologues…whew!!! Work is indeed tough for the One Who Would Keep Us Safe! But, when does he actually do anything other than speak, party, and travel?
If the Left wasn’t so anti-religion, I would expect any day now to see the House or Senate draft a bill proposing Obama be declared a living Deity. Does he own a horse?
From the joke column SLICE OF WRY:
Barack Obama was a liar; is a liar; and from all indications, will continue to be a liar. He is drifting because he has no moral barometer with which to guide him.
Anyone wonder why Napolitano and Obama feel right wing extremists may become more animated in the coming months and years? It’s because they know the policies they are setting in place are totally antithetical to conservative, American values. They know they are pushing the Right and that they’ll eventually push back.
First the propaganda. Then they take control of business and the banks. And while this is going on, disarm the nation and silence the opposition. This will continue until it is stopped. If it is stopped.
As for foreign policy, if I were China, now is the time to take over Taiwan. Something they’ve wanted for years. Obama is weak and ineffectual and won’t do a thing about it. N. Korea is still trembling at his threats. Shoot, almost any country that wants to take advantage of a weakend United States will probably find the timing is perfect.
National Security is secondary to politics for Team Obama.
The Harman thing, leaking NSA intercepts. Everyone jumped on Harman for dealing with AIPAC, but who do you suppose authorized leaking the intercepts.
Obama, Holder or Emmanuel.
Why, because Harman was one of the few Dems who supported Bush’s War on Terror.
About as soon has we see an actual birth certificate, is my guess.
Remember, these guys SAY the OPPOSITE of what they really think. e.g. “I want transparency!” “I will not raise taxes on those making less than
$300,000er,$250,000umm,$200,000uhh,$150,000, that is, uh-h $250,000 a year.”Any Wednesday night…
Flyoverman
Roger that!, the gloves are off and the bandoleers are full….figuratively speaking, I’m sure I meant.
As for the raising taxes non-promise, as I understand it taxes did go down but, am I wrong or did Social Security witholding go up? If that’s not a tax, what is it?
It is quite ironic, that here is a man, who without equivocation, states he is against “harsh” interrogation techniques used against the (worst of the worst) terrorists aligned against us, but has no problem, apparently, using Predator drones to attack “suspected” terrorist huts in Pakistan, blowing up those inside, which normally include the bads guys wives and children.
MNUSMCDavid,
Yep, it becomes one team, one fight.
A) A voluntary contribution, or
B) An investment.
It’s permitted to lie to Infidels.
Here is another confused Obama follower that needs to get a clue:
>
This makes me nervous. Criminal prosecutions of administration officials for conduct during the course of the war, or Congressional hearings with subpoena power to try to force people in the Bush Administration to testify about closed discussions on national security.
Why?
If Obama was planning to allow free elections, and possibly lose the White House in either 2012 or 2016 to the GOP, he would not want to set the precedent of criminal prosecutions of political and national security decisions, or the right for Executive Branch decisions to be made with an expectation of confidentiality being discarded.
The more Team Obama is willing to punish Bush and his administration, and expose them to press releases of their internal discussions, and allow hearings and criminal prosecution, the more likely it is that Team Obama intends to never cede power again, and to become the permanent ruling party by any means neccesary.
If he does I would imagine it to look much like the horses the Nazgul ride in Lord of the Rings…
It’s a bailout for the baby boomers.
Hey this is off topic, but Huge:
Sen. Feinstein’s Husband Cashes In on Crisis
California senator sought $25 billion for a government agency that had awarded her husband’s real estate firm a lucrative contract to sell foreclosed properties.
This is despicable. We reassure the CIA case officers we’re not going to prosecute them, but we threaten DOJ lawyers for giving legal opinions???? What’s THAT all about?
A liberal comprimise…lol
Obama says “no one is above the law” and will prosecute those who break it. I’d start with all of his politcal appointees to his administration who all seem to be “above the law” and then the illegal immigrants – all 12 million plus.
Oh how foolish. He meant selective prosecution because some laws are more important than others. Especially when they serve a political end.
Good thing all of the members of the Supreme Court who voted with the majority in Dred Scott vs. Sanford case are dead.
Interrogator: We know you know something. Tell us what you know.
Detainee:
Interrogator: Fess up, man. Give us some information, and we promise to go easy on you.
Detainee:
Interrogator: Come on. There has to be something you can tell us.
Detainee:
Interrogator: Do you want something to drink? Maybe you’re thirsty. If you told us something, I’ll make sure you get it right away. Whadda you say?
Detainee: May Allah shower a slow, painful death upon you and the rest of you vile American pigs.
Interrogator: Come, now, that wasn’t very nice. Gosh, just what are we going to do with you?
Detainee: (makes the sign of his thumb slashing across his throat)
Interrogator: My word! No, no, we won’t do anything of the sort.
Detainee: (rolls eyes)
Interrogator: One last time. Tell us what you know.
Detainee:
Detainee:
Detainee:
Interrogator: Aw. Come. Oooon. Please?
