Andrew Lloyd Webber: Going Galt in Britain?

By Michelle Malkin  •  April 27, 2009 09:57 AM

A powerful manifesto from renowned composer Andrew Lloyd Webber, who fears an exodus of talent from Britain in response to high taxes:

I am 61 years old. I have lived and worked in Britain all my life. Not even in the dark days of penal Labour taxation in the Seventies did I have any intention of leaving the country of my birth.

Despite a rumour put around some years back, I have never contemplated leaving Britain for tax reasons. But in the 40-plus years I have been lucky enough to work here, I’ve seen a bit. So I must draw your attention to what is really proposed in this Budget.

Here’s the truth. The proposed top rate of income tax is not 50 per cent. It is 50 per cent plus 1.5 per cent national insurance paid by employees plus 13.3 per cent paid by employers. That’s not 50 per cent. Two years from now, Britain will have the highest tax rate on earned income of any developed country.

I write this article because I fear the inevitable exodus of the talent that can dig us out of the hole we find ourselves in. It is inevitable, given that other countries are bidding for entrepreneurs. The Government must modify its proposals.

Time for a U.K. Tea Party movement!

Yes, it’s a strange spectacle. Liberty Belle says: What goes around comes around.

***

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Posted in: Going Galt,Tea Party

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Comments


  1. #1
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:05 am, ArizonaNeanderthal said:

    Time for a U.K. Tea Party movement!

    Hopefully-or perhaps we could trade our socialist/progressive/Leftist for both of their conservatives?

    It seems we are always following whatever really dumb idea the Brits and their Canadian cousins do. Time for them to follow our lead on SOMETHING. Go Galt!

  2. #2
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:10 am, happyscrapper said:

    Let’s hope more famous people will start speaking out. For some reason, their opinions seem to be heard better than those of the average citizen.

  3. #3
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:14 am, MNUSMCDavid said:

    ” Don’t cry for me, United Kingdom” sung to the tune ” Don’t cry for me, Argentina”….. sorry , I had to do that. Monday , you know.

  4. #4
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:17 am, jjmurphy said:

    Hopefully-or perhaps we could trade our socialist/progressive/Leftist for both of their conservatives?

    AZ – That is a great idea! One for one trade of our liberals for their true freedom-lovers. Heck, how about 10 hard working freedom-lovers for each of our liberals. We’ll still be WAY ahead! Then all the liberals can pass all their wonderful collectivist ideas and live in their sure-to-be liberal utopia.

    Back here in the USA we’ll just have to try and survive without them. How shall we ever do it?

  5. #5
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:18 am, Ragspierre said:

    I write this article because I fear the inevitable exodus of the talent that can dig us out of the hole we find ourselves in. It is inevitable, given that other countries are bidding for entrepreneurs.

    Wow. The guy has his head screwed on straight…in this instance, anyhow.

    Do dependant-class Americans think that smart people with money can’t find other places to put it?

    It’s happening now, and the flight of capital…money and brains…will get stronger. As it does, what do you think will happen to the REAL deficit numbers…???

  6. #6
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:19 am, rblakeh said:

    “Hopefully-or perhaps we could trade our socialist/progressive/Leftist for both of their conservatives?”

    The fact that these Leftists don’t just get together and start their own country shows just how much they rely on the hardworking, productive people. Yet they condemn them for their virtues.

  7. #7
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:24 am, Ragspierre said:

    The fact that these Leftists don’t just get together and start their own country shows just how much they rely on the hardworking, productive people. Yet they condemn them for their virtues.

    Which is the genius of going Galt. If you understand that the Beast has to have your money, you starve it by denying it your production. Just refuse to be eaten.

  8. #8
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:27 am, JamieD said:

    The fact that these Leftists don’t just get together and start their own country shows just how much they rely on the hardworking, productive people.

    Case in point: California’s economy.

  9. #9
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:27 am, happyscrapper said:

    I am waiting to see how NYC does after Rush Limbaugh removes his tax payments. And Donald Trump is threatening to leave too. Unfortunately, The Donald is mostly all talk and probably won’t leave. He is really quite a jerk in many ways! And the thinks Obama is doing a really good job! Seriously, he does! Another libtard billionaire.

  10. #10
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:36 am, BlameAmericaLast said:

    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:10 am, happyscrapper said:

    Let’s hope more famous people will start speaking out. For some reason, their opinions seem to be heard better than those of the average citizen.

    Already starting — but this liberal columnist from the UK doesn’t like it one bit.

    So poor James Blunt might become a tax exile. Pass the Kleenex

  11. #11
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:41 am, GladzKravtz said:

    OK Mr. Weber, you wrote the article.
    How about a play? Use your talent and your entertainment industry to expose this truth!

  12. #12
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:44 am, Rogue Cheddar said:

    They had their chance at liberty back in 1776. They chose poorly.

  13. #13
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:45 am, Ragspierre said:

    Now you can vote Labour, Tory or Monster Raving Loony as it’s all much of a muchness.

