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Comments

1. #101
   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:30 pm, ArizonaNeanderthal said:

   The wealth of both the US and Mexico was increased. Not a little…VASTLY.

   Possibly-Mexican gang bangers have gone into the Distribution business here on a large scale and do provide jobs for police, prison guards, Emergency room personnel, undertakers and alarm companies. Supposedly we ship them large numbers of arms but Home Land Security’s J-No and Arizona’s Attorney General Terry Goddard were mistaken–those AK 47s are generally from China or Eastern Europe.

   But that is a small price to pay for lower green fees for our Imperial Senate. IF NAFTA were run the way it was promised I could accept that–my company did sell to Mexico. But NAFTA was continuously re worked to the benefit of special people of special privilege.

   But the H1B visa program is of special concern: both Intel and IBM brought in H1B visa program engineers and then laid off American engineers AFTER forcing the American engineers to train them. Those American engineers who refused were “fired for cause” which would and did make them unemployable.

   Odd lawsuit it is–the Department of Labor filed a Friend of the Court Brief for the American engineers while the Commerce Department has filed for the companies. Oh would I love to be on that jury but as a son-in-law is involved I guess that would never happen.

2. #102
   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:31 pm, Ragspierre said:

   whats your problem? you admit you cannot answer my questions/scenarios about economics, and yet you pass yourself off as some kind of econ guru???

   I made myself misunderstood. I certainly CAN answer your questions…though I doubt it would avail.

   I don’t have the time or inclination.

3. #103
   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:32 pm, right4life said:

   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:30 pm, Ragspierre said:
   again the answer is obvious..supply and demand…
   In this market area, even with the slump in housing demand, you cannot find people who are skilled in the trades to supply the demand here.

   thats the standard answer from IBM, MS, etc…same old BS..

   they NEVER can find anyone who is a citizen, so they have to get a low-paid foreigner to do the work.

   amazing how dumb and lazy americans are isn’t it??

4. #104
   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:33 pm, right4life said:

   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:31 pm, Ragspierre said:

   as I said before, go take a flying leap…its easy to see you’re a lawyer…arrogant piece of trash.

   I certainly CAN answer your questions

   not a chance moron.

5. #105
   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:34 pm, Ragspierre said:

   amazing how dumb and lazy americans are isn’t it??

   Umm…two word response.

   President Obama.

6. #106
   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:34 pm, right4life said:

   ok mr. expert RAGGIE…tell me why have a H1B visa program in the first place???

   hmmm??

   oh let me guess…you can’t find qualified american workers!!!

   so you have to hire low-wage foreigners….isnt’ that nice how it always works that way??? duhhhhh…

7. #107
   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:35 pm, NY Andy said:

   MarcoPolo said:

   The way I read it is that American businesses investing overseas can defer income taxes on the profit until they move the money to the US. But the same businesses take tax deductions on their overseas investments. So they’re taking deductions against untaxed revenue?

   Investments are not profits or, as you say ‘untaxed revenue’. They are expenses. US company expenses here aren’t taxed either.

8. #108
   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:35 pm, Ragspierre said:

   All other posters will take note to the resort to name-calling by “Right”.

   Seems like a abrogation of rational debate to me….

9. #109
   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:36 pm, right4life said:

   On May 5th, 2009 at 2:34 pm, Ragspierre said:

   lame. nice to see you have so much regard for your fellow citizens..

   let me guess, you have some nice mexicans who do your lawn work…

10. #110
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:36 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:35 pm, Ragspierre said:
    All other posters will take note to the resort to name-calling by “Right

    whiner…loser.

11. #111
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:36 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:35 pm, Ragspierre said:

    are all lawyers pansies??

12. #112
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:37 pm, chapoutier said:

    All other posters will take note to the resort to name-calling by “Right”.

    Rags, other posters were taking note of that long ago.

13. #113
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:38 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:37 pm, chapoutier said:

    and we’ve taken note of your lies and BS long ago chappy..

    another lawyer..

    do any lawyers NOT suck??

14. #114
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:40 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Your “guess” is as wrong as all your other wrong statements here.

    I do my own work. Sort of a carry-over of my life’s course…I was in the building trades, contracting, and the oil field before I went to law school.

    Your ASSumptions are showing….

15. #115
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:40 pm, MarcoPolo said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:00 pm, bear1909 said:

    Soetoro is an economic numb nut.

    I don’t think so. I think he is a sociopath that has absolutely no interest in what’s best for us economically. He will tromp everyone and everything to achieve his personal vision of what America should be, namely the socialist front of the new global economy.