Detainee:
Interrogator: (sighs) Well, I give up. You’re just too good. My hat’s off to you. Guard? Let him go. We’ll arrange for him to get a place in Minneapolis or something.
Detainee: (grins)
I want hearings too….why hasn’t Pelosi ever been arrested for employing illegals in her hotels and wineries ala Napolitano’s recent drive on immigration policy? Why haven’t they investigated Feinstein for the story referenced on #43′s post? Why do we have criminals that knowingly didn’t pay taxes in positions of power? The list is long, but if they get it going now they might be able to finish before ‘Bambi’s kids get out of college.
Ok, so by the President’s standards, we should start documenting his administration’s political decisions, and prosecute them when they are out of office? First, for revealing state secrets, second for not performing the things he swore to in his oath of office, including “Defend and Preserve” the Constitution. What more should we add to the list?
Did he remember to bow?
A new Obama lie…
“…that’s why I’ve discontinued these practices.” (A close paraphrase, if not a quote)
The truth is that they were discontinued long, long ago.
It’s all about THE ONE…
He went on to say, “The only true punishment for these guilty infidels would be the slaughtering of them and their families, by cutting their throats with a dull knife. That will ensure our place on the moral high ground.”
OK, I made that last part up, but doesn’t it seem strange to anyone else that we are worried about finding the high ground in the open sewer that is radical Islam?
No. Do you not understand, you will not have any choice, all choices and decisions will be made for you. You will no longer have the burden of responsibility nor will you have to think…except how you may serve the state and TEH EXALTED ONE.
From Thiessen link -
Very well, why were we protected from this information? What happened in the trials of Isomuddin and Islamiyah Cell members? Before ‘Tree Bark’ and others say that we were told about this by the Bush Administration, I don’t recall ever hearing so-and-so was captured and tried, just the more amorphous, ‘we are getting results.’
The discussion about what works, and doesn’t work, on the GWOT has been subject of a great deal of discussion. I would like to expand the arguement to include, what works and doesn’t work in maintaining the support of the American people.
The Bush Administration was quick to point out how those from Lackawana, NY, knucklehead Haitian immigrants from Florida, Pizza delivery guys from NJ, and paint ballers from Virginia, were captured, prosecuted and sentenced in the GWOT. Notably absent were similar details about other successes abroad, as a result of the enhanced interrogations.
My belief is that had greater detail been provided about the successes abroad there would have been greater support here at home. And, less skepticism and challeges to what was being done. Simple put, ‘Trust Me’ loses it’s luster after a while.
Listen, the only good terrorist is a dead terrorist. A distant second is a locked up terrorist.
The American people can be trusted with a little more detail, without compromising the sources and covert actions that resulted in the capture of terrorists abroad.
Ditto for the re-unification of the Korean peninsula, with the takeover of ROK.
Perhaps CIA case officers are the people who work down in the trenches and just might overlook another “2nd wave” L.A attack that could happen somewhere else.
Its safer to go after paper pushers.
You never want to piss off the people who handle your food or your luggage.
Speaking of an L.A. attack, on second thought maybe they should have let that occur after all. Everyone would have thought it was a movie set not a real event.
Okay, Obozo: YOU set the precedent, so no crying when the next Republican administration comes after your ass and all your corrupt toadies. Wonder if there’s enough room in Leavenworth for all y’all?
Question about waterboarding.
The Washington Post claims the US prosecuted (and convicted) Japanese soldiers as war criminals for using waterboarding techniques on US POW’s during WWII. Is that true? If yes, was it somehow different from what we were doing?
PS – I don’t think individuals should be prosecuted for following official SOP, just wondering what the real scoop is on how our actions differ from what the Japanese did in WWII.
What goes around comes around, BHO. Do you want the next president raking all of your muck?
What I wonder and am very concerned about, is whether this country will survive his, and his corrupt supporters, government in 4 years. The U.S. will not be the same; I’m sure.
When your World and Economic policies are not going well, then DEFLECT DEFLECT from the real issues.
More a** kissing of the muslim
terroristsworld, more hating America from D.C.RE #61
There will be NO next president.
I haven’t read all of the comments, so apologies for duplication, but could this be another way to focus the public on this issue rather than the socialization of Amerikka or the complete incompetence with foreign affairs and his dismal performance as CIC of the military during a hostage crises.
If the people are talking about the evil Bush administration torturing defenseless muslims, they won’t be talking about the EPA doing an end run on global warming, or OB yucking it up with Chavez and Ortega. Or the latest speculation that he refused to allow a SEAL team to the Bainbridge for 36 hours, or that a couple of opportunities to rescue Capt Phillips were missed due to restricted Rules of Engagement.
Like the way a magician distracts you with one hand, while the other palms the coin.
Welcome to the newest Banana Republic!
The fact that the President, and by extension, the agencies under him, sought both legal counsel and eventually the approval and specific guidelines from Congress itself (which they provided) is prima facie evidence that they acted in a prudent and rational manner, and therefore should be immune from prosecution.