    At least it’s rumoured that James Blunt may become a tax exile, so there’s an achievement.

    As for these super-rich people who may now flee the country because they have no social conscience whatsoever, I fail to see them as a great loss.

    Ah, but she WILL…she WILL (spoken in the manner of Yoda).

    Does that sound familiar…the part about it not mattering for who you vote?

    Same same, and for the same structural reasons as here.

  14. #14
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:47 am, Truesoldier said:

    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:27 am, JamieD said:
    The fact that these Leftists don’t just get together and start their own country shows just how much they rely on the hardworking, productive people.
    Case in point: California’s economy.

    Or for that matter Washington State. Between the unions and the state government, Boeing is on the verge of pulling completely out of this state. That will not only affect the jobs directly at Boeing, but also at all the small businesses nearby that boeing contracts out to for some of its work. Talk about thousands of jobs gone if that happens.

  15. #15
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:51 am, malkin_fan said:

    If I made a billion dollars a year I would NEVER let any country take 50% of MY earnings.

  16. #16
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:55 am, Ragspierre said:

    If anybody believes that people with money and brains are not sidling for the exits, they are deluded.

    People like Trump, who are PR creations and know it, will not do this publicly. Their downside for that is too great, and they don’t have that kind of sand. But they are doing it, be assured.

    Weber will be excoriated by his chums. They will make an example of him, to beat others into line. This kind of freedom of thought can’t be permitted.

    Others will take the hint, but still start…very quietly…pushing their assets out of reach.

  17. #17
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:56 am, happyscrapper said:

    This is the truly frightening aspect of socialism that liberals and the dumba$$es who voted democrat just don’t understand! When all the productive parts of the country leave or shut down…who will pay the bills??? Idiots, all of them. Starting with Odumbo and on down. Stupid stupid stupid. What can they possibly be thinking?

  18. #18
    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:59 am, conservative in europe said:

    The Brits will never have a Tea Party movement and here is why:

    Unlike the United States, where, for the most part, people have an ingrained attitude of self reliance and independence, the MAJORITY of people in the UK do not. The UK is a Nanny State because a majority of it’s people want it that way. More people are “on the dole” in the UK than not. There is little or no stigma applied.

    In the US, people from all walks of life protest higher taxes.

    In the UK, Andrew Lloyd Weber is the only person with the stones to speak out. Middle Class he ain’t (no offense Andy but it’s true..).

    The UK will always follow a leftist agenda until they are so close to collapse they get glimpses of the drain as they circle it (as Mr. Weber mentions happened in the ’70′s). They will, at that point, give in and hire a Conservative Government to fix it. Once that Government repairs the liberal damage, they will throw away all of their dignity and bring Labour back in to slowly screw themselves over once again.

    I base this statement on the British Politics of the post Edwardian period to date. They have had a running theme (think Churchill and Thatcher – what happened to them?)

    The British aren’t the pencil moustachioed chaps in jodphurs you see on television.. The majority of modern day Brits live in Council Housing and take a great deal of money from Government.

    It’s just the way it is.

    I could go on and on but the bottom line is that comparing Brits to Americans is, in BritSpeak, Chalk and Cheese. We just think differently.

  19. #19
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:00 am, BlameAmericaLast said:

    This is the truly frightening aspect of socialism that liberals and the dumba$$es who voted democrat just don’t understand!

    Because they don’t PAY taxes to begin with. They figure…let the “rich” pay all the taxes while they enjoy freeloading.

    This is what we’ve come to and are conditioned to. Why work if you don’t have to? Why pay taxes if you don’t have to? Government will pay for everything…healthcare, etc., off our backs.

    Once they cross over to the freeloader side, there’s no going back. Would you give up all this “free” stuff? What motivation would you have?

  20. #20
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:00 am, b-cat said:

    On April 27th, 2009 at 10:56 am, happyscrapper said:
    Stupid stupid stupid. What can they possibly be thinking?

    They’re thinking they’re entitled to enslave the rich. They’re entitled to the fruit of other people’s labor. The victims are the “richest 5%”. Talk about victimizing a minority!

  21. #21
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:01 am, conservative in europe said:

    Lest I put a stigma on all Brits, there are some who, in my opinion, are right minded. However, most are expatriates.

  22. #22
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:12 am, Jeff2161 said:

    They need the higher taxes so, they can provide housing etc…free to mullahs, their multiple wives and gaggles of up-and-coming terrorists.

  23. #23
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:14 am, Ragspierre said:

    They will, at that point, give in and hire a Conservative Government to fix it.

    Isn’t the current one “Conservative”? I sure thought it was.

    What we see in the UK, and Canada, and even Australia is the success of Fabian Socialism and fascist economics.

    Same as here. NOLA is a great example. Decades ago, a majority of the population in New Orleans was on Food Stamps. When I learned that, I was afraid…very afraid…for the future of my country.