    And even if he is it’s not just him. There are simply too many lawyers in Congress. I think we’d all be better off if bean counters were elected to higher offices. They are boring to listen to, but we would know where our money was going.

16. #116
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:40 pm, Jeff2161 said:

    Are zombies eligible for H-1B visas too ?

17. #117
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:42 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:40 pm, Ragspierre said:
    Your “guess” is as wrong as all your other wrong statements here.

    what statements of mine are wrong? post your proof. ya got nothing. no surprise there.

    I do my own work. Sort of a carry-over of my life’s course…I was in the building trades, contracting, and the oil field before I went to law school.

    so brining in low-wage workers from mexico, say, to do construction jobs won’t result in lower wages for americans still doing the jobs, and less jobs for americans??

    right..post your proof…this is econ 101..supply and demand….and you have an MBA??? please…

    Your ASSumptions are showing….

    wow that was clever!! you must be a lawyer there gomer

18. #118
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:42 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Are zombies eligible for H-1B visas too ?

    No. We have too many Dimocrat voters now.

19. #119
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:43 pm, Jeff2161 said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:42 pm, Ragspierre said:

    

20. #120
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:46 pm, Ragspierre said:

    so brining in low-wage workers from mexico, say, to do construction jobs won’t result in lower wages for americans still doing the jobs, and less jobs for americans??

    The answer to your first question is, Of course. If you reduced the number of skilled tradesmen to one, that guy could command a very high wage, indeed.

    The answer to your second question is, No. If you have an unmet demand for skilled tradesmen, they are…by definition…fully employed.

    Duh…

21. #121
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:48 pm, right4life said:

    The answer to your second question is, No. If you have an unmet demand for skilled tradesmen, they are…by definition…fully employed.

    so where is all this ‘unmet demand’ with our 8.5% unemployment rate??? hmmm??? Duhhhhhhhhh

    ‘unmet demand’ thats the kind of BS that Microsoft uses to justify the H1B visa program…its BS. its ‘lawyereze’ for ‘we want to hire cheap labor so BillG can get another ferrari’

22. #122
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:49 pm, Regulus said:

    As far as I’m concerned, for anyone who voted for Hope-a-Dope or gave money to his campaign there’s:

    - No burden too heavy to bear;
    - No sacrifice too much to call for;
    - No pain too great to suffer;
    - No price too expensive to pay;
    - No shame too deep to experience; and
    - No humiliation too degrading to endure.

    Anyone who paid any attention at all during the campaign had to know what was coming if they supported that man. There’s no acceptable excuse for willful ignorance. For any such people who express buyer’s remorse today, the only proper response is one of scorn and contempt.

23. #123
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:50 pm, right4life said:

    if companies like Microsoft, IBM, etc wanted more programmers IN THE LONG RUN, since we are ALL so concerned with the long run..then they should pay a higher wage which would encourage more college kids to go into the field(s)…

    just the opposite has occured…

24. #124
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:50 pm, Ragspierre said:

    so where is all this ‘unmet demand’ with our 8.5% unemployment rate??? hmmm??? Duhhhhhhhhh

    Perhaps I failed to mention the thousands of structures in my area that remain in need of basic re-roofing?

    Duh…

    Your turn….

25. #125
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:53 pm, Ragspierre said:

    The engineering school at TAMU does not suffer from a lack of eager recruiters from the private sector.

    Of course, not all engineering schools are as good…

26. #126
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:53 pm, chapoutier said:

    Could we see a link to any sort of evidence that H1B workers in these industries are paid less than the equivalent American worker?

    Isn’t that the crux of your argument, right? I am sure you must have some figures on hand for such a deeply held belief.

27. #127
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:57 pm, Mister P said:

    FACT: OUR educational system has become so bad at the elementary and high school levels, that college students lack the skills to learn high-level math and science.

    That’s why they go into silly “majors” such as “communications”. Last thing they want to be seen as is “geeks” and “nerds” studying all that hard stuff.

    By the time an American kid has hit his 20’s it’s very late to try and teach him the skills he’s avoided learning, especially critical thinking skills that teachers no longer teach, being stupes themselves.

    I don’t question the problems you have with public schools, they are poor. However I do question the rest of your assertions.
    I use to teach math and science and have a masters in math. I didn’t get that masters myself until I was 35. I had to go back to graduate school and my wife and I lived on $400 per month, due to the 80′s recession. It was only then did I learn computer science and made a career of it – well past the ’20s in which you say it is too late to learn these skills.