Aside from the legalities, this is an extremely dangerous departure from the way democracies transition from one administration to another. Namely, unlike dictatorships or totalitarian governments, the incoming government does NOT put the outgoing government on trial for simply differences on POLICIES. If Obama sets a precedent that one can criminalize one’s political opposition, that precedent assures, potentially violent upheavals whenever the government changes. This will assure chaos.
Question: Is that the real objective of this threat?
The memos explained the legal authority for the Bush policy.
Just because Obama changes the policy does not change the fact that the Bush policy was, and still is, legal as explained in the memos.
I want to see the names of the senators that were privy to disclosure and met with Pres. Bush, and notes from those meetings released. We’re dealing with collective amnesia, and it’s time their constituents knew these morons are way past their buy/sell dating.
What do you do when you can’t lead the country you were elected to lead? You create a circus size distraction with the help of the Justice Department.
President Obama is apparently upset that former President Bush kept this country safe. This is the reaction not of an American but of somebody who hates America and unfortunately he is our President.
CLICK HERE TO SEE THE NEW “LOOSE LIPS” POSTER, EMAIL IT TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS WITH THE LINK!
Agreed.
Exactly the reason I made my point in #2 above:
Good point.
That would not surprise me in the least.
Obama has no moral authority to talk about ‘losing our moral bearings.” many of his first acts as TOTUS were to kill more children via change in Mexico City policy, etc. He just doesn’t get it.
a coup or revolt, looking like one or the other?
Same day we get to see The Annointed One’s real birth certificate!
After watching Glenn Beck tonight discussing this with Meagan and the Judge,
I have come to the conclusion that I would like to see Bush and the administration prosecuted – for no other reason than for what happened to Ramos and Compean.
Let the chips fall where they may
No one will ever be charged for anything they’re talking about. This is just another distraction concocted by the Obama Administration to distract people from the real issues.
Never seen a more dishonest politician than Obama. One would wonder however, what the motivation is on this new witchhunt. It certainly could be distraction… after all the American public is beginning to wake up to his agenda. Regardless of their spin on how Obama didn’t pay much attention to them, they must have given pause to the hole in the wall gang in the White House. Surely they’ve discussed how to deal with them.
It could also be he wants to intimidate those people in the previous administration that might speak out against his policies. Sicking the Attorney General on anyone might cause them to step out of the limelight.
To use lawsuits to silence your enemies is corrupt intimitadation utilized fully by the likes of Capone and his friends. After all, they are all from Chicago and that’s their mode of operation.
Obama has done NOTHING positive for this country. Why should we ever believe anything that spills from his gums, or bother to look for anything positive? He is wrong, corrupt and immoral…and so are those like him in Congress. This hope & change charade is killing us.
It’s unfortunate that Obama has sent mixed signals (flip flopped) on this issue. Still, here’s hoping senior Bush officials who violated the law are punished. Of course, that’s after a fair trial to determine their (obvious) guilt or (impossible) innocence. After all, weren’t they captured on the battlefield?
and tell me why should anyone want to protect this country anymore? they’ll just be prosecuted for some ‘war crime’
What Bush did was the right thing to do. we are at war with a ruthless enemy. you libs are just insane.
and moron, there were no laws broken. sorry to burst your bubble.
the US will get no more usefull intelligence.
People will die because of this…I just hope most of them are Obama supporters…let the chickens come home to roost!!
The precedent it would set would most certainly backfire on the Democrat Party.
It is just a smokescreen to hide the nationalization of the country and the humongous deficit Brutha Obama is creating.
LGM’s a GOP plant, folks; don’t let his misleading bluster draw you out.
That we’re still here – safe, healthy, and relatively happy – is testament enough to the outstanding job President Bush and his administration did in keeping us that way and ensures that should Democrats pursue this farce, the people will remember it come election time w/ a Republican sweep!
yes they were, but they wear no uniform..they are by definition SPIES and SABOTEURS…and we should do as roosevelt did to the german spies who landed in NJ…shoot them…after we get what we can from them..
they are NOT POWs.
This is payback for the Clinton impeachment proceedings. What if Bush Admin. wanted to investigate Clintons, Holder, and others for pardoning terrorists. How about ol Janet Reno and Waco. Lame stream media would have gone bonzo—but silent now. This is just another one of Odumbo’a lies–but that’s ok–he’s got so much personality–puke.
I highly recommend you read Marc Thiessen’s article in WaPo. It will help clear your mind of the Leftist confusion you’ve read in the NYT and from MoveOn.
Fair enough.
1. U.S. Soldiers were uniformed members of a country’s military and were captured on the field of battle. This means that they are under the protection of the Geneva Convention. The people who underwent interrogation through our government do not have similar protection.
2. The prisoners of the U.S. are treated far more humanely than the Japanese treated U.S. prisoners. Regular meals, religious services and medical care are provided to them.
3. When interrogated, there was a doctor present for these people to make sure that they did not die. The Japanese did not extend similar courtesy.
4. The waterboarding we employ is the exact same method used on our own servicepeople who undergo SERE training. I doubt that we would do anything like this to our military personnel if it was going to kill them or do lasting harm.