  24. #24
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:16 am, Rip Ford said:

    Michael Caine is also making noise about leaving the UK. One hopes that even Leftists might get the point when he says he’s not paying the government more than he’s getting.

  25. #25
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:22 am, conservative in europe said:

    Rags,

    Nope. The current Government is “Labour” Think Democrats on steroids.

    They have many parties but you can narrow it down to The “Conservatives” and “Labour”. Tonly Blair was Labour – that’s why his own party loathed him for being friendly with the USA – we were run by Republicans at the time. When he was coddling Clinton – they all loved him. Blair made the mistake of thinking the Special Relationship extended to Republicans.

    Thatcher was from the Conservative Party, as was Churchill. When they had served their purpose and saved Britain, they were cast aside for Liberal governments. I’m a little bitter about this I know.. but from what I see, the Brits are only our friends when they need us.

  26. #26
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:27 am, Jeff2161 said:

    We’ve got three and a half million layabouts laying about on benefits, I’m 76, getting up at 6am to go to work to keep them. Let’s get everybody back to work so we can save a couple of billion and cut tax, not sticking it on.”

    You tell ‘em Michael Caine…But, coming back to America won’t help either…
    :shock:

  27. #27
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:28 am, Ragspierre said:

    Yep, I stand corrected.

    I always loved what Churchill said about the guy who replaced him…after he’d so courageously led GB through the war (he had a single bodyguard as he walked around bombed neighborhoods in London).

    He said, “He’s a very humble man…with great deal to be humble about”. I think that’s a pretty close paraphrase.

  28. #28
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:29 am, conservative in europe said:

    While I’m at it..

    The current PM is Gordon Brown.

    He was Chancellor of the Exchequer prior to taking this office. Think Secretary of the Treasury with full power to regulate banking. Britain’s economy is in a shambles. Labour government since the early ’90′s and Browns financial leadership to blame??

    No, he blames the Good Ole US of A every chance he gets.

    I think Obama was pretty weak giving him a set of DVD’s. The way Brown treats us, however, I kind of giggled when I heard it..

  29. #29
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:29 am, bansharia said:

    okay so its more dead thread/blog stuff

    did anyone hear of the PHOTO OP FAA did this morning around NYC?
    how damn cruel can obambi and his nutcase admin be to fly a 747 and 2 F-15s around wall street???
    these cruel mofo’s have got to be stopped

  30. #30
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:30 am, bansharia said:

    where is Doug or another blogger if MM is busy? cmonnnn gang

  31. #31
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:30 am, conservative in europe said:

    Churchill has to be one of the most quotable people in history..

    “Don’t talk to the Monkey when the Organ Grinder is in the room.”

    Classic

  32. #32
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:31 am, Ragspierre said:

    I know he’s a very mixed bag, but I always thought “Toney” Blair was a stand-up guy for his dogged pursuit of the war on terror. It sure cost him.

  33. #33
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:32 am, bansharia said:

    Low-Flying Plane Over Manhattan Was a ‘Photo Op’
    By STEPHEN POWER
    WASHINGTON — A low-flying commercial airplane escorted by military jets Monday morning sent workers worried about a repeat of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks fleeing their offices in the New York City area.

    Fears quickly abated, however, when it became clear that the circling plane was part of a “photo op.”

    The U.S. Defense Department is conducting a “photo op” that involves deploying two F-16 fighter jets escorting a Boeing 747 in the vicinity of Lower Manhattan and the Statue of Liberty, said Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Jim Peters.

    At around 10 a.m. EDT, the plane was seen flying low over lower Manhattan and at one point was seen circling the Goldman Sachs Tower in nearby Jersey City, N.J. Several buildings in the area were evacuated although workers quickly returned after it became clear that the flyover was planned in advance. There were reports that employees in skyscrapers throughout the area fled without prompting as word spread.

    Mr. Peters said the maneuver wasn’t an emergency and was coordinated in advance with the FAA and state and local officials.

    “They’ll do two or three spins and be done by 10:30,” Mr. Peters said.

    The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates bridges, tunnels and airports in the area, said they had no knowledge of the low-flying plane

  34. #34
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:32 am, conservative in europe said:

    Rags,

    I agree. Blair stood for and on principal. How he made it as a Liberal politician I will never understand.

  35. #35
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:33 am, bansharia said:

    WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE???

  36. #36
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:34 am, bansharia said:

    Tony Blair got one thing right otherwise
    was a pure commiehack.

  37. #37
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:35 am, FruNobulux said:

    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:22 am, conservative in europe said:

    … the Brits are only our friends when they need us.

    Who isn’t?

  38. #38
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:35 am, Rip Ford said:

    Reading the James Blunt article I’m just astounded by the stupidity of the writer.

    As for these super-rich people who may now flee the country because they have no social conscience whatsoever, I fail to see them as a great loss.