    I went on to become an independant contractor and consultant. As such I have trained people with a variety of skills and taught them to be independent contractors themselves. It DOES NOT REQUIRE MATH in school at all. What it requires is the old American willingness to learn new skills, a mentor and a logical mind. NOT EVEN public skills can drum this out of our kids.

    Don’t sell American’s or the kids short.

28. #128
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:58 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Lest anyone misconstrue my example of the unmet demand for tradesmen with an implied approval of illegal immigration…

    let me state that I categorically do not approve of illegal immigration.

    I merely use my example as a means to show that contractors here do not employ anybody “below the American wage”. If you can find somebody with the skills, you pay the going rate. Period.

29. #129
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:58 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:50 pm, Ragspierre said:
    so where is all this ‘unmet demand’ with our 8.5% unemployment rate??? hmmm??? Duhhhhhhhhh
    Perhaps I failed to mention the thousands of structures in my area that remain in need of basic re-roofing?

    why don’t you post a reference? you are lawyer, and they tend to be liars.

    maybe you just need a few more illegal aliens in your area!

    or maybe if you actually PAID a little more, instead of slave wages, you could get your roof done…duhhhhhhh

    your turn moron.

30. #130
    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:59 pm, right4life said:

    I merely use my example as a means to show that contractors here do not employ anybody “below the American wage”. If you can find somebody with the skills, you pay the going rate. Period.

    oh this is such BS…you have no idea, no proof, nothing.

31. #131
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:00 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:53 pm, Ragspierre said:
    The engineering school at TAMU does not suffer from a lack of eager recruiters from the private sector.

    and how many of them are from this country? usually the engineering, science departments at universities are full of foreigners…

32. #132
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:01 pm, right4life said:

    I merely use my example as a means to show that contractors here do not employ anybody “below the American wage”. If you can find somebody with the skills, you pay the going rate. Period.

    so you are telling me that illegal aliens DO NOT work for less than an american??

    same for h1B visas too right??

    pathetically stupid.

33. #133
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:02 pm, Ragspierre said:

    I think you could do a Google Earth search and see the proof of my assertions in real time.

    My roof needs no repairs, as I am a person of energy and remarkably diverse skills.

    I think it telling that you continually feel the need to resort to playground name calling.

    Could that have an effect on your own employment…

    Just sayin’….

34. #134
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:03 pm, bear1909 said:

    Marco Polo disagrees with the premise i gave: “Soetoro” is an economic numb nut. The insinuation is that he is devoid of any understanding of an economic system that has worked pretty well here for over 200 years.

    Yet MP says:
    

    He will tromp everyone and everything to achieve his personal vision of what America should be, namely the socialist front of the new global economy.

    I rest my case. That isnt an economy at all. It is a totalitarian system of extortion run by a cartel.

    Numb nut, I say.

    Bear1909 out.

35. #135
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:05 pm, Mister P said:

    I merely use my example as a means to show that contractors here do not employ anybody “below the American wage”. If you can find somebody with the skills, you pay the going rate. Period.

    Not really true. Visa holders are like indentured servants. They don’t get to move around for higher wages like the rest of us. They stick with the contracting company that holds their H1B visa. Infosys would be an example. Now even though the Indian worker lives in the US, they will get the Indian wage for what they do (and all expenses paid). However Infosys will still bill the same rate as any American company.
    The visa actually becomes an asset of Infosys which they hold on to tightly. They even keep workers in the US who aren’t worker just to keep that H1 Slot.

36. #136
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:05 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:02 pm, Ragspierre said:
    I think you could do a Google Earth search and see the proof of my assertions in real time.

    laughable…why don’t you post some RESEARCH that backs up your ASSertions?? hmmmmm?? since you’re SO SCHOLARLY and such a brilliant individual

    My roof needs no repairs, as I am a person of energy and remarkably diverse skills.

    laughable…..are you for real?? no one can be this pompous and idiotic…oh wait, you’re a lawyer!!

    I think it telling that you continually feel the need to resort to playground name calling.

    apparently it bothers you greatly…so I will continue jacka**

37. #137
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:09 pm, chapoutier said:

    Still waiting for any numbers showing H1B workers earn less than American counterparts….

    You know…whenever you can get around to that…

38. #138
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:09 pm, Ragspierre said:

    It ain’t bragging if you can do it.

    Your resort to ad hominem attack does not bother me in the least. I find it says volumes about the poverty of your arguments and your maturity.

    So, please, keep it up.

39. #139
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:13 pm, right4life said:

    Employment statistics invariably lag behind the calendar. A March 2006 CIS study of the top 22 occupations in 2005 indicated that in no occupational category did immigrant employees outnumber native employees. In other words, native-born U.S. workers are already doing jobs where high concentrations of illegal immigrant are also employed. The largest share of immigrant employees was 44.7%, and the category was “Farming, fishing and forestry.” The largest raw number of immigrant employees was in “Construction and extraction” where 2,209,000 immigrants (26.1% of the total labor force) were outnumbered by 6,250,000 native employees.

    A deeper examination into statistics that focuses on less-educated workers (high school degree or less) indicates a higher concentration among immigrant employees. In “Farming, fishing and forestry,” less-educated immigrants outnumber natives 364,000 to 338,000. But, there were an estimated 56,000 unemployed (14.2%) native workers in that category. In construction, native unemployment was 12.1% with 577,000 unemployed native workers.

    link

    according to RAGGY, this can’t be possible!! they’re lying!!!

40. #140
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:13 pm, Jeff2161 said:

    This wage depressing effect of illegal immigrant workers was documented in 2008 by researchers working for the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta.

    “…the authors find that average wages among documented [legal] workers are lower in industries that employ undocumented [illegal] workers and that a greater share of undocumented workers in those industries further lowers wages.”15Julie Hotchkiss & Myriam Quispe-Agnoli, “The Labor Market Experience and Impact of Undocumented Workers,” Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta (Working Paper 2008-7c), June 2008.

41. #141
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:15 pm, Mister P said:

    Still waiting for any numbers showing H1B workers earn less than American counterparts….

    You know…whenever you can get around to that…

    Why don’t you provide the figures that says that they earn the same? Since that would need to be used to justify the program. I would think that would be easy.

42. #142
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:15 pm, chapoutier said:

    What does that have to do with H1B visa workers?

43. #143
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:15 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:09 pm, chapoutier said:
    Still waiting for any numbers showing H1B workers earn less than American counterparts….

    I already posted that DUHHHHHHH look on the previous page….let me guess…you must be a lawyer!!

    here, I’ll repost this much, you can go back and find, I think, and follow the link…

    On May 5th, 2009 at 1:35 pm, right4life said:
    Our estimates indicate that H-1B admissions at the current levels are associated with a 5-6% drop in wages for computer programmers and systems analysts. Offshoring appears to lower the wages of a slightly broader class of IT workers, including IT managers, by about 3%. These effects are larger for employees exposed to external labor market forces, such as new graduates or job-hoppers.

    moron

44. #144
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:15 pm, Jeff2161 said:

    National Academy of Sciences estimates that approximately 44 percent of wage depression among low-skilled Americans during 1980-1994 was due to immigration.

45. #145
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:16 pm, chapoutier said:

    Why don’t you provide the figures that says that they earn the same? Since that would need to be used to justify the program. I would think that would be easy.

    Because I am not making any assertion, right4life is. Usually, its good form to try to prove your own argument.

46. #146
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:18 pm, PhredE said:

    Could we see a link to any sort of evidence that H1B workers in these industries are paid less than the equivalent American worker?

    
    Here’s one

47. #147
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:19 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Ummm….Right…

    If a lot of those unemployed construction workers wanted to displace themselves and their families, and move to Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama…

    Oh, yeah, and accept non-union work…

    They would be EMPLOYED.

    But, as we know, UNEMPLOYMENT frequently involves some degree of choice on the part of the individual.

    Or would you disagree with that, too…???

48. #148
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:25 pm, right4life said:

    If a lot of those unemployed construction workers wanted to displace themselves and their families, and move to Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama…

    Oh, yeah, and accept non-union work…

    They would be EMPLOYED.

    so you say.

49. #149
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:26 pm, chapoutier said:

    here, I’ll repost this much, you can go back and find, I think, and follow the link…

    Saying that overall wages drop as supply increases is not the same as saying that one subgroup is paid less than the other, which is what you claim.

50. #150
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:26 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Offshoring appears to lower the wages of a slightly broader class of IT workers, including IT managers, by about 3%. These effects are larger for employees exposed to external labor market forces, such as new graduates or job-hoppers.

    Well, of course.

    Like I pointed out earlier, if you RESTRICT the supply of anything…

    you will artificially raise its costs, lower quality, and cause SHORTAGES, which are ALWAYS the result of market distortions.