    Does it not occur to these people what’s going to happen when they finally drive away all of the people who put more into the system than they take out? Who do they think is going to foot the bill for their socialist programs once everyone with money has fled the country?

  39. #39
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:35 am, Jeff2161 said:

    h/t Gateway Pundit
    Monday, April 27, 2009
    Obama Tells GOP Leaders He’s Getting Lots of Tea Bags In the Mail Lately .

    I’m sure Chris Mathews will discuss Obama being tea-bagged today.
    :)

  40. #40
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:36 am, twofoot said:

    Already starting — but this liberal columnist from the UK doesn’t like it one bit.

    Wow. Has anyone else read the article or some of the comments at that link? I swear it could have been lifted straight out of Atlas Shrugged.

    It doesn’t surprise me that there are people in the world that sincerely believe they are entitled to the rewards of someone else’s hard work. That’s been known for years. But to see them actually state it so clearly, with no hesitation… Amazing.

  41. #41
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:37 am, Ragspierre said:

    CiE, sometimes, and in spite of their ideology, a real leader pops up and does the courageous thing when nobody has any business expecting it.

    It’s one of those wonderful “human factor” things that you see through history. Chester A. Arthur was a corrupt machine pol, but he instituted civil service during his presidency.

    Who knew…?

  42. #42
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:42 am, BlameAmericaLast said:

    It doesn’t surprise me that there are people in the world that sincerely believe they are entitled to the rewards of someone else’s hard work. That’s been known for years. But to see them actually state it so clearly, with no hesitation… Amazing.

    Visit any liberal blog, or abcnews.com and read their comments too. Same thing. After all, we’ve heard nothing but “tax cuts for the rich” mantra for the past eight years.

    Nevermind that small business (classified as the “rich”) are the only ones really creating jobs.

    This mentality needs to stop. But I’m afraid in this entitlement society that the left wing nutbags have created is irreversible.

  43. #43
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:44 am, Ragspierre said:

    It doesn’t surprise me that there are people in the world that sincerely believe they are entitled to the rewards of someone else’s hard work. That’s been known for years. But to see them actually state it so clearly, with no hesitation… Amazing.

    Watch for laws that out-law the expatriation of capital. Next, watch for laws that either tax or out-law leaving these places. It won’t actually happen soon, but watch for that as an issue being discussed.

    Remember one (of the very few) great out-come of the G-20? Making off-shore tax havens fewer. Now, just how does that serve to solve the “global financial crisis”???

    Answer: not at all, even in the least. It just makes taxation more effective.

  44. #44
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:47 am, 24Klady said:

    Half way watched Megyn Kelly on Fox this morning with the Capitalist Pig guy and the mayor of Detroit(?) discuss the guaranteed protection of retirement and benefits by the U.S. taxpayer for the Chrysler union workers made it clear we are in for a rough ride. The mayor thinks we owe them because they worked hard and it’s all Wall Street’s fault anyway. CP guy thinks a failed company filing bankruptsy owes nothing to the union workers that, in many ways, caused it. Makes my head hurt. If I had millions to fall back on I’d be looking for my own island somewhere and a safe place to stash the money.

  45. #45
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:48 am, b-cat said:

    Watch for laws that out-law the expatriation of capital.

    But they encourage the exodus of capital to Mexico and now Cuba.

  46. #46
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:49 am, Ragspierre said:

    This mentality needs to stop. But I’m afraid in this entitlement society that the left wing nutbags have created is irreversible.

    Please, DON’T believe that. It CAN be reversed, and the tools to do it are readily at hand.

    There has to be a Constitutional renaissance, and it can be forced by starving this system of what it requires…your money, compliantly given.

    Refuse to be eaten.

  47. #47
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:52 am, Ragspierre said:

    But they encourage the exodus of capital to Mexico and now Cuba.

    Not the same. Read Dr. Sowell’s Basic Economics.

    But, in the larger sense, I take your meaning.

  48. #48
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:57 am, englishqueen01 said:

    As for these super-rich people who may now flee the country because they have no social conscience whatsoever, I fail to see them as a great loss.

    Yet, how many of you here have gotten a job from anyone other than a “super-rich” person (or business)?

    The family on the dole doesn’t make jobs for anyone. So when the “super-rich” leave, taking their money with them, it harms those who work in industries supported (or created) by those supposedly-evil “super-rich.”

  49. #49
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:58 am, happyscrapper said:

    Watch for laws that out-law the expatriation of capital. Next, watch for laws that either tax or out-law leaving these places. It won’t actually happen soon, but watch for that as an issue being discussed.

    As soon as it starts becoming clear that this WILL happen, watch the mass exodus of the rich to various safer places. It will be unbelivable to behold. MASS exodus. All the idiots in DC need to do is start talking about it and see what happens. And the dolts in DC really ARE THAT STUPID.

  50. #50
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:06 pm, BlameAmericaLast said:

    And the dolts in DC really ARE THAT STUPID.

    Yep. Look at the people they put into office — Barbara Lee, Maxine Waters, Harry Reid, Queen Nancy, etc.

    Clueless.

  51. #51
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:10 pm, Ragspierre said:

    What’s clear is that tipping points are being…or have been…reached in both the UK and US.

    The “boiled frog” approach has worked VERY well to date. Now, however, the frog is beginning to feel the heat, and is pushing back.

    What we, as aware Americans, CANNOT allow the pols to do, is simply step back a few percentage points on their tax demands. They have MANY other ways to take your productive life from you, including inflation of the currency.

    We have to insist that America be returned to its charter.

  52. #52
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:14 pm, Socky said:

    Gee, I was under the impression from the left-wing tools who comment here that all Britons were delighted with their socialized health care system and even more delighted that they also had the option of paying even more for private health care on top of their crushing national health care tax?

  53. #53
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:19 pm, Paul-Cincy said:

    Imagine that, an artsy fartsy type, who puts musicals together, really awesome musicals I might add, is pushing conservative economic principles. Love it.

  54. #54
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:20 pm, Mister P said:

    Eventually the golden geese flee, leaving behind blowhard politicians and wannabes.

  55. #55
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:23 pm, conservative in europe said:

    Paul,

    It’s because it finally cost him some money..

    The Stones left the UK back in the ’70′s for the same reason. Extremely rich people can live wherever they want. Good for them. If I were a billionaire, I would want to live somewhere my family could keep the money I earned. the very rich Brits will go to Malta, Jersey and the Bahamas.

    Good for them.

  56. #56
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:23 pm, RogerCfromSD said:

    What is it with leftists, this compulsive need to tax others?

  57. #57
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:27 pm, Ragspierre said:

    The Stones left the UK back in the ’70’s for the same reason. Extremely rich people can live wherever they want. Good for them. If I were a billionaire, I would want to live somewhere my family could keep the money I earned. the very rich Brits will go to Malta, Jersey and the Bahamas.

    Seems to me the flight of capital from the UK was one of the things that fueled the “Irish Miracle”. Money flowed to a lower tax environment.

    Funny how that works…

  58. #58
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:30 pm, John Deaux said:

    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:58 am, happyscrapper said:

    Watch for laws that out-law the expatriation of capital. Next, watch for laws that either tax or out-law leaving these places. It won’t actually happen soon, but watch for that as an issue being discussed.

    As soon as it starts becoming clear that this WILL happen, watch the mass exodus of the rich to various safer places. It will be unbelivable to behold. MASS exodus. All the idiots in DC need to do is start talking about it and see what happens. And the dolts in DC really ARE THAT STUPID.

    Can’t you just picture CNN telling people not to panic because the FDIC has insured their accounts up to $250,000. Of course, a run on the banks by the top 1% of depositors would break the system.

  59. #59
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:32 pm, 24Klady said:

    RogerD – “this compulsive need to tax others?”

    It’s called job security. Reduce a population to where no one doesn’t take some kind of assistance you’ll never have to worry about being elected. Reducing everyone to the same playing field and you’ll have doctors working for the same wages as a waitress.

  60. #60
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:42 pm, atheling said:

    conservative in europe:

    Thanks for the answer on why the UK folks won’t protest. I’ve been wondering about that myself. I’ve been reading some conservative British blogs which complain about the high taxes, Big Brother, etc… and inevitably some Yank asks why they don’t protest and start some grass roots movement, and the answer is…

    Crickets chirping.

    I suspected it was because of exactly what you said.

  61. #61
    On April 27th, 2009 at 12:42 pm, Ragspierre said:

    RogerD – “this compulsive need to tax others?”

    It is called “responding to a demand”.

    It was always known that, if a majority learned they could take the earnings of a minority,…and the rule of law would permit the takings…our republic would be at its end.

    This is one of the several structural reasons we cannot use Civics 101 to restore our nation.

  62. #62
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:04 pm, conservative in europe said:

    Compulsive need to tax others..

    Everyone else who has answered you is probably correct.. However, here is my take:

    Look at the Democrats who are in power in the USA. They are all very wealthy.

    Now, I would never begrudge anyone money they have earned but think about it.. If you have had to go and earn a fortune, wouldn’t you encourage others to do the same? One would think so.

    However, High level Dems have gotten rich by whatever means and now they want the power to regulate the rest of us out of an opportunity to excel. In my opinion, this is a way for the liberal “elite” to consolidate their power base and ensure that they remain the only ones with money.

    In Europe, the original promise of Socialism was to undermine the power of the ruling class. However, it was the most powerful who instituted Socialism in the first place. So, what you have is a system where there are two classes of people and an undiscussed, unseen third class – 1. The very wealthy 2. The lower middle class and 3. The drug addicts, ultra poor immigrants and welfare leeches. Sadly, what should be a quiet, unseen sub class has grown to be very much in your face and present in every area.