    I would love it if all law schools were shut down tomorrow. I…and other incumbent practitioners would then be able to command much higher rates, caused by the SHORTAGE of people with my skills. We could all get away with doing LOWER QUALITY WORK, because the competitive forces that the market imposes would have been DESTROYED.

51. #151
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:30 pm, Jeff2161 said:

    Companies Not Named
    The USCIS report, called H-1B Benefit Fraud & Compliance Assessment, is based on a sample of 246 H-1B petitions. It does not name companies involved in the study. The report says that 80% of the fraud or technical violations were uncovered during site visits.

    Fraudulent cases include instances in which the visa worker was not working or had never worked at the specified location on the application. Technical violations involved situations in which the worker was paid at or below the prevailing wage, which companies are required by law to pay.

    In other cases, the job duties were significantly different from the position listed on the visa petition. This could involve misrepresenting the skill set required or the location of the job. Accounting, human resources, business analyst, sales, and advertising occupations are more likely than other categories to involve fraud, according to the study. Other areas in which violations were found include computer-related occupations, and art and managerial jobs. “Until we make a conscious effort to close the loopholes, we’re going to see continued abuse where people coming to this country on H-1B visas are working at Laundromats,” said Grassley in a statement. He was referring to situations in which companies misrepresent what type of work the visa holder will do.

    In the study, visa workers with only bachelor’s degrees were subject to higher fraud or technical violation rates (31%) than those with graduate degrees (13%). Fraud and violations were more common for companies employing 25 or fewer employees and with annual gross income of less than $10 million.

    http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/oct2008/db2008108_844949.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_news+%2B+analysis
    

52. #152
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:33 pm, right4life said:

    Saying that overall wages drop as supply increases is not the same as saying that one subgroup is paid less than the other, which is what you claim.

    I don’t really care what the h1b visa holders are paid…but its rather obvious why they are hired isn’t it? the same reason we *need* all those illegal aliens….

53. #153
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:34 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Jeff, fraud is…well, fraud.

54. #154
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:34 pm, right4life said:

    Like I pointed out earlier, if you RESTRICT the supply of anything…

    you will artificially raise its costs, lower quality, and cause SHORTAGES, which are ALWAYS the result of market distortions.

    so we should just have open borders!! you know borders *restrict* the supply of labor in this country…

55. #155
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:36 pm, Ragspierre said:

    I don’t really care what the h1b visa holders are paid…but its rather obvious why they are hired isn’t it?

    Yep. Capitalism at work, people being left free to make choices, to engage in commerce. Freedom.

    I am a capitalist. You apparently are something else.

56. #156
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:37 pm, right4life said:

    link

    H1B Visa workers, usually high-tech and one of the largest sources of the Asian Indian population in the U.S., may unexpectedly be another exploited group in the U.S. Two Asian Indian workers, Vishal Goel and Paueesh Gopal, have filed suit against the Patni company, an Indian contract employer. They claimed that they were paid a base salary of 23,000 dollars, in violation of Patni’s promises. Goel and Gopal were contracted out to work for State Farm Insurance in Illinois. Patni had previously paid fines to underpayment of its employees and thus has a record of employee abuse. This is the first suit that H1B visa workers have filed against a technology service company.

57. #157
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:37 pm, Jeff2161 said:

    Fraud and “technical violations ” drive down prevailing wages which are self-reported to the State Dept. not cross-checked with Dept. of Labor. Since, no employer has an incentive to “play fair” , to compete with others…Notice they also use the visas for HR departments, etc…I did not know we had a shortage of them too. Apparently Indian HR managers are more up-to-date on US law ?

58. #158
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:38 pm, txvet2 said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:26 pm, Ragspierre said:

    I would love it if all law schools were shut down tomorrow. I…and other incumbent practitioners would then be able to command much higher rates, caused by the SHORTAGE of people with my skills.

    It’d work just as well if we drowned a few thousand like puppies. Like the old joke about NY Harbor.

59. #159
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:38 pm, right4life said:

    Yep. Capitalism at work, people being left free to make choices, to engage in commerce. Freedom.

    I am a capitalist. You apparently are something else.

    you are an open borders type obviously.

    so when you hire your illegal aliens does it give you a rush of power to have brown-skinned serfs working for ya??

    kinda like a ‘bwana’ on a plantation?

60. #160
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:38 pm, chapoutier said:

    I don’t really care what the h1b visa holders are paid…

    My bad. I have no idea where I would have gotten the idea you care about what they get paid.

    On May 5th, 2009 at 12:05 pm, right4life said

    because they’re cheap,

    On May 5th, 2009 at 1:10 pm, right4life said:

    the problem your kid will run into, is that the companies that would hire that kind of talent, would rather hire an indian or asian for a lot less money…

    On May 5th, 2009 at 2:23 pm, right4life said:

    uh why should they do that when they can basically hire a low-wage serf to do their work???

61. #161
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:39 pm, right4life said:

    oh raggy, do you drink your mint-julip while you watch them work???

    bet you have one of them fan you with a palm leaf…

62. #162
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:40 pm, right4life said:

    My bad. I have no idea where I would have gotten the idea you care about what they get paid.

    its obvious they are paid less, but even if they were not, they would hold wages down…supply and demand, you know…duhhhhh

63. #163
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:40 pm, Jeff2161 said:

    Yep. Capitalism at work, people being left free to make choices, to engage in commerce. Freedom.

    Freedom for non-citizens ? Ummmm…
    I thought we were past this…Non-citizens do NOT, in my opinion, have a right to compete with citizens for employment in the US.

64. #164
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:41 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:38 pm, chapoutier said:

    oh and I was also talking about illegal aliens….reading is fundamental

65. #165
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:41 pm, Ragspierre said:

    so we should just have open borders!! you know borders *restrict* the supply of labor in this country…

    Well, not so much…if you look at our present circumstances…

    And, no, I do not advocate open borders.

    I do advocate leaving people free to trade with one and other.

    We have borders at our state lines, too, right? Should Texas companies be restricted by Texas law from trading with a person from Ohio? I mean, a law like that would assure higher prices for WHATEVER could be commanded by Texans.

    I buy stuff…and I sell stuff…to people from all over the planet. Is that bad? Do you have a right to tell me I cannot?

66. #166
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:41 pm, right4life said:

    notice there is NO H1B program for lawyers…and who is defending the program here…. no surprise!

67. #167
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:42 pm, PhredE said:

    Yep. Capitalism at work, people being left free to make choices, to engage in commerce. Freedom.

    Congress is the ultimate authority on matters of international commerce. There is NO unrestricted right to engage in commerce outside the borders of the US. IMHO, it should exercise that authority a little more often.

68. #168
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:42 pm, chapoutier said:

    So, your evidence that H1B workers come over here and happily accept lower wages is a lawsuit involving H1B workers that are suing because they were not paid the higher wages they were promised?

69. #169
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:42 pm, right4life said:

    We have borders at our state lines, too, right? Should Texas companies be restricted by Texas law from trading with a person from Ohio? I mean, a law like that would assure higher prices for WHATEVER could be commanded by Texans.

    beyond stupid…you must be a lawyer…

70. #170
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:43 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:42 pm, chapoutier said:
    So, your evidence that H1B workers come over here and happily accept lower wages is a lawsuit involving H1B workers that are suing because they were not paid the higher wages they were promised?

    having worked with quite a few h1b workers…have you???

71. #171
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:45 pm, right4life said:

    Groups such as the Programmers Guild and IEEE-USA that represent American programmers and engineers argue that it’s far more important to remedy the existing system. They say it’s riddled with abuses that make it possible for firms to hire H-1B workers at substandard salaries and to scrimp on recruiting Americans.

    these people are OBVIOUSLY liars!!!

    link

72. #172
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:45 pm, Jeff2161 said:

    We aren’t even discussing national security implications of foreign citizens working in tech fields. Plus, the abuse of h1b holders is due to the playing-field totally against workers. BTW…Lawyers do control the numbers in their occupation. Limited slots in Law achool…Any time you regulate a field, you remove competition; by increasing the difficulty of entry far beyond what is neccessary.

73. #173
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:46 pm, Ragspierre said:

    We have borders at our state lines, too, right? Should Texas companies be restricted by Texas law from trading with a person from Ohio? I mean, a law like that would assure higher prices for WHATEVER could be commanded by Texans.

    beyond stupid…you must be a lawyer…

    ‘K. If it is such an easily answered question…

    show us your chops and answer it.

74. #174
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:48 pm, Jeff2161 said:

    We have borders at our state lines, too, right? Should Texas companies be restricted by Texas law from trading with a person from Ohio?

    Umm… I think the US constitution has a little something to say on that topic. Something about, regulating interstate commerce , or, something. Maybe, someone could look it up?

75. #175
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:49 pm, right4life said:

    ‘K. If it is such an easily answered question…

    show us your chops and answer it.

    do you think there’s a difference between state borders and national borders???? sigh…

76. #176
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:50 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Lawyers do control the numbers in their occupation. Limited slots in Law achool…Any time you regulate a field, you remove competition; by increasing the difficulty of entry far beyond what is neccessary.