    The ultra rich remain that way (good for them), the lower middle class (the majority of people) exists in mediocrity with no reason to hope for more and the lower class creates a perpetual reason for new taxes – which the middle class pays to the rich with a shrug of the shoulders..

    This is what Dems want for us. George Soros will NEVER pay an extra penny in taxes for the programs his party will force down the rest of our throats. His money is sheltered overseas (he would be stupid not to and you don’t get wealthy being stupid). He is just making sure none of us get to his level.

  63. #63
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:13 pm, emjem24 said:

    I read this article and really couldn’t believe the audacity of the author. It was like some guilt trip tripe that Lgm would write.

    What the hell does “social conscience” have to do with paying taxes? Does the amount of taxes one pays automatically increase (or decrease) the size of one’s “social conscience?”

    As someone who has worked their entire life doing what many liberals would consider “menial tasks” I snicker at the mere suggestion that this author makes. She really thinks that if all the “super rich” suddenly become tax exiles that there will be others to replace them. I have trouble believing this fairy tale notion when it seems that a fairly good proportion of the British population is indulging their “social consciences” by having other high income earners pay for their guilt free existences.

    I do not, unlike many Brits, expect someone else to pay my way. I do that myself. Libs and government apologists make think that without taxes, we’ll suffer and starve, that our food banks will stay empty and our roads/schools/other public entities will simply deteriorate. Yet, nobody can ever say what a pity that older citizens still have to pay exhorbitant property taxes for other people’s kids to schools that no longer function.

    I don’t think that the UK is the only country circling the drain. The US, its citizens, and its politicians are kidding themselves if they think we can continue making the elderly pay for property taxes they can’t afford when they’re better off just selling their money pits and downsizing.

    This is why I have not bought a house and wonder why I should.

  64. #64
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:13 pm, pianoman said:

    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:37 am, Ragspierre said:

    CiE, sometimes, and in spite of their ideology, a real leader pops up and does the courageous thing when nobody has any business expecting it.

    It’s one of those wonderful “human factor” things that you see through history. Chester A. Arthur was a corrupt machine pol, but he instituted civil service during his presidency.

    Who knew…?

    Good example. However, Arthur really didn’t have a choice, since he ascended to the Presidency after Garfield’s assassination by someone who got turned down for a government job.

  65. #65
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:17 pm, Ragspierre said:

    The ultra rich remain that way (good for them), the lower middle class (the majority of people) exists in mediocrity with no reason to hope for more and the lower class creates a perpetual reason for new taxes – which the middle class pays to the rich with a shrug of the shoulders..

    That may be more true in Europe than here, but the reality is that the income strata you mention are constantly churning in the US. Please see Dr. Sowell’s Basic Economics. The majority of the lowest income quartile in the US moves into one of the higher ones in about a decade. This is one of the MANY economic successes of our burdened and maligned market economy that is never told.

  66. #66
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:17 pm, emjem24 said:

    Oops to clarify: I’m reference the James Blunt article. Yep, need more coffee. :grin:

  67. #67
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:22 pm, Ragspierre said:

    However, Arthur really didn’t have a choice, since he ascended to the Presidency after Garfield’s assassination by someone who got turned down for a government job.

    While I take your larger point, Arthur DID have choices. He was protected by the Secret Service, and he could easily have figured he was insulated from Garfield’s unhappy (but maybe fortuitous) end. But he did step up, and do the right thing though it ran against his entire background.

  68. #68
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:28 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    If anybody believes that people with money and brains are not sidling for the exits, they are deluded.

    I know people who don’t “live” anywhere. They travel and stay several months at a time in places they like, in a sort of a rotation…

  69. #69
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:29 pm, conservative in europe said:

    Pianoman – Nice. Didn’t realize that.

    What I do know about CAA is that he created the INS – based on a law that forbid the import of Chinese labor.

    Emjem,

    I really think you misunderstand British thought processes. the idea of a “social conscience” comes from the British notion that they are the center of the Universe. This statement sounds bitter but it’s true. Just like we are told that the USA is the greatest nation on Earth (something that probably is still true but will not be for long at this rate), the Brits are told that they are the Greatest people on Earth. They tend to equate everything in British terms even though they are neither a large country or, in global terms, a large economy.

    The base of British political thinking is “fair play” and leadership by British example.

    I was once told by a Brit Diplomat that they thought Cuba being on the UN Council for Human rights to be a good thing because the Cubans would have to recognize the things they did wrong..

    I know, I know.. By our way of thinking, completely inane. But, that is how their minds work.

    The US will never be more to the Brits that a bunch of unsophisticated Colonial yahoos.. until we have to bail them out again. Then we will have a special relationship..

  70. #70
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:30 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    This is one of the MANY economic successes of our burdened and maligned market economy that is never told.

    This used to be commonly taught in schools until….