    That is a true statement. It used to be that some of our best lawyers were self-educated. I support CERTIFICATION over LICENSING for that very reason. In the name of controlling quality, various professions limit the market for their services via licensing. You could do the same thing with a certification program, which the bar tests used to be.

77. #177
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:50 pm, chapoutier said:

    Limited slots in Law school…Any time you regulate a field, you remove competition; by increasing the difficulty of entry far beyond what is neccessary.

    There are 200 law schools in the US. if you can’t get into a lower tier toilet like some of them out there, you are probably barely literate.

    A better argument from your perspective would be having to pass the bar exam. That is where existing attorneys actually can have an effect in limitng the number of new applicants to the field.

    Though considering from 1995 to 2006 there was an almost 25% increase in the number of attorneys in the US, history would indicate that lawyers are hardly being very protective of their jobs.

78. #178
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:51 pm, Ragspierre said:

    I think the US constitution has a little something to say on that topic. Something about, regulating interstate commerce , or, something. Maybe, someone could look it up?

    Sure. But why? Do you remember where that provision came from historically?

    And that doesn’t answer my question.

79. #179
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:53 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    …came as a shock to Guardino, who otherwise described the president as “brilliant and respected by so many in the tech sector who are counting on the administration as their ally.”

    …the administration should be helping Silicon Valley maintain its competitive edge, not making it less so.

    They haven’t figured out yet that Obama was a Red-Diaper baby, born and raised as a full-blooded Marxist, who describes his journey as follows:

    bring an Empire to its knees.

    The destruction of American capitalism is Obama’s goal.

    The American executives who supported Obama with their contributions and their votes were fools. Some of them are waking up to who this man really is. Others are still foolishly holding out hope that Obama will actually do something to help, rather than harm, their businesses.

80. #180
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:53 pm, Ragspierre said:

    There is NO unrestricted right to engage in commerce outside the borders of the US. IMHO, it should exercise that authority a little more often.

    OK. Another anti-capitalist. Gotcha.

81. #181
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:53 pm, Jeff2161 said:

    well,a lot of em don’t look past the extra bar dues rollin’ in.

82. #182
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:53 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:53 pm, Ragspierre said:

    another open borders wacko gotcha.

83. #183
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:55 pm, Ragspierre said:

    another open borders wacko gotcha.

    And that is simply a lie.

    But, at this point, I expect nothing better from you.

    I think maybe you have shown us all why you might have trouble with employment.

84. #184
    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:57 pm, PhredE said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:53 pm, Ragspierre said:

    There is NO unrestricted right to engage in commerce outside the borders of the US. IMHO, it should exercise that authority a little more often.

    OK. Another anti-capitalist. Gotcha.

    It’s got nothing to do with being pro/anti-Capitalism at all – it’s Constitutional requirement that defines how our country is to manage it’s own affairs in relation to foreign governments, treaties, etc.

    If you don’t like the Constitution, either change it or find a new country.

85. #185
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:01 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 3:55 pm, Ragspierre said:
    another open borders wacko gotcha.
    And that is simply a lie.

    words, just words.

    its obvious you are for open borders, while denying it…let me guess, you’re a lawyer!!

    you call anyone who disagrees ‘anti-capitalist’ more lies and BS…par for the course…moron.

86. #186
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:01 pm, Ragspierre said:

    If you don’t like the Constitution, either change it or find a new country.

    I don’t think that my rights come from Congress. Consistent with what the Founders said.

    Show me were it says in the Constitution that Congress can rightfully restrict my ability to freely trade with people. We will agree that I cannot trade in strategic things or information. But outside that, what would you contend the Constitution tells Congress I should not be free to trade in?

87. #187
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:04 pm, right4life said:

    Show me were it says in the Constitution that Congress can rightfully restrict my ability to freely trade with people.

    who cares? we all know the constitution means whatever 5 people on the supreme court says it does..

    whats your next BS argument???

88. #188
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:05 pm, Ragspierre said:

    its obvious you are for open borders

    But it is not. It is a lie, and I fully expect you to continue to recite it. Like continuing to call me names of other kinds.

    you call anyone who disagrees ‘anti-capitalist’

    Not at all. I call someone who believes in something other than capitalism an anti-capitalist.

    Like you. You have no respect or appreciation for markets, and would willingly distort them according to your own lights.

    OK. You can advocate that. Just be honest.

89. #189
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:06 pm, Ragspierre said:

    who cares? we all know the constitution means whatever 5 people on the supreme court says it does..

    whats your next BS argument???

    Hmm…run up against another question you can’t answer…

    must be depressing to be you…

90. #190
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:11 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:05 pm, Ragspierre said:
    its obvious you are for open borders
    But it is not. It is a lie, and I fully expect you to continue to recite it. Like continuing to call me names of other kinds.

    your own words prove it…

    Show me were it says in the Constitution that Congress can rightfully restrict my ability to freely trade with people.

    Like you. You have no respect or appreciation for markets, and would willingly distort them according to your own lights.

    yeah having border enforcement is ‘distoring’ the markets…

    beyond stupid.

91. #191
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:12 pm, right4life said:

    Hmm…run up against another question you can’t answer…

    must be depressing to be you…

    yeah its depressing getting so many laughs from reading your posts!!

92. #192
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:13 pm, GladzKravtz said:

    From someone who bought a PowerBook back in 1996 for over 5 grand!…those days may return, eh?

    Anyway,I can’t see BHO distancing himself too far from this ‘money base’.
    My guess is that most of the companies that are BHOs pets will get gov’t contracts to counter any tax. Sort of like the tarp/bailouts, the contracts will be loaded with requirements for who to hire, union involvement etc. I see Google getting a big contract(s).
    In the end, quality of goods ‘produced’ by those companies will diminish.

    I pray that there will be some spirited techies who can beat the system and still come up with new innovations, hopefully for a low price.

93. #193
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:14 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Advocating free trade does not mean that I see no reason to have secure borders. Free trade can be…has historically been…conducted across secure borders.

    To assert that would truly be dishonest. Like you have been. Are you, in fact, that ignorant of history and economics?

94. #194
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:16 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:14 pm, Ragspierre said:
    Advocating free trade does not mean that I see no reason to have secure borders. Free trade can be…has historically been…conducted across secure borders.

    if you knew anything about economics, as you say you do, then its rather OBVIOUS that border restrictions of ANY type, restrict the free flow of goods and services….

95. #195
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:21 pm, Ragspierre said:

    its rather OBVIOUS that border restrictions of ANY type, restrict the free flow of goods and services….

    OK, and I have said that free trade against the strategic interests of the nation is an exception.

    Or did you miss that from having to wipe the froth off your face?

    There are MANY valid reasons to restrict the flow of ILLEGAL immigrants into the US. There are very few…if any…legitimate reasons under capitalism to restrict our right to work where we will or the right of others…who legally come here…to work where they will.

    Or do you think Americans should also be excluded from other nations…???

96. #196
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:23 pm, RabbidSquirrel said:

    We have borders at our state lines, too, right? Should Texas companies be restricted by Texas law from trading with a person from Ohio?

    YES!!!! Frickin yankee carpet baggers!! Come down here taking our women folk, stealing out cattle and salting our fields. Any traitorous barbarian doing business with a yankee commie royalty-lovin loyalist needs to be strung up!

97. #197
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:24 pm, Ragspierre said:

    YES!!!! Frickin yankee carpet baggers!! Come down here taking our women folk, stealing out cattle and salting our fields. Any traitorous barbarian doing business with a yankee commie royalty-lovin loyalist needs to be strung up!

    And they talk funny, too…!!!

98. #198
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:30 pm, chapoutier said:

    a yankee commie royalty-lovin loyalist

    Come down here taking our women folk

    What does this say about the intelligence of your women folk?

99. #199
    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:30 pm, right4life said:

    On May 5th, 2009 at 4:21 pm, Ragspierre said:
    its rather OBVIOUS that border restrictions of ANY type, restrict the free flow of goods and services….
    OK, and I have said that free trade against the strategic interests of the nation is an exception.

    oh please, what are ‘strategic’ interests of the nation?

    There are MANY valid reasons to restrict the flow of ILLEGAL immigrants into the US. There are very few…if any…legitimate reasons under capitalism to restrict our right to work where we will or the right of others…who legally come here…to work where they will.

    so you’re for open borders.

    and all your ‘equivocating’ is BS.

    no other nation on God’s earth lets people just come and go to work as they please, get on welfare, except for western socialist welfare states…

100. #200
     On May 5th, 2009 at 4:31 pm, right4life said:

     Or do you think Americans should also be excluded from other nations…???

     why don’t you try to go to China and get a job? just walk right in, and ask for welfare….see what happens…