  71. #71
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:32 pm, conservative in europe said:

    Rags,

    That may be more true in Europe than here, but the reality is that the income strata you mention are constantly churning in the US. Please see Dr. Sowell’s Basic Economics. The majority of the lowest income quartile in the US moves into one of the higher ones in about a decade. This is one of the MANY economic successes of our burdened and maligned market economy that is never told.

    You are preachin’ to the choir on this one..

  72. #72
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:36 pm, Ragspierre said:

    CiE,

    sorry, but it seemed you were assuming that the income strata are static…as our politicians love to pretend

    In socialist or fascist societies, that actually does happen.

    Not here…as yet.

  73. #73
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:43 pm, conservative in europe said:

    Rags,

    That’s the point. In Euro-style Socialism, income strata ARE static. Today. Right now. This is one of my main reasons for opposition of any form of Socialism – take away the ability to become more than what you are and you willingness to excel withers on the vine..

    In the US, although the Dems are trying hard to stop it, we still have the ability to advance ourselves and therefore, for at least some of us, a reason to excel . It is the one clear separation in our socio/political/economic systems. That the Dems want to make us like them is pure stupidity – yet it continues..

  74. #74
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:51 pm, Ragspierre said:

    I only disagee as to the stupidity of the Dimocrats.

    Some are…demonstrably…stupid.

    Most are simply corrupt. One could say evil. I don’t think that an overstatement.

    We all agree that slavery is evil.

    I think that we all know…somewhere…in our inner selves, that slavery in part or by degree is also evil.

    But the Dims also know it works as a means to consolidate power. So they use it.

    The effects are so well documented…both in history and around the planet…that that seems the only conclusion one can reach as to why they continue to push this foul ideology.

  75. #75
    On April 27th, 2009 at 1:53 pm, conservative in europe said:

    True.. Absolutely 100% correct..

  76. #76
    On April 27th, 2009 at 2:01 pm, Ragspierre said:

    I just had a minor flash of insight…

    Mexico has nationalized health care.

    We don’t.

    How far does that go to explaining the mortality in Mexico…

    opposed to the lack of mortality here…

    from the same disease?

  77. #77
    On April 27th, 2009 at 2:30 pm, conservative in europe said:

    Mexico has nationalized health care?

    What a better example not to follow..

  78. #78
    On April 27th, 2009 at 2:46 pm, Stillwaiting said:

    other countries are bidding for entrepreneurs

    Being one of those countries (in the past) is what helped build the US so quickly. Land of opportunity! What are we now?

  79. #79
    On April 27th, 2009 at 2:48 pm, ArizonaNeanderthal said:

    Ragspierre said:
    He (Churchill) said, “He’s a very humble man…with great deal to be humble about”.

    But He Whose Middle Name is Hussein sent the Bust of Churchill back to the British embassy–no idols of Blue Eyed Devils in HIS White House.

  80. #80
    On April 27th, 2009 at 2:50 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Arizona…

    It was those EYES…

    they kept following him…

    reproach in each gaze…

  81. #81
    On April 27th, 2009 at 2:55 pm, flmom said:

    Watch for laws that out-law the expatriation of capital. Next, watch for laws that either tax or out-law leaving these places. It won’t actually happen soon, but watch for that as an issue being discussed.

    Funny you should say that, Bush signed a law in Jone ’08, it’s intention was to help military families, serving abroad, with the repatriation of their finances. Wouldn’t you know, there was another legislation that required full estate taxes to be paid on the worldwide assets of any US citizen who gives up their citizenship. So the wealthy US citizens cannot move their money or live in another country without it costing them dearly. The US is also moving very strongly towards exposing the few tax havens left.

  82. #82
    On April 27th, 2009 at 2:55 pm, conservative in europe said:

    All of this Churchill talk makes me crave a cigar. Punch torpedoes are the order of the day..

  83. #83
    On April 27th, 2009 at 2:56 pm, flmom said:

    oops, Jone=June, of course.

  84. #84
    On April 27th, 2009 at 3:01 pm, Ragspierre said:

    All of this Churchill talk makes me crave a cigar. Punch torpedoes are the order of the day..

    A good choice…and a specific nostrum against Swine Flu.

    I can recommend Patel, Cusano, and Gurka, as well…

  85. #85
    On April 27th, 2009 at 3:09 pm, conservative in europe said:

    flmom,

    They’ve tried it before. In 1996, Clinton passed a law making any person who was a US Citizen that renounces Citizenship in order to avoid paying taxes inadmissible to the US. To date, 13 years later, not one person has ever been refused admission to the US on this charge.

    The refuge for those with means is a “trust”. A trust is an entity other than yourself that only you (or your family/designated representative) have rights to. Thus, if you are sued – your money isn’t “yours” legally and therefore protected. Same goes for bankruptcy and estate taxes. An entire industry revolves around “estate planning”.

    Say you have 5 million laying around. Go to Nassau and have a bank create a trust for your children. You aren’t giving them the money and it isn’t “yours” so it isn’t taxable – it belongs to the trust. The bank takes a percentage for managing it. The trust becomes it’s own entity, kind of like a corporation. So, you can’t have the money anymore but.. it sits there, untouchable by you or the government. Rules will be set up around the trust for disbursement such as.. when your children turn 18, 5% per annum is disbursed to them in addition to interest that may accrue. Of course, that money is taxable on disbursement but at a much lower rate than estate taxes.

    I guarantee you, the people who wrote and signed that law utilize trusts to protect their assets.

    Using tools like this, people avoid running afoul of the law you describe.

    When people have money, they can afford to pay very smart people to plan on how to keep that money. Yet they still pay 95% of all taxes in the US. What will the Dems do when they run all the rich Americans away?

  86. #86
    On April 27th, 2009 at 3:12 pm, conservative in europe said:

    Rags,

    I have to work hard to get a non-Cuban here. I used to smoke them but, after Blue Lips kissed Castro’s butt, I refuse. I got boxes of Punch and Partagas Torpedoes in last week.

    Opening the Balvenie as we speak..

  87. #87
    On April 27th, 2009 at 3:18 pm, Ragspierre said:

    CiE

    some of what you say about trusts is true.

    They can be wonderfully customized to do what their grantor (the person with the gift…whatever it is) wishes. They beat a will all to hell, generally.

    You generally refer to an irrevocable trust. There are other types.

    They are taxed in the US, however, to at least some degree.

    You can, as grantor, give yourself a “life interest” in a trust, allowing you to benefit from the corpus (the goodies) of the trust during your lifetime. That benefit, however, can be awarded to a judgment creditor from a law suit.

    We could chat for many happy hours on the wonderfulness of trusts…

  88. #88
    On April 27th, 2009 at 3:21 pm, Ragspierre said:

    I have to work hard to get a non-Cuban here. I used to smoke them but, after Blue Lips kissed Castro’s butt, I refuse. I got boxes of Punch and Partagas Torpedoes in last week.

    Lucky dog!!! I don’t know if I’d regularly smoke Cubans even if I could get them. Too pricy…

    I have smoked Panamanians, though. You can tell they were made from Panamanian leaf because they stick “Panama” stickers over the “Cuban” stamps….

    I like them, too…

  89. #89
    On April 27th, 2009 at 3:31 pm, conservative in europe said:

    Yep, what I know about finances was pretty much spent in my tyrade. I lived in Nassau a while back and remember the flood of guys coming from the US and Canada during the Clinton years to set ‘em up.

    Never had a Panamanian cigar. I have, however, smoked a boatload of “counterfeit” Cuban cigars and they can range from pretty good to “worse than backwoods”. I will give credit to the Dominicans, Hondurans and Nicaraguans. The quality control these guys put out is a million times better than the Cubans’. Cuba never seemed to recover from the hurricanes of the ’90′s. They tend to rush production.

    I am with you on the pricing. A cheap Cuban over here is 10 Euro ($13). Not worth bothering with when I can mail order from J+R.

    I’m out. Have a good night.

  90. #90
    On April 27th, 2009 at 3:34 pm, flmom said:

    Thanks CiE and Rags, you’ve given me some fine education. And Rags, btw, been reading your theory of starving the beast and agree. Though I see that it is a natural progression as businesses close and more people are out of work. A bad economy takes a while to trickle up to the wealthy, but I am seeing the effects, over the past 3 months, that it is definitely starting to affect the spending behavior of the very wealthy.

  91. #91
    On April 27th, 2009 at 3:39 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Thank you.

    Watch for this. It is going to take some careful, deliberate planning.

    I would very much like your critical thinking on this. Join me, and give it place in your thinking.

  92. #92
    On April 27th, 2009 at 7:05 pm, cheapseat said:

    no wonder that there are so few companies in the u.k. with employees. the employee pays 1.5% of his universal health care, and the employer pays 13.5% of that fee. makes you want to run out and hire illegals by the boatload doesn’t it. and the illegal immigrant population in the u.k. is what?

  93. #93
    On April 27th, 2009 at 11:05 pm, Laree said:

    Imagine tea drinkers endorsing tea partys ;)

  94. #94
    On April 28th, 2009 at 12:02 am, Papa Louie said:

    Andrew Lloyd Webber, meet Abraham Lincoln and Frederic Bastiat:

    That some should be rich, shows that others may become rich, and, hence, is just encouragement to industry and enterprise.
    — Abraham Lincoln

    When a portion of wealth passes out of the hands of him who has acquired it, without his consent, and without compensation, to him who has not created it, whether by force or by artifice, I say that property is violated, that plunder is perpetrated. I say that this is exactly what the law ought to repress always and everywhere.

    Legal plunder has two roots: one of them… is in human greed; the other is in misconceived philanthropy.
    — Frederic Bastiat, The Law

  95. #95
    On April 28th, 2009 at 4:53 pm, dadinseattle said:

    It is time to Turn up the Heat on the Elite
    before our country becomes a third world has been.

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